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The Three Types of Men
-By Caleb Jones
I get a lot of questions regarding the different types of guys (Alpha, Needy Alpha, etc). I have a glossary and I know that helps, but enough of you have either asked about it, or have disagreed with me primarily because you didn't understand the definitions.
In this post I'll tackle the three types of men. In a near future post I'll talk about the three types of women.
I've talked about all three of these male types quite a bit, but here's exactly how they work and how they differ from each other.
Alpha - An Alpha is a man who is confident and outcome independent. He is strong, tough, confident, masculine, and a happy guy. He desires no control over others in his life...he's way too busy and motivated with his own stuff to concern himself with that. The woman (or women) in his life are welcome to do pretty much whatever they like...other than yell at him or give him drama, which would disrupt his happiness. He is almost always happy and upbeat despite his extreme masculine nature.
Women are extremely attracted to Alphas, though they do LSNFTE them often when their desire for monogamy, providership, or ass-kissing grows too strong.
Needy Alpha - The Needy Alpha is the standard (i.e. old) definition of "Alpha Male". He is confident but very outcome dependent. Like an Alpha, he's masculine, tough, very confident, and cool. However due to his strong outcome dependence he is jealous, controlling, domineering, and usually quick to anger. If things are going great, he's a happy guy just like an Alpha. But if the woman in his life doesn't follow his needy program, he's enraged. "How dare she disrespect me!!!" Immediately he starts barking orders, making rules, and getting into fights (verbal or otherwise). This is the guy who forces his wife/GF to take men off her phone and Facebook and attempts to control her life with an iron fist.
Women are extremely attracted to Needy Alphas just like they are to Alphas. However over time the Needy Alpha's bullshit starts to wear on a woman, inducing her to give him massive amounts of drama. Unless she's extremely submissive she'll soon leave him (forever, not a LSNFTE) and/or cheat on him.
Beta - Betas are men who are neither confident nor outcome independent. They're the "nice guys". They're submissive, passive, careful, sweet, clingy, needy, high-drama, get oneitis fast and fall in love fast. They range from not successful with women at all to somewhat successful. When they get a girlfriend, they cling to her like there's no tomorrow. Unlike the Alpha or Needy Alpha, the girlfriend or wife controls him. She snaps her fingers, or threatens to leave, and he responds with a "Yes, dear!" or "Okay okay!" or "Please don't leave me! I'll promise I won't do it again!" and then takes out the trash like a good little boy. Betas tend to have high-drama relationships like Needy Alphas.
There are two kinds of betas: the "resigned beta" and the "whiny beta". The "resigned beta" tends to have lower-drama relationships because he happily and willingly accepts a woman's authority over him. He still lives in a prison, and still complains about it occasionally, but he kinda likes his prison. The "whiny beta" also accepts a woman's control, but he hates it, and he whines, complains, fights, and argues with her constantly. He's still a beta though. He still obeys. "I have to! She might leave me! You don't understand!"
Women are not attracted to betas for obvious reasons, with one significant exception I'll get to in a minute. Instead, women "settle" for betas when they realize the Alphas won't follow their orders and/or when dating the Needy Alphas becomes too much work. Women can also "retreat" to betas when the Alphas or Needy Alphas piss them off or hurt their feelings. However even when a woman is with a beta, even if she's married to a beta, she might love him, but she won't be attracted to him. Not like she would an Alpha.
When women do purposely seek out betas is when they're in provider-hunting mode. Then, and only then, does a woman want a beta. She wants a guy who will buy her things, follow her orders, move her into his house, pay her bills, give her babies, and support her family. Until she gets bored in a few years and leaves him (or cheats on him) of course, which is what usually happens when women end up with betas, but that's another topic.
Here's some real-life examples to further distinguish these three types of men from each other.
Woman says, "I think it's time we should see other people."
- Beta response: "Baby I'm sorry. Really. I promise I won't do that again. Give me one more chance. I love you and I don't want you to leave."
- Needy Alpha response: "WTF? Why? Are you seeing someone else? Who the fuck is this guy? Don't be a bitch. We need to discuss this. I'm going to call you in a few minutes and you'd better pick up when I call."
- Alpha response: "Ok. Have fun!"
- Beta response: "Wish I was there with you!"
- Needy Alpha response: "Who the fuck is Dan? Take that picture of you and him off your Facebook right now. I don't want to see pictures of you and other guys like that. Don't ever disrespect me like that ever again. "
- Alpha response: None. He completely ignores the entire thing.
- Beta response: "Okay, okay! I'm sorry! Shit, I said I'm sorry!"
- Needy Alpha response: "I had to work! How the hell do you think I pay my bills? By sitting on my ass all day? My boss needed me so I had to stay! Jesus Christ it was only fifteen minutes! God damn! <drama, drama, drama>"
- Alpha response: "You're so cute. I like how your eyes flutter when you get pissed. Do you want to get pepperoni pizza or Hawaiian?"
- Beta response: "Can I come???"
- Needy Alpha response: "Who's going with you? Are they all girls? Where are you going? The club? Why are you going there? I don't want you going to a club. And your friend Stacy's a bitch. I don't want you hanging out with her either."
- Alpha response: "Cool. Have fun!"
Lastly, the traits I'm discussing here are pretty much all-inclusive. Way too often people say things to me like "Oh, he can't be an Alpha. He's too dumb." Or "He's not a beta. He owns his own business and makes six figures." Or "He's not a Needy Alpha! He's a cool guy." All wrong. Alphas can be stupid, brutish, ugly, or uneducated. Full-on beta males can be financially successful or business owners or wealthy (I work with lots of men like this). Needy Alphas can be very nice, polite and/or charismatic. That doesn't mean they aren't what they are. I'll review it quickly: Alphas are confident and outcome independent, Needy Alphas are confident and not outcome independent, and betas are neither confident nor outcome independent.
So there you go. The three types of dudes. In my (not so) humble opinion, it should be every man's goal to reach Alpha state, or at least get as close to Alpha as possible. It is Alphas who are the most consistently happy of all men. Needy Alphas and betas go through periods of happiness followed by periods of anger, sadness, frustration, or loneliness. It's a very up-and-down, back-and-forth way to live. Not good. (Unless you like that sort of thing.)
In my next post, I'll shall continue to open cans of worms by describing the three types of women. Ohhhhhhh boy...
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Wils 2012-07-26 11:01:09
What about a guy who is not confident BUT is outcome independent?
Blimy 2012-07-26 11:39:04
Mr.Wils; I'm sure BD will tell you this BUT "a guy who is not confident BUT is outcome independent" doesn't truly exist. It takes confidence to truly be outcome independent. You may get a beta who says he doesn't care but that's B.S. His confidence is too fragile and easily shaken to allow him to let go of the things that truly do not matter. I.E. other peoples opinions, rejection, general drama and other bullshit.
Michael Kage 2012-07-26 11:46:22
Yeah, its easy to write about the types of men and even to get a deep understanding of their psychology, but changing into a favorable type, with all the required attributes is very hard, especially if coming from life long betaization. Off topic: you should write about Kristen Stewart cheating on Robert Pattinson with a 41 years old dude ( who's married with two children by the way), the stuff of legends, everything your preaching seems to come true.
Socialkenny 2012-07-26 14:33:55
I think in the needy Alpha category,you could add introvert.Maybe not even in that specific category.Fuck it!You can probably add it in the Beta category since a lot of Betas are introverts.
Jeb Bush Sr. 2012-07-26 18:17:24
Please hurry up with the next post.
Matt T. 2012-07-26 19:46:49
Socialkenny, change "introvert" to "unsocial", and I think you've got it.
Socialkenny 2012-07-26 20:38:19
@Matt-It seems to me that guys feel that being introvert is a good thing(opposed to being social). I really don't make any distinctions between anti-social and introvert.
Blackdragon 2012-07-27 10:02:36
1. Introvert/Extrovert is a completely separate conversation. All three male types can be introverts or extroverts and this has no effect on beta/Needy Alpha/Alpha status. I.E. I'm an Alpha and an introvert, but if you met me you would not suspect I'm an introvert because I'm socially skilled and relaxed. Yet I am still an introvert at my core. I vastly prefer being alone to being with people regardless of how skilled I am with human relations and regardless of any Alpha status. 2. Not confident but outcome independent is not a condition that exists in the real world. At least I've never seen it. Confidence is a requirement for and the source of outcome independence, yet OI is not necessarily required if you're confident, as demonstrated by the Needy Alpha.
Dennis 2012-07-27 10:30:32
I like to call it indifference to outcome rather than outcome independence. For me indifference is a stronger and more meaningful term.
