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My Journey with Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) – Part 3
Today is the next installment in my TRT journal. Before reading this you should read part 1 and part 2 in this series if you have not yet, or else you won't be up to speed on what's going on.
-By Caleb Jones
At about five weeks into the program, I finally felt I had the entire process of injections and blood tests mastered. I switched from injecting in the thigh to injecting in the delt (shoulder). Injecting in the thigh is easier since you have two hands. Before you actually inject, you have to "aspirate," which means you have to pull back on the plunger a little right after you inject to make sure you don't see any blood. This way you won't be injecting into a blood vessel. This process is much easier when you have two hands to work with.
The problem is, injecting in the thigh is painful, and it's very easy to inject in the wrong place for even more pain and even possible bruising. Switching to the delt, it's harder since you only have one hand, but it's worth doing and getting used to, because there is zero pain when you do it. I mean zero (assuming you use high-gauge needles like I do). It's nice.
I can now prep my vials, load my syringes, alcohol swap everything, aspirate, inject, and dispose of everything within 2-3 minutes. At the start of the program it took me 15 minutes or longer to do everything (and I often did it wrong, as I talked about in part 1). So if you're worried that TRT is time consuming, once you get the hang of everything it barely takes any time at all.
Some Good and Bad
At around six weeks on the program, I noticed some interesting changes in my sexual performance. I figured I would suddenly be rock-hard during sex like a teenager, but something a little different happened.
The good news is that my sensitivity skyrocketed. Sex now feels way better than it did before. Even when I wear a condom it feels like I'm wearing nothing. I'm serious. Many times during sex I thought "This feels great...is the condom still on?" Then I had to check it. Sure enough, the condom was still on good and tight.
I'm serious guys, TRT really makes a huge difference in condom-sex. If you use a good condom (after extensive testing I now use Trojan Ecstasy) and place a single drop of lube on the tip of the condom before putting it on (which you should be doing anyway), if you're on TRT it feels like you're wearing nothing. I'm not exaggerating; it feels that good. This might be because I'm also taking HCG, but whatever, it feels great.
Without a condom, sex felt so good that for the first time in my life I had trouble not cumming. I actually had trouble lasting! It was an interesting problem to have. It also bothered me because TRT should not introduce any new problems.
On top of that, there was another problem. I was not getting any harder than before. Sometimes I even felt that I was less hard, even though the sensitivity was increased. The reason for this would be explained in another week, but while it was happening I was a little upset.
Another cool thing though: orgasms are more intense. Holy crap. I mean, I can't describe it. They're fucking fantastic. There was a noticeable positive difference. Wow.
At around 40 days, something very exciting happened at the gym. One of the most difficult exercises for me is the bent-over barbell row. When I started my new weightlifting routine, my back was comparatively weak to the rest of my body, so these damn rows were really difficult and very uncomfortable. I was embarrassed at how little weight I could do on those.
Over time, weight gradually increased, but at around 40 days, suddenly the weight was easy. I bashed out my usual five reps like there was no weight on the bar. I was confused, and thought I had put the incorrect amount of weight. I checked, and no, it was the correct amount. So I slapped on another ten pounds, and did 5 more reps. It was easy. Weight that would have probably thrown out my back a few weeks prior was so easy it was sort of ridiculous.
I put on ten more pounds. Still easy. Put on 10 more. Still easy. What the hell?
For the rest of the day, ALL of my exercises were too easy and I had to add a ton of weight. This continued for the next week or so. Suddenly I was Superman.
I have been lifting weights off and on for 25 years, and I have never, ever experienced anything like this. I have now more stretch marks on my chest and shoulders from bulging new muscle. According to the JEFIT app, I am now in the upper 1% for bench press for men in their 40s. My calf muscles got so big I couldn't fit into my jeans any more and had to buy a few new pairs. I could go on but I think you get the point.
Yet, there was another problem.
Another thing I was noticing at around 4-6 weeks was that I seemed to be ravenously hungry. I'm always hungry anyway, but for some reason it felt like I was hungrier. Weird. I also had a really, really hard time losing any fat. My face looked chubbier in the mirror and my body felt more flabby even though I was gaining more strength and muscle. What the hell? This really pissed me off. As always, I was trying to lose fat, not gain it.
Those of you already on TRT can probably predict what was happening. My blood tests revealed exactly what was going on...
At 45 days, I went in for my first round of blood tests to see how I had improved. I was very excited. Talking to my doctor, he reported the results and gave me a copy of the test.
Next awesome thing. My PSA stayed normal. Very nice. My red blood cell count did increase just a little. The doctor said that even though I probably don't have to, it wouldn't hurt to start donating a pint of blood twice a year to keep my red blood cell counts at optimum levels. No problem; I went to the red cross and donated blood the very next week.
