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How Open Marriage Works
-By Caleb Jones
I'm going to tell you a story.
I've been working on this blog post for a few weeks now, and I wanted to make it as complete as possible while staying within the context of a single, simple article doing its best to convey a complicated topic that cannot be self-contained in one blog post. As such, this the longest post I've ever made on this blog. It's also the one that caused me to experience the most emotions as I was writing it and refining it. I'm not a super emotional guy obviously, but rarely have my emotions been so...pure and clear while writing a blog article.
So hold on to your hats! You're in for quite a ride today.
Too many people out there agree (even if reluctantly) that long-term monogamy really doesn't work, yet they have trouble wrapping their heads around how a long-term open relationship or open marriage would actually work in real life for them. Oh, they get how short term or casual open relationships would work, but regarding the long-term stuff, where you've actually made some commitments to each other, and are deeply in love, living together and possibly having kids, that's where they just can't visualize it. "Yeah it sounds good, but how would that actually work?"
If you've spent most of your adult life sporadically eating raw zucchini and hating it, and I come along and recommend you occasionally eat apples instead, because they taste better and will make you happier, that would make sense.
But what if you've never seen an apple in real life, and have never seen anyone else eat an apple in real life? What if I was just some guy on the internet in some distant city talking about how great apples are? Even if you agreed zucchini tastes like shit, even if zucchini made you unhappy, to you an apple would just be some theoretical concept. Even if you were a reasonably intelligent person you'd likely be very skeptical and just stick with an unhappy-to-mediocre life eating zucchini. This is the problem I face in trying to relay to people the huge advantages of serious open relationships and/or open marriages.
Selfishly speaking, the best thing to do would be to fork up the cash and buy one of the two above linked ebooks so you can see real-life, proven systems on exactly how it's done. The problem is if you're a real Doubting Thomas, you're probably not going to spend the money to pay for something you can't visualize would work for you in the first place, no matter how smart or experienced or honest you consider me to be, even if you agree that long-term monogamy is probably not a good idea.
(To give you a little inside information on my Blackdragon business, my online dating and get laid fast ebooks far outsell my open relationship stuff, yet the open relationship stuff sparks equivalent behind-the-scenes interest, thought, and conversation. I find this very interesting, if not surprising.)
So the second best thing you could do would be to sit down and talk to someone you know who has a serious relationship or marriage like this. Problem is, people with these kinds of arrangements generally don't advertise them due to societal pressures. Instead they put up a false front of being monogamous, and are discreetly open behind closed doors.
I've told the story before about how when I first got married, there was a married couple with kids who had an open marriage who lived just four houses down the street from me. I didn't find this out until well after I was married. If before my marriage I had sat down with the two of them for about an hour and asked some questions, I could have saved myself a lot of hassle, and perhaps shaved five to ten years off my open relationships learning curve.
So today I'm going to attempt the third best thing. I'll relay how something like this would work in real life, but in story form. Perhaps this will help you overcome that hump in your brain about how being in a long-term open marriage or live-in relationship could work for YOU, rather than suffering all the negatives and risks of standard monogamy. Or perhaps it won't, and you'll read the below story and end up thinking "Yeah, maybe some people could do that, but I never could." I guess we're about to find out.
I'll use myself as the example, since I know me better than I know you. Because you and I likely don't personally know anyone in common, I'll use celebrities as all the other characters in the story, since we have some form of commonality there. I will do my best to present these celebrities based on what I know about them (which admittedly may be inaccurate due to the media, but hey, we have to start somewhere).
I will also assign to them the basic feminine types (as described here), and that might require a little "literary license". Because I have to use celebrities as characters in the story, some of this will be tongue-in-cheek of course, but I'll do my best to stay as serious and accurate as I can throughout. Regardless, don't get hung up on the details...remember, this is a story, which means fiction.
Note that this story will be told from my point of view. That means I'll be dealing with the type of women I like, not necessarily the type of women you like. You're going to be different of course, so just modify things you read in the story that would best suit you.
Now it's storytime boys and girls!
Blackdragon Gets An OLTR
Once upon a time, there was an arrogant shithead named Blackdragon. This guy (me) loved sex, loved women, loved freedom, and loved happiness. He also worked very hard, loved making money, and was protective of the money he made. Because of his strong desire for happiness, he had a very low drama tolerance. But he was also a human being, and thus strongly desired to be in love and devote himself to one special gal (while fucking women on the side of course, since he was well aware long-term monogamy was not a system that worked, nor made people long-term happy).
After dating and fucking many women and having a blast, and after having many serious open relationships (MLTRs) and casual open relationships (FBs), he finally found a woman who was beautiful, nice, fun, low-drama, and (relatively speaking) low-jealousy. She qualified for a long-term OLTR where Blackdragon could actually live with her and build a life with her.
Who would this woman be? I know me, and likely my OLTR will either be A) a sweet submissive younger gal or B) a woman my age who is highly independent (MY definition of independent woman, not women's definition). Either would be great. So, after having many MLTRs I'd finally come up with two possible candidates.
The first candidate, the younger woman one, would be Emilia Clarke. big difference between 18 year-old women and 25 year-old women, and I should know, since I often date both.)
In other words, she's perfect OLTR quality.
The second candidate, the more independent one in my age group, would definitely be Rosamund Pike.
Rosamund just seems like she has all of her shit together. She's hot, but not nearly as hot as Emilia, but that's okay. See, in an OLTR or OLTR marriage, you can fuck other women on the side, so your wife doesn't have to be the hottest woman on the planet. As long as she's at least fuckable to you, you can always get your sexual hotness-needs met by fucking more attractive women on the side.
One of the fantastic things about OLTRs is that unlike with traditional monogamous marriage (TMM), your spouse does not have to be this perfect person who must be "all things". (By the way, this applies to you women out there looking for a man to do this with.) This is a huge, huge advantage to the OLTR that people often forget about.
So now I have to pick between Emilia and Rosamund. Hm. Not an easy choice. Both of them have huge advantages and
Emilia would be younger, hotter, and more fun, and the sex would be very hot. Emilia is also more submissive than Rosamund, which would be nice. However Emilia is a younger woman...she'd want to have babies with me. That would certainly be a disruption in my life.
Also because she's younger, the OLTR would probably not last as long as an OLTR with Rosamund, since Rosamund has been around the block and has a much better idea of what she wants. Emilia, as a more submissive gal, would also expect more ass-kissing and quality time from me, and that would be tough on my mission, since I'm a busy guy. She'd also definitely be more jealous than Rosamund when I was out fucking other chicks, and that's bad. All of these things would have to be considered. But damn, Emilia would be so enjoyable and wonderful and full of energy, she'd make me feel young and vibrant every day in ways Rosamund never could.
As an Independent (again, I'm using MY definitions here...read that link if you're not familiar), Rosamund would have her own life and her own mission, so she would be too busy and excited with her own life to get (overly) jealous when I'm out having sex with other women. She would see evidence of me fucking these cute women (often younger women) on the side, and Rosamund would just snort, make a funny comment, and that would be it. No explosions, no long arguments or hand-wringing. Rosamund is too mature and busy with her own life for that silly shit.
Every day, she could go out into the world working on her mission, doing her thing, and I could do mine, and at the end of the day we could reunite and experience each other as man and wife. Heaven! Unlike with Emilia, Rosamund would be highly intelligent, well-read, experienced, nuanced, and cultured. We could sit in front of the fireplace after a long day and have deep, stimulating conversations. I love that. She could even help me out in my business, and I could help her in her acting career. Sex would also be great with Rosamund because at her mid-30's she's at her sexual peak...she'd be off-the-wall high-sex-drive, cumming left and right. Yum.
However, Rosamund has clicked over the dreaded age of 33, and that brings several strong negatives to a freedom-loving Alpha like me. It means that even though she was an Independent, she would not be nearly as flexible in our relationship as Emilia would. Emilia would let me do whatever the fuck I wanted; not so with Rosamund. She'd have some rules and regulations and standards she'd expect me to go along with. Not as many as a Dominant, but there would be some.
