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How To Touch On A First Date
Human touch releases endorphins and is a powerful method to induce a sense of relaxation. The Escalation Ladder helped me a lot when I was first getting started and had no idea what to do, but after I did it a few times and got comfortable with it, I realized it was way too complicated (as are a lot of seduction techniques), way too much to remember, and overkill in terms of what was needed to create attraction with a woman right across from you.
-By Caleb Jones
Oh, it induces a little more than just relaxation...
One of the big game-changers in my game when I was learning and practicing all of this stuff was learning and later memorizing the DiCarlo Escalation Ladder. I knew kino (touching) was important to getting laid, but I didn't know exactly how to do it or when. It also helped me gain a little more confidence when actually getting to the point of removing clothing, though honestly that's never been one of my sticking points. Rather it was initial kino on the first date (or first meet) that confused me a little.
I take nothing away from DiCarlo and his very cool technique, but I consider it something you implement only as a complete beginner. Like many seduction techniques, once you get the hang of it you really don't need it any more. Here's a general summary of what I do on a first date in terms of touching her. You need to put this context of how I perform my lays. For me, a "first date" is a quick 45-60 minute meetup at a fancy bar or fancy coffee shop (usually a bar). It rarely costs me more than $15 and often costs me zero. I do not attempt sex or even kissing on my first dates unless it's an unusual exception. However, I kino A LOT.
For those of you who don't already know, my objectives on a first date are, in no particular order:
1. Establish comfort, by being relaxed and having a relaxing conversation, demonstrating my relaxed "no big deal" frame and non-creepiness (that last one is extra-important for the much younger women).
2. Establish attraction, using confidence, dressing nice, sex talk and kino.
3. Short-circuit women's "But I don't know you!" / "But it's only the first date!" ASD bullshit by avoiding any actual sexual escalation on the first date but fucking them very quickly on the second date.
Despite the fact I almost never go for the immediate first date lay ONS/SNL/SDL, this system works extremely well. The vast majority of my lays these days on are the second date with a grand total of only three hours of face time, meet-to-lay, including both dates. (I'll post some specific recent examples on this blog shortly.)
So within that framework, here's a good picture of how I usually kino on a first date.
1. I do not touch when I first meet her. I just give her a big smile and say hi and say something casual or funny. Then we just sit down and start talking like we're already old friends. A lot of guys immediately hug women on a first date like this. If you haven't already met her in real life, not only do I think that's fake, I think it actually makes a lot of women more nervous, not less. (By the way, never shake a woman's hand on a date, even if she offers. No no no.)
2. Talk for a while about her life. Still no kino yet.
3. Move the conversation to relationship and sex talk.
4. Start touching her hands and arms. If there is a table between us and they're not in easy reach, I'll literally say "Give me your hand for a minute." They always comply at this point and I touch. After touching her for a bit I'll look down at her arm and say something like "hm". That often starts yet another topic about touching or sex.
5. Often I will say "flex your leg," and when she does so I will touch her thigh. Then I'll make a comment about how muscular her leg is or isn't. Sometimes it's an honest statement, sometimes it's a sarcastic one. Depends on the situation. This move is espeically easy if she's been talking about how she goes to the gym or has just lost some weight or whatever.
6. I will start touching her hair. Unlike the other touching, I will usually not say anything about how I'm touching her hair while I'm doing it. I'll just touch her hair while we're talking. Even if she suddenly stops talking when I do this, I'll just prompt her to continue and keep touching. Important: most guys don't know this, but women's hair is a HUGE erogenous zone. It really, really turns women on when their hair is touched in a sexual manner. Try it some time and you'll see what I mean. If for some reason the gal is still very nervous or seems unresponsive, I will skip the hair touching.
7. If things are going well between us, I will caress her face. Just for a few seconds, then pull away. Usually more than once but never more than two or three times. Again, I will not say "I'm going to touch your face now." I just do it. It it feels gooooood (for both of us).