Lastly came the not-so-awesome thing, and the reason for my chubbiness, hunger, and lack of hardness. At the start of TRT, my estrogen (estradiol) levels were normal at 24. Now it was a staggering 50. I had more than doubled my estrogen. Holy shit. No wonder I felt a little weird.
No problem. This is extremely common, and my doctor anticipated this. I already had a bottle of anastrozole ready to go (it reduces estrogen) and immediately popped half a tablet. From now on, I would have to take half a tablet 24 hours after every testosterone injection. He also to told me to take 2 tablets of DIM Plus (a natural supplement I got on Amazon) three times a day for the next two weeks, then once daily from then on.
I did all that, and within 2 weeks I started feeling more awesome, sexual power returned (while keeping the new sensitivity!), the hunger went back to normal, and my face returned to its normal look. As I write this blog post I probably have another two or three weeks to go before I feel 100% optimal, with high healthy T levels, perfectly low healthy estrogen levels, and a fantastic lipid panel. All and all, I was very happy...but the most wonderful thing of all was yet to come... No More Pregnancy Worries!
As I discussed back in part 1, I had a microscope that I used to check my sperm count, since TRT brings it to zero or near-zero. I checked my swimmers at the start of the program and was supposed to check again at five or six weeks. With the Alpha Male 2.0 book and a few other things, I was busy, so I didn't check until nine weeks into the program.
So I "extracted" a sample, put it under the microscope, and looked. I expected to see much less sperm. Shockingly, I found none. I looked and looked, moved the slide around, refocused, and looked some more. Not a single sperm to be found. I figured something was wrong, so I waited a few days and tried again. Once again, no sperm. I spent about 15 minutes looking around to be absolutely sure. Sure enough, no sperm. FUCK YES! Just to be triple sure, I got a hold of some test kits vasectomy patients use to confirm their sperm count is zero and it's safe to have unprotected sex without pregnancy risk. I ran through the test not once, but twice, and on different days, and sure enough, it reported ZERO SPERM COUNT every time.
It is now impossible for me to get a woman pregnant on accident. WAAAAHAHAHAHA! I AM A SEX GOD. If I decide I want kids later, I can go off the TRT for a few weeks, start producing sperm again, make a baby, and go right back on TRT. It really is male birth control.
This benefit alone, at least to me, is worth the entire cost and time of the TRT program. I cannot begin to tell you how happy this makes me. Getting women pregnant and getting stuck with unwanted child support has been my number one fear in my sex life, more so than getting an STD, and now I never need to worry about this again. It also burns my ass that doctors are not telling men this form of male birth control is available. Think about it...what if every man out there knew TRT could be used as male birth control? (Disclaimer: TRT will not reduce sperm count in all men. It depends on the dosages, your body, and many other factors. Just because it did for me doesn't mean it will for you. And for god's sake, use a microscope and vasectomy tests before you start gushing inside women. Don't take your doctor's word for it.)
If more men were aware of this option, don't you think that would prevent a few unwanted, unplanned kids that place burdens on society? (Not that I care about society, but you get my point.)
I'm not saying I'm going to be cumming inside all these women without a condom now, since there are still STD considerations. But it's nice to know that for that one trusted woman, I can go CRAZY and not worry about this. To be 100% sure, I'm still going to regularly check my sperm counts via microscope and vasectomy tests; maybe once every three months or so.
That's it for now. I'll be updating you again on my progress in a few weeks!
Now listen god dammit: Please read part 1 and part 2 in this series before you ask any questions or make any points in the comments, since most questions men have tend to be answered in prior installments in this series. And again, I will repeat yet again that I will be ignoring any comments from fitness nerds who say or imply that I’m doing this all wrong and should radically change what I’m doing, since I’ve put a lot of research into all of this and am operating under the close supervision of a doctor. Yeah, yeah, you're right and everyone else, including all the doctors and fitness experts are wrong. Got it.
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Netbug 2014-12-11 08:12:18
Sounds pretty awesome. Any issues with acne?
Alejandro 2014-12-11 09:50:41
Questions: What happens if you miss one or two doses? Is it very bad? Imagine you have to go to another country for three months and lose your luggage. For some reason, you can't buy it there. How fucked up are you? Would you feel very bad because of the low testosterone or even get sick? If for some reason you were to stop taking it and your testosterone drops, how long would it normally take for your body to go back to the testosterone levels it had before you started? I know it probably depends on many things but are we talking about weeks months or even years? thanks
Blackdragon 2014-12-11 12:04:41
Any issues with acne?Nope.
