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5 Easy Ways To Get A Second Date
-By Caleb Jones
Before we get into specifics on how to improve your second date ratios, I need to repeat that all-too-important concept: dating and seduction is a numbers game. You cannot avoid this. You cannot deny this. Most importantly, you cannot let this make you upset.
Even if you have the looks of Ryan Gosling, the vibe of Johnny Depp, and the game skills of Mystery, you are still going to have a reasonably significant percentage of women who will never want to see you again after a first date. It could be because you weren't their type, or because they had a bad day, or because there's another guy in the picture, or because they had their period at the wrong time, or a hundred other varied and possible reasons you have zero control over no matter how awesome you are.
This is normal, natural, and not something you should get upset about. Dating is a numbers game. It always will be. No one, and I mean no one, has a 100% success rate. (At anything.) Even someone who claims a 90%, 80%, or perhaps even a 70% success rate at getting laid across a prolonged period of time is probably full of shit.
At the same time, if you are having first date after first date and tons of women are vanishing right after, then something is probably off in your game, frame, attitude, or appearance that you need to adjust.
Here are five ways you can raise your odds that a woman will want to see you again (sexually) after a first date, listed in order of importance and prevalence.
1. For Christ sake, stop talking!
If you have lots of women who don't want to see you after the first date, I can almost guarantee that you're talking too much. As I've explained in detail elsewhere, unlike men, women date to DISqualify. They're looking for things in you they don't like.
If you talk a lot, the odds are overwhelming that you're going to say something that she doesn't like. If that happens, it's game over. Most women, even very nice sweet ones, are very picky about this within a first date environment. If you say anything that she disagrees with emotionally, politically, religiously, regarding men or women, or regarding children, you are OUT. This is true even if you state just one sentence she doesn't like in an entire hour or two of conversation, and even if she is otherwise attracted to you.
I'm not exaggerating. This is how most women work.
This means that during a first date you need to SHUT UP. She should be doing 80% of the talking. The only time you talk should be when you're asking her questions to keep her talking. Even if she asks you a question, answer it quickly in a neutral manner, then immediately redirect back to her with another question. The person asking the questions is the person in control of the conversation. The more she talks, the less you need to talk. This is good.
There's an added benefit to this. Women get more comfortable the more they talk. As I've said many times, women process the world by talking. The more she talks, the more she'll like you. This is Dale Carnegie 101. I know that doesn't make any sense, but again, this is how women work.
2. Dial back the player vibe.
A 100% player vibe is fine if all you're doing is first-date lays and/or one night stands. But if your game is like mine and revolves around getting to sex on the second date, a 100% player vibe is going to murder your results.
The ideal combination for this style of game is 85% player, 15% provider. Please read this article right here.
Most guys I run into who are decent at getting first dates but horrible at getting second dates are often the ones acting too playerish.
3. Don't kiss her on the first date. Kino, sex talk, but don't kiss.
This is huge. I've talked about this before both here and on my podcasts. Today I'm going to be as clear as I can about this.
On a first date, unless you know for 99% certainly that you are getting laid on that date, if you kiss a woman, your odds of ever having sex with her on any subsequent date go DOWN.
I have empirical data in my own spreadsheets to back this up, and every guy I've given this advice to has reported back that it did make a positive difference. On a first date, kino her, and sex talk her, but do NOT actually kiss her.
If you kiss her, you destroy some of the sexual tension. You also boost post-date ASD and buyer's remorse. "OMG I don't even know this guy's last name and I made out with him!" All bad.
It might feel nice to kiss a woman on a first date, especially when she's really hot and seems really receptive. But I promise it won't be nice when she blows you off for the second date, or agrees to a second date but gets pissy when you try to escalate to sex.
I know this may not make sense to your logical male brain, but don't kiss women on first dates. Trust me, you'll get laid way more if you don't kiss. Touch her, have a sexual vibe, talk about sex, keep the date to just 60 minutes, then get the hell out of there. If you want more detail on first-date technique, go here.
Save the kissing (and sex) for the second date.
4. Avoid making any negative statements.
Even if you are following my advice and not talking much, at some point you'll have to talk a little bit, so you need to watch what you say. A few techniques on this:
- Avoid giving any opinions. This goes double for any opinions regarding politics, religion, women, or children. Save that kind of discussion for after you have sex with her twice. At that point she won't disqualify you for opinions you have she doesn't like, but at this point, on the first date pre-sex, she absolutely will hold anything and everything against you..
