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Women’s Greatest Problem: The Myth of the Submissive Alpha Male
-By Caleb Jones
When looking to get a long-term boyfriend or husband, modern day women have only two options:
1. Get a beta male who will obey her and conform to her Disney image of dating and marriage, but who will also eventually bore the shit out of her.
2. Get an Alpha Male who will never bore her and always keep her attracted, but who will eventually infuriate her by not following orders and/or not conforming to her feminine, Societal Programming-based Disney desires.
If she doesn’t like either of those two options, she can always choose a third one:
3. Stay single and alone for the rest of her life, occasionally getting short-term sex and companionship when needed, but never actually pair-bond with one long-term guy.
Those are her only three options, at least in terms of getting into a long-term (3+ years) relationship or marriage with a man. There is no other option beyond those three. Those three are all she gets. She must pick one.
Her problem? She hates all three of those options. She doesn’t want any of them.
Be a with a man who bores her? Unacceptable. Women hate being bored, and have a much lower boredom tolerance than men. Women would rather be unhappy, alone, or in a bad relationship than be bored.
Be with man who refuses to take her out on fancy dinner dates, or doesn’t take out the trash when he’s ordered, or who demands a prenup, or who has sex with other women on the side? Aw, hell no! She’s a Strong Independent Woman™, dammit! No man is going to treat her with disrespect! Her husband must be a Gentleman™ who Treats Her Like A Lady™.
Stay single for the rest of her life? Screw that! That directly opposes damn near all of her Societal Programming and Obsolete Biological Wiring. She doesn’t want to be the crazy cat lady down the street she used to make fun of when she was young and pretty in her early 20s.
All three of the only options available to the modern day woman, she hates.
So what does she do?
Well, she’s a woman. This means:
A) She wants everything even if it’s impossible, and
B) She was raised to use woman logic to make most of her major life decisions.
Therefore, she simply invents a new fourth fantasy option out of thin air. This fourth option does not exist in real life. It’s pure fiction, but she doesn’t care. She vigorously pursues it anyway.
This fourth fantasy option is to go out and find a type of man that doesn’t exist in the real world. This unicorn is called the Submissive Alpha Male. The fourth option looks something like this:
I want a man who is strong, confident, badass, successful, take-charge, and masculine. He needs to be a guy who kicks ass and turns me on. BUT! He also needs to treat me like a lady, do what he’s told, take out the trash, always be faithful, treat me with respect, and kiss my ass.
That’s what today’s woman wants. However, little does she realize she’s just described a man who does not exist.
As I have discussed in detail in my books and blogs, men are Alphas or betas. One or the other. They cannot be both. It’s impossible. Granted, there are “nicer” Alphas, but they’re still Alphas. There are slightly more confident betas, but they’re still betas. A man is still Alpha or beta, with all the pros and cons those two categories entail.
A man who is strong, confident, badass, successful, and masculine is an Alpha Male. This man is not going to follow a woman’s orders, at least not for the long term. This man is going to eventually cheat on her, even if he promises not to. This man is not going to (long term) conform to her perfect Cinderella marriage/relationship fantasies, again, even if he initially promises he will. Yes, he may initially (and reluctantly) go along with things like paying for fancy dates, marriage, and/or sexual monogamy in the short therm. Yet later he’ll refuse to obey orders, or cheat on her, or treat her like shit, or whatever.
On the other side of the coin, a man who treats a woman “like a lady,” does whatever a woman wants, showers her with money, cheerfully agrees to whatever relationship aspects or parameters she demands, does what he’s told whenever ordered, and constantly kisses her ass is, a beta male. This man is not going to be a strong, tough, take-charge, badass, masculine dude. This guy is not going to be dominant during sex. He’s going to be a nice guy, not a badass. Unlike the Alpha, he will indeed conform to all of her relationship/marriage fantasies and largely stick with them, but he’s not going to be exciting or maintain a strongly attractive, masculine personality.
It’s Alpha or beta, Sweetie. One or the other. You can’t have both inside the same man. Fantasize all you want, you will never, ever, EVER find a man who is both of those things. You going to have to either pick one of those two and put up with the downsides of each, or stay single for the rest of your life.
Do women acknowledge this? No. Instead, they go on first date, after first date, after first date, looking for Mr. Unicorn Man. They have relationship, after relationship, after relationship, looking for Mr. Submissive Alpha Male.
Women spend DECADES of their lives doing this. I've seen them do it. I'm sure you have too. And for some bizarre reason, they never find this guy.
I wonder why?
Because he doesn’t exist, Darling.
If you try to explain to a woman that the Submissive Alpha Male doesn’t exist, women huff and puff and tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about, and if they just go on enough first dates and have enough boyfriends, eventually they’ll find him. He’s Out There Somewhere™, waiting for me. You’ll see, you’ll see!
Yes, I do see. I see millions of women wasting their 20s, 30s, and often much of their 40s looking for Mr. Unicorn Man only to finally and angrily surrender for a beta or Alpha in their late 40s or early 50s. By then, many of them finally understand that they wasted their lives looking for something that wasn’t real.
Regardless, even these women don’t tell any of the younger women this. Instead, they perpetuate the Submissive Alpha Male fantasy. Just keep looking, they tell younger women, he’s out there somewhere, don't worry, you're a good person, so someday you’ll find him. Mr. Unicorn Man, The Tough Masculine Badass Who Follows Your Orders and Never Cheats On You™.
And so the cycle of pain and suffering continues.
One Alternate, Realistic Option
There is one alternate and realistic option where a woman can have both the Disney and obedience of the beta male along with the excitement and passion of the Alpha Male. Have an OLTR Marriage with a beta male and then have sex with Alphas on the side. Many women do this in normal "monogamous" marriage anyway, marrying a pussy beta and then cheating on him with Alphas.
Cheating is messy though, so a much better option is to go the OLTR route. A woman of even moderate physical appearance can quite easily find a beta male who will kiss her ass and pay her bills, and then she can tell him she’s going to discreetly get a little Alpha cock on the side. Betas, being men, won’t like that of course, but they will agree to it. Betas will agree to anything to keep their girl. That’s part of what makes them betas (and why more picky or dominant women like them so much).
I’ve suggested this option to many women I know in my social and work life. As you might imagine, they cringe when I suggest it. It conflicts with too much feminine Societal Programming. Someday women will see the light on this, since this really is a viable option, but I guess today is not that day. The good news is that I have seen a noticeable upswing in the amount of women who are cool with long-term open relationships over the last 10 years or so. The trend is encouraging.
(You may be wondering why I'm not suggesting a woman marry (or cohabit with) an Alpha Male and go have sex with betas on the side. That's because it's not the same thing. The benefits a woman receives from a beta male are all non-sexual, so having a beta male or two “on the side” doesn’t make a lot of sense. Though I'm sure one could configure any type of relationship where something like this might work, such as being with an Alpha but getting sex from really good-looking betas on the side.)
Forward this post to any woman you know who is still trying to pursue Mr. Unicorn Man. Maybe you can help save a few women from a lifetime of wasted disappointment.
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RPSigmaStigma 2015-06-25 05:35:16
I think you're missing a very real, viable option for women: marry am alpha and accept him sleeping with other women. This happens regularly with celebrities, politicians, CEOs, etc. Most women who marry highly successful alphas silently accept that he's going to cheat, and just hope he can keep it discreet. Some women even don't mind if it's in the open. George Clooney has an arrangement like this. And do you really think Hillary Clinton didn't know how much of a player she married? I don't see why the only option is to marry a beta fuck alphas on the side.
Ashwin 2015-06-25 05:46:55
Before Marriage = Fuck one Alpha, Keep several Beta Orbiters. After Marriage = Keep one Beta Orbiter, Fuck several Alphas. Sexually, that makes marriage look like a good deal. 🙂 BD, a similar post on the Male Myth of Unicorn Woman would be very welcome. Especially in the same structure as this post - what they want, whats available, whats mythical, what are the best options. That'll bring a lot of your ideas in one easy-to-relate-with post.
Piston 2015-06-25 05:56:14
One of your best posts ever. Thanks for articulating this so well.
CSR 2015-06-25 06:14:58
Ain't no alpha bucks out there except in 50 shades of bullshit or similar fantasies. That's why women absolutely love those stories. Not only what you're saying here is true. It's important to notice that even HB10's can not possibly afford a unicorn, only an alpha that will agree to monogamy for the first part of the relationship at most. Men should seriously begin to question long term sexual monogamy as the default setting for LTRs. Men are the most affected by it because women's sexuality is more aligned to serial monogamy. But men? No way on Earth. Never, ever, promise monogamy even if you don't actually fuck other women on the side.
Tony 2015-06-25 06:16:41
I wonder how much women know about what attracts them to a man. The fact that they think attraction is some magical, random thing makes this problem a lot worse. It makes perfect sense to say "I want a man I'm attracted to who acts like a beta" if you don't know strong, masculine guys are what you're attracted to. I was explaining this exact thing to a girl I was dating once. She was obviously attracted to me, but didn't see me as husband material (I wonder why). When I told her she would have to marry a beta she wasn't attracted to she said "Not everybody views it in terms of alphas and betas." Oh well, at least I know she'll be an easy source of sex for a while as long as she doesn't move away.
Al 2015-06-25 06:42:56
It is a FACT that a woman wants an alpha male to start with, but this threatens her nesting instinct. So, she starts the process of betaisation; she will be successful in this very often and then finds that she is bored stupid. My favorite lady STILL wants to find the perfect "life partner". She is 45, got married very young the first time and that lasted 12 years. The husband did not turn beta so she left (albeit she would have done in any event). Now, I don't stand in her way when it comes to her looking for what she wants. In fact I encourage it. Because it allows her to learn that "he" doesn't exist. I do talk to her though, gently, about her failed relationships (and mine). We were talking the other night and while she agreed that her first marriage turned into one without sex, without going out, without any proper communication, she actually said, "But being married for me was right. I loved being married. We used to sit and look at our wedding rings together and look back on the wedding" etc. etc. etc. So even after failure, being married was still right for her. AND she wants to do it again!!! Knowing that in all probability it won't work. She tried to lock me down. I won't budge and she knows it. She has met other men and after a few months, back she comes. I know that not all women are like this but most of them are. The frightening thing is, this woman is intelligent, smart, educated and generally realistic. She is also independent in that she does not need a provider. But she still goes in search of the man who does not exist. Very sad. 🙁
Al 2015-06-25 07:13:07
In fact, as BD has pointed out elsewhere in this blog, it's more about the bloody wedding or "getting married" than anything else! With no regard to what follows. God save us. 😡
Bobby 2015-06-25 08:05:28
The most important thing I have learned from this blog (and this post is another reminder) is how almost every woman you meet wants to change you at some point. It doesn't take very long before they start trying to turn you into their bitch. (Thank you BD. I went many years without giving this much thought). There's a woman in her early 40's I see from time to time. She's married, but horny as hell.. she comes to me for sex when she wants it. Lately, she has started a new business venture and really wants me to join her company in one way or another. I have told her that her line of work doesn't interest me, and doesn't make sense for me financially. I have come to realize that her nagging me about this has nothing to do with her business or making money; she just wants to see if she can get me to do this even though it's not a good idea for me. She'll even say things like "this is important to me, so I think you should take the time to take it more seriously, etc.". The whole thing is completely illogical. She wants me to do as I'm told, even though I'm only a guy she fucks on the side. I have refused (this, and many other smaller requests)... and will be telling her to take a hike if she doesn't stop this asap.
