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When To Spend Money On Women In A Relationship
A while back I discussed when to spend money on women during the pre-sex dating phase. Today I'll discuss when it's a good idea, and bad idea, to spend money on women while in an ongoing relationship. First, let's cover the two extremes most common in society, neither of which work if you want harmonious, happy, long-term, low-drama relationships with women.
-By Caleb Jones
Hopefully I don't need to outline here why this is a terrible idea. Treating a woman this way invites drama, betaization, demands, and all kinds of other things you don't want. Treating a woman this way also tends to speed up the end of the relationship, since women tend to get bored with a boyfriend to the degree to which he kisses her ass. If you keep spending money on your monogamous girlfriend, don't be surprised when she suddenly goes serial mono on you (which means she'll dump your ass).
The opposite extreme is less common but does happen. This is when a stronger man is in a relationship with a very submissive woman, and over time she starts paying for him in just about every way. I've seen many relationships over the years where the woman goes and works and the guy sits at home, smokes weed, and watches TV all day.
Sound awesome? Well, there's a catch, and that is that these women are never very attractive. These women are almost always overweight and/or ugly. At best she'll be what most men would consider a seven. Frankly, if she's that high on the attractiveness scale, that guy's days are numbered because soon she she's going to dump his ass and upgrade to a new guy who's less of a freeloader.
Is it possible to be in a relationship with a woman who is always paying for everything 100% of the time and is super hot? Oh yes. If your Alpha frame is rock-solid it's quite doable. I've done it. But don't expect these relationships to last that way for very long. As always, hot women always know that you're replaceable, and thus know they don't have to up with this crap forever. So if you don't mind having lots of short (as in under 6-12 months or so) relationships like this, then go for it. But if you want something to last longer, you're going to have to get a little more strategic.
Now let's discuss how and when to correctly spend money within the three open/poly relationship types: FBs, MLTRs and an OLTR. FBs
It should go without saying, I hope, that you should never spend money on FBs. Never, ever, ever. Once you spend the minimum you need to spend on the first few dates and start having sex with her on a regular basis, you should never spend money on an FB at all, ever. If she doesn't like it, she's more than welcome to leave. (But she won't if you're following all the usual correct techniques.)
Are there some exceptions to this? Sure. Normal gas/bus/subway transportation costs are okay. If you need to go to her place or transport her to yours, that's fine as long as you aren't sending limousines to pick her up. You older guys with higher incomes are welcome to use things like taxis and Uber, but I don't; I just don't want to send that kind of message to a woman I know will never be anything more than an FB. Have one of her girlfriends or needy guy orbiters to drive her over; much better.
The world also isn't going to end if, for example, while she's with you on the way to your place to have sex you stop off at a Taco Bell drive thru and spend $4 to get her a burrito. I've done kind of thing once or twice with some FBs, and as long as it doesn't happen very often and the rest of your relationship frame and EFA is rock-solid, there's no big problem with this.
What you don't want to do is take an FB out and buy her dinner. No, no, no! This is wildly incongruent, will send all the wrong messages to her, and is guaranteed, yes guaranteed to cause trouble with her down the road.
I don't agree with that at all, Blackdragon. I like spending money on people. I buy dinner for my guy buddies all the time. I enjoy doing it and I can afford it. I do it for them so it's fine if I do it for my FBs. That's great, but you aren't acknowledging that you're not having sex with your guy buddies and your guy buddies aren't women. If you buy dinner for one of your buds, it's not going to change the dynamic of your friendship at all. He's not going to start consciously or subconsciously changing the nature of your relationship, or start asking himself all kinds of emotional internal questions about "where he stands" in your relationship to him.
A female FB will do all of these things. You're not comparing apples to apples. I've bought a dinner or two for one of my guy buddies before, but I have never bought dinner for an FB, and I never will. I don't want the drama that I know will arise down the road.
