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POF – New Age Limit
I get a bunch of emails on this. I'm not on the dating sites at the moment, but many of you are and plenty of you are railing about the new age restrictions at Plenty of Fish. If you didn't know yet, a few days ago "Mr. Markus", founder of POF, sent a message out to all POF customers. Get ready to puke.
-By Caleb Jones
So far, so good.
Around 3 years ago, everyone started using the website via mobile phones. Today about 70% of POF use is via a mobile phone
That's actually a useful factoid. I figured it was around 50%, not 70%. One of the reasons I re-wrote my main online dating ebook was to include the fact that so much online dating these days is done with phones rather than computers.
Now here's where things take a turn for the worse.
and unfortunately about 2% of men started to use POF as more of a hookup site mostly due to the casual nature of cell phone use.
Wait a minute.
Men just started using POF as a hookup site? Just in the last three years? Because of cell phones?
Mr. Markus, are you and I talking about the same POF? POF has been the go-to site for hookups for many, many years. It's the place people went to because Match.com cost money. People were using it this way before anyone was playing around with OKCupid. Guys (and gals!) were using Plenty of Fish to "hookup" way back when I was still married and monogamous (pre-2007) and didn't even know what POF was.
And let's talk about your numbers. 2% of men are looking to hook up on POF? Just 2%? You mean 98% of men on POF are looking for a soul mate?
Mr. Markus, are you fucking delusional?
This is a wonderful example of the lengths people and corporations will go to in order to bend the truth, just to politically correct.
The insanity continues....
In sticking with my vision that POF is all about Relationships, I'm going to make a bunch of changes to ensure it stays a relationship-focused site. POF was never a "relationships-focused" site. That's what eHarmony and Match.com was for. I'm not saying everyone on POF is there to just get laid, but to call POF a "relationship-focused site" is silly. But I already covered that.
Instead, I shall translate this last paragraph into English: In order to kiss women's asses, and ensure that we keep women on this fucking web site, we've implemented changes that will make women feel better, alienate men, and hamper the overall experience and effectiveness of our service.
1. Any first contact between users that contains sexual references will not be sent. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will be deleted without warning. This rule has actually been in effect since last month and it's made the site so much better. I'm okay with that, I guess. Men who go full-on sexual with their first message to a woman are just wasting everyone's time. Don't do it. That being said, I'm not sure if I want my dating site to be combing through my openers and filtering out the ones they deem "sexual". But whatever. Not a huge deal. Yet.
2. You can only contact people +/- 14 years of your age. There is no reason for a 50 year old man to contact a 18 year old women. The majority of messages sent outside those age ranges are all about hookups. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will get deleted. There we go. The big problem. I'll discuss this in a minute.
3. Intimate Encounters will go away in the next few months. There are 3.3 Million people who use the site every day, of those there are only 6,041 single women looking for Intimate Encounters. Of those 6,041 women, the ones with hot pictures are mostly men pretending to be women. Intimate Encounters on POF can be summed up as a bunch of horny men talking to a bunch of horny men pretending to be women.
I don't have a huge problem with this, because frankly, because of Societal Programming and ASD, the vast majority of women who want an intimate encounter are not going to say that on their profiles for fear of embarrassment or slut shaming. So having that category on a site that isn't quite to the degree of AdultFriendFinder is indeed somewhat superfluous. Not because it's inaccurate, but because no one will use that label, including the people to whom it actually applies. (Sadly.)
In short the vast majority of people will not be impacted. This is because the vast majority of people are not going around spamming women saying "let's have sex tonight". I can't change POF alone, I need your help to get the word out there that POF is all about relationships!
Again with the fucking "relationships" talk. As if relationships have nothing to do with sex. As if most relationships don't start out with, you guessed it, SEX. Especially and particularly those 18 year-old girls whom Mr. White Knight Markus is trying to protect. Doesn't Mr. Markus realize those younger women are the ones who generally put out faster than those over-33 types?
The Problems With Age Difference Restrictions
Here are the problems with what POF is doing.
(UPDATE 5/25/13: It's actually worse than what Markus has said. To quote commenter Magik: If you are 30 or over, you can’t message 18-21 year olds at all. I’m 30, and even though I am within 15 years age difference from an 18 year old, I can’t message them. So keep that in mind as I say what I'm about to say.)
1. As I have discussed here and elsewhere in great detail, a sizable percentage of women age 18-23 are "Type 2s". These are women who are strongly attracted to much older men. In many cases, the older, the better (within reason of course). These women don't want to date men their age. Men their age actually turn them off. These women usually have no avenue to find these kinds of men in their normal day-to-day lives. So where do they go to find them?
By implementing this change, POF has instantly destroyed the entire reason these women go to their site in the first place. Now that 18 or 19 year-old who really wants a much older guy is limited to guys age 32-33 and under. Well Blackdragon, 32 should be old enough for them. Those girls can settle for 32. Who are you to decide that? Isn't that up to them? Who died and made you god? Who made you the arbiter of what ages are appropriate for a 18 or 19 or 22 year-old woman to date? Isn't that up to her, you fucking fascist?
2. Women on POF already have the ability to block incoming messages from men over a certain age. Any woman can go into her profile and block all messages from men over whatever age she wants. It's a basic feature that's been there since time immemorial. So why the hell are you dictatorially mandating this 14 year restriction to everyone? Having been a business consultant for decades, and having worked with many corporations intimately, I know the answer to this question.
The Public Answer: "We want to help our female customers feel safe that creepers won't be messaging them, and we want to make it easy for these women to not have to go into their settings and blah blah blah politically correct corporatespeak blah blah blah..."
The Real Answer: "We don't want older guys messaging younger women. We think it's gross. And it's our site. So fuck you. Also, our customers are stupid. And younger women are really stupid. They don't read directions or look at any settings. They probably wouldn't even understand them if they did. They're so dumb. So they don't know they have the ability to filter incoming messages. If they're going to be that stupid, fine, we'll do it for them. Which we want to anyway, since we don't want older guys messaging younger women. That's gross." I promise you that's the exact thought process going on over at POF HQ right now.
3. I am now going to put myself in the very odd position of defending gold diggers. Let's be real here, these women are a large part of POF's client base also. Why is POF limiting the ability for hot young gold diggers to snag some rich older beta male? Again, isn't that between the gold digger and the sugar daddy? When/why did POF suddenly decide these kinds of relationships are unacceptable?
4. The age restriction runs both ways. That means older women can't message younger guys any more. At least theoretically...we'll have to see if this is actually true. (UPDATE 5/25/13: It's been confirmed. Women cannot message younger men. Many over-30 women have had conversations they had going with hot younger guys instantly terminated when the new rule was enacted.) So now cougars are deemed unacceptable and inappropriate for POF? I thought you wanted to reach out to women with these new rules, you fucking hypocrites. Any woman in her mid-30s or over are now barred forever from messaging hot young guys? Oh, that's nice. Way to go POF.
5. "There is no reason for a 50 year old man to contact a 18 year old woman," Markus says. Well Markus, I personally know a few 50 year-old men and 18 year-old women who would completely disagree with you. But you'd probably just call these people sick and disgusting. Okay, fine, Mr. Tolerant. But what about 45 year-old men messaging 22 year-old women? Is that sick and disgusting too? Or is that okay?
What about a 40 year-old man messaging a 25 year-old woman? Under your new rules, that's no longer allowed either. Is this disgusting too?
Where exactly is the line drawn between Disney Beta Male White Knight Pussy and "Disgusting"? Care to comment, Mr. Markus? Or should I say Mr. God Of What Is Sexually Appropriate?
What about the 25 year old girl who wants to message that cute 40 year-old guy? Is she sick and disgusting too? Is she just "looking for a hookup" too? Is she just out for cheap and tawdry one-night-stands because she happens to be messaging a guy who's more than 14 years older? (Because of course only 2% of people on POF are looking for sex. POF is about relationships.)
No. They're going to do one of two things:
A) They'll leave POF and start using some other free dating mechanism (from OKCupid to MeetMe to Tinder to a million other available options).
