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Relationship Problems: What To Do When A Girl Sees You With Another Girl
Over the last few weeks I've received several emails from guys in nonmonogamous relationships who have had the same problem (or concern): "What happens when I'm out with a girl, and I run into another girl I'm seeing / have seen recently?" This kind of thing can occasionally happen, especially if you date within a smaller town or region, or date various women within your social circle. I'm talking about when this happens suddenly and without warning, in a public place, without you planning on it. I have certainly put two women I was seeing "together" for some fun times, but that's a different topic.
-By Caleb Jones
This has only happened to me once, back around 2009. I was having lunch at a suburban sushi restaurant with an MLTR. It was one of those places with the train of sushi going around the seating area. She and I were seated right at the front of the restaurant, with our backs to the front doors.
Without warning, an ex-MLTR I had been seeing about two years prior walked right in. We both turned to see her standing right before us, maybe three feet away. We all looked at each other.
My ex froze, seeing me and my MLTR, a very embarrassed and shocked expression on her face. I smiled big and said, "Hey! Hi!" She nervously answered, "Hi!". I said "How ya doin'?" keeping the big smile. She said, "Great!" Then she nervously walked past us to go sit down with a female friend on the other side of the restaurant who was already there.
The great news was that the ex was very pretty, in great shape, and just happened to be dressed very sexy that day. She really looked fantastic. It was great social proof for my current gal, who was keen to take notice of this as you'll see in a minute.
My ex and her girlfriend were in clear view of both of us for the rest of the meal, making things a little awkward, but it was still no big deal. After a few minutes, my currant woman said, "So, who is that?"
"Someone I know," I said with a sly smile. As usual to solidify my EFA, I let my expression and tone of voice do most of my communication for me, rather than words. Always remember that women communicate like women, not men. Men need things spelled out; women do not.
"That's what I thought," she replied, nodding slowly, just a slight smile on her face.
As always, my nonmonogamous EFA was strong with her from the very first date. So saying "someone I know" was all the subcommunication she needed. She was an MLTR, not a monogamous girlfriend, and she knew it. I was an Alpha, not a beta, and she knew that too. All of this softens the blow.
Eventually, my ex and her friend left, and that was it. No other problems.
A few days later, my current woman remarked about how "hot" my ex looked. Win. I think at some point during that conversation I said that I hadn't seen her in about two years, but frankly, it would have been fine at that point without me saying that.
So let's deal with this "quality problem" us Alphas may have.
1. Don't worry about this happening.
This is number one for a reason. Do NOT worry about this maybe happening "someday". Do NOT make this an excuse about how you should just get a monogamous girlfriend instead of getting FBs, MLTRs, or an OLTR. Do NOT stress out about things that have very low odds of actually occurring.
Hand-wringing about low-odds stuff that might happen is stupid, beta, and childish, and way too many of you guys do this in your relationship lives. Stop it.
The odds of this actually happening to you are quite low, unless your circumstances are very unusual. I've been doing this in a reasonably small city, and in almost eight years and scores of women, this has happened to me a grand total of one time. Even then as you saw, the woman who saw me with another woman was an ex-MLTR, not an active woman.
So stop worrying about this!
2. If it happens, just smile and keep your cool. If you play it like it's no big deal, the women won't assume it's a big deal either.
Just like on a first date, if you're calm and relaxed, she'll be calm and relaxed. If you're nervous and uptight, she'll be nervous and uptight.
If you're with Girl A and bump into Girl B, if you're suddenly flustered or nervous, guess what? Both women will be too. If you try to downplay everything and end the interaction as fast as possible, Girl A is going to get jealous and nosy, and start asking a bunch of questions at best, give you drama at worst.
Not to mention you may also hurt Girl B's feelings, screwing things up with her, or if she's currently not active, killing your chances of her returning back into your life after she gets bored with her current beta or Alpha 1.0 boyfriend. All bad.
But if you're calm, relaxed, happy, and outcome independent about the whole thing, the odds are much higher you won't have any trouble at all.
This is probably the most important item on this list. It's also the biggest element in you getting away with something like this, and experiencing it with no problems or drama.