What happens if you miss one or two doses? Is it very bad?Haha. Your posts makes it sound like I'm doing a drug, like heroin. I'm not doing drugs, I'm replacing the testosterone I used to have in my body a few years ago. If I miss doses for a week or two, nothing happens and I wouldn't even notice a difference. It takes many, many weeks to raise your testosterone levels, and it takes many, many weeks to lower them if you went off TRT. If I went off it for several months my body would simply revert back to its prior T levels, and I would be back to "normal." I wouldn't get "sick."
Sachmo 2014-12-11 13:01:47
In your research did you uncover any potential side effects of TRT? I've read about increased risk of blood clots (and possibly stroke) due to enlarged blood cells... have you noticed anything like this regarding blood viscosity?
Blackdragon 2014-12-11 13:20:18
In your research did you uncover any potential side effects of TRT?Yes. Four: possible increase in estrogen (which I addressed in the post above), possible increase in PSA (which didn't happen to me), possible urination problems (which didn't happen to me), and possible increase in red blood cell count (which I addressed in the post above).
I’ve read about increased risk of blood clots (and possibly stroke) due to enlarged blood cells… have you noticed anything like this regarding blood viscosity?I addressed that in the above post. My red blood cell count increased slightly. My hemotocrit levels should be between 38.5% and 50%, and they were a little high at 51.2%. To fix this, you just go donate a pint of blood to get rid of excess red blood cells. Since it takes the body six months to create new red blood cells, you donate blood twice a year. I will now donate a pint of blood once in December and once in June. Problem solved.
New Hombre 2014-12-11 14:06:00
I started TRT two weeks ago and reading your third post on it is very encouraging. You're right on - once you get the hang of it, it's not hard at all. And there are new testosterone compounds coming out with a much longer half life, so in the future injections will only have to be done every couple months or longer. I think my doc is dosing me a little low - 50 mg testosterone cypionate twice a week and no HCG yet. He did put me on the Arimidex right out the gates to keep the estrogen down. It's a shame TRT for men isn't embraced by society. It could save fortunes in medical care for older men and be a big boon to the economy as older men would be able to work/contribute to society longer. Appreciate you sharing this journey.
Kurt 2014-12-11 14:27:37
" If I went off it for several months my body would simply revert back to its prior T levels, and I would be back to “normal.” I wouldn’t get “sick.” This is not entirely true. If your HPTA (hormonal feedback pathway that communicates between the testes and the hypothalamus and pituitary glands) is good and shut down for a long time, it may not wake up very quickly, or at all if you are an older guy like we are. Especially if you don't have post-cycle therapy drugs on hand to kick your system into gear again. The only way you will know for sure is if you try it sometime. So, the potential is there for you to have your T levels crash down to just about nothing and leave you quite miserable and unhealthy until you get back on TRT. Fortunately, once this starts happening it will be pretty easy to get any doctor to prescribe you the necessary meds once you explain what is going on. Just don't end up in a Turkish prison, OK?
Blackdragon 2014-12-11 15:39:56
there are new testosterone compounds coming out with a much longer half life, so in the future injections will only have to be done every couple months or longer.Yes! I'm very excited about the future. TRT is the worst it will ever be right now. Over time it will get easier, cheaper, and with less possible side effects to monitor. Can't wait!
If your HPTA (hormonal feedback pathway that communicates between the testes and the hypothalamus and pituitary glands) is good and shut down for a long time, it may not wake up very quickly, or at all if you are an older guy like we are.That's only if you're not taking HCG which maintains your natural T production, which I am. My HPTA is still functioning and my original 584 natural testosterone is still "there" and still being produced. The only primary difference is that my FSH levels have gone down which is why my sperm count is now zero (praise Jesus!). My LH, for example, is unaffected due to the HCG. (Though I'm no expert and I could be wrong; I have not tested my LH levels lately.) With HCG in the mix, the external testosterone I'm taking is stacking, not replacing. I agree what you're saying might be an issue if you did TRT with absolutely no HCG or anything similar, or if you were old/unhealthy to begin with.
DM 2014-12-11 17:03:04
BD, great post. For the guy who is interested in TRT, hasn't had kids yet but wishes to at a later date, have you found any negative side effects regarding this / sperm counts returning to normal in your research?
Jay 2014-12-11 18:52:34
Do your mltrs and FBs know your identity as black dragon? If they do how will that effect your chances sleeping with them?
