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Per the glossary, the definition of "provider hunting" is: A phase a woman goes through, usually when she’s over the age of 27 (but can happen at all ages) where she seeks to settle down with a beta, now preferring the perceived stability and compliance of a beta over the fun, great sex, passion, and excitement of an Alpha. Because of the excessive amount of needy AFCs in society, provider-hunting women don’t stay single long, and find husbands or live-in boyfriends very quickly.
-By Caleb Jones
Provider hunters often demand full-on "dates", where dinner and drinks and other events are involved, and where you pay the entire bill. Because she's looking for a complaint man, your willingness to pay for her demonstrates such compliance, and thus you "qualify" to be her provider. Unwillingness to do these things disqualify you (and pisses her off too).
Today's article is how to identify a provider hunter as quickly as possible so you can next her fast and move on to less demanding women. Here are the traits of a provider hunter, listed in no particular order.
1. She's likely over the age of 27, but not always.
Per the definition, most provider hunters are typically over the age of about 27 or so. Women under the age of 27 are usually spending their time having fun or being too independent to bother with a provider, but that's a wide generalization. There are indeed many women under 27 who can also be provider hunters. I've even seen some as young as 19.
This means that if you keep your target range below age 27 or so, just doing that will weed out most provider hunters out there. Just be aware it will not weed them all out. There will still be plenty of under-27 provider hunters you'll be running into.
2. She's likely been on LOTS of first dates recently.
Any time you run into a woman who has been on 20, 30, or more first dates recently, that's one of the biggest provider hunter red flags there is. You're likely dealing with a very picky provider hunter who hasn't found her perfect slave yet. Non-provider-hunting women rarely need to go on this many first dates. Within three to seven first dates, they've found a guy they enjoy having sex with. However, Ms. Picky Provider Hunter hasn't yet found a provider that matches up to her impossibly high standards.
I can tell you as a man who has been on more first dates than the typical ten men will go on in their entire lives, if during the conversation you find she's been on bazillions of first dates lately, you're likely dealing with a hardcore provider hunter.
3. She's usually a Dominant, not an Independent or Submissive. Using my definitions for the three types of women here, most provider hunters are Dominants.
Independents are never provider hunters and are disgusted at the thought of a man who "provides" for her. Most Independents don't even want to get married, much less have a provider. Submissives do desire providers at times but they usually won't actively go out and seek them and screen for them aggressively the way Dominants do.
No, if she's a provider hunter, she's likely a Dominant. Contrary to popular belief, provider hunters are not looking for a dashing, strong man to sweep her off her feet. Rather, they are looking for a Poindexter who will be home by 6pm every night and take out the trash when ordered.
4. She asks you lots of questions.
Women enjoy talking, mostly about themselves. It's normal and how they're wired. Any time a woman on a first date is laughing and talking a lot about herself (which is usually the case, because I make sure she does this), I know I'll be having sex with her very soon. That's why on a first date it's very important to keep a woman talking, and keep asking her questions about her life.
But if you're sitting across from a woman who is asking you a lot of questions, this is often a tell-tale sign of a provider hunter. What she's really doing is running through her mental checklist of provider requirements and determining how you measure up. She's also seeing how you compare or contrast to other men she's been in relationships with who had qualities she hated. This is never a good sign; not if you want to get to sex quickly.
A woman who talks about sex is great. A woman who goes along with your strong sexual frame is also great. A woman who clearly gets turned on as she talks about sex, or as you talk about sex, is also great.
But I can tell you from vast experience that a woman who brags about how much she likes sex is often a huge provider hunter red flag. If she starts boasting about how much she loves sex and how she needs it all the time and how her last boyfriend said she was the best he ever had, all while not becoming aroused and stating it all matter-of-factly like a man bragging about his income, then you're likely dealing with a woman who is going to stop you when you try to take her shirt off later and give you a lecture about how she's not a slut and how you need to learn to "romance a girl".
It's key you understand the difference between a woman bragging about how much she likes/needs sex (bad), and a woman talking about sex with you while getting excited or happy (good). Don't get confused; there's a very big difference.
