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Holding an attractive woman in your arms who clearly wants you to give her good lovin' yet resists all attempts to do so because she's "not a slut!" or "not a whore!" or "I'm a lady!" or "it's only the second date!" or "I have a five date rule!" or any of the other completely unnecessary societally programmed bullshit women falsely believe they must adhere to is indeed the most frustrating, maddening thing about dating there is. (At least in my opinion.) I fought this for years before I learned what I was doing wrong and changed things around, but going through that process was very painful at times.
-By Caleb Jones
Over the last few months I've seen an increase in a recurring problem with guys. A guy will report the following issue:
I keep having a problem where I can meet women, get them on dates, and get laid, but they never stick around. We have sex maybe once or twice, and then they tell me that "we want different things" or that they want "more than sex" or something, and then they're gone.
Another variation of the same problem is:
Usually when I meet a woman, I can get her to a date or day2 no problem. But I can't close the deal. She starts telling me that I'm "a player" or that I "just want sex".
It's the same problem in both cases: The guy is exhibiting too much "player". By doing so, he's putting a woman's ASD on full alert. So either he doesn't get laid, or he does get laid once or twice until the woman's buyer's remorse (also caused by ASD) goes full-blast and she vanishes. If you've encountered either problem, especially with more than one woman, this article is for you.
The Good News
Realize that your problem is a very good one to have. An AFC who isn't getting laid at all, or has to work very hard to get women interested in him, has much more work ahead of him than you do. You simply need to tweak your game and frame a little. So don't feel too bad...most men have it much worse than you.
Secondly, if you're getting this far with women, you likely have no trouble at all with confidence and Outcome Independence, which is 80% of your success with women at least. Therefore I don't need to lecture you on those two areas like I have to with most other guys. Well done and pat yourself on the back for that. Lastly, women clearly like you, so that's not your problem. I know that's small comfort, but again, that's a huge hurdle for millions of other men out there.
The Bad News
It's an extremely frustrating problem. Hey, I've been there too. We've all had the experience of being out on a first, second, or third date with a woman and it's very clear she wants to have sex with you, but she "can't" because of her stupid I'm Not A Slut™ dating rulebook. This especially applies to women over age 33.
It's great when a woman isn't attracted to you at all and makes that clear. No problem, have a nice life, then WOOSH!, I'm outta there and onto the next woman like a streak of light. But a woman who is attracted to you but won't have sex with you because of her own false Societal Programming...grrrr. As I've said before, the yeses are good, the nos are good, the maybes will kill you.
It gets worse. While societal ASD isn't your fault (unless you're a slut shamer), the fact you're getting all this resistance is your fault (assuming she's under the age of 33; more on this in a minute). You're acting too much like a player, whether you're aware of it or not.
I keep having a problem where I can meet women, get them on dates, and get laid, but they never stick around. We have sex maybe once or twice, and then they tell me that "we want different things" or that they want "more than sex" or something, and then they're gone.
Another variation of the same problem is:
Usually when I meet a woman, I can get her to a date or day2 no problem. But I can't close the deal. She starts telling me that I'm "a player" or that I "just want sex".
It's the same problem in both cases: The guy is exhibiting too much "player". By doing so, he's putting a woman's ASD on full alert. So either he doesn't get laid, or he does get laid once or twice until the woman's buyer's remorse (also caused by ASD) goes full-blast and she vanishes. If you've encountered either problem, especially with more than one woman, this article is for you.
The Good News
Realize that your problem is a very good one to have. An AFC who isn't getting laid at all, or has to work very hard to get women interested in him, has much more work ahead of him than you do. You simply need to tweak your game and frame a little. So don't feel too bad...most men have it much worse than you.
Secondly, if you're getting this far with women, you likely have no trouble at all with confidence and Outcome Independence, which is 80% of your success with women at least. Therefore I don't need to lecture you on those two areas like I have to with most other guys. Well done and pat yourself on the back for that. Lastly, women clearly like you, so that's not your problem. I know that's small comfort, but again, that's a huge hurdle for millions of other men out there.