- Never complain about an ex girlfriend or ex wife. If you are directly asked about why you broke up or got divorced, make a single, simple, summarized, "no big deal" statement, and then re-direct a question back to her.
- Never make any statements that show anger or real frustration on your part.
- Avoid saying anything negative unless you're clearly being funny, and even then, be careful.
- Talk about enjoyable things. Talk about fun stuff you do. Talk about things that are positive or will at least make her smile.
Any time you talk it should be to make a simple, easy, casual, non-controversial, non-judgmental statement, or to ask a question. A first date is not a time for you to just shoot your mouth off and say whatever you want, and too many men treat it as such. Save that kind of casual talk for when you hang out with your guy buddies (or after you've had sex with her twice).
5. Dial back the intimidation factor.
I have noticed that some guys who are great at getting first dates but terrible at getting second ones tend be really intimidating dudes. Either they have a very harsh, strong look that they don't manage well, or they have an angry vibe, or they have a hidden I-hate-women vibe that bleeds through, or they're just really, really intense.
If any of that sounds like it might apply to you, you need to relax, chill, and calm the fuck down. A few things you should try:
- Smile more. Laugh more. Joke around more. Life is really funny.
- Don't argue. Never, ever, ever argue with a woman on a first date. If she says something irrational or insane (and she probably will; she's a girl), then just smile, agree with her, and change the subject. Do you want her to agree with you or do you want to get laid? Sometimes you can only have one. (I choose laid every time.)
- Control your body language to assume a more relaxed demeanor. Lean back. Relax. Relax your facial muscles. Cool down on the eye contact. A guy who gets laid is not a cool guy or a funny guy, but a relaxed guy. Being relaxed shows outcome independence better than any other frame, and outcome independence is the most attractive quality you can demonstrate to women.
If you do the above five items, you will get to second dates more often.
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Tim 2015-03-01 06:55:32
everything here is spot on, but it just goes to show you that getting to sex is a whole lot about appeasement. Sure, you have to have a solid frame, but what I've realized about "alphas" is that at the end of the day, in the modern world, we're just appeasement toys who can't really speak our mind all that much. Back in college ID scare every girl off by doing the opposite of everything in this article. And the thing is, I was actually being more definitive, more decisive, but the girls couldn't handle it.
Blackdragon 2015-03-01 10:28:45
everything here is spot on, but it just goes to show you that getting to sex is a whole lot about appeasementThat's one way to think about it. The way I view it is, since I don't do one night stands, the first and second date are brief investments in appeasement to receive a years-long nonmonogamous relationship that will take place the way *I* see fit pretty much the entire time. Well worth it. But if all you do are one night stands, yes, you'll be spending a lot of time appeasing women. (This is something many older ONS manosphere guys are beginning to complain about.)
Greg 2015-03-01 10:38:08
"A guy who gets laid is not a cool guy or a funny guy, but a relaxed guy." Thank You!
rgz 2015-03-01 13:45:49
This is pretty close to the situation that I'm currently in. I'm not sure I possess enough self awareness to accurately assess how I'm acting on dates though. How do you determine what vibe you give off? When I first started OLD, I got some feedback on the messages I was sending out and it was very helpful. It was easy to do because I can show the messages I've sent to anyone I want. It's hard to get the same type of feedback for dates though. Recently, I found this 'exit survey' that you posted on a forum. I tried it with a few girls but didn't get the responses I wanted. Most went radio silent. Another was annoyed that I would ask such a question and responded to the question rather than the date. www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php?11487-How-To-Determine-*Why*-She-Didn-t-Like-You
rgz 2015-03-01 14:30:09
Also, what do you consider bad, average and good results (in %) in terms on getting second dates after a first date within the context of the system you promote? Of the second dates that guys are getting, what do you consider bad, average and good results (in %) for getting more physical/all the way?
Blackdragon 2015-03-01 16:46:57
How do you determine what vibe you give off?Assessing the vibe might be difficult, but assessing how much you talk and/or how intimidating you are isn't. 1. Is she doing at least 80% of the talking? If not, you're talking too much. 2. Do you often have women give you a cold or nervous vibe? If so, you might be too intimidating. 3. Do you often have women not want to open up to you? If so, you might be too intimidating. 4. Do you encounter A LOT of ASD and/or LMR on a regular basis? If so, you're probably too playerish.
