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How My Open Relationships Usually Look
This is a post many of you have been asking me to write for a long time. Often I get questions about how my relationships typically work and look. My day in the life posts tend to be popular, so it's time to get back into my personal life. I'm going to be using a lot of terms in this post, so if you don't know what things like "LSNFTE" or "MLTR" mean, go to the glossary right now and keep it handy, or else you will be very confused.
-By Caleb Jones
How long on average do you “keep” your women?
How long is it usually before a woman asks for commitment?
How long does it take for a LSNFTE to come back?
How long do you typically know these women, even if you include nexts and LSFNTEs?
To answer these questions, for the first time I'm going to describe the "average, typical" MLTR and FB relationship I have. This will be fun.
Before I get into that, let's cover a few bases first.
My women are either FBs or MLTRs, so that's what I will be discussing today. Make very sure you understand the difference before reading this post, or again you'll be very confused. The third and final level of open relationship is OLTR (which is the open relationship version of "serious girlfriend" or "wife"), but I have not actually done that yet (though over the years one or two women have gotten very close, almost like a "de facto" OLTR).
I would love to have an OLTR someday, but my standards are a little high, and I'm having a good time with the status quo as you might imagine, so I'm in no rush.
I am not going to give you detailed relationship techniques here. I'm just going to describe how my relationships typically look. If you want step-by-step techniques on how I (and many other men) actually do this stuff, you need to go here and order my ebook on open relationships.
That book will walk you though the entire process step-by-step, including the four phases of any nonmonogamous relationship that you must take a woman through in order for her to be "okay" with everything. That ebook is the most comprehensive one I've ever written, and there is a 100% lifetime guarantee on everything I sell, so there's no reason not to get it if you're interested in building relationships like this. Okay, here we go!
The Type of Woman
Most women I meet through online dating, though not all. Most women I date are between the ages of 18 to 27, though I do love older women and happily date women in their 30s and 40s just as long as I meet them through my social circle instead of cold approach. (My favorite woman right now is 39 years old.) This is because with open relationships older women are wonderful, but during the pre-sex "dating" phase older women are complete nightmares. I've discussed this before.
Beyond some general physical attributes, I really don't have a "type". I have dated women in long-term (i.e. many years) open relationships who were young dumb bimbos, but also women over 30 and over 40, senior vice presidents, attorneys, teachers, accountants, and other successful types. Dumb, smart, tall, short, feminine, tomboy, old, young, you name the type of woman, and I've probably had that type in an open relationship, either as an FB, MLTR, or very serious MLTR.
The Relationship Begins
As most of you already know, I usually have a 60 minute first date where I spend $0 - $14, then have a second "date" where the woman comes to my house and we have sex. I don't consider her in an actual "relationship" with me until we've had sex twice on two separate occasions. The second lay is where you move out of "game" or "pickup" or "dating" and into "relationship game" or "relationship management".
Dating/seduction/game and relationship management are two completely different skill sets. Sadly, most men in the seduction community / manosphere who are very good at one tend to be very bad at the other. Both skills are critical to a long-term happy life for a man, not just one or the other. But I digress.
My goal is to have a long-lasting (open) relationship with every woman I have sex with. I do not do one night stands and never have. I don't see the point. Every woman I have sex with I want to be having sex with for the rest of my life. That is a literal statement, not a joke, and not an exaggeration. From the very first minute of the first date with her, unless she's a complete bitch, I view her as a woman I will be having sex with, off and on, for the rest of my life.
I've been doing this for almost seven years now, and so far this has been proven to be true. There are women whom I started dating when they were 18 or 19 years old who are now in their mid-twenties and still in my life, just like there are women I started dating when they were in their mid-thirties who are now in their early-forties (like me) who are still in my life. I love women.
When I start a relationship with a new woman, I already know this. So while I don't behave like a beta male Poindexter, I also don't behave like Mr. One Night Stand Player Guy. That's not who I am. I instead behave like Mr. Steady Alpha Male. My open relationship EFA begins on the very first minute of the first date. My frame is:
"I will love you forever and be in your life forever. But you will never control me."
FB and MLTR relationships are different from each other, so I'll describe each one separately.
My Typical FB Relationship -
Per my usual rules, I will not see an FB more than once a week. FBs I tend to see less frequently than MTLRs, often by their choice, so seeing an FB as often as once a week is unusual. Usually it ends up being 2-3 times a month or less. FBs never spend the night at my house and I virtually never take an FB out on a "date", and even if we do, she's paying for her half. "Dating" is for MLTRs, not FBs!
Despite this, I treat FBs very nicely. I do them favors (when convenient) and give them advice when they ask. With my older (over 30 or 40) FBs, we are close friends. With my younger women FBs, I am a resource and source of stability and friendly support (but not financial support; that's beta males' job).
I am extremely discreet and don't announce them in my life at all, unless they ask me to do so. When a woman is cheating on a boyfriend (which is very common) or a husband (less common but it has happened), I am very discreet, unlike most other men, and this is appreciated.
Women are smart. They get the "point" that they're an FB very quickly. There's never a conversation about this and it's never actually stated. Of course, I never give FBs drama, never tell them what to do, never argue with them, and it's always fun times when we're together. For these reasons, most FBs stick around for quite a long time. More on this in a minute.
LSNFTEs from FBs are more common than with MLTRs, since every woman eventually gets a boyfriend. Luckily for me, these boyfriends (or husbands if they marry) are either boring beta males or demanding, high-drama Needy Alpha 1.0s. So the woman eventually dumps these guys and resumes with me. I've had some FBs "come back" to me like this as many as six or seven times(!).
The great thing about FBs is that I can be very explicit about talking about other women in my life, and they never get jealous. This is nice. They also never demand "commitment", exclusivity, or monogamy. They know they're FBs and they know demanding these things would be pointless. A small handful of my long-term FBs have become some of my closest, trusted friends. Even if they end up moving to other cities we still often stay in touch (and have sex if one of us is visiting the city of the other). So although FBs aren't nearly as romantic and emotional and "deep" as MLTRs, they are extremely enjoyable and very rewarding.
My Typical MLTR Relationship -
MLTR relationships are where I do actually care in a very strong romantic way for the woman. While she's not at the OLTR level yet, we are actually "dating" and there is great affection and possibly even love between us. As a result, MLTRs are much more deep than FBs but also more complicated.
I usually have a good feel for whether or not a woman is going to be an MLTR by the third date or so (which in my world is after we've had sex at least once). Sometimes I'm wrong, and in these unusual cases I simply downgrade them to FBs when I realize my error. And in some very odd cases, I will actually upgrade an FB to MLTR level if she really steps up and proves herself to be an amazing woman. These downgrading / upgrading cases are rare but they certainly have happened.
So I leap happily into a new MLTR relationship with her and enjoy the powerful NRE that her and I usually experience for the first several months. Just like with the FBs, I will only see her once a week. Unlike FBs, I will happily let her spend the night with me in my bed, take her out on dates (though not expensive ones), cuddle after sex, and spend a lot of quality time with her. That means she might come over on a Tuesday, spend all day with me, spend the night, spend all day Wednesday with me, and then go back to her place (and then I make sure to not see her again until the following Tuesday...the once a week rule is unbreakable unless she graduates to OLTR).