If you've been treating Girl A like a girlfriend, by violating all the usual open/poly relationship rules (making her cum every time you have sex, only seeing her once a week, not initiating contact often, no fancy dates, etc) and then you bump into Girl B, then hell yes, Girl A is going to be upset. At a bare minimum she's going to be flustered and you'll have some very difficult questions to answer. By treating her like a GF, she now feels that you're "cheating" on her and "disrespecting her". And it will be your fault.
If instead you're treating her like an MLTR, you'll probably have zero problems, just like I did.
Frankly, the majority of problems I see with guys who have MLTRs comes from exactly that: guys treating MLTRs as GFs.
What if you have an OLTR? Then this is even easier. If Girl A is your OLTR then she should have no problem with any of this, since if you've structured the OLTR relationship correctly, you've already verbalized everything you're doing with her. She shouldn't be any more upset or surprised at bumping into a Girl B (or C or D) than you are. If she is, you have chosen the wrong woman to be an OLTR (or you have structured the relationship incorrectly).
4. Remember who this applies to.
You may be thinking, "Okay, this is all fine if the girl we're talking about is Girl A, but if she's Girl B? Then how do you deal with Girl B getting upset?"
The first thing that should be clarified is that Girl A should never be an FB. Ever.
Why? Because you should not be taking FBs "out". If you are, you are completely mismanaging that relationship and you have only yourself to blame. FBs are for sex at home, then they leave. You don't take these women out on dates. That's only for MLTRs and OLTRs.
So if you have three women on rotation, two being FBs and one MLTR, the only risk you have of this is with your one MLTR, not all three women. Yes, it's true your two FBs could be the girls you and your MLTR may run into, but if they're FBs, they shouldn't give a shit, and more importantly, you shouldn't give a shit what they think. They're just FBs.
In other words, give yourself permission to completely not give a shit at all about what any of your FBs think. This in and of itself is very freeing. You should be outcome independent with all of your women of course, MLTRs and OLTR included, but with FBs, you shouldn't worry about this at all. They're just FBs.
The second thing you have to remember is that MLTRs are not allowed if you have an OLTR, and you can only have one OLTR at a time. So if you have an OLTR, the only possible girls you can run into will be FBs. Therefore, you have no reason to worry unless you're doing something very stupid, like lying to your FBs or treating your FBs like MLTRs or GFs.
So in terms of Girl B risk, we're only talking about when have multiple active MLTRs. This is pretty rare for most guys. You're out with an MLTR and you accidentally bump into another active MLTR. Are you getting an idea for how unlikely this all is?
5. Have a mini-game plan for what you will do if this actually happens.
So if you have one MLTR, or one OLTR, you don't need to worry about this. If you have more than one active MLTR, then sit down and think through exactly what you would do or say if you did bump into one of these girls while out with the other.
I can't tell you exactly what to say since I don't know your personality or situation. Just remember to be happy, smiling, uncaring, outcome independent, and non-reactive. Treat the situation like you're out with a close friend and bump into another close friend. Remember, these women are not girlfriends (unless one is your OLTR, but again, she shouldn't care). So don't stress out like they are.
Come up with a line or two you memorize if that would make you feel better. That's fine as long as you don't stress about this. Remember, outcome independence at all times! Speaking of that...
6. Outcome independence dammit!
Stop giving a shit what any of your women think. I'm serious. Stop.
Do you honestly think I give a shit if a Girl A and I bump into a Girl B while we're out somewhere? Nope. Don't care. Even if I was head-over-heels in love with Girl A and she was my top-dog OLTR of the universe. Still don't care.
I would simply laugh it off, just like I did when it happened before. If Girl A gave me any drama whatsoever about it after the fact ("Who the fuck was that girl!?!"), I would give her one warning that I don't do drama and I'm not discussing it, then instantly soft next her ass if she did it again. Then I'd go fuck Girl B. Or Girl C, or D; whichever one would be available that evening.
The fact you're concerned about this at all shows that your outcome independence needs a little more work.
Obviously the best solution is to reduce the odds of this kind of thing ever happening in the first place. Some of you guys out there are literally asking for this kind of thing to happen because of the women you chose to date.