Also, what do you consider bad, average and good results (in %) in terms on getting second dates after a first date within the context of the system you promote?More than 50% of your first dates should result in second dates within the system I discuss unless you have a unique challenge (like you're 300 pounds or something) or you're pursuing women over the age of 33. My general success rate with this, over a prolonged period of time, is higher than 60%. I've had more than one individual blitz that was 100% (but that's not an average over the course of many years/blitzes).
Of the second dates that guys are getting, what do you consider bad, average and good results (in %) for getting more physical/all the way?Again, unless you have a unique challenge or are focusing on women over age 33, your success rates for second dates should be extremely high, as in around 70% or more. Mine is currently way past that. However "success" could mean that you get sexual on the second date but don't actually have full sexual intercourse until the third date. Third date sex is okay in my book as long as dates one and two were very brief and near-zero in cost. Sex on the fourth date or after is a failure in my opinion.
Sebastian 2015-03-01 17:47:52
The most attractive quality a man can demonstrate is confidence, and not outcome independence. Outcome independence appears confident, and it appears like you have enough females to choose from (non needy/desperate), that's why it is attractive to women. But the #1 quality feminine (beautiful) women are attracted to the most is masculinity, and confidence is the primary expression of masculinity.
Sebastian 2015-03-01 17:53:49
As of the dating tips, I don't agree, but then I follow a complete different method of dating girls, and that is to get them into bed as quick as possible. I kiss a woman I date as soon as possible and I also take them home as soon as possible. Often I succeed within the very first hours I get to know the girl, or simply on our first date.
Blackdragon 2015-03-01 18:11:09
I addressed that in the post. If you are running ONS or SNL game, then of course you would have to kiss her on the first date. That advice is only for men who know they're going to have to have a second date before sex. Which represents most men who attempt these things.
Troubadour 2015-03-02 07:30:47
And for guys who never get the first date, there's the fat wife, or xhamster.
Duke 2015-03-02 10:45:38
BD, when you say that having sex after the fourth date is considered a failure to you, are we to understand that it has never happened since the time you started being successful with women? Also do you think it's pretty much impossible or too hard to convert these women into FB MLTRs after that many dates without a bang?
Byron 2015-03-02 11:13:34
Something else to remember is to always keep your hands out of your pockets. According to the women I know, as well as my own experience, a man who keeps his hands in his pockets without a good reason gives off a bad vibe. That vibe is either super nervousness, or he is hiding something that could be dangerous. Neither of which women like. An exception is when your outside and its cold, then its perfectly fine. THe no talking part is absolutely true. I used to be good at getting first dates, but never a second. I talked a lot, I couldn't shut up. But when I tried talking less, and making her do the talking, my success has increased. For guys who are feeling nervous, just think of something relaxing prior to the date, relax, calm down, and be yourself. I see to many guys who try to pretend they are something they are not. Almost never works unless she is drunk. Be yourself, but follow this advice that BD posted as well, and any guy can get laid.
Blackdragon 2015-03-02 11:28:20
BD, when you say that having sex after the fourth date is considered a failure to you, are we to understand that it has never happened since the time you started being successful with women?More or less. In the past several years I can only think of one woman where I had to literally wait four dates for full-on sex. And in that scenario, I considered it a failure on my part. But yes, it was one woman out of very many. Waiting three dates for sex is bad enough; waiting four or more dates for sex is not a win. That's beta male game. (Almost any dork can get laid if he waits for many, many dates and makes all kinds of boyfriendish promises pre-sex.)
do you think it’s pretty much impossible or too hard to convert these women into FB MLTRs after that many dates without a bang?No. I don't think MLTR or FB establishment has much to do with speed to sex. It has more to do with the amount of bullshit, drama, and betaization you'll have to put up with from a woman if you wait that long to have sex with her. Men don't understand that if you play her game and wait 4+ dates for sex, you have started the relationship off on her terms. This doesn't mean MLTR or FB is impossible; it just means you're (likely) going to have to put up with more betaization and similar crap during the relationship.
Something else to remember is to always keep your hands out of your pockets.Agree. Especially for daygame.