Sixtycanine 2014-12-11 21:26:59
BD, glad to hear your good report! You are spot on with the hematocrit advice, donating is an easy fix and a good deed (whole blood donation only! don't let the blood bank hit you up for Double RBC, or platelets or anything else - it may sound good but it won't help in lowering the hematocrit enough with the required donation frequency wait time). Word of caution for the brothers who are also battling hair loss though, if you are taking finesteride you can't donate. Also glad to hear you got the estrogen aromatization under control. It's normal once the excess testosterone starts to build up. From time to time it's a good idea to ween off and allow your receptors to clear. There are various protocols on how to do it, but keep that notion in your back pocket in the event you want to later down the road. I've successfully come off after HEAVY use for 1.5+ years and got back to the mid 700's. For now enjoy the ride brother.
Blackdragon 2014-12-11 22:53:55
For the guy who is interested in TRT, hasn’t had kids yet but wishes to at a later date, have you found any negative side effects regarding this / sperm counts returning to normal in your research?As I said in my Alpha Male 2.0 book, I would freeze my sperm. It costs less than $1000 to do it, and perfectly healthy children have been born from sperm frozen for 30 years, so it works. That way, no matter what happens to your body, you will be assured that you can always have kids later. In terms of specifics on how long it takes to get your sperm production back after TRT, possible problems, etc, I don't have any specific data other than "in a few months," and again, this assumes you're doing TRT correctly, are in good health to begin with, and not super old. But again, if I was under 40, had no kids, wanted kids later, and wanted to go on TRT, I'd freeze my sperm. Problem solved.
Do your mltrs and FBs know your identity as black dragon? If they do how will that effect your chances sleeping with them?The fuck? That's a little off-topic dude, and I've answered that question a thousand times. The answer, for the thousandth time, is yes, and I've never lost an FB or MLTR from them reading this blog or anything else I've written as Blackdragon. Now please stay on topic.
From time to time it’s a good idea to ween off and allow your receptors to clear. There are various protocols on how to do it, but keep that notion in your back pocket in the event you want to later down the road. I’ve successfully come off after HEAVY use for 1.5+ years and got back to the mid 700’s.That's very interesting. Could you provide more specific information on how to do it and how often? The other readers (and I) would be interested I'm sure.
Kurt 2014-12-12 10:12:40
BD, yeah, I take HCG too, but in our hypothetical 'run out of TRT meds' situation, which I agree is a little bit of a stretch provided we take reasonable precautions when we travel, you will be out of both, and the HCG will leave your system quite soon (days) while the testosterone esters will continue to feed your body testosterone for a few weeks, as you have pointed out. So the end result is that you will come off the T without HCG to keep your balls going. Thank goodness the USA is one of the very few countries where testosterone possession is actually illegal without a prescription. As long as you don't run out of TRT meds in Australia or the USA you will probably have no trouble replacing your medications via over-the-counter purchase in most parts of the world.
Kurt 2014-12-12 11:30:10
Also, I encourage you to reconsider intramuscular injection vs. subcutaneous. At the small volumes of oil we inject, subcutaneous injections are no big deal and perfectly safe. Safer, in fact, than IM. Why do I bring this up again? Well, I've thought about this and this is how I see it: While, we will get good at self-injection and it's pretty simple, we will always be doing it in a somewhat higher risk situation than in a doctor's office with a professional. We will also be injecting ourselves for the rest of our lives. If I'm injecting 2X/week for the rest of my life (say another 40 years) that's over 4,000 injections. While the risk of abscess on any one injection is low, multiply by the number of injections you will do and you can see that your lifetime risk of an abscess is not nothing. So, the question for me becomes not will I get an abscess, but where would I rather have it if I do get it? Clearly I would rather have it in my cellulite than inside a muscle. Also, poking holes in my muscles over 4000 times, killing irreplaceable muscle cells each time, does not seem like a good idea to me.
