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Overcoming “You’re Too Old For Me”
Today I'll cover the single biggest problem us older guys get when approaching VYW, either online or in real life, and that's the "you're too old for me" objection. This is a big topic and I can't cover it adequately in one little blog post. I do cover everything about older guys dating younger women right here. In this post, I'm just going to overview a point or two.
-By Caleb Jones
Girl: Dude your a little old to be emailing me. Im 19
Me: No worries. I'm not worried about it if you're not.
Girl: Its just weird a guy your age emailing someone my age
Girl (in a 2nd separate message): Your picture with the suit is kinda cute though
Exactly eight days later we were having sex. I'm 39. She's now one of my regular FBs.
Did she really think I was too old for her?
Now if you think it's because I'm really good-looking, think again. Even though I've lost some weight lately I'm still a good 40 pounds overweight at the moment. Also realize I had sent out about 120 openers to women her age in order to get her response, as well as a small handful of responses from other VYW (Very Young Women, women age 18 to 23), most of which went nowhere. (I'll post about my recent online dating stats soon.)
As I've talked about many times before, VYW fall into three categories. Type 1, which are gals disgusted at the thought of having sex with an older guy, Type 2, which are gals who are wildly attracted to much older men (provided they don't act like creepers), and Type 3, gals who really don't care about age and don't care either way.
As an older man, you completely ignore Type 1s. Trying to fuck a Type 1 VYW as an older guy is a complete waste of your time. It's not going to happen.
Type 2s are going to respond favorably to you, but cautiously. As long as you're confident, gentle, and not creepy, you can lay these women. I do all the time and have for many years now.
Type 3s are layable, but more difficult. They may not mind the fact you're 20 years older, but that reality is still usually out of their comfort zone and they understand that dating a guy their own age will be easier. If you're at least 10 years older than they are, Type 3s are workable, but they really require you to be on your game.
The goal then is to identify which category a younger woman is in right up front, as fast as possible. Only then can her objections be placed into context. There are many ways to do this, but one way is by observing if her initial reaction to you is negative, reluctant, or positive.
Clearly Negative Reaction = Type 1
If her initial reaction to you is hostile or nice but clearly negative, she's a Type 1. Examples would be:
"You seem like a nice guy but I would rather date someone my own age. Good luck in your search."
"Dude WTF are you thinking??? You're 20 years older than me! Gross!"
In both the above cases, she's clearly telling you she's a Type 1. That means you immediately delete her out of your brain forever and move on to other women.
Reluctant Reaction = Type 3
If her response is reluctant, she's (likely) a type 3. She's is interested in you, but sees the age difference and knows that's something out of her normal experience. So she brings it up because it's the easiest objection she can give you. The gal I had sex with above was a textbook Type 3. Examples usually look like this:
"Um...why would you be emaling a girl as young as me?"
"Aren't you a little old for me?"
"Wow you're almost as old as my dad."
"You're like 20 years older than me lol but I guess that's okay."
Notice in none of these examples is she telling you stop talking to her, nor is she doing an "Ew! Gross!" type thing. She's not negative, she's just reluctant, and reluctant we can work with. In your normal dating experience with women your own age you come across reluctant women all the time. Right? It's just part of the program and not a big deal.
1. Don't get defensive.
2. Don't start doing the cheesy older man stuff, like "Hey I'm aged like fine wine baby" or "Us older guys know how to treat a lady" or whatever.
3. Make it clear to her that you don't think it's any big deal.
4. Display massive outcome independence (even if you have to fake it).
Positive Reaction = Type 2
If her response is positive, even cautiously positive, she's a Type 2. I don't need to give you specific examples because you know what positive looks like. If she engages you in conversation even though she clearly knows you're way older than her, it's game on.
In my online dating profile it clearly shows my age, so if a 18 or 19 year-old gal responds to my opener and is very positive, I know damn well she's seen my age and doesn't care (or is excited!). That means she's a Type 2 and all I need to do now is navigate all the other obstacles I would with any other interested woman online (irrationality, disorganization, other men she might be fucking, etc).