JoshuaTenor 2015-06-25 09:26:28
Great article as usual BD. Reading it brought up a question for me though. This may be a bit beside the point, but if you don't mind, I would like your opinion. Thing is, I'm not sure whether I qualify as Alpha or Beta. I actually feel like I have a few qualities from both sides. In my younger years I would have easily described myself as Beta but as I've gotten older, I have gained confidence, have become more outcome independent, and have gotten all around better in dealing with women. I wouldn't really consider myself as "exuding confidence" or as being a "bad ass". By nature I am more the quiet relaxed type. And I am actually very nice, although I have eased up on the niceness from my younger days. Over time I have disposed of being needy, have stopped bending to all a woman's whims, and have learned to put my foot down when absolutely necessary, but I do try to take the woman's feelings into consideration as much as possible until it encroaches too much onto my own freedom. And the hard part to admit is (just as you have stated above) it really does seem like eventually I tend to cheat. I'm not sure what category I fit into, I can tell you that at different phases of my life, probably earlier on, I have been the "boring guy" too eager to please, and later, the guy who "won't behave and conform to the rules". So my question is, what category am I in? Can a guy change categories or drift in between?
CrabRangoon 2015-06-25 11:04:22
Another solid post BD. I see this all the time in my own circle of friends. Girls that married the beta and are now bored to tears with him and can't even stand touching him. They outwardly tell me this without hesitation. In fact, I've slept with a couple of these girls that are looking for a good no strings bang and they keep coming back for more, no guilt. They tell me some time after we first had sex that they are still married and their husband's a real nice guy but blah blah... It's just amusing to see all this stuff play out in the real world for those who doubt it and continue to live in la-la land.
CrabRangoon 2015-06-25 11:16:52
@JoshuaTenor You sound very similar to myself. I used to be the "nice guy" in my younger days then had a bit of an epiphany in my mid 30's. I didn't go full tilt player a-hole but just put myself first and stopped trying to cater to women or pedestalizing them. I'm also pretty laid back and still enjoy the company of women but don't make it the main focus anymore. I've found I'm much less stressed and happier and attract many more girls than ever before, the great irony of it all. Aloof game works really well-forget "negs" and all that PUA crap. Just live an interesting life and women will follow.
Alex 2015-06-25 11:34:02
I think you misunderstand too many men. Assume I'm the most beta guy you'd ever meet, yet I still have a brain. What's in it for me to marry a chick that fucks others on the side, given the legal penalties I assume if I marry? Women age fast, and nothing is more boring than old pu**y. Hell, many men get sick of even good looking women once they lay them for a few months. Better I save up my beta bucks, build a little kingdom just for myself without legal entanglements. Meantime I either bang without marrying, or if I'm hideous looking I pay for hookers of a much higher caliber than I could normally pull.
Blackdragon 2015-06-25 12:12:46
Thing is, I’m not sure whether I qualify as Alpha or Beta. I actually feel like I have a few qualities from both sides.Most men have qualities from both sides. That doesn't mean they're neither. Based on your brief description you are a more confident beta.
Can a guy change categories or drift in between?Change categories? Yes. I used to be a confident beta, now I'm Alpha. Can he drift between? No. He can pretend for a while but that's not the same thing. I could pretend I'm a duck for a few hours; that doesn't make me a duck.
Blackdragon 2015-06-25 12:16:29
I think you’re missing a very real, viable option for women: marry am alpha and accept him sleeping with other women. This happens regularly with celebrities, politicians, CEOs, etc.You're absolutely right and I've discussed that many times on this blog before. Women SHOULD choose that option. No question. But women don't. The article was describing most normal people. Most women out there aren't going to tolerate it *long-term*. Most men, including most Alphas, are not celebrities or multimillionaires, thus most women won't be marrying these kinds of men. Moreover, as I've have demonstrated many times before, in many cases even those women you're referring to *eventually* get pissed off about this and leave their Alphas (coughMariaShrivercough, coughKateHolmescough). However, as I said in the article, more and more women are getting cool with this concept. The trend is promising.
BD, a similar post on the Male Myth of Unicorn Woman would be very welcome.It's already on the list. 🙂
When I told her she would have to marry a beta she wasn’t attracted to she said “Not everybody views it in terms of alphas and betas.”Exactly. Not only do many women not understand, the bigger problem is that they don't WANT to understand. They don't even want to hear it. They'd rather waste their lives looking for a unicorn.
I have come to realize that her nagging me about this has nothing to do with her business or making money; she just wants to see if she can get me to do this even though it’s not a good idea for me. She’ll even say things like “this is important to me, so I think you should take the time to take it more seriously, etc.”. The whole thing is completely illogical.Yep. Classic betaization. Very normal.
What’s in it for me to marry a chick that fucks others on the side, given the legal penalties I assume if I marry?Not sure what that has to do with the conversation, but the short answer is less unhappiness and drama, since you won't have to A) worry about what she's doing all the time, B) constantly spend time monitoring her behavior and C) getting pissed off at her if she breaks your rules, which she will, because that's what girls do. Not to mention D) you get to fuck all the other women on the side you want without having to sneak around and hide it like a pussy. And as I have said a thousand times, you shouldn't legally marry a woman anyway (unless you like drama and problems). Legal marriage is problem number one, irrelevant of sexual monogamy.
Better I save up my beta bucks, build a little kingdom just for myself without legal entanglements. Meantime I either bang without marryingNOW yer talkin'!
themaster 2015-06-25 12:23:23
There are Alpha men worldwide that have harems or multiple wives. It has been done for centuries and just because American men don't demand what's natural in a relationship and women refuse consciously because of SP, instinctually they know and desire such setups. The harem/wives competing for the Alpha males attention alone will make them wet and be a constant challenge. The HBO show Big Love shows some of the dynamic in an American context. It can be executed even in America at least as a harem or poly marriage. American Alphas just don't execute such relationships because societies backlash would be ferocious and detrimental to their finances from a PR / Society standpoint. And to many betas run the political and institutions of law to allow such marriages to be legal.
Blackdragon 2015-06-25 12:27:30
There are Alpha men worldwide that have harems or multiple wives....It can be executed even in America at least as a harem or poly marriage.Correct!
Greg 2015-06-25 13:03:57
I think you're missing the point. Looking for the submissive alpha keeps them engaged, keeps them dreaming, they get a kick out of it. It's the path of least resistance and it's fun for them with it's highs and lows. You propose a rational approach which takes the "fun" out of it. That's why they defend their point of view, they don't really want an alternative, they want to be able to dream and keep looking. Why do they teach younger women to go the same way? Maybe because they intuitively know that is what younger women want to hear, or they're just spewing out emotional advice bullcrap because it sounds good.
RecepH 2015-06-25 13:22:57
Great post, thank you. I do not see how, as you state as a distant possibility in the paragraph before the last, a woman could get to marry an alpha who lets her fuck around. Yes, by your definition, an Alpha 2.0 would not care, while an Alpha 1.0 would go ballistic. But then, an Alpha 2.0 would not wed her either. Am I missing something? I would never, ever agree to have the woman I choose to get entangled with beyond an OLTR fuck around. All else be damned, I'd dump her ass on the spot. It's not even the jealousy; the moment I let her CROSS THE BOUNDARY I SET she will lose respect, and it's all downhill from there. And no, I've never been married, so there's that.
POB 2015-06-25 13:28:35
I'll bookmark this thread for future references. Any woman that asks me why I am who I am will get a copy 😉 I don't know if it's off topic, but IMO Alpha 1.0s NRE has also much to do with it. Some of them temporarily become such unicorns when they find The Girl of Their Dreams™ which probably is an encouraging factor for the whole thing. Awesome post!
Blackdragon 2015-06-25 14:53:48
I think you’re missing the point. Looking for the submissive alpha keeps them engaged, keeps them dreaming, they get a kick out of it.No, I get it. They indeed get a kick out of it...until they break up, or get divorced, or get cheated on, or get pissed off, or get bored. Then they're extremely unhappy.
It’s the path of least resistance and it’s fun for them with it’s highs and lows.Now you're correct. It's about highs and lows for women. Sadly.
That’s why they defend their point of view, they don’t really want an alternative, they want to be able to dream and keep looking.Correct! They want to keep looking and keep complaining about it, in true female fashion.
Why do they teach younger women to go the same way? Maybe because they intuitively know that is what younger women want to hear, or they’re just spewing out emotional advice bullcrap because it sounds good.Correct again. That's why they do it. My point is that it's harmful.
I do not see how, as you state as a distant possibility in the paragraph before the last, a woman could get to marry an alpha who lets her fuck around.She could only do it in an OLTR marriage with an Alpha Male 2.0, which would not be the standard Disney definition of marriage. So in that respect, you're correct.
IMO Alpha 1.0s NRE has also much to do with it. Some of them temporarily become such unicorns when they find The Girl of Their Dreams™ which probably is an encouraging factor for the whole thing.Close, but the more accurate explanation there is that most Alpha Male 1.0s lie to women and promise Eternal Monogamy™ even when these guys know damn well (deep down) that they'll be cheating on her at some some point. Women seeking Mr. Unicorn Man shut off their brains and eat that shit up when they hear it. Then yeah, everything is great until the guy cheats or strays from the program, which of course as an Alpha he will. I describe that exact process in detail in my Podcast #4. That's one area where women and many Alpha Male 1.0s are the same...they seek temporary happiness, ups and downs. If it all blows up in their faces later, they don't really care. At least they're happy "now."
Al 2015-06-25 21:51:16
@ BD Maybe you can explain this for me, because I can't fathom it. You have a way with words with which you may be able to get through. As in my comment above, my best friend ever is independent. I could, if not very careful, get serious oneitis for this one but I manage to maintain my frame. We have the very best of times together. She says, and I quote, that I do things for her that no one else can. (I do realise that this is an accident of chemistry and nothing to do with my abilities.) We don't live together and never will. There is no need. (She has asked me to marry her or move in with her) She does spend the night here now and again and I allow it because she loves sex in the morning and does a good breakfast and doesn't leave a mess (not in the kitchen anyway!) 😀 We are both very happy when together. But every so often she goes off in search of mythical man. She has always come back, be it months, weeks or days later. So what drives her? Do you know? Is it all just SP and Disney? Or is there something more like biology? Sorry if you have already answered this elsewhere.
POB 2015-06-26 07:42:28
Close, but the more accurate explanation there is that most Alpha Male 1.0s lie to women and promise Eternal Monogamy™ even when these guys know damn well (deep down) that they’ll be cheating on her at some some point.Correct, and I'm guilty as charged of behaving like that in the past. Although like a good honest serial monogamist I've never cheated...just axed the whole thing before it came down to it (don't know what's worse, really).
That’s one area where women and many Alpha Male 1.0s are the same…they seek temporary happiness, ups and downs. If it all blows up in their faces later, they don’t really care.This is why I think it's so damn important to hammer the subject over and over again. Long-term happiness >>>> short-term fantasies. I'm still amazed that smart intelligent successful men keep falling for these SP fairy tales.
JJ Roberts 2015-06-26 07:45:38
Yes this is a form what what I called Schizokardia A woman wanting the "bad boy" who is a good boy just for her The male equivalent is a man wanting a "good girl" who is a bad girl in bed just for him.
Blackdragon 2015-06-26 11:46:17
So what drives her? Do you know? Is it all just SP and Disney? Or is there something more like biology?Mostly OBW (Obsolete Biological Wiring) but a lot of SP too. She's wired to want a man who will "take care of her," meaning move in with her, pay her bills, protect her, etc. SP also reinforces this and adds in things like "be with a man who does what he's told because you're a Strong Independent Woman™." Conformity is also a strong SP-based need; she sees her girlfriends/sisters/co-workers her age with husbands and wants to be like them on some level (regardless if these women are actually happy, when stats and surveys show most of them are not). The problem for us men is he's also biologically wired to get sexually bored with that same man after about 3 years. What she wants is guaranteed to make her unhappy later. But that's part of being a woman.