Now let's tackle MLTRs, which are a very different animal. An MLTR is someone you're actually dating; someone for whom you have romantic feelings and intentions. Spending money on an MLTR within reason is perfectly okay and I do it all the time. The key here is that while an MLTR is someone you really do like, an MLTR is not your girlfriend. Therefore if you go the standard beta-male-with-a girlfriend route on the spending money stuff, she's going to assume "girlfriend status" whether you intended it or not, then say hello to all kinds of drama, demands, and/or betaization.
With MLTRs, I will try to have many "dates" be cozy meetups at my house (cost to me: zero). While I don't like socially awkward women, I do tend to lean more towards women who aren't extreme extroverts who constantly have to "go out" all the time specifically for this reason: those kind of women tend to cost more money. Don't get me wrong. I have indeed had MLTRs, even serious ones, with women who were high-extroverts. I'm just saying that I try to make as many "dates" at my place as I can.
When I do go out with an MLTR, I will usually pay. Notice the word is "usually" and not "always." A general rule of thumb to follow is to make sure your MLTR pays for at least some of the event costs at least 40% of the time. She must understand that you are not her beta boyfriend, and that she must have some skin in the game if she wants you to stay in her life.
Never, ever, ever loan money to MLTRs, give MLTRs any expensive gifts, or purchase trips for MLTRs where you pay 100% of everything (plane, hotel, food, etc) and she pays for nothing. If you want to travel with your MLTR, that's fine as long as she kicks in for at least some of these costs, as much as her income allows. Otherwise, you're in for drama, demands, and/or betaization down the road.
I've had many trips with MLTRs where she paid for the plane tickets and I paid for the hotel. Sometimes I've done trips where she paid for her own plane ticket and I paid for everything else. Once I did a trip where I paid for both plane tickets and the hotel, but once we got there she was 100% responsible for all costs for both of us during the entire trip (all food, all events, all taxi rides, etc). All of these variations are fine; come up with one that works for you. Bottom line, she needs to know that you're not her boyfriend or sugar daddy.
An MLTR isn't your girlfriend, but an OLTR is. As such, there are no arbitrary limits upon when and how you can or should spend money on her. Technically, you can spend all the money you want on an OLTR, but there are two catches to this, and they're big:
1. If you're spending more money on her than you would an MLTR, then your relationship skill, confidence, outcome independence, Alpha Male frame, and open/poly EFA must be absolutely, 100% rock-solid at all times. If you are spending lots of money on your OLTR and you show even the slightest crack in any of these areas, you're in for (again, say it with me) drama, demands, and/or betaization.
These frame aspects are always important, but they're slightly less important in an MLTR if you're following the above guidelines and not spending a bunch of money on her. If you're spending zero or little money on her, you can actually screw up your frame or EFA a little and it won't harm you much. She knows you're not her "boyfriend" because you're not spending money on her like that (and you're having sex with other women, only seeing her once a week, and all the other usual rules).
But if she's an OLTR and you're showering her with money and never asking her to contribute to your relationships costs, if you crack even 1% on any of that stuff, you're in for some shit. Think of it as a scale: the more money you spend on a woman, even if she's an OLTR, the less margin for error you have on everything else you do or say with her.
2. She must have a very long track record of low-drama behavior and low-provider needs for 6-12 months with you before she becomes your OLTR. One of the most commonly ignored pieces of advice I give is to never, ever make any woman your OLTR until you've been seeing her as an MLTR for at least six months; 12 months is better.
The reason for this is that just about any woman can be a low-drama, low-maintenance, sex-positive sweetheart for two or three months. Women are very, very good at being sweetheart sex kittens for the first few weeks/months in any relationship. But after about three months, the real woman will start to shine through as she gets more "comfortable" with you. You really don't know what the hell you're dealing with until you've been with a woman consistently for 6-12 months.
If after twelve months she's still awesome, you've probably got a keeper. If after two months she's still awesome, I'm sorry to say you still have no idea what you're dealing with. Give her another four months at least, then you'll see what she's made of, and whether or not she can "handle" you spending money on her without her starting to take you for granted.
What About When Living Together?
