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Powerful Men Cheat, Women Put Up With It
-By Caleb Jones
Here is a recent post to the Dear Abby advice column. It is a copy and paste, but I bolded some of the type at the bottom.
DEAR ABBY: I have met a darling man I'm compatible with in every way. We have similar tastes in just about everything from decorating and landscaping to entertainment. My problem is his past. From what he says, he has never had a monogamous relationship, even during his marriage. After the divorce he pursued anything female. When we are out at a club or a concert, I constantly encounter women he has been with. He tells me he is happy for the first time in his life and he would never cheat on me. I have never been the jealous type, and I'm really not now. I just don't want to be the woman everyone is laughing at because they know his history. As I said, we are content and happy, but I need to move past this or move on, I guess. -- THE CURRENT WOMAN DEAR CURRENT WOMAN: You say this "darling" man has never had a monogamous relationship -- before, during or after his marriage. Therefore, the odds aren't great that he'll have one with you. It's time to ask yourself (not me) if you would be willing to tolerate his fooling around if you were his wife. Some women -- the wives of attractive or powerful men -- are open-minded about it if their husbands are discreet. The real question is, are you?
Before I roll into this, let's clarify one thing:
Cheating Is Not Monogamy
Many times men have tried to fight me on this, saying that if they have a wife or girlfriend and they cheat on her, it's still a monogamous relationship. Um, no. That's not what monogamy means. If that upsets you, get upset at the dictionary. Monogamy means you're having sex with just her, and she's having sex with just you.
This irrational defensiveness about the definition of monogamy is exactly why I have two versions of monogamy in the glossary.
I have said this to women, and I have said this to men: if you are in a relationship where someone is cheating on you, and you maintain the relationship anyway, you are in an open relationship whether you admit it or not. You're not in a "declared" open relationship, true. But you are not monogamous.
Yes, we could get into an esoteric discussion about "emotional monogamy" or whatever, but you know what I mean. Being emotionally monogamous but sexually nonmonogamous is great. That's called an OLTR. Just remember what that "O" stands for in OLTR. It stands for OPEN, baby.
I find it amusing, even to this day, when a married man (or married woman) comes to me defending monogamy, only to admit under my questioning that either they or their spouse have cheated multiple times during their marriage. The conversation always ends the same way, with me saying, "Thank you for proving my point about long-term monogamy not working."
So please, let's use correct English definitions for words when we speak English.
Women Let Men Cheat...Under Certain Conditions
Alright, now to the point. In the above article, you have a very well known and respected (as much as Dear Abby is "respected") columnist, deeply steeped in Societal Programming, actually coming out publicly saying what I've been saying for many years.
That is, many women will tolerate their husbands fucking women on the side as long as the husbands are discreet about it. She qualifies this by saying "attractive or powerful men", but notice how the woman asking the question didn't say her boyfriend was attractive or powerful.
What Dear Abby was saying is "men of high value" are not monogamous, and their wives know it, and put up with it. They consider it "worth the price" of being married to a high value man. I have demonstrated this in detail with Arnold Schwarzenegger's marriage right here. His wife was perfectly happy to allow him to fuck around until he got the maid pregnant. Only when he became non-discreet did she have a problem.
Bill and Hillary Clinton work the same way. Hillary Clinton, regardless of what you may think of her, is a highly intelligent woman. She's known damn well during her entire marriage to Bill what he was doing in his spare time when she wasn't around. The rumor around Arkansas and Washington DC from people who know them personally, and I believe it, is that Hillary allowed Bill to fuck around all he wanted as long as the side-women were discreet, mature, married women with a lot to lose if word got out about the affair.
Only when he broke the rules of their OLTR marriage and got sexual with a young, dumb intern, and got caught in a very public way, did she get upset with him.
It's not the fucking around on the side that bothers these women. It's being non-discreet that bothers them.
More importantly, this does indeed expand into the normal world of normal women who are not married to male models, rich celebrities, or powerful politicians. MOST women will tolerate you getting a little on the side provided:
1. You start the relationship off correctly.
2. You're discreet.
3. You satisfy her other Disney needs.
Most men are reasonably good at item number three. It's items one and two they constantly screw up on. Thus they end up thinking, incorrectly, that women "won't let them" fuck around.