Al 2015-06-26 11:51:40
@BD Thank you for your reply. Very timely! I've just had the, "Where do you see us going" text. 🙁 I replied that she is allowed to do whatever she likes and that I am here if she wants me. So, lol, it is back to no contact, until she gets in touch, which she will. Hard lessons aren't they. This is a great post BD, as usual. It helps me to not get bent out of shape. 🙂
hislyonesse 2015-06-26 15:49:30
"I think you’re missing a very real, viable option for women: marry am alpha and accept him sleeping with other women. This happens regularly with celebrities, politicians, CEOs, etc. Most women who marry highly successful alphas silently accept that he’s going to cheat, and just hope he can keep it discreet." I did this and wouldn't have it any other way. I even sometimes fully support him with the other women and don't care about the discreet part as I want to know every detail otherwise my mind makes situations worse than they really are. Overall, with alphas, the "other woman" part is the biggest drawback, but if you can get a new perspective on it, find a way to make it positive it helps to reprogram your mind to seeing non-monogamy as no big deal. After having a terrible experience with option 1 and realizing that option 3 was not an option, being with an alpha and its sterotypical drawbacks are nothing. Whats crazy and so countercultural is I would rather be with the alpha and hearing about his other woman than stuck in a lifeless, boring, passionless relationship with a beta. Most women would think that is nuts and I did too for the longest time until you get real about what your options are.
eldm 2015-06-26 17:24:41
So how did your daughter react when you sat her down and went through her options with her?
Bluecheer23 2015-06-26 17:35:57
Great post. What is Rollo Tomosi?
Blackdragon 2015-06-26 17:43:50
I did this and wouldn’t have it any other way.I just had a conversation TODAY with a woman I just started seeing about how unrealistic it is to get monogamously married and expect no one to cheat for 47 years. She said, "Yeah, I know, many of my friends have open marriages." This would NEVER have happened back in 2007 when I started dating women like this. Back then, a woman would have sputtered and become insulted and then I would have never heard from her again. The tide is finally turning.
So how did your daughter react when you sat her down and went through her options with her?I wrote her this letter and she said she wants an Alpha, knowing the downsides.
Jordie 2015-06-26 23:46:06
Close, but the more accurate explanation there is that most Alpha Male 1.0s lie to women and promise Eternal Monogamy™ even when these guys know damn well (deep down) that they’ll be cheating on her at some some point.This is why, as a female, I picked option 3. I knew since high school I was going to go this route. If I want kids, I'll go the adoption or sperm bank route. Luckily, I've also kept my virginity, so I've learned how to deal with the sexual urges pretty well.
Al 2015-06-27 01:07:09
After having a terrible experience with option 1 and realizing that option 3 was not an option, being with an alpha and its stereotypical drawbacks are nothing. Whats crazy and so counter-cultural is I would rather be with the alpha and hearing about his other woman than stuck in a lifeless, boring, passionless relationship with a beta. Most women would think that is nuts and I did too for the longest time until you get real about what your options are.Interesting to hear this. When my main lady disappears for a while, in search of her mythical man, when she comes back, she tells me about betas she has wound up with; how boring, etc., most of whom she doesn't even bother to sleep with (I always know if she has, she can't hide it, but it is rare) and if she does, they don't make her cum or there just aren't any sparks at all. Or she meets an alpha who wants to control her. The thing is, when she and I are "together" we are practically monogamous anyway, as she is so horny, 4 times a week with her leaves me needing some rest!! I only hook up elsewhere when she has done a runner. If she would take the pressure off about the living together thing, I might even be monogamous! Not that I'd ever promise it. Thanks for your input. 🙂
Jack Outside the Box 2015-06-27 02:18:43
Luckily, I’ve also kept my virginity, so I’ve learned how to deal with the sexual urges pretty well.Why "luckily?" Why would you deny yourself sex like this? Are you a masochist?
Jack Outside the Box 2015-06-27 02:22:37
she said she wants an Alpha, knowing the downsides.An alpha 2.0, right? Also (and it's fine if you don't want to answer this), what is her attitude towards sex? Is she a prude? A slut shamer? A high sex drive girl? Is she still a virgin? What is her current level of sexual experience? Just curious.
Jordie 2015-06-27 10:48:42
Why “luckily?” Why would you deny yourself sex like this? Are you a masochist?Because it allows me to focus on other things rather than trying to find a guy to have sex with every time I have the urge. I may have some masochistic tendencies, but that doesn't really come into play here.
Blackdragon 2015-06-27 13:53:20
Why “luckily?” Why would you deny yourself sex like this? Are you a masochist?She already answered your question: she's a virgin. If she wasn't she wouldn't be doing this. When you're a virgin it's very easy to maintain a long habit of not having sex. It's outside of your comfort zone and you have no idea what you're missing. I see guy virgins do this all the time.
An alpha 2.0, right?My daughter is 17 years old, so she hasn't made those distinctions nor cares. I can only watch and see what she does as she gets older.
Also (and it’s fine if you don’t want to answer this), what is her attitude towards sex?She's horny and into guys just like any teenage girl, but she's still a virgin (as far as I know, and I likely would know since her and I are very close) because A) she's an extremely introverted homebody and B) she's a HARDCORE Type 2 VYW and utterly hates teenage boys. She wants a boyfriend who is over 30, but knows he'll risk jail time if she dates any now. So she's waiting to turn 18 so she'll be legal, then she's going to "run right out and get a hot 30 year old boyfriend." Is this what she'll actually do? Who knows? She's a teenage girl so her wants/desires can and will change often. She's going to be moving in with me full-time in a few months, just for about 10 months or so. Should be interesting.
Al 2015-06-27 19:11:01
The more I think on this subject (maybe I should stop thinking! 🙂 but this post and my experiences over the last few years have been SUCH an eye opener) there may be one more contributing factor: Entitlement! The better presented a woman is (and knowing that she is) the more she expects in return. She knows that she is very attractive, slim, fit, dressed well, has immaculate hygiene and is like dynamite in the bedroom and gives of herself fully. She does this to attract her alpha (and because she loves sex.) But having "given" sex, acts like men are the only ones that benefit, not her, and thinks this will produce a unicorn male as if by magic. "I fuck you, I am the best thing in the world, therefore I am entitled to an alpha and a beta male in one body who must appear in either form depending what mood I'm in." I was once told that I didn't measure up to expectations because I only ticked 95% of the boxes. I thought this was a very high score. Apparently it has to be 100% 😀 As another commentator said, once you know what is going on, it is highly amusing, and educational, to watch it being acted out in the real world.
rgz 2015-06-27 21:30:15
You sound very similar to myself. I used to be the “nice guy” in my younger days then had a bit of an epiphany in my mid 30’s. I didn’t go full tilt player a-hole but just put myself first and stopped trying to cater to women or pedestalizing them. I’m also pretty laid back and still enjoy the company of women but don’t make it the main focus anymore. I’ve found I’m much less stressed and happier and attract many more girls than ever before, the great irony of it all.You said this guy sounds like a confident beta but his description sounds like an alpha to me. Maybe even Alpha 2.0. I even re-read your glossary. Please explain.
Blackdragon 2015-06-27 22:36:32
You said this guy sounds like a confident beta but his description sounds like an alpha to me. Maybe even Alpha 2.0. I even re-read your glossary. Please explain.Granted, it's hard to diagnose a man from just a single paragraph lacking specifics, so of course I could be completely wrong in my assessment. But here are the reasons for my categorization of confident beta. 1. He's not Alpha 2.0 because he said he cheats. Alpha 2.0s never promise monogamy. Thus they can't cheat (and certainly can't feel bad about it). 2. It seems like he feels bad about cheating. An Alpha 1.0 usually does not. This means he's beta. (Betas cheat just as often as other men; the difference is they tend to beat themselves up about it more. Cheating is rougher emotionally for betas than for Alpha 1.0s) 3. He said things like he "tries to take the woman’s feelings into consideration as much as possible" and puts his foot down only when "absolutely necessary." This is beta language. I'm not saying these things are bad, I'm saying they're things betas would say and frame their relationships around. My guess is that he is exactly what he said he is: a former typical "pussy" beta who is now a much more confident beta who is getting success with women because he's less needy than before. Confident betas can do well with women (though not as good as Alphas).
Pain Express 2015-06-28 03:11:04
"A woman of even moderate physical appearance can quite easily find a beta male who will kiss her ass and pay her bills, and then she can tell him she’s going to discreetly get a little Alpha cock on the side. Betas, being men, won’t like that of course, but they will agree to it. Betas will agree to anything to keep their girl" OK, I do not live in US or any other "developed" Western country, so I have to ask with utmost seriousness: are men there really THAT emsaculated? Do they have absolutely no self-respect left and are totally OK being cuckolded and being cheated on?! Somehow, I doubt it. When a woman comes to you with an "open relationship" demand or she openly tells you about her slutdom, even the biggest omega-level loser(never mind a beta) will immediately leave her that very second. Even in the most feminised and pathetic mangina-countries like Sweden or Iceland, a guy's instinct will literally scream: "Get out, you moron! She's cuckolding you!". The whole beta thing has one huge glaring hole: women want them as providers, meaning that, they, the betas, must have at least some financial resources and therefore at least some kind of intelligence to get them. Hard to think that a guy who manages to earn at least some income to support at very least himself and a woman, will have such a low level of self-respect and intelligence to agree to literally "anything" her "soul mate" will demand. That is the main reason why the whole "open relationship" will never, ever work. Men, even the most brainwashed sissies know that there sweethearts will have thousands of admirers and possible partners, while he may get some fat drunk Tess Munster clone at bar twice per year in best case scenario. Absolutely no reason to do these "open relationships"-this is basically the easy way for a stupid bitch to say: "I am cuckolding you". Meaning a guy who agrees to this is not a beta, he is not even an omega, he is an absolute non-entity, a waste of space and resources and a burden on human kind. Do you think he will add something to the world, like a new invention, sprawling business or even will be able to fight, let alone defend, his country against invaders?! So, basically anyone cheering creation of such "beta" non-entities and them becoming the majority, just because it will be easier to screw some damaged sluts, should know that they are basically undemining the whole structure of the civilization and making it easier for Akbars and Muhammeds to bomb, pillage and rape. And who knows, maybe one day, one of those ISIS members will be beheading these hedonostic "alphas" too.
Jordie 2015-06-28 03:47:21
She already answered your question: she’s a virgin. If she wasn’t she wouldn’t be doing this. When you’re a virgin it’s very easy to maintain a long habit of not having sex. It’s outside of your comfort zone and you have no idea what you’re missing. I see guy virgins do this all the time.Even if I was engaging in sexual activity, I'd probably still try to stick with the third option due to my fear of being cheated on. However, I do agree that maintaining my virginity has made it easier (but it's still not easy).
Nathan 2015-06-28 05:50:55
Hang on, you are an Alpha, and have long term partners (who have others on the side). Isn't this the prefered option to having a Beta with Alphas on the side?
doclove 2015-06-28 10:49:39
@ Alex Amen! I will say more below.
doclove 2015-06-28 10:50:32
@ Pain Express Amen! I will say more below.
doclove 2015-06-28 11:02:20
What sane mane with any self worth would sign up to be the beta bucks provider for a woman who gets her alpha fucks on the side? The answer is none. Essentially the woman plays the game of bait, switch and fade. This happens in most marriages since at least the late 1980s, and it has only gotten worse. She promises one thing and then when the NRE is gone, you the man get something else other than what she promised even if she is not cheating on you. It is overwhelmingly most likely she is cheating on you and/or will divorce you. Most women claim that was not their intent from the beginning. I for the sake of not being able to prove otherwise will believe them. Many more women than you realize know what they are doing and it is their intent to bait, switch and fade. It is why I say do not get married. Read what Black Dragon says and then link over to the Rational Male blog which is linked above about marriage. Rollo Tomassi, the Rational Male blog owner and author, explains Alpha FUX, Beta BUX better than anyone.