When a provider hunter is bragging about sex, that means she's already selected you as a viable candidate to help her pay her bills. You will also notice she'll stop asking you questions once she's bragging about her sexual prowess. That's because you've "passed". Now she's trying to reel you in with all kinds of sexual enticements. She'll keep dangling that sexual carrot in front of you as you keep buying her dinners. Finally, if she hasn't gotten bored with you by then (which is likely), she'll have sex with you, but only after you've made some serious commitments to her.
6. She's short-tempered.
A short temper during the dating process is a very clear sign of a provider hunter. Why?
Because provider hunters hate dating. They hate going on dating sites, they hate going out on dates, they hate sexual interplay with a man who is not her boyfriend, they hate it all. Dating is a huge hassle to these women. She doesn't want to date, she wants to be married, or at least have a super-serious boyfriend. Dating "sucks". And dammit, men need to "get it together".
As a result, if anything doesn't go her way during the dating process, she'll be snippy at best, outright bitchy at worst. Remember, she's already pissed off that she has to "date". (You can even see this anger in their online dating profiles.) So if you do anything "wrong" in her eyes, or don't measure up to her checklist, you're going to get some bile.
7. If she has kids, her kids are her ENTIRE LIFE.
Single mothers are great. I've been in many happy relationships with many of them, still to this day. However sometimes you'll meet single mothers whose entire lives revolve around their children. All their Facebook pics are of their children. All they talk about are their children. 100% of their time not spent at work is spent with their children, either at home or at sporting events (which they are often obsessed with to the point of mania).
I'm not talking about women whose children are important to them. That's normal. I'm talking about women whose children are all they have, all they think about, their whole life. These are often provider hunters. They desperately need a new father or father-figure for their children, as well as another paycheck to help support them.
8. She's JUST gotten divorced.
A lot of guys follow the fantasy that recently-divorced women are easy. After a long boring marriage and stressful divorce, she wants to go play the field now. I used to think this myself, but experience has shown this is usually not the case. If she's recently divorced and very young, as in under the age of 23, then yeah, she might be looking to score.
But if she's just recently divorced and well over the age of 23, the odds are very strong that she's looking to get back into a marriage as fast as possible so she can feel "normal" again. Very-recently-divorced women, especially those with kids, are some of the strongest provider hunters I've run into. I now consider very-recently-divorced women as a provider hunter red flag.
Side note: Match.com is loaded with these women. It's almost as if Match.com has become the go-to place for people the instant they get a divorce. Full disclosure: Match.com was the first place I went to when I got divorced so many years ago, so this is not just a female phenomenon. (However I wasn't a provider hunter when I did it. Yes, men can be provider hunters too, particularity those under age 23 or over age 40.)
One slight twist to all this. I'm talking about women who just got divorced, not separated. Recently separated women who are currently going through a divorce can actually be easy to lay quickly. She's not quite in provider hunting mode yet, because her divorce is not final (thus a new marriage is impossible). So for a while, she may be up for some fun. But as soon as the legal divorce is finalized, watch out. She's going to want you as husband number two ASAP. There are probably some other traits of provider hunters I'm forgetting, but those are the biggies. If you have any to add, please comment and do so.
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maldek 2013-11-17 06:40:10
Let us take a look at Poindexter. He is not good looking. He is not brave. He has no backbone. In his youth he was a nerdish, cowardly "good-guy" who invested his prime years into world of warcraft, magic the gathering and fantasy books. All because reality was not good to him. He never was in a real fist fight his entire life. He likes to vote. He followes the law without question, payes taxes as goverment orders and does what he is told. Or in short: He volunteered into slavery Is it a surprise that the woman in the story also treats him like the slave he decided to be?
Sparks 2013-11-17 07:36:53
I got involved with one of these in 2012. She was 29, by far the oldest women I've ever been with but still pretty hot. I first met her when she was 22 but of course she wasn't interested then. By 29 she was in full provider hunting mode. After going out for several weeks she announced that she wanted to be married and/or pregnant by Christmas 2014. I ran away very fast. Strangely though she was one of the few first date lays I've ever had, even though she said 'nothing was gonna happen' the first night lol.