Kevin Velasco 2012-07-27 20:36:24
What's the type of male that transcends all desire to spend time with women so he can further commit to his path/purpose/mission/vision? A Buddhist monk?
Kevin Velasco 2012-07-27 20:37:14
Also, when you say "three types of men" or "three types of women", would you say these apply universally or more so towards Western men and women?
Cat 2012-07-28 08:52:35
What’s the type of male that transcends all desire to spend time with women so he can further commit to his path/purpose/mission/vision? A Buddhist monk? Nah someone gifted & dedicated like Yngwie Malmsteen in his early years up to 25 & me at times Musicians & sportsmen get it later! 🙂 Intense but gifted!
Blackdragon 2012-07-28 10:30:48
What’s the type of male that transcends all desire to spend time with women so he can further commit to his path/purpose/mission/vision?Like the introvert/extrovert discussion, that has nothing to do with the three types. Any of the three could do that at certain points in his life.
Also, when you say “three types of men” or “three types of women”, would you say these apply universally or more so towards Western men and women?Everything I talk about is about the western world in the modern era, unless I specifically say otherwise. So technically we're talking about western folks. That being said I've known and worked with bazillions of eastern (Asian) men and women and the three types I've described seem to fit them perfectly as well.
lovergirl 2012-07-30 18:22:48
I think most of the men I've had in my life would fall under "needy Alpha" types with a few betas scattered in for good measure. Not to say there might not have been some less needy ones out there but then I probably didn't get into real relationships with them either. If you don't seem to care at all it would be hard to have a relationship. :p
Blackdragon 2012-07-31 20:18:30
@M - Absolutely. The type of man you are does indeed correlate to the type of woman you'll do best with. Core purpose of this post and the one before it is to A) help men determine exactly what type they are (and make "corrections" if they wish), and B) the type of women best suited for their type. I LOVE Submissives and I LOVE Independents in sexual relationships. I usually avoid Dominants for obvious reasons (though I enjoy working with them). @Lovergirl - Yep, you're proving exactly what I said about Submissives. Submissive women WILL take the power in the relationship if they have to, but they'll end up hating it. As men become more and more betaed and feminized by society, you'll see more and more submissive women being placed in this situation. It's sad.
DB 2012-08-04 14:04:50
What are your thoughts on moving from one label to another? I grew up a needy beta and married a submissive who turned dominant (for the most part anyway). In the last year I woke up though and realized that neither of these mentalities were making us happy (that and my wife's lack of libido). I've up'd my alpha consistently since the beginning of this year and don't plan to stop. Ya, I'm faking it until I make it basically, but I feel and act less and less needy and more and more outcome independent every day. It actually feels great and I believe I'm going to get to full outcome independent alpha in due time (may take years). Even though my core beta may always be there to try and cloud my judgement I think eventually the alpha will truly take over if I work at it hard enough. Letting go of unrealistic expectations from human beings and becoming outcome independent has been one of the best things I've ever done. I think it can be done, but will require a lot of patience and hard work like anything else that's worth doing.
Blackdragon 2012-08-05 11:23:51
DB you bring up such an important point your comment has motivated me to make a new post about it. Coming soon.
DB 2012-08-06 10:51:17
As I've been thinking about this more over the last day, I actually think it is very possible to move from beta to alpha. The very fact that I started questioning what was going on in my life and realized how my actions were making me (and consequently my wife) unhappy points to some inner alpha. The old beta me wouldn't question anything and was just constantly trying to please his wife and everybody else for some unknown fear. I was always frustrated though because of my outcome dependence and insecurity. I essentially woke up one day to reality. It's like The Matrix. I woke up and now can't 'unknow' what I know know about myself, relationships, and human nature in general. I've been soaking up every bit of information on alpha and game and relationships that I can. It's scary at times because I'm so used to being a comfortable beta, but in the end the confidence and outcome independence is addicting and cyclically builds.
Sorator 2012-08-11 22:32:35
Okay. I'm intrigued. I've archive-binged here before, and said then that I'm definitely not Alpha, but not really beta either. But this post makes me think I'm an odd version of as Alpha a gay man can be, heh. My answers to those scenarios (thought out before reading the three type responses, though they vary depending on the type of relationship): For a relationship that never established monogamy: 1. Have fun! I was doing this already. 2. Ignore it. 3. Do you still want me to show up tonight? Sure it's my fault I'm late, but badgering me will just make me /more/ late. 4. Have fun! For an explicitly monogamous relationship (because I do think they're /workable/, just not /easy/): 1. *raise eyebrow* Why? Assuming there's not idiotic reasoning, okay, sure, sounds fun. *downgrade to friend with benefits* 2. I'd keep it in the back of my head and pay a little more attention, as that's mildly suspicious, but not especially so. Certainly wouldn't comment on it unless I had other stuff to go with it, and even then it'd just be a "I think you're wanting to see other people, so howabout we do?" 3. Do you still want me to show up tonight? Sure it's my fault I'm late, but badgering me will just make me /more/ late. 4. Have fun! Thoughts? Or advice? (After reading the types for women, I might fit best as an Independent, as much as I dislike contributing to the sexuality-gender stereotypes.)
Blackdragon 2012-08-12 11:10:45
Those answers sound good to me! And yes, monogamy is "workable". Many poor systems are. The real issue is wether or not monogamy makes people very happy in the long-term.
tony 2012-10-02 08:03:53
hmmm i think i'm somewhere in between needy alpha and alpha. i'm not jealous, controlling and would answer all the questions in the way an Alpha does (pretty much) BUT i do really like being in a relationship....
maldek 2013-02-01 09:42:54
Great article and nice seeing you do actualy respond to postings Balckdragon. Thats a very rare find. Your 3 types seems spot on to me. Even though I dont feel comfortable with my position as "needy" alpha. The word "needy" alone gives me the creeps but nevertheless you are right. I *DO* expect a certain outcome in business and private live. When people do not perform well or goals are not reached the "iron fist" comes out and I take control. What you label as "alpha" (without the needy part) is more the ZEN approach, while me beeing "needy" because I want to see results would be more "western". If this is the case the "western" style is not always inferior, or did I miss something?
Blackdragon 2013-02-01 12:41:30
Some time around March/April, when I re-brand all my sites including this one, I'm going to re-vamp some of my terminology to make it more consistent and user-friendly. I agree that the term "Needy Alpha" can confusing, even if accurate ("How can an Alpha be needy?"), so I've already come up with a much shorter and consistent term that ties into the Alpha Male book.
john 2013-05-13 03:09:51
Good exposition of the topic based on personal experience of the writer. Still the diagnosis of alpha beta and the independent type if not clear and rightly so. It's a vast topic and personality is can change and also determined by the environment. Nevertheless, this is one of the best explanation of Dom-sub sensuality. Well done writer.
mariaarianna 2013-05-26 05:10:13
Bravo 🙂 I doubt guys could have been classified and explained any better.
Omkar 2013-06-20 10:33:50
Can a person be an alpha with some,needy alpha with others and also beta with some. I mean can one person all the 3 types in him and display depending on the opposite person or is it necessarily one person - one type?
Klatu 2013-07-11 02:18:37
It's very easy to pigeon-hole 3.5 billion people into three nice and tidy categories, isn't it? Let's just forget about the extreme complexity of psychology, brain chemistry, genetics, and environmental stimuli, shall we? Just because it's simple, doesn't make it true.
Blackdragon 2013-07-11 09:59:54
It’s very easy to pigeon-hole 3.5 billion people into three nice and tidy categories, isn’t it? Let’s just forget about the extreme complexity of psychology, brain chemistry, genetics, and environmental stimuli, shall we? Just because it’s simple, doesn’t make it true.Then what is true? Feel free to lay out your own categories, present your facts to back up what you say, and let's have at it. It's true there are a few other small categories of men out there who don't fit neatly into these three groupings. But generally speaking, most of the time, this is what you've got.
R 2013-08-01 11:52:17
When attempting to place myself based on the examples listed, my behavior came out as a 50-50 split between Alpha and Beta. Specifically: 1.)Beta response: “Baby I’m sorry. Really. I promise I won’t do that again. Give me one more chance. I love you and I don’t want you to leave.” Would depend somewhat on the circumstances prior to her saying that (if she was already getting to be a pain in the ass, I'd probably just kick her out), but yeah, most likely this. 2.)Alpha response: None. He completely ignores the entire thing. 3.)Beta response: “Okay, okay! I’m sorry! Shit, I said I’m sorry!” 4.)Alpha response: “Cool. Have fun!” I'm curious as to what you make of this.