B) They'll just start lying about their age.
You watch. There's now going to be a huge epidemic of men and cougar women lying on their profiles about their ages. It's going to be a big deal and people are going to complain about it in droves. You think you saw a few women complain about older men messaging them? (Even though these women could have filtered these men out, but I digress.) Just watch all the complaints that will flood in now, POF, with everyone lying on their profiles. You ain't seen nothin' yet. (And you deserve it. Assholes.)
My Change In Advice
About that lying about your age thing...
I have repeatedly stated that men should not lie online, especially about things that can be easily verified once someone starts dating you, like your age. Fudging your age by one or two years in order to come up in certain searches, that's okay. But I've always advised against things like saying you're 32 when you're really 40
I stand by this advice. Don't blatantly lie on your profile. It will just cause drama and outcome dependence, unless your one and only goal is nothing but one-night-stands (which has never been my goal). I am now going to officially change my position in one key area: If you're an older guy and you're on POF. If you're on POF and you're over the age of 32, GO AHEAD AND LIE ABOUT YOUR AGE. Lie your ass off. If you're in your 40s and look decently young, fucking lie and say you're 30 so you can email those younger Type 2s who are looking for a man just like you. (And if you're an over-35 cougar on POF wanting a hot young guy, I say the same to you. Lie about your age. Go for it.)
Don't lie about anything else, please. Just your age. Also, if you do lie about your age on your profile, come clean about your real age on the first date, or at least by the second date. When I drop my age by a year or two on my profile for testing purposes, this is what I do. I'm talking about lying about your age on your profile, not lying to women in real life about who you are.
Personally, I'm at the point where I think I'm just going to drop POF from my online game repertoire altogether. Fuck those guys. There are so many other ways to get laid online that you really don't need POF like you did five years ago.
True, over time these sites will also do a "Markus" and get politically correct and dictatorial also. Fine. Just keep moving to the new sites. Everything that works with online dating works regardless of the particular web site you're using (within reason). It's the techniques that work, not the specific medium. Assume in advance that every few years, you'll have to switch to new dating sites and dating technologies. That's okay. The fundamentals will always work regardless.
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AnotherDragon 2013-05-23 05:29:48
Do you know any Cougars on POF who you can ask to check if the restriction actually applies to them too?
joshaaronop 2013-05-23 06:08:03
I saw this email the other day and, exactly on cue, wanted to puke myself. This guy made it big with the right site at the right time, and now thinks he's the ruler of online dating and can shove his personal preferences and ideals down everyone's throats. The man can hardly ever send out a mass email without embarrassing sentence structure or grammatical errors, yet his relationship ideals are Gospel. I agree that POF can take a hike, his own hubris will be the fall of the service. The changes hardly affect me as I'm 27, but I'm so insulted it doesn't matter.
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-23 06:35:22
Well, I agree that it's kinda gross for 50 year olds to be messaging 18 year olds. I wouldn't have a problem with them restricting 18-21 year olds from being messaged by people over a certain age, because really they are still children and generally naive. You can't drink alcohol yet, maybe you're not old enough to make the best decisions when being pushed for sex by someone as old as your dad/grandpa either. Beyond that though, I agree that it's unfair to impose a rule like that even if it's not something I personally care to do. Once a person is fully and legally an adult they should be able to make those decisions themselves.
Magik 2013-05-23 07:13:45
If you are 30 or over, you can't message 18-21 year olds at all. I'm 30, and even though I am within 15 years age difference from an 18 year old, I can't message them. Of course, the easy fix is to delete my profile and reopen it as a 29 year old, but I'm not sure I want to do that. Not only this, but POF blocks certain types of messages and limits the amount of messages you can send in a day. It's really too much trouble at this point to even bother. The amount of work a guy has to put in to get laid from POF at this point is becoming greater and greater as time goes on. Meanwhile, I can go to MeetMe, where I have just as many 18-21 year olds (if not more) as POF, and I can message them whatever I want, whenever I want, and send them all the same email if I want. I'd say MeetMe and OKCupid are the 2 primary sites worth focusing on right now. If anyone knows of any others, please list them. I've tried Badoo and it sucks where I am. Skout is better, but no where near MM and OKC.
maldek 2013-05-23 08:04:06
This one made me rofl. I can smell the brain-dead logic behind these changes. To your excellent analysis BD, here are my 2 extra cents of thought. "What do you think men will do now that this new rule is in place?" Weeeeell. He thinks - or should i say EXPECTS - because this is what this young MBA with her(!) power point presentation told him - the following to happen. She told him, in shiny powerpoint sheets, that it is the middle aged (read 33+) woman who brings the money. These woman want good catches, thats solvent men over say 40. Problem is, these men dont want them (no idea why??), they go for the hot young girls. So IF we simply block these men from contacting the hotties, they will have no other choice but to contact the desperate middle aged women with the money. Problem solved! Another good day for feminism. It is so simple, why could you not see it sooner? Thats hamster logic prime time. Sadly thats exactly like a young MBA feminist chick thinks. Now the question remains: Is Mr. Markus really a male? I doubt it.
tarzanwannabe 2013-05-23 08:21:40
R.I.P. POF. I'm a 54yo man. My recent GF of several years was 32 -- an 22 year difference. Another previous GF was 31 while I was 49 -- an 18 year difference. My ex (and mother of my 9yo son) is 12 years younger than me. I immediately canceled my POF in response to the 'improvements'.
tarzanwannabe 2013-05-23 08:24:01
POF can't do maths. (Age/2) + 7=Good Match
Jack 2013-05-23 09:23:35
As Magik pointed out, it's actually worse than this. The 15 year and over age restriction applies as long as you are trying to contact women under 35 (otherwise there is no restriction). But NO ONE age 30 or over can message anyone age 21 or under. So if you're 30, you're allowed to only message women 8 years younger than you. You must be 29 or younger if you want to message girls age 18, 19, 20, or 21. As was pointed out above, the paid features of POF are mostly utilized by over 33 women. And those golddiggers don't want any competition from the young hot free spirits. This was a business decision to satisfy the prostitutes who bring POF all the money, nothing more. Just because they don't want young competition (or sexually explicit messages), POF is forbidding all behaviors that are not officially approved of by either Jesus Christ, Walter Disney, or Andrea Dworkin! Fucking retards! I think POF will suffer for this!
Jack 2013-05-23 09:46:40
@Lovergirl: 18 year olds can block any age group they want from messaging them by adjusting their profile settings. That's always been a feature of POF. No one was ever messaged by an undesirable age group! EVER! What POF is doing now is making the decision against the will of these girls! The only explanation is that old Disney whores don't want competition from sexually open minded young girls who are "betraying the sisterhood" by fucking men too early! And don't give me the whole "they're still children" nonsense! If they're old enough to vote and sign a binding contract, they're old enough to fuck whomever they want. This isn't about what they want, or about protecting innocent virgin damsels from rape (pure feminist propaganda). It's about what gold-digging whores are paying POF to do in order to weed out their younger competitors. End of story!
Blackdragon 2013-05-23 10:21:57
The man can hardly ever send out a mass email without embarrassing sentence structure or grammatical errors, yet his relationship ideals are Gospel.He had multiple, obvious grammatical errors (repeated words, etc) in his short email that we actually corrected for the quotes on the blog article. I probably should have left the errors in just to demonstrate what we're dealing with here.
Blackdragon 2013-05-23 10:24:01
Do you know any Cougars on POF who you can ask to check if the restriction actually applies to them too?Lovergirl, would you like to try going on POF and messaging a cute 20 year-old guy? We can resolve this once and for all. Or anyone could just make a fake profile and say they're a woman...
Mike 2013-05-23 10:34:43
Damn, this is ridiculous. Great post BD – fuck POF.
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-23 11:00:00
BD, I just went and tried to message a 21 yr old guy for you (not that I'd actually be interested in someone that age because I'm not) and it said he is not accepting messages from people my age or gender, lol.