The no talking part is absolutely true. I used to be good at getting first dates, but never a second. I talked a lot, I couldn’t shut up. But when I tried talking less, and making her do the talking, my success has increased.Yep. I don't talk much on first dates, but when I screw up and fail to get a second date, it's almost always because I said something she didn't like. In other words, I got too relaxed and talked too much. "JUST SHUT UP" is one of the best pieces of advice I can give a man who wants to have fast sex with a new woman.
Duke 2015-03-02 13:51:39
A little off topic, but there is an interesting thread over at RVF right now where the OP puts up a guide on "how to cheat on your girl like a pro" http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-45506-post-968668.html#pid968668. JJ Roberts even got banned from RVF for dismissing the need to cheat in favor of being openly non-monogamous like you advocate. And your blog was also mentioned by another poster on that thread. There is definitely a rift developing in the manosphere due to differing opinions/viewpoints about seduction.
Blackdragon 2015-03-02 14:13:16
Uh, yeah, that's not a new argument at all. It's the classic Alpha Male 1.0 vs 2.0 disagreement that I've seen raging all over the place for many years. I like Zelscorpion a lot, but the argument stems from two fallacies: - Misunderstanding the difference between MLTR and OLTR. MLTR is polyamory which I don't recommend for society at large, just for Alphas who like to be happy. OLTR is not polyamory and looks nothing like it; it's a discreet open relationship that can and does work for long-term, pair-bonded, mother-father couples. Nonmonogamy doesn't automatically equal polyamory. - The assumption that society would ever embrace polyamory, which it would not. Even if polyamory was widely accepted, the vast majority of humans will still pair-bond. I've discussed those two topics in-depth all over this blog and in my postcasts already. But yeah, let's stay on topic.
RedKnight 2015-03-02 14:13:45
BD, what do you when a woman doesn't want to talk about relationships or sex on the first date? I've been a few dates recently where the woman doesn't want to talk those things, and as you would guess, they tanked.
Blackdragon 2015-03-02 14:17:58
what do you when a woman doesn’t want to talk about relationships or sex on the first date?Then don't push it and talk about something upbeat and fun. Try to find what she really likes to talk about by asking her proving questions, and focus in on that. Also try to segue into sexual topics if you can, though I realize that's a little more difficult if she refuses to talk about relationships. You could also talk about relationships "in general." The vast majority of women DO like talking about man/woman relationships in some capacity. The woman that adamantly refuses to discuss these things is rare.
POB 2015-03-02 14:28:50
I've lost a lay with a 19yo hottie because I had to many political posts on my facebook page. She checked it out and did not like what she saw there...bottom line is I was told point blank she would not go out or have sex with me because of that. So I think the shut up part could also apply to any social media.
Blackdragon 2015-03-02 14:45:43
So I think the shut up part could also apply to any social media.Very, very good point and I forgot to mention that. Thank you. Most women are left-wing liberals and proud of it, so if you have a bunch of blatant right-wing conservative stuff (or even libertarian stuff) plastered all over your Facebook page, and you have a habit of putting women on your FB page pre-sex, you're sexual success rates will suffer. Keep that political stuff off your FB page or don't add women to your FB page until after you've had sex with them twice.
RedKnight 2015-03-02 15:06:55
Thanks for the reply, BD. I had another question. I've encounter some women who seem like they all do is work. For their free time, all they seem to do is watch TV and hang out with friends. They don't really seem want to talk about their school/work and they don't have much to talk about outside of school/work. What do you do in situations like this?
Blackdragon 2015-03-02 23:11:17
I’ve encountered some women who seem like they all do is work. For their free time, all they seem to do is watch TV and hang out with friends. They don’t really seem want to talk about their school/work and they don’t have much to talk about outside of school/work. What do you do in situations like this?You're making excuses. "BD, what if I have a woman on a date who won't talk about relationships OR sex OR work OR school OR fun OR anything?!?" Well, then I guess you're fucked, but the number of first dates I've had is well into the triple digits and I've never encountered a woman like that. Don't make this mentally harder for yourself than it already is.
Brent 2015-03-03 19:08:45
"This is normal, natural, and not something you should get upset about. Dating is a numbers game. It always will be." Hypergamy has been getting worse with the unrelenting advancement of feminism and newfound social media tools. There is no reason to expect this to change anytime soon. Everyone with a static level of game will see their second date % go down. Sure, you can work hard to improve yourself, but at what cost as an increasing number of women are pricing themselves out of the market?