I know I'm going to get questions about this, but how to handle the issue of when to spend money on a woman when you're actually living with her full-time (live-in OLTR or OLTR Marriage) is far beyond the scope of this article. This is because co-habitation introduces a slew of complicated and usually unfair financial and legal issues you're going to have to pre-plan for and navigate through. I cover all of these areas in extensive detail in my books and ebooks, so go there for more detailed information on that.
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Troubadour 2015-01-11 06:51:30
True story. I told my wife, "I'm not getting you anything for our 21st anniversary. The fact that you still have a husband IS your anniversary gift."
Kurt 2015-01-11 09:56:21
Interesting. I have a FB (older than me though) that I've been seeing now for two years. Almost every time we get together it goes exactly like this: she offers to cook me dinner, I ask her what wine and other stuff she wants me to bring. I come over, we have sex, then we have dinner, then back to bed for more sex. I never stay the night. Sometimes there's just sex, sometimes we drink beer or nothing. Maximum frequency once a week but usually once a month. Everything is just fine and we only recently had what you would call the 'verbalization point' and even that was mostly her just explaining to me what I already thought about our relationship and letting me know she was OK with it 🙂 So, does this violate your no money on FB rule? It seems to me that if both parties mutually contribute cost and effort to the experience it doesn't trigger the drama you write about. Or maybe she's a unicorn?
Blackdragon 2015-01-11 10:23:59
So, does this violate your no money on FB rule?Technically yes but in your case no. If you went 2 years with her with no drama then what you did worked. I still wouldn't recommend it to others, nor would I ever do such a thing. And it sounds like you've done everything else right, so that was your only deviation. I have an FB with almost exactly the same arrangement you describe, but I don't bring any wine, because I never offered to in the first place. I'm confident you would have had the same results had you never offered to bring wine in the first place.
It seems to me that if both parties mutually contribute cost and effort to the experience it doesn’t trigger the drama you write about.Absolutely wrong. This is one isolated case and you got lucky. And again, I'm confident you would have had zero problem if you never offered to bring wine. Moreover, it sounds like you are driving over to her place most times. That's effort on your part. Zero effort would be she always drives to your place, you fuck, then she leaves. (And I have/had many FBs just like that with zero drama.)
maybe she’s a unicorn?THERE ARE NO SUCH THING AS UNICORNS.
Kurt 2015-01-11 16:56:32
You're right about her being fine with me not offering to bring the wine. She has quite the cellar herself and often times we have a selection from hers. Also, since we both work in the beverage industry having wine is not a serious expense or extravagance for either of us. As I said there are times when I offer nothing except myself and she's fine with that. In fact the only thing she pushes for is to spend more time together, but I have never slipped on that one. I'm thinking this may be a maturity issue? I'm 45 and she is in her late 40s, divorced, kid in college. I'm certainly much more strict when dealing with younger women, as I agree with and have personally experienced the phenomenon you describe of younger girls going into provider/providee mindset really quickly once a dinner is paid for. Not so much in the older ones, but my sample size is smaller. As for having her come over, eh, not my thing. She has asked to come over and I have refused. I actually prefer to not have women over to my place if at all possible. I just have a thing about my privacy and my current living space is too small to divide into an area for entertaining guests and my 'inner sanctum' which is what I would prefer.
Kurt 2015-01-11 16:58:38
Oh, and I was just kidding about the unicorn thing 😉
Blackdragon 2015-01-11 17:29:58
You’re right about her being fine with me not offering to bring the wine.I know. 🙂
In fact the only thing she pushes for is to spend more time together, but I have never slipped on that one. I’m thinking this may be a maturity issue? I’m 45 and she is in her late 40s, divorced, kid in college.No. It's a female issue.
I’m certainly much more strict when dealing with younger women, as I agree with and have personally experienced the phenomenon you describe of younger girls going into provider/providee mindset really quickly once a dinner is paid for. Not so much in the older ones, but my sample size is smaller.I promise you it's just as bad for over-33 women, if not worse. And my sample size for all ages is huge.