As an older woman, Rosamund would expect more from me, and as a result would definitely be a more expensive wife than Emilia, and I hate spending money. If there was ever a disagreement with Emilia, I'd get my way. But with Rosamund, there'd be a real fight on my hands and sometimes I'd have to compromise...and as an Alpha, the more I have to compromise, the less happy I'll be. ("Compromise" is part of the beta world, not the Alpha world. Whenever an Alpha is dumb enough, or oneitisy enough to "compromise" in any non-minor way in his "relationship", you can guarantee there will be major, major problems down the road.)
On the other hand, Rosamund already has children, so she wouldn't be demanding that I have more with her, so the added complexity of having more children would not be a factor in our OLTR, which would be very nice. (Having kids is wonderful but it tends to damage happiness and severely complicate your relationship.)
So as you can see, although either woman would make a fantastic OLTR, there are pros and cons to each that I would have to weigh carefully. I hope the above also makes it clear that contrary to what a lot of you seem to believe, I am not suggesting that open relationships are perfect. Of course they aren't. They have problems and weaknesses and disadvantages just like any other long-term relationship. However OLTRs are far superior to traditional monogamous relationships, as you'll see as you read further into the story.
So dammit, which of these gals do I pick? That decision could be an entire story in and of itself, but we need to get to the OLTR here, so I'll just flip a coin. Heads it's Emilia, tails it's Rosamund.
Heads. Looks like I'm moving in with my sweet little Emilia. Sorry Rosamund. Maybe next time.
Moving In Together
Emilia explodes with happiness. She plasters on Facebook that she's finally found the man of her dreams and getting "married" and everyone congratulates her. On my Facebook, I keep it quiet. No announcements or status changes or anything. When I sarge new women I don't want to blatantly advertise that I'm already "married" or "taken", at least not at this point. I also don't want to rub it in my other women's faces, since some of them may still have strong feelings for me.
Of course, I would certainly talk about my new "marriage" to Emilia on this blog and things like that. Everyone, including everyone in my social circle and work circle, would know I had a new "wife", it's just that on things like Facebook I'd keep things discreet. At least for the time being.
There would be two immediate hurdles that needed smoothing out, one because I'm much older, and the other because I'm Blackdragon. Emilia's parents, and perhaps some of her close friends, would be a little concerned that she was getting serious and moving in with some 40 year-old guy who teaches older men how to fuck younger women online, but once I met her parents they'd see I'm actually a pretty nice guy in real life, very responsible and protective, and that I have other businesses and income sources that have nothing to do with this dating/seduction/relationship stuff.
So I'd win them over pretty quick. "I'll take good care of her," I'd tell them, and it'd be the truth.
So Emilia and I move in together and it's one of the happiest days of our lives. Her pussy gets sore with all of the sex. (When it gets really sore, I go fuck other women on the side. More on this in a minute.) Let's assume that because Emilia is so young, she has a lower income and lower net worth than I do. In real life she may be wealthier than me, but if I were to really "marry" a much younger woman, the odds are overwhelming I'd be the one with the money, so let's stick with that for the sake of the story.
This means that Emilia would move into my house (not the other way around), and the house would legally be 100% mine, not hers, and not "ours". We would of course refer to it as "our house", but legally it would be mine. My name would be on the lease/mortgage/deed/whatever and hers would not be. The house payment I would pay myself, out of a checking account that just had my name on it, not hers.
That being said, I would devote most of the house to her, to decorate any way she liked, since I really don't give a shit, and I want my little Emilia to be happy. Only my home office would be off-limits. That room would be mine, to do with as I please, but with the rest of the house she could go hog wild and do whatever she liked with zero input from me.
All other assets would be hers or mine, not ours. Her car would be legally her car with just her name on it and not mine, and likewise my car would be just mine. We would not have any joint checking accounts. Instead whenever she needed money I would drop some cash into her account, consider it lost forever, and let her do whatever the hell she liked with it.
Obviously we would still have a monthly budget, so there would be a limit to how much money I gave her to spend. I would pay the bills and be responsible for managing all our investments, and again, she'd have her investments, and I'd have mine, none of this "ours" stuff. Of course, her investments would be hers, so if she wanted to manage them herself, she'd be more than welcome. She would never be allowed to touch my investments. (Talk about inviting problems and drama!)
Would we actually get legally married? Of course my preference would be a strong no, and if I hooked up with Rosamund that would probably not be necessary. However Emilia is young, feminine, carefree, and full of Disney. She'd strongly want to get married and have a wedding and all that shit. Ugh. This would be one of the strong downsides of a younger Submissive like Emilia over an older Independent like Rosamund.
If you get into a long-term OLTR with a younger woman, a little Disney would have to be part of the program. So would I actually legally marry her? I'd rather not, but for the sake of the story lets say that I do, since it's certainly possible.
We get engaged and she changes her Facebook status to "Engaged" and all of her girlfriends are so excited they go into premature ovulation (or gnash their teeth in angry jealousy). She might even demonstrate a little cockiness..."Of all the women, I'm the one who finally snagged Blackdragon! Tee hee!" She invites 400 people to the wedding. I invite about 12. (And even then that's about six more than I want.)
At my insistence we make sure to schedule the wedding a full year into the future. My sweet sexy little Emilia readily agrees...she's so happy I actually agreed to get married she'll agree to anything I say at this point. As soon as we pick the date, I immediately take her down to the lawyers' office and we sign the prenuptial agreement. I know that the further in advance I can get her to sign it, the stronger it will legally be.
I hire a judge to sit there and witness the signing, and he also explains to her every part of the agreement so that later she can't come back and say that she "didn't understand what she was signing". It also clearly states in the prenup that this is an open marriage, and I can fuck any women on the side I want, and she can fuck any men on the side she wants. There's complete, total transparency and zero deception. She knows exactly what she's getting into. I want her to know what she's getting into, since if I hide things or trick her at this point, I'm in for serious drama down the road and I don't want that. (So many men don't understand that basic concept!)
She signs it, I sign it, and the judge signs it as a witness.
Over the next year we live together, and I continue to fuck other women on the side, strongly reinforcing our serious-but-open frame and EFA, and showing her, verbally and nonverbally, that once we get married, nothing will change. I will still be fucking other women, forever, and all of our finances will remain separate. She also knows very well that if after the wedding she changes her mind and suddenly wants to be monogamous, she'll have only one option: walk out the door and get a divorce (and receive none of my money since she signed the prenup), since I will never be monogamous. Ever. Even if that means I lose her.
She has a full year to make sure this is what she wants; she's more than welcome to break up with me at any time and move out if she decides this is not the kind of life she wants.
We have no major problems. After about a year, we get married, have a big fancy girly Disney wedding (which I hate and want to get over with as soon as possible). Then we have a romantic honeymoon somewhere in the Caribbean, probably in Saint Martin. Hopefully Emilia and I have some fun threesomes while we're there, though that would damage some of her Disney, so that's unlikely. After a week or so we return home and start our new OLTR married life together.
Other Women On The Side
Emilia and I have sex at least four days a week, perhaps even every day. However over time this starts to wane. It's a normal and natural thing when you're married, even if it's an open marriage. But that's just it! It's an open OLTR marriage. So the entire time all of this is going on, I continue fuck women on the side. However, I do it very differently than the way I do it now.
When Emilia and I were first dating as MLTRs, I was dating other MLTRs as well. However as soon as she became my OLTR and we moved in together, I instantly either nexted my MLTRs or downgraded them to FBs. Some of these women went along with the program, some women got pissed and nexted me or LSNFTEd me.