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-23 11:15:42
Let me tell you though, a 21 yr old man is like a baby to me. Especially seeing those pics, there is no way in hell I could sleep with an 18 yr old without feeling like a pedophile. Even the 22 yr old guy I had sex with back when I was 35 (last summer) just felt wrong and I couldn't do it again. I realize men are different here but it was just too awkward (even though he's a great looking guy and wanted to see me again). As for this nonsense about women over 33 being the main paid members, I sincerely doubt it! The idea that all of us over 33 women are desperate because of our age is pretty laughable though I see this sentiment from MEN online a lot. I haven't noticed any difference in the amount and quality of men that hit me up now than when I was 18, maybe it's even gotten better quality wise. Also, as a 36 yr old woman, I get hit on by a lot of men, in all age ranges from 18-60 or so but the majority are in their 30's-40's. I'm not generally interested in guys over 50 so it's hard to imagine why an 18 yr old would be. As a parent, I'd rather when my daughter is that age she not have to be pestered by old guys and really it would creep me out if "cougars" were preying on my teenage son. I don't doubt there are a lot of UNDER 18 yr olds posing as "older" on a website like that either. In this day and age anyone can get a profile someplace like that. Look at all the 12 yr olds on Facebook. So, POF may be trying to cover their ass a bit there too. I still think it's stupid to try and regulate whether a 40 yr old and a 65 yr old can hook up but whatever, it is his site after all, no one is entitled to anything in particular. I agree though that it will most likely just cause an influx of profiles where guys are lying their asses off to try and hook up with very young girls. I'm still shaking my head at you guys that seem to think women my age are old spinsters and all pathetic and desperate and jealous of younger women. I don't feel that way at all. What I find offensive is the men going around spouting this bullshit and acting like older women are so unattractive. I've really only encountered that online from these pua sites. In real life men seem to like us just fine. I don't generally pay attention to guys over 50 who message me. I did get one the other day who told me I looked like Jerry Hall (Mick Jagger's wife) back in the 80's so I had to look her up and see what she looked like back then, lol, but otherwise not so much. I'd think most of the "golddiggers" you all are railing against would be the very ones interested in messaging with guys in a much older age group so maybe POF is trying to prevent being used as a sugar daddy hookup site as well, for legal reasons.
Bastardly 2013-05-23 11:50:55
@BD (and all readers) Here's some funny news that makes POF look even worse: the owner set up a sister site awhile back that aims to be very inclusive; it's evow.com . Go look at it. Basically what it sounds like; 'Hey if you're looking for a REAL relationship, were you jump feet first into monogamy/commitment then yeah you're better than everyone else, and this is the place for you" . Well that's the attitude I got. Man that site just felt needy. I think it sheds even more light on the sites creator and what he's trying to cater to, I wonder if this is an overly religious guy... So what are your thoughts on said site? Is there a chance the POF owner didn't have a lot of success with evow and is trying to turn POF into a like site? Thoughts guys?
Jack 2013-05-23 15:06:16
@Lovergirl: If your daughter were to be on POF and you didn't want her to "get pestered by old guys" as you claim, than you'd simply tell her to adjust her profile settings to make it impossible for men outside her age group to send her messages. Easy fix! As I said, that has always been a POF feature. This means that no message was ever sent from an unwanted age group. EVER! The difference is that now the site is denying older men the right to fuck younger women EVEN IF THOSE YOUNGER WOMEN WANT IT. That's the difference. Before, the members could decide. Now, the site does. And yes, a 65 year old and a 40 year old can still hook up. There is no age restriction as long as both people are 35 or over. And it's not about women over 33 being less attractive. It's about them being more prude. They want to use sex as a weapon against men by utilizing it as a bargaining chip in exchange for resources, money, and commitment, whereas the young girls just want to fuck and have a good time, which is exactly what the older men want. So by restricting older men from messaging the younger women, the older women think they are securing the market and forcing the men into the provider role by cutting them off from those so called "slutty traitors to the sisterhood." Then they tell themselves that they are secretly working in the younger girls' best interests because the young ones don't have the self esteem yet to set a price for their vaginas higher than the penis in exchange! LOL! Whatever helps gold-diggers sleep at night while they secure their own power! The last thing older women want is for older men to have younger choices. Obtaining money, resources, and commitment from men their own age will become harder, which it should!
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-23 15:53:57
@Jack-not every 15 yr old girl on POF pretending to be 18 is telling her parents she's on there. I'm willing to bet there are a ton that aren't. Even 18 just seems so young and susceptible and naïve. Heck, my 21 yr old sister really still is. Watching her get taken advantage of by men is painful. The older a man is the more time he's had to hone his manipulation skills and the more sway/fear he is going to be able to put into a young woman. Hell, you'd think by my age and with my experience I'd be able to spot the players and liars a mile away and I still recently ended up with an STD, thanks to a 48 yr old man and was fooled into believing some bullshit by the Professor, who is 44. I think I'm going to have to stick with guys my own age who at least are less likely to be able to outdo me in that area. I keep telling you all, over 33 women are anything but "prude", for the most part, lol. You all really have active imaginations too thinking we care about competition from 20 somethings and younger. For the most part, we don't even think about that because most men that we are interested in aren't sleeping with women in that age range. It's only the women that get cheated on and traded in for a younger model that really care about that shit. It doesn't really affect the rest of us at all.
Wils 2013-05-23 16:44:00
This idea of older men pursuing younger women being disgusting is absurd and offensive to me. This goes for POF and normal women like Lovergirl. I can hardly blame them since this seems to be the societal norm. But when I stopped to think about it, there is no logic behind it. There is just a whole lot of age discrimination. What makes an older guy an automatic creep? The experience in years? The wrinkles? What is it? What a bunch of bull shit.
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-23 17:02:26
Wils, I'm not offended by isolated cases of older men falling in love with and dating or having sex with younger (adult) women. What I find "creepy" is men specifically SEEKING OUT girls that are young BECAUSE of their age. It's like they are preying on the weak, deliberately, due to their naivety. Men of any age can use women but when you lust after someone because of their age rather than their personal characteristics it starts to seem a little too close to pedophilia. Like, just how young would these guys be willing to go? I've heard some say 14 and other say "when she starts menstruating" (at least here online and on pua forums). THAT is fucking creepy, considering some girls start at like 9 years old (I was 11, and sure as hell not ready to have sex then either). Plus, being a female, I've had creepy, disgusting old men leering at me since I was a little girl too and yeah, that made me very uncomfortable, many times. I think a lot of women think of this association and it bothers them! When you are 12 and greying old men are making lewd comments towards you, it's freaking SCARY. So when we grow up and have had it happen so many times, the tendency is to want to protect younger girls from that. I was terrified of guys over 30 up until I was in my 20's myself. I had a 30 something bouncer at a club almost rape me once in the back when I was 15 (they had let us in because we were flirting with them) and I just remember how old and scary he seemed (even though he was an attractive, muscular black man, which if he'd been closer to my age might have been my type).
Kurt 2013-05-23 17:04:51
I for one have had relationships with women much older than me (ex-wife is +15 years) and much younger (as much as 12 years younger). Have had hookups over a broader range than that, too. Beauty and sexiness really have no age to me, although women at different ages definitely bring different things to the table. Perhaps I love women more than the average guy, but I don't think anyone would say I'm perverted and I certainly don't think I've ever taken advantage of or been taken advantage of by the women I've been with. It's all been very mutual. So why assume other people doing the same thing are somehow bad or harming people? Serious prejudice going on. POF is making a big misstep here.
Kurt 2013-05-23 17:10:37
LG, Yeah, there are creepy older guys. They probably started out as creepy younger guys. Creepy guys are a constant, get it? So I still call ageist bullshit on your "protecting young women from older creeps" reasoning.
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-23 17:30:57
:: Shrug ::: Like I've said before, I personally dont really concern myself with it as long as the woman is of age and its consensual. Just trying to explain the collective reasoning process of a lot of older women.