So they promise monogamy, then cheat (because that's what men do), get caught, and suffer all kinds of drama at best, breakups and divorces at worst.
Tyrese Gibson very bravely said that women should expect men to cheat, and caught a lot of hell for it. He was absolutely right, albeit in an Societal Programming, Alpha Male 1.0 way, which is, get 'monogamous', cheat, and put up with the drama fallout. The Alpha Male 2.0 skips all that lying and deception and simply never gets monogamous in the first place, eventually ending up with an OLTR or high-end MLTR who he really likes, and who has always accepted his nonmonogamy without being lied or bullied into it. Much less work, far superior results.
You need to constantly remember that even women who scream to the rooftops that they would "never have an open relationship" would probably put up with a cheating husband as long as he was a good husband and very discreet. In other words, she would have an open relationship; she simply doesn't like the term "open relationship".
As time goes on, expect to see more of this message seeping out into the mainstream. And yes, this is a good thing, considering long-term monogamy doesn't work. It's about time people recognize alternate systems that work better (or at least, less badly).[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][/vc_row]
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Free&Strong 2014-07-10 20:54:50
Excellent point here BD. Women understand, whether on a fully conscious level or not, that the majority of men, even the ones they're in a "committed" relationship with, want to screw around. And, like you said, as long as those men are good providers and discreet about their extra curricular activities, the women will put up with it. The only reason they freak out when their man's actions are discovered is because of how they will be perceived by society. They won't be viewed as "in control" of their man and will be shamed for not molding him into a good lap dog who bends to her every crack of the whip. But, as you've said, a real Alpha 2.0 would never do that anyways and he will set the stage for how the relationship is going to be from the beginning. I look forward to the day when these types of arrangements are more mainstream and accepted, or at least tolerated with a shrug and a smile. "Boys will be boys" and all that.
Bobby 2014-07-11 04:57:43
Excellent post! I just wanted to add some studies seem to suggest that single women would rather sleep with a man in a relations than a single one!And the contrary exists for women in "so-called monogamous" relationships who are attracted to sexy single men! I have been in both situations and can relate to that!
Bobby 2014-07-11 04:58:48
Sorry meant relationship....(2nd line of my comment up above)
Kathy 2014-07-11 05:04:24
You are right if you are talking about low quality(promiscuous) women. High quality women (women in an intact family who have had a good Christian upbringing) do not want to share their man with another woman. Water seeks its own level.
Sparks 2014-07-11 05:26:32
Typical response from a woman, if it's a behaviour that reflects badly on women then it must be only 'low quality' women that do it. I've heard similar statements from women like 'only bar sluts respond to game' etc. NAWALT is always the default defense.
Kathy 2014-07-11 05:55:18
I had good Christian parents.. Faithfull and loving. I married a good man as a result.( Why would I want to share him??) I trust him implicitly. To know that it's me and only me that he wants and desires, is a huge turn on.. And it's reciprocated.
Nemausus 2014-07-11 06:04:42
Discretion is a powerful tool for the non-monogamous man. Even if you've told a girl that you won't be monogamous and deep down she knows you're the kind of man who has regular success with women, she'll rationalize that you're not seeing anyone else, so long as you don't give her any tangible proof that you're seeing other women. Tidy up your apartment/home before she visits, check for strands of hairs from other girls, discarded bobby pins and change your garbage (used condoms). As long as you don't make it painfully obvious that you're seeing other women, you should be good to go. She will tell herself that she's the only one in your world. I've seen it happen many times. On a related note, when you employ discretionary tactics, don't view it as "sneaking around." It's not. Instead, internalize the belief that you're doing this out of respect, ensuring that you don't humiliate/embarrass/confront your main girl with an unpleasant truth.
Sparks 2014-07-11 06:13:03
@Kathy: I understand that you don't want to share your man and that's fine but that's just yourself you're talking about. Your solipsism means that you think your standards apply to all women but they don't. Many 'high quality' women WILL be prepared to share a man if he is of high enough SMV and is discreet about it. I have seen it happen many times.