As for having her come over, eh, not my thing.I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm suggesting you keep doing exactly what you're doing (going to her place) except never bring wine or anything else except your cock. Like I said, you haven't had problems so in your case it's no big deal; I'm saying this for the benefit of the readers. I have a woman I see regularly, 34 years old, I always go to her place, known her for years, and I never, ever, ever bring anything over except myself. No drama, no problem, ever. It works just fine.
Sachmo 2015-01-12 01:20:58
Random question, a bit unrelated... I read the book "Opening Up" recently - basically about open relationships. I was wondering if you had come across it. Overall it's ok, the one thing I don't like though is that 67% of the ppl surveyed were not hetero - and their life situations not really applicable. Anyway, suppose you have an OLTR - the agreement is that you can both discreetly see people on the side. How explicit would you be in defining a set of 'rules'? I.e. you can only see people that are not neighbors, coworkers, friends & family, etc - or would you leave it sort of ambiguous and to individual judgement. 2nd question - now suppose one of your rules is that only sex and no emotional attachments are allowed on the side. The woman starts seeing an FB, and over time develops 'feelings' for this person. Instead of going mono on you and doing the LSNFTE, one day she comes out with the fact that she's attached to this 3rd person and wants to see him regularly. So for clarity, she says she's in love with you both and wants to continue both relationships. Do you allow this? Dump her ass? Downgrade to an MLTR? I ask this b/c in an OLTR you can control your own behavior, but you obviously can't follow around your partner and enforce whatever 'rules' you set in place. Reading Opening Up - time and time again, things would get messy when one of the partners started developing 'feelings' for an FB that they were seeing on the side. This might be a bit much for the comments section, but am curious as to your perspective. Thanks.
Blackdragon 2015-01-12 12:35:20
Yeah, way too off-topic for this post. I'll include those questions in my newsletter though.
TigardPop 2015-01-12 13:41:56
Very, very good article. I was about to offer up a typical "well in my case" comment regarding spending money on FB. I have money and it doesn't really impact me to pick up some wine, spring for a hotel, etc,,, but that is NOT what your saying at all. This spend impacts the female behavior, regardless of what I think or feel. In re-reading this before I popped off a response I think about long term FB's who I spent nothing on and still see, and FB's who I made spend mistakes with and not one of them is still around. This is a new way for me to look at my own behavior in terms of how it impacts the female hive mind, and while in my head, it was just an off handed event of doing something nice, how she takes it can be much different. Now, I am assuming this is in regards to FB's you want to keep on the line. If I have to bring a bottle of wine to get some nice pussy and don't give a shit if I see her again, I am getting that wine!
POB 2015-01-12 14:51:19
What about cooking lunch/dinner at my place once in a while? Most of the time I do this just for the sake of (me) not being hungry after sex...
Greg 2015-01-12 14:57:39
"hot women always know that you’re replaceable, and thus know they don’t have to [put] up with this crap forever. So if you don’t mind having lots of short (as in under 6-12 months or so) relationships like this, then go for it. But if you want something to last longer, you’re going to have to get a little more strategic." Do hot women always know that you're replaceable? I would imagine being a successful alpha that treats her nicely and makes her cum every time is enough to make you stand out from the crowd a little. How is her paying for you "crap"? Can't she enjoy making you happy by using her money? I've noticed women are not as careful about spending money, "it's just money". 6-12 months relationships with hot women who pay for everything seems ideal if you have a system in place to always have at least one. Is her presence after 6-12 months that important to make the difference in costs worth it? How much of her time does that buy you on average? Another 2 years? "I try to make as many “dates” at my place as I can. When I do go out with an MLTR, I will usually pay." This may sound stupid, but why do you pay? Is it because she can't afford it and you want to have her around while doing activities that cost money? You want her around so much that you are willing to cover most of her costs? Are you bored of just having sex and talking/doing stuff that's free so you need variety with her? Is this the only way you can keep her longer in your life? "make sure your MLTR pays for at least some of the event costs at least 40% of the time." That averages out to her paying at most 20% of every activity that costs money, with you paying 4 times as much. Token paying so she doesn't get the wrong idea, if I understand correctly. But why do the activities in the first place? If it costs you 60% more to have her along, is it really worth it? Is she so special that you can't have another one along who covers at least her half? Is this the only way she will stay in your life longer than 6-12 months? Isn't being an alpha 2.0 and busting your ass making her cum every time enough?
