Get Free Email Updates!
Join us for FREE to get instant email updates!
Online Dating vs. Daygame and Night Game
Most guys have very strong biases regarding what types of game are "best". I've seen some pretty big arguments about this. I'm going to lay out online dating as it compares to the other three types of game. As most of you know, online game is my game style of choice, but I will still try to be as objective as possible.
-By Caleb Jones
Night Game - Clubs, bars, parties, and similar.
Daygame - Malls, stores, on the street, and similar, usually during the daytime.
Online Game - Online dating.
Social Circle Game - Meeting women via other people you already know socially or at work.
Sometimes guys get all esoteric and talk about things like "dance floor game" (really night game) or "street game" (really daygame), but in reality, every possible way you could meet a woman will fall into one of the four above categories. The only possible exception I can think of would be "celebrity game" when you're famous and fans/groupies are throwing themselves at you, but we aren't celebrities so that's not even worth discussing.
All Game Styles Work
Let's get this out of the way first. Any person who says X type of game sucks or doesn't work is lying. All four types of game work. All four types of game will get you laid assuming you do them correctly.
We're not talking about which "suck" and which are "good". Rather, all four types of game have advantages and disadvantages as compared to the other styles. You may have noticed that I have never said online game is "the best" or that "night game sucks" or "social circle game is for pussies" or whatever. There is no "best" type of game.
That being said, there are certain game styles that work better for certain types of guys. If you're a younger, extremely extroverted guy who doesn't need to get up early for a job, you're going to love night game. If you're an introverted, very busy guy, you're going to love online game. Etc.
The arguments tend to start when guys use men doing their chosen game style incorrectly as examples. For example, a club game devotee points out how much time men waste having long online conversations that never end up as a real life date. Therefore, he says, online game "sucks".
No, the reality is that guy is doing online game wrong. I can say the same exact thing about night game when I point out all these PUA idiots hanging around the clubs going for "k-closes" and "makeouts". (Makeouts? Don't you want to have sex?) Does that mean night game "sucks"? Not at all. Night game works if you do it right, just like online game.
Every style of game works if you do it right. Sometimes that's a big "if".
Here are the areas where online game is better than other game types:
1. It is the most time-management friendly system for laying new women. This one is indisputable and is the top of the list. It is the number one reason, by far, why I chose online game as my focus area and why I continue to do so even after all of these years.
With night game, daygame, and even social circle game, in order to meet women you have to get dressed, make sure you look good, leave your house, get into a car or bus, go somewhere, often spend some money when you get there, then stay there, often for hours and hours.
If you meet a woman who likes you but doesn't want to have sex right that evening, then you have to do a "day2" and do it all over again, individually for every woman. With online dating, you can literally sit in your underwear, in your own home or wherever you are, and click a few buttons. You can do this for 5 minutes or an hour...it's all valid effort.
2. You can do it whenever the hell you want. The huge problem with night game is that it must be done at night, usually very late at night. In the majority of night game lay reports I've seen, heard, or read, both in real life and online, the sex is usually happening well after 2am.
That's great, but some of us have jobs we need to get to in the morning. Staying out until 3am to get laid on Tuesday night is going to seriously ruin my Wednesday at work, even if I don't have to get up super early. "Well that's why you do it on Friday and Saturday nights, Blackdragon!" So I only get two nights a week to practice and get good and get laid? Not a recipe for success in my view. When I was learning this stuff, I had to focus on it many days a week in order to get good; two days a week would not have cut it.
Same deal with daygame. I've done daygame myself back in the day (pun intended) but one of the reasons I didn't like it is because I could only do it between about 4pm, when my work was usually done, and about 7pm when things started to close and women started to go home. You could certainly do daygame later in the evening or earlier in the day, but often there aren't enough women shopping or eating at those hours.
Night game must be done late in the evening, daygame must be done during the daytime, and social circle game must be done when your friends are available. But online game can be done literally whenever the hell you want. 2am, 10am, noon, 4pm, 6pm, midnight, whenever you have some free time, the dating sites are there and the women are on them.
