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What Adulthood Really Means
-By Caleb Jones
Some people believe that adulthood begins when you leave your parents' home and strike out on your own. Other more traditional people believe adulthood begins when you get married. Still others believe it happens as soon as you turn 18. Some more scientific types believe it happens when you turn 25, since that's when the human brain is fully formed.
The point is, there is no real consensus on this, and opinions vary.
When my kids were smaller, I told them that one is not an adult until one has met three criteria:
1. You are 18 years old or older.
2. You do not live with your parents.
3. You can pay 100% of your monthly bills, every month, with zero assistance from your parents.
Then, and only then, I told my kids, are you an "adult". I repeated this to them so often they got sick of hearing it.
A 15 year-old is not an "adult", no matter how smart he/she is. I was very smart when I was 15. I was no where near an adult.
A 25 year-old is not an "adult" if he/she still lives with their parents and relies on their parents' income to maintain a roof over their heads. In my view that person is still a adolescent, at least to some degree.
The same goes for a 23 year-old away at college, living on his/her parent's money for living expenses. Or the 27 year-old single mother whose own mother helps her out with bills on a regular basis. This is simply another variation of living off your parents. These people are not what I would call "adults".
Why am I putting quotes around the word "adult" in the above paragraphs? Because I was telling my kids this not to clarify the definition of the word "adult", but to impress upon them the meaning of independence and freedom. Once you're 18 years old (legal age of adulthood in most areas), don't live with your parents, and don't rely on your parents, then you can do whatever you want independent of your parents. If all three of these conditions are not true, your parents still exert great control over your life regardless of your numerical age, and no matter how smart or tough you think you are.
However, the true meaning of the word "adult" is a little different.
I was talking about the logistics and external circumstances of being an adult, especially in terms of personal independence. I believe, and still believe strongly, in my above definition.
However, what an adult actually is makes for a different conversation entirely.
What Is An Adult?
What if I told you that my real definition for who an adult is is one that most people never qualify for? What if I told you that, based on my real adulthood definition, most people in society never reach true adulthood, ever, even well into their 50s or 60s?
It's true. I think most people walking around are not adults at all. At least not how I define the term. Here is my real definition for adulthood :
Adulthood is reached when one fully realizes and acknowledges the falsehoods taught to him as a younger person.Adulthood is reached when you finally realize and acknowledge (since realizing and acknowledging are two different things!) that 2 + 2 does not equal 5. It happens when you realize that not only is there no Santa Clause or Easter Bunny, but that women don't stay monogamous forever, all the politicians you vote for are owned by big banks, a calorie from lettuce is very different than a calorie from a doughnut or an egg, and a whole bunch of other horrific truths that you were lied to about throughout your childhood, adolescence, and early adulthood.
By this standard, most of the population (as in more than 50%) never reach adulthood at all, even if they live to age 90 before departing this mortal coil. Many others do eventually reach adulthood, but only at much older ages.
My Adulthood, Or Lack Thereof
I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't reach adulthood until I was about 31-32 years old. For example, I spent much of my twenties voting for Republicans. This was because, and again I'm embarrassed to admit this, I thought they would actually make government smaller if they were elected. I mean, that's what everyone said. Rush Limbaugh said it, and my conservative friends said it. Even the left-wing liberals said it. "Don't vote for Republicans! They'll make government smaller! NOOO!!!!" So everyone said it, even the people who hated Republicans. Since I wanted government to get smaller, I voted for Republicans.
It took me over 10 years to realize everyone was lying to me about this, even the left-wingers. And not only about that, but about everything else too.
Back then, before adulthood, I would do things like eat fat-free but high-sugar and high-calorie cookies in an effort to lose weight. I would try to turn women on sexually by buying them fancy dinners and flowers and telling them how pretty they were.
I operated on autopilot, doing exactly what society told me about these things, never questioning that all of society would be lying to me so blatantly about how the world worked.
Now, in my defense, I didn't do everything wrong. As a young man, I could see that college was complete bullshit, so I intelligently skipped over that one and went right into the corporate world and started my own business a few years later. That ended up being one of the best decisions of my entire life. I shudder to think what would have happened if I had wasted four years of prime time and going tens of thousands of dollars into debt by learning about things that had no application in the real world.