Blackdragon 2015-03-03 19:33:28
Sure, you can work hard to improve yourself, but at what cost as an increasing number of women are pricing themselves out of the market?The answer is that a man should work to improve himself anyway, regardless of women and even if he never has sex ever again for the rest of his life, as I explain here.
POB 2015-03-04 05:47:00
@Brent "Game" is always evolving. I'm pretty sure techniques used a couple of years ago probably don't have the same sucess rate right now. This is why you should learn (at least) some game BUT ALSO improve yourself and be authentic. Nothing beats a better version of yourself 😉
Parade 2015-03-04 20:02:32
"Well, then I guess you’re fucked, but the number of first dates I’ve had is well into the triple digits and I’ve never encountered a woman like that." I've run into women like that, and the answer is to kill the date at that point. If it's a regular pattern it's likely something you're doing, but if it's one date out of the last 100, well, it's more likely that it's her problem. Maybe she thought you were taller than you were in real life, or she just wasn't attracted to you. Or maybe she was just a boring person, where the latest episode of house of cards is the highlight of her life.
lazy guy 2015-03-05 09:33:23
The combination of that photo & caption is funny. Thanks for a laugh. The material in this post is good useful stuff. Thanks. Maybe the combination of 'Have her do most of the talking' and 'Limit the date to about one hour' is a crucial element. It seems that letting her talk your head off for hours (in a date or on the phone) can lead her to take your time & attention for granted, abuse the privilege (by making little effort to keep your interest), view you as being a low value option, make her think she's calling all the shots with you, etc. Defeat. But I guess many men know this and would categorize it with the beta who patiently waits through many dates before any sex happens.
Blackdragon 2015-03-05 10:00:29
The combination of that photo & caption is funny. Thanks for a laugh.Office Space. Greatest movie ever.
Doubter 2015-03-10 07:47:49
Gotta say....tried your technique about no kissing on the first date and it worked like a charm. I threatened to kiss her but never did....actually left her in the friend zone. When she came over for the second time, she knew it would be a sexual and not a boyfriend relationship. In fact, by agreeing to date 2 she was admitting that she wanted sex from me......and this in spite of a lot of good girl talk about not doing that stuff. This is because after the first date, she knows you are a cool guy but isn't sure you like her (she's a woman, remember, they get themselves all confused). You two had a vibe but you didn't go for a kiss.....she is confused. Then when you text her 3-5 days later, the hamster has been in overdrive all that time. And now she is ready to play to your frame....which is sex. Amazing stuff. One of the issues in my game was definitely too much provider frame. As a successful 40-something, I need to give off lots of player vibe so that everyone understands what they are in for. But I take a different opinion on what to do on the date.....as long as you provide humor, being bold and making outrageous statements are fine. Shit eating grins, lots of kino, and teasing are fine and actually stimulate attraction. But this has to be in a lighthearted situation.....if everyone is too serious, anything you say can disqualify you in her mind.in fact, I would say that you have to keep it lighthearted and keep things moving. If this short date turns into a job interview, your second date will be harder to get.
Ron Gordon 2015-10-01 19:34:26
Okay, in the past 3 months using online dating I have had about 6 first meet lays (meaning I met them for the absolute first time after texting and proceeded to sex after drinks). That is the good news. The bad news is that every single one of them will not meet me a second time, and only 1 has even responded to my texts. So, it is pretty tiring because you set up first dates and odds are they won't go to sex, so I am motivated to try your method and find a longer term FB(s). Thank you.
Robere 2016-07-19 19:00:18
No kissing? What about at the very end of the date, a nice soft kiss? If you don't try to kiss her, won't she think you're a wimp? If no kissing, than what you do at the end of the date, hug...no touching and just say "bye"? I think a soft a kiss at the end of the date shows you're not a pussy.
Blackdragon 2016-07-19 20:08:14
No kissing?Not on the first date if you want to get to fast sex on the second date.
What about at the very end of the date, a nice soft kiss?Not if you want to get to fast sex on the second date.
If you don’t try to kiss her, won’t she think you’re a wimp?I've done this with scores of women and I've never had that problem.
If no kissing, than what you do at the end of the date, hug…no touching and just say “bye”?Sometimes I will give a hug and say something like, "I'll text you later." Other times I'll just say goodbye. It depends on the woman and the scenario.