The Bad News
It's an extremely frustrating problem. Hey, I've been there too. We've all had the experience of being out on a first, second, or third date with a woman and it's very clear she wants to have sex with you, but she "can't" because of her stupid I'm Not A Slut™ dating rulebook. This especially applies to women over age 33.
It's great when a woman isn't attracted to you at all and makes that clear. No problem, have a nice life, then WOOSH!, I'm outta there and onto the next woman like a streak of light. But a woman who is attracted to you but won't have sex with you because of her own false Societal Programming...grrrr. As I've said before, the yeses are good, the nos are good, the maybes will kill you.
It gets worse. While societal ASD isn't your fault (unless you're a slut shamer), the fact you're getting all this resistance is your fault (assuming she's under the age of 33; more on this in a minute). You're acting too much like a player, whether you're aware of it or not.
The Opposite of Player
The opposite of "player" is what I usually call "provider". Don't get hung up on the specific terms. "Player" could easily be called "lover" or "Alpha". "Provider" could be called "AFC" or "beta". I'm also not saying it's always bad to provide for a woman. Let's just not argue about nomenclature; you get the point. For this article I'm going to call it player vs. provider.
If you're too much player, does that mean you should act like a provider? Hell no. Acting like the typical, needy, boyfriendish AFC is a dangerous place to be. It means more expensive dates, lower lay ratios, longer meet-to-lay times, more drama, less freedom, less sex in the long run, and more owning-your-balls type relationships. Bad all over. So if we can't be a provider, but can't be too much player, what's the answer?
The 85/15 Rule
I first discussed this concept on the old forums way back in 2010. After years of testing, I found this to be the best way for a "normal" guy to get laid as fast as possible with high odds of success. In the years since 2010, I have had no indication whatsoever that I was wrong.
The concept is this: For most guys, the ideal combination for both fast seduction and quality, long lasting nonmonogamous relationships is to be 85% player, 15% provider.
Let me qualify that before I hear the objections:
If your goal is nothing but one night stands and/or single night lays, and/or if your entire pickup game is done via night game and nothing else, then 100% player is fine. Stick with that. If you are well under the age of 30, and all the women you go after are under the age of about 23, then 100% player is probably okay. Stick with it if you wish.
If you are the typical societally-programmed man and your goal is to get into a Disney monogamous relationship or marriage with a perfect girl who is Not Like The Rest™, then go ahead and crank up the provider from 15% to 50%, 70%, or even 100%. I'd hate to be you, and I'm not sure why you're reading this blog, but hey, it's your life. But if your goals and methods are similar to mine, in that you want to get laid as fast as humanly possible via going out on dates, and the women you're dealing with are anywhere from age 18 to 32, and absolute monogamy is not your goal, then 85% player, 15% provider is the best way to go.
The exception to the rule (and you knew this was coming) is women over age 33. 85/15 won't help you at all with women this age. Trouble is, 100% player will also not work (unless you are under the age of about 27 and are extremely good looking or ripped and can do the whole "good-looking-poor-guy" thing well). 100% player will repel over-33 women very fast, and often offend them to boot. 100% provider might work on these women, assuming you don't mind five, six, or seven expensive dinner dates plus monogamy commitments before you ever get to sex. To be clear, 85/15 will work best for men of any age focusing on women under the age of 33.
The 85/15 rule means you are a player and clearly demonstrating it. However, you also have little hints of provider that sneak out and show themselves to her. Example Of A 100% Player
Here’s how it might look with the 100% player guy:
He’s good-looking but not dressed in anything expensive. He has a crazy, cool hairdo and sexual eyes. He talks about fun, surface-level topics. He’s got a very sexual frame and kinos a lot, with lots of confidence. He does not talk about money, career, or job, and if she brings up those topics he blows them off to get back to the fun topics (like sex or snowboarding or whatever). He talks about how much he loves to drink, party, and have fun. He’s cocky, smart-alecky, and funny. He doesn’t do much to demonstrate his intelligence, just his sexual frame.