That's fine, since I need to cut way back on the amount of women I'm seeing anyway. When Emilia was one of my MLTRs, I was seeing three different women regularly and two sporadically. That's four women outside of Emilia. That's just fine for an MLTR, but too many to manage in a live-in OLTR. So as soon as Emilia becomes my OLTR, I instantly next two of these four side-women (or let them next me), leaving the two women who I know are going to be the least jealous, have the least drama, and be the most discreet.
I then proceed to fuck my two FBs-on-the-side sporadically and infrequently after Emilia moves in with me. I do not stop fucking other women when I move in with or marry Emilia. I don't even "take a break" from other women when I move in with or marry Emilia. No, no, no! (This is another huge mistake guys make when they get "serious" with a woman.) I know that doing that would severely damage my poly frame with my new wifey which would cause serious drama and problems with her down the road. I need to be consistent and congruent at all times.
I love my Emilia, I am devoted to Emilia heart and soul and mind, but my cock is always going to be fucking other women, at least occasionally. As always, I need to be consistent, both for my own happiness and so Emilia always knows 100% exactly what kind of relationship/marriage she has.
Who would I fuck on the side? Well, Emilia is a nice, clean-cut girl, and human beings always start to crave what they don't get. That means occasionally I'll have to get my freak nasty on, so one of my two FBs-on-the-side would be Kat Dennings.
Aw yeah. She'd be down for all that freaky nasty shit my goody-two-shoes wife might be uncomfortable with. Plus Kat has huge tits, and though Emilia has nice tits, she doesn't have big tits, and I know that Kat would more than satisfy my big-tit cravings. Kat thinks things like having boyfriends is stupid, so she'd be perfectly happy with some fun sex with zero Disney. In other words, she'd make a perfect FB on the side. I could fuck her as a side-woman for a very, very long time.
My second FB would be none other than the best looking celebrity woman on the planet, Sofia Vergara, who would also make a perfect FB on the side, though in a very different way from Kat.
See, Sofia is beautiful and fun, but she's also a strong, Dominant, Latina, high-drama, over-30, ball-buster who loves dating and marrying beta males. So what would happen is Sofia would fuck me on the side while cheating on whichever beta male she'd happen to be married to at the time. As a result, Sofia would not be a consistent FB like Kat would be, which would be fine. Sometimes Sofia would be in NRE with some new beta, or be in Try To Make It Work™ mode, and during those times she would avoid me. She wouldn't even answer my texts.
But other times she'd be in boredom or frustration modes, having been with her beta for too long, and that's when she'd cheat. Because she'd already be "with someone", I wouldn't have to worry about her muscling in on my marriage with Emilia.
Of course the perfect situation would be that Sofia has an open marriage herself, being married to a beta provider AFC she can boss around while getting her sexual desires met by an Alpha like me. However, that's fantasy...almost an Alpha version of Disney, and we can't rely on Disney if we want long-term happiness, since Disney doesn't exist.
No, we have to plan things based on how things work in real life, even if unpleasant or sub-optimal. In real life, over-30 Dominants like Sofia don't do open relationships...they find them offensive. Instead, they just cheat on guys, dump guys, and divorce guys. In all three cases I benefit, since this dynamic provides me a never-ending supply of FB side-women. (See why being a beta male is such a shitty deal these days?)
Another great thing about this entire setup is Emilia would not be threatened by me fucking either Kat or Sofia because of their respective situations. Would Emilia be jealous sometimes? Yes. As a matter of fact, as a younger more Disney-bound woman, she'd likely be more jealous than Rosamund would have been. As I said before, this would be one of Emilia's strong disadvantages.
Jealous, perhaps, but would she feel threatened? No. I'd be living with her, financially supporting her, not Kat or Sofia. I'd be introducing her as my wife, not Kat or Sofia. I'd love her, strongly, not Kat or Sofia, and she'd know it. She'd know that I would never leave her for crazy Kat or bitchy Sofia, which I wouldn't. In the past I've replicated this situation (as much as possible) in some of my more serious MLTRs and this almost always ends up being the case. Jealous, perhaps. Threatened, no.
Of course, neither Kat or Sofia would last forever. Eventually they'd get boyfriends or husbands or get bored or frustrated with me, or something, and I'd have to go find some new FBs. No problem. Using online game, social circle game, and perhaps even a little daygame, using pickup skills I mastered long ago, I'd go into very brief sarging-mode and go get one or two new FBs to replace them. Just one or two, no more. At all times I'd have my sweet Emilia plus one or two ever-rotating FBs on the side.
Now lets switch things around. Emilia is able to fuck men on the side. Would she?
At first, no. Her actually fucking other guys on the side would damage her Disney fantasies during our move-in and marriage, even considering she was well aware I was discreetly fucking women on the side. But she's a woman, and women hate monogamy just as much as men do, so eventually she'd break down and go get laid, especially considering that I would tell her it would be okay.
Hey, fair is fair, but more importantly I don't want to spend the rest of my life babysitting my wife to make sure she doesn't fuck other guys. I can think of very few things that would be a bigger waste of my emotions and valuable time. I have better things to do.
So who would Emilia eventually go play with? Once again, in terms of sex and relationships, people tend to start to crave that which they don't have. I'm a smart, strong, dominant, slightly chubby, older Alpha Male. That means she would likely want to fuck a hot, younger, ripped, pussy beta male. Taylor Lautner would fit the bill nicely.
Yep, Taylor would be everything I am not. Oh, Emilia would have some serious fun with him...
...until he started getting oneitis and needy with her. Sadly, men are much more needy and territorial than women. One of the challenges of our OLTR marriage would be that women I fuck would be cool with it, but men Emilia fucked would not. Most of these men would very quickly fall head-over-heels in love with Emilia and start pressuring her hard to divorce me and marry them. It's how men are these days. It's normal and it happens in my MLTRs all the time.
Fortunately, Emilia would be ready for this, since I would coach her on how to prepare and handle it well in advance. The first few times she did it, she would stumble a bit and make mistakes. I'd be always there to help her out and support her, and over time Emilia would get very good at sternly setting proper EFAs with side-men and nexting them as appropriate.
Also, another huge advantage to OLTR over TMM that most people forget about, is that since I knew Emilia would be occasionally out there fucking other dudes, most of them likely better looking than me, I would go out of my way to be the very best husband to her I could possibly be, in order to constantly demonstrate to her that I'm better for her than all these six-pack-betas. Whereas if we had a typical monogamous marriage, I'd eventually start taking her for granted, gaining weight, being lazy, and not giving a shit. Our OLTR marriage would always be vibrant, because unlike in monogamy we would have real reasons to keep it that way.
Because I married Emilia and not Rosamund, I'd have to have more kids. With Rosamund, or some other woman who already had kids, I wouldn't have to worry about this. But with younger gals like Emilia, kids would be an expected part of the deal. You're an idiot if you marry a young woman with no kids and never expect her to eventually want some. Some men fall for this and it's stupid. I don't care if she says she "doesn't ever want kids". That means she doesn't want kids right now. She will later, trust me. It's biological and outside of her control.
My general opinion about kids at this point in my life is that I don't need to have any more. I'm 40 years old and already have had two kids, so if I never have any more kids, that's totally fine with me. As a matter of fact, that might be preferable. However I love children, love babies, and I'm a healthy, youthful, high-energy man with good longevity genes. So I would certainly be open to the concept of having more kiddies if the situation was right, especially now that my two current kids are both teenagers or older (they grow up so fast! sniff, sniff!).
Initially, Emilia would have an IUD or get regular depo shots for birth control during our marriage. However she would, of course, beg me for some babies. I would love her more than anything so I know she'd eventually talk me into it. So here's exactly how this would work in our OLTR marriage.
The first thing I'd do is consult the child support laws in my state (or country) and come up with exact amounts I'd have to pay in child support if we ever got divorced. I'd want to make sure I could afford it and that it would integrate well into my long-term financial plan over the next 18 years (because that's how long you have to pay child support guys!). Prenups do not eliminate child support, so I'd have to plan this expense in advance and make sure I could handle it.
