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I was in the car with a cute 21 year-old gal. We had just had sex for the first time and I was dropping her off at a friend's house. I pulled up to the house and stopped, and she pointed out her friend's silhouette in the window. I nodded. Then she kept on talking about something else. Oddly, she didn't just get out of the car. She wanted to sit there and keep talking while the engine was still running.
-By Caleb Jones
Finally she stopped talking, looked at me with her beautiful brown-green eyes and said carefully, "So...are you going to text me?"
Ah, I thought. So that's what was going on.
Understanding, I took her hand in mine, squeezed it, leaned forward into her gaze and and smiled warmly.
"Of course I will," I said, "We should hang out again on Friday or early next week."
I meant it and we did.
A while later I was with my 24 year-old, and while watching a movie at my place one evening she mentioned that she loved being with me but was unsure of our future together, with her desires to have kids and marry someday. I looked her right in the eye and said that as long as she never gives me any drama or demands, I would be with her for the rest of her life, both sexually and as a friend.
I meant every word of it and I will.
(Of course she's welcome to LSNFTE me any time she likes, and at some point she probably will, but there's no point in verbalizing any of that. Plus, due to my strongly outcome independent EFA, all the women in my life already know they can "break up" with me any time they like with zero complaints from me.)
Over the last several years, for my MLTRs and FBs, I have done things like:
Give them business advice and analysis, advice I normally charge (a lot of) money for.
Take them to hospital appointments and stay with them to provide moral support.
Cheer them on when taking a critical test at school, or when going on an important job interview, then celebrating with them when they do well.
Listen to their problems when no one else would, often for a very long time. (As long as they aren't complaining about me, I don't consider that drama.)
Hold them close when they cry (provided it's a genuine cry about a real problem, not "drama crying"....that shit gets an instant soft next).
Many other things I'm forgetting about at the moment (but you get the point).
Of course let's keep this stuff in perspective. I still follow the open relationship rules. I still do not promise or even imply monogamy. I don't kiss women's asses or act like their boyfriend. For example,
I virtually never hang out with an FB or MLTR without having sex. Regular sex is an absolute, unbreakable requirement in all my non-work relationships with women.
I virtually never spend any money on FBs.
I often don't spend any money on MLTRs.
I never lend women money, ever.
I don't promise or even imply monogamy.
I don't move women into my house.
I don't see any particular woman more than once a week.
That doesn't mean I don't love them though, love as in the verb. That doesn't mean I don't care for them. I do. That doesn't mean I don't have feelings for them. I do. The MLTRs I do have strong feelings for and have a real connection with. Some MLTRs will vary in how much, but they've all got it. The FBs I care for very much as close friends. And as most regular readers know, both my MLTR and FB relationships last a very long time, usually measured in years.
I have always been concerned with with all this seduction, pickup artist, alpha male badass stuff, too many guys tend to lose sight of this. And I realize that I myself may be a contributor to some of this thinking, considering the harsh words I often use at this blog and in other places.
I mean, sure, if you read some of my more harsh blog posts like this one and this one, it might be easy to think that it's good "relationship technique" to treat women coldly. It isn't, and as I often have to point out to the naysayers, these women would not stay with me as long as they do, or come back to me as regularly as they do, if I was treating them like complete crap. Being an asshole can work, but it rarely works for very long.
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you need to love (the verb) your women because women deserve it just for being women, or because we need to be a bunch of white knight beta male pussies, or because modern feminism is such a great idea, or because we need to be chivalrous like it was the 1950s, or because women will "only get serious" with needy, submissive guys. None of that shit is accurate. Obviously.
Rather, you should love your women because, practically speaking, it's the best thing to do. If you truly love the women in your life, and do it without acting like their ass-kissing (beta) boyfriend or domineering (Needy Alpha) boyfriend, then...
They will be nicer to you.
They will be happier in your presence more often.
They will place less sexual barriers in front of you during the relationship.
They will give you less drama. (This to me is the biggest benefit.)
They will make less demands on your behavior.
They will tolerate more of your "stupid Alpha Male stuff", including and especially the fact you still sleep with other women. (This to me is the second biggest benefit.)
They will stay with you longer.
They will return to you if they do leave you. And likely keep returning to you.
They will build a deeper bond and connection with you, in a very good way (for you and her.)
Yes, be an Alpha. No, don't get monogamous. Don't compromise who you are just for a failed societal construct. Yes, live your life and focus on your Mission. Yes, have sex with lots of women. But don't be a complete asshole about it. Be a little bit of a dick, sure, but not a complete a-hole. You know the difference. (If you don't, watch the Team America definition.) Love your women.
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mscurveball 2013-06-07 06:15:04
I wish more men understood this. For some reason it often seems like guys tend to think there are only two extreme ways of being - an asshole or a doormat. And, of course, that sexual relationships are naturally adversarial. It's a shame so many people (men and women both) don't just let themselves love each other and treat each other well without expectations or demands.
The Haunty Master (@Hauntymasters) 2013-06-07 07:57:19
^Good frickin' point, Mscurveball. I applaud you.