Nothing wrong with 100% player at all. However, unless this guy is at a club late in the evening, this guy may sometimes get resistance from women because they're thinking he's "a player!". Thanks to Societal Programming, ASD, and slut shaming, women don't want to get "played", even if they are very attracted to the guy.
The opposite of "player" is what I usually call "provider". Don't get hung up on the specific terms. "Player" could easily be called "lover" or "Alpha". "Provider" could be called "AFC" or "beta". I'm also not saying it's always bad to provide for a woman. Let's just not argue about nomenclature; you get the point. For this article I'm going to call it player vs. provider.
If you're too much player, does that mean you should act like a provider? Hell no. Acting like the typical, needy, boyfriendish AFC is a dangerous place to be. It means more expensive dates, lower lay ratios, longer meet-to-lay times, more drama, less freedom, less sex in the long run, and more owning-your-balls type relationships. Bad all over. So if we can't be a provider, but can't be too much player, what's the answer?
The 85/15 Rule
I first discussed this concept on the old forums way back in 2010. After years of testing, I found this to be the best way for a "normal" guy to get laid as fast as possible with high odds of success. In the years since 2010, I have had no indication whatsoever that I was wrong.
The concept is this: For most guys, the ideal combination for both fast seduction and quality, long lasting nonmonogamous relationships is to be 85% player, 15% provider.
Let me qualify that before I hear the objections:
If your goal is nothing but one night stands and/or single night lays, and/or if your entire pickup game is done via night game and nothing else, then 100% player is fine. Stick with that. If you are well under the age of 30, and all the women you go after are under the age of about 23, then 100% player is probably okay. Stick with it if you wish.
If you are the typical societally-programmed man and your goal is to get into a Disney monogamous relationship or marriage with a perfect girl who is Not Like The Rest™, then go ahead and crank up the provider from 15% to 50%, 70%, or even 100%. I'd hate to be you, and I'm not sure why you're reading this blog, but hey, it's your life. But if your goals and methods are similar to mine, in that you want to get laid as fast as humanly possible via going out on dates, and the women you're dealing with are anywhere from age 18 to 32, and absolute monogamy is not your goal, then 85% player, 15% provider is the best way to go.
The exception to the rule (and you knew this was coming) is women over age 33. 85/15 won't help you at all with women this age. Trouble is, 100% player will also not work (unless you are under the age of about 27 and are extremely good looking or ripped and can do the whole "good-looking-poor-guy" thing well). 100% player will repel over-33 women very fast, and often offend them to boot. 100% provider might work on these women, assuming you don't mind five, six, or seven expensive dinner dates plus monogamy commitments before you ever get to sex. To be clear, 85/15 will work best for men of any age focusing on women under the age of 33.
The 85/15 rule means you are a player and clearly demonstrating it. However, you also have little hints of provider that sneak out and show themselves to her. Example Of A 100% Player
Here’s how it might look with the 100% player guy:
He’s good-looking but not dressed in anything expensive. He has a crazy, cool hairdo and sexual eyes. He talks about fun, surface-level topics. He’s got a very sexual frame and kinos a lot, with lots of confidence. He does not talk about money, career, or job, and if she brings up those topics he blows them off to get back to the fun topics (like sex or snowboarding or whatever). He talks about how much he loves to drink, party, and have fun. He’s cocky, smart-alecky, and funny. He doesn’t do much to demonstrate his intelligence, just his sexual frame.
Nothing wrong with 100% player at all. However, unless this guy is at a club late in the evening, this guy may sometimes get resistance from women because they're thinking he's "a player!". Thanks to Societal Programming, ASD, and slut shaming, women don't want to get "played", even if they are very attracted to the guy.
Example Of An 85/15 Guy
Here's how it might look with an 85/15 man:
He’s also good looking, but unlike 100% player guy, he's wearing some clothing that could be interpreted as costing a little more money. His clothing also has a cleaner, less rumpled look. (Whereas the 100% player may look like he just rolled out of bed.)