Blackdragon 2015-01-12 16:32:56
I have money and it doesn’t really impact me to pick up some wine, spring for a hotel, etc,,, but that is NOT what your saying at all. This spend impacts the female behavior, regardless of what I think or feel. In re-reading this before I popped off a response I think about long term FB’s who I spent nothing on and still see, and FB’s who I made spend mistakes with and not one of them is still around.Precisely. Even if you have $100 million and are the most generous man in the world, you still don't want to pay for things for FBs. Its incongruent. It will cause emotional turmoil for her that will result in either drama or her leaving. It has nothing whatsoever with your ability to pay or your generosity. Save the spending money stuff for MLTRs / OLTR.
What about cooking lunch/dinner at my place once in a while?For MLTRs, sure. For FBs, no. Now if you want to be an exception to the rule, then only do it rarely, make damn sure you are doing 100% of everything else perfectly right with your FBs, then go ahead if you want. Just realize you're still deviating from what works best.
Do hot women always know that you’re replaceable?In the respect that you are a man they're dating or having sex with, YES. You are ALWAYS replaceable. Do they know that an Alpha 2.0 is a rare and wonderful thing and probably can't be replaced exactly? Sure. That doesn't mean women can and often will eventually next you, dump you, or LSNFTE you for a beta or Alpha 1.0 who will make the promises you won't (even if they're lying) and will fall into line (at least for a while) with all of her Disney desires. Of course she'll come back to you eventually, but that's another topic.
How is her paying for you “crap”?Crap in that she has to spend money on you when she spends time with you but gets free money / gifts / dinners / ass-kissing / etc if she spends time with some other guy who wants her pussy.
Can’t she enjoy making you happy by using her money?For a while, yes. For longer than 6-12 months of consistently paying for 100% of everything, no (unless she's not hot or a very odd exception to the rule).
6-12 months relationships with hot women who pay for everything seems ideal if you have a system in place to always have at least one.Yeah, that will probably work for many men. I prefer my relationships to last longer (ideally 4-6 years at least before the first LSNFTE), but that's just me. If you can structure things where you are NEVER paying ANYTHING for ANY woman and have a bunch of women come in and out of your life every few months, then go for it. I would not enjoy such an arrangement. I prefer order and stability. But again, that's just me. You may be very happy with that.
This may sound stupid, but why do you pay?First, put it in context: 1. I NEVER pay ANYTHING for FBs. 2. MOST of my women, and most of the sex I have, are with FBs, not MLTRs. Therefore most of the women I have sex with cost me zero dollars at all times. 3. MOST of the time with MLTRs, I don't go out at all. We just chill at my place. Cost = zero. 4. MOST of the time I go "out" with an MLTR, it's to a cheapass restaurant like Red Robin or Olive Garden or something, and that's it. Fast food is common too. I don't do other actives (expensive or otherwise) regularly. 5. OFTEN MLTRs pay some or all of the bill when we go out. So given the all above context, your question becomes, "Why do you pay the very small percentage of time you spend with women in activities that cost money?" Because paying that tiny amount keeps betaization demands low and it reduces LSFNTE rates dramatically. Very high return on investment based on what I want (and again, you may want something different).
Is she so special that you can’t have another one along who covers at least her half?No, you're absolutely correct about that. MLTRs who expect more money spent on them will be instantly nexted or downgraded for other MLTRs who demand less money spent on them (or zero). Happens all the time. Any woman in my life knows that if I have to spend more money on her (as a percentage) then she's in at least some danger of being replaced for her "spot" by another woman who is cool paying for her half or more. Perfect example, the longest contiguous MLTR/OLTR I ever had in my life (5.5 years) usually paid for everything (hers and mine) when we went out, for exactly that reason. She wanted to be damn sure she was number one. And she was, for a long time. (Of course that's not the only reason she was my number one, but it certainly was a contributing factor.)
rgz 2015-01-12 18:05:09
Can you have a MLTR or OLTR where each person pays for their own stuff, 50/50?
