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A Few of My Past Screw Ups
Today I’m going to eat a major helping of humble pie and tell you about the biggest screw ups I’ve ever made with women. I promised myself when writing this article that I would include the biggest, dumbest mistakes I’ve ever made even if they made me embarrassed to reveal them. I actually came up with so many that the article ran way too long, so I'll post some now and some later in a future installment.
-By Caleb Jones
As I have talked about before, and as you’ll soon see, I was once just a standard beta male, doing absolutely everything wrong with women until I learned and practiced and got better. I started on this journey after being married for almost ten years, being ten years out of dating practice. (Not that I was super dating experienced before I was married either!) These screw ups are listed in no particular order.
One of the very first dates I ever had back in 2007 was with a woman in her 30s who was damn near a 10 (for a woman over 30 at least). Blonde, gorgeous, smart, fit, fun, and awesome. We met on Match.com and our first date was at a bookstore coffee shop.
We really hit it off. Her body language was fantastic and she complimented me more than once regarding how “handsome” I was. Still inexperienced, I was surprised a woman like that would actually like me, or what to do about it.
After the date, when we left building, she was standing on the sidewalk as we said goodbye and she stood there in front of me, not moving, her head tilted up, and her lips out. Clearly, she wanted to be kissed. I shrugged and gave her a nervous peck-kiss on the mouth and said goodbye. (Oh BD, you dumbass.)
Later we were having a conversation over email and I hadn’t yet pitched the second date. (Dumbass.) During this phase of my dating evolution, I was convinced that since betas never got laid (untrue), I had to go the opposite extreme and be a complete asshole. So I sent her several emails with “jerk” dialed up to ten. She sent me back an email about how appalled she was and that she never wanted to see me again.
I could have had sex with this woman and she could have made a great MLTR. The bottom line is that the sweet spot between beta and asshole is about 50% past the middle, towards asshole, not all the way to asshole.
Around this same time, I was going out on dates with a woman who was about 40 but still blonde, fit, and hot. As the typical over-33, she constantly demanded fancy dinner dates. Being the dumbass I was, I obliged. Pay for dinner, talk for hours, kiss goodnight. Pay for dinner, talk for hours, kiss goodnight. Pay for dinner, talk for hours, kiss goodnight. Yep. It's the beta male dating model.
After about four repeats of this, my blueballs were so blue that people started asking me if I had joined the Blue Man Group. Over texts, while scheduling date number five (kill me), I told her she just needed to come over to my place. She got indignant and asked why. I told her she knew why. She said, “For sex?” I said yes. (Ugh. I’m cringing as I type this. This shit is painful to recall.)
She then gave me the standard ASD over-33 song and dance about how that was too planned and not romantic blah blah blah buy me more dinners and maybe you’ll get some blah blah blah I’m worth the wait blah blah blah and I could use a new Coach bag too blah blah blah and I'm amazing in bed blah blah blah. (By the way, this woman made a six figure income.)
We didn’t get anywhere. A few days later we had another huge, long text conversation (ugh) about having sex. I threw tons of guy-logic at her about how I had spent X amount of money on her and now it was time blah blah blah and she responded with woman logic about how on the first date I had only bought her a bottled water blah blah and then I said that I’m sure she didn’t make her last boyfriend wait five dates for sex blah blah and she said that was different because he had six pack abs blah blah blah BLAH BLAH. This went on for....a fucking hour. I’m serious. A hour long text conversation about using logic in order to convince a woman to have sex with me. I never saw her again. Shut Your Damn Mouth, BD
One of the very first younger-woman encounters I had was a first, and I think second date with a very hot 20 year-old. We really hit it off but I didn’t pull the trigger. We had trouble scheduling the third date because of her schedule, but it was very clear she wanted to see me again. (She was initiating contact often, etc.) Finally, when she had some time, she said she had met someone else and was thus reluctant to see me again.