At about the five-month mark or so (on average), she will finally NEED to have her relationship questions answered. Dodging questions won't work any more. At this point she's either in love with me or very close to it, and she needs answers. She knows damn well I'm fucking other women even though I have not verbalized it, and needs to know where she stands in my future.
That's when we have The Talk. This is where I finally verbalize everything. The Talk is a big subject that I cover in the ebook, but the abbreviated version is me saying, in very nice and caring way:
"I love being with you, and I want to stay with you. I want to be in your life forever. But I will never, ever be sexually monogamous. Ever. Even if we get married or live together down the road, I will still be discreetly getting something on the side. If that's unacceptable to you and you need to leave me because of it, I'll be very sad, but I'll understand and I'll let you go. I hope you stay with me, because I want to stay with you, but you have to make your own decisions."
What usually happens is that she cries for a little bit and says, "I don't know. I'll have to think about it." Then several days later, I see her again, and the relationship resumes. Sometimes they say nothing about the conversation and just resume like nothing ever happened. Other times they will come back with some "rules". Such as, "That's fine as long as you use condoms on other women" or whatever.
Since I already do that, those bases are already covered. I use condoms, have never gotten a woman pregnant on accident in my entire life, get tested for every STD in the universe three times a year, and will often show my MLTRs my clean test results. Open/poly relationships only work if both adults are sexually responsible, and I make sure to do my part. She must also, or else she gets nexted or downgraded to FB.
After The Talk, it's pretty smooth sailing for another 18 months to two years on average. I stay strong with all the usual Blackdragon relationship rules: I only see her once a week, still never tell her what to do, never get jealous if she fucks other guys, avoid big conversations about "the relationship", make her cum every time we have sex (preferably many times), etc, etc.
Occasionally, though rarely, she will throw a little drama at me. I probably get less than 5% of the drama from a woman that monogamous men have, but my women are still females, so a little drama occasionally is unavoidable. No problem. If she gives me any drama that lasts longer than about 20 seconds, she'll get an instant soft next for three to seven days. After one or two of those, she quickly learns that she should not give me drama if she wants my time and attention. (One younger woman I was dating a few years ago told me, "No, I'm not going to yell at you. You'll that 'thing' again where you don't talk to me for a week.") Soft nexts are by far the most effective relationship tool in an Alpha's toolbox.
What is the usual topic of her little drama spurts? In order of commonality, it's usually one of these three things:
1. Random irrational bullshit because she had a bad day.
2. Complaints about how I don't see her often enough. (This mostly comes from the much younger women.)
What about drama about how I "won't commit"? Guess what? Women don't give me drama about that. If they have a problem with that, they just leave and do a LSNFTE. (The only women who actually give me drama about not committing but stay anyway are Russian women...which is one of the reasons I've backed off on these kinds of women despite their beauty.)
Questions and Answers on Time Frames
Here are some additional answers to the questions I commonly get. Do your women have sex with other men while they're dating you?
It's about 50/50. 50% do, 50% do not. However even if she does, it will not be consistent. She will go through "phases" where she'll fuck one other guy (if she's over age 26) or several other guys (if she's 26 or under), but these phases will be temporary. Women are not in constant horny mode like men are. I will always be having sex with other women, but she will only sometimes be having sex with other guys, and that's if she's in that particular 50%.
The other 50% of women don't have sex with other men at all. They either aren't comfortable doing it or they're bisexual and play around with other women instead (which makes for some fun threesomes).
How long does the typical relationship last before they leave you because they want monogamy?
On average, the typical serious MLTR I have lasts about two to three years before the first LSNFTE. Then she'll go away, fart around with some betas and Alpha 1.0s, get bored or angry, and come back to me. The longest consistent MLTR I've had lasted about four and a half years. The longest inconsistent MLTR I've had has lasted over six years.
Not surprisingly, FBs will LSNFTE me much faster than MLTRs. Many last under a year. However! FBs come back to me more times and more often than MLTRs do, and this is a huge benefit. Because of this, I have many FBs who have been in my life five, six, and almost seven years, albeit inconsistently. An FB will LSNFTE you faster but will often return faster and more times. Contrast this to an MLTR, who will generally stay with you much longer, but when she leaves you, will be gone for much longer.
How often do women come back to you after they leave you?
My return rate for women who leave me is 94.4% the last time I calculated it. That means that 94.4% of women who leave me or LSNFTE me because they want a monogamous relationship eventually come back to me and resume the relationship. Sometimes it's because they contact me out of the blue, other times it's because I contact them after many months of radio silence (it's about 50 /50).
Regardless of monogamy's alluring siren's song, after being in a freedom-based, perpetually happy, low-drama relationship with an Alpha 2.0, it's hard for a woman to put up with the boredom of being with a beta male or the restrictions and drama of being with a Needy Alpha 1.0. The proof is in my numbers: 94.4%. And that includes women who move in with other men, women who marry other men (and then get divorced) and women who have babies with other men.
And frankly, that 5.6% of women who have never come back is mostly represented by A) women who move very far away or B) much older women (age 45+) who get married (because as I've explained before, divorce and infidelity rates begin to seriously drop with women as they approach age 50 and lose estrogen).
How long do the LSNFTEs last before the women come back?
I recently calculated that my average LSNFTE is 15 to 19 months depending on how you do the math. My longest LSNFTE (so far) was 3.5 years. My shortest was 2 weeks. Do women LSNFTE you multiple times? I.E. break up with you, come back, then later break up with you again, and come back again?
Yes, that does happen. It's more likely to happen with the younger women, and more likely to happen with FBs (though it has happened with MTLRs too). For example, one of my women is a 20 year-old, and she's an FB but a strong one. She has been in my life exactly a year and has LSNFTEed me and come back three times already, all three times with different boyfriends. (All three cheated on her. You'd think eventually women would get the point about men not being monogamous, but most don't.)
How many times do women come back?
With FBs, multiple times over a long period.
With MLTRs, it's usually one to three times before they finally leave and "never" return, though there's a reason the word "never" is in quotes. It really should be "not yet". I've only been doing this about seven years, and plan to be doing this for the next 30 or 40 years (even after I get an OLTR; that just means the returning side-women will have to be FBs at that point). I expect to re-acquire some of those "nevers" over time. Check back with me in another 20 years and we'll see if some of these "nevers" do indeed come back over. History shows that most of them will. (Remember, women hate monogamy just as much as men do, if not more so, even if their rhetoric says otherwise.)
And that's a great end to this post...a re-iteration of my goal. I want to be having sex with these women, all these women, off-and-on, for the rest of my life. And with many of them, I will.
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Marvin 2018-05-18 04:40:37
Hey blackdragon, I want to know how you handle things like oral sex in open relationships. How do you deal with the fact that you know that a girl of you is having sex with multiple other guys, frequently when you want to go down on her,? I mean, you never know, what happened, right?
Blackdragon 2017-03-07 11:18:47
Right, I worded that badly. I know about the importance of lots of clues. If I might rephrase, I mean that when you DO talk about it, is “I’m not promising monogamy” as specific as you EVER get? Are statements as general as “I’m seeing two other women right now” or “I was on a date tuesday night” completely against the grain of what can work?Yes, those are against the grain. Don't give her those specifics.