(If I determined that I could not afford this child support, or didn't want to afford it, I would have never married Emilia in the first place. I would have gone with Rosamund.)
Next, before anyone got pregnant and before we went off the birth control, Emilia and I would head down to the attorney's office again and we'd sign and file a parenting plan, which would be witnessed by a judge (or a notary) just like the prenup. That way, if we ever got divorced, issues like custody and visitation would (mostly) already be covered, and we wouldn't have to fight about it. Sweet.
I would also make it very clear to Emilia that I'm not having kids because I want more kids. No, I'm having these kids because I love her and I'm doing this for her. That means the vast majority of the child-raising work, from changing diapers to helping kids with their homework to driving to soccer practice, will be her responsibility, not mine.
Now don't be stupid. I'm not saying I'll never help. Of course I will help a huge amount every day. I'm just saying that when that baby is screaming at 2am in the morning, they'll be none of this "It's your turn!" shit like in the movies. Nope, SHE will have to get her ass up out of bed and deal with it. Not me. I have to get up for work the next morning, and again, she's the one who wanted that screaming baby...I was totally fine not having any more kids.
The good news is that I will financially support 100% of all the costs of raising the kids as long as Emilia stays with me, and Emilia can stop working, come home, and be a full-time mom whenever she wants, for as long as she likes. There are a hell of a lot of mothers out there who don't have that option at all (which is their fault, since they voluntarily chose to marry low-income men).
What if she hates that deal and gets pissed about it? Then she would have never married me in the first place, because the topic of children is something we would have discussed in detail well in advance, before even moving in together.
What if she initially says she's cool with it, then changes her mind about it after the marriage? No problem. She can move out, divorce me, get nothing, and go marry someone else. I'll go right back to my MLTR lifestyle without missing a beat. No prob, Sweetie. In an OLTR marriage you are completely protected from TMM's greatest threat: Women suddenly changing their minds about huge life decisions.
Once we had everything signed and agreed to, she'd go off the birth control, and get preggo very fast. Her eager young body would be dying to get pregnant and I have high testosterone with a healthy sperm count. Nine months later, out would pop my baby badass son, Tyrus:
Of course, women are biologically wired to want two kids, so one would not be enough. As I slowly raised Tyrus to be an Alpha, a year or two later we'd have our second child, future supermodel Cassiopeia:
It would be her choice of course, but with two beautiful babies under her belt and a happy marriage to a man she loves, likely she'd do it. Yay! No more birth control!
Let me reiterate that throughout this entire time, I would still occasionally be having sex on the side with Kat and Sofia (or their replacements). Emilia would very likely stop all side-sexual activity with her six-pack-betas as soon as she got pregnant, and likely would not resume until Cassiopeia was about two years old, or older. Women have a tendency to shut down the sexual stuff when they're in baby-mommy mode...women just don't feel sexy during these times. As always, she can fuck other people on the side or not, her choice.
But I'm likely going to be very consistent with the side-women. My horniness doesn't decrease just because my wife is pregnant or because I suddenly have little babies. Nope. I'm a man and an Alpha. We're pretty static about that.
Happily Ever After?
Some people say to me "Well, yeah, the failure rate for monogamy is very high, but that doesn't mean an OLTR marriage would last forever either."
Guess what? They're absolutely right. Unless both people are over the age of 60 or so, an OLTR marriage will probably not last forever. ALL RELATIONSHIPS ARE TEMPORARY. Even realistic, well-structured, low-drama, happy relationships like OLTRs will likely come to an end someday. Human beings just don't like being with the same person for 30 or 40 years straight. It's a harsh reality that societally-brainwashed monogamous people are really, really wrestling with right now.
Could Emilia and I stay together forever? Well, it's possible, sure. Being a highly compatible couple avoiding all the negatives, drama, and limitations of monogamy would certainly boost our chances. But still, in all likelihood, the OLTR marriage would eventually come to an end. My goal would be for my OLTR marriage to last at least 15 years. Anything beyond that I would consider a bonus. It could be forever, but for the sake of the story let's be realistic and say that after being in OLTR married bliss for 20 years, Emilia decides to call it quits. Yes, it would be Emilia who would initiate the divorce, not me, because that's what women do (82% of the time to be exact).
Why would she divorce me? I'm a great guy! Well, she's a woman, so the possible reasons are infinite...
- Maybe she just got bored with me.
- Maybe she fell in love with one of her side-betas.
- Maybe she changed her mind one day and suddenly wanted a monogamous relationship, and when she demanded one from me I of course said no.
- Maybe she suddenly woke up one morning and decided she wanted to move back to England to be closer to her sister or something, and I didn't want to go.
- Maybe she changed her mind about the two-kids thing and wanted more children and I said no. Maybe she just fell out of love.
- Maybe she went through premature menopause and went crazy.
- Maybe she became an alcoholic.
- Maybe she found Jesus and became a born-again Christian.
Hell, it could be one of a thousand different reasons, the majority of which would be completely outside of my control, even if I was the perfect husband. Women under age 50 were never designed for long-term pair-bonding so that's just the way it is. The point is, I was never expecting the marriage to last forever, so I'm prepared for any sudden serious change in mind my irrational feminine wife might have.
Let's see. I'd be 60 years old by then, but since I would still be in a constant state of sarging and/or being "on the market" the entire time, I'd still be in pretty good shape and looking very good for 60, like Liam Neeson or David Hasselhoff .
Emilia would be 45, and likely still decently hot. The kids would already be grown and likely be out of the house. Our divorce would be very easy and very amicable. Because of the prenup and the parenting plan already in place, Emilia and I would pretty much just sign one piece of paper, and boom, be divorced. The entire process would take 30 days or less. I would not lose a dime in the divorce, thanks to the prenup. (If the kids were under age 18, I would be paying child support, but I already planned on and budgeted for that, remember?)
If the marriage actually lasted 20 years and Emilia had been a good wife all that time, I likely would give her a hunk of cash out of the goodness of my heart (assuming she needed it), but the point is it would be my choice, not because the government was putting a gun to my head like every other guy who gets divorced. Even if I didn't give her any money, it's not like she's destitute. Over the entire course of the marriage she's had her own money, her own savings, her own investments, and her own retirement, none of which I ever touched (other than possibly to contribute to it!), because it was hers, not "ours".
(Are you seeing the beauty of this yet? See how women also benefit from this?)
The divorce would be very friendly, and after the divorce Emilia and I would still be friends. We might even hook up now and again (as long as she wasn't in temporary NRE with some new boyfriend).
My business and career would not be seriously disrupted in any way. My sex life would not be disrupted in any way, since I'd still be playing with my one or two FBs on the side. My emotional life would be disrupted of course. Divorce is never fun, even prenuped ones. But I'd get over it. Emilia would too. She'd still be a woman, so she'd be able to quickly snag a new guy, and would likely eventually marry some beta male in a mono-marriage.
Once the NRE died down she'd eventually start having massive relationship problems just like everyone else, but that would be her problem. As a matter of fact, several years after her second marriage to Mr. Beta, Emilia and I would be talking on the phone and she'd tell me "I should have listened to you about monogamy." (Oh, if I had a dollar for every time someone told me that!)
Right after the divorce and Emilia moved out, I would go right back to an MLTR lifestyle and keep working on my mission. Perhaps, someday, I might even do another live-in OLTR with another woman. Maybe I'd give Rosamund a call when I turned 75. Or I could do a "Hugh Hefner", pop some Viagra, and move in with some sweet but ditsy young blonde. Or I could just stay in MLTR mode the rest of my life, eventually falling in love with one of them but still keeping her at the MTLR level, which would be fine too.
I'd have many possible enjoyable paths to take, even as a guy in my 60's. Unlike women, us men don't lose most of our options as we age (provided we keep our balls and masculinity intact...being an over-60 beta is not a good place to be.)