Ron Ritzman 2014-06-18 04:47:50
The "needy alpha" term on the surface does sound like an oxymoron because most definitions of "alpha" don't have "needy" as a trait as "needy" is usually viewed as beta behavior. However, I've done some "nice guying" myself and when women have complained to me about their jerk boyfriends, "needy alpha" is usually the picture that they paint. The whole "make her take her male friends off her phone and facebook" thing is quite common and when we beta Disney dudes say "I wouldn't be like that if I was your boyfriend" this is the kind of douchebag that we are thinking about. Since neediness and insecurity are typically beta traits, the terms I have used for such guys, aside from the typical "jerk" and "douchebag" are "dark beta" and "antialpha" as such guys are usually "betas in alpha clothing". Another thing about guys like this is that often their "Mr Hyde" personas don't surface until the relationship is old enough for the woman to be too emotionally invested in the relationship for her to easily bail. When a woman first meets them, alphas and needy alphas look and act virtually the same. The 3 types you describe are similar to Kezia Noble's "good guy", "bad guy", and "nice guy" descriptions in this video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5B790k1vcI
Jonas 2014-12-14 12:00:45
hi BD, great article, very thought provoking and insightful. I have a scenario, where an alpha switches to beta mode, and finally back again, as his circumstances dictate: an alpha guy, happy go lucky, comfortable in his own skin and with his life, forms a relationship with a woman who admires his independence and good nature. Living far apart they don't see each other that often, when they do it's great for a few days then becomes a bit problematic after that, arguments and moods over seemingly nothing. A drunken night and a child is on the way. The alpha increasingly feels a bond with his child, and is now prepared to do what it takes to become a part of the child's life. They marry, child is born, the marital relationship is not a good one, but the guy feels such a bond and need to be with his son that he puts up with a situation he would never have otherwise gotten into. He effectively becomes a beta, putting up with moods, abuse, coldness as the price of being with his child. Another child comes along, the same situation prevails. After well over a decade of living in an increasingly depressing and isolating marriage, the guys comes to the realisation that he can't do this anymore, not even with children involved. It takes another 4 years for his realisation to precipitate him filing for divorce. The day of the divorce is a happy one for him, he feels a huge weight off his shoulders. Sadness that he won't have as much input to his kids lives, but so glad he has his own life back. He soon resumes his alpha personality, happy in himself and his occupation and interests, happy to have people in and out of his life. But now he's much, much wiser to the consequences of his actions and more cautious in his dealings with the opposite sex.
Blackdragon 2014-12-16 14:58:46
Your cycle is very, very common among men. The problem is you allowed yourself to become beta in the first place, using your child as a rationalization. As my book talks about, a man can still be an Alpha and still be a very wonderful, loving, and effective father.
Sarah 2015-03-25 12:34:49
What if a man appears to be Beta (super-nice, sweet, kind, polite, courteous, conformist, non-confrontational) but behaves like an Alpha with women (result independent) Is it because he has a lot of options or he's only pretending to be nice? or he's been cheated on by women so he's learnt how to be detached, confident and like an Alpha-male?
Blackdragon 2015-03-26 11:30:03
Hard to answer without knowing the guy. Likely he's just a more confident beta. There are some guys out there who are more cool, confident betas. They're still betas though.
Sarah 2015-03-27 06:40:23
Yes, probably Beta. But very confident and secure. And make really good dads! I have dated two (probably since i'm in my hunter-gatherer mode being in my early 30's) and my second ex was in fact captain of his football team. With both of my exes I noticed that they got cheated on. With my first ex, his ex-wife left him for another man and with the second one, more recently, 2 of his ex-girlfriends cheated on him. Both were very religious and had a strong female figure in their lives (their resp. mothers) So here's my follow-up question (and being a feminist I feel bad asking it) - are men brought up in religious homes and/or under strong female figures almost always turn out to be Beta?
Blackdragon 2015-03-27 09:46:39
I noticed that they got cheated on. With my first ex, his ex-wife left him for another man and with the second one, more recently, 2 of his ex-girlfriends cheated on him. Both were very religious and had a strong female figure in their lives (their resp. mothers)Yep. BETA. Very.
are men brought up in religious homes and/or under strong female figures almost always turn out to be Beta?Usually, yes. Single motherhood is one of the biggest reasons most men are betas today.
Sarah 2015-03-27 10:25:49
As a result of which both these men don't pursue women much. Esp. the attractive and 'hot' ones. Now i'm attracted to yet another Beta (I know. They're everywhere) He assumed an Alpha-male personality on a dating site, flirted and acted bold with me online, but when we met in person he told me that he can't be in a relationship right now but would like to "hang out". Yes I know what that is a code for. And no he's not even close to being a player. After reading your blog I can confidently say that he's Beta. Now I am a woman who is supposed to be attractive and is perceived as being 'hot'. Is this guy then afraid of getting into a relationship with me because he thinks that he's not good enough for me and that I might leave him for an Alpha?(although I never made him feel that way. I in fact tell him he's great, which is true.) My friends definitely think that I "can do better" but I quite like him. Sorry, if i'm posting too many questions. Not that I would force myself on a man who doesn't want me for his girlfriend but it would surely be nice to know what they're thinking exactly, so I can feel less confused and 'rejected'.
Blackdragon 2015-03-27 19:16:58
Is this guy then afraid of getting into a relationship with me because he thinks that he’s not good enough for me and that I might leave him for an Alpha?No. He just wants to fuck you. Just because he's a beta doesn't mean he wouldn't love a non-serious hookup or fuck buddy. Betas are still men.
Not that I would force myself on a man who doesn’t want me for his girlfriend but it would surely be nice to know what they’re thinking exactly, so I can feel less confused and ‘rejected’.1. You're a girl. You're always going to stress about what the guy thinks. Get used to it. 2. He's a beta. Once you have sex with him a few times you could quite easily demand he be your boyfriend, and he'll obey. Just try it and you'll see.
Sarah 2015-03-28 00:00:54
I like what you said in your second point 🙂 But we tried having sex and he couldn't get a hard-on. He seems to be happy just making out with me for now...it's strange that he wants a casual relationship without any sex!
Sarah 2015-03-28 00:04:42
* He seems to be happy just making out with me for now… and oral sex.
Sarah 2015-03-31 08:30:19
So I broke off with this guy instead of sleeping with him, telling him that I would like to be with someone who wants to be in a relationship with me as opposed to just hanging out. He just said that he understands. That's it! I don't think it's a Beta trait. a Beta would have asked me questions or asked me to stay. Maybe he was really NOT into me after all, which is good that I know that now. I have to admit that his coolness is bothering me. But then he said that he wants to see me one last time (for sex, but he said something else not those exact words) and I said no. I'm pretty sure he's moved on to playing the field as I found his profile on Tinder. So basically i'm having doubts about all these Alpha,Beta categorisations now.
Blackdragon 2015-03-31 11:05:22
So I broke off with this guy instead of sleeping with him, telling him that I would like to be with someone who wants to be in a relationship with me as opposed to just hanging out.Not cool. If you're attracted to the guy, you should have had sex with him. Casual sex is a good thing, not a bad thing. And you can always have casual sex with him while searching for your "relationship" guy. But he's a beta, and got tooled and dumped, with no sex. That's what happens to betas.
So basically i’m having doubts about all these Alpha,Beta categorisations now.Betas are still men. Betas are still horny. Betas will still look for sex from woman number two if woman number one says no. Just because he went back to Tinder to get laid doesn't mean he's an Alpha. Betas crave sex too.
Sarah 2015-04-01 00:19:32
That's a man's perspective and I get it. But I want passion which was missing from this one. And frankly, it can be quite demoralizing when i'm naked with a guy and he can't fuck me. Says something about his state of mind and his attraction level. No woman can put up with it...maybe i'm too sensitive. But I like men who can take charge, in and out of bed, that's all.
Sarah 2015-04-01 11:45:55
Does that make me a Beta/submissive woman then? But I am quite dominating, according to my family members.
Blackdragon 2015-04-01 15:27:17
It makes you a normal woman. As to what type you are I have no idea.
Sarah 2015-04-03 09:02:30
I just realised what your blog is all about... Why would you give such toxic and damaging advice to men with regards to women? There are some men who do want a loving, committed relationship with women and not all women are into hooking-up. And believe it or not some women actually do know how to use the Tinder app! If you, as a man know that age preferences on Tinder can be changed then what makes you think that a woman doesn't? Aren't you being sexist and misogynistic and might I say rather immature?