Often I get emails from guys who are trying to set up FBs and/or MLTRs with women who either already know each other or regularly hang out in the same social circles. Um...how smart is that? Unless you're a Thrill of the Hunt guy who "likes a challenge", or an extremely extroverted Alpha Male 1.0 who likes drama, then this is a very, very dumb idea.
I have never created FB or MLTR relationships with women who already know each other, or who already had mutual friends in the same social circle. The women in my relationships enter my life via online game or through other women they know I'm already having sex with. Suzi is an MLTR of mine, and we both know Jennifer. I would never, ever attempt to start a regular FB or MLTR relationship with Jennifer while trying to keep it a secret from everyone else in Suzi's and my social circle, hoping that Suzi will never find out. I can't think of a dumber thing to attempt. Even worse would be also trying to keep the sexual relationship with Suzi a secret at the same time.
Yes, guys actually try crazy shit. You should see my email sometime. Then everything blows up in their faces and they wonder why.
What I would do, and what I have done many times, is get Suzi to invite Jennifer over to my place for some threesome fun. That's beyond the scope of this blog post, but the point here is after having sex with Suzi and Jennifer under those conditions, even if I fucked Jennifer one-on-one a little later, it's no big deal if I run into Jennifer while out with Suzi.
If you want to keep your life simple, stop dating multiple women in your social circle, covertly or otherwise. If you create an FB or MLTR relationship with a girl already in your social circle, you should then consider all other women she knows in your mutual social circle as off-limits (barring that threesome exception above if you have very strong game). Find your new women from all the usual cold approach game sources (night game, daygame, or online game) or from a completely different, independent, and separate social circle (if you have something like that, which most men do not).
8. If you live in a very small town, move.
A few of you guys live in very tiny towns where everyone knows your personal business, and where it's almost guaranteed that if you date multiple women you will either run into them in public or word will "get around".
If you live in a small, remote city of less than 10,000 people or so, I have no easy answers for you. Your only two valid options are to either move to a larger city, or stay where you are but plan on having several long distance FBs/MLTRs who live more than an hour away in larger cities (in that case I hope you can afford lots of gas money). I wish I had better news for you guys. I don't.
9. One crazy option: Never have MLTRs.
One option is to simply never have MLTRs at all. Make every woman you have sex with on a regular basis either an FB, or if you want one, an OLTR. (Just remember that an OLTR should be an MLTR for at least six months first, to make sure she qualifies. That would be the one temporary exception to the rule, but you would still never have more than one "romantically dating" woman in your life.)
This way, the only possible women you would ever run into would be FBs, and we don't care what they think.
I wouldn't choose this option myself since as long as I don't have an OLTR, I really enjoy MLTRs, but for many of you guys this would definitely work.
I hope this helps. If you want more details, you can always get my open relationships ebook. Just remember the most important overall point here is a very strong EFA with all of your women.
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Nosferatu 2014-07-20 05:42:26
Hey BD, great post on a topic I've been meaning to ask you about. I have a slight variation on it and would appreciate your advice. I live in a city of about 4 million people and I also play in a local band. Being a muso and a band leader, a woman seeing me in this role gains me a lot of credit points so I obviously invite a chick Im working on, or dating, to some of my gigs and this is a great help... BUT I (and the band) have public profile…I cannot hide when and where I'm playing…so the chances are very high that in addition to the chick I have specifically invited to the gig, one or both of my MLTRs (I have 2) AND 1 or more chicks I'm working on may turn up to the same gig… so far, I have managed to discourage all but one at a time from turning up at any one gig, but it's only a matter of time before 2 or more turn up and they will see me leave the gig with the one I invited... got any thoughts on how to maintain getting the kudos from these women by them seeing me in this role but at the same time avoiding the problems you mentioned in the blog above?
Sparks 2014-07-20 07:58:46
Nosferatu I have EXACTLY the same problem. My main girl will be celebrating her 20th birthday next weekend and is bringing her friends to see my band. Meanwhile another girl I have been working on (18) will be working behind the bar in the same venue. Not sure what I'm gonna say/do, it's happened before as well with other girls.