FudgeMan 2014-07-11 06:30:49
LoL @ all the guys "arguing" with the supposed woman commenter. First rule of game, watch what woman DO... not what they say. If a woman doesn't believe she can get the same or higher quality man then she will share him with other woman provided he doesn't rub it in her face. The reason most men ( esp ones on game blogs ) don't resonate with this is because they are low value. Woman don't feel they are getting enough benefit to put up with that shit. They reason " I have ten other guys JUST as good as X... why put up with these semi bad feels ". Notice I described it as "semi-bad". Woman don't get nearly as mad or hurt when a guy fucks other woman as a normal man gets when he finds his woman with other men.
Jack Outside the Box 2014-07-11 10:22:07
BD, what is it with all these religious prudes infecting your blog lately? It's time to take out the vacuum cleaner, my man! Do some house cleaning. I recommend the "Jesus zapper 3000!" It gets rid of 99.9 % Jesus mites or your money back!
DonPheromon 2014-07-11 10:49:08
@ Nemausus.. I don't see any reason why a lady who you've told in advance that you don't intend to be monogamous with her should feel upset/embarassed/humiliated/disrespected when she sees "tangible proof" that you are fucking other women like used condoms, hair pins etc....if she is, then your EFA was off even though you supposedly "voiced" your non-exclusivity to her. In my opinion and I'm sure BD would agree with me, discretion even though you are fucking other women is a lot simpler than you make it. For example, not hitting on other women when you are out with that particular girl, not answering phone calls from other girls when with that particular girl etc... Cleaning up apartments, hiding condoms, searching for hair strands etc just because your "girlfriend" is coming over and you are scared she'd see a used condom and start giving you shit is a lot of work to me.... Like I said earlier, it depends on how strong your non-monogamous EFA is....
DonPheromon 2014-07-11 10:51:16
Sorry! EFA *was*..... 🙂
DonPheromon 2014-07-11 11:06:08
"To know that it’s me and only me that he wants and desires, is a huge turn on.." Kathy, you may delude yourself all you want but be rest assured that if your husband is an alright guy with even an average level of libido, this isn't so. Of course, due to his societal programming or "christain upbringing" or fear of the shit you would give him if you found out otherwise, he is doing his best(and obviously succeeding) in making you believe this illusion. But deep down and within him, well, we all know what's up don't we ?....
Jack Outside the Box 2014-07-11 11:51:28
BD, you should also now make an opposite post about women who cheat on their men, or fuck other men within an open relationship. How men need to become more mature and more accepting of female sexuality would be a great post! Men need to grow up and stop being such possessive/territorial pussies who pedestal the vagina!
Dawson Stone 2014-07-11 11:58:00
@Jack Pedestal the vagina…that's priceless. Did you make that up. lol Dawson
Dawson Stone 2014-07-11 12:00:17
Women may accept, tolerate, turn a blind eye to, etc. a guy that sleeps with other women but with the very rare exception, women will resent it and extract a price in one way or another. Don't fool yourselves. Doesn't matter how high value you are. Dawson
Jack Outside the Box 2014-07-11 12:06:52
No. It's a common saying in the manosphere. Why do you ask?
Blackdragon 2014-07-11 14:26:01
High quality women (women in an intact family who have had a good Christian upbringing) do not want to share their man with another woman.I know a married couple, not 15 minutes from my house. Married 9 years, have 5 kids. Extremely religious (that's why they have all the kids, since they "don't believe" in birth control), go to church every Sunday, the works. Very intact family. Both are nice, kind, mellow people, both raised by parents who are both still married... ...and the guy has cheated multiple times, the wife knows it, and she's still there by his side.
BD, what is it with all these religious prudes infecting your blog lately? It’s time to take out the vacuum cleaner, my man! Do some house cleaning. I recommend the “Jesus zapper 3000!” It gets rid of 99.9 % Jesus mites or your money back!Oh no, commenters like this demonstrate Societal Programming better than I ever could. They're actually a very valuable teaching tool on this blog (as long as they don't troll).
BD, you should also now make an opposite post about women who cheat on their men, or fuck other men within an open relationship. How men need to become more mature and more accepting of female sexuality would be a great post! Men need to grow up and stop being such possessive/territorial pussies who pedestal the vagina!I go into excruciating detail about that in my book. It will be out in September. So I'm not sure if I want to make a blog post about specifically that yet, but I'll consider about it. You're absolutely right by the way.