Colleen 2013-05-23 20:47:36
One really important issue you left out of the blog is the HUGE number of younger men who want to contact older women and are not allowed to do so. I just left POF because all the wonderful men messaging me were in their twenties and we were suddenly, and without notice, blocked from contacting each other. I even had a date planned for the weekend and we were cut off without recourse. I have always got along better with much younger men, in fact I had a wonderful 10 year+ relationship with a man who was more than the dreaded 14 years younger than me. I have never contacted a younger man because I don't have to. They contact me and my inbox gets filled pretty quickly. I had some wonderful dates with younger men who all, BTW, wanted a relationship. THEY are being protected from ME? Get a grip. Even my friends who aren't looking for a relationship with someone more than 14 years younger are boycotting the site because they see this as discrimination in the same way they would see it if people were blocked from dating someone of another ethnicity. If Markus is looking to attract more women, he's certainly going about it the wrong way.
Greg 2013-05-24 01:38:13
"Don’t blatantly lie on your profile. It will just cause drama and outcome dependence, unless your one and only goal is nothing but one-night-stands (which has never been my goal)." What if you fuck her well the first few times then tell her the truth while she's in NRE? I don't think she'll have the choice to not accept it.
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-24 06:54:28
I may end up eating my words though tonight (literally?) since Mr. Married man just texted to ask if Im up for a threesome. His wife is out of town and the friend he wants to bring is a 21 yr old (black) girl. This is what he does when his wife goes out of town for the weekend. Now why doesnt that surprise me? LMAO Anyhow, he and I are the same age so that makes her 15 yrs younger than the both of us. Hmmm...
Oxyjinn 2013-05-24 07:21:29
@lovergirl It makes me sick to see women, like yourself, being abused and traumatized. So seeing that, I understand the reason behind your opinion in this matter. But I assure you that your experience is not the norm and regulation is not the way. An 18 year old person is legally adult in most parts of the world and so responsible for ALL his/her actions. I’m not from the US so I can laugh about this POF BS, but regulations like this make me puke.
Sparks 2013-05-24 08:00:44
What about us older guys that don't make lewd comments to younger women and don't just use younger women for one-night-stands but simply love the vitality and fun nature of younger women and being around them. Are we creeps as well? I have a 2nd date this weekend with a 22 year old which she's really looking forward to it. I'm 36 so under POF's new rules I would never have been able to contact her in the first place because Markus deems our relationship 'inappropriate'. I'll be leaving POF shortly.
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-24 08:24:28
Again, I'm just saying how some of us develop a mindset that it's "gross". We've been approached by a lot of creepy older guys in our lives. I think that's true for a large segment of women. Maybe rather than just leaving POF, people should write letters to Markus, explaining their reasoning and how they feel about the new age limitations. It doesn't sound like something he's really given a reasonable amount of thought to, because people of course aren't going to appreciate being told who they can and cannot contact on a dating site due to some arbitrary restriction.
Jim 2013-05-24 09:21:15
I wonder if the thought process Marcus uses is the same as that used by people when they go from dating non-exclusively to exclusively. They simply want more of whatever it is: power, control, emotion, etc.
Wils 2013-05-24 12:06:29
@Lovergirl Don't take this the wrong way, but so far I still only see "creepy" and "disgusting" attached to "old men" without any real tangible explanation of what makes old men creepy and disgusting. It is as though by default they are creepy. So older men have no right to feel attracted to younger women? It is disgusting by design? (reminds me of how backwards people find gays wrong and disgusting, just because.) Men don't generally go for women JUST because they are young. Men go for women because they are hot. Women of the younger age range just happen to be more attractive. Regarding "preying on the weak", there are some very inaccurate and negative connotations attached. Firstly you assume they are naive, but let's say they are really that dumb, to say they are being preyed on you imply they stand to lose something, stand to get hurt. If these older men finds a woman attractive, and this woman also finds the man attractive, and they want to have sex with each other. Isn't this mutual? Why is the girl some sort of prey? And if the feeling is mutual why does age matter? It's a whole lot of societal programmed, judgmental, bullshit discrimination. Old men are creepy and disgusting because EEEWWWW. ((And while I am no supporter of pedophiles, I find it strange that we all collectively ignore the fact that people less than a hundred years ago married women who were 14. But now of course we feel it is objectively wrong to even look at a 14 year old the wrong way as if this is the ONE default truth across all of space and time.))
Wils 2013-05-24 12:13:33
Also, developing a mindset against older men because creepy older men approached you before: Ok, so old men are creepy because you have a mindset, it was formed when creepy older men approached you when you were younger. And those older men who approached you were creepy, because they were.... old? So basically Old men are creepy because eeeewwwww? Forming a mindset like that, also, is a form of discrimination. It isn't ok for a guy to say "well I find black guys scary in general, because I've almost been robbed by black guys before, I think".
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-24 12:55:53
@Wils...sigh...Like I said I am simply trying to describe the emotional process that causes a lot of women to view older men as "creepy". If you don't get it then there isn't going to be a whole lot I can say to you to help you understand because it's not necessarily a logical thing. Try for a minute to picture yourself as a 9-12 year old, just starting to develop sexually and having multitudes of older men notice and act turned on by this, at a time when you are still at the point where you are starting to feel modest about your developing body and DON'T WANT anyone looking at it. For our purposes, lets say you're a boy and men are doing this. It's not really any more "wanted" attention from young girls than it would be from young boys at that time. Add that it often comes from OLD guys, who in your young age seem especially ugly, scary and able to harm you- then maybe it will help you understand the fear it inspires in many young girls. What happens A LOT is that older men notice and draw attention to a girls sexuality long before she's ready to share it with anyone and while she's still figuring it out herself. I can't tell you the amount of men that made sexual comments to me before I even became a teenager. So by the time I was old enough to actually want sex these older men had already long ago scared me off. Hell, I STILL feel uncomfortable when men over a certain age try to hug or touch me. Of course most of the men who are going to actively make sexual comments to a barely starting to develop girl are going to be weirdos. That doesn't change the fact that it forms a certain image in her mind of "dirty old men". Whether its "fair" or not doesn't really matter. I'm just trying to point out the process of what IS for some women anyway, the basis of their fear and disgust.
GOB 2013-05-25 09:18:49
@Lovergirl: You seems like just the typical woman, who is described in BD's posts. The older woman, who find a lot of men creepy just because you think they are too old for other women or whatever. That's why I don't really like women in pua forums, because most of them tell just the same prudish Disney bullshit, while they act the exact opposite. That's a very good quote from you, which shows that you're just wasting your time in pua sites: "What I find offensive is the men going around spouting this bullshit and acting like older women are so unattractive. I’ve really only encountered that online from these pua sites. In real life men seem to like us just fine." Yes it's true. Because something happens in the online world with men, and it's called honesty. At a suburban garden party how many 40+ men will tell you, that they really like 20 yr old girls with hot bodies? Not their "pride and happy plus size" wives? And when a man wants to lay you, does he says that he'd rather fuck that 19 year old waitress, but he has a better chance with you? No, people in the real world tend to tell the same Disney bullshit while in reality they want something very different. Heck, with friends and coworkers I'm almost never talk about this open-relationship thing. Sometimes I go to church with my family, and there is this smokin' hot ~18 year old chick. If you stand in the right position, you can see all the dads with their "happy monogamy" just looking at this chick like they've never seen a woman before. And maybe the worst part in you comments is when guys talk about younger women, you immediately associate to 9-12 year olds! WTF? Does anybody wrote that in any comments? No. If they like 12 year olds, they are legitimate creeps/pedophiles. But not the 50 year old guy who lays girls in their early 20's.