I did a few other things right too. Seeing the chaos monogamy caused all of my buddies at the time, I never promised monogamy to anyone, ever, from puberty all the way to age 25. Very few men can say the same.
So while I didn't do everything wrong, but I was still a child all the way until my early 30s, when I started to realize that societal "wisdom", or should I say programming, was completely wrong on just about very major life topic.
Adulthood For You
You may be an adult (based on my above definition) or you may not be. If you're not, you may get there someday, or you may never get there. You may get there in certain areas, but tenaciously hold on to certain Societal Programming in others, not letting them go.
You may get to the point where you realize certain things, but don't acknowledge them. That still means you're not an adult, because an adult does both.
An example of someone who realizes but does not acknowledge would be the progressive who knows Obama bombs civilian targets on purpose and authorizes the NSA to read your personal email, but votes for him anyway. It would also be the high sex drive, well-read manosphere guy who gets married, monogamous, and doesn't sign a prenup anyway, because he thinks he's "screened" well or will make it work by being an "Alpha with his wife" or something.
Hey, I'll admit it: getting to adulthood is a painful process. It hurts to admit that the things you were told to want aren't possible, or that the world isn't what you were told it was. It's hard to switch around major parts of your life, or future plans, to adjust to the new realities you've discovered...realities you may not like or agree with.
I went through this in my early 30s. It was rough. I didn't like many of the facts I uncovered. It involved a lot of personal upset and upheaval. It also was a factor in a divorce I had to go through, which was also tough.
Was transitioning to adulthood worth it?
I now live a lifestyle that young, excited 23 year-old me did not even think was possible. And that's saying a lot, because I had some big goals back then. Today, my typical Mondays are more exciting than young guy's Christmases. I'm not exaggerating.
This lifestyle would not have been possible if I had chosen to stay a child. And I mean chosen, because often it is indeed a choice. By going through the temporary pain of adulthood, I experience more consistent happiness than I ever thought possible.
My only regret is that I hadn't done it sooner.
Be an adult, or not. The choice is yours.
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Andrian-TQM 2014-06-19 06:28:57
*Adulthood is reached when one fully realizes and acknowledges the falsehoods taught to him as a younger person.* There. You said everything. Great post!
superslaviswife 2014-06-19 08:42:11
From my own perspective, I'd add a further bit. An adult is someone who is emotionally and ideologically independent. That's not to say that your emotions and ideology should be entirely detached from other humans, because that is impossible. But someone who follows other people's leads because of emotional bonds or who holds a belief because of external influence is not independent, however old, educated or financially independent they may be. Think of the difference between the leftist that acknowledges the political system is dead but votes because he believes voting will change something and the leftist that acknowledges the political system is dead but votes to hedge his bets ("If it's dead, I change nothing, if it isn't, I may have an influence."); or the red-piller man who marries into a 2.0 marriage out of blind love versus the red-piller man who marries because that's what he wants, he's covered as many aspects as he can consider and he's willing to take the risks. In both cases the ideology and the decision are the same (a leftist with no faith in politics who votes and a red-piller who gets into a marriage 2.0). However the first example in both cases is someone who is still blindly following someone else's beliefs, whereas the second example is someone who is taking action based on their own carefully formulated and analyzed beliefs. There is no perfect "one fits all" action for every situation, no decision that makes you an adult or that symbolizes your transition into adulthood. But making that decision on your own, without letting someone else's voice cloud your mind and fully acknowledging the possible results is part and parcel of adulthood.
Jon 2014-06-19 09:04:09
Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny were easy. It took me until well into my 30s to figure out they were lying to me about God/Jesus too. It is incredibly freeing to realize that I'm not being constantly monitored by a magical anthropomorphic immortal who's waiting to set me on fire if I don't kiss his ass.
Blackdragon 2014-06-19 11:12:15
Think of the difference between the leftist that acknowledges the political system is dead but votes because he believes voting will change something and the leftist that acknowledges the political system is dead but votes to hedge his bets (“If it’s dead, I change nothing, if it isn’t, I may have an influence.”).If that leftist really thinks he "may" have an influence on the $3.4 trillion United States federal government by punching a chad once every four years, he is not an adult (as I define the term).
or the red-piller man who marries into a 2.0 marriage out of blind love versus the red-piller man who marries because that’s what he wantsIf a man really wants an absolutely monogamous marriage with no prenuptial agreement, he's not a red-piller. (At least not a real one.)