Sixtycanine 2014-12-12 14:32:16
TRT gets billed as "permanent" or that you will have to stay on it for good. This isn't true. You can raise your own natural levels through proper diet and exercise but it takes longer, requires a lot of discipline and is arduous business in a modern context. TRT is much more efficient but the downside as you know is HPTA suppression which if left unchecked would lead to the dependence alluded to by everyone. If you wanted to "recover" and went cold turkey on TRT you would suffer a crash as the HPTA is shut down and endogenous production has ceased for the most part. Hormonal imbalance would result you'd feel like shit (possible short term sexual dysfunction, etc.) once the last vestiges of the ester cleared your system (cypionate or enanthate ester half life is 8-10 days) probably in about 3-4 weeks total it would all be gone. (I'm assuming you know this already BD but since you asked me to share to the group at large). Supplementing with HCG keeps your natural test pump primed. Your nuts will not atrophy as much, or at all and depending on the person you can still have sperm production. Like I mentioned in a reply to Part 2 I knocked my wife up this past May, and I was on roughly 800 mg/wk of test along with 400 mg/wk of nandrolone. I do what is called blast and cruise where the cruise is test at TRT levels (which i consider 150-200 mg/wk). I'd been blasting and cruising for over 1.5 years straight with no breaks. I do it because I love to lift, I love to fuck like an 18 year old, and I love being a physical specimen in middle age as compared to my peers. Law of diminishing returns eventually kicks in and you plateau, build tolerance, or whatever you want to call it. When I started TRT my levels were like 280's and I was 36. Life style, job stress, working 80-100 hrs a week, not eating right and sleeping too little and poorly all contributed to that level. At the end of June I decided to come off for a couple of months and clear my system. I had been taking about 0.75 iu's of HCG weekly for about 6 months of the last 1.5 yrs. I didn't like the feeling of my nuts losing size nor a lessening of my ejaculatory loads which was the main reason I started HCG. With HCG my nuts were full size, sensitivity during sex was vastly improved, and I was, unbeknownst to me, very potent and loads were large. Like I said i cycled off and started post cycle therapy (PCT). Lot of info on the web on it, and info you will likely not get from a doc. Look for PCT on the underground bodybuilding boards. In short the protocol I followed was an a slightly increased "jump start" dosage of HCG and clomaphine citrate (clomid). This is an anti-estrogenic breast cancer drug whose off label use is stimulating the HPTA in males. Dosages aren't really locked in stone. I took a boost of 2000 iu's HCG after my last dose of test then stopped HCG. Week 1: 150mg/day Clomid. Week 2: 100mg/day Clomid, Week 3&4: 50mg/day Clomid. Words of warning you can become desensitized to HCG if you dose too high or too often. It in itself is suppressive of the HPTA under normal conditions. During TRT it keeps the pump primed as I mentioned but if you are coming off do not continue to use. Usually good rule of thumb for cycles is spend as much time off as on, but that is geared more towards 8-10 week cycles. I had my T levels checked at 6 weeks following last test shot (2 weeks after PCT ended) levels were still hovering in mid 300's and I was disappointed, friend told me to be patient and check in another 2 weeks and bam I was rocking in the 700's natural. The blast/cruise had leaned me out a great deal and I was still strong as hell. I continued to lift for the duration. of PCT with emphasis on Squatting, Deadlifting and Bench Press as those three compound movements are the most stimulative of natural test. Want high natty levels you need muscular thighs and hamstrings. Sorry for the writing and epic but I wanted to be thorough. If I didn't touch on something you specifically want to know just hit me up.
Sixtycanine 2014-12-12 14:37:45
Correction to the above: 7.5 iu's not 0.75 iu's (a regular typo for me with iu's)
Blackdragon 2014-12-12 15:25:09
in our hypothetical ‘run out of TRT meds’ situation, which I agree is a little bit of a stretch provided we take reasonable precautions when we travel, you will be out of both, and the HCG will leave your system quite soon (days) while the testosterone esters will continue to feed your body testosterone for a few weeks, as you have pointed out. So the end result is that you will come off the T without HCG to keep your balls going.Correct, which means if you're on TRT with HCG for 5 years, then suddenly go cold turkey, your body will react as if it was on TRT for just a few weeks, not 5 years. Under those condistions, to suggest that something horrible might go wrong is so damn unlikely it's well below the 2% threshold for the 2% rule and not worth worrying about. If you go off TRT with HCG you will be fine (provided again, you're in good health and not super old). Like you, I plan on being on TRT (or its future equivalent) forever.
Also, I encourage you to reconsider intramuscular injection vs. subcutaneous. At the small volumes of oil we inject, subcutaneous injections are no big deal and perfectly safe.I'm already doing subcutaneous. My needles are 1/2 inch long and I don't press down hard on the skin at all. I'm not hitting the delt muscle (or at least don't think so). My doctor agrees with your points by the way; they make sense to me as well.
I didn’t like the feeling of my nuts losing size nor a lessening of my ejaculatory loads which was the main reason I started HCG. With HCG my nuts were full size, sensitivity during sex was vastly improved, and I was, unbeknownst to me, very potent and loads were large.Are you saying your balls shrank, but when you added HCG they grew again? That's cool. I have really big balls (literally) so I actually wouldn't mind if they shrank a little. 🙂
Look for PCT on the underground bodybuilding boards. In short the protocol I followed was an a slightly increased “jump start” dosage of HCG and clomaphine citrate (clomid).Going off and back on TRT like you did sounds pretty complicated and troublesome. I don't see the point, barring the points you made about the problems you were having because you weren't taking HCG. I am, so I'm not concerned.