wildrosesmyl 2013-05-25 14:19:03
As a 42 year old woman, I openly admit to being one of the small percentage of women who listed "intimate encounter" as her preference. But now, according to Markus, I'm just a horny man looking to connect with other horny men. Now, I actually get questions about my authenticity as a women, because women who want intimat s, I get messages from all kinds
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-25 14:41:00
@GOB- I no longer post on any PUA sites. Also, I don't doubt that you are telling the truth, that men really only care about looks and youth, but go for older women because mostly they are unattractive themselves after a certain age and younger women don't want them. I mean, that's life. People get older and there is nothing we can do about it. No matter how hard women try to look good in their old age, they still won't be 18 and men are still going to be nasty about it in online forums. Obviously you didn't actually read my comments because you are saying I'm bringing it to 9-12 year olds. No, I'm explaining why many women associate old men with "creepy". It DOES start when you are very young, for many of us and because you are helpless as a child and that happens, you start to associate it with FEAR. I started developing early, but not THAT early and I had creepy men coming at me from a young age. It's much more common than it should be. You want to know why women view this as creepy I am telling you. It's because of unwanted advances by older men that they are NOT attracted to. It happens constantly, all your life, and when it starts early it scares the hell out of you. It's not reciprocated by many of us.
lifeofalovergirl 2013-05-25 14:42:58
As for listing as wanting intimate encounters, I don't do that on POF but I had checked the casual encounter button on OKCupid, along with several other choices and boy have I gotten some interesting emails from that. Everything from men assuming I'm going to fuck them and sending dick pics to ones lecturing me and telling me I shouldn't be disrespecting myself that way. All because of checking a freaking BOX and I don't even have anything written in my profile!
wildrosesmyl 2013-05-25 14:52:32
As a 42 year old woman, I openly admit to being one of the small percentage of women who listed "intimate encounter" as her preference. But now, according to Markus, I'm just a horny man looking to connect with other horny men. Now, I actually get questions about my authenticity as a women, because women who want intimate encounters are fictional creatures, like unicorns and honest politicians. This is extremely sexist as we, women, have been force fed the bullshit about relationships and happily ever afters since before we could talk. Disney, anyone?!? Why can't we admit that we want sex? Must we be forced into this notion of a relationship to validate our worth as a woman? What happened to equality? Apparently, because I have a uterus I MUST be in a relationship to procreate and prove my value to society. Thanks Markus, for pushing equality back 50 years. Now let's address the age issue. We all know that a woman reaches her sexual prime in her 40s, while men peak much earlier at 18. Why is Markus interferring with natural expressions of sexuality? So an 18 year old man can go and die for his country, but he can't even talk to a woman 14 years his senior? Now for a reality. An 18 year old contacted me to which I summarily dismiss in my response as "Sorry, too young" as I have arbitrarily, based upon MY preferences, 30 as my cutoff age. However, he desperately replies that he needs someone to talk to because he is suicidal. As a human being, I continue to talk to him throughout the months because mental health services are almost non-existent where I live, but we have a lot of young men working in the oil patch, isolated and alone for their first time in remote camps. We form a friendship, regardless of age, and some days the only reason I log in to POF is to see how he is doing. Now, I have no ability to contact him. A suicidal kid, in the middle of nowhere loses his only line of support. I take to the forums, explain the situation and SUGGEST that I will have to start another account with falsified information so that I can re-establish contact. Then POF bans me. Bans me for SUGGESTING that I may start up another account. Pre-emptive strikes. Yup. And when there is an outcry from fellow members, the "moderators" of the forums outright LIE saying that I have multiple accounts. Interestingly, the "moderators" block communications from me so I can't even lodge a complaint or challenge them to prove their claims. So, I left.....fortunately, another member on the forum offered to make contact to this young man but I haven't heard from him. My greatest fear is that he may have killed himself. I hope you sleep well at nights, Markus. You may have cost this young man his life.
Ken 2013-05-25 16:43:21
Really, they've always been a bunch of self-righteous dickheads over there, both Markus and all of his moderator minions. I was always careful to never contact a woman with the IE box checked, because doing so automatically locks your profile out from contacting most of the girls on there. A sucker hole if I've ever seen one. If you want to have at the girls on POF, then just do as BD suggested and fake your age. You'll want to be careful to erase all of your cookies first, and consider using a different IP address (go to a coffee shop, get a VPN service, use your phone, etc). Possibly consider using different pics and text in your new profile. I'm not sure exactly what parameters they are tracking to identify multiple profiles, but best to eliminate all of the possibilities. And of course, don't crow about what you are doing on the forums. Saying that, I'm wondering if it is even worth it ... I've noticed the quality of the girls on POF going way down over the past couple of years in my area (which is also BD's area). Much better pickings on OKC.
Ken 2013-05-25 16:59:40
Oh, and get a new throwaway email address to use for registration, of course.
Matt T. 2013-05-26 18:09:30
@Ken: Just corroborating your advice right here... here's an unfortunate story. I sent out a nice, gramatically correct, sexual opening message to about 40 women on POF just one day before Markus sent out his stupid email message to everyone. I modified the opener that JWS used on the sedfast forums a few months ago. It is far from simply "hey sexy wanna fuck?" Anyway, I got zero responses, and this is unusual since my pictures are really good; I usually get a couple messages a week complimenting the pics and wanting to talk more. Next day... Markus sends out his email with all the new rules. My account gets deleted. No wonder no one replied to me... no one saw the opener. I opened a new account a few days later on POF with different profile text and a much nicer, clean opener that had no sex talk at all in it. It was just simply "Hey you seem cool. Having an awesome week?" As basic as you can get, and guess what? My account gets deleted. I figure it's because my pictures were the same as my old POF account. I tried the sexual opener on OKC and got laid the next day. Fuck POF. My question now is: where will all the hordes of wonderful women who used POF to get laid and/or find older/younger men for relationships go? OKC? Zoosk? Meetme? Craiglist? Combination? My gut tells me OKC.
Greg 2013-06-01 06:05:45
As BD is preaching to the converted here, BD is better off Emailing everything he's said here, to Markus himself, but that's if Markus bothers to read it.
Lee 2013-06-13 09:36:46
I think it is time for the black dragon 100% free dating site...
Blackdragon 2013-06-13 09:41:25
Oh, if only I had some spare time...
Red Dragon 2013-06-25 06:39:01
Markus is wasting his talent. He should apply for a job with the NSA. Such a position would provide more satisfaction and address his core need to be in control over many. And if he examined enough files, over time it would improve his grammar as well - as long as he wasn't only targeting Kanye West or the like. The best education the FBI ever received was while stalking John Lennon.
Advice Guru 2013-07-07 14:53:29
I agree with every bit of this blog. Even though it doesn't affect me personally (I'm 33, so I can go up to 47 and I THOUGHT I could go down to 19 but I guess not. In any event...) I think those rule changes are the silliest things to hit POF in a long while. Probably ever. As you said (and as most of us already know) men (and women) have been using POF as a hookup site long before now. I've NEVER used POF on my cell phone & I've STILL hooked up with plenty of women off there. To say that POF has always been about relationships is absolutely ludicrous. There are some who want to find Mr or Miss Right (as evident by all the female profiles that say "I'm tired of playing games" and "Sick of the bar scene" or "I'm done with guys who don't care about me.") but if the right person with the right game or sexual energy comes along, they'll still be hooking up, not worrying in the least about a relationship. Not until that sex-ship is over. THEN they'll go back to their search. I wonder what Markus would say if he READ this blog. That's what I wanna know. I'm sure I'll NEVER know, but I'd LOVE to hear or see him to to refute any of the points you've made here in this blog.
Advice Guru 2013-07-07 15:05:26
Whoops, that last sentence should say "try to" refute, not "to to." My bad.