It is true that you must have first dates with online game and those must obviously be done in real life. However, first dates are scheduled at your convenience, whenever you want them. You decide when to schedule these dates, not the game style. That kind of flexibility can't be beat.
3. You don't need to worry about approach avoidance, and usually don't have to worry about the negative emotions behind rejection. This is the more obvious reason why many men choose online dating, and the reason why more traditional PUA guys tend to look down on online game. It takes very little courage to send out 50 openers to 50 random women. If none of those women like you, you don't really feel it.
That being said, there are still right and wrong ways to construct your online dating profile and send out openers, and you can indeed waste a huge amount of time online if you're doing these things wrong. The point here is that online game usually doesn't require the emotional build-me-up stuff that night game and daygame often require.
4. You can open mass numbers of women much faster. This one is huge. How much time would it take you to open 50 women you think are attractive while walking around a mall? I can send 50 openers in less than 45 minutes. Try to beat that with daygame. Or night game for that matter.
With some of the new apps like Tinder this feature is getting even faster. God knows what the future holds as this aspect gets better and better.
Okay, to be objective about this, now let's tackle the big negatives of online dating. There are several.
1. Hordes of ugly chicks. This is probably the biggest complaint I hear about online dating, and it's a valid one. In order to find the cute girls, you're going to have to comb through piles and piles of ugly ones. It's just the nature of the beast. This takes time and effort. It can also be demoralizing.
This is where night game kicks online game's ass. In night game you have a concentrated group of hot girls all lined up before you, whereas online game tends to be a needle-in-a-haystack process. The fact remains that even very overweight, very ugly women know they can go online and if they're reasonably young (under 35 or so), they're going to get literally hundreds of messages from guys dying to fuck them. This means lots of ugly women on the dating sites, particularly the free ones. (The paid sites like Match.com do have noticeably better looking women on them.)
2. Low response rates. For various reasons, response rates online are indeed starting to get lower than in years past. Even mine have taken a hit (though online dating still works and I still regularly get laid with ease). It's tough when you've sent out 100 openers and only get two responses...or zero responses. This is still not as bad as women rejecting you via daygame or night game, but it's still a serious problem.
3. Creates an emotional bias against real-life closing. While I have personally never had this problem, lots of guys online have a strong emotional need to keep talking to a woman while online and actively avoid pitching the real-life date, either "too soon" or ever. Something about online dating creates an environment for caution in ways the other game styles don't suffer from. I've seen lots of men waste huge amounts of time and emotion on this. Bad.
4. Dating sites continuously imposing more restrictions on men. I've already talked about POF's insane antics, though other sites like OKCupid, Lovestruck, and Match.com are not without their problems either. Every year more dating sites create more restrictions against their male customers, while night game, daygame, and social circle game remain the same.
5. It's harder to see what you're getting. The greatest thing about daygame, at least in my opinion, is that you see exactly what you're getting. That cute girl with the fantastic ass you met at the grocery store is going to look exactly the same (or better!) on your first date / day2.
In night game, guys have told me all kinds of funny stories about about how horrified they are when they see that "hot chick" the next day...in full daylight with less makeup on. Online game suffers from the same problem, only worse. Sometimes women don't look like they advertise. Often women don't have full-body pictures on their profiles. And how do you know if a woman has a great ass from her profile?
This is where daygame and social circle game beat out online game...you know exactly what you're getting. It is for this reason alone that I will occasionally dip my foot back into daygame occasionally.
Type of Guy
Online dating / online game is generally ideal for the following types of guys:
Men who are very busy.
Men who have time consuming and/or inflexible jobs or businesses.
Introverts (But remember, being an introvert is not an excuse for being a pussy.)
Men who know how to write well.
Men who dislike the loudness and energy of a club environment (though daygame may also be an option for you).
Men who have no other access to attractive women in his normal day-to-day life.
Men too old for clubs.
Men who have a very specific "type" and want to stay focused on that.