Sixtycanine 2014-12-12 17:16:18
Yeah, my nuts are on the large side as well. Once had a chick tell me she could make a hell of an omelette with em LOL. Just means they're built with promiscuity in mind 😉 Exogenous test will shut down your HPTA and that will cause them to shrink (atrophy). The degree will vary by individual and how much test you take. If you look at the competition bodybuilders when they're on stage they look like they don't have nuts at all. HCG will fluff them back up, which also bears into load size, orgasm strength etc. It really sucks to beat up the vajay-jay like an industrial strength jack hammer and then climax like a small forest critter. Very...anti-climatic... In that respect HCG is the only way to go. Not to mention PCT is much harder if you don't use periodic HCG. FWIW, PCT is super simple. Its basically taking 2-3 pills a day for a week and tapering that down over the remaining 3 weeks. If you want to reboot to knock up some young hottie down the road just keep that in mind. The drug, Clomid, is readily and legally available all over the internet. It's also the same drug that fertility clinics will prescribe to men with low sperm count and charge them thousands of dollars for...only thing is you can get it yourself for less than fifty.
The International 2014-12-15 13:59:33
Same age here, with similar background and profile as you. As to possible side effects, would there be an increased risk of prostate cancer?
Dennis 2014-12-15 15:15:53
I've been on TRT for about 5 years. For the first four years I was on transdermal T which I received for a compounding pharmacy, Life Extension Pharmacy. I rubbed the compound on my shoulder or forearms every day after my shower. This keep my T in the low 700 range. My DHT blood test was at 3 times the top limit. However I didn't notice any more hair loss than before TRT nor any other effect. I used arimidex 0.25mg once a week to keep my E2 down. In the last year I switched to subq injections. I inject in my butt fat with a 29 gauge 1/2" nettle twice a week. I started at 50mg twice a week=100mg/week. My T test was at 1300. I dropped down to 40mg twice a week=80mg/week and my T test was in the 900-1000 range. I still take 0.25 arimidex once a week and my E2 is in the 20s range. With subq my DHT has dropped into mid range.
Blackdragon 2014-12-16 14:34:20
This keep my T in the low 700 range.That's pretty cool that the transdermal got it up to 700. I didn't realize those cremes were that effective.
I still take 0.25 arimidex once a week and my E2 is in the 20s range.I can't wait until my E2 is back down to 20s. Probably in another week or two. Thanks for the info.
Same age here, with similar background and profile as you. As to possible side effects, would there be an increased risk of prostate cancer?It can increase PSA but its rare, and if it happens, you'll know within 45 days if you're working with a doctor, and they can adjust to program to compensate so you'll be safe. (And if for some bizarre reason they can't, you simply go off TRT.) This "TRT causes prostate cancer" stuff is from very old experiments they ran way back in the 1970s. They took a bunch of old men and jacked up their T levels to 1500-2000, and surprise, surprise, many of them got sick. It's a completely different process now and it doesn't happen any more.
Le Petite Princess 2014-12-16 21:45:56
Mr Blackdragon, as you can see I really love your blog but now I have a question My question is totally irrelevant to this article but I didn't have time to search around your blog (I'm at work and I'm female, illogical in where I place my questions, right? (I'm trying to be funny and sometimes I suck at it) How would I find a man who has a very big appetite for sex without being too slutty finding out?
Chad 2014-12-22 16:24:55
Great posts! That's awesome that your sperm count is zero. I have been on TRT (similar dosage, except I take the anti E regularly) for a year, and still have a sperm count within the normal range. Did your doctor tell you about this side-benefit? It appears that it's YMMV.
Blackdragon 2015-01-04 17:07:57
Did your doctor tell you about this side-benefit?I asked him about it before we began, yes. But I brought it to his attention, not the other way around.
It appears that it’s YMMVTrue, because it depends on your body, your age, the dosage, the amount of HCG you're taking (or not taking), and a few other things. Honestly I couldn't give you more information. Now that I'm on anti E, I'm going to re-test my sperm count in every way possible, just to make sure that a decrease in E doesn't somehow bring the spermies back.
Rob 2015-02-04 09:10:56
Have you checked your E2 levels after adding in the Adex? And I was a little puzzled about your claim that you can buy Test C from Costco without a prescription. I'm pretty sure that its a schedule 3 drug, and a script is required, at least in the USA.
Blackdragon 2015-02-04 09:53:12
Have you checked your E2 levels after adding in the Adex?Not taking Armidex. Taking Anastrozole. (I realize it's more or less the same thing but less side effects have been reported with the latter. Some difference in how they manufacture it or something.) But Yes. Just last week. E2 has dropped down to 19. Very happy. I'm also taking daily DIM+.