Or, is this kind of information inevitably going to be required, eventually?Only perhaps for an OLTR that you're planning on moving in with soon. Otherwise, no.
The reason I ask I guess is that it seems that the longer and more ongoing the relationship gets, the more attached to you a woman becomes, it seems her desire for this information also grows.I don't care what her desire is. I only care about long-term happiness.
Daniel 2017-03-07 00:35:39
Right, I worded that badly. I know about the importance of lots of clues. If I might rephrase, I mean that when you DO talk about it, is "I'm not promising monogamy" as specific as you EVER get? Are statements as general as "I'm seeing two other women right now" or "I was on a date tuesday night" completely against the grain of what can work? Or, is this kind of information inevitably going to be required, eventually? The reason I ask I guess is that it seems that the longer and more ongoing the relationship gets, the more attached to you a woman becomes, it seems her desire for this information also grows. Is this part of the MLTR/OLTR line?
Blackdragon 2017-03-06 13:41:43
How can you make this promise to every MLTR?You only say something if it's the truth. Therefore you would not say such a thing to multiple women. I'd be very careful saying this to any MLTR (OLTR okay), but you can if it's what you really feel. That's my point about The Talk. It must be real, and it must be truthful.
Would you say this to low level MLTRs as well? Girls that you could never see getting to that OLTR level.No.
You say it’s fine to talk details with FB’s and that’s something that’s great about them, but you advise against this with MLTR’s.Correct.
What I don’t know is, do you let these women have any clue as to just exactly how extensive your fooling around really is?Fuck yes. I give them all kind of clues. That essential for my EFA and frame. But I don't literally lay it all out for them with specifics. That's none of their business anyway.
Daniel 2017-03-05 22:45:37
Your recent article about Pink Firefly brought this question to mind, but it seems more appropriate over here. In that article, it's clear she has a very explicit knowledge of how often and how many FB's you have. But that's an OLTR situation. I am not in an OLTR situation, and I am wondering if I am fucking up. You say it's fine to talk details with FB's and that's something that's great about them, but you advise against this with MLTR's. I know that certainly talking things such as what you do together, or what she looks like etc. are out. What I don't know is, do you let these women have any clue as to just exactly how extensive your fooling around really is? Or do you flatly tell them "I am not going to promise monogamy to you, but I promise you I'll be discrete about it if/when I do fool around" something like this? Basically I am wondering if I am supposed to be stating it in a kind of vague way, that leaves her room to at least imagine that perhaps, I'm not doing it VERY often, which presumably would be a lot easier for her to accept than if I told her I already had sex with five other girls this week.
Carlito 2017-03-05 17:06:47
BD, Couple of questions about something you say during The Talk. "“I love being with you, and I want to stay with you. I want to be in your life forever." 1. How can you make this promise to every MLTR? One day, when you make one of these girls your OLTR, you will have to dump the others. I believe I've seen you say that having FB's that were former MLTRs is not ok once you have an OLTR. "But I will never, ever be sexually monogamous. Ever. Even if we get married or live together down the road" 2. Would you say this to low level MLTRs as well? Girls that you could never see getting to that OLTR level. I like everything else about your system, but in this situation I feel like I'd be giving girls unrealistic expectations if I said those things.
The Riv 2016-09-29 17:27:39
Perfect. Yes I should have clarified... During sex. Thanks for the quick reply!
Blackdragon 2016-09-29 11:12:02
What’s your rule on kissing FBs? I know the no cuddling rule and think kissing would fall under the same guideline…There are two very different kinds of kissing. Romantic kissing and kissing as a sex act. Kissing during sex with an FB is fine. There's nothing romantic about that, at least not the way I do it. Kissing romantically, outside of sex, is not a good idea with FBs.
The Riv 2016-09-29 10:12:24
BD - What's your rule on kissing FBs? I know the no cuddling rule and think kissing would fall under the same guideline...
Blackdragon 2016-09-04 13:58:56
Amy - I've just sent your question over to the gals at Girls With Game. They may answer it over there.
Amy 2016-09-03 20:24:03
BD, I've been in a MLTR with a guy for few years and the last couple of months, he seems more needy while at the same time he's giving me every single detail of his break ups with other MLTRs *probably asking for comfort and advice* and he keeps describing in detail his sex life way much more than he used to. Not to mention that these conversations affect his sexual performance with me. Do you have any idea what might be the reason why he is doing all these, since you never mentioned in what level you usually talk to one of your MLTRs about the rest of your relationships? Thank you in advance for your time!
Blackdragon 2016-08-23 12:53:09
I assumed you were “pausing” and swapping in and out constantly of your own volition to get numbers like those you talk about. And I realized there wasn’t anything about doing that in the book, so I guessed maybe you just soft next them out of the blue when you wanted to try a new one out. But I see now you mention you haven’t needed to next a woman in years. Are women moving, or LSNTEing you really that common, or what am I missing here?I don't understand the question, and whatever it is, you're not communicating it well, but I think I've already answered it. Let's drop it now.
Elijah 2016-08-22 22:28:13
I assumed you were "pausing" and swapping in and out constantly of your own volition to get numbers like those you talk about. And I realized there wasn't anything about doing that in the book, so I guessed maybe you just soft next them out of the blue when you wanted to try a new one out. But I see now you mention you haven't needed to next a woman in years. Are women moving, or LSNTEing you really that common, or what am I missing here?
Blackdragon 2016-08-22 20:28:54
So I was asking if you could theorize how to go about doing this in a way that keeps her available when I do want to see her again.She will see you again regardless for the reason for the next, assuming you're following all of my relationship techniques (not just soft nexting, but everything else). Guys like Tubarao next women because of them (the man) all the time. It works fine. I just don't see the point, but that's me.
Elijah 2016-08-22 19:04:03
Sorry for the lack of clarity. You said you would never "pause" (which I suppose is roughly analagous to the non-monogamous equivalent of breaking up?) for reasons of wanting to replace or try something new. So I was asking if you could theorize how to go about doing this in a way that keeps her available when I do want to see her again. Say I have a WD or FB that I see weekly, I meet a new girl I want to get with but I can't possibly see her without putting her in one of my other three girls' time slots. Maybe I want to see each of them every other week now. Maybe I want to see this new girl every week, and only see the old one when I unexpectedly get some extra time. The point is I want to see a current girl less often, but still "keep" her, as you say, you want to be having sex with ALL your women forever. I like that goal : ) The above 3 reasons are all about HER. (either she screwed up and got nexted, or her life pulls her away) In those cases, it's easy to understand how it automatically becomes a "pause". But what if I want the pause to come from ME?
Blackdragon 2016-08-18 23:47:53
I also got the impression you try to have sex with any woman you get out on a date if you canCorrect (on the second date), since I only go after women I consider at least in 8 or higher (to me).
but it sounds like you’re actually choosing the ones you want to have sex with based on the first date instead?I'm not sure what you're asking but I think the answer is no. I only get women on a first date who I'm already very attracted to (8 or higher) and I ignore all the rest. Once on that first date, I try to have sex with all of these women on date number two, after the 1-hour first date.