I think a soft a kiss at the end of the date shows you’re not a pussy.Your opinion (and mine) of what you think women might think isn't relevant . The only thing that's relevant is what's proven to work.
Minister 2016-07-20 02:12:40
Not kissing has never worked for me. If I don't kiss her on the first date, usually I will not get a second one. If, one the other hand, I kiss her, more often than not she is sexually interested, hence she is willing to meet me again. But this is me. What works for you doesn't necessarily work on all people.
Blackdragon 2016-07-20 10:44:34
Not kissing has never worked for me. If I don’t kiss her on the first date, usually I will not get a second one. If, one the other hand, I kiss her, more often than not she is sexually interested, hence she is willing to meet me again.This means you are likely not doing all the other things I recommend on the first date, such as kino, sex talk, nonmonogamous EFA, etc. The techniques are all meant to be used together. Doing one without the others may yield spotty results.
What works for you doesn’t necessarily work on all people.My techniques do not require screening so they do indeed work on most women under the age of 33. When you think something doesn't work, use real, tracked numbers to make that determination instead of a gut feeling based on 3 or 4 experiences. Go on 10 first dates where you kino, sex talk, don't act like a beta, and kiss her on the first date. Then go on 10 more first dates where you kino, sex talk, don't act like a beta, and don't kiss her on the first date. Carefully track what happens on all 20 dates on a spreadsheet. I promise you'll get more sex (and faster sex) on the second 10 than you will on the first 10.
Gil Galad 2016-09-15 03:51:40
BD, what do you think of the stereotype about Brazilian girls: "If you don't attempt a kiss within an hour of hitting on her/of a date, she'll assume you're not interested and you'll lose the lay" ? Have you dated enough Brazilian girls to safely dismiss the idea ? (More generally speaking): I live in France a big part of the year, and I keep wondering if cultural specifics of this country's people (or of the many nationalities found here, including Brazilian) might do me a disservice if I stick to the no-kiss-on-first-date rule.
Blackdragon 2016-09-15 10:49:35
BD, what do you think of the stereotype about Brazilian girls: “If you don’t attempt a kiss within an hour of hitting on her/of a date, she’ll assume you’re not interested and you’ll lose the lay” ? Have you dated enough Brazilian girls to safely dismiss the idea ?Actually, I have dated a few Brazilian women (not many, just a few) and that indeed seems to be the case. I still had sex with one of them, but she was bewildered that I didn't try to nail her on the first date. "I thought you didn't like me," she said. The problem is you're going to run into all the same ASD and bullshit if you try to have sex with a Brazilian on a first date. It not like they're super easy (though I agree they're easier than most Western women). In my opinion that first-date-lay crap takes too much time and effort, but feel free to make up your own mind.
Rezzy 2016-09-19 21:04:09
If you pick up a bartender you've chatted with for an hour, would you consider the first date outside the bar to be a day 1 or a day 2, considering she's already seen you and started to like you a bit?
Blackdragon 2016-09-20 22:06:51
If you pick up a bartender you’ve chatted with for an hour, would you consider the first date outside the bar to be a day 1 or a day 2, considering she’s already seen you and started to like you a bit?If the first hour was at her work, I would not consider that a first date. If it wasn't, I would.
Rezzy 2016-09-24 10:13:52
Solid insight. Thank you.
Jack 2016-10-11 18:09:32
I was at a pub last weekend, where I met a girl I haven't seen for over two years. She’s 26 and I am 24. Our past relationship has been nothing more than I know who she is, and she know who I am. The past 6 months she's been commenting and liking everything I put on social media and from the looks of her comment I knew that she has a high attraction level for me. I sat there chilled back talking to another girl when I got a text from her "OMG, I see you... I'm at the same bar" I sent "Oh really?" And then I saw her and waived her over. We hit it off right away, we danced, kissed passionately and held each other tight. Effortless and I gauged her attraction level right on the spot. Since we kissed and got that close I was going to go for the lay on our first date. As the night went on I got a little too much to drink and dozed off. The sleepiness struck me real bad, and I felt more like going home and hitting the sack. My bad. She lives about a 30 min drive from the bar, her friends ordered a taxi together with her at the end of the night. There was an awkward moment where we just stood outside the bar as they were waiting for the taxi to arrive, staring at each other not saying much. I was drunk, but I remembered this. It was as she was waiting for me to invite myself to come with her. Haha! I went straight home and slept like a king, woke up the next day thinking that it was a damn cool girl and it shouldn't have ended that way. I will set a date with her, but how should I go about recovering from the ending of the night that went sideways?