I then immediately rolled into a huge pile of massive over-verbalization about how it didn’t make any sense to commit to monogamy to any man after just one or two dates. (Holy shit.) Of course she immediately got defensive and told me to let her live her own life blah blah blah and I said she was free to do whatever she wanted but she was making a mistake blah blah blah.
She ended up insulting me and blocking my number. Never saw her again. Don’t Make It Complicated Was on a third date (I think) with a super-hot Korean woman with double-D boobs (yes, big-titted Asians do exist, they're just rare). We were at a local bar having drinks, and we were both getting horny. Sensing my moment, I told her we should go back to her place (we were much closer to her place than mine). She said she couldn’t, that her daughter was there with her friends, but she still was clearly DTF.
So there I am, driving around town in an area I wasn’t super familiar with, with her in the passenger seat, looking very nervous. I was frantically looking around for a god damn hotel (this was before smartphones or Google Maps). Finally, I found a hotel! It was disgusting, rotting roach motel that smelled like urine, cum, weed, and cat turds. All the blood was in my cock instead of my brain, so I didn't register any of this.
After fucking around renting a room for about 45 minutes and spending $75, I walked her up to the hotel room. She looked disgusted and terrified. I got her on the bed, started to take her clothes off, and she was just too turned off and nervous. I ended up getting nothing. Later, over texts, she said, “You ruined it. I just wanted to fuck in the car.” Shut Your Damn Mouth, BD! Again!
I once had a brand-new MLTR I was very pretty pumped about. We had only had sex one time and had been sexual (blowjobs, etc.) several others. She was in her late 20s, super hot, super blonde, a Cameron Diaz lookalike, and a corporate chick. I was so excited to have her (first mistake).
I made the classic guy mistake of getting way too comfortable before Lock-In (when you have full-on sex with a new woman at least twice). Sitting in my home office, we were looking through photos on her Facebook page (ugh). As she scrolled through them, there were a few pictures of her and an overweight woman doing funny poses in a forest.
“Who’s that fat chick?” I asked casually. Her eyes widened, darkened, and she turned to me and said angrily, “That’s my AUNT,” as if to say, “That’s my favorite relative you asshole!” “Oh,” I said, “Cool.” Great recovery, dumbass. That day after she left, she suddenly stopped responding to my texts. I never saw her again. Surprise!
Once I was out on a first date with a super hot 23 year-old with long, dark hair. We were really hitting it off and I was getting excited to have sex with her. During our conversation, she made mention of the “dark stuff” she went through “two years ago.”
I finally said, “What dark stuff?”
“Well, you know,” she said.
“Well, the reason I write this stuff on my profile is so I don’t have to have these awkward conversations. I mean, you read my profile, right?”
I hadn’t. I don’t read profiles. It’s not efficient. So I sputtered and said, “Uh, yeah, I read some of it.” (Oh god.)
“So,” she said carefully, “You know I was born a man?”
“Uh, yeah, of course,” I lied.
“Oh good,” ‘she’ said, “I was so nervous for a minute there.”
Simply amazing. The person sitting before me whom I was getting ready to fuck was a pre-op transsexual, complete with fake boobs and a penis, and I had absolutely, 100%, no idea until she told me. She looked, sounded, and acted just like a girl. A super hot one. I was seriously amazed at the medical technology involved in the transformation.
I actually recovered pretty well. I asked ‘her’ all about her procedures and the medical aspects, which I found quite interesting. We actually had a pretty good talk. In the end, I told her to “text me,” and thank god, she never did. I can only imagine what would have happened had we not had that conversation and I had just proceeded..
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Minister 2015-11-02 05:58:19
At least, you stopped screwing up, I guess. I, on the other hand, even after two years of online game I keep screwing up sometimes pre-date. Most of my screw ups are because of short temper, especially if the girl makes lame excuses why she can't make it for 1-2 hours of meet. Sometimes I will respond that if she is not into it, we can drop it, no hard feelings. This line has never worked. More often than not, she will insist that she has not enough time or will take my words as an overreaction. At the end, guess what, I won't get the date. I don't know if it was meant to flake out in the first place, but I am afraid I may have lost ton of lays, in this way. I know I should be more patient, but game should be fun after all, so girls that drive you crazy are not worth your time. What do you think?