So, can you theorize how to do it maybe?? I don't need to theorize. My ebooks tell you exactly how to do this with precise step-by-step instructions.
Since I’m still just getting my feet wet with all this, (and I do admittedly live in the wrong place at the moment) I’m up to 3 girls but probably they are in the 7-8 range. 3 girls is also my absolute max time-wise.I tend to agree. Three is a good number. I'm not normally dating more than 3 or 4 at a time.
I’m not at the point where I have a slew of 9’s and 10’s to choose from, so of course as I find them in the future, I’m going to want to downgrade one of the others I’m seeing now from once a week into a “once in a while” instead, and give the 9 or 10 her spot.That's fine. Go ahead. We only have so much time in the week.
Elijah 2016-08-18 23:11:02
Wow, I totally failed to get that impression, I'm a bit shocked actually heh. You refer quite often to dating such a large number of women, I just assumed you do this all the time, but those sound like rare circumstances. I also got the impression you try to have sex with any woman you get out on a date if you can, but it sounds like you're actually choosing the ones you want to have sex with based on the first date instead? So, can you theorize how to do it maybe? Since I'm still just getting my feet wet with all this, (and I do admittedly live in the wrong place at the moment) I'm up to 3 girls but probably they are in the 7-8 range. 3 girls is also my absolute max time-wise.I'm not at the point where I have a slew of 9's and 10's to choose from, so of course as I find them in the future, I'm going to want to downgrade one of the others I'm seeing now from once a week into a "once in a while" instead, and give the 9 or 10 her spot.
Blackdragon 2016-08-18 12:18:35
As I read it, when you decide to switch girls, or drop one you have been seeing regularly, to start looking for new ones, it almost sounds as though you soft-next them. i.e. There is no discussion about it at all, you simply stop contacting them out of the blue. Am I reading this correctly?No. I never next a woman unless she's given me drama. I've never dropped a girl because I was bored or wanted someone new. Once I'm having sex with a woman, even if she's just an FB, I would be more than happy to have sex with her for the rest of my life (provided she doesn't give me drama). The only time my relationships pause is for one of three reasons: 1. She LSNFTEs me. 2. She moves away. 3. She gives me drama and I have to soft next her. That's it. There's never another reason.
Have you written anywhere some series on your real-life soft next examples?Yep, right here. Also read this.
Elijah 2016-08-18 02:30:33
I have your book on open relationships, and I need some clarification. As I read it, when you decide to switch girls, or drop one you have been seeing regularly, to start looking for new ones, it almost sounds as though you soft-next them. i.e. There is no discussion about it at all, you simply stop contacting them out of the blue. Am I reading this correctly? If not, please say a few words on how to correctly put one of your current girls on "pause", as it were, in order to try a new one out or to replace her. p.s. Have you written anywhere some series on your real-life soft next examples? As much as I read and read and read about it, I find it really hard to grasp. I mean there are times when it's very obvious like yelling or screaming, but I get the impression that you personally apply it to subtler circumstances. Concrete examples would be great. I know you say it's different for every guy, his own level he'll accept, but still, I'd like to see a series on your own personal ones.
Blackdragon 2016-01-31 15:32:01
But are you saying this does “stick around”, even if you “correct it” and start seeing her once per week?I've already answered that question. The answer is maybe, depending on other stuff you're doing or not doing in the relationship.
BD since you don’t ever want to be friendzoned do you wish for example “happy birthday” to important ex MLTR/OLTR or you disappear completely?If it's during the 4-6 month silent period right after a LSFNTE, then no, I don't send any texts for any reason, even birthdays. Sending a happy birthday text within that zone will lower the odds of you ever having sex with her again. If it's well outside of that zone, i.e. it's been WAY past 6 months since we've communicated, then I might, depending on the circumstances. Frankly I rarely do even then. I just don't give a shit. I'm too busy fucking other women and working on my Mission.
giulio 2016-01-31 11:00:52
BD since you don't ever want to be friendzoned do you wish for example "happy birthday" to important ex MLTR/OLTR or you disappear completely?
Kella 2016-01-31 10:35:46
Thanks BD for smashing this mandatory information in my head! I will do my best, and just see how seeing her once per week from now on might/will save the situation. While not being afraid of losing her of course. One last question, this "lot of damage" that has already been caused from seeing her almost every day for 3 months -- What kind of damage is that exactly? Higher drama, lower attraction, betaization, is what I've read (from your blog) happen if you see a woman too often -- But are you saying this does "stick around", even if you "correct it" and start seeing her once per week? Or is there any other type of damage in a situation like this? I feel 3 month is not a very long time, compared to the betas that have seen their woman every day for YEARS. I am glad I found this blog now, and not next year lol. Thanks again!
Blackdragon 2016-01-31 10:08:05
When I’ve been away from her for a long time, her attraction increased ten fold.Yep. That's how it works!
But would you still say a lot of damage has already been caused from seeing eachother almost every single day for 3 month?Yes.
Or is it easy to “recover” and just start seeing her once per week NOW? Or will the damage always be there?There's no way for me to answer that unless I had much more detail on the nature of your relationship (and please don't give this to me). Just try it and do you best.
Or does even a minimum chat of “Hey hows it going?” “Just great, thanks *puts in headphones again* ” “damage” much?YES. NO CONTACT means NO CONTACT.
Kella 2016-01-31 03:58:46
Thanks for the reply BD. We trained 6x per week together every morning for like 3 months, then I found your blog and read about the "once per week rule" and it really made sense. When I've been away from her for a long time, her attraction increased ten fold. But would you still say a lot of damage has already been caused from seeing eachother almost every single day for 3 month? Or is it easy to "recover" and just start seeing her once per week NOW? Or will the damage always be there? Yeah, I was thinking I'll switch my workout schedule the days it fits ME. If I have to go when she is there -- I'll use headphones, when she tries to talk with me, I'll just answer very shortly and put in my headphones again "I need to focus on my workout". Will probably be the best solution. Or does even a minimum chat of "Hey hows it going?" "Just great, thanks *puts in headphones again* " "damage" much? Thanks again.
Blackdragon 2016-01-30 12:56:04
That's why you want to avoid dating women inside your social circle; it makes these rules very difficult. Changing your workout schedule just to ignore her is a little beta, but if it's easy to do than go ahead; that's probably the easiest solution. If you want to keep your schedule, that's fine but DON'T TALK TO HER AT ALL while you're at the gym. If she still tries to come up and talk to you every damn time she sees you at the gym, then I have no easy answers for you other than advice for the future: "don't fuck women at your gym in the future unless they're one night stands."
Kella 2016-01-29 22:00:19
Hello BD. A question regarding the "Once per week rule" in MLTR. I go to the same gym as my MLTR (thats where we met), the problem is, we both like training morning workouts. Should I have to change up my schedule because of that and go PM workouts because of avoiding seeing her too much at the gym? Or doesn't it really matter that much if it's just beeing in the same gym, changing a few words and seeing eachother from a small distance (not too intimate)? Thanks BD.