Women may accept, tolerate, turn a blind eye to, etc. a guy that sleeps with other women but with the very rare exception, women will resent it and extract a price in one way or another.In almost 8 years of being nonmonogamous, including serious open relationships that lasted many years, that has not been my experience. The "price" you mention is only demanded if the man handles the relationship incorrectly. Which, to be fair, is usually the case.
Dawson Stone 2014-07-11 23:04:55
@BD My point was to the article. A married woman may tolerate her husband having some on the side but there will be a price. She may shop like its her job (a super rich guy may be fine with that). She may screw the pool boy. She may be passive aggressive in any number of ways. I agree that guys that stay single can do what you do. Married guys (discreet or not) IMO cannot. It may be a price they can tolerate/afford but there is a price.
Blackdragon 2014-07-12 11:04:00
I agree that guys that stay single can do what you do. Married guys (discreet or not) IMO cannot.They can if they establish the nonmonogamy up-front instead of cheating behind her back and then getting caught. That's the key difference. I completely agree with you that husbands who promise monogamy and all kinds of other Disney, then violate all that behind their wives' back, then get caught, are usually in for some serious ongoing shit even if the wife stays. This is why I'm completely against cheating and always have been.
superslaviswife 2014-07-14 00:59:54
The tolerance point is spot on. Whilst I don't believe either of us would show sexual interest in another human (and have been correct so far), were he to openly admit to his interest before doing anything and were we to discuss the possible outcomes and reach consensus, I would have no logical objection to Jon cheating and have said as much since we started dating. That he seems pretty sure he won't and the fact that I also believe he won't doesn't change the fact it wouldn't bother me.
Blackdragon 2014-07-14 12:05:33
were he to openly admit to his interest before doing anything and were we to discuss the possible outcomes and reach consensus, I would have no logical objection to Jon cheating and have said as much since we started datingBingo.
lifeofalovergirl 2014-07-14 14:08:36
Oh, I agree that a lot of women would be okay with just looking the other way, as long as certain conditions are met. Those conditions are that he is the one providing for her and he isn't neglecting his duties at home, sex with his wife or his part in being a dad. The men I know who are rampant cheaters are almost always these guys who are like the ideal man at home. They get away with it because what woman would give that up? As long as they are not allowing the other women to try and step in and take over HER role or embarrassing her in public or anything, yeah she's not going to leave.
It-Began-In-Africa 2014-07-17 05:01:01
Great post as usual BD. In case some men don't get it: NEVER TELL ON PUSSY!
Amber 2014-07-18 14:02:41
Kathy- I'd love a copy of the "assessment" that you use to judge women as low quality (promiscuous). Makes me wonder how much time you spend judging others and avoiding yourself. THIS IS THE MOST REFRESHING BLOG I HAVE READ IN A LONG TIME...WE WOMEN NEED TO WAKE UP AND LIVE THE TRUTH...IT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO TRY AND CHANGE ANYONE AND TOO OFTEN WE THINK ITS OUR JOB TO STRAIGHTEN A MAN OUT...BULLSHIT...YES KATHY I AM CURSING 🙂 We need to focus on ourselves...workout mentally and physically and enjoy the ride and have something amazing to offer in a FB, MLTR or OLTR..playing the victim is sooo stupid and judging is worse. You are right if you are talking about low quality(promiscuous) women. High quality women (women in an intact family who have had a good Christian upbringing) do not want to share their man with another woman. Water seeks its own level.
Blackdragon 2014-07-23 23:27:34
Kathy- I’d love a copy of the “assessment” that you use to judge women as low quality (promiscuous).I'd be curious about that also. But I think I know the answer.
Terrell 2014-08-05 11:40:45
I'm late to the game on this one. People said that I was wrong, but this is why Tiger Woods's ex wife went crazy on him. She knew very well that he was fucking around, but the cost of it was fine because she was able to live a very comfortable life. It's when he got reckless, and his side piece blew up his spot, did she get angry.