Of course, whenever we generalize about human behavior there will always be exceptions to these rules. Sometimes you'll get a full-on positive response from a Type 1 or Type 3, but that's very rare. As always, I talk about what happens with most people, the majority of the time.
Notice in my example above how I didn't freak out, didn't try to prove myself, and didn't get defensive or pissed off. I just made it clear I thought it was no big deal. Because guess what? IT ISN'T. As long as we're talking about legal adults age 18 or over, this "age difference" stuff is just a bunch of bullshit societal programming (check the Glossary for that one) that doesn't mean anything.
Stupidly, American culture is one of the most paranoid cultures about this issue...in most other cultures huge age differences between a man and woman are not only acceptable, but desirable for both genders. (Hell, I've even read several studies that show when men marry much younger women, divorce rates tend to be lower and marriages tend to be happier.)
So first, YOU need to calm down about this and stop treating it like some big deal or some huge impossible task. If you're 45 years old and want to fuck an 18 year-old, god bless you and GO FOR IT. (Make sure to check her ID please.) Secondly, you need to convey to her that you aren't concerned about the age difference thing, and demonstrate that it really isn't any big deal. Because it's not.
I can tell you for a fact that once you're in a relationship with a woman, dating women age 18 or 21 is not that big a difference from dating a women who are 28 or 29. Yes, there are certainly differences between different age groups, but the overall experience once you're in the relationship is largely the same. Same good stuff (sex, fun, feminine energy, etc) same bad stuff (demands, drama, Disney, etc, most of which can be eliminated if you just keep the relationship open).
Once you get that mindset embedded, type those Type 3s (and Type 2s) become much easier.
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Jed 2011-11-27 14:33:02
Hey blackdragon, love your blog and the posts on mASF. I am 28 and have regularly been banging chicks in my age range I've met on the internet but they keep pressuring for commitment and that's when I disappear like a thief in the night. Im seriously considering buying your eBook because I want to start trying for younger girls (18-23). I am a fulltime graduate student going to school under the GI bill so I have limited funds. Do you provide discounts for your ebooks for us unemployed veterans who have an insatiable need for younger vagina?
Blackdragon 2011-11-28 15:29:35
I love you dude, but I don't give discounts to anyone who asks. If I did, I'd have to give discounts to everyone. My shopping cart software does kick in about four different discounts if you purchase multiple ebooks though.
Jed 2011-11-28 19:57:11
That's cool blackdragon. I think I'm gonna give plasma the next few weeks and save up for your ebook. Keep up the good work, your advice has changed my life for the better. I'm done with the older women and I have my first meetup with a 20 year old VYW on wednesday. Its obvious from her profile shes just looking to get banged out. I think i'm gonna like this age group better. Thank you for changing my life.
Bohemian 2011-12-05 04:40:39
[i]" As long as we’re talking about legal adults age 18 or over..."[/i] Hi! I realize you're being practical and ensuring men don't get in trouble with "the authorities" (the local Taliban), but I can't help but pointing out this proviso too is societal programming. The segregation by age such as you're describing is IMO one of the dumbest things about American culture. (I think feminism had a big role in bringing it about). And part of this rubric, of course, is (the excessively conservative) age of majority of 18. In European culture, as one example, I understand it's not unusual for mothers to actively encourage their 15 yr old daughters to date men significantly older than the daughters. I realize you were most likely aware of this already; I'm just pointing it out as an illustration as to why the proviso in question is bullshit cultural programming. Like I said, I realize you want men to be free from legal harassment, but when someone as enlightened and free of societal nonsense as you even pays lip service to this brainwashing, then we're in really big trouble and IMO needs to be pointed out. Jed: You're only 28. I would assume (BD can correct me) a significantly higher percentage of the young chicks don't consider you out of their age range yet. Just wait til you're 40 😀 And that might make a great online opener: "would you consider fucking an unemployed veteran grad student of limited funds with an insatiable need for younger vagina" 😀 Why not hit the mall dude, you're only 28 😀
Blackdragon 2011-12-05 12:48:43
Societal programming is one thing. The law is another. I know a guy who has to wear an ankle bracelet and has "sex offender" on his record forever because he had consensual sex with a 17 year-old girl when he was 23. Her parents didn't like him, so they made one phone call, and now his life is fucked. You don't want to be that guy. Income tax is also societal programming, and I think it's wrong and evil in every way. (All taxes should be sales taxes, poll taxes, and tariffs, not income or property taxes.) But believe me, I pay my income taxes. I don't want to go to jail, and I don't want you to go to jail either. My message to all men is to avoid societal programming, but do so within the law.