Blackdragon 2015-01-12 18:24:19
Can you have a MLTR or OLTR where each person pays for their own stuff, 50/50?Of course! Those are fantastic, and likely optimal. That's why in the article above I said AT LEAST 40% of the costs involved. Not "40%." 50% is way better than 40%. 100% is way better than 40% too; it's just that 100% of the costs 100% of the time isn't sustainable.
POB 2015-01-13 11:54:02
THX for the tips BD, that's what I've kinda figured myself through some trial and error. Man, I think to me it's just too hard to eat clean after a wild sex session...so I'd rather eat first and then go have some fun with her. Personally I try to apply the 50/50 rule as you guys stated. If we go out, it's 50/50 for everything (cab, parking ticket, dinner, whatever). If she refuses to pay for anything after the first date it's insta next. On a final note I really don't mind cooking (in fact I like to do so for my own pleasure). If she arrives at lunch/dinner time she can join me, and that's it. But I got the overall picture. Nice post BTW!
Lovergirl 2015-01-15 22:59:36
Expecting women to foot part of the bill- lame! If you don't want to pay just don't go anywhere that costs money. It makes you look like a loser. As for guys who have women paying for them...that is even worse. It makes him look like a total loser/sleazeball to be getting taken care of by a woman. Very emasculating, in my opinion.
Blackdragon 2015-01-15 23:08:56
Expecting women to foot part of the bill- lame!Oh yes, of course. Because, you know, women are doing us a fuckin' favor by spending time with us unworthy penis-wielders. Remember though, I'm not talking about 1st or 2nd dates. I'm talking about relationships.
Lovergirl 2015-01-15 23:38:39
It's more about the power dynamic. A woman paying says she is in control. A man paying says he is. Splitting the bill is more "fair" but it also is very unsexy. It's like a business transaction at that point, when you worry about everything being "even".
Jack Outside the Box 2015-01-19 16:21:42
@LG: Right, because all of those gold diggers feel like the man is in control and they are only his puppets! LMAO!!!!! Get real!
Jasmine 2015-12-28 14:32:24
Oh this is low but its okay boys we have websites too like this...i make my money.. I am a gym rat and i am goodlooking...i dont like hoeing around either....but as i am independent...i actually like this article...it shows me where i need to invest my time and money...oh and body....footing the bill i have no problem...but if a man doesnt have money well bye felica...i rather split it...men looking for women to take it all might as well hand over their balls beacuse i look for a man that knows i dont need him but wants me too... Ugly and fat nope...smart and sexy you got it but my guy has to work like i do....
Mandy 2016-07-21 20:47:36
Im a female and I must say that this article amazes me. No wonder sugar babies are becoming so popular nowadays.
David 2016-08-12 08:42:56
Nice article buddy. Even if nowadays it's pretty hard to find even a 50%-50% relationship.
Valerie 2016-11-25 22:13:44
Ahhh yet another highly delusional article written by someone under the assumption that most men can afford (excuse the pun) to adopt the same mentality as you. I'm going to wager a bet that you're a fairly decent looking man if you are supposedly able to attract the opposite sex so easily. But try writing something from the perspective of a not so attractive man. Because the way I see it - if he's butt-ugly and/or overweight and/or older than water then he doesn't really have much of an alternative now does he other than to give into the demands of a reasonably good looking female who cared enough to look at him twice. Why else is the sugardaddy world becoming the most popular thing nowadays? Sure these relationships are destined not to last but an unattractive man is usually a lot more realistic than others and accepts early on in life that this is his destiny. His world is always going to be different therefore the alternative - having to pay women to be yours even if it's always going to be short term - is better than having no women at all! Heck you guys are happy to throw money at strippers and spend an extra thousand or two buying the fancier car but to buy a bottle of wine for a woman you are f*cking is apparently a no-no. When did men become so ultra stingy? You can't really have the audacity to call yourselves alpha men either because the true characteristic of the alpha male is - you guessed it - a man that provides! The best definition for your lot would be the Elliot-Rogers males. A new breed of female-hating, money-worshipping boys suffering from little-man syndrome who expect everything for nothing from a woman (but ironically get super uptight towards the females who want everything for nothing)... Can you say Irony?