Blackdragon 2015-04-03 09:50:01
Aren’t you being sexist and misogynistic and might I say rather immature?Clearly you need to read a little more of this blog: https://blackdragonblog.com/2011/05/17/fun-with-logic-ten-reasons-why-im-not-a-misogynist/ https://blackdragonblog.com/2013/07/21/women-are-not-evil/ https://blackdragonblog.com/2013/06/07/love-women/
Paul 2015-04-23 17:06:19
I find this article interesting. But I don't think I fall squarely into either three categories. I'm 24 and I never was very confident growing up. The short skinny dude with a voice that just wouldn't crack. I'm not loud. I'm still short at 5'6 and still skinny (though I am working out to bring in some muscle). I think confidence has a lot to do with early experiences and mine were not great. How to be confident as a short skinny balding dude with a soft quiet voice? And here I am only talking about social confidence, and only in large groups or with people I don't know. I am very confident with people I know and in small groups. I wouldn't qualify myself as beta simply because I don't get oneitis nor do I put up with BS from girls. I don't take drama, I don't care if they end up leaving me because I don't follow their ridiculous demands. And I think many women mistake me for being beta because I lack social confidence, so they are very surprised when I'm a rock on an individual interaction level. I'd sum myself up as confident, but situation dependent, socially awkward, yet calm and centered. I don't get angry, so I'm not a needy alpha either. Maybe I'm just an exception to the rule? I'm an INTJ on the Miggs bryers test if that changes anything.
Blackdragon 2015-04-23 19:07:05
Betas, Alpha 1.0s, and Alpha 2.0s can all be socially awkward. There are complete loners and utter assholes in all three of those categories. Your level of social skill has little to do with your type.
Crystal 2015-08-23 23:15:25
Your scenarios, like your generalizations, are WAY too extreme and simplified. It's unfortunate that guys who read your blog can end up thinking they have to mirror your scenarios and act so indifferent that the woman views them as either completely insensitive (which leads to complete lack of interest over time) or lame for pretending not to care.
Blackdragon 2015-08-23 23:56:18
I love how your objection is so vacuous and general that no one can respond to it.
brandy 2015-08-25 21:42:25
Haha, that's funny. Reading this article was too hilarious. It sounds a lot like the relationships I've been in. The beta guy was the funniest. He told me he couldn't be in a relationship because he was scared of me. I wanted to laugh, but thought it was rude. Another time he told me he loved me and I said I don't believe you. He said I can see why. I was like interesting. Needless to say I was interested in him because I thought he may have needed a woman that could give him a little confidence let him be the man but it didn't work out that way in the end and truthfully, I didn't want it too and was glad it didn't because when he mentioned certain things about his life I was like thank God I dodged a bullet. This was two years ago. Now I've been dating this guy for a good year and at first he seemed like an Alpha, Alpha, til we entered a relationship, now he sounds like a needy Alpha. I can tell you this I would like to know more about this needy Alpha thing. I'm all for men being men, but I don't like being abused or looked down upon. It seems like the time he's most happy is when I sit and don't say anything, which I am like that by nature, too busy listening and observing, but then he'll say something to piss me off and well, here we go round the mulberry bush. I don't like being picked at or a man being insecure about my faithfulness because I am to the core. I usually don't get mad when they say something insecure, only when they try to look down on me. I wish I knew how to handle that.
remixx1314 2015-09-04 09:48:57
I'm a dominate, my husband is a needy alfa. He wants to be head of household but knows he can't handle it and angers him. I know I can handle. I bring in more money, i take care of the house, i do everything cause i can and not trying to sound cocky but if its left to him it never gets done or taken care of. Hes kinda like a lazy needy alfa. I handke everything and if he dont do it, ill do it and then that makes him mad and he will say sometjing like " i said i would do it". But 2 weeks later its not done. So all in all i do everything and i expect him to keep up and he is needy and lazy. Im queen bee and he doesnt do what i want and need him too then he gets mad cause i do and no offense i know im better at it. Soooo could this end up bad and is it wrong that i am the dominate one and i refuse to let him be the dominate one?
remixx1314 2015-09-04 11:51:32
Another thing though awhile back we almost had a break. And what you were saying would happen to a break up he would be a beta. So now I'm really confuse as to what he really is.
Blackdragon 2015-09-05 11:54:25
It's hard to say, but it sounds like the usual problems when a Dominant hooks up with an Alpha 1.0.
remixx1314 2015-09-05 12:23:59
So if that's the case how do we fix are arguments? Its everday about something.
Blackdragon 2015-09-05 12:31:45
I don't advise people in monogamous relationships. Personally I would divorce him and go be with someone that makes you happy. Or get marital counseling; but often that doesn't work.
Larry the conqueror 2015-11-29 21:13:07
Apha -Beta is on a continuum. So I may fit some criteria and not others....no one is set in stone...depends on the day, depends on the woman, depends on the success in business the conqueror is having and the basic love, sex and attraction of woman in long term..can she tolerate my children when I can't...it helps put a buffer in there. Are her children alpha and healthy if she has any? It sure makes your life easier. Think there are beta-alphas and alpha-betas. Is she so submissive that you want to vomit?
Maleficent 2015-11-29 22:30:27
I find your analysis of people and relationships, marriage and child support to be on point. I have come to much the same views. On marriage (which I am opposed to as I see no benefits to it as a lawyer except at death), I like the idea of a hand-fasting. Its where you pledge yourself to the other for a year and a day. Both parties like it, they renew. If they do not, they go their separate ways and part amicably. I wish you success. Please make more alpha dudes. I can't stand the whiny needy wimpy emasculated males which are so prevalent in our society.
Jared 2015-12-18 14:44:46
>> As men become more and more betaed and feminized by society It's everywhere. Very hard to escape. You can get into a lot of trouble for being a real man in America today; it's getting to the point where people, men and women alike, get confused when you act like one. It's certainly very often punished. This only makes things more difficult for a recovering beta, especially a middle-aged one like me who only had one short-lived relationship in his late teens. What is your advice as you go through life, when dealing with the expectations of feminization constantly? For example if I apply for a job, and the boss says all facial hair has to go. Of course I can disqualify the job. But I'm talking about the fact that the mindset is so prevalent, I'm just leaping out of one frying pan and into another. How do you get through life without constantly running into trouble? I work in I.T. I'm not bragging when I say that I am one of the best and most seasoned professionals you could ever meet. As you know, phone support these days in virtually every field is atrocious, whether it be your phone company, your computer company, your insurance company, etc. I used to be a senior phone support technician, so I've been in the trenches. Back in the day, agents were generally informed and respectful. Today though, particularly with American-based support, the sense that I usually get on the phone is that the expectation is for me to know nothing, and to bow to every whim and decree the agent throws at me, usually when it's 95% B.S. and often when the agent knows it. But because of my experience, this is perhaps the one area of life in which I am like Achilles. I bluntly tears these agents to pieces and still get what I want, and often in record time. So I suspect your answer is to just persist at becoming very good at being alpha, and most of the B.S. will either go away or you'll cut through it. But what about us guys in the beginner/transition stages? Any tips for lightening the load? Thank you for all of your hard work by the way. Your insights and information are top-notch and spot-on. I've subscribed and am reading many of your blog posts... your post on Peter Pan was hilariously accurate. Tried to re-watch it again about six years ago... had to stop at the recreational Indian-hunting scene. I just couldn't stomach it anymore.
Rickon 2015-12-27 21:42:08
I don't really buy any of this. For example, in the MBTI profile, an ENTJ is your "alpha" except he is sometimes outcome dependent because he considers his relationship to be an objective challenge, and only leaves when there is a lack of growth (in which case he is outcome independent). And then your categories don't really work. Unfortunately, there are not "three types of men" but rather, pragmatically speaking, probably about 10-20. This is just way too over-simplified to be useful.
Blackdragon 2015-12-27 22:04:02
For example, in the MBTI profile, an ENTJ is your “alpha” except he is sometimes outcome dependent because he considers his relationship to be an objective challenge, and only leaves when there is a lack of growth (in which case he is outcome independent). And then your categories don’t really work.Correct, these categories "don't work" if you're quoting something you read off the internet written by a psychologist. They do work if you observe male behavior in real life. For example, an Alpha 1.0 does not just leave a woman when he doesn't consider her a challenge anymore. He does cheat on her, but statistically he won't just up and leave her. He'll stay (and cheat) and get pissed when she later dumps his ass.
Unfortunately, there are not “three types of men” but rather, pragmatically speaking, probably about 10-20.If you're a researcher wanting to get into the nitty-gritty specifics of their thought processes, then sure.
This is just way too over-simplified to be useful.You seriously think trying to memorize and identify 10-20 types of men in your day-to-day life is "useful?" But doing so with three types isn't? It's useful precisely because it's simple.