Nars-ass-sis bolox 2015-11-02 06:05:53
Some of those stories are very cringe worthy indeed and fair play for sharing them. That last one had me laughing out loud man fucking hilarious haha. I'm still in my learning stage and still making mistakes but compared to how i was before i look back with embarrassment too!
Brian 2015-11-02 06:52:09
Shoulda Woulda Coulda You are like me, learning curves can be trying , but we DO win out way more than lose, LIFE is great! Brian, Adventuresome Farmer
donniedemarco 2015-11-02 09:00:00
Great post. It's painful to write about failures like this, but doing so can really help cement the resultant learning. I keep a notebook of my more fantastic facepalm moments precisely for this purpose.
JoshuaTenor 2015-11-02 09:48:05
If it makes anyone feel any better, here's a disappointing one from me. A budy of mine who was pretty successful with the ladies once invited me to go with him to meet two women he knew of. I figured, sure, why not. Well, we get there and both of them were attractive. I was pleased. We paired off and had a pretty nice evening, chatting, drinking, and even dancing. Eventually it got pretty late, but the generous young ladies invited us to stay at their place. Eventually it was "bed time", so my buddy went off to the other room with his woman, and I went to the other room with the one I had talked and danced with. Well, we got in bed (generally clothed) and at some point she asks if I could massage her neck. I do, briefly, but not very long as I was a bit tired... and perhaps drunk too. I figured in any case that nothing was going to happen, and at some point I fell asleep. Well, the next morning my buddy and I are the first ones awake, and we meet in the kitchen. My buddy asks me how was it. I said that we didn't do anything, but just went to sleep. He looked at me with this surprised look and then laughed out loud. He tells me about the fun he and his woman had. Eventually the ladies enter the kitchen and exchange a few words (in a foreign language) which I didn't understand... however, I did understand from the woman's expression (the one I had been with) that she was really disappointed. Looking back on the whole thing sober (and with the advantage of hindsight) I could have just kicked myself about then. Ah well. You live and learn, right? lol
POB 2015-11-02 09:55:24
BD, after all those fuck-ups you still kept going. Are you reading this gents? You only look back when it's convenient to learn/correct something, otherwise just keep the foot on the pedal. One of my worst was an one hour delay to a first date. I had my nephew and my sister at my place and the boy decided to fill his diapers right when we where leaving (I had only one key so I had to wait for her to change him). Bottom line is I left late, got stuck in traffic and when I finally arrived, she'd already left (of course). I texted her and apologized but got the answer I deserved and felt like shit afterwards. Bad logistics were not an issue anymore after that day (it's the first thing I make sure is taken care of before making any other plans).
Jacob Gypsum 2015-11-02 10:10:12
And you still don't read profiles? lol
Coconutter 2015-11-02 11:31:13
BD, thank you so much for making this post. I'm pretty new at this stuff, and while I have been having great success using your model, I've also had some incredible screw-ups. I can't express how heartening it is to see that you went through a similar period before you became the rock star you are now.
lazy guy 2015-11-02 12:49:04
This kind of personal story may be one of the best values of these blogs -- failures and successes and why it went that way. I see the failure stories as illustrations of just how badly most of us men are left ignorant or full of false beliefs & expectations re women, dating, sex, how to get what you want, etc. I've had similar experiences of fumbling a great opportunity with a hot woman by being too this or too that, failing to read her non-verbal signals correctly, having to learn everything the hard way over time, flying blind, etc. I hope other readers will post some of their stories. So far I don't recall any of mine that are all that interesting...
