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There Is No Hookup Culture
-By Caleb Jones
It’s all a bunch of inaccurate, hyped-up, fear mongering BS. I will explain.
We Don’t Have a Hookup Culture in the United States
...and I can prove it. Take a minute and go read the article I recently wrote right here. Look at the stats I quoted, and read their sources. Carefully. Seriously, go read it, then come back. I'll wait.
Did you read it? Did you see the stats? The stats are very clear on this: Americans don’t have very much sex. This includes men, women, young people, old people, married people, and single people. I will repeat: this includes young single people. All this hand-wringing about the “hookup culture” is silly as it is inaccurate.
I have sex around three times a week on average, but statistically speaking I am a very bizarre, high-end exception to the rule. If you get into the habit of reading a bunch of PUA or manosphere sites, or if you read stupid articles like the linked one above, or if you constantly swipe super-hot attention whores on Tinder, you start to get the skewed perception that “everyone is getting laid except me.”
Untrue. Very few Americans are having sex on a regular basis (and most Europeans aren’t that much better). We manosphere bloggers are a statistically extreme exception.
A “hookup culture” would mean that any normal young person can whip up a smartphone app and then go get laid very quickly with someone cute whenever he/she wanted. Is this the case?
Nope. Very clearly this is not the case. If it were, I wouldn’t be selling any ebooks. My entire Blackdragon business would go out of business pretty damn fast.
What about the people who do get laid on Tinder? Surely there must be something to this story?
Tinder has followed the exact same product cycle as any other dating technology, albeit much faster than has historically been the case. Here are the five phases any dating technology always goes through:
1. Early adopters
3. Normal effectiveness
5. Effective only for a small, specific group of people.
Every dating technology has followed this five-stage cycle. Let’s take Match.com as just one example.
1. First it came out and there were a few early adopters. It languished for about 10 years, not doing much.
2. Then, during the 2002-2005 timeframe, it became hyper-effective. Normal, everyday guys, as long as they weren’t hideous looking, could go on Match.com back then and quickly and easily rack up lays almost like seasoned PUAs. Back then, one of my brothers, a normal, everyday guy in his late 30s, had sex with five different women on Match.com in less than about ten months. Around the same time, a co-worker of mine, a normal dude with normal game, accomplished the same. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. I was astounded.
Unfortunately, I was married at the time, so I missed this window.
3. Around 2006, it went from hyper-effective to normal. I was divorced in 2007 and started dating. Match.com was one of the sites I used, and I got laid, though not nearly as easily as the 2002-05 guys had it.
4. Around 2011, Match.com entered the fourth phase and started getting problematic. They added a bunch of filters, many women left the site, response rates went down, etc.
5. Today, Match.com has entered its fifth phase. It's really only effective for over-30 beta males looking to get over-30 divorced women as serious girlfriends or wives. For that niche, it works very well. For everyone else, it’s pretty rough. I’m not saying that you can’t get laid on Match if you’re outside of this niche, but you’re going to have to work really hard at it.
Plenty of Fish went through the same exact five phases, though much more quickly than Match. If you’ve been reading this blog, you know all about that already. It used to be easy as hell on there, now it sucks. Sugar daddy dating sites are currently moving from phase 2 (hyper-effectiveness) to phase 3 (normal effectiveness). Older men who don't mind throwing a little money around are having a good time on these sites, but soon these sites will suck too. (And then something new will replace them.)
Every dating technology you can think of, from video dating services in the 1980s all the way to Tinder today go through these five phases. It's normal, natural, and nothing to get freaked out about.
Tinder has also gone through these five phases even more quickly than POF did. Tinder used to be absolutely fantastic...for about a year and a half. It went from early adoption, hyper-effectiveness, normal effectiveness, and problems, and now it is what it is.
What is Tinder now? I would argue that right now, mid-2015, in most (but not all) major cities, Tinder is for hot, young (or youngish) men to hook up with hot, young women. I’m a non-hot, older guy, thus Tinder is a complete waste of time for me at this point. I won’t get laid on there at all (at least not with young hotties). Yet, I can still go on OKCupid and have sex with younger women with little problem (albeit with dramatically reduced responses rates from five years ago, since OKCupid itself is going through the five phases).
Tinder is a waste of time for me, but it still works with the hot-younger-guy niche.
This all circles back to my main point. The only “hookup culture” America has right now is with a teeny tiny subculture of certain hot, young(ish), city-dwelling men who use Tinder. That’s it. No one else is having much sex (outside of Alpha/manosphere/PUA dudes). The problem here is that hot, youngish guys have always been having sex with hot young chicks, far before Tinder or even the internet was ever invented.