I hope this has helped you put into perspective how this would work if you were to do this. If this story has got you thinking more in the direction of an OLTR or OLTR marriage rather than a drama-filled, low-sex, risky, traditional monogamous marriage, then this was worthwhile. I hope I made you think. And feel.
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Snow 2012-09-09 10:17:21
I loved this. I'm going on 22 years old, and I'm still very much enjoying the MLTR/FB lifestyle. But I will definitely consider this relationship as I move forward and potentially get "serious" (i.e. want to have children) with someone in my early 30's.
Superman 2012-09-09 12:46:36
Beautiful post! I like the part how you financially prepared for it before getting involved.
Soul 2012-09-09 14:46:02
BD, Here are some scenarios I'd like you to put yourself in, and tell me how you'd feel and what you'd do. These are real-to-life experiences I've seen happen with other couples in open marriages. (1) She gets pregnant with one of those beta males, she still loves you, but she wants to keep the baby. (2) She falls in love with a younger alpha male type, and wants to have sex with him 100% of the time. But, she still loves you in a platonic way, and wants to stay married for the sake of your children. Furthermore she lets you know that if you divorce, she's going to do everything she can to paint you black in the courts so that she can keep the kids. And, you love those kids. I could go on with other real-life fiascos, especially things that happen to men who aren't as alpha as they think they are.
Blackdragon 2012-09-09 15:11:17
@ Soul - Scenario 1: Not only would that be totally fine, in many cases it would be IDEAL. She could have his baby, there would be a DNA test and his name would be on the birth certificate making him liable for 18 years of child support, not me. This saves me the hassle of child support if my OLTR and I ever get divorced. Nice. Scenario 2: She's welcome to fuck young Alphas, no problem. But if she doesn't want to have sex with me, she's done, relationship over. If there are kids involved, if you read the post, you'll see that her and I already have a parenting plan signed, witnessed, and filed. Every state and country differs on the laws regarding this, but any custody battle would not be nearly as bad as what normally happens in TMM. She can threaten whatever she wants...she signed the parenting plan, and it was witnessed. All angry custody battles are the result of poor planning.
Soul 2012-09-09 22:09:51
BD, It's nice that you'll come out of these situations with your pocketbook intact, and you'll still be able to see your kids. At least, if the courts support your position, which I submit is debatable. But, let's not forget that most young men get married with the goal of raising their own children in their own house together with their wife. You write about this as if it's some sort of video game, where the bullets fly and bombs explode on the screen but nobody really gets hurt.
TM 2012-09-09 22:10:47
Whilst I agree with most of your points BD you'll have to re-evaluate a few things before you speak out your ass. Firstly being a doctor does not automatically make you beta - it is the stereotype attached to being a doctor (i.e. studious, no social skills and being a provider) that makes people think they're beta. A doctor reading and applying your excellent posts will undoubtedly become alpha very quickly with the advantages of being a doctor too. Secondly, I believe you when you claim to have successful businesses and have MLTRs but claims such as having good longevity genes are completely farfetched and cringeworthy to the point of disbelief. Finally, I personally believe you place WAY too much importance on acting alpha and avoiding betaness. Following your definitions, I have been alpha my entire life and I agree that this is far superior to being needy and oneitisy as you describe in your posts. However I think all your readers get the point and are proud of other achievements in life other than being alpha.
Ross 2012-09-09 22:53:31
Beauty. You seem to have a lot of what I call "Fail Safe Systems." No matter what ends up failing in your life you always have a system in that specific area that will supplement your needs .Example: sex, money and freedom.
Blackdragon 2012-09-09 22:54:40
@Soul – As I said in the post, these relationships are not perfect. They have problems. But they are far better than the other option if you add up all the positives and negatives on both sides. If you want a perfect long-term relationship structure with no risk and zero problems, I can’t give it to you. Sorry. @ TM – Your doctor thing is from a different post, but to answer your points, A) I have never said anywhere that being a doctor makes you a beta. (What the hell?) I can only assume you must be a doctor which is why this tiny and irrelevant issue bothers you so much. For the record, being a doctor is cool. Happy? (Edit: I partially mistook you for another commenter who also thinks I hate doctors for some reason. Maybe he's a doctor instead of you. Sorry if you aren't.) B) My longevity genes is a guess based on the following: Both my parents are in their 70’s, still alive, active, and very healthy, and I have two grandparents still alive, in their 90’s, and decently healthy. Could I be wrong about my longevity chances? Sure. But based on the information I have in front of me, my odds look pretty good. C) This is a blog about being Alpha (or at least the 21st century version of such), of which seduction/relationships is a core part. If anything, I will be talking more about the topic of Alpha, not less. (I'm going to publish an entire book on the subject next year.) If that annoys you and you’d rather spend your time reading other blogs on other topics, I understand. By the way, I just checked the site stats, and this post is now the 2nd highest single-day trafficked post in the history of this blog (and the day isn’t even over yet). So clearly this is a topic a lot of people are very interested in, and therefore a topic I’m going to be discussing more of, not less of.
Matt T. 2012-09-10 06:35:19
Best post ever!
DB 2012-09-10 06:37:16
It seems to be BD, that you add in beta where necessary according to your story. It's not like you're all alpha all the time. You describe much beta support in your story with regards to your wife. It's about balance and avoiding oneitis more than being an alpha douche. There's lots of alpha types as you've described. There's douche alpha (I do what I want, when I want, with whom I want, and don't care about other's feelings), needy alpha, and then outcome independent modern alpha who knows when to be the right amount of beta because he still cares about other people. Maybe there are other kinds. I think knowing when your wife actually needs a bit of beta support and when she's just being needy and testing you is a key skill for a modern day alpha to have. One thing I'm not sure on though, is, if that scenario comes up where your wife gets pregnant with another man's child, are you actually staying with her? Who is raising this kid? I would think part of an open relationship is making sure you don't get pregnant or get anybody else pregnant. Safe sex should be one of the fundamental tenants of an open relationship. Her getting pregnant would indicate she hasn't been safe, which might even be a deal breaker for you. Also, as for parenting plans and such. I think you're well aware that these can possibly be nullified if she goes the route where she starts lying about you to try and get the children. It's all up to a judge ultimately. There are no guarantees in life though and it's not like that is any different than a monogamous relationship anyway. Same goes for the prenup. You never know, some judge could probably nullify that too under the right circumstances, but I'm not a lawyer. I imagine the prenup is much more secure than the parenting plan.
Jon 2012-09-10 08:34:53
The story format was a great way to address this issue. I especially liked the part about visiting the attorneys before major life events. I don't know why more lawyers don't pursue that market. The attorney that helped with my divorce suggested counseling if I were to get married again, but never mentioned seeking legal advice.
Alejandro 2012-09-10 09:29:24
There are indeed countries where prenups can be succesfully challenged (UK, for example). But I think in United States it doesnt happen very often. I think improper disclosure of assets by one party can actually get them nullified (I didnt know he was a millionare!) so it may be a good idea to include a section about it somewhere in the prenup. Neverthless, If you live in a country where prenups are easily nullified in court, I guess the best thing is to stay away from legal marriage. Where I come from, even avoiding legal marriage doesnt get you out of trouble. If you live with a women for longer than 2 years, it can be argued that you were legally married (common law marriage) and she gets to keep half of your money after a break up.