Blackdragon 2016-11-25 22:49:00
I’m going to wager a bet that you’re a fairly decent looking man if you are supposedly able to attract the opposite sex so easily.Actually, I'm overweight, have man boobs, an obvious double chin, and I'm often as much as 20 years older than the women I date, but nice try.
Spending money on your man a bad idea? share your thought with us! 2016-12-18 16:01:03
[…] thing that leads some ladies to being extravagant and turning their man to ATM (automated teller machine) are friends, some ladies do not have a mind […]
Angel 2017-05-29 21:06:11
I think men underestimate the power of honesty and communication. I would respect a man that told me he only wanted a physical relationship. And depending on how attracted I was to him and what I thought of him as a person I may or may not be fine with that. But I would respect the hell out of him for being honest. I think most women want true connection in hopes for something more down the road but will settle for a physical relationship if it is beneficial to them in some way. You want sex and she wants something in return whatever that may be you're both benefiting. You have to understand that for the most part men and women want two different things from each other. Women want to be nurtured and men want to be satisfied. So if you're not looking for a real relationship then yes it is okay and expected that you are spoiling her in some way. That is the trade-off. When a woman lets you penetrate her she is letting you dominate her. she is putting her trust in you that you are not going to hurt her. so if you are not building her up in some way whether that be emotionally or physically /financially supporting her then you are doing damage to her psyche whether you want to believe it or not.
Anon 2017-05-29 21:12:49
Valerie is obviously just angling for freebies. Get a job, toots. You already have tons of affirmative action on your side, so don't angle for even more freebies. Angel still thinks that a man who wants to do well with women should listen to women's advice. Nothing could be further than the truth. This is in fact what leads men astray. Angel has no idea how women think. And no, being a woman does not mean you know how women think. Quite the opposite, in fact (as PUAs have proved spectacularly).
Jack Outside the Box 2017-05-30 01:32:43
Political correctness detected! Initiating red pill countermeasures now:
I think men underestimate the power of honesty and communication.Well thanks for that dose of "Dr." Phil's horseshit theater. You've now convinced me to wash my dick with my girlfriend's empowering period blood. I hope you're proud.
I would respect a man that told me he only wanted a physical relationship.He shouldn't have to tell you. It should be assumed, unless he is obviously hinting at something more. Casual sex is the default. Get that through your head.
And depending on how attracted I was to him and what I thought of him as a person I may or may not be fine with that.But for those of us who actually have a few ounces of social intelligence, we understand that verbally asking women bluntly without putting them into a certain state of mind will probably result in them saying no. Most men don't have autistic tendencies, and they understand that a woman being seduced and sub-communicated to dramatically increases the chances of her agreeing to go along with the man's program, rather than simply bluntly asking from the beginning before the mood has been set and before she has received any orgasms from him. We are different people who agree to different things based on the mood we're in, as dictated by the other person's charm, charisma, ability to fuck properly, and the like. Just bluntly asking like this as if this is a contract negotiation does not create the correct type of brain chemistry inside the woman for her to say yes. Most females - both human and animal - have to be wooed by the opposite sex. That's the game of love. Not some rational conversation, which doesn't spark the sexual attraction that is needed for the woman to be motivated to make a more affirmative decision.
But I would respect the hell out of him for being honest.No man gives a flying fuck about you respecting him for his honesty. That's not what we're after. I can't stick my dick in your respect for my honesty.
I think most women want true connectionOh god, here we fucking go... All aboard the PC Oprah train! Choo! choo!
in hopes for something more down the road but will settle for a physical relationship if it is beneficial to them in some way.Correct. And I think multiple orgasms make a physical relationship beneficial to her, no?