PUA Brian Kinney 2014-06-19 11:43:58
My definition for adulthood is your two definitions combined toghether. So, our parents actually did a worse job than we thought ha ha, because they reinforce our societal programming and dogmas instead of changing them. So they're doing the opposite job trying to make us independent healthy adults Thank God I am a Bertrand Russel fan since I was a little kid (Enjoy guys): 1. I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong. 2. This is one of those views which are so absolutely absurd that only very learned men could possibly adopt them. 3. One should as a rule respect public opinion in so far as is necessary to avoid starvation and to keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny, and is likely to interfere with happiness in all kinds of ways. 4. Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom. 5. Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones. PUA Brian Kinney
Dawson Stone 2014-06-19 12:10:33
I mostly agree with BD and perhaps my differences of opinion are more semantics. I agree that over 95% of adults are either oblivious or are driven by the brainwashing of their youth; be it religion, culture, society, Disney, whatever. But to Jon's point, some are easier than others. Easter Bunny and Santa are easy. How about: - Romantic love (aka soul mates) - God or some other higher unifying force - Free will My definition of an adult would be someone that is capable of doing what is nearly impossible…extracting all ego and emotion from decision making. But the problem is asymptotical. You can get closer and closer (and should continue to try to) but you can never get there. I would say a more realistic goal (and the one I try to set for my teenage daughter) is to not let ego or emotions drive our biggest decisions. What job we take. Who we marry (if we are dumb enough to do so). Where we live. Where and if we go to school. That plus financial independence qualifies in my book.
AKA 2014-06-19 16:59:29
The USA is a 2 party system. While the repubs may not shrink government, the Dems surely are not going to. In a 2 party system, those are your choices. The TEA Party is not part of the 2 party system. TEA partiers will usually run as republicans. Yes. I hate both of the parties too.
Bellum 2014-06-20 00:48:43
Great post. Obviously I don't agree with your views on monogamy, but maybe I'l wrong and will learn the hard way. My first great upset was coming to terms with the fact that I'm not free at all, but a slave to my environment. The second was when I discovered the Red Pill in Australia. I went from Beta to Alpha, and recently from the Dark Side over to the Light Side. This process took 6 years, from 24 to 30. I'm very lucky that my father lived like a hermit, saw life for what it was and explained it to me when I was a teenager. Accepting reality was much easier since I was rather sceptical from the start. I was also blessed with an exceptional economics teacher in high school. That woman would start every lesson for four years yelling: "life is not a fairytale: plan for the worst, hope for the best, never sign anything without reading it first, never get married without a prenup, hard work doesn't pay, smart work does, ect...".
Blackdragon 2014-06-20 01:52:11
The USA is a 2 party system. While the repubs may not shrink government, the Dems surely are not going to. In a 2 party system, those are your choices.Actually, as I've talked about before, there are a few other choices available: 1. Refuse to vote, and design a lifestyle where government involvement is minimal so it doesn't matter (too much) what they do wrong. (Have your own business in a non-regulated industry, don't have any employees, make decent money but not too much, make sure you have plenty saved for your retirement, don't get legally married, etc, etc.) 2. Vote for a third party. No, they won't win, but at least you can tell people with absolute, complete honesty and congruence that you're not part of the problem and that this is all happening over your objection. People who vote for Democrats or Republicans cannot say the same. 3. Leave the US (or Europe) and live somewhere else with a less-bad government, or at least make plans to do so in the near to mid future. Yes, all governments suck these days, but there are some out there not quite as bad as the US if you add up all the good and bad.
Great post. Obviously I don’t agree with your views on monogamy, but maybe I’l wrong and will learn the hard way.If you're in an absolutely monogamous relationship and avidly reading red pill sites and enjoying them, then yes, you will learn eventually (unless you enjoy drama). And yes, possibly the hard way (when you have enough bad breakups, or get cheated on, or get caught cheating yourself).