Soul 2012-09-10 09:35:37
BD, I agree that nothing in LTR is perfect and there are no guarantees. But in our modern world, here's how I would advise a young man to negotiate the monogamy issue, if he wants to have a stable home and raise a family: (1) I wouldn't demand any promises of monogamy from her, and I wouldn't offer any. But if she asks, then (being the philosophical, long-winded type of guy I am), I would talk about how I understand that she'd feel hurt if I sleep around. But then I'd talk about how feelings change, and also that people make mistakes sometimes, and I wouldn't want our relationship necessarily to fall apart based on a momentary indiscretion. I'd talk about how difficult it is to predict feelings of love for five, ten or twenty years in the future, and point to some examples we know. I'd talk about risks of unwanted pregnancies, and how awkward it could feel to raise another man's child in our household. I can talk for hours while evading any conclusions or commitments. Or depending on my mood, I might joke about how much fun it would be to have a threesome with some dude with a six-pack. (2) As long as she was monogamous with me, I'd return the favor. Tell me why this wouldn't be more stable than keeping multiple outside partners rotating through your bedrooms.
bogspua 2012-09-10 10:11:00
Interesting post, I even saw your book on OLTR, but I don't remember seeing you actually having OLTR (only MLTRs). I guess the question is do you actually have one and have experience to be in one or it is just a concept?
Blackdragon 2012-09-10 10:23:35
@DB – Regarding the other kid thing, there are too many possible variables to give you a straight answer. It would depend on the specifics of the situation. But you bring up a valid point about birth control. Regarding legal challenges, of course this is possible, and as I stated earlier every country and state has different regulations regarding this. Step one would be to thoroughly research how these things are handled in your area before getting married or having babies. @Jon – I’ve often wondered that myself! @Soul – Again, you’re just describing a lower-sex-drive variation of OLTR. If that version works better for you than the above, go for it! Any OLTR is better than Disney monogamy! @bogspua – The above is just a story; I've been married and I've had many MLTRs, some of them very serious, but I currently don’t have a live-in OLTR. However this is not a theoretical concept: I have interviewed many men (and some women) who are doing the above or variations of the above, and I also personally know many couples who have done this, many of them with children. I interviewed over 40 of them for my open marriage ebook alone. (Amazingly, many of these guys are more anti-monogamy than I am, if you can believe it. Once you’ve lived a certain way for a few years, it seems insane to go back to the original inferior system.)
Jack 2012-09-10 14:58:20
BD, I thought you were a Libertarian. A true Libertarian does not believe that the government should be in the sex and relationship business. As such, a true Libertarian would never get married (OLTR or otherwise). Also, in this day and age, living together is just as bad (from a legal standpoint). If you do that, you might as well get married.
susannabrisk 2012-09-10 17:43:32
susannabrisk 2012-09-10 17:49:21
Im typing this on an iPhone which is a nightmare, but I just couldn't resist handing you boys this... http://malibumom.com/2012/09/10/sex-and-the-mind-of-the-married-woman/ Your whole system outlined in this post is really interestit in theory but I could never do it. Those pesky things called "feelings" would just get in the way.
Blackdragon 2012-09-11 09:16:02
@Jack – You’re absolutely right. I have zero desire to get legally married. Again, the above is a story. Regarding living together, in the United States (I can’t speak for other countries) there is indeed a very strong legal difference between getting married and living together non-married, especially if you both sign a cohabitation agreement. @Susanna – Thank you Susanna. And I have this pesky thing called “happiness” that would prevent me from doing it your way.
Soul 2012-09-11 16:07:37
Hey BD, I appreciate that you think what I'm talking about deserves the label of an "open marriage". But I do think there's a significant difference between what you're recommending and what I'm talking about, and it's not just a matter of sex drive. I'm thinking of it as more like the difference between having a car that's capable of driving in the passing lane, vs. deciding to drive on the wrong side of the street all the time, and expecting other cars to swerve out of your way. In other words, just because you're free to do something, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea. We need a different acronym for it, maybe TLTR, for the trust-based aspects. Or BLTR, for brinksmanship. Or DLTR, for staying married one day at a time. Nice to see our friend Malibu Mom. If she's trying to be a poster child for the benefits of monogamy, she's not making such a great impression. If I were married to her in a TLTR, it would certainly be a challenging situation -- but I'd probably take her to some swinger parties and challenge her to deal with the feelings she experiences as I'm fondling other women.
GOB 2012-09-13 07:22:38
My problem is, that even most girls accept open relationship in a level, they can't imagine open marriage. I asked some of my lady friends, who are in there mid-20s, most of them living in realtionships. They are not accepting it( funny thing, that the biggest hater is a girl in a new relationship with a soap-opera looking latino guy ). I'm a marriage type of guy, love big families and I want a bunch of kids. So I would really like an article from you, that shows the girls' advantages. I don't know how to explain, that I don't want to do it, because I'm a pussy-hound, but rather I want to live more happily than the average couples. So basically, how can I show it in the best possible light, when I meet that special lady.
Jon 2012-09-13 08:34:11
@GOB, one huge advantage I see is that she'll never need to worry about her husband making unfortunate shoe choices. Right Susanna? 😉
... you have to face the fact that, as much as you love him, it’s been over a decade and you’re still fucking… This guy. [...] whose shoe of choice on the weekends, against his better instincts, is Crocs.He must have started wearing them after the kids, becuase from what I understand Crocs are a 100% effective form of birth control.
JJ 2012-11-26 12:26:07
What are the reasons this setup would work better than your past marriage? A better way of asking this question might be: Why did your last marriage fail? I know you could probably write a shit-ton in your answer, but I'm trying to determine what is at the root that makes this a more preferable system for long-term happiness (15-20 years as compared to say 5-10 for a monogamous relationship with children). Personally, as of right now I don't really care about fucking other women because sex without feelings doesn't get me off much (who knows if I would want other girls on the side years into marriage, but as of now, I don't). However, I want to put into place the best system for prolonging the relationship with the girl I really care about. Thus, I would consider a set-up like this for the sake of preserving the relationship. How long do you think a 'monogamous' relationship would last with you doing everything as described above except, of course, not banging other girls? Again, if the number is smaller than 15, what do you think is the reason for this? You wrote: "Whereas if we had a typical monogamous marriage, I’d eventually start taking her for granted, gaining weight, being lazy, and not giving a shit." Why would you not take her for granted in an OLTR? I think you (and me) would still be subject to taking her for granted due to the way people behave over time. Thanks.
Blackdragon 2012-11-26 13:00:57
What are the reasons this setup would work better than your past marriage? A better way of asking this question might be: Why did your last marriage fail?1. Too often I wanted to have sex and she said no. 2. She went through premature menopause, went crazy, and became angry and even a little violent.
How long do you think a ‘monogamous’ relationship would last with you doing everything as described above except, of course, not banging other girls? Again, if the number is smaller than 15, what do you think is the reason for this?If you're a man with a normal or high sex drive, it wouldn't last very long at all, because at about the three-year mark (or sooner) your monogamous wife would start refusing sex from you, and eventually you'd either leave her or go cheat. One of the many beauties of OLTR is that it's possible to stay with a woman you love even if you aren't having sex with her. (Not ideal of course, but possible.) This is impossible in a monogamous relationship, since a man needs to fuck somebody. The exception to this rule is if you have an extremely low sex drive and don't care, but that doesn't describe most men.
JJ 2012-11-27 13:18:42
Thanks for the reply.