Back in the 1980s, I know plenty of hot, young guys who were fucking tons of hot young chicks, and no one was screaming about a “hookup culture”. Why? Because back then, you couldn’t pick up a phone and swipe through a bunch of attention whores, so it was out of sight, out of mind. But it was still happening.
Crime rates in the United States have plummeted since the 1970s, yet if you took a survey of typical Americans, they will report that crime rates are just as bad, if not worse. WTF?
Why is this? Because of all the fearmongering Americans see on the news and the internet all day. It creates the perception of crime, when, in fact, crime has actually decreased dramatically. This “hookup culture” crap is the same thing.
Am I saying hot, younger people are getting laid less than in the 1980s? I don’t know if I’d go that far, but again, look at the stats.
One might argue: “Well BD, of course the stats are showing less people are having sex. Less beta males are having sex because the hot Alphas are getting all the girls!”
I know it might feel that way, the same way it feels like Republicans make government smaller (when in fact they always make it bigger), but you're demonstrably wrong (assuming you're talking about the US; I'm not talking about other countries). Here’s why:
1. The stats show that women are having less sex too (including younger women), not just men. So that blows your theory. If you were right, the stats would clearly indicate that young women (on average) were having more sex but young men (on average) were having less.
2. Good looking Alpha males have ALWAYS fucked more women and better-looking women than betas. Beta males have ALWAYS gotten the short end of the stick, sexually speaking. This has been the case for decades, if not centuries. It has nothing to do with Tinder.
Could Tinder exacerbate this distribution? Sure, but statistically it’s barely made a dent. Again, just like with long-term monogamy not working, the stats clearly back up what I’m saying regardless of your personal feelings on the matter.
The solution here is very simple. If you aren’t a super-hot, young(ish) Alpha male, don’t use Tinder. I don’t. Use daygame, use dating sites (dating sites, not dating apps), or if you have the lifestyle for it, use night game. Problem solved. If you have no idea where to start, read this. Yes, all styles of game have become more difficult lately because of left-wing governmental support structures, stronger women, and weaker men, but I’ve already addressed that.
Despite the hype, things are the same way they’ve been for a long, long time, which is:
1. Not many Americans are having sex. That includes both genders of all ages.
2. Of the ones having sex, good looking, younger Alphas are having sex with a disproportionate number of women as compared to uglier, average-looking betas.
3. Betas aren’t getting laid much unless it’s to ugly or bossy women who dominate them.
4. Any beta out there reading these words has the option of improving himself and becoming an Alpha so that he can have sex with higher quality women more easily. I am a living proof of this.
It been like this for hundreds of years, it's like this today, and it will be like this in the future.
Don’t believe the hype.
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Al 2015-08-20 05:07:38
Lots of rubbish in the press on pretty well every subject. All single women, of whatever age, go shopping. It's a good place to meet them. 😀
MrAllaThatShit 2015-08-20 05:29:37
Great read BD. I cringe slightly every time I see "hookup culture" in a headline. But I guess writers don't get paid unless they fabricate & exaggerate stories. P.S. I spend my winters in Rio. Dating THERE is a TRUE hookup culture!!
Bobby 2015-08-20 07:35:42
Excellent article Sir 🙂 Yes, Tinder is just a bunch of bullshit now. "Hookup culture' is a bunch of bullshit too. There are Mostly only attention whores on Tinder. I like the ones that write "No Hookups" on their profile. WTF are you doing on Tinder then??? When something is new (like Tinder once was) people flock to it and since it's new and exciting they really explore it to its fullest, and therefore it works (for a little while). After some time passes, people get used to it and it looses its sheen. At this point they just turn it into whatever they want. In the case of Tinder, it has become the instant gratification tool for the attention whores. Getting a Match with a good looking guy is like getting 100 likes on Facebook for posting a cute selfie, only better.
Drew 2015-08-20 08:19:26
Good points. I agree with the match.com analysis and benefited from that in the early 2000's but it has definitely petered out since then. Tinder is a major tease b/c yes there are some incredibly hot women on that app but its quite possible they are just looking for attention. I've got numerous matches with real women on Tinder but I can't get anyone to actually meet up. I used to live in NYC and mention to my male friends about how 'there ain't no sex in the f-ing city'. Surely people were/are getting laid there but nowhere close to how it is portrayed on that stupid show. We Americans love to torture ourselves - what a mind job puritanism has put on to people in this country, even in the year 2015. The Europeans have us beat in this area by a long shot tho (Netherlands, Germany, Belgium etc). Sex in general is not shamed and there are many legal, safe and economical outlets to get some 'touch' if one wants to skip all the game and get right to it. The downside of 'hooking up' is the emotional entanglements that usually result - and if you live in a mid-size town like I do, you are likely gonna run into the same people again... I just discovered your site and have not read all your posts, but imho, the best game in America is to get in front of people - what I call the 'Rock star syndrome'. Your target has to be in the audience of course. The second best thing is to bring a female with you whenever you go out. That works like kryptonite on them, especially if the girl/woman you are with is attractive.