Online dating / online game is generally NOT good for the following types of guys:
"Thrill Of The Hunt" men, men who like pickup/seduction to be "hard", since pulling off difficult lays gives them a rush and a sense of accomplishment that easier lays do not. (Online game is definitely for guys who like things "easy".)
Men who like/need to see immediate reactions from women visually or emotionally during pickup.
Men who love clubs, bars, and/or who generally love hanging out with people.
It's best to find the game style that is most compatible with your personality and lifestyle, even if it's not online game. Men who successfully match their game style to who they are will experience less stress and faster results.
Multiple Game Styles?
This usually begs the question: "Why not do multiple styles at once?"
My answer has always been NO, unless you have completely, 100% mastered one of the game styles already.
If you're a beginner or intermediate at this stuff, you should pick ONE style and focus on it completely. Get good at it. Once you can literally get laid from it whenever you like, then branch out to the other styles if you want. But don't dilute your efforts by focusing on multiple styles at once.
Back in the day, I was doing online game and daygame. I quickly realized that daygame was diluting my online efforts, so I stopped doing daygame altogether. Now that I've mastered online game, I poke around with daygame. I will get back into daygame as a regular system at some point. (I do keep putting this off...I'm in no rush since online game and resurrecting old LSNFTEs works so well. With all these women it's hard for me to get motivated enough to get off my ass and do daygame on a regular basis. Talk about a quality problem.)
So if you're trying to get good, pick ONE style, focus on it 100%, and get good. You'll thank me later.
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.
Get Free Email Updates!
Join us for FREE to get instant email updates!
Lee 2013-09-26 05:48:06
I have also noticed a lower reply rate and wondered why? perhaps that and a contingency to handle it could be a new BD article. maybe a secrets one for all us subscribers and regular posters?.someone is getting lots of hot babes online, why isn't is us??
Diggy 2013-09-26 08:51:56
I think the "romance" for women is gone from online dating. Ten years ago it was looked at as taboo, for losers. Then online dating was all the rage for women and socially acceptable five years ago. The "romance" has died however, thanks to tons of dick photos! I started asking my dates and platonic friends if I could see their inbox for educational purposes. Most let me... it was like a running joke of how bad it was. I think most of the women still doing online dating are either resilient or stupid. But the good ones have reverted back to bars and social circles. Its kinda a waste of time both directions these days and I blame the sites themselves and the loser dudes with no skills. Ive always been drawn to day game. Just my style. Ive been really successful....so I continue. It was brought to my attention some time ago that women hate this. They have things to be doing and youre stopping them to spit game. But I hardly ever get that "fuck off" attitude. So do women hate the day game approach or is it they just hate poor day game? Any thoughts?
Alejandro 2013-09-26 10:09:06
You left out a huge, critical aspect about online game. Online game is also not guys for guy who... Don't live in a very big area or live in a place where online game is not very popular. The number of avaliable women online is probably the most important factor to consider. I live in a city of around 300.000 people with a relavely high number of parties, nightclubs, etc (student town). But online, is completely impossible for me to find more than 20 women who have been online. Most of my openers "burst" have been around 15-20 women per MONTH. I always get so jealous whenever I read about guys sending 30-50 messages per week...there is no way I am goin to send that amount of messages without emailing girls who live like 3 hours away. Also, women online are like 10 times more picky regarding looks. So if you dont have at least a relatively good looking face, chances are online game is not for you either. Sure, you can pay a profesional to take very nice photos but if you are not good looking great photos will not do any miracles. So for some men online game can only be a complement to regular game, not the main one.
Dean Joseph 2013-09-26 15:03:23
I was with this one girl and she showed her OK Cupid account. The amount of messages she had was insurmountable! She said its like being harassed by her phone. Also a lot of those messages while smartly written was cut and paste numbers.
Blackdragon 2013-09-26 15:20:14
I have also noticed a lower reply rate and wondered why? perhaps that and a contingency to handle it could be a new BD article.Good idea! Though frankly, the contingency is simply, "more of the same".
You left out a huge, critical aspect about online game. Online game is also not guys for guy who… Don’t live in a very big area or live in a place where online game is not very popular.Very true. Online game isn't feasible for guys who live in small towns.