Blackdragon 2015-06-28 13:48:46
OK, I do not live in US or any other “developed” Western country, so I have to ask with utmost seriousness: are men there really THAT emsaculated?Yes. Have you ever seen a beta male with oneitis? I see it every day. Though if you live outside of the Western world, I can understand your confusion. As always, I'm taking about Western men here. Move to the US or Europe for a year or two...you'll be shocked at the hordes of betas you will see.
The whole beta thing has one huge glaring hole: women want them as providers, meaning that, they, the betas, must have at least some financial resources and therefore at least some kind of intelligence to get them.Incorrect. This is a common misnomer that I've addressed before. As a business consultant with over 25 years of business experience, I can tell you for a fact that the business world is chock full of financially successful beta males. They're successful in the workplace and make good money, but as soon as they go home they cower like pussies in front of their wives or girlfriends. The assumption that high income or high net worth automatically = Alpha is utterly false.
When a woman comes to you with an “open relationship” demand or she openly tells you about her slutdom, even the biggest omega-level loser(never mind a beta) will immediately leave her that very second.Well yeah, if she blurted all that out to a beta male that on the very first date, then yeah, probably. But as doclove pointed out, women don't do that. Most women would do the Alpha 1.0 method: get married and monogamous, cheat, then either get caught or THEN tell the guy what they wanted to do. By then it would be too late, Mr. Beta Husband would be full of oneitis and neediness, and yes, he would go along with it. As I said in the post, he wouldn't like it. He'd probably hate it. But he'd tolerate it.
Hang on, you are an Alpha, and have long term partners (who have others on the side). Isn’t this the prefered option to having a Beta with Alphas on the side?I'm a man. The article is talking about women.
What sane mane with any self worth would sign up to be the beta bucks provider for a woman who gets her alpha fucks on the side? The answer is none.Correct. Only non-confident betas and pussies would go along with this. But that would be the perfect husband for the Strong Independent Woman™ to go cheat with Alphas while puts up with it.
It is overwhelmingly most likely she is cheating on you and/or will divorce you.Correct again. A woman doing this to you will very likely divorce your dumb beta ass down the road. Again, a perfect scenario for Strong Independent Woman™ who wants betas and Alphas. She cheats and fucks Alphas on the side, dumps Mr. Beta when she gets bored, which she will, gets a fat alimony check, fucks some Alphas, then eventually marries another beta again, and repeats the entire process. Look, some of you guys are forgetting something. We're not talking about what you or I or a confident guy or an Alpha would do. We're talking about what beta males will do (and currently do) who make up the vast majority of the Western male population. Yes, it would SUCK to have a woman be out fucking other guys who are more attractive than you, while you sit at home and nervously jerk off to porn while waiting for her to come home. I'm not recommending men do this. I'm simply reporting the facts, and those are: A beta male married and full of oneitis will tolerate (I didn't say like, I said tolerate) his wife going out and getting a little on the side with Alphas once he finds out this is happening. I am I happy about that? No. Do I recommend men do that? No. Is it true with today's betas? Yes.
Al 2015-06-28 20:43:05
It would be a useful start if folks just STOP GETTING MARRIED. These figures are for the U.S. only so god knows what the planetary totals are. Mind you, when you look at what is spent, there'd be a big hole in the economy if marriage dried up overnight. 2.3 million couples wed every year in the US. That breaks down to nearly 6,200 weddings a day The average age of a bride in the US is 25.3 The average age of a groom is 26.9 The average number of guests invited to a wedding is 178 One-third of those getting married each year have been married before $72 billion per year is spent on weddings The average wedding budget is $20,000 $1,016 is the average cost of wedding rings for the bride and groom Taken from soundvision.com
POB 2015-06-29 08:17:11
3. He said things like he “tries to take the woman’s feelings into consideration as much as possible” and puts his foot down only when “absolutely necessary.”@BD Maybe it's just me, but I think this one needs some clarification. Of course we Alphas 2.0s take the woman's feelings into consideration BUT: 1) don't do it just for the sake of not appearing bad on other people's eyes (outcome independence). 2) know how to tell the difference between REAL feelings and woman drama, attention neediness or any other female crap that's roughly 95% of what beta world is passing for "feelings" these days. Just my thoughts.
Blackdragon 2015-06-29 14:05:52
Maybe it’s just me, but I think this one needs some clarification. Of course we Alphas 2.0s take the woman’s feelings into consideration BUT:It depends. I'm a kind and considerate person. However, if a woman is giving me any drama whatsoever, I don't take her feelings into consideration, I soft next her and go fuck someone else. I have a feeling Joshua would not do this, hesitating or even refusing to next this way because she might not like it (though I could be wrong).
JoshuaTenor 2015-06-29 14:21:33
I admit that I wasn't even familiar with the concept of a soft next until I visited this site. My whole experience with women has consisted of me learning bit by bit through experience and every once in a while, reading an article or two on the subject. I don't think I have ever used a soft next, at least not exactly as it is described here. I think mainly this is because I have been engaged in serial monogomy. I didn't even know what that was or that there was a name for it until I came here, but once I saw it, I said, yep, that sounds like me. I would generally move from relationship to relationship ranging from several months at shortest, to about 3 years at longest. This also includes a marriage sort of "at the beginning" of all this. Including the marriage, I have lived with a woman on 3 occasions and as we know, soft next is really not an option in those cases anyway you are stuck in the same place.
Blackdragon 2015-06-29 15:10:25
I think mainly this is because I have been engaged in serial monogomy. I didn’t even know what that was or that there was a name for it until I came here, but once I saw it, I said, yep, that sounds like me.That rules out Alpha 2.0. So you're either a 1.0 or a beta, and you really don't sound like a 1.0 . So yeah, I'm going to my original conclusion and say you're a confident beta. (Which is much better than a standard beta, if that helps.)
Jordie 2015-07-01 02:50:02
What do you think about the idea of co-parenting where, instead of parenting after a divorce or separation, the people meet with the intention of becoming parents/co-parenting while never having a relationship? (i.e. sites like familybydesign or modamily) That way children aren't being used as pawns after a relationship goes sour and kids have both a mother and father in their lives. Do you think this will become more common? This type of deal could make it so people who don't want monogamy don't ever have to get in relationships. They could have sex with whomever and whenever they want while still having kids.
Leon 2015-07-01 02:54:49
@BD I'm a faithful subcriber of both blogs, BD and SYT, and I must say kudo for your work. Being a Confident Beta (pussy in the past) with HIGH sex-drive I can easily relate to what you preach while keep working to Alpha status, maybe even OLTR. I know I will get there some day. However I always wonder if all these teachings still hold true for Confident Beta/Alphas with LOW sex-drive? If they manage to find a nice woman that is reasonable, aka not withholding sex for ridiculous reason, not giving much drama to her man... then they might be able to commit in monogamy with success and don't have to cheat. Come to think about it, I can't ignore some old couples around that really seem to made it work, they are happy, love each other till death... What's your opinion, or mine is just too Disney-like? Thx and best regards,
POB 2015-07-01 06:23:10
It depends. I’m a kind and considerate person. However, if a woman is giving me any drama whatsoever, I don’t take her feelings into consideration, I soft next her and go fuck someone else.Exactly my point! Problem is people (women and betas in general) are confusing drama with feelings. It's obvious that we are all subject to hurt someone else's feelings, even if it's not in our own intention. What I'm saying is it takes a lot of crap to do that. For starters, if you don't lie to women you'll probably avoid a huge chunk of problems and hurt feelings. If you do then it's out of your hands and you'll have to take responsibility when it comes back to bite you (and it will). Be honest right from the start and everything a woman throw at you is purely a way of seeking attention or trying to change something she does not like about you or the relationship. If she does that it's HER CHOICE to have her own feelings hurt in whatever manner because she knows who I am and what are the terms of our deal. Changing me will never happen. Changing the terms is out of place because she never sought me to do that. She decided to go for it on her own one-sided emotional turmoil for whatever reason. So yes, she's up for a soft next and I'm up for good sex with someone else who's not causing me any problems.
Al 2015-07-01 06:32:21
Be honest right from the start and everything a woman throws at you is purely a way of seeking attention or trying to change something she does not like about you or the relationship.This is the nub of it all really. Be honest from the start. Women continually test to see if they can bend you out of shape. I have found that once they realise that you are rock solid (1) they stop testing, at least, nowhere near as much and (2) they are attracted by your stance even if that fact annoys them a bit now and again. That way it remains their problem and sometimes the light actually dawns and they realise it's their fault for introducing drama when there is no need.
Al 2015-07-01 19:34:43
Do women acknowledge this? No. Instead, they go on first date, after first date, after first date, looking for Mr. Unicorn Man. They have relationship, after relationship, after relationship, looking for Mr. Submissive Alpha Male.I take most of what you say on face value because it makes sense and I know that you have the evidence and stats to back up what you say. However, personal experience is always good for learning. I actually heard this today: "When I go on a date it is to see if this man is a potential husband. Every man I meet I treat this way. That is what dates are for. Don't you go on dates to find a wife?" I was speechless for a while. But then I said that no, I didn't go on dates to look for a wife. I go on dates to have some social interaction and some fun. That went down like a ton of bricks. But we are still going to hook up at the weekend!!
Blackdragon 2015-07-02 14:26:39
What do you think about the idea of co-parenting where, instead of parenting after a divorce or separation, the people meet with the intention of becoming parents/co-parenting while never having a relationship?I think it's fine as long as the two parents get along very well (that's a big "IF") and you realize that many women are going to balk at you still "living with your wife" if you want a serious relationship with them (FBs won't care of course).
Do you think this will become more common?Yes. I know several men doing it. Even Ben Affleck is doing it.
This type of deal could make it so people who don’t want monogamy don’t ever have to get in relationships. They could have sex with whomever and whenever they want while still having kids.You're putting a little too positive a spin on it. At some point, you're going to want a serious GF or OLTR, and this will be extremely difficult if you are stuck living with your ex-wife / baby mommy for another 10 years.
I always wonder if all these teachings still hold true for Confident Beta/Alphas with LOW sex-drive?I have said before that monogamy is more workable for men with low sex drives, particularity those who are low sex drive and have a high drama tolerance.
I can’t ignore some old couples around that really seem to made it work, they are happy, love each other till death… What’s your opinion, or mine is just too Disney-like?You're confusing the difference between CAN'T have sex and CHOOSE NOT TO have sex. Those old people (most of them anyway) don't have sex; they physically can't in most cases. Most really old people cuddle and stuff like that; it's not what you and I would consider sex. If you're 35 and healthy, you can have sex, and will still want to. You can't compare yourself to these old people.
I actually heard this today: “When I go on a date it is to see if this man is a potential husband. Every man I meet I treat this way. That is what dates are for. Don’t you go on dates to find a wife?”With over-33s, that's exactly correct.
Jordie 2015-07-03 14:24:51
I think it’s fine as long as the two parents get along very well (that’s a big “IF”) and you realize that many women are going to balk at you still “living with your wife” if you want a serious relationship with them (FBs won’t care of course).Luckily, in some of these new co-parent "relationships" they never live together, so guys who still want a girlfriend or whatever don't need to worry about that. The two people may not even be attracted to each other besides in the way each one parents.