Durdy Burdy 2012-12-10 05:57:16
i don't even know how i found this page, but i found it. this was interesting: "If you’re a man with a normal or high sex drive, it wouldn’t last very long at all, because at about the three-year mark (or sooner) your monogamous wife would start refusing sex from you, and eventually you’d either leave her or go cheat." i found this "interesting" because it's the complete opposite of my own experience -- ironically, for reasons you yourself have stated. see, we men like variety a lot more than women do, so it stands to reason that, in a monogamous relationship, we are the ones who should be getting, well, less entranced by sex over time. and, lo and behold, that's exactly what happened in both of my previous ltr's that lasted over three years, and, now, is happening in my current marriage (no complaints, my current marriage is way more awesome than i had really thought possible). i'm the one who is basically like "la la la", and it's my wife who has to go the extra mile -- whether dressing up to my specs, or cleaning up my messes, or whatever -- before i get about that. in my case, this is probably a genuine mellowing out of the high-testosterone discontent that plagued my twenties. believe me, this is not a bad thing -- once upon a time, i had plenty of what you call "mltr's", but they came with pretty bad side effects ... stalkers, arrests for fake "domestic" battery, oh the stories i could tell. now, i really don't give a s**t unless wifey tries. if anything happens with another woman, it's going to be wifey's initiative; i'm certainly not going out of my way. judging from your previous post, you will probably label me as someone who "ha[s] an extremely low sex drive and do[es]n’t care". and, you know, you might even be right. i prefer to see it as a "channeling" thing -- bam! i suddenly have so much more passion and focus for hobbies, arts, business ventures, you name it -- with all that energy that i expended on fucking and managing girls 10-15 years ago. it just got to a point where the "managing" (which is most of it -- anyone who doesn't agree that the ratio of micromanagement:sex is like 10:1 in these situations has probably never experienced them) just wasn't worth it anymore. perhaps ironically, that happened at exactly the time when the pick-up part had become essentially effortless. but, think about it -- at the end of the day, that's what translates into sexual power in the relationship. whoever wants it less, holds the key. finally, if you are still rarin' for threesomes and the like, you seem to be totally neglecting the potential inherent in bringing your own wife/gf/whatever into the mix. it's weird how you've stated things in terms of completely separate play (she goes off and screws younger things, you go off and ... etc). huh? dude, do you not know how women interact with other women? do you not know the irresistible appeal that a threesome would hold for your wife if she helped you dominate the other girl? e.g., nothing in the pussy for her; that's for your marriage. the other girl is only good for her ass and her mouth, and your wife is the one who gets to enforce that. that's pure chick crack. just choose the "third" wisely, because there are some insane bitches out there. in any case, it seems you've learned a certain amount about these dynamics but are weirdly blind to women's ways when it comes to power. basically, they want to be controlled, by you, while exercising control over others (especially other women); it's the natural order of things. your proposal (in which she gets with younger men by herself) makes sense in a fictional world, but, in an actual male-dominated household, it's not something that she will want to do. for what she would want to do, well, see above. and, one more promise: just when you have all this s**t down cold, you'll suddenly find that you can't be bothered. and then you'll learn what it's like to really be in control of a relationship. as long as you're the one with the higher sex drive, you're the underdog, kid. sorry, but that's the breaks.
maldek 2013-02-24 11:48:15
The post is very well thought out and it describes your model in great detail. Let me give you some ideas what I did in my life and what was the result that I consider a working model for the future. Back in the day b4 we had smartphones or even cell phones and I was in my early 20s I met Mrs Maldek. We were both at the university at that time, I as a junior (because I was in the military for a while) and she about to graduate and start her PHD. She was 7.5, with some minor effort an 8. After ~4 years she finished her PHD and got her first real job (well paid one) in a major city. At this point our relationship was not good. Sex had declined and we lived like 2 aldults, side-by-side but not together. Despite all this we moved in our first condo. During the next 2 years the situation got worse. (sound familiar Blackdragon?) She would have her career and I in the meantime had quit studies and started to work in dot.com land. We are talking about end 90s here. She had just crossed the "rubicon of 30" and now really wanted a baby. After the choice on my part "no baby, no girl" or kids, I decided to have kids. **Please note that I suggest to have a relationship for at least 5 years before it is adviced to have kids.** We each had our own agendas. We each earned money. Sex life had started to suck. Day-to-day life was reduced to weekends and evenings bars. So far everything was well on track to disaster. The child was the perfect opportunity for change. I said yes to the baby - she said yes to my terms. Child yes but no marriage. She had to quit her job (we negotiated a golden handshake) and focus on raising the kids - plural. Her primary goal in life from this point forward was to support ME. I started to work from home office. She handeled the kids and the household so I was able to focus on my work. Soon our first born had a sister. Our former seperated bill-paying became "our" bills, that I would pay for. We became a team. Like a well oiled, running machine we would work on a common goal. Each one of us had (and has) his responsibilities. Our lifes improved. Big time. Sex life improved - became better than it had been in the beginning even. ** Please note that I suggest to marry only after the first kid is at least 3 years old, because these years may change a lot in terms of sex and wifes-looks.** She does not like it when I have other women but she has not too much choice eighter. We live an international lifestyle and my assets are protected in off-shore corporations. Nothing a judge could touch. What she often says (she is still 7-7.5 easily, despite our 3 kids and her age 40+) is: Her greatest fear is not that I sleep with younger women but that I stop sleeping with her. It goes without saying (for me) that I would never tolerate an overweight or lazy landwhale in my house. After she did her job well for over 15 years and kept her same weight during the whole time I finaly gave her the wedding she deserved and I knew she always wanted. It is my believe that most problems in relationships (low sex frequency, demanding wifes, wife becoming unattractive etc) have one common source: No consequences. If a wife becomes fat and ugly, it must have a negative impact on her life. As long as nanny state and society will cushion her, she has not much to fear. If on the other hand you did build something together over the years, she will not want to loose it to a young and prettier face. She knows the competition is out there so she will try harder. Always on her toes. Always challenged. Thanks for reading and I hope it will help at least one person setting up a working relationship.
Anonymous 2014-01-07 10:18:05
Unless I missed it, never once do you mention if your "wife" is allowed to fuck other men, a real open marriage means that both partners can have have intimate relationships outside the "marriage"
Blackdragon 2014-01-07 10:37:47
I don't think you read the post. I have an entire section in there about how my OLTR wife would be fucking other men on the side (like Taylor Lautner). Yes, both man and wife should be allowed to play around.
Royce 2014-08-22 17:42:47
Here's the problem I have with the open marriage lifestyle: Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs). 30 or 40 years ago I can see it working better - but STDs have exploded in the western world. The odds of getting: Herpes Simplex 1(HSV1); Herpes Simplex 2(HSV1); Chlamydia; Gonorrhoea; Syphilis etc. are extremely high. Now you may say that you can simply get cured of some of them and the others don't matter but it is not as simple as that - for instance what was considered to be a benign issue of HSV1 turns out to be probably the main cause of Alzheimer's, HSV2 can be extremely unpleasant to live with and cause goodness knows what (nobody is sure) and some types of Gonorrhoea are very close to becoming UNTREATABLE. If you are having sex with multiple women who are all also having sex with goodness knows who and whose judgement may well be much poorer than your own your chances of getting an STD from them is exponentially higher - and you may be asymptomatic so you are being damaged without even knowing it ! I am not trying to knock the lifestyle, I have no issue with it on moral grounds - I just don't see how you get round this problem. Note: For those that think that they can protect themselves with condoms - you are wrong - they can definitely strongly reduce the chances of infection per sexual encounter, but the idea that you get full protection or anything remotely close to it is bullshit.
Blackdragon 2014-08-23 11:30:10
Go here and read excuse number 2. I've been having sex with numerous women for years and years, and my usual STD test just came back clean. It's true there's never 100% protection against anything. I've addressed that here. Also remember the HSV-1 and HPV are not true STDs, and likely you're infected with those already (along with most of the rest of the population) even if you have no symptoms. So your concerns are mostly in your head, not in reality.
Royce 2014-08-23 18:35:14
Here's the problem, I read your view on condoms, but condoms are really not a particularly effective barrier - that is PC misinformation from the media, they work MOST of the time in protecting you but not all the time - I wish they did. I would, however, accept that you may argue it is a risk worth taking for your lifestyle - and that's fair enough. As for HSV1, well 2/3 of people in the USA probably have it and if you have it I figure it doesn't matter - if you've been active in the USA for a long time with multiple people it is pretty much inevitable. The facts are though that HSV1 is now strongly connected with Alzheimer's (60% of cases according to recent research estimates) and some genetic types are far more vulnerable than others so if you don't already have it then that is a judgement call a person has to make. I would suggest one finds out all this individual risk information depending on your personal type from a doctor. HSV2 (which condoms do not protect well against, like HSV1) of course is not nearly as common. If you sleep around a lot you'll probably get it and some people have truly appalling and regular symptoms. So in short what I am saying is people need to be informed and make their own judgement - the risks are significant and as more STD's over time become untreatable (which IS happening) those risks are rising. Everybody individual has to decide what risk they are comfortable with.