Fritz 2013-07-24 06:26:15
Marcus is an idiot.....I spend most of my time in Asia, where most women would NOT look at a man unless he is at LEAST 10 years older
j2j2 (@j2j2x) 2013-07-26 13:49:04
i am 40, my wife (wife, i said wife) i 24, been married for 5 years, we have kids, we did not meet each other on internet, i am poor and immigrant, she is rich. markus' bigotry is an insult to our family. i am planning to sue him, i have been using pof 10 years ago, yet i do not admit an idiot to insult my family.
danboxing 2013-07-30 10:55:40
Yeah, it's even worse than that. I'm only 30, not 32. I was talking to this really sweet 19 year old who prefers older guys. We had tried to plan a couple dates that fell through. We were working on another one and we were both free, when suddenly I stopped hearing from here. A few hours after it was too late to go on the date, I got a message from her on facebook (normally that would make her a creeper, but I appreciate the industriousness, and am pretty into her) telling me POF told her I wasn't accepting messages from people of her age and gender! WTF! POF is trying to torpedo my budding relationship. We both sent support messages to them complaining about this, and have received no response. What a joke. I am not remotely a creeper, and it's not like I only go after the under 20 crowd, but I don't discriminate based on youth as long as you're an adult, and a very large percentage of the reasonably classy members of POF in my college town just so happen to be too young for me to message now. And maybe worse- they can't message me either, even if we've been talking for weeks already. And not only am I not looking for a hook up...I turn them down.
Mike 2013-08-12 13:49:14
I met my gf/future wife on POF in March, thankfully, before this ridiculous change took place. I am 45 and she is 20 and there are no problems whatsoever in the relationship. It's a total 100% love story that Marcus would have prevented if he had the chance.
Jez 2013-09-02 04:14:18
I met a woman on POF last year - she was 22 and I was 50 - and SHE contacted ME. I'd not been looking for younger women but we had a lovely relationship, parted as good friends and still in touch very regularly. She's one of my closest friends. And this prick Markus wants to stop that? Time to leave POF out of principle!
Ryan 2013-11-02 08:23:17
Markus has never taken responsibility for the MURDERS caused by his "relationship" website. Yes, there have been numerous PlentyOfFish Dating Murders.... and countless rapes. He evidently has no opinion on those.
Andy B. 2013-11-30 07:34:51
In case you dont know, sexual references and swears are no longer just in first messages. They are restricted from men being able to send them, and in ANY message. Doesnt matter if its mutual or not. No sexual references, not even the words BOOB. can be sent. Oh, and my account was deleted for having the words "Use Tinder" As my headline. Markus has over stepped his bounds. But its ok. Tinder is on the up, and in a few months, pof wont exist. It wont be like facebook and myspace. Pof wont exist. Even women thing the new age restriction thing is stupid. Its not up to man to decide whether or not you can say something to someone, or whether or not you can restrict ages. That is governments law, and women have the ability to ignore. Not that I ever send rude messages, but the girl I am dating now, I referenced her boobs in a message on pof and the message was deleted. Sucked because she had made many sexual references in her message to me. Including the word Tits. Sucks. But I dont care. Screw Pof. Markus is a controlling idiot and I cant wait to see his stupid website crumble.
aishling 2013-12-12 16:16:23
I'm 18, and I joined POF to meet older guys because my circle of friends are all my age, it seems I'm limited to the age I can message!! Stupid website, I won't recommend it to anyone
voiceofsanity 2014-04-10 03:10:58
Your site is a joke. You restrict commmunication between people based on how many orbital periods they have respectively completed. You are clearly INSANE. Bye bye loony. x
Dave 2014-04-19 03:05:25
Seems Meetme is also getting into fascist social engineering bandwagon. Don't know what parameters they use, but I, a 31 yo can only see profiles 23 yo and up, and the first results are only 31 yo and up! It's crazy. IRL age is 2nd or 3rd date conversation
7gj7 2014-06-03 03:08:12
Comment deleted for violation of rule number 1.
Dave 2014-06-23 14:59:52
Thank for that info...Honest, funny and brilliant!! Now I know why they were all so old despite my age filtering attempts. It's sooo annoying because it took me AGES to write my profile, and I have no dishonourable intentions for my wanting to meet a younger girl, unless wanting a late family is a dishonourable intention!!?? And now I have just wasted another month of my dwindling life! q:) thank to Mr. Markus. I'm 52 and set my age range preference between 29 and 37. I don't think this is bad. I think once people get over about thirty, they're kind of looking at forty and wouldn't feel, too wasted being with someone of my age. According to most people that know me, I only look 40 and my son thinks I look in my thirties still...and being a tree surgeon, I'm still well fit and still go skateboarding as well! I thought I would be a gift for a nice say 35 year old girl, but Mr. Markus oviously has other ideas! I'm pretty annoyed about that and am going to delete my profile now I think. I was going to pay for the upgrade because I thought that may have been the problem but looks like it wouldn't have made any difference. To any older girls out there reading this...I mean no disrespect to you all and I'm sure you're all quite lovely, but for me wanting a family as I do, it's just not appropriate for me to be with someone over a certain age..we men are not so 'on the clock'.
Dave 2014-06-23 15:24:16
PS. It wouldn't have been so bad if I had been clearly informed on my profile that there was no chance of me getting my preferred age range from the start! I thought I was just unlucky..on at a bad time, or that no younger girls liked me! If it hadn't been for your kind info, my false hope would have continued for I don't know how long. It's so sly and decieteful what this pof website does and the way it does it! I really get your thinking Mr Markus thinks he's God..even higher than the law which allows sex between consenting (adults) at 16 and dating sites at (18?). What right has he got to dictate who loves who?..no right at all!!!
Dave 2014-06-23 15:30:37
PPS. I don't think I'm going to lie about my age..or if I do maybe just slightly..say 49, but probably won't even that. Just try a different site. Any suggestions? (I'm in England by the way.)
John 2014-07-14 14:04:23
I wondered why I could only see older women on POF. After a while you get bored with seeing older women all the time. Nature never made us stick to one age group. We men like to see a broad age range. I'm sure women do as well. Ditch plenty of fish.
Jason 2014-08-28 23:02:46
Now I have a valid excuse to lie about my age. Thank you, Markus. I suddenly feel ten years younger.
Jason 2014-08-31 21:29:32
Also consider, when it comes to a 35-45 year old woman on a dating site, you are dealing with: 1. someone who is probably lying about their age 2. someone whose pics are often 5 to 8 years old, sometimes even more 3. someone with a major barrier to dating or relationships, otherwise she would be taken by now With a 22 - 30 year old woman you have none of that. So POF expects us older guys to limit ourselves to the inferior/problematic women, and leave the best ones for the younger guys. That's unacceptable. Let the women decide for themselves who they want to associate with.
Jenna C. 2014-09-16 14:26:47
I am a 22 year old, 5 foot 2 inch female (which attracts ever more creepers because short equals young) and I am repulsed by older men. They're kind of the reason why I enjoy girls as well as men, men my own age that is. They're vile creatures and just spend their days watching teen porn and worrying about finding their 19 year old conquest, because these girls are "inexperienced." Older men go after such girls because they're the only ones who won't call bullshit on your inadequacy in the bedroom because they don't know any better and you're just "teaching" them a thing or two about what "good" sex feels like. We're more "vivacious"??? Spend time trying to connect with someone your own age who also enjoys those activities. You want vitality because in 2 years you're going to need someone to wipe your ass and clean your bed pan. @GOB, I will quote you now. "Sometimes I go to church with my family, and there is this smokin’ hot ~18 year old chick. If you stand in the right position, you can see all the dads with their “happy monogamy” just looking at this chick like they’ve never seen a woman before." --Yes because 18 year old girls love when old men, with their devoted wives and loving families, stare at them. The ones who are supposed to protect them are the ones who can't stop ogling. You're MEN not gorillas anymore. **News flash, fellas** you have evolved and it's no longer acceptable to live your lives based upon biology and "spreading your seed." It's "men" like you why good-hearted men get a bad rap. The girls who do "enjoy" older men most likely are using you for money because they're too dumb and lazy to attend college to become something of themselves or they have been molested/have daddy abandonment issues and you're just the guy who brings back those emotional mushy gushy "love me, daddy" feeling. There is nothing attractive about a man who's balls are at the same level as their knee caps. Or having to stop during sex to give you a blow job because your erectile dysfunction is acting up again OR have to stop all together because you're out of breath. It's not sexy to be asked if that's your daughter/father because you're that fucking old. It's not sexy to see a box of Rogaine in your medicine cabinet and it sure is not a turn on seeing all of your medication for your Osteoporosis or the 15 other diseases old men form over time. There is nothing attractive about older men unless you're a nurse. We're using you! Using you to either fill our pockets or fill an emotional void that daddy didn't fulfill. And if you're well aware we're using you for your money, then you're an egotistical, power-hungry man who's trying to prove you've still got it. Sad, really. And if you're well aware you're filling in for someone who has daddy issues, you're just creepy and hopefully you don't have children. You speak of 40+ men being honest, well there is a little bit of honesty from the 98% of girls in our early 20's.