You’re putting a little too positive a spin on it. At some point, you’re going to want a serious GF or OLTR, and this will be extremely difficult if you are stuck living with your ex-wife / baby mommy for another 10 years.Well, I was looking at it as a better option than going to a sperm bank since there would be a father for the kids. No relationship or sex between us ever. I wouldn't have to worry about a boyfriend or anything long-term because like you said, guys don't want monogamy. I don't see any reason for a relationship if there's no monogamy. Thank you for sharing you opinion on c0-parenting; I guess a sperm bank may be a better option.
Blackdragon 2015-07-03 14:42:25
in some of these new co-parent “relationships” they never live togetherThen that isn't co-parenting. Those are just two divorced people who agree on certain things about the kids. That's most divorced people. With these non-relationsihp co-parenting "relationships," the man and woman actually live together and raise the kids together, but they're aren't in a relationship, have separate bedrooms, never have sex, and can and do date other people.
I don’t see any reason for a relationship if there’s no monogamy.Um...huh? Then you're doomed.
Jordie 2015-07-03 15:22:32
With these non-relationsihp co-parenting “relationships,” the man and woman actually live together and raise the kids together, but they’re aren’t in a relationship, have separate bedrooms, never have sex, and can and do date other people.Ahh, thank you. The coparenting match sites seem to sell something different, so that's good to know. I guess a sperm bank is the only option.
Um…huh?I apologize for not being clear enough. I meant that I don't see a reason for a relationship for me if there's no monogamy; I'd end up feeling like a guy's mother or his roommate instead. It can obviously work for other people.
Brotish 2015-07-06 06:35:56
Hi blackdragon, i have a question. I am 36 year old man and thinking one day Ill want to start a family but I want to continue to have sex on the side with other women. My question with your oltr concept is that if i ever live with a woman and attempt to have and raise my children, well, the thought of her fucking another man would make me feel like a cuckold. I thought about it and while i think it's all fair to use your oltr concept when its not a live in arrangement, once you have children together and you even contribute financially, likely more than she does, id find it hard to swallow that shed get her cake (live together, children, stable relationship and possibly partly provided for) and eat it fucking other men. Doesnt feel right. Am i being hypocritical? Its not jealousy, iys just that letting the mother of my children suck some stranger's cock before putting my children to bed doesnt sound right. My idea is to get a girl with whom to raise my family and shed get all the benefits of being with me and living with me but would understand what a good deal that is that she gets to breed with a high quality man, who provides for her and her children but also understands that she needs to b faithful to me, we both get a good compromise on what we want.
JoshuaTenor 2015-07-06 08:05:22
Am i being hypocritical?Yes.
Brotish 2015-07-06 08:52:46
@joshuatenor problem is, women become emotionally bonded to men they fuck. And then it's very unpredictable what will happen. I have been in an oltr that ended when my ex started fucking another guy and broke up with me while i could do it without losing control of my emotions. Having a family with a woman who is having sex with other men makes you the boring guy she lives with while the othe rguy is the lover, the thrill. I wouldnt want to risk my family because my woman gets tingles from some guy shes fucking.
Insidious_Sid 2015-07-06 11:45:24
I've been saying this for years. Women want an alpha-beta hybrid - all of the best attributes of each. The trouble with women and their Emotional Logic (tm) is that they frequently create things in their minds which cannot exist in the real world. Like budgets based on spending 2x what she makes each month. Like alpha-beta men. The trick is to put something in the drinking water to quell male sex drive long enough for beta men to get past their (a) sex drives and (b) libidos to realize they are being used like Kleenex by women and indirectly by alphas. Many alphas laugh at Betas buying drinks, giving rides, paying rent... Alphas spend their money on motorcycles and summer beach houses and nice clothes to wear to the club. Betas are the ones who are supposed to spend their money on her... rent, bills, food... Betas and Alpha's are BOTH resources for women by the way. Women only see RESOURCES, not other human beings. It's just that Betas are eternally bitter than fun and sex is not what they are for. They are the worker ants - the ants designed to provide in the human hive. So, beta orbiters, simps, white-knights, manginas.... all of you GOOD PROVIDERS, I say tell her to put out or get out. Man up indeed. Kick her @$$ to the curb. Feminists and man-haters will say that MGTOWs and men who opt out were not in the game anyways. FALSE. I was in the game when I married a reasonably good looking lady and had kids. I *AM* still in the game, because despite my complete loss of interest in monogamous live-in relationships, I am still sought by women *looking for resources*. They dangle their (now aging) pussies in front of me and I don't take the bait. I just smile and say "not looking for a relationship right now." They reply: "But what about feelz? What about cuddle? What about sex?" I retort: "I can get all those things on an 'as needed' basis and I don't need to move a woman into my house to do it." Then they ghost. Their Magic Pussy Powers (tm) do not work on me, so on to the next potential Beta, like the good little parasites that they are. Men, grow some actually balls and let the ALphas start paying for their whores. Seriously. Stop paying for other men's concubines you idiots. Is it worth selling your own pride and being a laughing stock just for the promise of a whiff of extremely used pussy? You know what gives it that distinct odor right? Yes - the semen of the men you hate for getting the tail and leaving YOU with the bill. So snap the f*ck out of it. MAN UP and say no to Beta submission. Tell these so-called Strong Independent Women (tm) to pay their own effen way or have their alpha stud-boys start bucking up and bring more than just STD-infected semen to the party.
Blackdragon 2015-07-06 18:18:28
I meant that I don’t see a reason for a relationship for me if there’s no monogamy; I’d end up feeling like a guy’s mother or his roommate instead.Ok. Have fun getting cheated on.
id find it hard to swallow that shed get her cake (live together, children, stable relationship and possibly partly provided for) and eat it fucking other men.Women don't normally play around on the side when they have new babies to take care of. They aren't in that mode during this time. When the kids get older, then they might.
Am i being hypocritical?If you're allowed to fuck other women while she can't fuck other men, then yes. Very much so.
Its not jealousy, iys just that letting the mother of my children suck some stranger’s cock before putting my children to bed doesnt sound right.It's jealousy and what they call "Madonna Whore." If you want to be long-term happy, you need to get over it.
My idea is to get a girl with whom to raise my family and shed get all the benefits of being with me and living with me but would understand what a good deal that is that she gets to breed with a high quality man, who provides for her and her children but also understands that she needs to b faithful to me, we both get a good compromise on what we want....while you fuck hot chicks on the side. Right? You've just described the quintessential Alpha Male 1.0 relationship. As I say to all men who want this: "Ok. Have fun getting cheated on or divorced."
I have been in an oltr that ended when my ex started fucking another guy and broke up with me while i could do it without losing control of my emotions.Then she didn't qualify for OLTR. Most likely, you jumped into an OLTR with a woman much too quickly. You did not vet her enough to make sure she was qualified for OLTR. Many women aren't. No woman should be an OLTR with you until she's been an MLTR for AT LEAST 6 months. If you want to live with her, it should be 12 months or more. After that time, you'll know if she falls for her side-guys or if she doesn't. My gut tells me you didn't wait this long.
Al 2015-07-06 20:32:41
.....................MAN UP and say no to Beta submission. Tell these so-called Strong Independent Women ™ to pay their own effen way or have their alpha stud-boys start bucking up..........Here is a radical idea (though likely impossible I admit). Withholding sex is currently a weapon owned and used by women. If all men were to take hold of this weapon, my, how things would change. Okay, some women would be very pleased if men stopped trying to fuck them all the time. But many women would not. Coincidentally, today, one of my FB's decided to tell me that she has money trouble. Though, in fairness, she didn't ask me for help. But I suppose the question was implied. I didn't comment. She has enough other people in her life to help her. AND if she'd damn well budget instead of buying things she doesn't need, there'd be no problem!! With apologies to the women who do manage their finances well. I know a few. And their freedom and the freedom in our relationships is a breath of fresh air. 🙂
Al 2015-07-06 20:40:10
.......................I'd find it hard to swallow.........................You'd find it hard to swallow that she swallows other men but no you. Christ man, if you want to fuck around, surely you see that you have to accept that she / they can as well??? 😕
Jordie 2015-07-06 22:17:11
Ok. Have fun getting cheated on.That's why I said option 3 or finding a guy to only have kids with 🙂 Oh well, thank you for discussing anyways.
Brotish 2015-07-07 03:11:11
@blackdragon @Al well, as i said, i have no problem in them fucking other guys but my experience of my ex leaving with a beta white knight who tripped over himself for my ex really messed up with me and left some scars. And now i have the problem that if i ever want to raise a family but not lose my children p, in order to ensure that her atrraction for me doesnt fade i need to be able to fuck other women and at the same time i need to know she's not going to run away with some other starved beta promising monogamy once i have children. id like to hear someone with experience on how to deal with this specific situation. Actually,, this is one criticism i have for you blackdragon, i really love your blog and purchased your book and has helped me tremendously but you had your children before you went alpha 2.0 so id like to hear how someone has got into a stable arrangement where they meet a girl, both fuck other people and go and have children happily. Currently i met a girl i love about a year ago, she was initially happy being non monogamous and fucked at least one guy and one girl. But now for thenlast 3 months she's going completely nuts pushing for monogamy, tells me to break up and comes back for sex after a few weeks. Shes a great girl, talented and likes to cook but has a temper an can b unpredictable. She's totally in love with me, i have experience and i can tell the difference. I guess i have to let her go and come back if she wants. Im just getting a little oneitis for this one. In the meantime ive been with a dozen other girls and none of them even get close.
Insidious_Sid 2015-07-07 09:08:27
@Al: Al, only Alpha's have sex the women want - the top 10-20% of men would have to withhold sex from women, which they have no incentive in doing. Provider males have resources, which make them handy. They are tolerated, kept around and exploited, for promise of a whiff of what the alpha gets regularly from multiple women. The woman hates the beta - she needs his resources that the alpha squanders on good times and other women. The woman needs the man she does not want, and can't have the man she does want. She's in a constant state of existential angst. Every wonder why women won't shut up about how their relationships are not yet "perfect" and even when NOTHING is wrong, something is WRONG? This is why. But mother nature made sure part of women's brains was removed that would immediately enable her to see past this - and instead there is pure cognitive dissonance. The solution is not withholding sex, it's withholding resources. Men need to stop providing resources and make the PROMISE of sex worthless. Men are dumb. We *offer* resources in hopes of getting a fair exchange. There are many deals in life where you can't pony up first - like in situations where lawyers keep money in trust, like in real-estate deals. You don't fork over $300K for a house and hope the other party will deliver. This is what men do with sex. Pathetic, weak, spineless pu$$y-beggar men need to stop but they will not. I've said it time and time again. Until we can put something in the global water supply to quell the male sex drive, women will continue to exploit men at every given opportunity. And men will let them. And men will even go as far as to ridicule men who refuse to play the game. They will throw their neighbors and brothers and friends under the bus just for the CHANCE at a piece of @$$. The average man is pathetic. It's our fault for allowing women to lower the bar for themselves and raise it, continually, for prospective partners. The expectation list for betas now is laughable at best. Any man who signs up for this is an idiot. If you can't be alpha, and are not alpha, walk away. Why do you think there are such strong opponents to prostitution now? If men can walk away from the game and get their biological needs met somewhere else, what does this do to the sexual marketplace? It turns it on it's head. With women pricing themselves out of a market, other suppliers with more reasonable prices must be eliminated. What you're seeing is a cartel, and women know very well what the ultimate female privilege is: It's how they can exploit male desire, and they are masters at it. If they won't let me say all women are wh0res, then I will simply say "All men pay for sex". Because one way or another, we do.