billyboy 2015-08-20 08:34:37
Spot on article, BD. I saw a female friend post this on facebook and had to hold my tongue. If you re-read the article, it's CLEAR it has an agenda and female-targeted audience. It literally reads like a work of pure fiction. Like ... let's take a modern women's GREATEST FEARS and weave them into one article, to make them panic and spread it around. Oh hear's Chad, and Tate, the rich finance guys ... and here's Joe, the blue-collar regular every-man --- each and every one is getting blown on Tinder repeatedly, that's how it is now. 'Sex' and 'vagina' as a commodity has hit rock-bottom prices. "Bill" can get blown by 10 hooker-esque supermodels at the click of a button, and loathes relationships (of which he only enters to get sex anyway). This is because of technology and 'culture' of course - let's ignore economic and biological realities. Poor Katherine, reading this article --- how will you find a husband now? 'Dating' life is over ... your one commodity ... sex ... doesn't mean much any more .... the horror! Share this to 1000 of your friends for our ad revenue! .... Yeah. Total and absolute bunk. By the way I have had women ask me for dick pics all the time, and I'm not well-endowed or particularly good-looking. Yeah, I'm surprised as you are, perhaps, but there are horny women out there with weird turns on like everyone else. Quote from article: “And it’s just like, waking up in beds, I don’t even remember getting there, and having to get drunk to have a conversation with this person because we both know why we’re there but we have to go through these motions to get out of it. That’s a personal struggle, I guess, but online dating makes it happen that much more. Whereas I would just be sitting at home and playing guitar, now it’s ba-ding”—he makes the chirpy alert sound of a Tinder match—“and … ” He pauses, as if disgusted. “ … I’m fucking.” TELL me that isn't completely fabricated by a woman writer. I dare you.
Sean 2015-08-20 09:17:24
BD, as always, a great article. What technology is working, these days? Match, OKC, and PoF are pretty weak. I hope you have some good info based on your clients and other observations.
CrabRangoon 2015-08-20 10:28:36
BD, since we're discussing dating sites here, I'd be interested in your opinion on the recent Ashley Madison hack job. I feel an unintended consequence, after all the screaming about the infidelity dies down, will be to prove your point about long term monogamy being a joke. The fact this site exists says a lot on its own but seeing the sheer numbers of people on the site will drive it home. Now the requisite drama will ensue with mass divorces, breakups and rage. This may be a whole blog post on its own. If we become more open minded and realistic about long term monogamy, I believe we won't even need sites like this with all the sneaking around.
tonystark 2015-08-20 11:07:22
This fucking vanity fair article. Goddammit. It was clear bullshit since the moment it was written, and now so many articles reference it like it holds some kind of truth. I'd say OKC is still working, but the decline has been apparent since last year and the year before that. Hell the changes they make, don't make it any better. I'd like to hear BD's take.
I feel an unintended consequence, after all the screaming about the infidelity dies down, will be to prove your point about long term monogamy being a joke.More than likely. Or just complete denial. I hope so though, if only for the sheer irony - the militant pro-monogamy hackers achieving the opposite of what they set out to accomplish.
Oh Yes 2015-08-20 15:11:21
Funniest thing about the VF article was all the women complaining that it is just all about the sex, and if he even texts you back they feel like they hit the jackpot. Did nobody ever tell these dumbass broads that all they have to do is close their legs and not put out for every chode they meet? Is it really that hard for them to understand? Just say no for gods sake. And I second the idea that the article was mostly made up BS from some feminist writer.
Blackdragon 2015-08-20 15:57:41
I spend my winters in Rio. Dating THERE is a TRUE hookup culture!Haha! Hell yeah!
We Americans love to torture ourselves – what a mind job puritanism has put on to people in this country, even in the year 2015.You nutshelled it. Well said.
I just discovered your site and have not read all your posts, but imho, the best game in America is to get in front of people – what I call the ‘Rock star syndrome’. Your target has to be in the audience of course.Yes but 95-99% of normal men will not every be able to do that. I like to teach techniques that are repeatable by any normal guy.
If you re-read the article, it’s CLEAR it has an agenda and female-targeted audience.I didn't mention that, but yes, very good point.
What technology is working, these days? Match, OKC, and PoF are pretty weak.Those three sites still "work," they're just less effective. I still get laid on Match and OKC regularly, though my response rates are lower, POF semi-regularly. The only "easy" way to get laid via technology right this minute is sugar daddy dating sites, but the problem there is A) younger and/or lower-income men aren't going to be able to make those work, B) you have to get accustomed to shelling out $100-$200 every time you want to get laid, even if you're not paying the women directly (instead spending it on fancier dates, Uber, etc) and lots of guys (like me) won't be interested in doing that as a long-term method to get sex. Don't worry. Very shortly something new will come along that will make it all easy again, just like Tinder did for a while.