I was also blessed with an exceptional economics teacher in high school. That woman would start every lesson for four years yelling: “life is not a fairytale: plan for the worst, hope for the best, never sign anything without reading it first, never get married without a prenup, hard work doesn’t pay, smart work does, ect…”.Sounds like the greatest teacher ever. If only all of could have had such.
nihilist 2014-06-21 16:57:13
"You can get closer and closer (and should continue to try to) but you can never get there." - Dawson Stone I agree with this, as it is absolutely necessary to fill yourself with varying delusions and false hopes in order to function as an organism. If the hard reality is fully accepted ("Adulthood is reached when one fully realizes and acknowledges the falsehoods taught to him as a younger person." - Blackdragon), I think suicide is the result. The way I see it, no one alive today has reached adulthood; only those who take their own lives after understanding the nature of things are fully cognizant, 100% of the time, of what this life is all about. In other words, what most have been taught is in complete contradiction to the way things are out there, and we need to cling to some of these things to function. Non-falsehoods: - Human life is the 4 billion-year manifestation of a DNA molecule that has undergone competitive evolution and acquired an eccentric psychology that allows it to delude itself into the idea that it is accomplishing something. Ultimately, your "precious" life will mean nothing someday. This is a futile existence, an absolute waste. - We live in a deterministic universe. No, this is not fatalism, it's DETERMINISM. - Procreation is a sadistic act, and anyone who has children only did so/does so because of societal programming that scammed them for the benefit of society, aka someone else's kingdom, or because they're ego maniacs who are dealing with serious ego deficits. Saying things like "I had my kids out of love" is nonsensical (see above: sadism). - Eroticism is all about humiliating some other human; what is truly erotic is the process of degrading someone else. - At birth, you enter into a state of deprivation that will plague you until death. I could go on, but I won't. The thing is, though, no one will be able to refute any of the above non-falsehoods with logic. The only responses, if any, will be emotional pleas for more positivity. Hence, the delusions/false hopes previously mentioned.
Nihilist 2014-06-21 22:00:19
Dawson Stone, Procreation is obviously aligned with hard ego and emotion, and yet you have a daughter. Is she adopted? If not, when did your views shift from societal brainwashing to more along the lines of logic?
Dawson Stone 2014-06-22 12:20:38
@Nihilist You and I need to hang out more. I agree with much of what you say but not all. I do feel I can refute your position with logic. I actually think living in the matrix is actually a genetic / natural selection advantage. Deluding oneself makes it MUCH more likely that you will have children and more of them. Where you and I diverge is that I see my life and consciousness in general as an incredible gift. A fluke but still wonderful. I am a very happy person. I do NOT think suicide is the result of awareness. I KNOW that nothing I do will ultimately matter. I am an amazing father and it EMOTIONALLY gives me joy even though I LOGICALLY know that it will not ultimately matter. All joy and happiness is in the moment and is found through emotionality and vulnerability. We experience happiness and the feeling is REAL. One can make decisions logically and live emotionally even though the only meaning that can be found is the meaning we assign. In essence, treating life like a game where we try to get the highest score. I do this competitive cycle class where they have everyone's scores on the board. I really enjoy when I win even though I know it doesn't mean anything. It still makes the experience more fun and exciting. Treat life like a happy coincidence not as something that will sadly end and have no meaning. That's true but we can still enjoy it while it lasts all the while having our eyes wide open. As to your question about having a child. Without question it was 100% because of programming. With that said, my daughter has been an incredible teacher to me. Much of my growing awareness has come from having to guide her through her life. There is always ego and emotions in being a parent. I work VERY VERY hard to extract my ego and try to never make it about myself. I am mostly successful. But I will never deny that one of the most self involved things a human can do is to have a child. I do not see life (for me or my daughter) as one of deprivation but one of abundance. Anything is possible. I don't want her to believe in god for so many reasons not the least of which is I don't want her to think god has a plan for her…I want her to make one for herself. Would I do it all over again? I think I would. I wouldn't have gotten married but I would have one (and ONLY one) child. Partly because I am confident I can guide her to a happy albeit ultimately meaningless life. And I would still argue that is definitely worth living. One can see the absurdity of life and still live with great joy even knowing all the while it won't ultimately matter. I would love for you to contact me directly and if you like. Dawson
superslaviswife 2014-06-23 01:39:09
I dunno. Local representatives in the Midlands at the moment are slowly changing their tune due to how many votes UKIP and the damn Green Party got in their constituencies. The odd policy here and there that was looming is now quiet and they're still failing to enforce previous policies due to local dissent. So it can change your own life, even if on a minor scale. And I know only three men who have fully acknowledged the nature of human relationships. One is single, one is in an OLTR and the other is in the process of marrying me, 1.0. All acknowledge and accept the same truths about humans, all came to the conclusions through a combination of personal experience and research and all agree with each other and understand each other's decision, but all operate differently and want different things out of life. Using terms like "true Red Piller" just leads into a definitions argument. The end of it is, all of them have the same understanding, but have reached for different lifestyles based on their wants, needs and what life has thrown at them.