Blackdragon 2015-07-07 15:47:56
i need to know she’s not going to run away with some other starved beta promising monogamy once i have childrenI'm sorry, but you will never know this. That's is not how women work. If you want kids, this is a risk you MUST take, or else don't have kids. It's huge risk no matter if you're monogamous or open, legally married or not. I don't like it either, but that's the reality. Accept it, or don't have kids.
you had your children before you went alpha 2.0 so id like to hear how someone has got into a stable arrangement where they meet a girl, both fuck other people and go and have children happilyI know many couples like this and interviewed many of them for my Open Marriage ebook. Sadly pretty much all of them choose to remain anonymous, despite my pressuring them to do guest posts for this blog and the like. That's the problem; these couples keep their open stuff very, very quiet. As soon as one of them decides to contribute here, believe me, I'll be posting about it.
Al 2015-07-08 22:51:22
You know what gives it that distinct odor right? Yes – the semen of the men you hate for getting the tail and leaving YOU with the bill.Sounds like bitter experience to me. 🙂 Any Alpha 2.0 worth the name is using a condom. Any 'distinct odor' is down to the owner. No one with a merest hint of odor gets in my bed. And yes, I do check. 😀 But I take your point. I think. 🙂
POB 2015-07-11 17:11:01
Look, I did not read all comments but as far as I can tell, guys here need to get over the snowflake mith ASAP. Women LOVE SEX. And aside from some periods in their lives (mostly new-guy NRE and new-baby NRE), they like variety too. Get over it please and man-up! If you're looking to raise a family Alpha 2.0 style, you'll have to find a girl who's up to that kind of arrangement right from the start and test her continuously through the relationship. You keep your end of the bargain and see if she does the same. That's it.
Its not jealousy, iys just that letting the mother of my children suck some stranger’s cock before putting my children to bed doesnt sound right.But you can come home and kiss your kids cheeks and foreheads with the smell of another woman's pussy all over your mouth and chin. It's hypocritical and wrong. If you want her to be monogamous, be one yourself and suffer the consequences.
As soon as one of them decides to contribute here, believe me, I’ll be posting about it.@BD Looking forward to it!
Copperhead Joe 2015-07-20 14:46:48
"A man who is strong, confident, badass, successful, and masculine is an Alpha Male. This man is not going to follow a woman’s orders, at least not for the long term. This man is going to eventually cheat on her, even if he promises not to." That is ridiculous. You've been watching too much television or reading too many blogs. For goodness' sake, I can think of at least three men in my immediate family, one of whom was my father, who were strong, confident, badass, successful, and masculine, and were married to one woman for their entire adult lives without ever cheating once. You just have to go back a couple of generations to see them.
Copperhead Joe 2015-07-20 15:02:03
Though you are framing this explicitly in the present, so my examples don't matter. I admit that I don't know any such person in the present.
Blackdragon 2015-07-20 15:03:12
Though you are framing this explicitly in the present, so my examples don’t matter. I admit that I don’t know any such person in the present.Annnnnd BINGO! I'm talking about now, not the 1800s or the 1950s. I don't know any women taking time machines and going back in time to marry men in 1925.
Johnny 2015-07-24 13:09:52
BD, do you think there are ever situations in which an Alpha male 1.0 / 2.0 or confident beta male can be in a monogamous relationship/marriage and not eventually become totally "betarized" and/ or not have his girlfriend or wife eventually cheat on /break-up with/ or divorce him?
Blackdragon 2015-07-30 11:56:18
BD, do you think there are ever situations in which an Alpha male 1.0 / 2.0 or confident beta male can be in a monogamous relationship/marriage and not eventually become totally “betarized” and/ or not have his girlfriend or wife eventually cheat on /break-up with/ or divorce him?Just like there are situations where someone buys a lottery ticket and wins $100 million dollars, yes. There are always unusual exceptions to every rule. That doesn't mean I'd recommend everyone buy lottery tickets to achieve their financial goals. As I've talked about before, the people with the least-bad odds of making long-term monogamy work are boring, low sex drive people who marry another boring, low sex drive person.
Bisq 2015-08-06 13:18:55
So true Gena Sholwater paranormal romance book Lords of the Underworld are of male characters that are alpha males of alpha males. Hence there paranormal abilities [its not just that they're rich and powerful men, they're super powerful men capable decimating mere mortal alphas (image women creaming to this). They are the quintessential submissive alpha.
common sense 2015-10-07 13:23:49
I want a man who is strong, confident, badass, successful, take-charge, and masculine. He needs to be a guy who kicks ass and turns me on. BUT! He also needs to treat me like a lady, do what he’s told, take out the trash, always be faithful, treat me with respect, and kiss my ass.There are plenty of men out there that fit this description. You're putting labels on men as if characteristics are black and white and mutually exclusive. A masculine badass can be faithful, respectful, chivalrous. Laugh all you want, but I'm one of them, for now 😀
Blackdragon 2015-10-07 13:42:46
I’m one of themNo you're not. Either you're not as tough and badass as you think, or more likely, you're not going to be a woman's submissive little bitch when she attempts to boss you around.
Tata 2015-10-12 09:30:00
The paradox you describe is true (the attractive jerk vs the unattractive good guy) for most women I know and I also experienced that too. I could give you dozens of examples of women I know who have experienced the misery with the alpha, had children with him in some cases, and ended married a beta, and even an omega in their thirties or forties. When I was in my youth, I noticed that it's was a recurring patern in the gangs of friends. The problem was that all the girls wanted the same guy than me, and this guy had a disproportionate ego. The same patern always restarted when I met new people. Usually there was only one really cute guy in a gang of friends and maybe one or two others who are proper. All the others guys were omegas. The cute guy sleep with all the girls of the gang and the others guys watch it and are jealous. The omegas try to attracts the girls being "nice", listen to them, comfort her when her heart is broken. In the party there is always a girl who cry for the Alpha when she is drunk. Also, all the girls hate each others. The Alpha ofter introduce a new girl in the gang, and the others girls look at her with assassin eyes. Who said that a party is supposed to be fun? I don't know why people like to be in a gang so much and to suffer this circus partys after partys. Are they massochistes? After we finish the studies, start to work, become adults, try the dating websites, etc. Finding an "handsome good man" is not easier! We listen at our mother tell always the same history, how she knew our father at the dance of the village, married at 20 years old, had a baby one year later, and it's obvious that the modern life is harder for the women now. I know some exception of women of my age who are still with their highschool sweetheart or met a guy in the same small village when they was teens or early twenties. The guy was cute and good guy in the same time (or he was a bad boy but he wanted to commit) but most women never had it. I think that it work for them because they don't live in a big city, they come from the same environment, they where very young when they met and don't know anything else. Your theory is very close to the reality, but is not 100% accurate: I know some very handsome men who are good husbands, fathers, and are not jerks, players, cheaters, womanizers, bad boys, criminal, wife beaters, etc. Not all beautiful men are bad. They need love too like others humans. How could you explain that? Maybe they are not the majority of the handsome men. I don't know... If your theory is true, there is no solution: 1. The solution to marry a beta to have a good provider and cheat on him with an alpha is dangerous. It's asking to get murdered. Don't underestimate the ability of the Betas and Omegas men to become mad. They are still men, and all men could explode one day. Also the problem is the woman almost always divorce the beta and try to live with the alpha because they can't have only casual sex with the alpha. Women are too emotionals for that. 2. Marry an alpha and tolerate his infidelity. Cook for him, clean his cloths and waiting after him when he is gone fucking the other woman. It's how most women live in latin america. This is a third world mentality. These countries have a big problem of illegitimate children and poverty because they live like monkeys. The monogamy was created by modern humans to build a great civilization. In the polygamy society model of latin america (and others shitholes countries), only the man can have multiple partners, but the woman could be murdered if she do the same. I think that the "open marriages" where it's fair both sides is an utopia because the human nature is not like this. The Alpha men are dominants and possessives, and the females are always in violent sexual competition with others females. Maybe an open marriages could work with an omega man who have no self esteem, and the woman don't love him and she don't care of what he do. But there is another problem more basic with the solution of marrying and Alpha and tolerate his infidelity: these men seldom commit. For this solution work, the man should marry the woman in the first place, but she have 1 chance on 100 or 1000 that he will "choose" her for a long term relationship. Anyway, in the ideal world beautiful people should be with others beautifuls people at the same level than them. Beta men should date beta women, omega men with omega women, etc. Men and women sould not try to be in relationship with someone "out of their league". A Beta or Omega man with a too hot woman for him is never a good idea, even if he is rich or is a rock star. He will live in constant fear and she will treat him like shit, yell at him, make dramas, divorce, and etc. Average and ugly people should date together. If the woman is too hot for him, he will get what he deserve for trying to have something that it's not for him. For beautiful women it's complicate, because the beautiful men are rarely "husband material" so I don't know what is the solution. Maybe have a good luck to find an handsome good guy or date a Beta with a good average look, but not the hottest on the planet. If he is good in bed, he could get some points (a lot of handsome men are selfish and boring in bed).
Blackdragon 2015-10-12 09:51:48
If your theory is true, there is no solutionPretty much, yes, unless the women re-orients her thinking dramatically.
The solution to marry a beta to have a good provider and cheat on him with an alpha is dangerous. It’s asking to get murdered.That's an overstatement. Millions upon millions of women cheat on husbands and boyfriends and don't get murdered. Regardless, I'm against cheating.
Marry an alpha and tolerate his infidelity. Cook for him, clean his cloths and waiting after him when he is gone fucking the other woman. It’s how most women live in latin america. This is a third world mentality.Yes, the challenge with that is drama. That woman will be a nonstop source of drama for that guy. No thanks.
Tata 2015-10-12 13:44:20
Look at this history. It's one example on what a Beta loser could become crazy mad if the wife cheat on him. He killed their kids and was sent to psychiatric hospital after: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/turcotte-said-he-killed-his-children-to-spite-his-wife-nurse-testifies-1.2597432 I know personnaly no women who cheat on their husband, but I saw what these women write in the web. It's horrible to read. You will not sleep after to see that.
Blackdragon 2015-10-12 13:55:39
Please read this blog post about how dumb it is to point at one scary article you read on the internet and then attempting to use that as a point that applies to millions of people. Beta male husbands don't kill wives who cheat on them, barring the extremely rare exception to the rule.
Tata 2015-10-12 14:05:47
Ok killing the wife and the children is an extreme example, but in our society the female infidelity is still not tolerated as the male infidelity. They will end by a divorce. The wife will ask the divorce first in 80% of the cases, but she will try to live with her lover (and she will fail). They will destroy families and the children will be disturbed. It's better to stay alone than make a bad marriage like this.
Blackdragon 2015-10-12 19:07:29
Now you've got it. Don't ever get legally married, don't ever get sexually monogamous. Now you're singing my tune.