Blackdragon 2016-01-22 15:11:03
have you ever stayed friend with an ex mltr or oltr that is not anymore sexual with you? I don’t mean to “try to get her back” but just because you were interested in keeping her as a friend.Never. I don't do friend zone, ever. Read this and this for why.
is it possible in your opinion?Of course it's possible! Women LOVE friend zone! If you want to be unhappy and sexually fustrated, go for it! If you want to be happy and actually have sex with her again, gently boot her out of your life and wait a few months instead.
giulio 2016-01-22 07:26:38
Hi BD, have you ever stayed friend with an ex mltr or oltr that is not anymore sexual with you? I don't mean to "try to get her back" but just because you were interested in keeping her as a friend. is it possible in your opinion? does it work?
Blackdragon 2016-01-02 18:30:51
When your MLTR asks if you missed her or if you love her, does it mean that you acted too boyfriendish?Likely yes. Or you could just be dealing with a needy chick.
How do you respond?There are lots of ways and lots of styles. My style is sarcasm. Her: Did you miss me? You: <smirk> Oh yeah. I was crying in pain the entire time. Her: Do you love me? You: <smirk> Fuck no. I'm just using you for sex. <kiss her, smack her ass>
Minister 2016-01-02 16:15:47
When your MLTR asks if you missed her or if you love her, does it mean that you acted too boyfriendish? How do you respond?
Blackdragon 2015-12-21 09:35:26
in 20+ years or so a large portion of your rotation is going to be in 45+ last provider stage. Yet your ability to aquire new women under 45 will go down in your 60’s, 70’s & 80’s. Let’s assume 45+ last provider seeker rarely come back and your rotation becomes really hard to uphold (lack of energy, few returns and bad odds for new women) and starts to dry up. What will be your next move?I'm not sure why you assume I will always be dating women over age 45 as I get older. The younger women will remain. Instead of being 20 or 23 they may go up to 25 or 26. I know many men well over the age of 50 who still date women in their 20s with no problems. Regarding a lack of ability to get new women as I get older, it won't be a major problem; read this: https://blackdragonblog.com/2013/09/01/aging-and-the-alpha-male/
JohnJohn 2015-12-19 15:37:35
BD interesting blog with new insights in the "pick-up" sphere. A rarety these days. Your system seems to revolve around a semi perpetual rotation of women with new ones added when neccesary. However in 20+ years or so a large portion of your rotation is going to be in 45+ last provider stage. Yet your ability to aquire new women under 45 will go down in your 60's, 70's & 80's. Let's assume 45+ last provider seeker rarely come back and your rotation becomes really hard to uphold (lack of energy, few returns and bad odds for new women) and starts to dry up. What will be your next move? Finally giving in to monagamy when you start to suspect you can't maintain a rotation anymore? Marry the youngest woman you can get from a poor country? OLTR with added sexworkers? Something else?
Bradley 2015-12-07 01:42:51
No doubt - must "stick to the rules" no matter what. Thanks for the insight and quick response!
Blackdragon 2015-12-06 23:21:54
do you feel it’s OK to bring her on a vacation, an overseas trip, or a company event, like a retreat or office partyThose kinds of things are okay for high-end MLTRs who have been in your life at least six months, and have survived The Talk, and have had zero or near-zero problems with you during that entire time. If any of those three conditions are untrue then you shouldn't do it, and keep it for an OLTR only (who also must adhere to those three conditions).
what do you recommend is the appropriate way to handle a mltr that keeps trying to find “slick” ways to see you more than once a week; like trying to come over for lunch or breakfast after you’ve seen her once already, or popping up unannounced etc. ?Stop deflecting blame. If you're seeing an MLTR more than once a week, it's because you're letting her do it. Stop being a pussy. Be a man, take charge, and enforce the rules. If she wants to come over for lunch, tell her NO. Tell her your busy or use any other excuse you like but the answer is NO, and follow up with "I can't wait to see you next week." If she actually comes over to your place unannounced, that's bad. Tell her in very harsh and clear terms that's creepy, a violation of privacy, and unacceptable, and if she does it again she'll be nexted. And of course if she does it again, next!
Bradley 2015-12-05 18:38:22
BD, I know that you said it's OK to be romantic with a MLTR, and do things like take her out on dates, allow her to spend the night etc. But, do you feel it's OK to bring her on a vacation, an overseas trip, or a company event, like a retreat or office party; Or do you feel that those type of things should only be reserved for OLTR's? Also, what do you recommend is the appropriate way to handle a mltr that keeps trying to find "slick" ways to see you more than once a week; like trying to come over for lunch or breakfast after you've seen her once already, or popping up unannounced etc. ?
Blackdragon 2015-08-10 22:38:34
It's not fair to punish a woman for violating a rule she never knew existed. If you never specified the rule "don't fuck any of my friends / family members," and she does so, that's your problem. I would never, ever next a woman for this; it's not her fault; she didn't do anything "wrong." It's an open relationship. If you have a problem with it, you can tell her calmly and see what she does. But again, it was your fault for not stating that as a parameter of the relationship beforehand. Of course if you and her DID clearly and verbally agree to that rule and then she violated it behind your back, then of course I would instantly next, or perhaps downgrade to FB.
Bradley 2015-08-10 22:09:27
I should've been a little clearer on the last question. What I was getting at was, what if your OLTR or your "long-term favorite" MLTR (that you had strong feeling for) started seeing a friend, family member, co-worker etc. (that you introduced her to at a party, company setting etc.) behind your back. Would you recommend permanently "nexting" her, and if so, how would you go about doing it, would you have a discussion with her or completely ignore her/never speak to her again?
Blackdragon 2015-08-10 18:14:44
do you normally bring your MLTR’s around your friends, family (parents, siblings etc.) and co-workers or do you think that’s more of a role for an OLTR?That's for OLTR, or perhaps ONE MLTR (your long-term favorite).
Also, if you met a girl that struck you as possibly being “loose” (for lack of a better word) based on the things that she’s told you (she started having sex at a very young age, watches a lot of porn, is dating multiple guys at the same time etc.), but you like having sex with her, she has a good personality, and you enjoy spending time with her. Would you still consider her for a MLTR or would you relegate her to the lessor role of a FB?None of those things you listed bother me at all. She's valid for an MLTR provided she's not giving me any drama or causing me any problems. I like sex-positive, high sex drive women.
I know that you say that in MLTR’s and OLTR’s, the girl is allowed to date other guys, but if a guy found out that one of his MLTR’s / OLTR was involved with one of his friends, family member’s, co-worker etc., how would you recommend that he handle that situation?If it was an MLTR I wouldn't care. If it was an OLTR, likely you both would have already had that discussion. Usually one of the ground rules for OLTR is "don't fuck my friends without checking with me first."
Bradley 2015-08-10 13:40:39
A couple of quick questions BD; do you normally bring your MLTR's around your friends, family (parents, siblings etc.) and co-workers or do you think that's more of a role for an OLTR? Also, if you met a girl that struck you as possibly being "loose" (for lack of a better word) based on the things that she's told you (she started having sex at a very young age, watches a lot of porn, is dating multiple guys at the same time etc.), but you like having sex with her, she has a good personality, and you enjoy spending time with her. Would you still consider her for a MLTR or would you relegate her to the lessor role of a FB? And one last thing, I know that you say that in MLTR's and OLTR's, the girl is allowed to date other guys, but if a guy found out that one of his MLTR's / OLTR was involved with one of his friends, family member's, co-worker etc., how would you recommend that he handle that situation?