Dom 2015-12-30 01:36:52
Interesting work. I agree with the majority of it. I am in many ways a typical Alpha. However depending on the situation can have some streaks of a needy Alpha. My normal nature is not the needy Alpha. But I have been with some gals before being married that made me have needy Alpha traits. Then I left because I noticed this change. Some relationships I could easy maintain a fairly normal Alpha natural attitude. The ladies that brought out some needy traits were gals that had issues with the truth or wanted to much attention and came across as needing more than one mans approval, yet wanting to be in a relationship. If that makes sense. So then I met one of the most amazing women ever. She was like different than ANY woman I ever dated or even met. Crazy pretty and just chill and so so so trusting of me and confident. And she let me be the more dominate masculine man I was naturally inside. In fact she was turned on by it and liked me to lead. Amazing sex and she doesn't really notice any other males and makes me feel like I am the only dude in the world that peaks her desire. I married her after about 3 years dating and crazy thing? Still after 13 years married and 16 together we are the same dynamic. Being a married Alpha I noticed over the years if to the right lottey jackpot level woman, can make you develop some interesting layers. I am still Alpha but can have a almost beta looking romantic streak. But this is for her. And at the right times. I found being with the right person can make it so a Alpha can steal a couple desirable traits from beta. Yet you are still very much a Alpha. Also I must say when married? having boundaries with the opposite sex is not needy Alpha. It's just a part of a marriage if done in a healthy way. Good old Dan or Bill or Bob just don't have a place anymore. Let's face it good old Dan just wanted to bang my wife anyway. The vast majority of men have female friends that they are attracted to. And would bang in a second if offered. There is just no place for them in a marriage and kids situation. Both my wife and I have clear boundaries with the opposite sex. This isn't about insecurity or needy. It's about valueing your marriage and not leaving doors open. All in all I thank God I hit the woman jackpot and got a wife who allows me to be me. And doesn't try and make me sit when I pee. They are out there. But they won't marry betas.
Emily 2016-01-17 01:54:42
For the first one he would be a beta, for the second he would answer like the Alpha.. The third is like a mixture of both? I could imagine him saying "damn I'm sorry I'm only 15 minutes late" and the last one the Alpha??? I'm so confused haha someone help?
Blackdragon 2016-01-18 10:42:26
I’m so confused haha someone help?I am too; I don't really understand your question. Perhaps rephrase?
Ralph Malpha 2016-01-25 12:25:46
Great article. You wrote about the downfalls of the needy alphas and the betas perfectly, but nothing about the main downfall of the alphas. Its probably the one most important thing, and i know why you left it out because you don't want to blow it for all of us, which is understandable. Since we're all being honest here, I'll fill everyone in: Alphas are and always will be perpetually unfaithful. We will always cheat and sleep around as much as humanly possible. Its a primitive thirst and desire to divide and conquer as much puss as possible. This is our downfall. We cheat and always will.
Blackdragon 2016-01-25 13:31:05
Alphas are and always will be perpetually unfaithful. We will always cheat and sleep around as much as humanly possible.Alpha 1.0s will cheat, yes. Alpha 2.0s won't cheat, because they never promise monogamy in the first place.
Jevin 2016-02-05 12:05:00
What if you are submissive/masochist in bed? What does mean. I am thinking of correcting this and becoming dominant/domineering. Also feel as If I am becoming beta, must correct this .
Blackdragon 2016-02-06 12:49:10
What if you are submissive/masochist in bed?As I've already said, how you behave in bed doesn't really count if you behave very differently in normal life. In bed, I'm the biggest, most dominant Alpha Male 1.0 in the universe, but that's literally the only time I'm that way.
joelsuf 2016-03-14 12:09:22
Where would Strict MGTOW be on this list? Whiny Beta? Also did you conveniently leave out Omegas? I've always characterized it this way: Alpha = Leader. They just lead, no explanation necessary. Beta = Follower, can become alpha by doing the stuff necessary to become alpha. Your depiction of "needy alphas" is kind of lumped into this as well. Omega = Unable to follow or lead because of a disability/mental illness. Gamma = Like Omegas, only not only can they not lead, they are also violent and vocal about it. Elliott Rodger was a Gamma. Your depiction of "whiny betas" kind of matches what I describe gammas to be. PUAs are gammas nowadays. Found your blog by reading Strength by Sonny's blog btw. Browsed through your articles and although we have a couple of disagreements this is WAY better than most PUAism nowadays. Especially since most PUAism is now mired with Omegas and Gammas (in my estimation anyways). I don't really think masculinity is being punished directly, I just think of it as "fuckboy awareness" but that's just my opinion. And tbh this isn't really a bad thing cuz to me there is nothing funnier than some fake ass alpha who gets butthurt about something and then he turns into a gamma. And like George Carlin so eloquently put it, its just passive eugenics. The boy who gives too many fucks doesn't deserve to fuck.
Blackdragon 2016-03-14 17:44:44
Where would Strict MGTOW be on this list?Beta.
Also did you conveniently leave out Omegas?I think the omega / gamma / whatevera model is overly complicated and a little too nerdy. Beta, Alpha 1.0 and Alpha 2.0 cover all the bases nicely. Within each subset are extreme and moderate. (i.e. Elliot Rodger was an extreme beta). If you want to get into more detail that's fine, but not super helpful in the real world, at least in my opinion.
BA 2016-05-23 22:01:55
I recently sent you an email thank you for all your writings. After going through your and reading every interesting article in a binge I realized you not only describe what I already believed, but use math and science to prove it. I do have a question for you however on how I would be classified. A "confident beta" or a demi-sexual alpha 2.0, if that's possible? Reason I ask, is because I have a very low sex drive (demisexual on the asexual/sexual spectrum); and sex isn't a motivating force in my life. Sure it's fun to have, and prior to a 3 year relationship with a dominant woman, I was a beta with disney delusions, no questions asked. After that ordeal though, I ended up committing to a zero tolerance policy on lies and a very low tolerance for drama. I've always preferred open relationships, but I tend to play the role of what you call a beta orbiter/provider. I don't put up with drama (by your definition of it) and do hard/soft nexts as you describe with those girls as well now. Even married a girl who is my platonic best friend. Would I fuck her, yes; demisexual needs emotional connection before sexual attraction occurs, and she's one of the four girls in my life I have that connection with. What I get from her is honesty and someone I can talk to about -anything- without being judged. Why I married her, was she proved that to me over 2 years and despite all the drama she causes for her boyfriends/FBs/etc; she minimized the drama I was exposed. And I know with her, I never have to worry about getting myself into an unhealthy relationship with dominants or a monogamous relationship out of a need for emotional companionship (which she provides in conversations/cuddling/etc). And most of all, tax savings for me and spousal privilege for us both... just in case *cough*... which I told her, and ended up helping me convince her. I assume she was hesistant at first, fearing a monogamy trap or something? Hell, the thing that separated her from every girl I'd ever met before her, was the week I met her and told her I liked her; she was honest with me that we'd never be in a physical relationship.... she didn't lead me on like every other girl. But I'm not in this for sex, I'm in this for companionship... and that level I don't think I have oneitis either, because while she's my main; I "beta orbit" other girls too, and though it makes her jealous (which she denies), she accepts it. ======= On a related note... I've been trying, unsuccessfully for the past few years, to push her towards dating what you call Alpha 2.0 guys with little success. She's 23 and still goes for the Needy Alphas every time. I never have an issue with her dating other guys, until they start doing the needy/"be my disney" shit. ==== If you read that all, thank you for taking the time to read this. I re-read your article before pressing send, and realized your article really doesn't mention sex, but I've read comments where you differentiate things based on sex. I feel sorry for beta's, needy alpha's disgust me in the "you're so pathetic and a hypocrite" way and alpha 2.0's I respect and admire as being "real men". I've been in a platonic relationship with my wife for shit... 5 years now, and married for 3 years. Which would seem to put me in possibly "enlightened" or "confident" beta category. But she knows what I have zero/little tolerance for and doesn't give me drama, our marriage is completely open, and my responses to all the real life examples you gave in this blog would be the alpha 2.0 responses... So... am I an anomaly... or what?
BA 2016-05-23 22:16:59
Ug, I apologize for the typos and general writing quality of that last post. I should have proof-read it another time. Tried to edit, but I guess the session expired before I saved.
Blackdragon 2016-05-24 11:13:41
Yeah, "demi-sexual" when men use the term simple means "low sex drive." It's possible to be a low sex drive Alpha 2.0, but it's unclear from your comment if you're actually putting your dick inside other women while married to your wife. She's clearly fucking other people, but I can't tell if you are. If you are, you're Alpha 2.0. If you're not, you're a beta (and a cuckold), regardless of your sex drive.