Troubadour 2015-11-02 13:17:49
It was interesting getting a look at your blooper reel. I think the takeaway message for me is that I'm not as big of a fuck up as I think at this stage of the game, and if I had more incentive to devote time and energy to this, it's likely that I really could get somewhere in the long run. The whole thing is a lot like hunting, and I don't have a lot of use for hunting either. I decided it would put hair on my chest to go shoot Bambi, so I started hunting last year. Took a safety course, got a license, bought a whole lot of green and orange shit to put on, and set myself up with a .30-06. I went out in the cold every day for two weeks and froze my ass off, and I never got the chance to hit or miss the shot, because there was never a shot to take. If you want to kill a deer, the best way is to run one over. There are millions of smart deer standing in the road, and only a few stupid enough to go anywhere near the woods during daylight hours, during hunting season, because deer aren't as stupid as people think. That's what it's like for me with chicks too. I've gotten a few shots in, but not nearly enough to sight in my rifle. Hunting sucks. It's cold, your ass gets sore, and you usually don't see anything. The only reason to hunt is if you're fucking starving to death, and hunting is the only way you're going to eat. Fucking a dumpy fat chick isn't very exciting, but my belly is full, and the woods suck. If I ever just gotta get my dick into a hotter chick, it is plainly worth the money to just go fuck a whore.
Diggy 2015-11-02 15:03:16
Fucking a dumpy fat chick isn’t very exciting, but my belly is full, and the woods suck. If I ever just gotta get my dick into a hotter chick, it is plainly worth the money to just go fuck a whore.Haha, beautiful analogy man. Its not going to be positive around here. I kinda agree with BDs objections...ugly, expensive, and STDs but reading posts like this and a few week of online dating and Im not sure it's worth the effort. I just moved to another state for a career move. I left my SO at my home in another state. When I got here I started online dating. It just seems like a lot of effort to really get some momentum moving forward and get the rotation going. Two weeks in I quit because it just wasnt worth my time right now. Few days later my boss that I moved here for was in this horrible industrial accident and hes in ICU for months. Now my grossly overpaid 20 hr work weeks are gone. Moments like these I think it's way better to pay a hunter to eat the best venison steaks than eat at mcdonalds but ideally the victory of the kill is worth the cold, sore ass, and waiting.
luke 2015-11-02 20:16:58
Think of it this way....the greatest generosity is non-attachment.
Alan 2015-11-03 14:51:53
Didn't stop laughing, cheers for the huge punchlines! The best blog post I have read in a long while. Live and learn.
Blackdragon 2015-11-03 15:20:44
I know I should be more patient, but game should be fun after all, so girls that drive you crazy are not worth your time. What do you think?Lots of guys report to to me your same problem; they get upset with girls being girls. I don't think game should be fun. I think game should be a means to an end, which is sex and relationships, which are fun. I never expect game to be fun and it rarely is. I always expect women to be disorganized, flighty, and flakey, and they usually are. Therefore, I'm never disappointed. I just do what's necessary, and get laid. I never get upset about the process.
And you still don’t read profiles? lolNope! I've been on triple-digits number of first dates via online game, and that was the only time I've ever had a problem because I didn't read a profile. As I said in the linked post, reading profiles is a complete waste of time. Most women say the same things on their profiles ("Looking for a parnter in crime!"), and they rarely mean what they say on their profiles. Get to know a woman on the first real-life date, not with her fucking profile.
I kinda agree with BDs objections…ugly, expensive, and STDs but reading posts like this and a few week of online dating and Im not sure it’s worth the effort.Every man needs to make their own decisions about that. The point (at least for me) is that I never have any of the above problems any more. Those are all taken from my first 2 years (or so) learning the process. For many years, my dating life has been smooth sailing with zero problems, and will be for the rest of my life, because I was willing to put in those initial 1.5-2 years of effort. I call that a good investment, but that's me. But if you think hookers (or sugar babies) are a better use of your time, go for it. I've discussed that option before here and here.