Blackdragon 2014-06-23 10:18:19
UKIP is fantastic and I'm extremely proud of those guys for going against Societal Programming. But you have to admit that UKIP's success is an exception to the rule when it comes to European politics. And you were the one who brought up the term "red piller", not me. I'll say it again. The man you are marrying, if he's agreeing to forever monogamy and not making you sign a prenuptial agreement, is not a "red piller", and if he is an Alpha now (1.0 or 2.0) in a few years he will be a either beta or a divorced Alpha. One of the two. Forever monogamy does not work, especially for Alphas, no matter how badly the Alpha (or you) want it as a lifestyle.
nihilist 2014-06-23 19:58:15
dawson stone, I don't know how to contact you - clicked on your name but it's a broken link - you can contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org
superslaviswife 2014-06-24 00:23:34
Again, the tides are changing. I'm not saying it will stick, but the rise of FN, GD, etc shows that Europe is getting at least a little tired of being lied to. Many UKIP voters are just voting UKIP to make a point about the tories no longer being conservative and labour no longer being socialist, to raise the fact their actual choice isn't available to them, just some sort of liberal centre-right wherever they look. We're talking about a man who, on one hand got through more women in seven years than most men do in a lifetime, despite being a minor when he started and always being monogamous (even if the relationship lasted only a night it was one girl at a time, so serial monogamist, but I digress). On the other hand he was voluntarily celibate for over five years looking for a wifely woman (despite the fact he received numerous advances even outside game-prone scenes and adopting clothing and hair that dissuade most hookup-minded women) and waited a further four or five months into our relationship before having sex. He'd almost decided from before we'd had sex that I was the woman he wanted to reproduce with, and afterwards we settled on the number of children, ages apart, education and even some names. He was looking forward to marrying me if all worked out after a few years, which it did. It's like he locks his mind on something he wants and runs it through until he gets it, no matter how small the odds. He operates oddly, but I like it. Call him whatever you like, in the manosphere he's been called everything from a Beta pushover for agreeing with me on anything to an absolute Alpha for the number of women he can attract. All I know is that he's perfection.
Blackdragon 2014-06-24 10:56:51
he was voluntarily celibate for over five years looking for a wifely woman
waited a further four or five months into our relationship before having sex
He’d almost decided from before we’d had sex that I was the woman he wanted to reproduce with, and afterwards we settled on the number of children, ages apart, education and even some namesWow. He's an extreme beta. (Doesn't matter if he fucked lots of girls "years ago". He's a beta now.) So yeah, his odds of long-term monogamy are not quite as terrible if he was an Alpha, but they're still terrible, mainly because of you. The likely outcome is that in a few years (after the marriage) you will get bored with him and either cheat or leave. That what happens when women marry betas like this, especially if we're talking about a woman who enjoys reading the manosphere(!) Let's see in 10 years if you're still A) married and B) 100% monogamous still. But I really don't want the discussion on this blog post to be about your relationship. Do whatever you like.