Blackdragon 2014-05-10 17:24:15
I love reading about stories like yours, Wes. Well done!
Wes 2014-05-09 11:41:40
I have never had an open relationship before and up until I found your blog I never thought an open relationship was possible. After reading your posts I am convinced that open relationships are the only way to go and I am going to only have open relationships for the rest of my life. Since I haven't bought your books yet because I'm saving up right now I had to try and figure out how to communicate this to girls. The first girl I slept with for 2 months, once a week, but never had a talk with her and she ended up telling me she was not interested anymore before I could have a talk with her. I'm proud to say I had my first talk with a new girl I started dating a couple weeks ago.I am 26 and she is 20. First date was a drink at a bar followed by drink at my place, no sex. Second date, drinks ay my place, we had sex. She is very inexperienced but it was still very good. Third date at my place, she started asking me if I'm a whore haha that I am too sexy and that she is worried I am sleeping with these other girls. I told her I am not sleeping with anyone at the moment but if I do then I will be safe and use a condom. That upset her. She doesn't like the idea of me kissing and sleeping with other girls mainly becausue she doesn't want to get a disease. I told her I have high standards and don't just kiss any girl and that she is free to kiss and sleep with whoever she wants. I asked her if she knew any monogomous relationship s that work and she said no. She left happy as ever and she said she loves how honest I am. I think this one is a potential MLTR. You have enlightned me BD, and I am forever grateful. I can't wait to be able to afford to buy a few of your books, I know they will help me. Just wanted to share my first experience of the BD lifestlye and look forward to learning and improving.
Blackdragon 2013-12-10 20:19:30
Do you communicate (on phone) with your other women while you’re with one of them?Texting a little, maybe. But not talking on the phone with girl A while girl B is sitting in front of me...no. That would be very rude. And a catalyst for drama. In an OLTR, that might be okay. Not with MLTRs or FBs.
Oxyjinn 2013-12-10 13:40:47
BD Do you communicate (on phone) with your other women while you're with one of them? And if yes, what's usually her reaction and yours thereafter?
AB 2013-12-10 11:37:21
These marriages where both sides are completely into each other just like they were at the start seem more like fables than reality in my experience. I always hear about them, but rarely if ever actually see them. Most of my guy friends report very similar experiences to my own with their wives or long term girlfriends. It's just nature. At least it's starting to get some mainstream exposure. Sexless marriages are the rule, not the exception, by a long shot and there are quite simple reasons why, but nobody wants to talk about it.
Blackdragon 2013-12-09 19:23:19
No woman can remain interested in the same man for a decade, especially one she married and moved in with and had children with. She will see you more as a family member than a lover. It’s the people that fight against this that end up with all of the resentment and acrimonious divorces.There are always unusual exceptions to every rule, but 95% of the time, what you're saying is exactly right. I've written almost identical words. In a few days I'm posting a big article just for married guys. 🙂
AB 2013-12-09 14:27:26
As a man in his mid 30s who has been married most of his life, every time I read one of your posts I have to agree with most of it. I love my wife, she's great and low drama, but she isn't attracted to me anymore (or at least it's at a very low level now). I used to get upset about this, but not any longer because I get it now. We are loving being parents though and right now I'm happy to keep going the way things are. There's respect and low drama. Someday though I will actually want to be with a woman who is attracted to me again. I assume one day we will divorce. After years on sites like yours though, I'm not even that upset about it anymore. I get it. I married young and was 100% wrapped up in the fantasy of the blue pill life. Once you get a good decade of marriage under your belt, you let go of all of that though. No woman can remain interested in the same man for a decade, especially one she married and moved in with and had children with. She will see you more as a family member than a lover. It's the people that fight against this that end up with all of the resentment and acrimonious divorces. Heck, even if she cheated on me, I wouldn't be that phased. I'd of course leave her no questions asked at this point, but I wouldn't cause a lot of drama. A new guy giving her attention has a huge edge over me in NRE and all of that. None of that is my fault or has anything to do with my level of attraction. It's freeing to finally understand all of this really. When the day comes when we are ready to move on, I imagine I'll live my life much like yours. I'll invest a few years learning how to be in open relationships with women. I never did that. I love women so much that I would never want to go my own way or anything. I just never want them having control over me ever again. Having many open relationships that naturally run their course seems like the perfect plan to a man like me. Thanks for laying the ground work on this.
Blackdragon 2013-12-09 12:02:39
How do you think your results would differ if you lived in Eastern Europe, Asia, or Latin America?I don't live in those countries, but I have dated many women from those countries, have visited many of those countries, and have talked to a lot of men who live in those countries. Generally speaking, women in Europe and S. America (and somewhat in Asia) are more accustomed to mean cheating. Not open relationships, but actual cheating, and are more accustomed to this being a regular part of a relationship or marriage. A woman in Italy or Venezuela is going to be much less likely to dump or a divorce a guy if he's caught cheating than an American woman is. The problem is "accustomed" does not mean "happy with". While that European/S. American woman might stay with you after you cheat on her, she's going to throw more drama at you about it more consistently than an American woman. In my books I call this the "Mediterranean Marriage". You're married (or have a serious GF), you cheat on her regularly, she knows it, hates it, screams at you about constantly, but stays with you anyway because she accepts that "that's what men do". I imagine the FB/MLTR structure in such countries would be more similar to this. More women may actually require you to lie to them about promising to be monogamous (which I personally would never do), and you'd get much more drama about the other women in your life, but your MLTR relationships would likely last much longer there than in the US.
Kevin Velasco 2013-12-09 08:46:03
Very informative. Thanks for sharing. Questions: How do you think your results would differ if you lived in Eastern Europe, Asia, or Latin America?
Blackdragon 2013-12-08 20:22:55
The one thing that us married dudes have over you is never having to use condomsAh, but I don't always have to use condoms. With the long-term trusted few that isn't needed. 🙂 If it's a choice between never having to use condoms but being in the prison of monogamy, or often needing condoms but sometimes not and being able to do whatever I like, I'll happy take option 2. It's funny you bring up marriage...I just finished a big post just for married guys...it goes up on Thursday.
JQ Public 2013-12-08 18:49:46
Hey BD, I admire your lifestyle. Being able to bang a lot of diff women has gotta be pretty awesome. The one thing that us married dudes have over you is never having to use condoms. I have always hated using them. I had many close pregnancy calls as a single man because I hated the latex. With my wife, I never have to use latex. I may be fucking the same old pussy every day, but at least I'm fucking a pussy and not a rubber.
Blackdragon 2013-12-03 10:43:33
how do you deal with one-itis or its potentialRight here: http://www.blackdragon-blog.com/2012/03/11/nine-steps-to-avoid-neediness-and-oneitis/ My guess is you were failing on number 8 in that list (focusing on other women).
TheMaskAndRose 2013-12-02 19:41:35
This is actually quite enlightening. I did not realize you categorized that quickly; I thought that your FBs only got upgraded after many months of good behavior. Interesting.