Blackdragon 2013-11-17 09:55:13
Is it a surprise that the woman in the story also treats him like the slave he decided to be?Not at all. This is why I tend to be much harder on men than women. It starts with men.
After going out for several weeks she announced that she wanted to be married and/or pregnant by Christmas 2014.As an experiment, you should check back in with her after Christmas next year and see if either one of those things happened. If they have, look at some pics of the lucky new guy and see if he's an Alpha or a beta. But hey, at least she had sex with you quickly and waited a few weeks before announcing her intentions. She wasn't that hardcore a PH.
JQ Public 2013-11-17 12:05:21
Not all PH's are really really hot. Some are pretty but not super hot. When these less than hot ones start hunting, it can be a lot of fun to mess with their sense of entitlement. And really, I hold no grudge against the PH's. They should do whatever it is they feel they need to do. But I don't have to be the one that gets sucked into their little freaky fantasy.
Jetsetjim 2013-11-17 17:33:49
OMG. Great post about a not-very-much-discussed, but HUGE segment of the female population. I think though, that it's important to differentiate them from Gold Diggers. Gold Diggers just want to milk the richest cow they can. Provider hunters are looking for 1)Compliance 2)Stability and 3)Disposable income. The guy doesn't have to be rich. Just have a good, stable job and be the type who, if she says that she should "handle their finances" (i.e. "Give me all your paycheck") will say, "Gee, honey, thats great! Thanks for taking that off my hands!" My wife was definitely a provider hunter. I was pretty much the perfect beta provider. The key thing I learned from that was this: Women who have beta husbands are convinced that their husband will never leave them, and if he does, will live a life of loneliness. My wife flat out told me that. After 4 years of separation, me banging other chicks who were young and hot, finding mASF and choking my inner beta child to death, she now has NO illusions that she can't be replaced in a heartbeat. Thats another sign a woman is a provider hunter- she isn't worried about her husband "cheating" on her, because she knows he's too beta and she owns his balls. My wife isn't (very) sexually jealous since we do the swinger thing, but the thought of me spending money on another woman fries her brain. A real provider hunter.
Blackdragon 2013-11-17 17:59:09
My wife isn’t (very) sexually jealous since we do the swinger thing, but the thought of me spending money on another woman fries her brain.That made me laugh. 🙂 And you're right. Provider hunters are a completely different animal than gold diggers. (Sadly provider hunters are far more common.)
lifeofalovergirl 2013-11-17 19:47:21
I think MOST women go through this stage at some point in their lives. Sure there are a few women who truly want to be "independent" and NEVER have kids, but for the rest of us that biological desire is overpowering. This is when women start saying they want to find a "good man" or a "nice guy" and that they are "tired of players". I would listen for key phrases like that. I disagree slightly about looking at her Facebook page for signs of always talking about her kids. Hell, look at mine. 95% of the time I am mentioning them, but I am definitely not in provider hunting mode. Sure, now and again I think it would be nice to have someone to help with the kids and bills but I know it's really not realistic. Sex is more recreation for me right now. The reason that's all I talk about on Facebook is because it's "safe" socially. I can't really go on about my sex life or the drama in my life to everyone in my social circle without risking my reputation. So be very careful about using Facebook as a gauge. That's where women tend to put their best face forward, especially older and more socially conscious ones.