The Captain 2015-10-25 23:39:37
The thing is Betas are starting to understand the game, they understand that marrying these chicks that have passed their good years (ie been fucked by a bunch of alphas) is stupid and emasculating. they now know that you dont wife up a chick that wants you as her last option, and many aren't marrying or commiting to these women, which is why this generation of men aren't going to be marrying, and the women will be wondering why, How come they dont want to marry me, where have all the good men gone? They realized the risks of divorce, and alimony are at an all time high, and that the alphas have already used the chicks up. Thats when the dating game starts to suck for women, and gets better for men
Al 2015-10-25 23:58:02
@ The Captain We can only hope that you are right. I think it's starting to happen but may be a long time yet before the effects really filter through. Basically, if men would just stop getting married, women would have to up their game. BUT, I think that there are so many millions of men and women getting married because, "that's what you do" (and also because women want security and men want to snag a bit of pussy for ever - hopeless as those dreams are) that I wonder if things will ever change to a great degree. Anyway, as I said, we can always hope that change is coming. 🙂
Blackdragon 2015-10-26 05:47:19
which is why this generation of men aren’t going to be marrying, and the women will be wondering whyI don't think that's going to happen. If you look at the marriage stats very carefully, you'll see that men are still getting married in more or less same numbers they used to. The only difference is that they're waiting about 5 years longer. Betas are still getting married. Even most Alphas eventually surrender to marriage. This won't be changing any time soon.
The Captain 2015-10-26 21:53:23
@Blackdragon, i never knew that, i always thought the consensus was that marrying nowadays is a mistake, im not good with women but observed and pretty much know how to interact with them. But the dudes that get married realize their mistakes when the chick they marry starts getting bored
Blackdragon 2015-10-27 00:38:00
i always thought the consensus was that marrying nowadays is a mistakeHaha, you're reading too many blogs like this one. That is most certainly NOT the consensus, even among PUA and Alpha Males. The consensus is that marriage is harder than it was before but as long as you pick the right girl you'll be fine. And as usual, the consensus is wrong.
Lady 2016-03-30 18:53:57
Hello all, I know this is an old post but I feel like I have to bump it. Hopefully I can contribute something helpful. Looking over all these comments, it disturbs me greatly that there are so many men that have been hurt by so many women, so very badly. My man was once engaged to a girl who denied him any freedom with his friends, only let him put the tip in, occasionally sucked him off but no cumming in the mouth or on her and she eventually cheated on him. However, I would definitely describe him as an Alpha. Maybe he was trying to be beta to keep her (what he thought was) happy? Or maybe he became Alpha later-- I did meet him when he was right out of Ranger training. On a side note: Special Forces men have unbelivAble alpha energy. I feel totally physically safe with him. Upon meeting him, men instantly act like they want his approval. Women of all ages admire him openly (and stare at me with the hate of a thousand hells). The sex is super hot and he absolutely turned me out. **He convinced me to give up my v-card in TWO WEEKS--!** It took several years for his own friends to speak to me in a relaxed way and when we are in public and speak to another man, they will not even LOOK (much less speak) at me. It took me almost 8 years to figure out why, lol. They fear and respect him I guess. Only other alpha males approach me now... Is this a sense all you guys have or something?? It would be pretty naive of me to believe that women are less likely to be verbally abusive, emotionally manipulative and unfaithful than men but I suppose that's what I have thought all of this time. :/ IMHO, many of these women probably aren't even aware of the truly fulfilling attitude of "submission of will and service of heart". The short version for that is, the woman submits what she wants for what the man wants and serves him with all of her heart. To the 'modern feminist woman', I am sure this sounds like the height of ignorance and perhaps blind willfulness. It would be a lie to say that actively choosing to adopt this attitude is easy. At times, it is an incredibly difficult, pride-swallowing, white hot dagger to the heart. I have been put on the back burner, made agreements with him that were not honored, been called almost every name in the book, accused of things I did not do, insulted without cause and had many of my own talents and desires suppressed because he did not like those things about me. (but I have never been bored!) Once again, I chose to accept this treatment. I maybe chose it without fully knowing the consequences of my choice, but I own that choice. Having said that, I have and do stand up to him on a regular basis. I will no longer allow him to degrade me or insult me. I work on improving myself and giving him the respect he deserves for his sacrifice of working hard and paying our expenses. If he ever cheats on me it is over, no second chances on that one...and I have learned so much about myself and who I am. IE: I would never, ever be satisfied being with a beta or omega male. I am considered a 'top quality wife' (by my husband and his braver friends lol) I am not perfect. I am so much stronger (emotionally) than I ever thought I could be. I am an amazing fuck. There are many other things like how to fire a gun, how to drive a tractor and the various parts of the body to punch/jab/kick if I am being attacked lol.. (edit: #2,4 & 5 may sound arrogant but I had almost zero self esteem when I met him) For all you alphas out there, I commend you for embracing what makes you men-- your natural ability to lead others into safety and provision despite opposition or manipulation. In other words, your balls. 🙂 Please, just remember that most of us ladies want a man who holds tightly to his manhood but also just as tightly to his woman's heart. Thank you!
Blackdragon 2016-04-01 12:07:43
My man was once engaged to a girl who denied him any freedom with his friends, only let him put the tip in, occasionally sucked him off but no cumming in the mouth or on her and she eventually cheated on him. However, I would definitely describe him as an Alpha.He's not Alpha. You're describing him as Alpha because you're married to him and you love him so your perception of him is skewed.
I have been put on the back burner, made agreements with him that were not honored, been called almost every name in the book, accused of things I did not do, insulted without cause and had many of my own talents and desires suppressed because he did not like those things about me. (but I have never been bored!) Once again, I chose to accept this treatment.Your marriage is dysfunctional. I suggest getting marriage counseling immediately (or divorce him).
If he ever cheats on me it is over, no second chances on that oneHe will. Eventually. To think he won't is a teenage level of thought. Accept it or move on.
bongstar420 2016-07-31 15:30:24
This has nothing to to do with the man being "alpha" or "beta" Its that the two behavioral patterns are mutually exclusive to women...IE, the more you do one, the more compromised your station as the other becomes. You can't do both because she won't be able to discern if you are "truely" one or the other which is what she does subconsciously. If you do both, she will determine one or the other independent of your control. Why can't men simply tell women that what she is attracted to is mutually excluding what she says she wants? Proove this to her by making her squirt and then giving her the beta program while predicting the outcome. Tell her that within months of betaprogram, she will want to bail sexually but stay emotionally....so that her nice dependable slave will raise the children of her true sexual desire.
Rose 2016-11-05 20:57:02
Youre wrong. Just because a man is an alpha does not mean he will cheat. It all comes down to MORALS. A real man, beta or alpha, will not cheat. Why? Because only a real man believes in God and fears him. A real woman wont take advantage of her man like that because the bible says a woman should honor her husband and was primarily created to be a helper for man. Im expecting so many responses talking crap, but let me just tell you that i couldnt possibly care less. I must say this beforehand since i wont respond or read responses anyway. God tells you what a good woman and man are. If there is no man out there who will take care of his woman and children while being faithful , then how sad. What a disappointment to God, his beloved creation. Men arent meant to cheat. Thats ridiculous. God didnt make men natural cheaters. Why would he doom them like that? The devil tempts us all. Whether we succumb to it is solely our doing and responsibility. Just find a man/woman who believes in God and really tries ti please GOD.
Blackdragon 2016-11-06 15:29:06
Just find a man/woman who believes in God and really tries ti please GOD.The Christian divorce rate is 42%, so you're factually incorrect. Source here. Try to use facts and evidence in your arguments, instead of general, emotional statements about god and the devil.
Johnny Ringo 2016-12-26 00:21:51
It's funny, my personal challenge has been the inverse of this. Finding the "unicorn" dominant Alpha female. Or any really. Not for a long term mate, just to know they exist. Even in a female wrestling context (what we do) you very rarely find ladies who want to aggressively dominate the other woman out there, or even have the confidence and/or willpower to do so. Much like guys who pay women to tell them what to do, (not into it, but I get it) it is nice when you can find a woman that has her own developed thoughts, can do things on her own, has a take charge attitude to life and sex. Heck, my girlfriend is a very pretty lady wrestler, and gets 99+ messages per day. Can you imagine (as a guy) getting that many messages from women? If we get one message in a decade (or 5 years) from a woman saying that they want to fuck out of the blue, or that they think you are sexy, whatever, is about as rare as nuns kissing each other on Sunday in church.
Schkai Scheer 2017-01-29 11:20:49
Hello, I am a woman married to a wonderful man who has lovingly supported me while helping me understand that as a woman I desire strong alpha men to have sex with. The first other man I had sex with, I strongly believe is a very sexy alpha despite the fact that he does not believe so. He is now in a relationship with a woman who makes him extremely angry and stressed and who has stopped having sex with him and especially being sexy and spontaneous and initiating sex with him. I know all of this because he still talks to me and still likes to share sexy texts and pictures and even was able to meet up for a quick BJ in his car while in a relationship with her. Anyways, Anyways, the reason I am commenting here is because I really like this blog and how it describes the alpha beta complex and I sent it to this other man and this was his reply: "I'm sorry, but this is complete bullshit. You can't put things in such black and white terms. Whoever wrote this has no concept of individual or human capacity. I would rather not waste my time reading these pointless emails." I wold like to know what anyone who agrees with the content of this blog has to say about this, and possibly what I could say back to him. I understand that this guy might just be a lost cause and have to figure everything out for himself when his life becomes unbearable due to his neglantace of being an alpha male and neglantace of his sexual needs and by trying to be a man he is not supposed to be, but if it's possible I would like to save him from a fate worse than death ^_^ Also, since I believe he has trouble with the idea that his family and friends and society expects him to have a girl of his own and has been raised to be a gentleman and to not cheat and everything expected of beta males, I would like to know if any one has any tips or thoughts to help him overcome that expectation. Thanks so much, Schkai Scheer
Anon. 2017-01-29 12:03:56
I would suggest an approach based on these two principles: 1. If you want to save someone, spend your effort on someone who actually wants to be saved. 2. If you want to have sex with that man, do so but let him make his own choices in life.
Schkai Scheer 2017-01-29 21:22:24
Thank you, Anon. That is in general very good advice, and I do believe he does want "to be saved" but does not know how to help his girlfriend understand that she is in a relationship with an alpha male who needs/wants to fuck around but who also thinks that he should not and cannot since he is in a relationship with her and has promised her he would not. That is in general very good advice, and I do believe he does want "to be saved" but does not know how to help his girlfriend understand that she is in a relationship with an alpha male who needs/wants to fuck around but who also thinks that he should not and cannot since he is in a relationship with her and has promised her he would not. I would love to, but I may also need to work on becoming a more confident woman in fucking around, and I have also accepted that by allowing him to make his own lifestyle choices that it could mean never seeing or fucking him again, since he is choosing to be in a circumstance which he does not feel able to do so. I also understand that I may just need to find someone else that I want to be with, but I would like to continue to be able to help him understand that he is an alpha regardless of whether I ever get the chance to see or be with him again. I also understand that I cannot and should not push anything on anyone, but I was moreso looking to see what people's thoughts were on the matter of alpha males believing that they can be the mythical submissive alpha, or at least they should suffer trying. And also I was curious what people thought about what a man I know said after being presented with the content of this article. Thanks again though, Anon, you've offered me some very good basic advice ^_^
Wolfgang Sprung Jr. 2017-02-16 07:22:02
This is likely the reason I"ll be 45 on March 11 and I'm still single. Women don't see that the more difficult they make it for us the more difficult it becomes for them right back.
Katie 2017-02-28 20:11:55
I've been in a LTR with what you'd call a beta for 8 years. He's loving, kind, patient, unselfish and considerate. He does compliment me a lot, takes out the trash, washes the dishes, and will do anything to keep me. The catch here is I'm not bored. Aside from being a "nice guy," he's cute, smart, funny and interesting. We have fun together every day and after 8 years, I still get butterflies when I haven't seen him for hours. He's fucking great in bed - I'm into BDSM and he's dominant. He turns me on so much he can pretty much time when I'll cum. I don't walk all over him. I've taught him to stand up to me when he's not okay with something. I'm independent and make my own money -- I'm his breadwinner and pay for dates. I'm an alpha woman; he's a beta. But he's amazing in every way; the only man I've ever been with who's man enough to be proud of me when I succeed. He makes my heart skip a beat. I'm writing this because I resent the fact that you call woman petty and delusional in only want alpha males they can "beat into submission." Every man and woman is a human being with different relationship requirements. There are more than 3 options, and more than 1 type of woman.