Dawson Stone 2014-06-24 13:30:14
@SuperSlaviswife Calling anyone "perfection" is a recipe for disaster. From there it can only go in one direction. Clearly way too many Disney movies. Romantic love by definition makes you see someone LESS (MUCH LESS) objectively than normal. Minimizing any flaws and expanding any good traits. Having an extremely flawed view of someone is about the worst foundation I can imagine upon which to build a relationship. Base your relationship on value-based affection and see each other objectively. "Perfection" by definition…NOT objective. And why the need to define everything in advance? Let's say you decide you want to have 3 kids and your first one is born autistic. Do you still want three kids? Now you have an expectation you have "missed" and will feel disappointed by. Examine your premises about what a healthy, balanced relationship looks like. All of this having NOTHNG to do with monogamy. I would argue that in a healthy romantic relationship (monogamous or otherwise) you are NEVER focused on the outcome. Find someone you love being with. If as a result you decide to have children, marry, whatever…great for you. By deciding what the finish line looks like in advance you undermine your ability to be objective in your journey together…seeking evidence to support the conclusion you started with and ignoring evidence you don't like. Dawson
superslaviswife 2014-06-26 02:52:19
Call him whatever you like. I gave up on understanding other people's categorizations of Beta and Alpha long ago, seeing as half the people I talk to call him one and half call him the other (and always an extreme of either, funnily enough). All I know is that he's the only human being I have ever had any interest in, that I feel just as excited and happy by him as I did when he first said he loved me and that the bond grows the more time I spend with him, as human hormonal bonding tends to do. And yes, it's derailed a bit. My final conclusion was basically that outcome is less relevant than motivation in determining adulthood. Adults can make two radically different decisions, but so long as they make them thoughtfully, from an informed perspective and having factored-in all possible outcomes, they are adult decisions. Adulthood isn't being right, knowing anything in particular or agreeing with one perspective over another. It's being rational about your perspectives and decisions.
superslaviswife 2014-06-26 03:00:45
@Dawson: I can't think of any other way of explaining it. We started out with similar outlooks on life, similar interests, identical goals, near-identical philosophies. We continue to learn and grow together. We have only argued a couple of times in three years and each time it was about our families, not ourselves. We still feel the same way about each other as we did when we met. We find each other ridiculously attractive subjectively, even though both of us understand we hover around a 7 in real-world terms. We haven't ever experienced what is here called "drama" despite debating everything from religion, to politics, to child-rearing, to money, to philosophy. In short, we match up. Which makes him perfect, at least for me. And romantic love for romantic love's sake is a ridiculous concept. It invariably results in separation or annoyance. We both set out looking for someone to marry and have children with. We agree on the number of children, names and education. Yes, those plans could change. For example, we have now agreed that, ignoring a massive shift in our lives or the housing market, we should not bother striving for house ownership, which was one of our original goals. No argument, no looking for a middle ground. It makes no sense to try and buy today, so we debated and agreed not to. It's not about rigid plans, but about objectives, having an idea of what you want and how you'll get it. Starting a relationship with nothing in mind but seeing where it will go seems empty to me.
Blackdragon 2014-06-26 09:26:45
All I know is that he’s the only human being I have ever had any interest in, that I feel just as excited and happy by him as I did when he first said he loved me and that the bond grows the more time I spend with him, as human hormonal bonding tends to do.Yes. That's called NRE. It will pass.
Adults can make two radically different decisions, but so long as they make them thoughtfully, from an informed perspective and having factored-in all possible outcomes, they are adult decisions.Exactly. If he makes you sign a prenup, doesn't promise or expect forever monogamy, keeps all his finances 100% separate from yours, and makes you sign a parenting plan before you have any children, then his marriage to you is an "adult decision factoring all possible outcomes". If he doesn't, it's not.
superslaviswife 2014-06-26 13:41:46
NRE that has lasted three and a half years? And not faded or altered apart from for a few hours at a time, with these hours never increasing in frequency and usually hovering around the end of my hormonal cycle? Fair enough, they're your beliefs. And considering he knows me and trusts his own decision-making skills, as I also do, I'd say he's factored every possible outcome. Them being permanence (whether the love stays or not is irrelevant to our relationship, though it's a very nice perk), mental illness or death. There's a reason it took him so long to find someone he considered worth the trouble of marrying. And there's a reason he chose me above every other female available.
superslaviswife 2014-06-26 13:43:28
Well, three and a bit. I think we started dating in a March, though it may have been a bit earlier or later. Still.