Blackdragon 2014-07-20 10:59:31
I love talking to musicians about things like this this because your DHVs are off the charts, while having some very unusual problems. It's like trying to solve a rubic's cube. A few things: - Having a "girl you're working on" see you with an MLTR while you play is GREAT. Don't avoid this; DO IT. Her seeing you on stage and with a hot "girlfriend" (or whatever) is only good news for your social proof for the gal you're working on. - In terms of having multiple MLTRs as public musicians, you may have to bring up "The Talk" much sooner in the process than is normal. You have the added "excuse" of being a musician and thus being in the public eye where lots of women like you. Maybe have a rock-solid EFA for about 4-6 weeks at most then hit her with The Talk. - You could start clamping down on all of your women, and make them adhere to very strict schedules where certain women show up on certain nights, but now we're entering Alpha Male 1.0 territory here and you're bound for drama if you do this. (This is why I would not do this. Scheduling within the poly lifestyle is complicated enough already.) - Frankly, if I woke up in both of your shoes', I would follow the "one MLTR at a time" rule or the "no MLTRs" rule. I would pick my favorite girl, give her The Talk, make her an MLTR or OLTR, then keep all other women as FBs I didn't give a shit about. This would be a huge weight off my shoulders. While this is an optional thing for normal guys, your logistics somewhat necessitate something like this. Great question!
Dawson Stone 2014-07-20 20:29:54
I think there is a BIG difference between having two women you are hooking up with at the same time see each other with you and having one see a girl you hooked up with two years ago. With that said, I agree with most of your advice. For the musicians, the biggest mistake you can make IMO is trying to dodge the situation. You are a musician and it isn't your fault lots of women want you. You like her (whoever you are talking to) and the fact that other women follow you, come to your events, etc. isn't your fault or problem. If (whomever you are trying to close) can't handle that, no worries, you need a woman that is comfortable enough in her own skin to not let this bother her. Dawson
Bellum 2014-07-22 03:02:56
I concur: maintain your frame and leverage the situation as social proof. How would you react if you're on a date with A, run into B who has a legitimite reason for remaining in your proximity, and then A and B start a subtle cold or open hot war?
Dawson Stone 2014-07-22 13:56:30
I would leave A and B and text C to meet back at my place.
Blackdragon 2014-07-22 18:00:03
I think there is a BIG difference between having two women you are hooking up with at the same time see each other with you and having one see a girl you hooked up with two years ago.Agreed. That was part of my point; that I've been doing this for 7-8 years and that's the worst that's ever happened.
How would you react if you’re on a date with A, run into B who has a legitimite reason for remaining in your proximity, and then A and B start a subtle cold or open hot war?Your question doesn't contain enough detail for an answer. I don't know what a "legitimate reason for remaining in your proximity" means. Also, if A or B start any drama with me whatsoever for any reason, they get nexted, period. If they hate each other but don't bother me about it, then I couldn't care less. That's their problem.
PUA Brian Kinney 2014-07-22 19:24:52
Man! I wanted to ask you this many times! This blog have very good advice on how to be attractive to women, few advices about actually picking up but I say with solid knowledge and no doubt that this is the BEST BLOG ABOUT RELATIONSHIP MANAGEMENT EVER!. I'm a Master PUA, I have no problems laying 8's and 9's whenever I want but it is when I have to handle relationships logistics that I have some serious difficulties. It is strange that this great entry have so few comments but I guess that we are just a very small minority with this pleasant issues ha ha. I remember a scene from "Unfaithful" where Diane Lane throws big drama at her lover who always showed lover/non-monoganous/highly pre-selected frame and still she was hitting him when he was "caught up" with another girl even though she was married( ha ha ha female logic). So, any given WD will assume that you're HER boyfriend when she likes you even if you don't promise or show monogamy signs. Now: 1. The problem here is that period before "The talk" and let me tell you that I've had some problems but some guys I know have even been beaten up by angry brothers, cousins and orbiters during that period, threatened about false rape accusations, etc. What can we do with WDs (among them are potential OLTRs) before "The Talk"? 