Get Free Email Updates!
Join us for FREE to get instant email updates!
Why I Don’t Do One Night Stands
What's the difference between spending money and investing money? The difference is when you spend money, it's gone forever. When you invest money, you keep the money, and you get more money on top of that from your earned interest.
-By Caleb Jones
I have been asked a lot lately why I don't do one night stands. The time and effort to get a one night stand with a woman is like spending money. You put in all that time of opening women, getting rejected, going out on dates, putting in that time, then finally having sex. If it's a one night stand, you have sex one time, and then it's all over. All that time and effort leading up to that sex was like spent money. It's gone. Once it's the next morning after that ONS, you have nothing to show for it.
You may argue that you get the benefit of a brief charge of manly manness as you beat your chest and mentally add another "notch" to your "notch count." But Jesus, that's all you get. For all that effort. Is that little charge worth it? Only you can answer that question for you. For me, the answer is no.
After the next morning, since the ONS is over, you now have to go back and do all that stuff all over again...just for one more evening of sex. You spent your "money." Now you have to go back to square one and spend it all over again.
I do the complete opposite. With 100% of the women I have sex with for the first time, my goal is to place them into a long-term relationship with me under either a nonmonogamous FB, MLTR, or OLTR category. I want to be having sex with them, off and on at least, for a very, very long time. Ideally, the rest of my life, but if not that then at least for several years.
This is exactly what happens with me and it's wonderful. For example, there are women who I still see sexually sometimes who are now in their mid 20s who used to be 18 and 19 when I first dated them years ago. There are women I still see sexually who are in their 40s who were in their early to mid 30s when I first started seeing them years ago. And on and on.
This means that when I meet new women, or send out online openers to new women, or go out on first and second dates with new women, and spend the time and effort necessary to get to sex, I receive a massive return on that time investment. Once I have sex with her, I'm going to be having sex with her for years and years. That's in addition to the woman I'm already having sex with, and in addition to any new women I choose to add later. When I have sex with a new woman, it's a huge and long-term win. When an ONS guy has sex with a new woman, it's a very minor and brief win.
Do all the women I have sex with become long-term relationships? To be fair and objective, we need to discuss my success ratios with the number of women I have sex with one time that become ongoing FBs or MLTRs. No problem. As always, I track everything I do with women on spreadsheets, so I can give you exact figures.
77% of every new woman I have sex with end up becoming an ongoing relationship. My overall historical breakdown over the last eight years is about 50% FBs, 50% MLTRs. Though honestly, lately in my life, as in the last 18 months or so, there have been more FBs and fewer MLTRs. This is because I'm getting more busy with work (FBs take less time) and my standards for serious relationships have increased.
Essentially a variation on the LSNFTE concept. Almost 100% of every woman I have sex with two times becomes an ongoing relationship. This is why my goal with a new woman is not to have sex with her once, but have sex with her twice. Having sex with a woman twice is a concept I call Lock-In in my ebooks. After having sex with you twice (meaning on two separate occasions), a woman is now "locked into you," at least for some period of time, since her ASD with you is now completely gone and it's now "normal" for her (in her mind) to be having sex with you. If you routinely have sex with women twice and they still bail out on you, then you need to dial back the player vibe a little bit.
65% of women who become FBs or MLTRs with me have a relationship with me that lasts many years long. Two years, three years, five years, six years, and sometimes even longer. I do all the right things in relationships so multi-years-long nonmonogamous relationships are the norm for me. Sometimes these are consistent relationships, other times they are inconsistent with LSNFTEs when they leave, but 94% of these women come back to me afterwards. My longest consistent relationship so far was 5.5 years. My longest inconsistent one has gone eight years so far. A decade from now I'll have a nice portfolio of many decade-long relationships, even after I go full OLTR.
So as you can see, when I have sex with a new woman, my odds are overwhelming that I'll be having sex with that woman for years and years to come. A huge return on investment. I know that whenever I open women or go out on a first date, that is time very, very well spent on my part.
This is why I feel a little sorry for ONS players. They put in all this time and effort for sex, often more effort than me, and the next morning after the sex they have nothing. Then they have to start all over again. This is also why I can sarge for new women just once or twice a year and yet have a calendar full of sex with multiple women. My sarging time is invested instead of spent.