I think the “romance” for women is gone from online dating. Ten years ago it was looked at as taboo, for losers. Then online dating was all the rage for women and socially acceptable five years ago. The “romance” has died however, thanks to tons of dick photos!I agree the novelty has warn off, however online dating has become more socially acceptable, not less. One of the reasons for the decline in response rates is not because there are less women online, but the women on there are starting to consider sites like OKCupid as a backup to Facebook...just another social media site in which to "talk" to people and get social validation. Yeah...I really need to do another blog post about this.
Blackdragon 2013-09-26 15:24:14
Also, women online are like 10 times more picky regarding looks. So if you dont have at least a relatively good looking face, chances are online game is not for you either.I realize that's the common wisdom but it's not true if you do everything else right and focus on putting in the numbers. I once worked with a guy who was over 350 pounds. I've also worked with a guy earlier this year who was REALLY ugly, by his own admission. Both are getting laid...online. But, they do *everything* else right, put in the numbers, and don't get discouraged like most guys do. I do agree it's a factor though, and uglier guys are going to have a harder time, and the quality of woman is going to (usually) be reduced. Very true.
Bo 2013-09-27 16:33:53
I've noticed over the years that more and more Alpha types who presumably do well with other game styles (night, social, day) are using dating sites as well. I was recently poking around pof looking at L.A. area profiles and it seems half the guys in that area are male-model types with headshots in amongst their profile pics. Not the case in years past. This could be a good explanation for the lower response rates.
Nemausus 2013-09-27 17:59:33
Online game really helped me "swallow the red pill" as the expression goes. It helped me adopt an attitude of abundance and get women off the pedestal. Once I got my online game in order, I was securing regular dates. With more dates, comes more interaction, more confidence, more lays, etc. and the whole mystery that are women demystifies very quickly. As an INTJ Myers-Briggs guy (introverted), no one will ever confuse me with the Alpha-Caveman type. But with the abundance and practice that online dating provided me, I'm now much more confident around women and project that confidence when I'm in a social situation, be it one-on-one or in small groups at a party. Online dating was the launching pad for me. Now I can now find success in other forms of game as well.
Bastardly 2013-09-28 08:58:32
BD: I agree with what you say about online game being the most time savy. UNLESS you do day game optimally. I do this in my day to day life by picking up women when I go to the bank, the library, the grocery store, the book store, the gas station- because attractive women are everywhere and often have their guard down in those situations and appriciate a carefree guy swooping in and brightening up their day (then get number, make plans, build comfort over phone before hand, etc). I've done every type of game to some level of success and the above has been the best for time management. But picking up women at the gas station does take big balls.
Bastardly 2013-09-28 09:01:32
And you're 100% correct about picking one style. My day game really suffered when I was doing that and online at the same time. Stop with the online and bam, day game goes back to solid in no time.
Bastardly 2013-09-28 09:03:07
By all that I mean I pick up women when I have business going to said places.
Greg 2013-09-28 10:52:46
I'd consider online game to be the weakest of the 3, so it should only be used as side line to doing approaches in the real world, because of the fact that women online who are at least an 8 on the attractiveness scale, get massively bombarded with messages, so in 99% of cases, are only going to be accepting of and responsive to, guys who are at least an 8 themselves from their photos and who such women perceive to be as attractive as they themselves are, or more attractive they themselves are. Run a fake recon guy profile of a dude with photos clearly showing he's at least a 9 in his looks and see what happens. In day and night game, where you can talk, touch, smile and exude charisma, a guy who's a 7, can feasibly get laid with women who are an 8 and higher, if he's developed solid inner and outer game and his shit together with his game and his life.