You want sex and she wants something in returnSomething in return....something in return, you say? Gee.....I wonder.......Oh wait, how about if I give her.......SEX!!!!!!! Wouldn't you say that's a fair and equal exchange?
whatever that may be you’re both benefiting.Right. Sex in exchange for sex. Win/win baby!
You have to understand that for the most part men and women want two different things from each other. Women want to be nurturedUm yeah, why don't you take that shit to Saudi Arabia where a "big strong man" can "nurture" you all you want. Here in the West, I prefer women to be adults. You see, I'm an anti-pedophile. Weird, I know.
and men want to be satisfied.Oh trust me, if my girlfriend isn't satisfied (if you know what I mean) at least once every other day, she starts getting antsy. In fact, I doubt the girl can go without sex for a week. I seriously doubt it. She gets pissed at me for refusing to fuck her on her period (because that's disgusting to me).
So if you’re not looking for a real relationship then yes it is okay and expected that you are spoiling her in some way.How about giving her lots of orgasms? Isn't that spoiling her? If so, then I agree.
That is the trade-off.Yep. Sex for sex. A beautiful and equal trade off.
When a woman lets you penetrate herStop right there! "Lets you penetrate her?" You sound so passive. In fact, everything you're saying makes it sound like a woman is an asexual, and heterosexuality belongs only to the man. I don't get it. My girlfriend doesn't "let me penetrate her" like some kind of cold fish. She enthusiastically grabs my dick and shoves it into her pussy while demanding I push it in harder! How is that compared to your non-sexual "lets you penetrate her" rhetoric? Is your sex drive unusually low, per chance?
she is letting you dominate her.Again with the passive and asexual language. She doesn't just lay there and let me do what I want like some kind of generous lesbian! My god woman, have you ever heard of the concept of "female heterosexuality?" That's a serious question.
she is putting her trust in you that you are not going to hurt her.And most men put their trust in a woman that she isn't going to bite their dicks off when she sucks them. Your point?
so if you are not building her up in some way whether that be emotionally or physicallyOh I definitely build her up physically.
/financially supporting herNo. I assume she's an adult. If she's a child or a bum, I'm not interested.
then you are doing damage to her psyche whether you want to believe it or not.I'm doing damage to her psyche by doing to her exactly what she's doing to me? I'm doing damage to her by giving her multiple screaming orgasms??? Um.....you want to explain that to me very slowly? I'll ask again: Have you ever heard of the idea that women are heterosexuals? Say it with me: H-E-T-E-R-O-S-E-X-U-A-L-S!
Kellen 2018-07-20 11:18:05
God bless you Jack,very intelligent explanation, you have said it all...All this passive females needs to get themselves checked,why the hell would a lady want something in return for sex in a relationship?? That is simply contemporary prostitution and nothing else to me,I'm dealing with a lot of women like this here in Nigeria ,our women are extremely passive with profound impact on men. Personally I have a rule, No sex, no spending since no 99percent of our women are passive and would always expect something (financial support) in return for sex in which they believe they are doing men a favour
A Lovely Little Spider~ 2018-11-12 16:38:28
I am falling in love with a girl who seems to be having the same experience I am. I'd really like to spend more than a logical person like myself would. I don't have a clue what all your acronyms mean but to me she is a goddess. I see her as more than a human being. I really never thought I would ever meet someone that I connect with on a spiritual level AND is BEAUTIFUL. Her soul is gorgeous and she's not looking for a relationship. However she said she is willing to get to know me. We've had sex a few times already and when we first touched the passion was electric. I want to spend about $100 on an Airbnb. Her and I treasure nature and there will be lots of animals, cats, dogs, goats, chickens. I also plan to take her to goat yoga. I only see her twice a week because I trust that my therapist has a valid reason for limiting my contact with her. After talking to him today he said I am falling in love and that most people never do experience this. He said twice "This is what Shakespeare wrote about" Anyways I'm not real sure that you can way in on this situation. I don't believe that spending money on her would drive her away. However, I not in the best financial shape. At least not to the degree that would support my desire to spend money on her. Does anyone have anyone have any experience using a credit card with 0% interest for 12-15 months to finance a getaway?