It's true that if you're a Thrill of the Hunt guy, then having sex with a woman for several years probably sounds very boring to you, even if you're still having sex with other women. Therefore many of you TH guys "need" the thrill of constant ONSs to make you feel happy. I understand. I don't agree with it, since I'm not that kind of guy, but I understand. I still feel sorry for guys like this. I get so much pleasure and happiness (and sex!) from such a small amount of time and effort invested. Which, frankly, is the goal of life.
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.
Get Free Email Updates!
Join us for FREE to get instant email updates!
Kevin 2015-01-29 07:03:14
This philosophy also has the added advantage of lowering the chances of a false rape allegation, which I believe you mentioned the other day.
carlosandrospua 2015-01-29 08:19:02
I understand your point. BUT.. I think its too black and white. seduction itself is neither..yes you want NOT waste your time..thats called Screening. credit Franco seduction* I think that when you get in MLTR that sometimes your attraction game takes a toll abit..I like bwing in MLTR and at same time if I feel like it..day game and even night game..day game is pretty much talk talk talk while night game is more for me subtle and fun ..and mostly more non verbals and its exciting... when I go at night to have fun,Im not thinking about investing.its just hving fun..since I cant drink I have water... Good post. just my different take. -CS
carlosandrospua 2015-01-29 08:25:10
""the next morning after the sex they have nothing. Then they have to start all over again."" I think its depending on the girl.same girls at club bar are dressed up but might be looking for different things at their phase in Life. I feel you are putting too much uncesarry pressure on guys instead of simply stating the obvious .
Blackdragon 2015-01-29 10:22:40
I think its depending on the girl.same girls at club bar are dressed up but might be looking for different things at their phase in Life.Of course, but that doesn't change the fact that the ONS guy needs to start all over again if he wants to have more sex. That's my only point.
Glenn Pearce 2015-01-29 12:34:22
I'd like to chime in here... First I would like to say that I couldn't agree with you more about getting the proper return on your investment. Secondly, I've come to the same conclusion about having sex with women only 1 time but by a completely different path of value for your investment and that investment was in myself. When I was first getting good with women, I was all about the kill! The conquest to inflate my ego and confirm that I truly mastered SNL's or SDL's was all that mattered but somewhere along the way and after having slept with 100's of women as fast as I could, I realized that my ego was having the same problems as before if not even worse. For me, it was all about validating myself with my sexual conquests. First it was 7's, then 8's, then 9's, then 10's and then 3somes and so on... All left me with just a temporary sense of confidence and validation. It wasn't until I fully learned how to validate myself that I realized what I truly wanted in my life and that is the same as you. Having multiple wonderful women in my life for extended periods. The women I now have sex with are always of a certain caliber or I won't have sex with them and because of my now standards in women and life-style, if I choose to have sex with a woman it will certainly be more than just once because she will definitely be the type of woman I want in my life.
Parade 2015-01-29 14:01:53
Interesting, about half of my lays are one night stands of one form or the other. There are two main reasons for it, for me. One: I'm not that into them, and, while I'll set up a first date to see, I'm just not willing to put any effort into a second date. This 99% of the time results in us never meeting up again. This is probably avoidable by just not setting up the first date if I'm not that attracted to the chick. Two: The sex wasn't that good. I tend to be a bit on the extreme side, and not every chick is into that. I tone it down for the first time we have sex, but if I don't think the potential is there, I'm not going to pursue sex a second time. Unless you're willing to have sex with any chick that's attractive, regardless of how the sex is, I'm not sure how this one can be avoided. It does, however, seem quite strange to go into a situation with a new chick intended to only see/have sex with her once. Seems like a lot of wasted effort.
Blackdragon 2015-01-29 14:30:23
I’m just not willing to put any effort into a second date. This 99% of the time results in us never meeting up again. This is probably avoidable by just not setting up the first date if I’m not that attracted to the chick.A surprising number of men have this problem and I don't understand it at all. Lots of men complain to me about going out on dates with women they don't find attractive. And this is not about online game women lying about their photos; this is men who do daygame, social circle game, and night game, who know exactly what she looks like, including women via online game who look just like their profile photos indicate. Never in my entire life have I pursued, much less gone out on a date with, a woman I wouldn't have sex with. I find it bizarre that so many men do this. It's pretty much a 100% guarantee to waste your time.
I tend to be a bit on the extreme side, and not every chick is into that. I tone it down for the first time we have sex, but if I don’t think the potential is there, I’m not going to pursue sex a second time. Unless you’re willing to have sex with any chick that’s attractive, regardless of how the sex is, I’m not sure how this one can be avoided.Now that's an excellent point and you're absolutely right about that. As long as a woman is physically attractive to me, for me the sex can't be "bad." But if you're not like that, have have very specific and/or unusual sexual needs/desires, then yes, one night stands are probably inevitable for you since you'll have to "vet" various potential partners who are sexually compatible with you. Good point.