gj 2014-09-16 15:03:43
Your viewpoint is correct for SOME older men, and for SOME younger women, and for SOME older men/younger women couples. BUT...98%...not even close. I assume you are from the U.S. in the U.S., specifically, your views are more true than in most foreign countries, but still not close to 98%. In many countries, your views are true for WAY less than half of the younger women. Why does the U.S. vs.foreign thing matter? Because POF is an international dating site, not a U.S.dating site. I know of a number of guys who are married with a big age difference, and the couple s are all really satisfied. I also know of a lot of guys older than me who are great in bed, and the women who are with them actually love them. In my specific case, I am 52. I have hair. I take 0 medications. Last week, I played two afternoons of beach doubles volleyball, a sport that less than 95% of the population can play effectively. EVERYONE I meet think I am way younger than I am. I have had a lot of women rave about my intimacy abilities. There are at least 7 women I know who would marry me ASAP if I asked them, and the oldest is about 35. There have been LOTS of women 21 and under have expressed interest in me lately, either via a website or in person. And,I do NOT have a lot of money, and I state this on my dating profiles and in person. I am not saying this to promote myself, but to show that your views, while valid, do not represent a LOT of younger women who are looking for men. And, there are a lot of older guys better than me, in a lot of ways. So, the next time you see a younger girl with an older guy, why don't you ask then about their situation, instead of assuming stuff that is not close to valid for everyone your age.
Blackdragon 2014-09-16 15:51:01
Jenna - 1. You're not talking about older men. You're talking about gross, creepy, disgusting older men. I don't think most of your girlfriends your age would have any problem fucking Hugh Jackman who well past that "gross" age of 40. If you read around this blog, you'll clearly see that I repeatedly advise older guys to be both A) good looking and B) not creepy. 2. You're a Type 1 VYW. That means older guys creep you out. That's fine, but only about 30% of women your age fall into this category. About 50% are Type 3s who don't care how old a guy is as long as he's good looking to them and not creepy, and about 20%, maybe a little less, are Type 2s who prefer older men and aren't attracted to younger men at all. 3. I can't speak for other guys, but I've never given any money or gifts to any younger woman I've dated. If it makes you feel better to think it's only about money, you're more than welcome to think that, but you're wrong. 4. In terms of daddy issues, sure, some of these women had those without a doubt. But a huge amount did not. Many of them had good fathers, were very close to their fathers, and spent lots of time with them. Again, if you think it's only about dysfunctional daddy issues, you're more than welcome to think that, but you're wrong. It really is possible (and somewhat common) for non-gold-digger, perfectly normal and well-adjusted younger women to honestly be attracted to decent looking, non-creepy older guys...because it's simply what they prefer. 5. Lastly, we have an emotional tendency when we're young (like you) to think that everyone is like us. We also tend to think anyone not like us is in a creepy, disgusting, wrong minority. It's not true. You'll learn that soon enough as you get older and get some more life experience. I also can't wait until you're about 37 years old and suddenly want to have sex with much younger men; you should bookmark your own post and re-read it in 15 years. You'll give yourself a good laugh.
Jenna C. 2014-09-17 08:34:02
I will be sure to ask the "VYW" her situation the next time I see her with an older man if I am able to decipher whether or not it's her father or her "FB”, which I am assuming is an abbreviation for fuck buddy. You abbreviate "VYW", and again, I am assuming means very young woman, when in reality it's just a less creepy way for old men to get away with fucking teenagers. If it makes old men feel better and able to sleep easier at night to call an 18yo a young woman rather than a high school graduate, child or a kid, then by all means, but let's call a spade a spade shall we? I found this forum while I was on a mission looking for an article my girlfriend read claiming that according to OKCupid men primarily search for women between the ages of 18-23. After that it's a steady decline in searches as the women get older as the years pass. 18-23, really? As a 40-50 year old male, aside from my Barbie collection I just stowed away in my attic, what would you like to talk about? I was reading another article of yours, Blackdragon, and you claim to bang a lot of 18 and 19 year olds as a 42 year old man. Now clearly these girls have nothing more to talk about aside from getting wastey at a frat house on Friday evening and taking Mollys with her bestie the next night(Molly is a drug if the older crowd wasn't sure what I was talking about). I have no other explanation as to what you're doing with these girls except fucking them, then in that case you're just a pig using these vulnerable girls for your pleasure and release. You can give the whole comparison that men are pigs when they date younger women and cougars are welcomed with open arms as a part of society, but in reality older women most likely don't enjoy 20 something men. My brother is 24 and still plays with a Super Soaker. They're dating them to show society that "not all men like em' young." It's an older woman's proof she's still got it, but even cougars look silly dating younger men. Madonna just looks stupid. I understand guys mature a lot slower than girls, which gives older men an advantage, but not that slow us young women need to date someone 20 to 25 years our senior. Being 22 I would never date outside of a radius of 5 to 7 years older than me. After that I am just looking for a Sugar Daddy. You can tell me I am wrong, if that makes you feel better. Younger girls you catagorize as 2 and 3's enjoy the presence of an older man because it makes them feel safe and secure. It give the younger girls the feeling of stability... a fatherly figure. Old men give them a sense of maturity unlike the rest of the world who assumes because they’re only 18 they’re just children. That’s because the rest of the world is right. The old “creepy” men look beyond that because they’re dicks are hard. You reference Hugh Jackman and suggested that my girlfriends would fuck him regardless of his age being well over 40. This could very well be true, simply because he is an exception to the rule and they’re blinded by admiration because he’s a movie star. Majority of men do not look like Hugh Jackman. His job is to look good. You telling the older men who read your blog to be attractive and I just feel like you're giving the Average Joe false hope. Not everyone is spending their day on Tinder or OKCupid, or maybe they don't have the money to buy the suit that you claim teens swoon over because it remind them of their dad walking in from work after a long day at the office. Telling them to not act creepy and dress like the crowd he is trying to fit into. That’s their problem, they’re trying. Their time has expired, they had their chance to fuck, fuck, fuck in their 20's and 30's. What they did with that time was their decision. And now because he’s having a mid-life crisis it’s time to try and get your youth back. The dude who plays volleyball and takes 0 medications, I’m sure there are 52 year old women who can do the same damn thing, but you wouldn’t know that because you’re spending your days watching us 20 somethings instead. To think the world owes you something new and shiny to play with because you’re getting older and still able to play a game of volleyball. You make a good living so you’re entitled to fuck teenagers. The reasons why old men think it’s OK to accept the advances of young girls because they’re vulnerable baffles me. After reading your "3 Types of Men" it seems to me that you spend a lot of your time on the hunt for fresh pussy as the Alpha Male 2.0, while a majority of men, who ARE the pussies (according to you), are at home taking pride in watching their family grow. As a 22 year old girl with parents that have been married for over 20 years and a two year age difference, that is something I strive for. I won't be getting that with a senior citizen who's shooting blanks and can barely get it up without the help from a little blue pill. Maybe the reason why I am so critical of men seeking younger women is because it makes the common “happily married couple” unrealistic. That real and I mean REAL true love doesn't exist because women are at men's disposal when life gets rough and their wives skin starts to wrinkle. To me old men who seek teenage girls are creepers. Yes maybe these girls are willing to screw you, but as an adult male should have some restraint to realize this girl just learned her ABC’s last year and doesn’t really want old men panting and groaning as you fuck her even if she is a consenting “adult.” Again, if that makes you sleep easier at night. Like I said before, I prefer girls simply because we see beyond a round ass, big tits and fresh tight pussy. You are more than welcome to judge me and say I am putting all men in a bad light and you're not all the same, but I don't think you can do that since you do run a website giving advice to old dudes on how to get teen pussy. Hopefully I didn’t offend anyone in the process.