Gael Rose 2014-08-08 06:44:19
That's quite true. I know because I live this way. My husband definitely sleeps around, even with our four kids. lifeofalovergirl is right, he provides for his family, he satisfies his wife, he's a great father to his kids, but he's bad at faithfulness.
Blackdragon 2014-08-08 11:03:00
From women commenters:
I agree that a lot of women would be okay with just looking the other way, as long as certain conditions are met. Those conditions are that he is the one providing for her and he isn’t neglecting his duties at home, sex with his wife or his part in being a dad.and
That’s quite true. I know because I live this way. My husband definitely sleeps around, even with our four kids. lifeofalovergirl is right, he provides for his family, he satisfies his wife, he’s a great father to his kids, but he’s bad at faithfulness.Annnnnnd I rest my case.
Throughfare 2015-01-21 08:03:55
The US-centric (and M/W) views of most of the commenters is showing through above. There are other places in the world where BD's (and Pauline Phillip's) scenario is actually mainstream. Anyone who's lived in France or knows couples from France will know that this is the accepted standard for both men and women. If a guy (or girl) is not getting the sex they need in their marriage or "civil union" (PACS) almost all couples accept the frustrated partner going out and having a discrete affair. The expected standard is that one does not kiss & tell (nobody else wants to know) and most of all, the it is kept quiet and discrete from the other spouse. Also, French people accept that political leaders, successful businessmen, and other high-achievers, are also going to be high-drive in the sex department, and in France, it's an open secret that these men have mistresses. In fact, if they didn't, people would start to wonder about them- whether they'd lost their edge. This is why nobody batted an eyelash when Francois Mitterand's mistress was invited to his funeral and was placed next to his wife. LOL- and the fact that Jacques Cousteau had a mistress that shocked puritanical Americans out of their booties when it was revealed in his will- was an open secret in France and didn't faze anybody there. Most of the world is much more realistic about sex and life in general than American are. I wonder if that has to do with the fact that Many of the founding colonies of what would become the United States of America were created by religious extremists fleeing Europe to set up societies based on their various religious views of how society ought to be "regulated"
Blackdragon 2015-01-22 18:21:47
Yes. Much of this ASD and M/W problem is American-centric. Americans are the most sexually prude people in the Western world. And yes, it's because of our religious roots. It's a sad reality that even left-wing Americans are often right-wing Republicans when it comes to the topic of sex, as compared to the rest of the Western world.
proudly anti-theist 2015-09-24 19:31:54
Men aren't faithful because faith doesn't work. Accepting this is LONG overdue. Doubt, on the other hand, DOES. Men, doubt more. Think with your big head, not your little one. Be selective of partners and don't take everything a woman says at face value. You must be able to always consider that she is not a special cupcake and in fact she is deceiving you in some way. Ladies, you can try to please him all you want but don't try to stop him from fulfilling his needs or you will drive him away. If your man is a doubter, trust him to make good decisions. Men are instinctively polygamous (more is better) and women are instinctively hypergamous (better is better). It's human nature for men to spread their seed to as many high quality women as possible and for women to want to secure the highest quality man she can get.
Throughfare 2016-08-15 23:20:23
This is going mainstream now. People might find these articles interesting: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/feb/20/my-husband-has-stopped-cheating-on-me-after-35-years http://nypost.com/2016/04/14/why-more-women-are-letting-their-husbands-cheat/ The articles tacitly agree with you that this pass is only awarded to high SMV men. Beta schlubs just get divorce-raped when they are caught going outside the marriage to scratch the itch, or when they whine too much about their sex-starved relationship.
D 2018-03-21 21:22:19
This is correct. I am a high SMV male, business owner (multiple and a 4th generation entrepreneur) attractive (no balding lift weights, full beard and in excellent shape) On photofeeler.com women score me at a 9.3 with 100+ votes. So I would classify myself as objectively attractive I do two things. I work and I work out. I've been described as an intense person. My wife (she is hot and also works out) whom I love to death is OK with me releasing my sexual "stress" as long as she is never told about it or confronted with it. We have two kids together. I will NOT let my wife sleep with other people and we are both ok with my imposed double standard. I am open about my feelings. She lives in my frame.