Revo Luzione 2013-12-02 18:47:09
BD, Longtime reader here, not a frequent commenter. (Tho I have a time or two before, I think.) Again echoing other commenters, this is an absolute manosphere classic post, bookmarked for future reference, and this post alone makes me want to get your ebook. Quick question: how do you deal with one-itis or its potential. I'm going on 3 years in MLTR. Just ended my primary relationship, it was becoming more and more needy, and I was feeling less & less attracted. I've got a couple new ones in the rotation, and I find myself for the first time since fully embracing this lifestyle four years ago, having strong feelings for a woman. She's 22, and super hot, feminine, sexy, giving, and spiritual. (I'm closing on 40 myself, and bringing a lot of value to the table.) I suppose that dovetails into a deeper question about emotions--hers and mine, and how you see relating deeply in your MLTR situation. Thanks, and I look forward to reading your ebook. Revo
Blackdragon 2013-12-02 14:07:16
@Sam - My apologizes, I did not mean to imply that I wanted more information. Your details are off-topic for this post since they are related to dating and seduction rather than relationships. Perhaps some other commenters can assist you.
Sparks 2013-12-02 14:04:39
This is the post I've been waiting on. Excellent stuff as always BD.
Sam 2013-12-02 11:58:40
"I would require much more information to answer that question but my wild guess is if you’re getting a lot of “you need to commit to me before we ever have sex” (which is an insane request) you’re dealing with a lot of women over age 33. Drop your cold-approach age down below 33 or 30 and you’ll find that problem vanishes instantly. Only go for over-33 women who are already within your social circle." Thank you for your reply. I will briefly provide you with more information. Surprisingly, I have been dating women between 20 and 26 years old. I have in mind 7 such women during the last 10 months who one way or another saw me as boyfriend and resisted sex the first time I tried it. Mind you, I take women to my place after the first date. My logistics, however, is terrible, as I live 30kms away from the place of the date. So, there is a 20-minute period in my car. The way I get them to do it is by asking whether they would enjoy a beautiful view. They say "yes" and the next time they ask me where we go is after we drove 15 out of the 30kms. When I arrive home, I take her for a tour in the house and then take her to my balcony for the view. There, within 5 minutes I kiss them on the neck, then on the mount. I get them back in, I serve them a glass of wine, I escalate, they resist my attempts to take off their pants and then I quit trying. I can't help showing my disappointment on the spot in front of her, which I know is very beta on my part, we leave the house, I take her to her place....never to see her again. Last but not least, allow me to add a potential cultural factor; all these are happening in Greece, not the US, UK, or Scandinavia, where sexual mores might be more liberal (?) or could it be that women sense my greater value beyond the purely sexual one and try to slow things down in order to keep me in their lives (?) Thank you in advance
Blackdragon 2013-12-02 11:37:34
I know it’s a little offtrack, but what happens if you want kid(s) with your (obviously) OLTR.You're right...it's offtrack. I've talked about the topic of kids and OLTR in numerous blog posts and in my ebooks. It's a completely different topic than MLTRs/FBs which is what this blog post is about. Go through my blog archive (and ebooks) for more information until the Alpha Male book comes out (which addresses the topic of children in great detail). How strict is the 1x/week rule? Does it HAVE to be 7 days?? It's funny to me how often I get this question. It's no big deal. The answer is you can see her once every calendar week (Sun-Sat), any time in that week. For example, if you see her on Friday, then see her again on the following Monday, that's fine as long as you don't see her again until the following Sunday. It's not "every 7 days", it's once per calendar week.
Is there a crucial time period that you need to have sex with other girls within to keep the mLTR from becoming defacto monogamous?Yes, that time period is ALWAYS. Being de facto monogamous because you aren't having sex with anyone else is extremely, extremely dangerous (for the exact reasons you stated) unless you are very experienced with this stuff and your frame is 100% rock-solid at all times. Even then it's a bad move. That's exactly why I have a 3-women minimum. If my numbers ever drop down to 2 women because of LSNFTEs or nexts or whatever, I immediately come to a full stop, hit up my roster and/or hit up the dating sites and replenish my numbers BEFORE I get down to 1 woman. Once you're down to 1 woman it's too late. I don't ever want to lose my frame or my edge.
Skinny D 2013-12-02 10:50:31
Oh and 1 other question: I'm still working on game and all this so I don't have the full harem together yet. Is there a crucial time period that you need to have sex with other girls within to keep the mLTR from becoming defacto monogamous? I am still dating and getting numbers from other girls and have hooked up but haven't had sex with someone else in probably a month, which I feel is pretty borderline. I feel like I can keep my neediness in check and still project an attitude of having gotten laid recently even if I haven't, but I know they start to smell it on you. Thanks
Skinny D 2013-12-02 10:44:22
2 things: 1) All of your rules and attitudes for this stuff totally work. I've got an mLTR I've been seeing for 4 months (some random sex with others here and there but no other steady girls), who at this point I don't think would even dare to press me for monogamy. She knows her place thanks to my EFA and the way I only see her once a week and don't act like a boyfriend. Well see how it develops. 2) How strict is the 1x/week rule? Does it HAVE to be 7 days?? I'm busy enough that i never see her more than 4x/month but they way my schedule works out sometimes it's maybe 5 days between one visit, but 10 between the next. Is this still cool?
GOB 2013-12-02 10:21:22
BD, your latest two posts are superb! But I think you missed one factor out. I know it's a little offtrack, but what happens if you want kid(s) with your (obviously) OLTR. Then you can't next her, have to suffer a lot more drama, bitching, and if thing go sour, you can't part company with her properly. I know your views in regards of alimony, child support, but how do you handle your "harem" when you have a pregnant girlfriend/wife, or a little baby. That is the time, when social pressure is at the maximum degree, because you have to help your wife with child caring at every waken moment(and beyond that). And if you do your usual stuff, meet other chicks at least semi-regularly, then you "hate your family", "don't love your kid", etc. How do you lay rules for these situations, and how do you defend them, when women say these irrational things, despite the fact that you laid these rules long before you impregnated her.
Blackdragon 2013-12-02 09:57:35
Dear BD, I am relatively new to your blog and my question is more rudimentary; how do you get sex with women, while projecting the FB mentality, given the fact that many women want me to verbally or non-verbally invest in them first before they “let me” bed them. I am a 30-year-old man and I get a date with a different woman every month exclusively through a 5-minute cold approach. However, things end abruptly when I meet last minute resistance and when I refuse to play their “invest first, sex later” game.I would require much more information to answer that question but my wild guess is if you're getting a lot of "you need to commit to me before we ever have sex" (which is an insane request) you're dealing with a lot of women over age 33. Drop your cold-approach age down below 33 or 30 and you'll find that problem vanishes instantly. Only go for over-33 women who are already within your social circle.
Blackdragon called her HBspunky, if im not confusing her with someone else.Spunky is someone else. Great gal. She's one of my redheads; 27 when I started dating her, about 31 now. She just got married...to a another woman. True story. Bisexuals are awesome. I can't wait to spend time with her again when circles back to men (like all bisexual women eventually do) and gets a divorce.