Jack 2016-10-11 18:39:10
Follow up comment on the case: I think where I am getting at is how to recover when it goes a little sideways in a non approval seeking way?
Blackdragon 2016-10-12 03:14:22
I was at a pub last weekend, where I met a girl I haven’t seen for over two years.https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/
Jack 2016-10-12 10:49:52
Tomas 2016-11-14 03:44:43
Hello BD, thank you, you are the first who states it clearly about not kissing! I'd like to make my comment on not kissing on the first (non-sexual) date. I confirm your advice: DON'T KISS ON THE FIRST DATE. I wouldn't mind a small kiss on meeting or parting when that's your cultural habit. I mean full, passionate kissing. During my dating experience, I was learning how to move faster, smoother, more confidently, more sexually. And I also explored how quickly I can kiss a woman on the first date. When a woman likes you, you can kiss her well within an hour. Sometimes even within 10 minutes. And it's not some stolen kiss, she wants to be kissed and goes for it. She might even initiate make-out. One woman was so turned on that she sucked my dick in the bathroom. It looks very impressive for a coffee date, doesn't it... ? Those women were clearly attracted to me, kissed me passionately and some of them got aroused. However, there was one frustrating thing. I couldn't get even a second date with them! There were exceptions, but say 90% of those women stopped all communication within following days! I find that the problem was the passionate kissing, which is actually part of sexual escalation. There are two things that a woman realizes after such "magical" date. First, if you led her so quickly to kissing and arousal without knowing each other, then you must be a player (who wants only sex). Second, the logical next step after kissing is sex, preferably on the second date. That means, her ASD shoots over the roof and the game is over. After this experience, I stopped passionate kissing on the first date and everything got back to normal. Thank you BD..... Tomas L
Mickey Singh 2017-01-26 23:54:23
I need help BD! im on dates with european girls and there personality is weird! they dont like talking much they talk more seriously and less american ish! I already talked about every topic about europe/their country vs american culture topics! i ran out of stuff! any tips please!!!
Blackdragon 2017-01-27 12:15:27
You can't "run out of topics," since every first date is a new girl. European girls are just as easy as American girls. In many countries (particularly in the south) they're easier.
Mickey Singh 2017-01-27 23:04:47
thx for reply! i mean like how do i get them to talk more? i ask questions with the same girl i go on dates with , but she wont talk much? thx BD
K 2017-01-28 10:39:54
Mickey, where in Europe are you exactly? Two factors that may be in play are i) language (she may not be 100% comfortable speaking English, even if the level of her English is high) ii) cultural difference - I can hardly speak for all Europeans but generally speaking (and in my experience), Europeans do much less small talk than Americans, especially at the beginning of an acquaintance. I´ve made this experience in business context too, could give you more detail if you wish. But I guess what you want is advice on how to get the girl you´re seeing talk more... Can you gauge her attraction for you? Have you been able to create rapport? Do you encourage her to speak about herself, tell you about her interests? But in the end you could also find that you and her don´t have much in common...
Matt 2017-02-28 13:17:15
Hey BD, ran into a problem recently where the girl would go in for the kiss on the first date without me meaning for it to happen. It happens either when I hug her goodbye or our faces are just too close. Obviously avoiding it just makes it awkward so should I just not hug or get too close anymore? Or does it not really matter if it's her doing it? Thanks for all the helpful stuff you've got on here by the way.
Blackdragon 2017-02-28 22:09:47
Yes, it matters, regardless if she initiates or you do.
juliano 2018-06-08 15:19:20
what if I kiss her on the first AND second date?
McKale 2019-04-18 18:08:59
Hey BD, This is kind of a weird question, but you say not to text them immediately after a first date as that looks needy. However, what if at the end of the first date, she mentions wanting a second date? When this happens it catches me off-guard and I semi-blow off the question. Would you still recommend waiting 1-2 days?
John 2019-12-31 07:23:15
Hey BD, What if it's an 18-20 year old that strongly initiates the kiss mid-way through the date after deep kino. Should I calmly/playfully stop her and make a witty comment? Thanks.
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