Soy 2011-12-09 12:05:21
[quote] In European culture, as one example, I understand it’s not unusual for mothers to actively encourage their 15 yr old daughters to date men significantly older than the daughters.[/qoute] This isn't true in a lot of places in europe, just so you know :D. At least northern EU.
Buzz 2014-10-13 15:16:11
I just say age is just a number unless you are under 18. Got a 19 year old at 63!
John 2015-01-20 07:06:36
I'm 59, and I have been seeing a girl of 26 one on one, several times now (about 6 or 7 times) [actually she had been the hardest to crack because to date. [My track record is that I have been to 3rd base on a first date with 50% of girls I've dated]. That does not make me confident, I put it down to luck. I've done my best to accommodate her and not come across as creepy. She is is a lovely girl with a great personality. I would like to "engineer" the next stage without sabotaging the relationship. This girl is really special, and I don't want to mess it up. Any advice is welcome. I have been cautious in not invading personal space. She has already talked to me about someone else who invaded her personal space without permission, who is in his late 40's early 50's. To date she has been comfortable with me and I don't want to spoil that. She has also stated that currently in her life, relationships are on hold. Thanks.
Blackdragon 2015-01-22 18:19:32
This girl is really special, and I don’t want to mess it up.Oneitis. You've already messed it up by having that attitude. If you "really don't want to mess it up," you've already lost. Also, if you've waited 6 or 7 dates and not had sex yet, you messed that up as well. You waited way, way too long. I would sexually escalate the very next time you see her, and if she balks, then nicely next her and find another woman who is more sexually open and more sexually compatible with you.
art 2015-02-12 22:06:42
45 years old? 🙂 Let me tell you guys, I am not out to be a player or score. I actually do want a permanent relationship. So that's where my head is most of the time, OK? I am 60 (six-tee). The point I will be making is that I was not looking to score with a VYW and may never again, but the author is right. There are girls out there who are really fixated on doing it with older men. Seriously getting it on - now! One night I'm working very late and the owner's son who is a complete moron uses the place after hours to party with his friends, or on this occasion, try to impress a girl. He shows up around 11 p.m., wasted from drinking with a girl in tow that I've seen there before but not introduced. She's about 22, firm athletic body, so-so face but overall guys check her out and comment later. I'll speed this up a bit - she hangs in the office with me at the computer and soon she sits really really close but I'm not making anything out of it, figuring we're sharing a computer screen. But then in another part of the shop the drunk spaz boy passes out. When he comes to, he calls his mom for a ride home. Girl hangs back with me because I said I'll drive her home while mom takes the spaz. All good. She says she couldn't wait for him to leave and he's a loser. Now she's sitting on my lap and she knows she's making me nervous, but fuck is she firm and warm. I won't bullshit you, I had a hard time getting or staying hard from the nerves cause trust me I really want to nail her and she was way ahead of me. I'm trying not to disappoint her before I can blow a load. She gave me her txt number and said to call anytime. I'm older than her dad. We know people in common. I've never shared this in over a year but this is the big internet, so it's kind of fun to finally tell someone. Otherwise, this ain't getting out to anybody. So they are out there. It can happen. I wasn't playing game on her. I was being myself and polite and quiet - which is the real me. And let's face it. That just made her want to get me worked up even more. A 20 something hits on a guy my age for sex, you want to be 100& sure for the record that it was her idea.