Blackdragon 2014-09-17 10:44:35
Your entire novel-sized post simply says "I think men who sleep with younger women is ew-icky and I'll never change my mind." Which is exactly what a Type 1 VYW is: a younger woman who thinks anyone sleeping with anyone more than a few years older is ew-icky disgusting sinister. This is your strong preference, but this is not everyone's preference. You didn't refuse a single one of the points I made to you above; not that I expected you to. (Yes, I know most older men don't look like Hugh Jackman; that was exactly my point, and something I'm trying to help change.) Feel free to respond, but if you have no new points to make other than visceral emotion about ew-icky, I probably won't be responding. You like vanilla ice cream, I like vanilla and chocolate ice cream (since I date plenty of older women too), and you think chocolate ice cream is disgusting and anyone who eats it is ew-icky. Got it. We should probably leave it at that.
gj 2014-09-17 15:02:58
I am the 52 year old guy again. I, personally am looking for a LTR/wife. I typically look for girls about 25 to 35. Most of the girls I meet that are attracted to me, and I to them, are 28-40. The two women I am currently really interested in are 36 and 40. The 40 year old is in great shape as she eats healthy and works out. I do get quite a few girls who are 21 and under who want to meet/date me, but I find they are clueless. On the other hand, my co-worker is 47, his wife is 20 and they have a 1 year old baby, and are really happy. I probably have 50 or more co-workers who are married our have a GF that is 15-30 years younger than them. There are tonnes of women in the U.S.who date guys way younger than them. A lot are 45+ who love 20+ year old guys...they love the attention and the sex. I read about a sex therapist/advice columnist who was about 75. Her live-in BF was 25 or so. If two people want to F, or LTR/get married, I say go for it...I don't care what race you are, what age, if you are gay...whatever works for you. And, on the topic the of VYG...the age of consent ranges from 12-19 around the world...Most have 15 or 16 as the age limit. There are plenty of 16-17 year old girls who know exactly what they want...just not for me. I did have one GF who just turned 19. When we meet I thought she was about 28. She acted like it, and I was shocked to find out she was 18. I haven't seen here for 4 years, but we email some times. She would marry me in a heartbeat if I asked her.
JoshuaTenor 2014-12-06 05:02:20
Nice post BD! Also, good job at breaking the situation down for Jenna. I love a logical and organized explanation.
Mark 2014-12-13 08:10:01
Recently verified this age restriction on POF. At 47 I can't get search results younger than 33. A female friend who is 49 said she never noticed that on her searches. Sure enough, while I'm sitting there she sets the search age down to 20 and had no problem getting men at that age in the results
Blackdragon 2014-12-16 14:50:31
At 47 I can’t get search results younger than 33. A female friend who is 49 said she never noticed that on her searches. Sure enough, while I’m sitting there she sets the search age down to 20 and had no problem getting men at that age in the resultsIt restricts men but not women. Can't say I'm surprised.
Lee 2015-08-02 08:43:08
3 points. 1, if site restricts only one gender, is that legal? 2, OK, so where do we go to find younger/older partners?3,lets design our own site?
Blackdragon 2015-08-04 16:54:19
lets design our own site? Haha. Look at this.
Xrm0909 2015-08-19 12:22:26
Just a thought... I have been getting quite nice responses from VYW (I am 52), I met a few (not VYW but all under 30) and had sex with 2 (I am still working on improving my game) on...seekingarrangements dot com. I am aware of the site being "sugar" oriented, kind of virtual brothel, but there are plenty of young women there who are there not for the money. They meet up with guys, apparently may also have sex with them, and NOT in exchange of money. I didn't pay those girls and the dates were in inexpensive places, just like the System requires. As I said - just a thought...
Troy 2016-07-08 07:18:29
My comment on this site we should be able to talk to whoever we want people are equal doesn't matter the age I think the site should grow up and get their s*** together because POS is kind of stupid what they do is controlling people on the age and that is not good anybody can message me any age I do not care does it mean I will go with him or do anything with them but I believe everybody should be created equal
Troy 2016-07-08 07:19:51
You on POF are controlling people what you do that is wrong we are all human beings old and young so grow up
bs182 2017-05-15 08:10:05
That site has become a joke.
Ajo 2017-10-24 22:06:52
Well well, Mr. Marcus, keeper of all that is moral. I have a new suggestion. Restrict height differences to 4". There is no reason that a 5''-4" woman should be datin a 6'-2" man. It's just obscene! So now, imagine that you are in a club. You approach that cute girl at the end of the bar, open your mouth to say hi and the bouncer jumps in between you demanding that you both show ID before you can talk! Macus, what a retard. Too bad, I thought POF was the best site out there, now its been ruined by a stupid fascist.
R.T. 2017-11-19 15:23:00
My two older brothers married women who were both 16 years younger than they are. One brother has passed away while still married to her, and the other brother is still married to the same woman... 20 years later. I guess that's gross, right Markus? Oh and btw, I would think the Federal Trade Commission would have a problem with how Markus hides the age restriction. It's unknowable until after you've tried to contact someone outside of the age restriction. And being such an absolute limitation, it should be one of the first things a potential new member sees when they're signing up.
Jeff Pilson 2017-12-12 21:13:46
On top of that POF removed their username search so when you get (fake) emails from POF saying so and so wants to meet you, you have to PAY to upgrade to see who they are, or rather you use to http://nbots.me/wt1 that tool lets you do all the username searches on POF free! HA markus (or now match.com)
DakotaMist 2018-08-11 12:24:00
Jeff Pilson, I’ve never been able to locate the user name search option while on the site. But I recently discovered a way to do it. If you simply Google “user name search on POF”, voila, there’s a link you can click on and the search option suddenly appears to the right of “Advanced Search”. I have no idea why POF has chosen to hide this option, but there IS a work-around solution. Hope this helps
ThisTexan 2019-01-30 04:59:42
I got an email notification alerting me to a new comment that read something to do about a new tool that allows men to search POF, respond to anyone without even being signed in, something of that nature. I'm not interested in POF free or not. Today I am strictly MGTOW. I have plans to move to Russia and I have absolutely no interest in US, Canadian or western women at all. I have moved on.
Steve McQueeen 2019-08-13 09:16:35
The writer of this article tells you how it is. He definitely understands how online dating works. I am one of those 50yr olds that consistently gets mistake for 30's and 40's. I would be happy to date an attractive woman my age, but it doesn't happen very often. I haven't used useless POF since they implemented this age rule. It, like most websites, is a totally a waste of time. I think the 'paying' factor makes MATCH the best deal for meeting anyone. I must say I had a nice time- a few years back- with a 28 yr old from there. The tinder, Bumble crowd (younger) is mostly there for validation and curiosity. NEVER MET ANOTHER WOMAN FROM THOSE SITES>
T 2019-10-05 14:28:59
Anyone who is sick of these restrictions can send the following form letter to the company President: Mr. Markus Frind - CEO Plentyoffish Media Inc. #142-757 West Hastings St., PMB 670, Vancouver, BC V6C 1A1 Dear Sir: Please go back to your pre-2013 messaging policy of letting everyone message everyone else. I don't like the fact that you block messages sent to those more than 14 years younger. Age is just a number. We're all adults here and should be able to make our own decisions about whom to send messages to. If someone doesn't want people beyond a certain age range sending them messages it should be THEIR responsibility to set those restrictions. It comes back to someone at the top treating members like they are adolescents who can't make responsible decisions for themselves. Sincerely,
T 2019-10-15 14:02:58
Anyone who is sick of the +-14 year age messaging restrictions on Plenty of Fish should tell everyone they know to boycott all of their paid events, paid memberships and website advertisers/sponsors until this problem is corrected. If this change seriously impacts the company's cash flow, then it will be reversed in a flash.