And I was a little puzzled about your claim that you can buy Test C from Costco without a prescription. I’m pretty sure that its a schedule 3 drug, and a script is required, at least in the USA.I'm a little confused about that myself, but the little old lady at my local Costco pharmacy swore to me up and down that I did not need a prescription to purchase the vial of Test Cyp she had in her hand. I didn't actually do it, I was just there to check because I had heard that Costco rumor myself and wanted to confirm it (and get pricing). I can't give you any more detail than that.
firstname.lastname@example.org 2015-02-12 14:46:10
I've been on continuous testosterone injections for 6 years now.100 MG once a week.I just started taking hcg 250mg twice a week.my question...where's the best pace to buy hcg
Blackdragon 2015-02-12 17:48:17
where’s the best pace to buy hcgJust Google around, though you probably need a prescription from a doctor if you live in the US (not sure about that). I currently purchase it directly from my doctor. $60 per vial which lasts me about 30 days. I'm sure I could get it cheaper if I really shopped around, and I will once I get the hang of everything.
Laurel 2015-12-30 13:42:15
Just FYI - the sperm count may NEVER come back after stopping TRT. If you want to have kids later, I would stop it, make sure it's come back (takes several months if it does) and then bank some. My husband was only on TRT for a couple months over a YEAR ago and his sperm count NEVER came back. Even now he still has ZERO swimmers. Best to never take it at all if you ever want kids. Only get on it once you know you're never going to have any or you're all done.
Blackdragon 2015-12-30 14:00:11
Just FYI – the sperm count may NEVER come back after stopping TRT. If you want to have kids later, I would stop it, make sure it’s come back (takes several months if it does) and then bank some.Correct.
My husband was only on TRT for a couple months over a YEAR ago and his sperm count NEVER came back. Even now he still has ZERO swimmers.Man, he's lucky. I wish I had zero. I still have plenty (though not enough to actually impregnate anyone via sex). Another option is to use artificial insemination. If you have even one swimmer and have $300-$600, it's no problem.
JQ 2016-06-20 18:48:36
Hey man how's it going? Question are you still on .5mg Adex twiceba week or did u eventually have to lower your dose? Still on same protocol? Thanks man. Great blog.
Blackdragon 2016-06-20 19:20:29
Same protocol. One half-tablet of Anastrozole (they're super tiny) twice per week, 24 hours after the T shot. My estradiol is at 18, just checked last week. Total T is at 966. 🙂
JQ 2016-06-20 20:20:34
Awesome man. I'm also running 100mg twice a week. On .25mg Adex 24 hours after each injection my e2 came back 17 on a standard test. So a little too low. I'm now trying .125mg twice a week but cutting those tabs into eighths is an inexact science.
JQ 2016-06-28 08:03:14
Do you know if your e2 reading was from the sensitive test or the standard test?
Blackdragon 2016-06-28 11:49:00
It was a standard estradiol test, whatever that is.
JQ 2016-06-28 11:56:25
Thanks bro. A lot of people make this big distinction between standard and sensitive Estradoil testing. But I like your style. On 100mg twice a week and .25mg Adex 24 hours after injection my e2 came back 17. Everyone started bugging out... "That's too low! That's not even sensitive test!" So I stopped the Adex and it's been tough ever since.
Hardhead 2016-08-20 19:33:09
Anyone who thinks coming off testosterone,anastrozole, and hcg is easy just because you are told that by someone who has never done it better think twice. Problems like prostate issues can arise and force you to stop. Just because it doesn't cause cancer doesn't mean you may not have to pee every hour night and day from enlarged prostate under doctors care or not. My hemotocrit level was 51.8 which is already too high for labcor standards which is anything over 51. If you take 150 mg weekly or more giving blood twice a year probably won't keep it in range.Especially if using hcg lowering testosterone dosage will work but then everything has to be adjusted. Think quitting is easy? It can take months to get all your hormones back to normal working together and the worst part is waiting for your central nervous system to normalize.Not cutting you down BD but I've been there done that and your testosterone levels may be lower than baseline and sometimes way lower even with pct.You don't realize how important your cns is.Quitting any drugs isn't easy but stopping test made me feel bad for at least 6months both times. nothing is forever the hammer will fall eventually for most people and one day you'll be one of those old people you're talking about if you live that long. Enjoy it while you can.
DW 2016-08-21 17:54:26
First awesome thing. At the start of the program, my total testosterone was 584. It was now 922(!) with free testosterone at 243. My T levels are now equivalent to an 18 year-old. Fuck yeah!My understanding is it's the free test that matters (the amount that is available for the body to use, rather than the total T). Assuming you are measuring in pmol/L, while a total T of 922 is great, a free T of 243 is quite low (the natural range for a 40 year old (depending on the lab) is 170 - 670). I'm aiming for a free T of around the 600 mark putting me in the top few % of the natural range (my baseline was ~300-350, average to slightly below average).