Parade 2015-01-29 15:13:40
You'll never hear me complain about going on dates with not-very-attractive chicks, since it was my choice to do it. It's more of 'well, I'm bored, a bit horny, and the date is likely only an hour, sure, why not, maybe she surprises me' Then I get to the date, she's into me and wants to fuck, so 10 minutes later we do(almost every date I go on happens 10 minutes from where I live). I'm not willing to invest more energy in those chicks, in the form of a text for a second date / opening it up for drama. It's just a fun way to kill an hour or two. I guess, simply put, sometimes they beat masturbating or playing a video game, or otherwise wasting time. It should be noted that in this case, if *she* asked to come over for sex at a future point my answer would be yes. The only thing I'm not doing here is going out of my way to contact her / attempt to set anything up. This, of course, assumes I enjoyed the sex the first time around.
Diggy 2015-01-29 23:58:54
Am I weird? Im not even really comfortable with a women until the second or third time. Ive never in my life gone after a ONS...sure its happened but I would say I never tried real hard either.
Matt T. 2015-01-30 04:40:30
The anthem for ONS players who put in all the effort for just a little gain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvYIpa1Ulvw
Matija 2015-01-30 05:47:15
im gonna be a bit off topic, i just want thanks to u blackdragon for the free advices u give us and for improving our lifestyles, i started to do shit with my life instead of wasting time doing nothing... take a look at this guys post on reddit which really got to me, i wish did guy had you to look up to 25 years ago, its all what you are telling about by how settling for 1 woman and 9-5 job sucks, his wife cheated him for 10 years and for stupid reason like u mentioned.This is what happens when u have no drive and focus on 1 thing your whole life. u really helped me mate, so i wanted to share this with you. http://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/2livoo/tifu_my_whole_life_my_regrets_as_a_46_year_old/
Blackdragon 2015-01-30 14:53:36
You’ll never hear me complain about going on dates with not-very-attractive chicks, since it was my choice to do it. It’s more of ‘well, I’m bored, a bit horny, and the date is likely only an hour, sure, why not, maybe she surprises me’Even if you get to sex with a few of those women, that still sounds like a huge recipe for a lot of wasted time. But if it works for you, go for it.
Am I weird? Im not even really comfortable with a women until the second or third time. Ive never in my life gone after a ONSNo, you're not weird. Every man is different. I'm perfectly comfortable having sex on the first date (when it happens, which is rare for me) but many men aren't. Each to their own.
i just want thanks to u blackdragon for the free advices u give us and for improving our lifestylesYou're very welcome!
Parade 2015-01-30 15:43:28
I'm not going far out of my way, but it's time I was going to waste anyway, on video games, tv, or whatnot. Sometimes I'd rather spend that time on a date with a chick, even if she's a 4, than at home. If I'm on the date and she's interested I have no reason to say no, even if I'm not that into her.
carlosandrospua 2015-01-30 19:04:08
Can your next post be "Why I Don't Do Stripper Game" Thank you. -the audience
Blackdragon 2015-01-31 11:23:05
I have no problem with stripper game as long as you keep them to FBs.
Bruce 2015-04-17 00:59:40
@BD: The numbers in this post are very interesting. The question I find myself asking is, how many MLTRs are you able to sustain simultaneously? Every woman you're involved with requires time, attention, effort... and then there are all the other things to do with living that demand the same. Realistically, I can't imagine having more than two, perhaps three, serious simultneous MLTRs. From your numbers it sounds as though you somehow manage to stay on top of dozens... Have you discovered the secret of not needing to sleep?
carlosandro 2015-04-17 01:13:25
This is soo abstract..relative..to any guys needs.. the numbers and stats are different based on guy's skill level and confidence and what they focus on. for someone like BD his thing is online...not stripper or nightgame or daygame or even SNL game.. I think takes TOO MUCH energy and thats the point of the article. thanks -CS
Blackdragon 2015-04-17 11:34:44
@BD: The numbers in this post are very interesting. The question I find myself asking is, how many MLTRs are you able to sustain simultaneously?1-3. Usually 1-2.
Every woman you’re involved with requires time, attention, effort… and then there are all the other things to do with living that demand the same.Not if you only see them once a week and keep contact outside of in-person visits minimal.