BD, since we’re discussing dating sites here, I’d be interested in your opinion on the recent Ashley Madison hack job. I feel an unintended consequence, after all the screaming about the infidelity dies down, will be to prove your point about long term monogamy being a jokeYep, that's pretty much my opinion on it. Moreover, the majority of men on sugar daddy sites are married guys. Places like Seeing Arrangement have become the "new" Ashley Madison. Society already knows long-term monogamy is a joke. They've known that for quite a while. Getting them to actually admit it, that will take more time. Too many Disney-infested women and right-wing men are going to fight admitting this reality every step of the way, but it will eventually happen.
Amanda 2015-08-20 19:32:10
I have no personal experience with online dating, but people were screaming about "hookup culture" back when I was in college 10 years ago. At the time I never heard guys complain about it - it was considered to be an AWESOME thing for men, and not just the top men; betas got laid regularly too (though not nearly as often). Instead, many women (myself included) were upset at the time because while we were having fun, we felt it was harder to find relationship-minded men, since it seemed like everyone was just hooking up. There were plenty of relationships and even marriages though; it was just less common among the good-looking, partying crowd. I'll also add that few people stayed in this so-called hookup culture for longer than a year or two, as it seemed to be something of a novelty caused by being on our own for the first time. In retrospect, I think it was just "young people having fun" as they did in the past and will in the future, and not some new, scary phenomenon.
rgz 2015-08-20 22:59:15
What dating technology is currently in the hyper-effectiveness faze? What about normal effectiveness? It would seem like if we could focus efforts on these aspects things would be much easier.
Blackdragon 2015-08-20 23:42:32
What dating technology is currently in the hyper-effectiveness faze? What about normal effectiveness?As I said above, I know of none right now with the possible exception of the sugar daddy stuff. The technique now is to be on many dating sites (and apps, if you wish) and hit them all (which frankly, is what I've always recommended anyway). In the meantime, I'm patiently waiting for the next new thing to come around and catch on. Then we can ride the hyper-effectiveness phase (again). This doesn't bother me too much since I'm only in sarging mode about once every 18-24 months these days, which is the way I like it.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet 2015-08-21 07:40:42
Here we go again. You're kidding yourself. The article is 100% on point. I can GPS spoof NYC right now and get a chick to agree to sex with me in 15 minutes. At this stage I'm probably the leading expert on Tinder online outside of the company itself, dating agencies pay me to get guys results, so I know the score. I can calculate swipe rates etc. and see exactly what is going on behind the scenes from the math. A good looking guy in NYC will have 6000 matches a weekend to work with... SIX THOUSAND IN A WEEKEND. He can easily run a 10 girl harem, he can drown in a sea of pointless pussy. Here's a screenshot of 3 of my tinder accounts (note the match counts): [url]http://i.imgur.com/ZJeJJkk.png[/url] You can order women like they're pizza's in NYC if you're a good looking guy, and guys are doing exactly that, hence the article. If you're not getting laid off tinder, then understand that a few percent are absolutely SMASHING IT, they are the reason you aren't getting laid on there, and the reason it has become even harder to pick-up in bars, nightclubs etc. than it was even 10 years ago. These guys are getting unlimited sex, 100-200 women a year in NYC, EASY, you're only limited by your time. In some cities I fall in that few percent of lucky guys, in others I do not, it all depends on the competition and what the market wants, NYC is definitely one of the cities where women love what I'm selling. This whole hyper-effectiveness phase is just the lag period before the good looking Alphas figure out the game and then totally monopolize the pussy. IOW the percentages skew upward. All of those 'no-hookups' and 'attention whores' will give it up super quick for the top few percent of guys. There used to be a time when these guys had to actually approach and other guys could cheat the market by approaching more, not anymore, as I said, technology continues to skew the percentages upward. Similar to how years ago a local bricks and mortar store could overcharge for something (cheat the market) because you couldn't just buy it off the internet. Not anymore. Technology makes markets more efficient and harder to 'cheat', including the dating market, and the natural order of things in the dating market is the top 5% of guys getting all the pussy. ALL of those sites are super effective still for the top few percent. Yes, SD dating is effective now because as the percentages skew upward the cost of pussy for the other 95% gets higher and HIGHER, but as other avenues get tougher and the regular guy finds it harder and harder to get laid, suddenly you'll be competing with good looking, successful guys who are willing to PAY for pussy. So the price will continue to rise. All of this has a flow on effect on the effectiveness of every other form of game, then of course women tend to be serial monogamists. So they'll be 1 of 10 women in 'love' with Mr good looking alpha she met on tinder and closed off to the rest of the market for that time, while he commands a harem giving him sex sometimes multiple times a day. I'll be in NYC next year and my wife has given me a 2 week hall pass, so I'll be plowing through the 1000-2000 matches I get there a weekend, hopefully the percentages haven't skewed so far upward by then that even I'm cut out of the hook-up market there.