Nathan 2015-11-04 00:17:19
I really disagree, well kind of... Yes I do agree that meeting someone is the only real way to get to know them. However, reading a profile can give you a great advantage. I know women are meant to do most of the talking, but if you see on their first profile page (or whichever has the hobbies/interests) then you can keep them talking for ages with those few 'conversation topics' hooks - also showing that you took the time to read her profile (this gives you that little +1 in her brain in regards to you). Hell, I'm being a bit hypocritical here - I don't do online dating because of ASD & the bullshit that is written in profiles!!! 😀
Claude 2015-11-04 00:35:19
Hi BD, ever gone through life wondering what next and then all of a sudden kaboom something comes out of the blue and u are like eureka! I was married for 7 years a relationship for 9 we are finally getting divorced in December, since our seperation I have literally fucked my brains out, I have always been sexual but my ex stopped fucking me after a few years cause I was not talking her love language, she is 40 I am 38...I literate got owned and hated ever moment of it...3 weeks ago I met a 21 year old and finally life became clear...I was concerned how I could keep her interested so Google and found your blog...since then I have found lots of answers in your blog...from me being the needy guy and loosing my cool to other things etc....Anyway I bought your book and can't wait to get amongst it...I do have a fear though I have a rescuer personality and also very addictive...but then I love pussy and different women...but when I meet one new one I can get clingy...however i am not into the complicated bullshit of monogy taking orders having to do things a certain way in order to keep the peace....aaarg what a mind fuck...Anyway I hope I can seperate my caring side from my sexual side, caring I can put into my kids which I love and hopefully the women I can use to full my ever burning desire for fucking lots of women ...power to the alpha 2.0....Anyway big ups to u u make me laugh and I love ure insights...I hope by the end of the next six months I will be that guy I have always wanted to be...content, happy, fit, successful fuck who I want and live happily ever after.....amen to u sir.
Blackdragon 2015-11-04 02:08:51
Hi BD, ever gone through life wondering what next and then all of a sudden kaboom something comes out of the blue and u are like eureka!In my early 30s, when I was living the wrong life, yes.
I was married for 7 years a relationship for 9 we are finally getting divorced in December, since our seperation I have literally fucked my brains outYes, that's what happens when a man gets divorced. He finally gets laid again. Marriage is the worst way to get laid.
amen to u sirHere to help, brother.
I know women are meant to do most of the talking, but if you see on their first profile page (or whichever has the hobbies/interests) then you can keep them talking for ages with those few ‘conversation topics’ hooksNo. Women are talking machines. I have no problem having a woman talk 80%, if not 90% on all of my first dates (unless she's an odd exception to the rule), and I haven't read a profile in years.
also showing that you took the time to read her profile (this gives you that little +1 in her brain in regards to you).Wrong. It puts you slightly in the beta column instead of the Alpha one. Reading her profile shows you give a shit. I don't. That's why I get laid.
Hell, I’m being a bit hypocritical here – I don’t do online dating because of ASD & the bullshit that is written in profiles!!! ?Annnnnnd I rest my case. My arguments defend themselves. (And I love how guys who don't do online game like to give advice about how to do it.)
POB 2015-11-04 05:30:30
Reading profiles = waste of time. Proved in real life time and time again. Here's what you'll get (feel free to pick one): 1) "I want a man who is caring and gentle" (literally 80% of profiles have that or a very close variation); 2) "I don't answer to everybody, especially without pictures" (which means "I'm screening for a good-looking guy"); 3) 500+ lines describing how amazing she is (some also put a big list of demands) and how only "the unicorn man" will be allowed inside her magical vagina (30+ women mostly); 4) some random sex banther coupled with very sexy pics, which usually means it's a fake profile, an escort/transexual looking for clients or someone craving attention (the last thing going on is sexual interest);
L 2015-11-04 09:14:05
Christ BD, even though I'm not as experienced as all of you here, it was genuinely painful to keep reading that hotel example with the Korean. But I must admit, I didn't expect that response at all, was expecting you to say she just cut you off. I was recently out with a woman, and while talking etc. she started rubbing my leg with hers. Anyway, couldn't go back to hers and I couldn't be arsed going to mine.... so I told her I knew a place to park up and I did just that; job done. Car bang. I definitely feel like my personal fuck ups (which I can all relate to these on some level) are no longer uncommon after seeing YOU did these though LOL! Makes me feel better about conquering them while young (I'm 23). OMG at 'We actually had a pretty good talk. In the end, I told her to “text me,” and thank god, she never did.' Couldn't stop laughing.