Jim 2013-06-07 09:16:24
This is a good post. Really good. I'm surprised you take them to appointments. Doing that with anyone seems very boyfriendy, let alone an FB (possibly you don't do it with FBs - it's a little unclear above). Even an MLTR could get the wrong impression though? Also interesting about what you consider drama. Only if they are bitching about you. I didn't know this. Again, fantastic post. I think this might be your best post.
Oxyjinn 2013-06-07 11:17:09
Very good BD. I"m with Jim on this one, that it's probably your best post yet. (Many guys, including me, lack this stuff, so there is more rotation than necessary).
aneroidocean 2013-06-07 12:13:58
Great, great, great post. I think this is why I've been able to maintain the open long-term relatioships that I have as well as the one long-term FB. Keep in mind that these girls are worthy. When you mix the two and really reward them for their good behaviour they want to take care of you and do things for you that are WELL worth the effort to "love" them. Above and beyond what you listed. They will really go out of their way to please you, to take care of you, to do things for you that they wouldn't do for any of their best friends. Also, you may not have mentioned it, but I think that there is some enjoyment in taking care of a woman when she really truly appreciates it. I feel that this is part of my masculinity and the truly feminine woman complements it well.
aneroidocean 2013-06-07 12:14:23
Reblogged this on aneroidocean and commented: My comment on this great post on the Blackdragon Blog: Great, great, great post. I think this is why I've been able to maintain the open long-term relatioships that I have as well as the one long-term FB. Keep in mind that these girls are worthy. When you mix the two and really reward them for their good behaviour they want to take care of you and do things for you that are WELL worth the effort to "love" them. Above and beyond what you listed. They will really go out of their way to please you, to take care of you, to do things for you that they wouldn't do for any of their best friends. Also, you may not have mentioned it, but I think that there is some enjoyment in taking care of a woman when she really truly appreciates it. I feel that this is part of my masculinity and the truly feminine woman complements it well.
Greg 2013-06-07 15:03:07
I had no idea you work this much for what you receive from them... Do you enjoy providing them all those things? If you live in abundance, why bother? Why not just weed out the high maintenance ones (or rather let them weed themselves out) and keep the ones you don't have to work for? Have you even tried being an asshole, or are you just theorizing? The women who gave me the MOST, I was not monogamous to, I did not spend money on them (though I spent their money), I would shut them up whenever I felt like it, I would have them do chores for me, I saw them a lot more than once a week, they knew damn well they had no overt power over me, they were always sexually available to me, I did not always make them cum, etc. They lasted 1 year, 1 year and 3 years. Then again, they were a 3, a 5 and a 6, but your skills should thrash mine.
Blackdragon 2013-06-07 15:40:26
I’m surprised you take them to appointments. Doing that with anyone seems very boyfriendy, let alone an FB (possibly you don’t do it with FBs – it’s a little unclear above). Even an MLTR could get the wrong impression though?It's not something I do regularly, or even often. But I have done it. Yes, I have done it for FBs but that's admittedly rare.
Also interesting about what you consider drama. Only if they are bitching about you. I didn’t know this.Yep! Per my definition from my Glossary page (emphasis mine): Drama – Any harsh negative actions directed from a woman to man where the man is the target of said negativity. Screaming, nagging, complaining, arguing, demands, crying, threats, ultimatums, the “silent treatment”, refusing sex because of non-medical reasons, all of these things are drama, and there are many others. Drama is not “anything negative”. Specifically, it must be harsh (sweetly lying would not be considered drama) and focused at the man (angrily complaining about her boss at work would not be considered drama). Drama is a female trait. (Men have guy-drama.) Sounds like a good idea for a blog post; to clarify.
I had no idea you work this much for what you receive from them… Do you enjoy providing them all those things?I'm not sure how I gave the impression I "work so much". I don't. These are things I have done. Not things I do regularly. If I was doing this stuff all the time, then yeah, I'd be a boyfriend. My women also do chores (one cleans on entire house regularly), they often pay for dates and similar, always pay their own travel expenses, know damn well they have zero control over me, etc. So being a little nice occasionally does not invalidate all the other benefits of nonmonogamous relationships.
Greg 2013-06-08 07:57:10
Ah, I see. Come to think of it, I can find instances of doing stuff like that too. I got the impression you do this often ("Listen to their problems when no one else would, often for a very long time.").
Rose 2013-06-08 15:52:35
This is an awesome post. It's good to be respectful and still be able to set your boundaries.
Jack 2013-06-08 18:56:19
BD, This is off topic and I don't know if you will answer it but... I did a search and couldn't find anything directly on target. You recommend a 2 date model whereas most PUAs recommend a one date model. Chase Amante, who I read regularly, argues that every date past the 1st diminishes your chances dramatically. But here's the thing, I'm 42 and my skills are not that great (I'm learning). But I've noticed that for women over 32 it is very hard to get 1st date sex. Hell, getting it by the third date is difficult. Is it the case that 40+ men should generally use 2 or 3 date models for women? I've noticed that even good PUAs that are older (like Krauser PUA for example who is 38) have sex with new girls on the 2nd date most often (sometimes even the 3rd). I think the age of the girl matters too. As you point out, its easier to seduce a 20 something girl than a 33+ year old. If you've written a blog post on this that I've missed, my apologies. But the reason I ask you is that you are older. Most PUA instructors are between 25 and 35 and their target age range for women is 18-25. I try with girls that age but the age range of the women I have been dating is 27+ and usually 33-38. You're the PUA who has the most experience with this which is why I ask you. Thanks.