Diggy 2015-08-21 09:03:04
I’m only in sarging mode about once every 18-24 months these days,And in between you day game and have a strong retention level? How many women are on the BD rotation at any given time?
Blackdragon 2015-08-21 10:27:11
George - I'm not sure you realize it, but you're essentially saying exactly what I said in my blog post about the small percentage of men (good-looking youngish Alphas) who get laid on Tinder. Thank you for helping prove my point.
And in between you day game and have a strong retention level?In between I don't game at all. And yes, my retention level is strong plus I have a very large "roster" now of returning women.
How many women are on the BD rotation at any given time?3-4. Right now I have a few more because I just did a blitz in June, but it will "settle" to 3-4 soon.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet 2015-08-21 10:59:23
I’m not sure you realize it, but you’re essentially saying exactly what I said in my blog post about the small percentage of men (good-looking youngish Alphas) who get laid on Tinder. Thank you for helping prove my point.Yes. I realize it. But other guys aren't getting laid not because they don't want to, they're not getting laid because they CAN'T. And it's getting harder and harder for them, because of those good looking, youngish Alphas. This has always happened to an extent, true, but thanks to technology like tinder the problem is exacerbated. So now you've got the vast majority of western women getting all their sex through the hook-up culture on Tinder and alike and forgoing relationships, and 5% of guys enjoying the benefit. There's ALOT of sex going on, and a massive hook-up culture sweeping the west, it's not a myth, the hook-up culture is stronger than ever just that you have to either be female or one of the top 5% of males to be a part of it. Any female can pick up her phone and be a part of the hook-up culture right now. Your 'solutions' for non-super good looking young alphas are getting harder and harder to achieve as these super good looking men command bigger and bigger harems. How can you say there is no hook-up culture? Just because you and 95% of men aren't allowed into the club?
Duke 2015-08-21 11:22:59
George, what your saying is true of course, but no need to keep repeating as you also said all of this stuff while discussing the dismal situation in Australia in the other thread . Your alarmism is way out of hand. No offense but you seem to be a little obsessed with this subject, it might be time for a new mission in life that has nothing to do with pussy.
Five Six 2015-08-21 12:02:29
The thing is that plenty of women on Tinder are NOT using it for hookups... how many are versus aren't? I get complimented all the time by women for my looks, yet my game hasn't given me the ability to hook up for a ONS from tinder ever. Actually, I'm unsure if it's my game, my standards, and/or if it's bad matching luck. What's the male/female ratio on Tinder anyway?
Bobby 2015-08-21 12:21:34
I think George and BD are more or less in agreement here, but BD perhaps has a more positive (or healthier) way of looking at things. I would rather be like BD and think that if I apply myself and work at improving myself (and therefore my odds of scoring), then I can crack the system just enough to be very happy. Thinking that everything is doomed and nobody outside that 5% has any shot is not helpful in my opinion.
BH 2015-08-21 13:22:37
I don't know who's right. I'd just rather be in that 5% and not have to worry about it. And goddamnit I can and WILL get to that 5%.
Blackdragon 2015-08-21 19:52:50
So now you’ve got the vast majority of western women getting all their sex through the hook-up culture on Tinder and alike and forgoing relationships, and 5% of guys enjoying the benefit.The vast majority of western women are on Tinder?? You've gone off the rails. (Seriously, are you even listening to yourself?) Don't answer that. Like I said, let's agree to disagree. Amazing.
Your alarmism is way out of hand. No offense but you seem to be a little obsessed with this subjectYeah, unfortunately "alarmist" was exactly the word I was thinking as I was reading his comments, but we have to remember that his view of the world is represented by at least 50-60% of the manosphere, if not more. These are guys who are A) mad, B) want to be mad, C) are always actively looking for reasons to be mad (even if they don't exist, or in this case, have always existed). I love these guys; they're my brothers and I wish them all well, but all I can do is quote the facts and the stats and let people make up their own minds. If he wants to believe the vast majority of western women are getting all their sex from Tinder(??), he's welcome to that belief.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet 2015-08-21 22:31:57
The vast majority of western women are on Tinder??You're right of course, I'm over the top dramatizing things again, it's not the majority but there's still a heck of alot on Tinder and ALIKE (which is actually what I said) So POF, OKC, and other dating sites are all hook up sites too, if you're in the top 5% of men and know what you're doing. Many of these same women that will say they're not looking for hook-ups and want a relationship will hook up with these guys regardless of what their profiles say while making the other guys wait for it. As for raw Tinder numbers: ~30,000 single 18-30 women on Tinder in a 10 mile radius from central Sydney, and that's just the ones that have 30yo guy's in their filter settings (the ones I can see), so there would be more. NYC has ~100,000 from memory. That's ALOT of women hunting that top few percent. Do they use it every day, week or even month? Nope, but whenever they're in the mood or that alpha they were seeing dumps them they'll fire it up and that next 5 percenter will be just a few swipes away.