Edward 2016-06-07 14:53:41
When there is an alpha 1.0 who lies to a girl about commitment and gets caught cheating, there is a high risk of drama down the road since the girl will lose her shit. But what if the guy doesn't feed into any of the drama and completely ignores her? Wouldn't this exempt that from being a negative condition that deduces his happiness? I understand that it would probably blow the chances of getting laid with her in the future (definitely not with all of them, some of them would let the guy get away with murder and still stay with them for crying out loud) but there are always more women out there
Blackdragon 2016-06-07 15:11:37
When there is an alpha 1.0 who lies to a girl about commitment and gets caught cheating, there is a high risk of drama down the road since the girl will lose her shit. But what if the guy doesn’t feed into any of the drama and completely ignores her? Wouldn’t this exempt that from being a negative condition that deduces his happiness?No. She's still giving him drama, which by definition is negative and unpleasant. If a woman you care about is screaming at you, it's unpleasant whether or not you're responding to it.
I understand that it would probably blow the chances of getting laid with her in the future (definitely not with all of them, some of them would let the guy get away with murder and still stay with them for crying out loud) but there are always more women out thereExactly, there are always more women out there, so what's the point of lying to one of them when you're going to get some on the side anyway? Just be honest about everything and if she doesn't like it, that's her damn problem.
Dee 2016-07-19 07:27:30
Hey Blackdragon, found this blog today...wow. Insightful, helpful..strangely relaxing.. And a relief...seeing observations actualy in print. Been dating Alpha needy. But broke off recently. Lifes too short for living it under command or else. Its a sunny day and I am on days leave from work... At peace with pottering and existing positively in my own skin. No guilt for daring to feel good without his input...yet at peace with your input and no nonsense clarity. Simple. Thanks..whoever you are Blackdragon, your no nonsense clarity is pretty sexy aswell..?
Dee 2016-07-19 07:40:29
Alpha1.0 i should have said. Not Alpha needy..
Blackdragon 2016-07-19 11:32:04
whoever you are Blackdragon, your no nonsense clarity is pretty sexy aswell..I'm a sexy sexy beast.
RiCHHOMiEQUAN 2016-08-06 07:18:33
Comment deleted for violation of Rule Number Five.
Dan 2016-08-28 12:53:48
Articles like this is the reason I pretty much do what I want. I really don't care if women are attracted to me or not. Most of them are confused and narcissistic little girls with daddy issues. I don't really care what category people put me in because that is not what is important to me. As long as I like the person that I see in the mirror, that is good enough for me. Men should always look out for themselves first and not worry about what society thinks of them. We can't control what people think of us anyway. There are much bigger issues in this world that we as men need to worry about than what category society puts us in. Where are our priorities people? Really? The world is in shambles and you're concerned about what category of man you are?
Mike 2016-10-14 10:31:39
First of all, thank you so much for this article, which is a better explanation of the male dynamic than anything I have ever read (maybe excluding The Bible - but based on it's length and complexity, I won't claim to have studied it enough to extract and comprehend the truth it contains regarding this subject). That said, I am certain it does, as I believe The Bible contains all truth. But I digress ... Is it possible for an Alpha or Needy Alpha to crave monogamy as well as to crave/require an emotional connection to truly enjoy the sex? The reason I ask is because I definitely feel those things are true about me, and I have predominantly displayed Needy Alpha behavior in all three of the long term relationships (each 5+ years) I have had. That said, check this out. And please forgive me if you already addressed this in response to another comment ... Although, like I said, I identify with Needy Alpha behavior for sure (especially in relationships), at times in those relationships and also a fairly large percentage of the time going on first dates or just interacting with women in general (especially for the first time in public, for instance), I definitely slip into Beta/wuss/nice guy/people pleaser mode, and I hate it!! Sometimes the (Needy) Alpha confidence that I would otherwise possess is just non-existent, and I crash and burn in Beta mode. And I really beat myself up over it. Possibly because I know better when I'm "at my best" as a Needy Alpha? So, in summary, is it possible and/or common for someone to be a Needy Alpha at times, and a Beta at other times? You know, like weave back and forth from one to the other? If so, the following could explain why. I also suffer from several past trauma issues, causing hardcore depression and anxiety, etc. throughout my life, and therefore would not at all be surprised if the state of my mental health/chemical balance/imbalance at any given time doesn't dictate which type of man I am in any given moment. Sometimes I am incredibly social, super assertive, etc., and other times extremely anti-social and insecure. Like two completely different people.
Blackdragon 2016-10-15 02:17:54
I am certain it does, as I believe The Bible contains all truth.A book of 2000 year-old desert myths written for illiterate peasants that's been edited and modified by kings and priests hundreds of times over the years to suit their purposes won't contain very much truth.
Is it possible for an Alpha or Needy Alpha to crave monogamy as well as to crave/require an emotional connection to truly enjoy the sex?Temporarily, yes, as in 1-4 years or so. Beyond 3-4 years or so, no.
So, in summary, is it possible and/or common for someone to be a Needy Alpha at times, and a Beta at other times? You know, like weave back and forth from one to the other?Read this.
I also suffer from several past trauma issues, causing hardcore depression and anxiety, etc. throughout my life, and therefore would not at all be surprised if the state of my mental health/chemical balance/imbalanceAh. That would explain your Bible comments.
Zander 2016-10-21 16:34:15
@Wils Yeah, like Blimey said, if they're unconfident and outcome independent, then they're either a lying beta or alpha in distress. I only included alpha in distress because my family was super oppressive, so I came across unconfident, but it didn't really feel natural. I thought I was a beta and would give beta responses to things, but it felt weird and uncomfortable, and I was consistently outcome independent, so when I finally got away from my family and started being myself, I felt WAY more comfortable as a full on alpha. I assume I'm not the only one who's experienced that. On a separate note, I would like to say that there are other ways to communicate in those scenarios in the article. I think that's my only complaint with most "alpha/beta" articles is that they always come across too black and white. Which can be hard for people trying to learn what it's all about.
Jasmine 2017-01-10 17:43:52
...I have a guy thatI've been dating for a little while now... I'm curious to know what type he is, and I can't quite figure it out on my own... He lacks self confidence generally, but is very confident when it comes to me, even a bit cocky. He refuses to control me, but tells me when something bothers him... He is sensitive and caring and kind, but gives me space and lets me be alone... He can get jealous, but unless I am personally encouraging something that is clearly...wrong... it's okay with him. I have strong opinions and he respects them, but will argue for his own if mine go against his. He can be needy and clingy, but also likes to have time apart when we need it.
Greg 2017-01-30 11:24:29
Did you ever make a post on how to transition from an Alpha 1.0 (Needy Alpha) to an Alpha 2.0?
Blackdragon 2017-01-30 22:15:12
No. It's still on the topic list. I'll get to it one of these days, though my book covers a lot of it.
Greg 2017-01-31 09:49:07
Can you make a response here about how to transition from Alpha 1.0 to 2.0, with some basics? How to respond to situations that will make you a 2.0 in her eyes, and why acting like that will make her want you more? Reading the Alpha 1.0 (Needy Alpha) description was so accurate for me I was kind of freaked out. I don't want to be like that any more because it leads to such bullshit in LTR's. I just want her to continue to want me with as little bullshit involved as possible. Much appreciated.
Blackdragon 2017-01-31 13:04:51
Can you make a response here about how to transition from Alpha 1.0 to 2.0, with some basics?No. Buy my book if you really need the info. It's only $9 for the digital version.
Ryan 2017-03-05 05:58:32
Wow. Great work. Thank you. I am very much an alpha. I can make great friends with dominate girls but no fucking way a long term relationship. I like submissive girls but not too submissive that they take me off my perma-happy-high. Independants are awesome and highly attractive to me but, if theyre high spectrum, i get too intimidated by their awesomeness but i still make great friends with them too. The top notch independants must get that a lot i think. Men being intimidated by them. I think alphas probably intimidate a lot of submissive types too and can even sometimes intimidate independants. I'd like to add a little theory into discussion here about who i think are most likely to be abusive type partners. I think alphas and independants are very unlikely canidates to be abusive. Dominants and, suprisingly, submissives are who i think would most likely be abusive. With men, some betas and many needy alphas are likely abusive type canidates. What do yous reckon? One last thing. Which type make good same-sex friends? Which possibly clash when on the prowl at the party, club ect.. Im alpha, my best friend is alpha and i get along great with most betas and i dislike needy alphas for the most part. I think ive butted horns a fair few times with needy alphas when both of us are prowling the same vicinity. Or same group of girls ect. Pardon my use of word "prowl," It sounds a bit slimey but i couldnt think of a less predatorial sounding word to fit.. Lol. .. Again, great generalisation of relationship personality type categories. Thanks.