Blaise 2015-04-26 11:11:46
Holy crap, this blog is totally sick (and I mean mentally sick not awesome sick). Have you ever considered the mental damage you cause in these VYW who don't even know or realize what they really want? Sure, trying heroin seems like fun, but is it really good for you? In the long term these VYW will almost all regret to have had casual sex with older guys (or casual sex at all), only do they not know yet because their brain doesn't tell them. And by acting like it's okay to fuck younger gals older guys participate in the process of making feel these young women are only worth because of their hot boddies. Bottom line, this is all morally wrong, even though there's no lead on. There's an invisible component to all this and it's how the human brain will deal with these experiences 10-20 years from now. But of course, which guy would care about that when most of their behavior is dictated by their dick...?
Blackdragon 2015-04-26 11:41:08
In the long term these VYW will almost all regret to have had casual sex with older guys (or casual sex at all), only do they not know yet because their brain doesn’t tell them.Incorrect. I don't date women under the age of about 23 these days, but I certainly have dated women younger than that while in my 30s. These women are much older now, and almost all of these women I'm still friends with to this day, years later. Not one of them, and I'm serious when I say this, not one them "regrets" having sex with me back when they were younger. If anything they look back with a smile and fondness. I think what you meant to say was "younger women will regret casual sex with older men who lied to them and manipulated them." That I agree with. If you've read more on this blog beyond one or two articles, you'd know I always strongly advise men to be 100% honest with women and treat them well. Some examples: https://blackdragonblog.com/2013/06/07/love-women/ https://blackdragonblog.com/2013/07/21/women-are-not-evil/
Tin Man 2016-02-08 15:45:56
I just got the following, after sending her an opening message: HER: I'm sorry you are way out of my age range. Lol I'm only 19 ME: No worries. 🙂 I'm not worried about it if your not. HER: Okay. Lol My age (47) it posted in my profile. There is only one picture (which I know is not the proper number, but it is a good one - me in a suit coat, very professional). I know her age, and I didn't need to re-check - I knew it when I sent the opener. I actually have gotten messages back from 2 others after my opener blast (about 35). Her first response was within a couple hours. My response was the next day - her response was later in the evening, same day as my response. So, this is all happening in about a 24 hour period. Now, I'm sitting on my response back - pretty much happening in real time here - just because I don't want to look like "OH BOY, I just got a fish on the hook!!". Like I tell my kids when we are out - act like you've been here before - meaning, quit acting like an idiot, be civil, be polite and settle down. Doesn't matter if this is the first time or the 100th, act like you've been there before. Thanks BD for the advice. I does work.
Joe 2016-04-03 21:00:27
Mine is a twisted kind of story but not uncommon I guess. I'm 56 and she's 24. We talk almost everyday via text messages. Haven't talked for a couple of years until about 5 weeks ago. Almost like we never stopped talking, we picked up where we left off. She's coming out of a bad relationship right now of verbal abuse and alcohol. Moving into her own place. The only hangup that she seems to have (she didn't mention age as she's dated older men already) is that I have daughters that are close to her age within 5 years and it makes her "uncomfortable" as far as what they would think of her dating their dad. I said they are not judgmental by any means and it's our life if we are happy together making it a moot point. I really would like to pursue this as it slipped away from me once and may not get a chance to again. How or what should I do to make her feel comfortable and not worry what they think? Or worry about anything else for that matter.
Zumi 2016-09-09 18:15:30
I'm 27 and scored a 19 y/o's number. Set a date, but she went silent until she finally answers, saying she's uncomfortable with the age difference. I'm still wondering why she gave me her number lol. I mentioned my own reservations and left it there. Is this clearly a Type1? If not, should I try to salvage this? Is that possible?
Blackdragon 2016-09-10 10:49:11
Just ask her one more time, then hard next if she says no. And please avoid asking "there's this one girl" questions here.
