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Why We Insist On Making First Dates Awkward
I usually like OKTrends, the OKCupid blog. There's actually some pretty good statistical data over there. The challenge with over-analytical endeavors like that is that it's easy to overdo it and go into insane mode. There's an article right here that one of my gals made me aware of recently. It shows how society actually tries to make first dates awkward and complicated and, knowingly or unknowingly, tries to ensue that you don't get laid...on a first date, or a second date, or a third, or beyond. It's called "Best Questions For A First Date", and boy is it fucked up.
-By Caleb Jones
First dates are awkward. There is so much you want to know about the person across the table from you, and yet so little you can directly ask.
First of all, first dates are not awkward. First dates are actually one of my most calming activities. Chilling at a fancy quiet bar, asking a woman a few questions, then kicking back and tuning out as she talks for an hour is actually quite relaxing. Especially if she's pretty and/or has a pleasant voice. The presence of an attractive woman is quite soothing to a marauding manly beast. Just like Anakin told Padme.
After reading the above paragraph, you might be thinking I'm making a joke. I'm not. I'm being 100% serious.
First dates are only awkward if you make them awkward. Of course most people think they're awkward because Societal Programming, including OKCupid, constantly tells people "First dates are awkward."
Secondly, there is no such thing as "something you shouldn't ask" on a first date. There is only asking questions too soon or in an awkward fashion.
Getting to sexual talk is one of my core concepts for first dates. By the end of most of my first dates, I have women talking about men cumming inside them or the do's and don'ts of blowjobs. This goes for the 19 year-old girls all the way to the 45 year-old corporate vice presidents with masters degrees (back when I used to cold approach women over age 33, that is).
That doesn't mean at the start of the date I sit down and say "So, do you like to suck cock?" Uh, no. As I've talked about before, I start off with simple topics, then quickly segue the conversation into relationships and then sex. Men don't realize that women LOVE talking about sex...sometimes even as much as actually having sex. And of course Societal Programming does its best to reinforce the falsehood that women are "ladies" who don't talk about "that kind of stuff" on a first date. Bull. Shit. The number of first dates I've been on is well into the triple digits, and women are talking explicit sex with me by the end of the date damn near every time. (Remember also that I limit my first dates to one hour. So it's not like it takes a long time for them to open up about this. Women love talking about sex.)
Because of its completely false premise, the article goes on to explain how you can ask "safe" and "acceptable" and "appropriate" questions that will somehow magically give you a glimpse into the deeper soul of your first date companion.
For example, if you want to know if the person will have sex on the first date, just ask him/her if they like the taste of beer. Because, according to OKTrend's data:
Among all our casual topics, whether someone likes the taste of beer is the single best predictor of if he or she has sex on the first date.
Look, as any longtime reader knows, I'm a big fan of statistical data. But Jesus, maybe OKTrends needs to read up on the whole correlation vs. causation thing.
Want to know if that hot gal will be a good long-term match for you? Don't ask her about her past relationships or about sex! Oh no! That's "not appropriate" for a first date! Instead OKTrends recommends you should ask her if she likes horror movies. I'm serious. That's what it recommends. Go read it if you don't believe me.
This is a core component of the Societal Programming around dating. That somewhere is a master list of Rules For Dating Appropriateness set down by God himself and etched in iron, and that you have to Be A Gentleman™ and do your best to tiptoe around these rules in order to hopefully, maybe, not likely, get laid or find the Woman of Your Dreams™.
And that is why people, especially women but men too, hate first dates. It also contributes to so many people out there having so much trouble dating and getting laid via dates.
If you're a man, a first date is strictly a mechanism to establish comfort and sexual attraction within the woman as quickly as possible. You are "allowed" to do anything to achieve those two things, whether greater society agrees with them or not. And yes, you must achieve both those things if you want to have sex fast. (Just remember we're talking about dates here, not things like club game. For example, comfort is much more necessary for fast sex via dates than it is with drunk girls at the club at 2am.)
The structure and technique behind a first date is whatever the hell you want it to be as long as you achieve those two goals. Don't ever let any societal BS tell you otherwise.
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Oxyjinn 2013-04-04 10:40:05
"By the end of most of my first dates, I have women talking about men cumming inside them or the do’s and don’ts of blowjobs." All right BD, This is fucking impressive (in my eyes anyway). Is there a good way to learn the concept of asking the right questions to get to this level or do you get there by trying stuff out on the way to the first dates tripple digits ?
Johnny Caustic 2013-04-05 00:22:51
I agree with Oxyjinn. This is one of the skills I'm having the hardest time figuring out. It probably seems really easy to guys who already have it figured out, but it seems really hard to guys like me who haven't yet figured out good questions to ease our way into sexual topics. One question I got from you, BD, and have used to good effect is "Have you been dating much lately?" It's great for getting the relationship talk started. But I haven't figured out an equally natural/comfortable question for getting sex talk started.
Blackdragon 2013-04-05 12:14:01
This is only a guess, but I think the biggest problem for guys having trouble with this Outcome Independence. You're scared of overdoing it and looking like a pervert. Regardless of the techniques you learn, if you still have that concern, you wouldn't be able to do it. Therefore I think the sticking point is to just stop worrying about that. Just resolve that on your next first date/meet, you're going to talk about sex explicitly, and if she thinks you're a disgusting creep and throws a drink in your face, fine, next. (Which, by the way, has never happened to me ever.) How to do it is exactly in the segue to sex talk link in the post, specifically item number 5 in that post. You just ask her a sexual question about her past relationship while keeping very relaxed, casual, nonthreatening body language. But again, I don't think technique is your problem. I think mindset is.
Johnny Caustic 2013-04-06 00:45:44
Duh! I didn't even see that link. Thank you.
Oxyjinn 2013-04-06 08:43:25
Thanks BD. My problem is rather bridging (if there needs to be one).
Oxyjinn 2013-04-06 08:51:45
I gave it more thought and you're right. Outcome Independence is exactly the light at the end of the tunnel, even though it may seem blurry when you look at it the first few times.
AFP 2013-04-08 05:11:53
"First dates are actually one of my most calming activities. Chilling at a fancy quiet bar, asking a woman a few questions, then kicking back and tuning out as she talks for an hour is actually quite relaxing." So true.
dennis 2013-04-21 09:41:14
Here's a possible product for you that I think would sell well. Either a video of how you act and talk on a first date(including an actress) or a mp3 or transcript of same.
Blackdragon 2013-04-21 10:38:53
I have strongly considered doing that. I probably will.
jack 2017-02-14 22:16:34
+++++10 to the recording/transcript request That's the one and only recurring criticism I have with all of the books and posts, too often critical instructions are vague and left up to the reader to fill in the details. Perhaps my IQ should be higher than it is but nonetheless, I really need at least one detailed example most of the time. Nonetheless, the general information that you give is such gold that it still has rocketed my game beyond what I ever imagined was possible, simply by having the steps brought to my attention. But yeah, I am constantly wishing for something like this when reading your stuff. The transition to and execution of sex talk on a first date would be high on my list.
Blackdragon 2017-02-15 09:16:55
That’s the one and only recurring criticism I have with all of the books and posts, too often critical instructions are vague and left up to the reader to fill in the details. Perhaps my IQ should be higher than it is but nonetheless, I really need at least one detailed example most of the timeThat's what buying my books is for.