Dawson Stone 2014-06-26 22:14:53
@SuperSlavIsWife I really do want to be respectful here because I have no doubt from reading your blog and your posts that you are a very bright woman. But your ability to be objective with regard to your relationship is stunningly lacking. If you could read your posts dispassionately and objectively you would see the absurdity of your position. It sounds like you have a relationship based on value based affection…an excellent start. But your assertion that it will always remain that way for the duration of your lives is absurd and unknowable. You are focused on the outcome. To BD's point, you don't have a prenup, parenting plan, and separate finances (I assume…correct me if I am wrong). You talk about "he chose me over every other female available." That is PURE ego. First, totally untrue. Don't care how much of a player your man was before his 1/2 decade of celibacy but he has NOT sampled every woman on the planet. Of the people that lived in his area, spoke his language and he happened to come in contact with, you were his favorite. NOTHING more than that. To pretend otherwise is silly. And yes, NRE can easily last a few years. Besides, you are CLEARLY looking through the wrong lens. You are emotionally invested in him being the right guy. You seek evidence to support that conclusion and dismiss evidence you don't like. I am not saying that deep, sustainable romantic affection can't exist. I am simply saying that it should be the side effect and NOT the goal. You have it as the goal which undermines the process. "We both set out looking for someone to marry and have children with." Seriously? Does that sound healthy and rational? TOTALLY focused on the outcome. How about his. "We both set out to find a person that we had an amazing connection with intellectually, spiritually, emotionally, sexually, etc and if and ONLY if we found that person we would perhaps consider children and co-habitation all the while knowing it will last for as long as it lasts and makes both of us happy." THAT is healthy and rational. A person that was really being 100% rational and objective KNOWS there are no guarantees in life. ZERO. To pretend otherwise is to delude oneself. Dawson
superslaviswife 2014-06-27 01:02:11
@Dawson: If I hadn't found him or someone like him (approximately 700 to 1000 men in the world would have fit the bill, so I had fairly good odds, but anyhow) I wouldn't have settled. Just because I was looking for something doesn't mean I had any confidence in finding it. It just means that I was off the market apart from any guy who met the requirements, and vice-versa for him. One of those requirements was the outcome. Marriage and children is the only reason I would consider spending more than a week at a time with someone and therefore I had to find someone I would be happy to spend that time with. After all, my main priority is to reproduce extensively, have fit and healthy children and raise them in the most productive environment. So I made a friend and the friend became a partner and eventually I felt comfortable in that he would make a good husband and father. And yes, nothing can be known for certain. But I trust in what I know of our nature. The same way I put money away assuming I will live to over 100 but make a point of enjoying every day, the same way I make plans for having genius children or mentally disabled ones, the same way I keep the house in order in case of an inspection but don't stress about it, I know there's always a chance something may change. He and I both know that if our characters change too much it would be over. One of his conditions is I could never, bar extreme illness, get fat. But he also knows that would be so far outside my character to do that to myself that I'd have to become an entirely different person, a sort of person that currently disgusts me. Same goes for every other trait he wouldn't like to see in me. Likewise, he'd have to become something that deeply disgusted him so as to be any less attractive to me. But that wouldn't end due to cheating and I for one would never have another partner, except perhaps for the sole purpose of reproducing were IVF too costly. It would end because we were no longer anything like the sort of person we want to be. Which is highly unlikely. It's like BD becoming Blue Pill, Roosh going gay or Forney declaring himself a feminist. That's the sort of change that would be required to put us off each other. Possible, but how likely?
superslaviswife 2014-06-27 01:07:38
@Dawson: And yes, a lot of our relationship is built on ego. Both of us are narcissistic to some extent and a massive chunk of our romance is based on the fact we see ourselves reflected in each other. He's somewhat like a male me and I'm somewhat like a female him. And the more time we spend together, the more our mannerisms, speech, ideas and even to a degree our bodies look alike. Which is probably the single most attractive thing I've ever known in a human being. Which leads to more time being together, more time talking and more sex. Which causes us to become even more similar. Ad infinitum.
Dawson Stone 2014-06-27 12:37:19
@SuperSlavIsWife I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I have the benefit of experience as it seems that you have not yet had child(ren) with your guy or been together 10+ years (that is the benchmark for me of a relationship that has really stood the test of time). With that said, you made your argument about as well as anyone could and it does seem like you have a special relationship. It would be interesting if I was one of your man's guy buddies to hear his perspective. Anyway, best of luck to you both. Dawson
Living Abroad When You’re Younger - Caleb Jones 2019-02-10 05:01:11
[…] As I’ve talked about before, it is in your early twenties when men tend to be the most mobile and the most free. […]