Russ 2015-08-21 23:27:04
Hey WolfOfGeorgeStreet, what's the link to your Tinder business, or whatever it is, as I'm curious to check it out. I still wouldn't use Tinder though, only because as a guy, if you're not at least an 8 out of 10 in good looks terms, you're totally wasting your time using it, as you've correctly implied.
John 2015-08-22 00:51:45
I would take the women's stats with a grain of salt. Why on earth would an attractive chick withhold herself from sex, when she can just whip out her phone and get a Tinder match of a tall good looking guy ready for sex within a few minutes of swiping? There IS a hook up culture but only reserved for the top 5% of guys who can have as many chicks as they want, which I'm sure has always been the case. Apps like tinder have just made it a lot easier for chicks now to find the good looking guys without even having to leave the house and without having to go to nightclubs or bars. How on earth is an average 5 foot nothing guy supposed to compete with that? Hey Wolf just curious, with your NY swipes, are you putting down in your description that you're Aussie?
Minister 2015-08-22 07:41:47
I live in Greece, but one time I had switched my location to NY, I got easily 30 matches within 30 minutes of swiping. If you do the math, 3000 matches in one weekend, can be replicated. And I am not good looking, at all. I would describe myself as average, maybe slightly above average, thanks to my professional photo. NY is definitely the paradise of pussy. In my country, on the other hand, I will be lucky if I manage to make 50 likes a day and get one match a week, where this technology is not so widespread. Feel free to make your own conclusions.
Stoneage pua 2015-08-23 02:52:19
I am glad you wrote this,BD. The notion of "technology ruining the dating" comes from a group of pathetic omegas which frequent sites of roosh,rok and other similar
losersbloggers, who have nothing to do with PUA (and advices they give to men are very unhealthy).It's a "us against world"sort of philosophy (deeply ingrained in lives of roosh and likes since schoolyard days when bullies were taking their lunch money). As opposite to "world is my oyster" mentality. I have never felt that dating scene changed any different than it used to be 10 years ago.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet 2015-08-23 09:27:40
Tinder business, or whatever it is, as I’m curious to check it out.No business per se but you can check out my posts here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=167924021 I go by the username BRBMakingMoney
Hey Wolf just curious, with your NY swipes, are you putting down in your description that you’re Aussie?I've tried with and without that in my bio, it makes no difference, in fact having no bio at all doesn't make much difference in terms of your swipe rate. It tends to just encourage women to open you by giving them something to work off.
one time I had switched my location to NY, I got easily 30 matches within 30 minutes of swiping... NY is definitely the paradise of pussyIt is, it truly, truly is. It's the hook-up capital of the world. Followed by London and then Chicago in a distant third. Any decent looking guy is getting a hook-up there with a decent looking chick on a Friday or Saturday night within an hour if he knows what he's doing on Tinder. It really is that easy there, which is why I'll be heading there to party next year with a permanent move also on the cards. Now, set your location to Moscow, and prepare for your jaw to drop at the shear quality of your matches. If NYC is the hook-up capital of the world, Moscow is the beauty capital of the world. Guys should always keep in mind that pussy is commodity that is now easily available on a global market. If women in your local market are demanding to high of a price (multiple dates, too many rejections, too high standards etc.) for lower quality, move to a more favorable market. Apps like tinder, will easily help you find that market.
John 2015-08-23 18:10:33
Wolf, I wish I could chat to you on another platform and not hijack another thread, but why do you think you are getting far more matches in other countries and cities than that of Australia? I know here is a pain in the ass, but I'm amazed how skewed it is to other parts of the world. I've actually been researching other parts of the world to move to including Philippines and Thailand. I'm assuming you're using the same profile in all cases?