Tim 2013-11-18 10:31:52
@ lifeofalovergirl I don't think there is a "biological desire" to have children. There's a biological desire to have sex (out of which results the offspring) but not really children. I mean look at animals: they aren't trying to procreate, they're just having sex. For humans, there's societal programming that rewards those who have children to do so, thus the desire is fueled by that.
lifeofalovergirl 2013-11-18 10:46:42
TIk, I completely and totally disagree with you. I cant even tell you how strong the desire to have a baby was for me in my early 20's. Just watch any teenage girls around babies. Its very hard for them not to want one of their own! Heck, I even know lots of moms with several children who still strongly crave a baby once their youngest gets to toddling and being more independent. The women who DON'T want to have a baby are rationally going against what nature wants them to do. It isn't just have sex, its OMG I want a baby of my very own! After my own kids get somewhat self sufficient, babies start looking sooo cute and tempting. I logically know that isn't what is best for me right now but it's definitely an inborn desire more than societal. It crosses all culture lines. Women, anywhere you go, love babies!
lifeofalovergirl 2013-11-18 10:48:03
Tim, no idea how your name got switched to tlk on my phone, but that was directed at you. 😉
Blackdragon 2013-11-18 11:04:27
LG is right. There is indeed a biological desire in women to have babies; a very strong one. A woman who has sex 5 times a day every day will still strongly desire a baby even if all her sexual needs are being met. Where LG is wrong is that this desire does not automatically equal provider hunter status. There are many women out there who strongly want to have children, and do have children, without looking for or demanding that a man help them do so. And I'm not talking about single mothers; there are women who are married or have serious boyfriends who have this view.
Alejandro 2013-11-18 12:02:08
Hypotetically, is there any way you could run provider/rich guy game AND still get laid relatively fast? I know that there has to be a way. Maybe focusing on poor chicks desperate to find a high income guy and subcommunicating that you will just find another girl if you don't get sex soon? I know of some old guys here in Germany who always talk about how easy it is to go to latinamerica or southasia, get a young local girlfriend, and spend a couple of months there chilling and having sex with her. I also knew a guy who would talk online with some girls from southamerica, then go there for about a month or so and have sex with most of them. From what he told me, it seems like he made it look like he was the typicall western guy looking for a foreign wife. One could argue about how moral such a strategy is, but what is clear is that they were running provider game yet they were not waiting months to get to sex. I understand the dynamics of being a western guy getting laid in a third world country makes the whole thing a bit different. Hypiteticall, asumming you had a good income, and were willing to spend some of it on women AND you don't mind serial monogamy, what would be the fastest way to go about getting women that way?
Jack 2013-11-18 13:35:46
Alejandro, Good question. I have been experimenting with a three or four date strategy for very good looking 33+ year old women, many of whom are in PH mode. I think the key is to have many short dates in as quick a time frame as possible. I recently had sex with a really sexy 37 year old who was definitely in PH mode big-time. The first date was the one hour drinks date. The second date was a two-hour art gallery date three dates later. Third date was another one-hour quick date on a Saturday afternoon (we met briefly to buy a digital camera). Fourth date (and the sex date) was the next day (Sunday) where I cooked lunch and then made the moves. The whole thing took 10 days from number close to sex close. But she had told me that she didn't kiss until the 3rd or 4th date and didn't have sex until the 5th or 6th date. Well, I used a time compression technique that I got off one of the PUA forums. Seemed to work well. Now she is pushing hard for commitment. But that's another story. Now most men here won't waste time on a woman who is 37, but for me I tend to like women 33+.
Tim 2013-11-18 15:32:00
Lovergirl and Blackdragon: I appreciate your comments, but you didn't really counter my argument, which is that there is a psychological desire to have children, but the pure biology is just a sex drive. It's the societal notions, similar to Disney, that create the psychologic urge you experience, Lovergirl. Thus, in the example you used Blackdragon, sure, the woman wants a kid even though she's sexually fulfilled, but that's not due to the biology, it's from societal pressure/programming. Wanting children is not driven by the base biology, just as Disney isn't driven by the base biology. I'm interested in continuing this discussion.
Jack 2013-11-18 15:54:43
Some edits: Second date was three "days" later (not dates). And the digital camera was for me. I started a photography hobby a couple years ago and that was a big topic of discussion between us.