8. When we wrap up the date and say our goodbyes, then I will give her a big hug. It's not one of those friendly, platonic, bullshit "I just met you" hugs. It's a real hug that feels good and tight for both of us. I will NOT kiss her.
Kissing is a big topic but suffice it to say in my extensive testing, kissing a chick on a first date where sex does not occur actually reduces the odds of you ever having sex with her. So unless you're a one-night-stand or first-date-lay kinda guy, don't kiss on a first date, but do everything else (sex talk, kino, make her laugh a lot, etc).
Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, and I have had sex with women I did kiss on the first date when the sexual fires between us were just unbearable, but those were the unusual exceptions. 99% of the time, I do not kiss on a first date, and I get laid A LOT. At least 80% of the time, if I kiss on the first date, I lose the lay. So don't kiss, give her a big hug, and get the hell outta there. Worry about kissing on the second date when you going to escalate all the way to sex.
Remember this is just for the first date/first meet. The second date is a completely different story. That's when you not only kiss, but move all the way to sex, and do so as quickly as possible. Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.
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Dennis 2011-06-27 08:01:48
On the first meet "assume familiarity" this was one of Paul Janke first rules. For me this meant when you first meet a woman give her a big smile and give her a hug. This shows her you are not afraid to touch her and that you are sexual. Act like you've been friends for years. Smile a lot and maintain eye contact. Thanks for your kino tips. I'll have to use all of them next time. Though when you are setting across the table in a coffee house it's a little hard to touch her hair. BTW my stats are similar to yours. Out of 20 emails I get a 20% return. Out of 10 first meets, one will f--k right away (day2 or 3 in my age group...I've only had one SDL in this age group). I'm 62 and my targets are in the 45-58 range. I'm in great shape, buff, muscular, 6 pack etc. However, the amount of women in the 45-58 group that are f--kable is a small percentage compared to the 20-40 age group. There are just too many, and I mean TOO MANY, fat, wrinkly and ugly women. Beyond 60y/o the percentage is even less, even infinitesimal. You young guys rate women on a 1-10 scale. At my age, the scale for my targets are f--kable or not. F--kable means nice face, slim or athletic body and good tits. Most of you guys reading this might be saying Ehwww, but that's the way it is when you get my age. Hey I really am a "mother f--ker" ! However the seduction methods are mostly the same as with younger women.
Blackdragon 2011-06-27 09:51:52
If you're 62 that's incredible. How old is the youngest woman you've been with recently? 45? When I get some time I'll have to email you with a few questions. Yes the table thing is a problem, but even with hair I've told women to "lean forward" so I can touch. Awkward, but it works. All the more reason to go out of your way to choose a first date venue where you sit side-by-side instead of across from each other with a table.
Dennis 2011-06-28 15:25:13
Hey BD. The youngest was 49. She still had her period and was a SDL now a FB. Last time I was with her she wanted to go to dinner first so I haven't called her in a while. I find that women in the 40 to 47 age range think I'm to old for them even though they gladly f--k some fat 50 y/o guy with health problems...go figure. Unfortunately I'm making things easier for the next guy when I stop all contact with the women if she doesn't get sexual(touching tits and pussy) on day2. Most of the women I f--k are in the 50-58 range. They are definitely looking for their last provider. In addition most went through menopause which has decreased their sex drives and of course their looks. The women who were still getting their periods <52y/o were more sexual. I'm mostly a serial monogamist. After 3 or 4 months I can't stand the women anymore and move on to the next. It only takes me 2-3weeks to find a new f--k. My shortest time was 10 days from Match posting to f--k. I also encountered a weird phenonomon. After menopause and if a women has not had any children and is not on HRT(hormone replacement therapy) she will get vaginal atrophy. Which means the lining of her vaginal canal get very thin and the entrance gets smaller...which mean she can no longer f--k. I now avoid women who haven't had children and are not on HRT..nothing but oral sex gets boring.