Jack 2013-06-09 05:32:37
@Jack (great name, by the way): You need to get BD's book regarding how to seduce younger women ASAP. Yes, women over 33 are harder to get to sex with fast. He explains everything in the book. Women over 33 feel they're being generous in bed for the man, whereas the younger ones see the sex as more for them (the women).
Blackdragon 2013-06-09 10:41:27
What Jack said. (The 2nd one.) Yes, unless you're a very young six-pack guy, women over age 33 you don't already know are the hardest women to sleep with quickly. It's just a reality; one I've discussed here many times before. I'm not saying it's impossible. I've done it, but it requires extra time and effort that is rarely worth it. The easy answer is do what I do: stick with women age 32 and under (unless you already know them, which does make social circle game an option for over 33s). However your 1 date model vs. 2 date model is a very good idea for a blog post. I think I'll do that. (Chase is a great guy by the way.)
Blackdragon 2013-06-10 11:06:22
Thanks for the reblog aneroidocean! You couldn't have paid a higher compliment.
Jack 2013-06-10 17:37:08
However your 1 date model vs. 2 date model is a very good idea for a blog post. Great. I look forward to it. Yes, I intend to buy the book. And now more so that I know it deals with this subject.
Mike 2013-06-12 07:31:10
Thanks for this post Blackdragon. I first came to your stuff after reading a TON of "pickup" material. So this is where I went WRONG. Thanks to your material, I actually started bringing women into my life regularly. But I was missing this element... I didn't love them. Funnily enough, that's why I got into this whole thing in the first place! And now I found myself finally starting to achieve my goal, but feeling absolutely nothing. Obviously girls could sense this. And so even though I was using your techniques to keep girls around for years, they'd leave after a few months. Because what was the point in staying? So now I make sure to put love first. I don't hang out with a girl I'm incapable of feeling love towards. And you're right about it being a verb. I don't think it's about being "in love"... it's about loving, and fully FEELING that love while you're with a girl you enjoy being around.
0--- 2013-07-01 07:59:11
Great great post. I've been doing this all along in my journey, though I didn't talk about it much on sedfast, because I thought it was too far off the "PUA Mainstream", especially given all the harsh-sounding relationship advice from guys like you and Tubarao. It's refreshing to see that we are on the same page here. I have women that I seduced very early on (2,5 years ago), and who I later on talked about the problems in their life at length and offered perspective and comfort. They are still in touch with me and tell me that I have been and am a very important person in their life. It's not always easy to meet up because I've moved countries and have too many plans, but when the opportunity arises, they are always up for it. The more women like this who are always willing to be your friend and sexual partner (depending on their romantic situation at the time), the more "abundance mentality" is never a problem again.
Chester Livingston 2017-05-11 09:24:06
Very good post. Really great! I make sure to put love first. I don’t date girls if I am not feeling love towards. Interesting about what you think is drama. Again, thank you for the wonderful post.
G 2019-01-03 18:57:53
What about if they want to keep in touch with you when they have a boyfriend? How do you verbalise that you don't want to do this if they have, say, a hospital appointment?
Nitish Shaw 2019-07-09 04:58:17
Great post! *slightly differ with Hemingway on the use of exclamations 😛 * I've been and continue to be with a few women, and it has mostly been a great experience. I'm from India, and sex here is still a "hush hush" topic or act. But, wherever you are, people are basically the same. It's only difficult in countries like India because of the societal norms. I'll be honest.. For me sex is a bit of an emotional construct among other factors. That is not to say that I can't enjoy it with multiple partners simultaneously or at a time. All you gotta do is not be a complete asshole, and show some respect. Life is better and easier that way.
Stop Worrying About #MeToo - The Blackdragon Blog - The Pelican Press 2019-08-04 21:15:06
[…] You should also avoid one night stands like I do, perhaps avoid drugs and alcohol like I do, and be nice to women like I am. Fine. But not one guy who has asked me one of these “oh no what about #MeToo???” questions was […]
RedPillSwingerPL 2020-05-21 22:09:41
Women tend to behave only after you've inserted it in their vaginas. Beforehand they tend to be pretty disgusting beings who will do all sorts of unreasonably disrespectful things (ghosting, lying, gold digging, bitching etc etc). This being said, treating them right is something you should hand out after they qualify to you. This post is amazing and resonates with my life experience, but what you didn't say is even more precious than what you said. If you limit this behaviour to the ones you're already fucking then it's the right thing to do. It's beneficial for both and it's better than any asshole game you might wanna try. However, if you do that before any sexual encounter or at least the reasonable expectation that sex is on the way you're as good as screwed.