Diggy 2013-09-28 11:17:42
@Nemausus Hey brother, I had the exact same experience with online game. Im an INTJ also. The first three times I did online was a disaster, the last time I became really good and successful thanks to many of the PUAs and BD directly. I always looked at online gaming at the training grounds for the real game. I used that success to move into day game. I hate club/bars/night game... Im guessing many INTJs do. But day game is really powerful if you get comfortable with it and apply the same techniques. Start by hitting festival or places where its a social gathering and then move on to anywhere you see some one that catches you eye. Skys the limit... INTJ doesnt mean you have to stay with online. BD has a good guide for introverts too.. Just a thought.
Blackdragon 2013-09-30 10:26:19
@Bastardly - I agree that daygame can be made time efficient if you do it a certain way. I'm wanting to experiment with a few methods myself. The trouble is, the way you're describing it is on-they-fly daygame, and you can't get any regularly predictable results that way. I agree with your overall point though. @Greg - You're more or less right. But putting in the big numbers solves that problem. At least it has for me (and many other non-good-looking guys I know).
Phero Joe 2015-10-26 12:30:20
Some of the most valuable advice I ever received about getting women was to work on yourself and make yourself of higher value. What really irks me about the PUA industry a while back when it was getting popular (not sure about it now, just doing research to see how things have developed over the years), was that people were giving themselves affirmations of “I am the prize!”… but never really doing anything about making that true. For me, it was too fake and just a facade that would eventually crumble. Developing quality personality traits like good communication skills, a fit mind and body, and working on getting ahead professionally has helped immensely with women, although my success is a result of overall success – not just with any type of “game” specifically. Phero Joe http://houseofpheromones.com
Minister 2016-02-14 06:13:09
As far an online dating is concerned, in my experience women of all ages have high ASD. In the back of their head, they are thinking that a man who is dating online, is actually looking for an ONS or wants to get laid from the first date. This is why they are on guard and they show up cold. Maybe, the over 33 category overdoes it, although because of my age they have never given me any bullshit and they were the typical cougars. So, if you go pull the trigger with such women, you will either get shot down, or they will kiss you and then go insecure that you are a player. If you don't make a move, again you the odds of seeing them again are not good. At least, refraining from kissing has not worked out for me. I really don't know what is the best technique to deal with high ASD women. It is weird why they online date in the first place, since they have so many insecurities about a guy on the Internet.
Ghorry 2016-02-23 01:30:29
Yeap, same with me. Every single woman I date online comes up cold and doesn't let me make a move on the first meet. Here is what I do: I come close to her face and say that she smells really good. If she turns her face around and is negative, I skip the kiss, or else I go for it. Still losing some 2nd dates with chicks I don't kiss, though. Seriously man, I don't know why they go on a date if they are so suspicious about online dating. Women, go figure... I wonder what Blackdragon has to say on this.
Eric 2016-05-02 21:43:30
Day game is my style. Nightclubs are nice... lots of good looking women concentrated into one place. But those nights usually end sloppy for me. I live in a large area so online is working out well. Nice article
Edward 2016-06-08 17:44:08
Do you think Daygame/Nightgame would be better than online dating for an 18 year old? I think I'm automatically perceived with a lower SMV just because of my age alone ha. I actually received a rejection just for that reason: "Not interested your too young. Sorry!" Then again, she was 23 lol. But who knows, I'm putting in a deeper thought that the one message can represent my desirability level online for more women on a broader scale.
Blackdragon 2016-06-08 22:16:12
Do you think Daygame/Nightgame would be better than online dating for an 18 year old?Not if you look 18 or younger. You'll have a tough time with older women no matter what. Keep going for the women in their early 20s. Many won't care (but yeah, many will). Also focus on women 18-19, who won't care. Frankly, the fastest way for you to get to sex will be younger cougars, like early 30s.
TJ 2018-02-18 13:08:58
@ Minister Most women on dating sites are looking for LTRs and male attention and are thus, unavailable to guys like us who are looking to get laid QUICKLY. I myself ended up on a lot of "go nowhere dates" with women from the internet until I realized this. Now I spend much more time "screening" during the initial interaction so as to weed the time wasters/boyfriend seekers out and significantly increase my chances of ending up on dates with DTF girls.
Angelos 2018-08-08 00:11:15
Which book or site do you suggest for daygame?