Ron Gordon 2015-11-05 19:23:00
BD, thank you for your advice. I was on a first date last night and the woman seemed to try to kiss me as I hugged her good bye. Do you recommend avoiding the kiss on the first date even if the woman tries? Thanks.
Blackdragon 2015-11-05 19:38:55
OMG at ‘We actually had a pretty good talk. In the end, I told her to “text me,” and thank god, she never did.’ Couldn’t stop laughing.That was the only way I could find out of that one while still being nice. I'm so nice. 🙂
I was on a first date last night and the woman seemed to try to kiss me as I hugged her good bye. Do you recommend avoiding the kiss on the first date even if the woman tries?YES. No kissing on a first date (unless you're 100% sure sex is about to take place!). Sex talk, kino, a hug or two maybe, but no NO KISSING. Kissing is for the second date (when you have SEX). Unless you're already dating and having sex with her, kissing is only an immediate precursor to sex. Otherwise don't do it. You'll just spike ASD and buyer's remorse for no reason.
Wil 2015-11-07 06:59:10
I really enjoyed reading this article, it really brings things into perspective, like how it actually is to learn pickup. It's embarrassing, out of the norm, and some days you'll really kick yourself. I myself have made similar errors as well although I am nowhere near BD's skill level. Now as for you BD, do you think that things could've gotten worse for you had you not screwed up with the first chick (too asshole)? Like maybe, being the beta that you were at the time, she could've gotten you to agree to a monogamous relationship and you would've gone down the same road as your dentist friend (serial monogamy, and lots of drama), and you there wouldn't be a "BlackDragonBlog.com"?
Blackdragon 2015-11-07 19:36:23
Now as for you BD, do you think that things could’ve gotten worse for you had you not screwed up with the first chick (too asshole)? Like maybe, being the beta that you were at the time, she could’ve gotten you to agree to a monogamous relationship and you would’ve gone down the same road as your dentist friend (serial monogamy, and lots of drama), and you there wouldn’t be a “BlackDragonBlog.com”?No, because I still screwed up a ton of other things. For example, I would have eventually screwed up on the "too asshole" thing with the next woman. I would have arrived in the same place; it just might have taken me longer.
L 2015-11-14 09:26:35
No, because I still screwed up a ton of other things. For example, I would have eventually screwed up on the “too asshole” thing with the next woman. I would have arrived in the same place; it just might have taken me longer.I love that. That's exactly how I've started viewing failures and it really does help take any embarrassment or negative feelings away from them. I made a real damn embarrassing mess of flirting the other day (because I don't have any experience, I'm a physical escalator, not a talker); infact, it was so bad and embarrassing, that I'm not giving you the example, and she even said herself that what I said was lame. I'm not kidding, she genuinely told me 'you're done, that was lame!...but I'll let you off the hook'...luckily though, I still got to the end result fine because I had a comeback to that which she found funny (I said how about we let that off the hook as well, signaling to her bra). But when I think of the crappy flirting I did, It genuinely embarrasses me. However, I realised to myself that, had it not happened with her, it would have happened with someone at somepoint, and at least it's out of the way now, and I wont ever make that mistake again! If it does, it wont be as bad, and I now know I have an area to work on.
Martin 2016-03-25 03:05:18
When I get a few bucks to spend, and gripe about having to spend money on pick up books, I'll remind myself about that 33+ bitch that took you to the cleaners for those damned dinners. Thank God I will NEVER have to do THAT bullshit. When faced with a demand for such a dinner though, I think I will be direct: You don't rate that kind of treatment. (I won't say because we haven't had sex yet) WHAT!? I DON'T RATE IT!? No. No you don't. Once you demonstrate to me that we really have a good connection, those kind of activities will have more meaning. And yes, I am DELIBERATELY sounding like a Beta. It will fuck with her head. And if she gets pissed, WHO CARES? She was likely not worth it anyway. Back to the Mission.