Blackdragon 2014-08-23 19:49:51
I read your view on condoms, but condoms are really not a particularly effective barrierHow do you explain my real-world results then? They've worked for me, consistently and reliably. You're way too scared about this.
Royce 2014-08-24 07:14:01
I agree that it's worked for you very well so far - and you are obviously asymptomatic on HSV (as I admit most people are), which is excellent for you, the only thing I would add is that you are a test case of only 1 - maybe to date you have just been lucky - or maybe you are subconsciously finding people who limit your risk, I don't know. As for Alzheimer's, I think we need to keep monitoring the research, thinks are starting to be discovered about this mysterious disease and its increasing prevalence. I really am not saying people shouldn't adopt your lifestyle, I am just saying that they should make sure they are fully informed about the risks going in. We evaluate the risks a little differently but it is I think good to hear different opinions and I thank you very much for allowing me to give my view. I will continue to enjoy reading your Blog as it is one of the most interesting ones there is and offers a lot of great information and insights. Thanks.
Evan 2014-09-05 02:42:48
Hi BD, imagine a genie grants you the wish of being 27 again... You are getting good results with your own online business and you do not have to work, have no children, are not married (Yes!), are PUA, have a beautiful 24 years old girlfriend you love (you have been together over 5 years), you are monogamous for now, but you can be non-monogamous the day you want, you have close friends, live alone, and have a lifetime ahead... How would you choose to structure your life?
Blackdragon 2014-09-05 09:48:57
You are getting good results with your own online business and you do not have to work, have no children, are not married (Yes!), are PUA, have a beautiful 24 years old girlfriend you love (you have been together over 5 years), you are monogamous for now, but you can be non-monogamous the day you want, you have close friends, live alone, and have a lifetime ahead... How would you choose to structure your life?1. I would never, ever be 100% monogamous to anyone. So woman has the right to tell me what I do with my body. So that part would never happen. 2. Personally, I would keep her as an OLTR, have sex with FBs on the side sporadically, focus on my Mission, never get legally married, and delay having kids until I was 45 years old.
Evan 2014-09-05 15:25:03
BUT how do you would solve the fact that she will want to have children at age 28-30 years? You would only have 31-33
Blackdragon 2014-09-05 16:12:47
That's her problem, not yours. An Alpha with big dreams should delay having kids for as long as humanly possible as I've shown before. So either you sacrifice that for her, or tell her it's not going to happen until you're much older (and find someone else if she hates that). The choice is yours.
Susan Di Santo 2015-05-03 08:02:05
Comment deleted for violation of Rule Number 5.
Lex 2016-06-05 01:19:52
Comment deleted for violation of Rule Number 1.
Mike Hunter 2017-03-20 21:10:31
Most of these men would very quickly fall head-over-heels in love with Emilia and start pressuring her hard to divorce me and marry them. It’s how men are these days. It’s normal and it happens in my MLTRs all the time. Fortunately, Emilia would be ready for this, since I would coach her on how to prepare and handle it well in advance. The first few times she did it, she would stumble a bit and make mistakes. I’d be always there to help her out and support her, and over time Emilia would get very good at sternly setting proper EFAs with side-men and nexting them as appropriate.Have you written anywhere about how to do this? I've gotten my lunch stolen twice this way. Both in MLTR relationships. I'd prefer that it didn't happen again. I'm fine with a woman breaking up with me because I don't give her what she wants. Then finding someone else. But a woman dating another guy, lying to me about how serious it is, and then suddenly branch swinging while we're still dating has fucked with my head pretty badly. The first instance was a LSNFTE so I guess there was no way to avoid that. But the second time she was married and cheating on me with her husband. She ghosted me for her married boss who was pressuring her to stop sleeping with me. I haven't tried to get her back. Is there a way I could have prepped her ahead of time to have reduced the chances of that happening?
Blackdragon 2017-03-20 21:30:14
Have you written anywhere about how to do this?No. I have something planned for later this year though.
The first instance was a LSNFTE so I guess there was no way to avoid that.Correct. You can't avoid LSNFTEs with FB's or MLTR's. You have to just plan for them and expect them.
But the second time she was married and cheating on me with her husband. She ghosted me for her married boss who was pressuring her to stop sleeping with me. I haven’t tried to get her back. Is there a way I could have prepped her ahead of time to have reduced the chances of that happening?Dude. She was married. No. If you want consistent relationships, stop it with the married chicks.
CC 2017-04-14 14:20:56
Hello! I know this is five years after the fact, but here it goes... BD, what do you think of this situation?: I've been in a non-live-in monogamous relationship with my boyfriend for 15 years, we're high school sweethearts and just turned 30 both of us. A few years ago I suggested we change it to an open relationship, not because I want other men, but because I want him to get other women on the side. The reason for this isn't all that clear even to me, other than I know that it's something that sort of obsessess me and that I really want him to develop his latent Alpha self. Back then it was just a fun concept to joke about, but ever since he knows that he can get other girls if he wants to, only he hasn't really been successful in it. I even paid a prostitute for him, a bit to prove I'm serious about being ok with this, and a bit to encourage him to have other experiences (since I'd been the only sexual partner he'd ever had). Do you have any insights? I truly believe that sex should be regarded with as little emotional investment as cooking: you can certainly derive pleasure from receiving the efforts from it from your partner or from giving such efforts, but there's no reason to get mad if you or your partner enjoy someone else's cooking, be it a paid or not "someone else". Am I making sense? Well, maybe I'm coming off needy as is, I just want to put this out there to check if it's really something that will benefit my BF and our relationship. TIA
Procer Sapientiae 2017-05-11 11:57:16
@CC You're man needs to put in the time himself to find his inner Alpha, in some ways it can be just as futile to transform a Beta into an Alpha 2.0, as it is trying to get a woman to transform into a true independent, unless they really want that level of happiness and freedom for themselves. If he actually wants this, encourage him to put in the time, figure out how to navigate online dating, have successful dates, manage multiple relationships, and develop his confidence and outcome independence. All of these things can be learned, they may not click right away, but they can be learned. While I don't agree with 100% of BD's blog and views, he's about as close as you can get to the empirical/practical western reality of non-monogamy.
Your Self Worth – An Asian American Male Perspective – Asian Masculinity for Nerds 2018-02-10 15:22:39
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Fibonacci 2018-09-01 13:59:05
Seriously, this read was life-changing, and a lot of my anxt about future of "when i go old" has been reduced. THANK YOU. Haven't thought about OLTR even being a possibility. The monogamy marriage I have always seen as "what will eventually happen anyway" and being a little afraid of that time (50-70) where i would likely be divorced and have a bad time, not being able to pickup girls anymore. But this sounds actually achievable, especially if i spend the next 10-15 years doing MLTRs, FBs and possible OLTR. Perfecting my nonmmonogamous skills, women skills, pickupskills. Instead of having "breaks" during standard monogamy. Loosing outcome dependancy, pickup-skills, Alpha-frame. I think my business goals are also far more likely to be achieved in a nonmonogamous lifestyle, than if i go monogamous and get betaized, oneitisy, and distracted from a woman taking over my life. I am 25, 3 years in pickup with 20 lays, before that an unsexed beta. Only thing... I have NEVER been in a monogamous relationship. My first MLTR just fell apart after 6 months, and had a FB and ONS during this time, loved it, THANKS AGAIN. But I feel like i need to experience monogamy to be able to completely discard it from my brain as a bad idea? I feel like it is harder to create a nonmonogammous lifestyle (OLTR marriage included) If i havent ever experienced monogamy. Will this not be something women push for / feel my frame is off? Since im not, like you, ENTIRELY convinced that monogamy is shit. How to solve this?