Blackdragon 2017-03-01 11:10:43
I’m an alpha woman; he’s a beta.Clearly. How many times have you cheated on him? (Not that I expect an honest answer.)
Katie 2017-03-01 16:23:22
I have honestly never cheated on him. I'm sure you will say you don't believe me.
Blackdragon 2017-03-01 16:35:38
I have honestly never cheated on him. I’m sure you will say you don’t believe me.I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I am saying there's likely more to the story you're leaving out. (He's cheated on you, or there was a separation or some other problems at some point in the marriage, or something else like this.) The only other aspect to this is to see how long you last before you get divorced or cheat. Eight years is a very long time for an Alpha woman to be married to a submissive beta with no divorce and no cheating. Statistically, the odds for one of these things in your near future are extremely high (if, again, they haven't happened already).
Katie 2017-03-01 17:35:05
We're actually dating, not married 🙂 We haven't had a problem yet, but I also can't say we won't in the future. All I'm saying is that it has been 8 years and I'm still very much in love with a beta male. Not EVERY women wants the unicorn alpha male that's secretly beta just for them. That's not the case for me or many of my female friends -- but maybe I only make friends with women who are like me. And yes, I'm aware you haven't actually said the words "every" woman, but by using "women" to signify the whole modern Western female population, that's what you're implying.
Disagree 2017-03-03 04:33:41
I don't think submissive alpha male is a myth. They do exist. The reason you don't hear about them is because there is no reason to. The logic is very similar to that explained in this video (not related to the topic). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ907Aa7TYE Another problem I have is the 'context' of alpha and beta. It's not that black and white. A man with a deeper personality and high self-esteem has a complex set of traits. We are not gorillas...right? For example, I can be submissive (in my sense of the word) with a woman by listening to her shit and sharing some of my own emotions with her. Most of the time, I listen to her suggestions patiently and carefully. Now you're thinking that I must be a 'greater beta' or just a fake alpha or something like that...right? HAHA. That's the point I want to make. I listen to her shit and share my feelings with her because I like to treat her as a fellow human being. Does that mean I am a little pussy? Similarly, I easily get ATLEAST one opportunity per month to cheat but I don't because I respect her(if I promised this girl monogamy). If I really get sick of her then I dump and move on. No hard feelings. Sometimes people tend to be sensitive and kind to others out of PURE RESPECT and care for a fellow being. If that make a man less masculine or ALPHA then your definition is skewed. You're probably hurting more young men instead of educating them by giving them a wrong definition of masculinity . There's a difference between being a man and being an animal, my friend. http://scottbarrykaufman.com/the-myth-of-the-alpha-male/
Blackdragon 2017-03-03 13:32:23
I don’t think submissive alpha male is a myth. They do exist. The reason you don’t hear about them is because there is no reason to.That might explain why I haven't heard of them, but why have I never seen one? I've known and met thousands of men. Haven't seen one. I realize that's anecdotal, but that's got to mean something.
Another problem I have is the ‘context’ of alpha and beta. It’s not that black and white. A man with a deeper personality and high self-esteem has a complex set of traits. We are not gorillas…right? For example, I can be submissive (in my sense of the word) with a woman by listening to her shit and sharing some of my own emotions with her. Most of the time, I listen to her suggestions patiently and carefully.I addressed that here.
excellence 2017-05-12 02:22:54
Hi BD, First time reader of your blog. There is something I was thinking about after reading your article and the comments until it was finally hit upon by @ bongstar420 says Its that the two behavioral patterns (alpha and beta) are mutually exclusive to women…IE, the more you do one, the more compromised your station as the other becomes. You can’t do both because she won’t be able to discern if you are “truely” one or the other which is what she does subconsciously. If you do both, she will determine one or the other independent of your control. Whilst on an intellectual level women can appreciate nuances and another persons ability to show empathy etc., once in the dating/relationship mindset women (in general) seem to have this subconcious, biological need t0 classify their man into boxes.... completely binary, "is he a man, or not", "is he strong or weak" In my experience, more emotional women are more prone to this thought process. Which is tough since more emotional women can often be sweeter, more seductive and loving (and obviously, more fun). As an intellectual man (untrained in dealing with women), being around a woman behaving like this, it is tempting to let all guards down, empathise with her openly, to think she needs our understanding and entertain a reparte in which you can see the best in the world, feel sorry for the weak, and be very accomodating and tolerant to others in a social situation. BUT. All the while she is judging your behaviour, she is classifying you by that biological binary thought process in which alpha males do not show compassion, show weakness, admit they are wrong, put up with emotional drama or ever let another get one over on them. Whilst you believe you are showing her your civilization and empathy she is in fact downgrading your SMV in real time. And even worse, once you've been downgraded, there are no upgrades. Trying to reframe her opinion of you is close to impossible. I wanted to add BD, and I appreciate your need to use labels in order to get your point across, that there are other options available to women, but, due to their inability to conceive that a man can swing between Alpha and Beta behaviours, they can only perceive the three options you mentioned. That distinction is important as there will be many guys who see themselves as some combination of traits and therefore wont identify with the article or see its validity.
Joshua Fields 2017-05-22 19:59:01
I would rather be single and jack off till my dying day than be either Alpha or Beta male. I have qualities of both and If a woman cannot love me for who I am and what I bring to the table she can gladly get the fuck out of my life.
Alexandra Stevens 2017-09-18 04:43:09
I agree with you about monogamy. It's not natural for most men and a significant percentage of women as well. However, more women are OK with it and therein lies a problem. I am a woman who has never had a monogamous relationship and wouldn't try. However, where you are wrong is in thinking that being an "Alpha male" means being an asshole and that there is no such thing as an equal relationship. There are certainly many relationships where one party or the other sets the rules, but it is entirely possible for two people who are both Alphas to come to an agreement that works for both of them. That's what my marriage was like and I'd still be married if he hadn't been killed in an accident. I don't want a man who "does what I say" but I also don't want a man who treats me like shit. Those are not the only choices.
Nick 2017-12-08 11:27:23
lol at this article. 90% of the "alpha guys" are fakes and too quick to throw around labels and create false arguments like "the ONLY options she has..." while suggesting that a male is either full beta or full alpha - just funny it's so simpleminded. I do think monogamy should be questioned by both genders, but it has worked for many males and has its benefits over sleeping around. The thought a guy that wants to be married long term, sacrificing sex with others, will not keep his wife entertained is borderline insane. In fact, it's likely that guy will fly her all over the place to keep her IF the authors weird vision of a beta, alpha WITH NO IN BETWEEN is true (it's not).
Lady 2018-01-10 21:06:52
update: I am the above poster "Lady" from March 30, 2016. Reading through what I said, I cringed, but I still stand by it. It was all true at the time. All the love and idolizations, all the co-dependency. I left him last January. I finally had enough of him being an asshole. It was my fault for blindly worshipping him. My fault for thinking that that is the way love really looks. You were right. He did cheat on me. I didn't find out until after I left, but I found out and it was multiple women. He had the girl he had been fucking in the new house we had just built (that I designed and loved) a week after I was out the door. As if I never meant anything to him other than what my body could do for him and the status it offered to him to have an adoring, loving wife. What I don't understand about rereading all these comments and your information is how you separate having women on the side from being in a loving, respectful marriage. If they have an upfront agreement, straight off the bat, that's one thing. But to hide it from her? And expect her to just take it because he's an Alpha male and she should be so lucky? My ex may have been masculine in appearance and demeanor--- but he wasn't a real man. I don't care if he worked hard, could protect me from physical harm and was classically handsome. A man who openly disrespects his woman, verbally abuses her and cheats on her is no kind of man I ever want to know. I am doing what I can to heal and move away from being attracted to the asshole Alpha type. I'm better than that-- and I believe there are men out there who are just as manly and attractive and kind as I desire, and they could give a fuck about appearing to be this confident, manly man who thinks they are better than everyone else because they are ruled by their cocks and not by their souls. It's a mask they wear, to hide the hurt and broken people that they really are. He didn't break me, though he damn well tried. I am stronger than that. My life is better now and will only continue to be. I am starting to understand that I have to be happy with who I am and become the person I am want into my life. Honesty, kindness, respect, laughter, genuine love, generosity, patience. These are the things I have to be first. If I truly embody these things and I meet a man who does not, and he tries to form a relationship with me, then I love myself enough to turn away from that. Peace out!
Blackdragon 2018-01-10 22:07:04
Lady, I'm going to devote an entire upcoming post to your comments.
the only man 2018-01-15 16:11:21
lady you should go back to that man because he is the alpha male and you need to get down on hands and knees and kiss his feet and beg him to fogive you because you was not a 100 pecent woman then you need to fulfill you womanly duties and make that man his food and fetch his booze
hopeseekr 2019-02-06 00:45:19
I apparently don't exist then.
GG 2020-01-08 15:07:00
In the minds of those who are not out there in the mix of those who live lifestyle relationships, I surely do not expect anything other then what has been posted here. I live in this lifestyle. When you are not connected you can not possibly understand and accept that this 'alpha submissive male' exist. The reality is that many submissive alpha males love conforming to the demands and lifestyle of their Dominant female partner. These submissive alpha males are wildly successful, intelligent, and ambitious, to the outside world, however once they return home they submit fully to their Dominant Female partner/wife. Many of these submissive alpha males go without intercourse and are quiet happy with their desires and lifestyle. To them She is the most important and Her happiness, comfort and making Her life easier is what they strive for. They give up all control and power to Her, they hand over everything and entrust Her in all ways. Many times he is a cuckold husband. Often he never penetrates Her, and that is what they agree to. Of course, this lifestyle does happen over night. They have many conversations and find common ground and come to an agreement and often write their agreement in contract form. This lifestyle is way better than any traditional relationship, both people get what they need and want out of the relationship. The comment about the alpha male being the stud in the bedroom is not typically going to happen. This alpha male excepts that he has it going on in many other areas of his life and can provide a great life for Her, but he knows, understands, desires, and seeks to be kept locked up and without traditional intercourse with his partner/wife. She can have all the intercourse She desires and when agreed to initially She may have many partners or one partner with whom She only has intercourse with. Submissive alpha males exist. Most are not going to admit to their lifestyle choice and have a difficult time finding the right Woman who is a great match for their needs. On the same note, the Women who seek out these submissive alpha males are quiet particular with whom they choose. Neither one advertise their needs and desires, although, those in the circle find a way to connect. There are certain rules those of us who live this lifestyle live by, we respect those among us and do not advertise our lifestyle and never push it upon those who can not possibly understand our needs, wants and desires. Although, for the record those of us who live this lifestyle are enjoying life to the fullest. Two free sites in which you may find submissive alpha males are fetlife.com and collarspace.com I do believe an introduction to the other way of life is possibly needed. Just because you do not see it does not mean it is not real. Think about all those who believe in God, they believe even though they have seen their God. Note: he may rule with his alpha power in his career and in the exterior world where he is successful, but when he gets home he bows at My feet and kisses them to show his gratitude and respect to Me. he is at My beck and call always 24/7. Does this make him less alpha, absolutely not, it shows the strength he holds within him and his desire, devotion and love toward Me. he lives and provides the best possible life he can for Me and I devote My everything to him. Our trust, dedication, devotion and loyalty to each other goes much deeper than any other type of relationship I have ever seen or experienced.