WolfOfGeorgeStreet 2015-08-24 03:40:36
John Of course I'm using the exact same profiles. email me at wolfofgeorgestreet (at) hotmail (dot) com I have a number of theories about Australia, and me and a few of the other guys with alot of Tinder/online success are unable to really replicate the success we get elsewhere. I do ok, but it's mostly with Euro/Foreign chicks, while elsewhere I crush it, and when I say crush it, I mean consistently closing models, strippers etc. I just tried hitting up the dating sites again and my results are abysmal in comparison. I'll run a profile in NYC or Chicago shortly and guarantee I will once again completely crush it. Australia seems to suffer from the following which negatively effect results here: - Horrible male/famle ratio in the 18-30 yo bracket, thanks in large part to massive 'skilled' immigration which is weighted towards men - An obesity rate worse than even in the US - Massive amounts of wealth and no wealth divide, no one is POOR in Australia in the US sense - Entrenched feminism and very equal opportunities for women in the workplace and economically - Majority of Australian women all seem to have exactly the same type, with very little variation (6'+, white, ripped, very good looking) - Many Australian women are not interested in ever getting married or finding a BF, or if they are, would rather end up alone ot just get a sperm donor and be a single mum than compromise on ANYTHING - We don't have a transient culture like in the US, where people are constantly moving from city to city, making cold approaches/online dating extremely effective there as they are really open to meeting new people, but those same techniques give us a low ROI here. Here women tend to meet partners through social circles (plenty of high quality men and great ratios for them) and any women that are on online dating sites are on there because they have impossible standards and are looking for something they couldn't find IRL, so it probably doesn't exist. Hence the low response rates from Aussie women but high response rates from foreign women that are a bit more reasonable and have just moved here (but so many other men are hungrily chasing these types too) - Extremely socialist environment with outrageous welfare entitlements and very influential unions, which makes it harder to compete on wealth, because that tall, super good looking, ripped labourer with no brains is working in the mines also earning $100k+ a year and willing to spend every last cent of it and then some (massive amounts of debt). So he's good looking, wealthy and stupid, the perfect combo for these women to play. How do you compete with someone who is wealthy, tall, good looking, ripped AND stupidly willing to blow all his cash and get into debt showering a girl with gifts, expensive dinners etc.? - Rampant non-monogamy and a hook-up culture that existed long before the US's (dating has never been big here for some time, nighclub/bar hook-ups that turned into relationships where often the norm), further skewing the percentages upward as a small few command multiple women and limiting the size of the 'single' female market Those are my thoughts on it all.
John 2015-08-24 03:57:32
Agree with you on most points there. I also think the women here are completely brainwashed by Hollywood, Disney and Reality TV, thinking they're going to one day bump into their soulmate and live happily ever after. I've had heaps of chicks tell me this and I'm completely gobsmacked at how deluded they are. Even had chicks tell me their psychic has been guiding them to find "the one", it's comical. Anyway I'm looking to check out Thailand and Philippines soon and then check out New York. Maybe the grass is greener on the other side........... Cheers
Anon 2015-08-24 07:00:09
From a statistical standpoint, it’s quite possible both BD and his opponents are correct, and whether there’s a hookup culture depends primarily on context. Game is all about selection, and selection implies bias. You first go to venues your preferred type of women frequents, you open ones you are attracted to, you find those receptive to your openers, and by the time it becomes apparent what the women are looking for, whether that’s hookups or something else, the set of women observed is not in the slightest representative of the general population. So it may well be the case that the society as a whole has no hookup culture, proving BD right, and yet when one starts actually interacting with women, the subset of women he reaches, depending on where and how he looks for them, may exhibit such a culture, proving Wolf of George Street right. And if the average woman in your city isn’t hookup-minded, but hot Tinder girls are, what does actually matter, the former or the latter?
POB 2015-08-24 08:39:34
What is Tinder now? I would argue that right now, mid-2015, in most (but not all) major cities, Tinder is for hot, young (or youngish) men to hook up with hot, young women.Correct. I would add that even these guys are dropping Tinder and going back to the dating sites because of attention whoring problems and/or fierce competition.
Tinder is a waste of time for me, but it still works with the hot-younger-guy niche.Correct again. Still you gotta do a lot of work (much more work than on the sites).
The problem here is that hot, youngish guys have always been having sex with hot young chicks, far before Tinder or even the internet was ever invented.Absolutely! Just different means with the same result.
A “hookup culture” would mean that any normal young person can whip up a smartphone app and then go get laid very quickly with someone cute whenever he/she wanted. Is this the case? Nope. Very clearly this is not the case. If it were, I wouldn’t be sellingany ebooks. My entire Blackdragon business would gooutof business pretty damn fast.The kind of "BS press" Tinder got when it was announced here was unbelievable! I remember even someone labeling it as a "cheat your on your wife" app. Believe me, it's not an exclusive USA phenomenon.
Blackdragon 2015-08-24 10:34:45
So it may well be the case that the society as a whole has no hookup culture, proving BD right, and yet when one starts actually interacting with women, the subset of women he reaches, depending on where and how he looks for them, may exhibit such a culturePerhaps, but I think the simpler and more accurate answer is that A) there is no hookup culture and B) some cities are more difficult than others. Both can be (and are) true at the same time.