He’s got a very sexual frame and kinos a lot, with lots of confidence, just like the 100% player. He does talk about jobs and work, just a little, and when she asks about what he does for a living he DHVs just a little and just for a few seconds, before resuming a sexual frame and/or redirecting the conversation back to her. He doesn’t get into too many specifics, but his aura is that of a man who does have some level of responsibility in life.
If he has kids, he mentions them and how much he likes spending time with them. But only for about 20 seconds…then he gets back to talking about the good stuff (like sex). (If the 100% player guy has kids, would never, ever bring it up, and he always hopes women never ask him about it.) He’s cocky and funny, but not quite as smart-alecky as the 100% player. In addition to his strong sexual frame, he also demonstrates a little of his intelligence, knowledge, and experience. But just a little.
Let me reiterate something. If the 85/15 guy talks too much about his job, experience, responsibility, hopes/dreams, kids, or similar areas, he's now seriously moving into provider territory, which is bad. His 15% provider is now more like 40% or more. Thus his odds for a fast lay go down, not up. It's very important you hear me on this. I am not recommending you act like a provider. Rather, I am recommending you introduce just a tiny bit of it into your game if you are experiencing the two problems I listed at the beginning of this article.
Do you see the subtle but clear difference between 100% player guy and 85/15 guy? From the woman’s standpoint, that first guy is undoubtedly attractive, but he’s going to be either a fantastic lay or a guy she should avoid because he’s “dangerous” (her ASD is going to fire up). But in any case, he’s (likely) not going to be a guy she’s going to “date”, even if she ends up having sex with him.
To her, the second guy is in more of a gray area. He would probably be a good lay too. He’s attractive and compelling just like the first guy. But in her mind, there may be something “more” to this guy than just a wild night, and her ASD lessens, at least a little. (Which is probably all you need.)
So if you're running into the two problems above, tweak your frame and your game just a little bit to "reveal" a little provider and then see what happens. I think you'll be pleased.
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.
Here's how it might look with an 85/15 man:
He’s also good looking, but unlike 100% player guy, he's wearing some clothing that could be interpreted as costing a little more money. His clothing also has a cleaner, less rumpled look. (Whereas the 100% player may look like he just rolled out of bed.)
He’s got a very sexual frame and kinos a lot, with lots of confidence, just like the 100% player. He does talk about jobs and work, just a little, and when she asks about what he does for a living he DHVs just a little and just for a few seconds, before resuming a sexual frame and/or redirecting the conversation back to her. He doesn’t get into too many specifics, but his aura is that of a man who does have some level of responsibility in life.
If he has kids, he mentions them and how much he likes spending time with them. But only for about 20 seconds…then he gets back to talking about the good stuff (like sex). (If the 100% player guy has kids, would never, ever bring it up, and he always hopes women never ask him about it.) He’s cocky and funny, but not quite as smart-alecky as the 100% player. In addition to his strong sexual frame, he also demonstrates a little of his intelligence, knowledge, and experience. But just a little.
Let me reiterate something. If the 85/15 guy talks too much about his job, experience, responsibility, hopes/dreams, kids, or similar areas, he's now seriously moving into provider territory, which is bad. His 15% provider is now more like 40% or more. Thus his odds for a fast lay go down, not up. It's very important you hear me on this. I am not recommending you act like a provider. Rather, I am recommending you introduce just a tiny bit of it into your game if you are experiencing the two problems I listed at the beginning of this article.
Do you see the subtle but clear difference between 100% player guy and 85/15 guy? From the woman’s standpoint, that first guy is undoubtedly attractive, but he’s going to be either a fantastic lay or a guy she should avoid because he’s “dangerous” (her ASD is going to fire up). But in any case, he’s (likely) not going to be a guy she’s going to “date”, even if she ends up having sex with him.
To her, the second guy is in more of a gray area. He would probably be a good lay too. He’s attractive and compelling just like the first guy. But in her mind, there may be something “more” to this guy than just a wild night, and her ASD lessens, at least a little. (Which is probably all you need.)
So if you're running into the two problems above, tweak your frame and your game just a little bit to "reveal" a little provider and then see what happens. I think you'll be pleased.
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.