Realistically, I can’t imagine having more than two, perhaps three, serious simultneous MLTRs. From your numbers it sounds as though you somehow manage to stay on top of dozens… Have you discovered the secret of not needing to sleep?Nope. Just 1-3 MLTRs, usually one or two.
Bruce 2015-04-18 04:33:09
We agree then. That's reassuring.
JohnJohn 2016-02-08 10:52:15
Do you find that having sex on the first date negatively impacts the odds of getting lays after that? Is this the reason for your two date lay preference? Also what's your timeframe where something becomes an "ongoing relationship?" as mentioned in the article.
Blackdragon 2016-02-08 19:38:15
Do you find that having sex on the first date negatively impacts the odds of getting lays after that?I don't find that, other men who do lots of one night stands do. These guys are constantly complaining they can't get the second lay. So yes.
Is this the reason for your two date lay preference?No. That's the secondary reason. The primary reason is having sex on the second date is faster than having it on the first date. I can have sex with a woman on a second date within 3 hours total face time. Most guys who have sex with women on the first date spend hours and hours on that first date, often way into the evening, usually way past 3 hours. So second-date lays are more time efficient.
Also what’s your timeframe where something becomes an “ongoing relationship?” as mentioned in the article.I don't have a specific number, but it's at least several months consistently, after the second time we have sex.
Eric Hunt 2017-04-15 07:30:28
Really a nice comparison of spending money and investing money. People, those are desperate for sexual attraction are always looking for opportunities to satisfy their sexual interest and it ends in a one night stand. But the real fact is how much pleasure we gain from that particular moment, either we spend money or invest money for that. Sex is not all about one night stand, we share a pleasure moment with the opposite gender through our better sexual performance. Thanks for such a wonderful article.
Nessa 2017-11-24 15:44:12
As a woman I have to say, reading this article makes me feel slightly disgusted. I'm not sure if you are aware of how this can be interpreted, and you must obviously do some things right if you managed to keep so many women by your side for such a long time. But: Do they know that they are just one of many? I sure hope you treat your "harem" with more respect than how you write about them, because for me this reads like a farmer talking about his lifestock. Also, it sounds like you are looking for excuses as to why certain women didn't want to sleep with you for a second time. Have you ever considered that they might have not liked the sex, or were simply not into you that much?
Blackdragon 2017-11-24 16:07:14
you must obviously do some things right if you managed to keep so many women by your side for such a long timeCorrect.
Do they know that they are just one of many?Yep. I never lie to women.
Have you ever considered that they might have not liked the sex, or were simply not into you that much?Of course. 24% of women one night stand me. Clearly those 24% probably don't like me for whatever reason, but I don't focus on them. I instead focus on the 76% of women who stay with me.
Jack Outside the Box 2017-11-28 18:00:23
Political correctness detected. Initiating red pill countermeasures now:
As a woman I have to say, reading this article makes me feel slightly disgusted.Haha! Of course it does!
I’m not sure if you are aware of how this can be interpreted,Who gives a flying fuck how something can be interpreted? If you try hard enough, you can interpret one thing in 60,000 different ways, depending on your self esteem and level of mental stability. So a lesbian separatist will interpret everything as rape. A stupid social justice lunatic will interpret everything as a "micro-aggression." Who gives a fuck? We're not responsible for the interpretations of brain dead, sex-hating lunatics!
I sure hope you treat your “harem” with more respect than how you write about them, because for me this reads like a farmer talking about his lifestock.This is a low sex drive interpretation, implying that sex is a one way street (all for the man). Ever checked your hormone levels?
Fibonacci 2019-01-21 12:10:44
Two questions regarding getting ONS-ed. There seems to be this inherent norm of nightgame being a ONS. Girls wake up, and panic once sober, getting the fuck out of there. Then they are very hard to meet again. Is nightgame terrible for this FB/MLTR lifestyle? Should I, on nights out, go for numbers instead? After about 20 drunken ONS, its just not that satisfying anymore. I want MLTRs. I am actually quite good in bed, I can go for very long and make her cum mostly. So that shouldnt be the issue. Second question. IF I do have sex, and want to optimize chances of getting the second lay, how do I go about text game afterwards? You say to get the second lay ASAP. But if I pitch a meetup very quickly after, it looks needy as fuck. Maybe shoot some fun texts, and pitch meetup maybe four days later? Would appreciate any help!