Ken 2011-06-28 16:25:28
"(By the way, never shake a woman’s hand on a date, even if she offers. No no no.)" Even if she offers??? How do you get out of that without coming across rude?? "If there is a table between us and they’re not in easy reach, I’ll literally say “Give me your hand for a minute.” They always comply at this point and I touch." With no context? Or in the context of your "arm test" routine. I think it would be creepy/weird with no context.
Blackdragon 2011-06-29 12:14:29
Dennis - Your youngest lay is my oldest lay (age 49). I have never been with a postmenopausal woman but that day is coming. There is one woman I'm working on in my social circle who is 47, going through menopause, and she goes through massive "horny waves". One week she's ready to explode and another week she doesn't want anyone to touch her. (I'm so glad I was born a man.) Your story is very interesting. My guess was that women in their 40's might be a little difficult for you but women in their 50's would be extremely easy. Your experiences seem to mesh with mine, regarding older women who have not hit menopause yet as being really horny. Those forty and fiftysomethings can be massively horny, without a doubt. As well as your experiences with women in their 50's looking for the "last provider". That's exactly what I see as well.
Blackdragon 2011-06-29 12:20:36
Ken - Of course there's always context. Consider this post in conjunction with my sex talk post from a few weeks ago. I ask for their arm while (or right after) talking about something relationship, sexual, or even just physical related (like exercise or whatever). When a woman actually sticks out her hand on a first date and wants to shake my hand, I have done things like 1) grasp her arm and shake that instead with a goofy smile on my face, 2) tickle her hand, 3) kiss her hand, 4) give her a hug instead. Yes, some of those things are violations of my other rules, but like in the marines, sometimes you need to "improvise, overcome, and adapt". I will do my best to not shake that hand. I will not enter into her "just friends" frame or "job interview" frame and "meeting a stranger" frame, which is what shaking hands means.
Dan 2011-07-01 12:08:01
How do you deal with doing kino when a chick is showing negative body language? Do you just plough on and keep the kino up or do you slow down and hold off until she warms to you? I`m starting to realise the importance of kino after this post, but on Wednesday I had a date, lasted 1h 15m. Didn`t really do much in the kino side of things as her legs were crossed and facing away from me, it felt like pushing the kino would be odd. We had some good rapport though, and the upper half of her body was showing better body language. How would you have dealt with such a situation? I think I`ve lost this chick (sent follow up text, no response) and I think one of the contributing factors was a lack of kino.
Blackdragon 2011-07-01 13:24:51
You have to identify true negative body language. If a woman has her legs crossed and not facing you but she's smiling and happy and engaging the conversation in a non-fake way, then I wouldn't consider that negative body language and I would proceed as normal. However if she's completely closed in her body language as well as not asking any questions, not contributing to the conversation, not laughing unless it's fake, then I would establish more comfort before kinoing, or just write her off and end the date ASAP and move on to the next woman.
Dennis 2011-07-03 11:38:40
Ken - Most of the women I meet stick out there hand to shake. I just hold there hand and draw them in for a hug and wrap my free hand around them. Their hand is against my stomach at that point. No woman that I've met has objected. If a woman did object I would next her, cuz she is not going to f--k right away.
Anders 2013-08-28 19:31:22
Hi. do you have any quick tips for second date?
Blackdragon 2013-08-28 19:40:48
Second date: Meet at your place. Talk and relax. Escalate to sex. If she balks at meeting at your place, meet at a very cool bar very close to your home. Escalate, transition to your place, get to sex.