Zumi 2016-09-10 13:03:04
james 2017-01-30 11:45:26
Holy crap, this blog is totally sick (and I mean mentally sick not awesome sick). Have you ever considered the mental damage you cause in these VYW who don’t even know or realize what they really want?Didn't take long for the feminist nazis to come out and tell us what dirty old men we are for taking advantage of some young innocent girl. Let me tell you @Blaze, your either way behind the times, or else you are indeed just one of those older women that feel jilted because men your age would rather date some attractive and shapely younger girl that created less drama for us. I'm 50, and would never date any woman under 25 that did not show serious interest in me. I have a 20 year old GF I see regularly now, and she came after me first. She was 19 when I met her and she was very sexually experienced already. She says she has been sexually active since she was 15, so that's plenty of time to know if she likes sex and how she feels about it, so no, I did not corrupt her or steal her innocence in any way, I can assure you. Young women today seem to be very sexually active by the time they are in HS, and by college many have multiple sex partners, regardless of what they tell you. My 20 YO friend has a regular college bf too, and she sleeps with him and I know about him, although he does not know about me. She goes to her college events with him, and many times comes and gets in bed with me afterwards rather than going home with him. Why you ask? Because she says I'm more her type and she feels safer and more respected when with me and she says the sex and chemistry is better too! So I would venture to say her relationship with me will teach her and mold her in a more positive way than her college peer she dates. She says he doesn't respect her like I do and that she is just not as content with him as with me. I've told her that I see other women, and while she doesn't always like it, she respects it and understands and of course she does it too. I have some women my age and a few in their 30s that I date too, but very few women my age take care of themselves, so yes, the younger ones are usually more attractive and make me happier in most cases, although there are a couple of women I know in their 30s that look great and that I really enjoy spending time with. Unfortunately, they both want me to commit to them and I will never make that mistake again. Honestly, most of the women over 30 are full of drama and problems that I don't seem to encounter with my 20 yo gf. But no, I will never legally commit to another woman unless the laws are changed to better reflect the times. Never will I hand over the kind of power to a woman that marriage gives them. You women want equality, well, change the laws to reflect that and stop stealing men's wealth and our man hood while using out dated laws to help make it easy for you! And don't just assume that because a woman is 19 and the man is 50 that it's a perverted relationship, because that's simply not true!
Drew 2017-09-14 14:40:00
Blackdragon, I love your blog. I just came across it by mistake. I am 59 and have been using the "seeking arrangment" thing. I know there is money involved but its still the same. I have several girls 22 to 24 that I regulaly play with. Over 26 and they are too ruined by society.You do not seem to cover SB/SD in your blog. From my reading and experience the numbers are the same. I would never believe that a hot 22 year old girl would go with me, even for money. But I used some of the techniques that you have here and damned if you are not spot on. I dont usually wear suits but after reading your Blog I'm getting them out off the closet.
Ashida 2018-02-23 23:25:26
I seem to be having issues with this and it's annoying. One yesterday for example, not as a 'there's this one girl' thing.. but just a recent example. 18yo (i'm 33), talked for a few hours on pof.. lots of smiley faces and such. Joking i'd kick her butt in minigolf and she was sending smiley faces and telling me i'd get a hole in 20. Then i'm like "lets goto the beach and play minigolf tomorrow" and she said "Um you do realize you're alot older than me" (she kept talking and flirting after looking at my profile though). And said "Can I bring a friend?" I said "That doesn't worry me. But no on the friend, I want to get to know you not your friend". And nothing.. now I see she's changed her settings so only guys 18-20 can message her. Had similar a few times, seems no matter how I respond at the point of asking them out they go strange. Last night I had the thought "do I really have to use the fake bs pua stuff like, oh yuo're probably inmatture but i'll give you a chance" or some stock line. :Z
Anonymous Guest 2018-05-21 00:08:47
you can date people younger to you,but not always have sex or marry with them as you're older
Ashida 2018-05-21 17:20:46
[quote]you can date people younger to you,but not always have sex or marry with them as you’re older[/quote] What the hell is thie bullshit?
David Arbelaez 2018-09-19 21:15:06
Women will shit test you by saying you’re too old and trying to shame you but then suddenly you’re in bed with them. I rarely pay attention to what women say. I only watch their behavior.