Blackdragon 2017-03-06 13:34:29
Which type make good same-sex friends?If you're an Alpha 2.0 and thus outcome independent, they all do. I love hanging out with betas and Alpha 1.0's. They're hilarious. And other 2.0's when I can (which is rare).
georgie 2017-06-17 19:02:28
Thanks. Great insight. I also read the types of women article. This explains why my marriage to the Brazilian pro wrestler didn't work out (wow so outcome dependant! ). So if men should aspire toward alpha state, should women who desire happiness and lasting relationships aspire toward submissive state? I think I fit the description of the independent, buthave been ssubmissive for short times (1 or 2 years) with needy alphas until they became abusive. Any advice on transforming in a real way from independent to submissive?
Lewis 2017-10-14 20:11:47
Read through this blog as well as several others, and it has occurred to me that, throughout all of it, one important aspect of any relationship, whether it be with the three types above (Alpha v1/v2, Needy Alpha and Beta) or others like Omegas and Gammas, was completely ignored: Abuse. Obviously this will widely vary from scenario to scenario, but it often does get me curious just how Alphas are portrayed as the ideal state of man if they are the ones that are most likely to commit crimes relating to sexual harassment, rape and other such felonies? Betas, on the other hand, are the group most likely to be the victims of such, but such is natural when it comes to dealing with dominants and submissives alike. Another thing to touch on is Omegas, which has always been a topic of interest to me. Since I'm not an alpha in that I don't seek to control or be responsible for leading everyone close to me, nor am I a Beta in that I have the desire to lead at times as well as no submissive nature in me at all, I often feel neither of these groups fit me, hence why I believe myself to be an Omega. Since I chose not to be a part of the traditional social hierarchy, I much prefer to make my own goals for me to succeed at and make my own way in life. Hell it's often a thrill just doing my own thing, especially when the alphas are at each other whilst the betas watch by helplessly, I just ignore all of the drama and get right into appealing the women of my choice, straight and simple. Call me a 'rogue social wanderer' if you'd like, but I go by my own rules and, let's be frank here, it's logical when one is neither Alpha nor Beta. I have no worries of needing any 'approval' from beta friends with shallow friendships or going out of my way to prove things I already know I excel at. I may only have a few true friends to rely on, but they are well-worth it in the long-run. Frankly, as an Omega, it amuses me how some associate it with being disabled or mentally retarded, yet considering the SJWs and feminists promoting more Beta males whilst the Neo-nazis are pushing out more and more Alpha males by the second, I can easily push that aside and be my own man without messing my hands in such silly affairs. Same goes for the whole abuse cycle, I am neither a predator or prey, neither a instigator nor a victim. I follow where my heart desires to and pursue my own passions, with my own morals to guide me. That's the best part about being an Omega, I need no approval from people I have little interest in. Alphas may scoff at me or alienate me from their crowd for not submitting to their authority and Betas may choose to stick to their leaders instead of risking a chance with the outsider, but I find other ways of getting the right kind of woman through a level of resourcefulness and cunning not often displayed by Alphas.
Blackdragon 2017-10-14 23:33:48
Obviously this will widely vary from scenario to scenario, but it often does get me curious just how Alphas are portrayed as the ideal state of man if they are the ones that are most likely to commit crimes relating to sexual harassment, rape and other such felonies?Incorrect. Most violent crimes are committed by repressed betas, not Alphas. As just one example, take a look mass shootings... almost always a beta is the perpetrator.
Jack Outside the Box 2017-10-15 04:40:48
Political correctness detected. Initiating red pill countermeasures now:
Read through this blog as well as several others, and it has occurred to me that, throughout all of it, one important aspect of any relationship, whether it be with the three types above (Alpha v1/v2, Needy Alpha and Beta) or others like Omegas and Gammas, was completely ignored: Abuse.Oh here we go.
Obviously this will widely vary from scenario to scenario, but it often does get me curious just how Alphas are portrayed as the ideal state of man if they are the ones that are most likely to commit crimes relating to sexual harassment, rape and other such felonies?LOL! First of all, sexual harassment is not even crime, to say nothing about calling it a felony. It is a violation of civil law. And even then, only when the woman is a captive audience, since passing a civil law against sexual harassment in any other instance would violate the First Amendment. A woman can file a sexual harassment lawsuit against a man in only two environments - the workplace and in higher education (post-high school), since, as an adult, those are the only two places where she's a captive audience. In every other place, sexual harassment is Free Speech and perfectly legal. The only exception is if part of the sexual harassment involves physical assault (which is crime), or turning her into a captive audience on the street by deliberately following her and not allowing her to get away (which makes the act criminal harassment and sometimes even stalking, regardless of whether it is sexual or not). But with those exceptions aside, sexual harassment is perfectly legal Free Speech, unless she's a captive audience, in which case, it becomes a civil violation, but still not a crime, and certainly not a felony. Second of all, the overwhelming majority of rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment is committed by betas and alpha 1.0s, not 2.0s, so you're wrong there.
Betas, on the other hand, are the group most likely to be the victims of such, but such is natural when it comes to dealing with dominants and submissives alike.No. Betas are more likely to be perpetrators of rape. Male femininity (a beta trait) clashes with female femininity. He will attack inside her that which he hates most about himself. Plus, women resist feminine men and the key component of rape is, obviously, female resistance. Male masculinity is precisely a woman's most powerful source of protection against rape. And the more masculine a man is, the less likely the woman will want to resist him. And the more sexually successful the man is, the less likely he is to be a rapist. Most rapists are extreme betas or omegas.
Another thing to touch on is Omegas, which has always been a topic of interest to me. Since I’m not an alpha in that I don’t seek to control or be responsible for leading everyone close to me,You're describing alpha 1s, not alpha 2s. Alpha 2s have no desire to lead people or control them either.
nor am I a Beta in that I have the desire to lead at times as well as no submissive nature in me at all, I often feel neither of these groups fit me, hence why I believe myself to be an Omega.Nope. That would make you an alpha 2. An omega is worse than a beta: Someone who has zero confidence, but is filled with outcome independence (nihilism). Omegas are lifetime virgins, or get laid only with prostitutes or rarely through luck, whereas betas follow the mainstream program and get laid via being providers.
Since I chose not to be a part of the traditional social hierarchy, I much prefer to make my own goals for me to succeed at and make my own way in life. Hell it’s often a thrill just doing my own thing, especially when the alphas are at each other whilst the betas watch by helplessly,You're describing yourself as an alpha 2, not an omega. And your description of an alpha is actually an alpha 1.
Call me a ‘rogue social wanderer’ if you’d like, but I go by my own rules and, let’s be frank here, it’s logical when one is neither Alpha nor Beta. I have no worries of needing any ‘approval’ from beta friends with shallow friendships or going out of my way to prove things I already know I excel at. I may only have a few true friends to rely on, but they are well-worth it in the long-run.Then you're an alpha 2 (but you may want to dump the PC anti-alpha stereotypes).
Frankly, as an Omega, it amuses me how some associate it with being disabled or mentally retarded, yet considering the SJWs and feminists promoting more Beta males whilst the Neo-nazis are pushing out more and more Alpha males by the second,Correction: The Neo-Nazis are pushing out more alpha 1s by the second.
I can easily push that aside and be my own man without messing my hands in such silly affairs.Alpha 2.
Same goes for the whole abuse cycle, I am neither a predator or prey, neither a instigator nor a victim. I follow where my heart desires to and pursue my own passions, with my own morals to guide me.Alpha 2. But you have been brainwashed by PC stereotypes.
That’s the best part about being an Omega, I need no approval from people I have little interest in. Alphas may scoff at me or alienate me from their crowd for not submitting to their authorityThose are alpha 1s. Alpha 2s have no interest in anyone submitting to their authority.
and Betas may choose to stick to their leaders instead of risking a chance with the outsider, but I find other ways of getting the right kind of woman through a level of resourcefulness and cunning not often displayed by Alphas.Dump the feminist narrative about what an alpha is and read this blog more.