Anders 2013-08-28 21:57:14
wow! superfast answer:D thank you:) kinda what i had in mind:) love your blog btw, and the first date thing is golden. I was on a date last week. first date in a few years and i was extremely nervous. My face was all red and i felt lost. During the date, i tried to kino with a kiss as the grand prize, but it felt like a burden on me. So i tried to escalate the kino, but it went nowhere. (because i stressed myself up by thinking about the kiss.) 5 hours later i had a headache and wished the girl would shut up. it ended with an awkward hug. Your first date routine is like a thousand pounds taken off my shoulders. I get all the phonenumbers from girls i game direct at daygame and its like in and out in a few mins. Then some texting and facebook before we meet up. So i dont really know anything aboutthe girl when i meet her. and i cant spend another 5 hours of my time on something im not even certain about. me and some of my friends are all testing out this routine and so far we all love it! cheers!
Mickey Singh 2016-10-16 15:33:57
please reply asap blackdragon <3 is it ok if i makeout on 2nd date and sex on 3rd? like nothing besides touching on 1st .. does that rule apply to 2>3 like u said it applies to 1>2
Tom 2016-11-09 06:20:47
Hi BlackDragon, I ran into your site for the first time. Cool stuff! Let me share my experience with kissing on the first date. I am about 40 years old and so are also women I meet, usually via online dating. I also came to conclusion that kissing is a problem when it comes to getting a second date.... Actually, I think that a little good-night kiss is ok... but, um well, I will better try just the hug. On the first date, I do some kino, some touching, caressing hand etc... ok. And then I can just kiss her. You know, kissing is actually easy. When the woman is attracted to you, you build some connection, some magic of the moment and you two are alone, she will usually go for it and will even initiate french-kissing! It feels perfectly natural for both of you. However, you usually get no second date, just some neutral texts and then radio silence. I didn't know that women can get ASD after "just kissing", but it really seems so. BlackDragon, could you give me an insight into female mind? What does she think? She was with an attractive man, knew him for an hour and then kissed him passionately, it just happened, she loved it... She is attracted to you, so why does she not want a second date? Is it that she thinks you're a player? Thank you, Tom
Blackdragon 2016-11-09 12:17:56
What does she think?https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/
daniel 2017-02-13 20:07:30
Wow this post is kind of blowing my mind. I thought I was doing this correctly but now I think not. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you are just straight out touching her, sensually, for extended periods of time, out of the blue without any excuse, is that right? You ask for her hand and then just hold it and touch it and what, make eye contact throughout and have a "moment" or keep talking and seemingly touch them in that casual "long time lovers" way or...? I've always done the "incidental" thing, placing a hand on her when we both laugh, or emphasis in the conversation, that kind of thing, then slowly start to linger or stroke here and there as we go on, but again, only on the "excuses" that the conversation provides, then finally I go to the hair, but again with some excuse, and I don't linger much. Honestly I've always thought this is what kino is described as most places, and I've also never gotten the impression that it was really capable of turning on a woman as so many describe. I figured it was more about just getting her accustomed to being touched by you, plus, setting you apart from other guys who are too afraid. My end results are exremely good, I couldn't really ask for better stats I don't think, but nonetheless, if I'm understanding you correctly and this is really possible, I anticipate it taking things up a level for me!
Blackdragon 2017-02-13 22:22:53
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds to me like you are just straight out touching her, sensually, for extended periods of time, out of the blue without any excuse, is that right?Remove the "extended periods of time" part, and the answer is yes.
You ask for her hand and then just hold it and touch it and what, make eye contact throughout and have a “moment” or keep talking and seemingly touch them in that casual “long time lovers” way or…?Just touch it for a few seconds and then let it go, and continue the conversation. Push/pull.
I’ve always done the “incidental” thingIncidental is better than no touching at all, but I've always found that to be a little weak/beta. I just touch.
Chuckski 2017-09-20 21:35:38
>> All the more reason to go out of your way to choose a first date venue where you sit side-by-side instead of across from each other with a table. New to the forums here but I've instinctively felt that side-by-side is perfect rather than being across the interview table. Thanks for the confirmation. I'm 54 and recently found a lot of mid-20's are attracted to me. Who knew? Appreciate the kino tips.