Lee 2015-08-29 05:19:41
I wouldn't worry about the so called manosphere. most of what they are about is a fear of women rather than teaching other men how to better their chances with women which is actual PUA. a smart man will always find a way with the ladies.
L 2015-08-30 11:05:46
To my amazement, I had a divorced 45 year old woman wink me on match.com today. I opened her, and then she asked if she was too old (I'm 23). I said no, and she essentially started saying how she likes young guys, has had younger than me, gave me her number and wants to arrange hooking up. I almost passed out. Didn't think those type hung around on match.com! Thank heavens my mono-GF dumped me the other week. Nervous though because I haven't been in this situation before. Any tips on handling her when I go around? I've only dated those 19-22 before. No experience of an older woman. Get a convo going? This type of stuff feels pretty alien because I'm used to at least a few dates before getting down to business, and I've never met with a 45 y/o woman who just wants her brains banged out by a young man. Certainly not complaining! At the end of the day I guess she's just another woman like any other.
Blackdragon 2015-08-30 13:46:38
Didn’t think those type hung around on match.com!As I've said, if you're young and good-looking, you SHOULD go after over-33s. And of course they're on Match.com; they're just not the norm. Just go for it. Pitch a meet and tap dat ass.
L 2015-08-30 13:55:42
Thanks BD. Getting the ones 18-25 proves to be a pain, but I prefer older women and they come at me like flies. I've just never embraced it. Guess I'm gonna get milking it!
Al 2015-08-30 18:45:37
@ L (In an Monty Pythonesque voice) "You lucky, lucky bastard." Whilst I come at it from the wrong side of 45, I have found that particular age to be the horniest of the lot.
Nervous though because I haven’t been in this situation before. Any tips on handling her when I go around? I’ve only dated those 19-22 before. No experience of an older woman.I'd let her handle you. 😀 😉
L 2015-08-31 03:33:20
Ha!! Yes, I've pitched the meet up and can't wait. I'm sure BD has said women that age are the horniest as well, and she's recently divorced too. I may end up lucky to make it out alive ? at least I'll go out in the best way!
POB 2015-08-31 12:25:47
I’m sure BD has said women that age are the horniest as well, and she’s recently divorced too.That's right, they are (you hit the jackpot my friend). My advice would be to let her initiate and do her stuff...no need for you to take charge. Think about it this way: she's the hunter and you're the luckiest prey in the world! Good luck!
Minister 2015-09-14 10:26:28
BlackDragon, can you give us an explanation for the reasons why the transition from one phase to another happens?
Blackdragon 2015-09-14 15:30:24
BlackDragon, can you give us an explanation for the reasons why the transition from one phase to another happens?It's complicated, but to summarize, female early adopters of a new dating technology usually have much lower ASD than the societal average. These women represent less and less of the overall percentage of the women on a dating site/app as time goes on and it becomes more popular. As time goes on you have more men competing for a smaller amount of low-ASD women.
Tyler 2015-11-30 19:53:48
The Hookup Culture does exist to an extent. That doesn't make it a bad thing though. If you look at the stats of the usage of internet sites they have gone up in the past decade. People and partners and hookups are more accessible than ever. Just look at tinder and it's "passport" capability. We can connect with people all over the world. The point being that the hookup has just taken the place of the traditional first date. Dating isn't dead, we're not consumed with sex, things are just changing.
Who Killed Chivalry? Hint: Not Men - Stealth Attraction 2016-03-21 10:19:29
[…] is no hookup culture, as I already proved here. Despite in increase in sexual imagery, people have very little actual sex these […]
Niteride Mick 2017-01-17 02:24:26
Hey George of Wolf Street There are a lot of wanker guys on Tinder in Sydney Look at the bloke who locked his tinder date outside his unit She fell to her death He goes on 60 minutes after his court case and gets money for what he did If your a good sort who lives in Sydney why would you hook up with a wanker like that Mate you screen your so called dates Women do the same !!! Cheers
Breaking Habits 2019-08-09 01:09:10
Black Dragon. I am a good looking 25 year old male with decent experience with women (over 200, however willing to listen to you since I agree with everything you say and consider you funny). I have an MLTR? However I am beginning to travel a lot due to new job opportunity... I frequent most of my time in either Texas or Colorado however if you profiled me then I am the definition of ennegram 7 wing 8 or sagittarius (it's just easier to explain :') Anyways, I'm new to the blog and considering I just moved to Colorado and need to build momentum again since my arrangements in Texas are now suffering a distance gap; what are the top links in your blog to attend? Also, do you have any tactics on preventing traumatizing women? Soft nexting is nice however I'm sure youve been "in too deep" before and need an exit strategy. $: approach and exit would be of best help.
Breaking Habits 2019-08-09 01:32:16
OLTR... my bad above...