Sean 2017-10-30 13:33:37
Stefano 2017-12-27 11:54:28
[quote]Did you ever make a post on how to transition from an Alpha 1.0 (Needy Alpha) to an Alpha 2.0?[/quote] As a very strong Alpha 1.0 who can pick up and retain women well, I can basically tell you the answer is probably to give up once and for all on monogamy if you want to be Alpha 2.0 instead of 1.0. I have absolutely given up on paper (legal) marriage since it merely creates a financial partnership which is of ZERO benefit to the higher income partner and then adds cost, emotional abuse, and delay to a breakup which is painful enough to begin with. I would possibly do the ceremony/party part of marriage again. Against my better judgement and the odds, I will still give monogamy to a seemingly strong, SMART, and highly sexually open woman who I respect (usually submissives or quasi-independent women). Yes, I think I am bigger than the game, lol. It has been to my peril many times, and I do tend to drive the women away with neediness (less common) or I cheat or end up about to cheat and admit to it or get caught. This BD blog post above is classic for good reason! The reason I repeatedly attempt a flawed model (monogamy) is that I dislike condoms, I respect my physical and mental health, I think it is beta as all hell to permit a woman to constantly have sex with other guys (esp MMF threesome involving the main guy in woman's life) or to have the woman do any significantly dominant BDSM stuff to the guy (bondage, pegging, etc etc). Also, in monogamy, I think you get the deepest emotional rewards. I don't flirt with women when I'm monogamous. I mention my girlfriend early and often to other women who might give me any kind of IOIs, and I will withdraw or get rude if they don't respect that. Basically, I don't keep female "friends" or "cushion" or backup "plan B's" when monogamous since platonic cross-sex friendship is utter nonsense. My "backup plan" is that I'm fit, successful, social, etc etc and can easily date up many new options when monogamous relationships end. With game skill, I can keep women around without kissing their ass and doing daily contact or tri-weekly dates, so I can have hobbies and friends and work my professional job while still retaining a quality partner. Most most importantly: I still believe monogamy - even serial monogamy - love allows for the best self-respect and partnership respect from within both partners. Disney or allowing myself to be gamed by high quality sex and falling for the female imperative? Maybe. I have done threesomes, hall passes both ways, etc (yes, I know this is non-monogamy) to extend or spice up LTRs, but I have never created a bona fide OLTR or MLTR. As you may imagine, I am a high sex drive guy who can pick up women at my SMV level at the drop of a hat (sex-driven player type), but I also keep falling of the monogamy horse. Each time I'm thinking I'm older and wiser and setting better boundaries for myself with women who aren't my partner (and foolishly trying to communicate well and set boundaries on my partner for orbiters, etc), guess what happens? Yep. I will say that falling off the horse hurts less and less as you learn to hop back onto stronger and faster horses, but it still might be better to just pet many horses. Life is not simple. I like riding. I don't like other dudes borrowing my horse. Yes, my horses that run away tend to circle back - esp if the relationship wasn't LTR, but I have usually moved on to a new horse by that time. But yeah... to sum it up: Alpha 1.0 thinks monogamy can work and he can gain control with sexual restraint, assuming he has the right strong mental (and physical!) frame. Alpha 2.0 has no such disillusions and will give up sexual control in order to gain options and keep himself emotionally insulated. That would be my guess, and I'm interested to see if BD ever made that post?
Nishnat Biswas 2018-02-03 01:53:00
What you have said applies to men across the whole world and not just Western men. I am interested to know few thing. Where will you put Deltas and Gammas?? If we go by the definition of Beta as Second in Command, then is the Alpha 1.0 really a higher beta. In this case, the beta becomes a lower beta or delta.? Do you believe in Sigma? If so, where will you put him. Above Alpha 2.0 or parallel to Alpha 1.0?
Val 2018-03-07 20:48:58
My dad was a needy alpha, bless his heart, and I think the term fits perfectly. Thank God I chose an Alpha. Alphas are so fucking FUN !!! You never have to worry about them, they take care of themselves. Also they are never passive aggressive. They never leave you emails or voice messages that leave you scratching your head thinking "what?" . A Beta trying to pass as an Alpha can really waste a lot of a girl's time, if she isn't careful. Now I can tell the difference.
Val 2018-03-07 21:09:36
I'd like to add that I don't believe that a Beta can ever "transition" into an Alpha. They say Betas hang around Alpha's waiting for a chance to be the Alpha. But they never do, it is a fantasy in their mind. If the original Alpha leaves, either the group disbands or another Alpha comes along. Alphas are born, not made. I'm sorry about this because I wish there were more of them. If you are a Beta, be the best Beta you can and get on with your life. For the love of God STOP mimicing Alpha 2 behavior as a way of getting women! It is just such a cluster for women trying to enjoy their lives, seriously!
Antekirtt 2018-03-07 21:31:35
I suggest you pay very close attention to Val's last comment. Folks, this is female instinctual selection at work. Just like men would like makeup and wonderbra not to hide an ugly face or flat boobs, women are also looking for "real genes", deep down, and would viscerally prefer if you were always an alpha from day 1. They will throw everything they've got in your face to call you out and see if you crack under pressure and reveal a beta core. Hold your frame. If you shrug it off they will still get the tingles and fuck you. Fail the shit test and they'll go look for a more convincing sell. More directly to Val: you've got some definitions to check. "Beta" as the second in rank who replaces the alpha should he die is the zoological definition, not the PUA definition used here. Humans have less rigidly innate dominant/submissive dispositions, though note I said "less rigid", not "100% free", which is very different.
Jack Outside the Box 2018-03-07 21:31:54
I’d like to add that I don’t believe that a Beta can ever “transition” into an Alpha.The owner of this blog used to be a beta, but transitioned into alpha. And, by the way, so did I. We're not betas anymore.
Alphas are born, not made.Horse garbage! Me, BD, and many other former betas are living proof that you are wrong. Yes, we had to mimic it at first, but it eventually became real.
If you are a Beta, be the best Beta you can and get on with your life.Or, become an alpha like we did.
For the love of God STOP mimicing Alpha 2 behavior as a way of getting women!No! We want women. We're not going to start acting like betas again! Ever!
It is just such a cluster for women trying to enjoy their lives, seriously!Tough monkey balls! You're going to continue sleeping with us, thinking we were always alpha, whether you like it or not. Muahahahaha!!!
joelsuf 2018-03-07 22:50:25
I suggest you pay very close attention to Val’s last comment. Folks, this is female instinctual selection at work.We've had disagreements on the other post, but on this we are in 100% agreement. Perfect example of it.
They will throw everything they’ve got in your face to call you out and see if you crack under pressure and reveal a beta core. Hold your frame. If you shrug it off they will still get the tingles and fuck you. Fail the shit test and they’ll go look for a more convincing sell.Even better, don't even believe in the concept of a "shit test." To me there is no such thing. It doesn't exist. Are you gonna resist me when I tell you to follow my lead? Or when I put the moves on you? Are you gonna give me drama? Yes? You're gonna do all those things? Cool, thanks for coming. I'm out, gonna go look for someone better now. Good luck in your search. THAT is how an alpha thinks. There is always someone better.
“Beta” as the second in rank who replaces the alpha should he die is the zoological definition, not the PUA definition used here.100% correct. And to me, it is the only definition. The PUA definition is: "People who have a lower laycount than the one we are (usually) making up (I even doubt JMULV's laycount and I think he's legit)" which has now grown into the manosphere definition of "any man who disagrees with us." Ugh. Neither one of these are close to objective. Its good to know we can agree on something.
Found a diamond in the rough 2019-05-09 02:21:55
I just found your blog. It's interesting and I think you are on to something, but I humbly disagree on one thing. There are more than three types of men. I have dated all three of the ones you describe, but I married one not listed here at all. I mostly found myself with the Alpha and the Needy Alpha. I "dated" a few betas, but you could hardly call it dating as I ran for the hills pretty quickly. Who I finally found happiness and completion with is not defined here at all. He is strong, tough, confident, masculine, and a happy guy like your Alpha but he is not jealous, controlling, domineering, or quick to anger. However, he does have expectations that I am happy to abide by. He has never barked orders, even when I have done things he is not happy with, he does not micromanage. His expectations are simple things that any housewide and respectful woman should have, honestly. Make sure the house is in order when he comes home from work, don't nag him and speak with respect and be a blast in the bedroom! We rarely fight. In 14 years, he has never cared who I talk to on FB or on the phone, etc. So long as the person I am talking to, male or female, is not disrespectful towards me, him or the fact that I am a married woman. In other words, trying to sleep with me, sending dick pics, etc. Hell, I even have ex's I still am friends with and he honestly doesn't care! He knows I am not going anywhere and that I am not going to cheat on him. I welcome to do pretty much whatever I like so long as the house is clean, the kids are tended to and I am not being a bitch and doing something straight up disrespectful. What exactly would you label that type of man?