2. Personally my biggest problem is that even one night stands shows up in my place (unannounced, they were "in the neighborhood") because they want to hang out or have sex and is inevitable that they see each other sometimes more than two girls come to my place at the same time, PLEASE BD, any ideas on how to handle this? 3. "Stop dating women within the same social circle." I agree entirely. But wait, you said once: Add every girl you know in facebook, that is kind of the same to me. By the way, I really want to use facebook because I see a tool of huge potential for me but when I opened an account a few years ago I had so many troubles because my girls there felt really ofended and "used" or so they said, because I had slept with 90% of my female contacts. Any ideas of what can I do here? P:S: I know how to configure my facebook privacy settings(they contacted each other because of the comments they read) Thanks a lot you never let me down. PUA Brian Kinney
Blackdragon 2014-07-23 23:23:39
It is strange that this great entry have so few comments but I guess that we are just a very small minority with this pleasant issues ha ha.I think you're right. 🙂
I’ve had some problems but some guys I know have even been beaten up by angry brothers, cousins and orbiters during that period, threatened about false rape accusations, etc. What can we do with WDs (among them are potential OLTRs) before “The Talk”?Never in my entire life of doing this with scores of women have I ever had any problems like that. Not once. So I would say those guys are either being very brazen about what they're doing (to the point of stupidity), or they're choosing very high-drama women to have relationships with. Remember, if a woman even STARTS giving me drama I instantly soft next her, before or after The Talk.
Personally my biggest problem is that even one night stands shows up in my place (unannounced, they were “in the neighborhood”) because they want to hang out or have sex and is inevitable that they see each other sometimes more than two girls come to my place at the same time, PLEASE BD, any ideas on how to handle this?Your EFA needs to be that of a STRONG, BUSY, DISCREET man. Having that kind of vibe will prevent a lot of women from just "dropping by" unannounced. Also you can tell women flat out, "I value my privacy and I'm a busy man. You're welcome to come over whenever you want, but please do me the courtesy of texting me first before you make the drive over. I may not be home, or I may have friends or family over."
I really want to use facebook because I see a tool of huge potential for me but when I opened an account a few years ago I had so many troubles because my girls there felt really ofended and “used” or so they said, because I had slept with 90% of my female contacts. Any ideas of what can I do here?Facebook is a fantastic tool for relationship management, because it gives you a prefect way to contact FBs and MLTRs who are on nexts or LSFNTEs or other "breaks". It also DHVs you when women see other attractive women on there. However, as you've noted, there's a limit to this. If you've literally had sex with 90% of the women on your FB friends list, and you've got piles and piles of women plastered all over your main FB page, then yeah, that's a little too much. You've moved from DHVing to "lack of discretion," and women aren't going to like that. I would consider not adding women to FB in your case unless you don't care about them at all (distant FBs) or it's someone who really knows you very well, for a long time, and post-Talk (high-end MLTR or OLTR who "gets it"). Everyone else, leave off. I used to add every woman to my personal Facebook page but since my notoriety as Blackdragon has increased, about two years ago I had to really cut back on this. These days most of the women I sleep with don't go on Facebook at all (some do, but a lot don't), or if they do, they go on much later in the process (after months of dating as FB or MLTR status). I haven't found this to be a problem. Then again, I have a lot of female FB friends whom I've never slept with (co-workers, friends, women I went to high school with, relatives, in-laws, etc).
PUA Brian Kinney 2014-07-24 12:44:41
Can't thank you enough for your valuable time and QUALITY replies. Thanks a lot master BD.
lifeofalovergirl 2014-07-26 10:41:41
I think your best bet ANY time you see two lovers in the same place, whether they are past or present, is to be friendly and nice to both of them! Of course you want to hug and say hi to the person you just happened to run into but continue to hang out with the person you came with. If you make it awkward, it will be, but it shouldn't be, unless you are lying and cheating. If you ACT guilty, you will seem guilty, whether or not you have actually done anything wrong.
Halfbreed 2014-08-05 16:04:54
Ahh, player problems. 😉 Solid info BD. This is high-level stuff, and can get tricky in practice. I learned all about it the hard way; it's how I lost my last main MLTR: But like you said in point #4, I had no one to blame but myself for the mis-management... Oh well live and learn, good practice.