Now that we are on it, I guess your MRTL of fours years was HBMyspace, the asian one you posted the “drunk UNO” video of. What happened with that one?Yes, she's my longest consistent MLTR so far. I downgraded her about a year ago (to lower-level MLTR) but I still see her about once a week. (I see her tomorrow.) Yes, she was the Asian with the drunk UNO. (That was many years ago though and she looks a little different now though.) No, she was not my first MLTR. My first true-blue MLTR relationship was that 18 year-old Jack mentioned. HBM came later.
Alejandro 2013-12-02 07:26:35
Funny I actually remembered what Jack was talking about and suddenly remembered a lot of other shit. I guess I have a good memory too! Blackdragon called her HBspunky, if im not confusing her with someone else. Was she the one who threw kinf of a party at your place where two guys ended up fighting and got blood on your carpet?? Now that we are on it, I guess your MRTL of fours years was HBMyspace, the asian one you posted the "drunk UNO" video of. What happened with that one? I also remember that was the first time a girl got you to send a text to some other guy who was bothering her.
Sam 2013-12-02 04:32:53
Dear BD, I am relatively new to your blog and my question is more rudimentary; how do you get sex with women, while projecting the FB mentality, given the fact that many women want me to verbally or non-verbally invest in them first before they "let me" bed them. I am a 30-year-old man and I get a date with a different woman every month exclusively through a 5-minute cold approach. However, things end abruptly when I meet last minute resistance and when I refuse to play their "invest first, sex later" game. I would appreciate your input
Blackdragon 2013-12-02 00:42:19
On average, how many girls will you see (i.e. sleep with) in a year’s time frame? I’m not asking how many new girls. I’m talking about the total number of new girls and girls coming back. It sounds as if you must be sleeping enjoying the romantic company of about 15-20 women per year, every year.I'm not at a computer with my spreadsheets, but in terms of grand total women in a typical year, it was around your guess for many years (15-20). Lately I've been focusing more on business and less on women, so it's dropped since then. My guess would be 10-12 women per year instead of 15-20 as it was years prior. I expect this number to drop a little more as I age, and it will drop WAY down when I get a serious OLTR.
i believe i know the answer already but i would like to see how you respond. if you soft next one of them for a week, do you ever feel you WANT to talk to them (say a particular one you see potential in or something) but make yourself not so as to complete the soft next?Not that I remember. I'm positive that's happened at some point but not in my recent memory. I know the women will always come back (because they're dying to during a soft next) and I always have other women to play with, so it's pretty difficult for me to get that frame of mind.
You say that it takes about 5 months or so before you have to have the talk. You give the talk and the woman thinks it over. What percentage of the girls that make it that far don’t opt for the Poly arrangement?The vast, vast majority do opt in. I would say 90% or higher. However some of these will LSNFTE soon after ("soon" meaning a few weeks or months later). It is very, very rare for me to have a woman dump me immediately after The Talk. There's too much happiness and trust built up by then. For example, the last woman to do that was in her early 40s and extremely religious. That should give you an idea of the extremes a woman has to be to not opt for this.
This may sound crazy, but I was reading some of your early lay reports at the archives of Masf. There was one about an 18 year old girl that ended up offering her other 18 year old friend to you when she fractured her leg. I think this was ’08 or ’09. The girl found your phone and looked at your messages and was shocked that you were trying to bang so many women. She still stayed with you though. I’m real curious, how did that turn out with that girl? I found her somewhat interesting coming through the narrative of the report. Do you still see her? I’m amazed that you can actually have girls “grow” with you even as they come in and out of your life. This stuff is so against the societal norms.Holy crap, you have a really good memory! I am happy to say that both of those women are still in my life and they are both very special to me. I still communicate with them regularly. One of them turns 24 years old in a few months and I was just giving her crap about how "old" she is now...how time flies. To answer the questions, yes, the first girl did stay with me another two or three months after that happened. Then she LSNFTEd me and very quickly married another guy, who quickly cheated on her (of course) and they got a divorce a year or two later (of course). Her and I still hooked up throughout the entire time, but very sporadically, during the marriage (but only after she found he had been cheating on her...then it was "okay" for her to cheat on him...monogamous people are so funny) and after the marriage too. A year or two ago she moved to a distant city but we still keep in touch regularly and the conversation still gets sexual just like old times. The other girl I also really, really like and I continued to see too but much less often. Just a handful of times over the last few years...she tends to be very wishy-washy about me, sometimes "in love" with me and other times never wanting to see or talk to me (while she gets a BF). I last saw her about two months ago and we had a wonderful time. And yes, just like all my women, both of these women know I'm Blackdragon and have read my stuff. (Though frankly not that much, since like most women I date they find what I do for a living boring and don't care about what I say as Blackdragon.)
jack 2013-12-01 21:03:45
Oh, one other thing I wasn't certain about. You say that it takes about 5 months or so before you have to have the talk. You give the talk and the woman thinks it over. What percentage of the girls that make it that far don't opt for the Poly arrangement? Oh make that two other things. This may sound crazy, but I was reading some of your early lay reports at the archives of Masf. There was one about an 18 year old girl that ended up offering her other 18 year old friend to you when she fractured her leg. I think this was '08 or '09. The girl found your phone and looked at your messages and was shocked that you were trying to bang so many women. She still stayed with you though. I'm real curious, how did that turn out with that girl? I found her somewhat interesting coming through the narrative of the report. Do you still see her? I'm amazed that you can actually have girls "grow" with you even as they come in and out of your life. This stuff is so against the societal norms.
Eegs 2013-12-01 20:53:38
i believe i know the answer already but i would like to see how you respond. if you soft next one of them for a week, do you ever feel you WANT to talk to them (say a particular one you see potential in or something) but make yourself not so as to complete the soft next?
jack 2013-12-01 19:03:26
Awesome post. One of your best ever. This is the best way for a man to approach his sexual career if he is going to be a PUA/Player/Poly. Far better than the endless cycles of never ending ONS. But I'll forgive men under 34 for going crazy for that. You're a treasure trove of life enhancing information BD. Your doing the lord's work. And I say that as an atheist. One numerical question. On average, how many girls will you see (i.e. sleep with) in a year's time frame? I'm not asking how many new girls. I'm talking about the total number of new girls and girls coming back. It sounds as if you must be sleeping enjoying the romantic company of about 15-20 women per year, every year.
Blackdragon 2013-12-01 15:21:14
Learn to walk before you learn to run (or fly). If you're starting from absolute zero like I did (older, divorced, no game, shitty appearance, etc), forget about younger women for the time being and focus instead on the absolute hottest women within your age group. Learn dating and seduction. Improve your appearance. Get a few successes with women under your belt and get some experience. Then, if you still want younger women and/or open relationships, then go for it. Starting right after my divorce it was a full 18 months of hardcore dating, trial-and-error, and sex before I started scoring with much younger women or before I really started focusing on how to form open relationships. After 18 months I wasn't GREAT, but I was decent and knew what was what. You have to build a foundation. One step at a time.
Tin Man 2013-12-01 11:10:33
BD...so, where does a Man begin with your process? Especially one that has been married for almost 2 decades, now finds himself single, and realizes he never wants that type of situation again. Also, how does a someone that is a couple years over 50 begin fishing the sub-33YO pond? Is it significantly different from being in your 40's? I guess the first thing is change your mindset (obviously) that he's bought into. Any help or assistance is appreciated.