Not taking Armidex. Taking Anastrozole.I believe they are the same thing, Armidex being the brand name for the drug Anastrozole (like Propecia is to Finasteride) - https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a696018.html#brand-name-1 How do you measure E2? In Australia we measure it in pmol/L (picomoles per litre). The 'healthy range' according to the pathology lab is 'under 160', my HRT doctor says the ideal is 100 (which was my base level before I started). Estrogen is required for healthy function of heart and so forth. Seems like they use another measure in America, as people talking about a Oestradiol / Estradiol / E2 (which I believe are all synonymous but I'm not 100% sure on that) reading in the 20's is great, but in pmol/L that would be too low.
Blackdragon 2016-08-22 12:16:24
Anyone who thinks coming off testosterone,anastrozole, and hcg is easy just because you are told that by someone who has never done it better think twice.I've spoken with literally scores of men who have been on TRT, including a few who stopped, as well as many doctors, and I have never heard your particular horror story. I appreciate that you had a real problem getting off TRT, and I also know that getting off TRT is not something you just do instantly and be fine. At the same time, everyone's body is different, and just because you had a hard time with it doesn't mean most other men will too. For the record, I will be on TRT my entire life. I will never get off of it (unless they invent something better, which I'm sure they will).
My understanding is it’s the free test that mattersCorrect. I addressed that in Part 5 here.
Hardhead 2016-08-24 18:08:05
i appreciate your patience with my comment black dragon. If you check out a site called stopping TRT what to expect unfortunately you will hear many horror stories of people stopping TRT. I sincerely hope you never have to stop and wish you all the luck on your testosterone journey. I know I only mentioned my TRT experience but I have many years of experience with steroids and that one time I felt the same way you do now. However forever really is a long time bro . Thanks for your reply to my post I appreciate it. I know we are all different but you never know until you stopped how you will handle it. I think more people have bigger problems than you think.
John 2017-03-09 09:11:53
Be great if you did another update on your TRT experience. I am strongly considering starting now that I am 45 and levels are lower end of the range. Doing anything different? Do you take HCG?
Blackdragon 2017-03-09 11:20:06
Be great if you did another update on your TRT experience.I did. https://blackdragonblog.com/2015/02/12/journey-testosterone-replacement-therapy-trt-part-4/ https://blackdragonblog.com/2015/10/05/my-journey-with-testosterone-replacement-therapy-trt-part-5/ https://blackdragonblog.com/2017/02/02/qa-various-updates-trt-sampson-etc/
John 2017-10-23 09:02:12
2 different tests have shown that 250-500iu HCG every other day will maintain same if not better sperm than prior to starting TRT. Everything I have read states that HCG will keep Sperm count as well. In your blog you state that your sperm count is Zero even though you are on TRT and HCG. Seems strange that you are outside of the norm that far, without any Sperm at all. Did you have a good Sperm count prior to using and how much HCG do you take weekly?
Adam 2019-06-25 15:57:45
hey BD, just stumbled across your blog while doing some research. and glad to have found you. so I started TRT & my FNP at the clinic keeps recommending I start DIM. he thinks it might help me get the best effects of all worlds. my estradiol numbers arent too high, but obviously we would all prefer the lower in the healthy range it is (just like you targetting around 21-22 or so, I was at 28 when I started & it bumped upto 35 when I took my first test. now while researching DIM - I'm finding a lot of conflicting info. especially about doses & "enhanced" forumulas whereby these random companies on amazon add a bunch of other stuff to DIM. apologize if you've already covered this in the next few parts (havent read part 4, 5 etc yet). so from what I'm reading online, higher doses of DIM actually becoming T blockers rather than E blockers that they are at lower doses, esp for men & esp for men on TRT. I'm reading guys on TRT shouldnt take more than 75mg/day. however, some recommend doing 150-300mg/a day. my FNP suggested I start with 600mg/day which seems crazy. he was personally doing 1200mg & it was bad news bears for him. so he quit that completely & just went on prescription estro blockers/aromatize inhibitors. so is something like this "good" fwiw https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IDRJ02A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3RRP8OLKFWKZU&psc=1 ... its a bit of a lower dose + has a ton of other things that look useful. now I have no idea if the amounts are valid - they could just be dusting, no FDA tests to back em up. and the one you linked also seems to be decent esp since you're doing 200mg/day. however I'm not sure if the Vit E helps. some folks recommend Vit D along with DIM etc. whereas others say DIM is BS & doesnt work, so save your money. as you can imagine this topic is very very confusing the more I research. so I'd love to hear some straight talk from a no-bullshit straight shooter. thanks!