Blackdragon 2013-11-18 15:56:22
is there any way you could run provider/rich guy game AND still get laid relatively fast?It is a good question. But the two of you have already answered it: 1. It's going to be next to impossible to do in a first-world, English speaking country. 2. You're going to have to put up with multiple dates that cost you money before you ever get to sex. 3. You're going to have to tolerate very hard pushes for commitment and betaziation if you do ever get to sex with her. 4. You're going to have expect a very short relationship, because if you don't "commit" she's going to leave you (or LSNFTE you) very quickly. (This has happened to me more than once with PHs I managed to lay.)
Blackdragon 2013-11-18 16:03:43
Thus, in the example you used Blackdragon, sure, the woman wants a kid even though she’s sexually fulfilled, but that’s not due to the biology, it’s from societal pressure/programming.No it's not. Sure, there is some SP/Disney involved, that's absolutely true. But if that woman was a caveman living 50,000 years ago with no "culture", or a rabid, man-hating, militant feminist who was completely counter-culture, in both cases that woman would still want to have a baby...because of her biology. I'll even double down and say that the biological urge for women to have babies is the strongest biological human urge there is outside of the need for food/water/oxygen. More evidence of this: I've talked before about how women who have never, ever, ever wanted a kid suddenly wake up one day and want a baby as soon as they turn 28. That's the biological clock (emphasis on the word biological), not societal programming.
Tim 2013-11-18 16:18:56
Assuming there was indeed zero culture, the cavewoman would want to have sex and the child would come as a result--there is no hardwired desire to procreate. The counter-culture example is just the intense programming that engulfed even her brain. Here is an article arguing that the notion of women wanting children due to biology is false. It's pretty clear to me that it's a myth, just like the many other societally-programmed myths that engulf us: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-carroll/childfree_b_1752906.html I'll be interested to hear your objections.
Blackdragon 2013-11-18 16:50:57
That gets into a very big, complicated conversation that is way off-topic here, especially considering there are entire paragraphs in both those articles that make absolutely no sense and don't point at any actual science. Maybe I can revisit this topic at another time.
Zee 2013-11-18 17:09:35
So how would you differentiate between detecting a provider and a gold-digger? I'm curious as to the distinctions
Tim 2013-11-19 08:32:07
I'd be interested in a post sometime about the topic, BD, because I think it's very important to your blog, considering you focus on dispelling myths society tells us.
lifeofalovergirl 2013-11-19 09:52:30
Tim, "baby fever" is very real and very biological. I've gotten it when psychologically I didn't feel "ready" to have another child, and it was so strong that I did end up getting pregnant whenever I got in that mode. I've got 5 children and have been pregnant 6 times (possibly one other). Each of those times was preceded by a major craving for a BABY. Society actually tells us that we shouldn't want more than 2 or 3 kids tops but I know a boatload of women that have big families and still really want more kids, despite all the pressure on them to stop. Also, virtually every woman i know who has gotten "fixed" or whose husband has had a vasectomy has gone through a period of mourning over the loss of the ability to have another baby, even if it was something they really wanted to do. I dont believe it's just a desire for sex at all. If it was, once birth control was introduced people wouldn't have kept on reproducing at the rates they have.
Blackdragon 2013-11-19 09:57:37
So how would you differentiate between detecting a provider and a gold-digger? I’m curious as to the distinctions.A gold digger can be any age, any personality, and tend to be extremely pretty (9s and 10s, sometimes 8s). Their goal is to simply get lots of free stuff from as wealthy a man they can attract. They may or may not have any provider desires whatsoever. They don't need to marry anyone or move in with anyone. (In many cases they will actually be against doing this.) They just want lots of high-quality free stuff, trading sex or the promise of sex to do so. A provider hunter is typically over age 27, have a more dominant personality, and can be of any attractiveness (1s to 10s). A PH's goal is to get married or move in with a guy as fast as possible so she can get her bills paid, even if he's not wealthy. So long as he is responsible, compliant, and appears to have a steady job, his income doesn't matter very much. PHs look for responsible, compliant beta males. Gold diggers look for wealthier men. Big difference.
I’d be interested in a post sometime about the topic, BD, because I think it’s very important to your blog, considering you focus on dispelling myths society tells us.I probably won't. Even if it's a myth, it's an irrelevant one. Women want babies very, very badly whether we like it or not. Why they want them is interesting, but less important.
Ron Ritzman 2014-07-20 20:36:53
Interesting post but there also seems to be another species of "provider hunter" that I call the "submissive provider hunter" (or perhaps the "clueless provider hunter"). I was involved with one in the late 80s. This one will give you sex rather quickly and makes it as easy as possible for you to slide into her life in that role by minimizing drama and putting any boundaries she may have into cold storage. They almost literally throw themselves at you. These women tend to get pump-n-dumped frequently but this tactic can work with white knight/captain save-a-hoe types
Jean 2014-10-24 13:58:29
I was on the train today, and a beta was sitting next to me. A girl of his prom spotted him and began screening him. She interrupted him working. He said to her it was the only time he has to work during the week (what a loser) but then proceeded to interrupt it to talk to that girl for the whole time of the travel. The discussion revolved solely around work. She was laughing, giving him IOIs while he was having platonic and boring conversation. She got in a very subtle way the information about his future job. She got the confirmation that he is interested in her. I checked her out : old, a little fat. Plus she said she failed college. I cringed during the whole time : one FUCKING hour. This was nearly unbearable. The guy kept shooting him in the foot by saying that he is alone, that he has nothing to do and he is bored to hell on the evenings. Damn, he was even LOOKING like Mr Nice Guy. I couldn't help but imagine how each one of them would come back home. - Mr nice guy thrilled because he had an interaction with a girl - Mrs former slut, turned down by this beta but ranking him from 0 to 100. She will further decide is he is the best catch she can get. That's when I realised I will never be able to go back to blue pill beta buck role. I mean come on. All the conversation was about the job this guy will have and the salary he will get (aside from the bullshit fluff talk of the girl and her IOIs). Even a moron would have understood that. But him? No. When he left the train, he said "well Stephanie, it was great talking to you!". I was this guy. I fucking was this guy delivering this exact same line, thinking it was all about making women feel good, validated and beautiful. Then he proceeded to get off the train and to walk fast, pretending he is busy. While he spent 1h and a half talking to an uninteresting woman, interrupting his work for her and even changing seats. FUCK.THAT.SHIT.
Why Do Men Lie To Women? - The Blackdragon Blog 2015-08-07 05:01:06
[…] said it was hard to tell with such limited information, but either he was a male provider hunter looking for a Perfect Virgin Wife™ and she violated his right-wing purity fantasies, or more […]
Dave, From Oz 2017-06-08 19:54:39
"I appreciate your comments, but you didn’t really counter my argument, which is that there is a psychological desire to have children, but the pure biology is just a sex drive." Well, Tim, at this point we need to ask what the difference is between a biological drive and a psychological one, and simply saying "because one is psychological and the other isn't" won't do. Let's put it this way: according to your system, is desire biological or is it psychological? If it's biological, how come it occupies ones thoughts? How come it inspires poetry? If it's psychological, what are we to make of all those scientific studies demonstrating that scent is important? By answer is not "desire is both psychological and biological", but "the idea that biology and psychology are separate things is false". We are physical beings, we are not made of two completely different bits - a body and a mind. Our selves, our minds, our souls, are rooted in the physical. I am not a slave to my hormones and my neural firings. These things are me.
The Story of My History with Women – Part 6 – My First Nonmono Relationship - The Blackdragon Blog 2017-09-02 15:31:39
[…] We last left off in winter of 2007. Still inexperienced, I was in the middle of my first, ongoing, nonmonogamous relationship of any real length with Jenae, a 40 year-old, sexually inexperienced Christian provider hunter. […]
First Dates - Permit HER Do the Talking - 2019-09-17 07:27:05
[…] significant side-note about this: Girls that are supplier seekers , Dominants, or who are over age 33 will frequently place you in”job interview mode” […]
Michael 2019-12-23 08:17:28
I'm going to start banging gay dudes in the ass while I wait for the sexbot revolution. I hate women.