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Racial Series Part 2 – Pickup Advice for Indian Guys
-By Caleb Jones
Indian guys. Oh boy. Where do I begin?
As always, I’m going to give it to you straight, so get ready. Today is going to hurt.
Ever since entering the PUA world many years ago, I have seen a constant barrage of extreme beta and awfully clueless Indian guys on pickup blogs and forums asking for advice. They're doing everything wrong; having horrifically terrible attitudes about themselves and women, refusing to do the correct things even when clearly told what to do, constantly spinning their wheels when it comes to women, and getting nowhere fast.
Of all the races, Indian guys have, by far, the most trouble with Western women and women in general. This is not because of how Indian guys look or how they are perceived, but rather the horrible attitudes most Indian men carry around with them when it comes to women (especially white women) and sex.
The culture in and from India has the most intense, anti-sex Societal Programming and worst ASD, by far, of any other culture on the planet. That’s saying a lot, because I’m including the Muslim Middle East in there. Those Muslims may have insane and sky-high anti-sex SP, but at least those guys can have up to four wives and can talk about sex freely with their buddies. In much of India, even indirectly talking about sex is forbidden, even when it’s required to do so for necessary medical, psychological, or parental reasons. India is a land of virgins, arranged marriages, and millions of adults who've had sex with just one person in their entire lives (and even then, I use the term “sex” loosely).
Over the years, I have been absolutely stunned and sickened at the stories Indian men have told me regarding the titanic sexual dysfunction inflicted upon them by their culture, their parents, and their upbringings. What Indian culture and Indian parents do to men is as nauseating as it is abusive. I could tell you about some of these stories, but I don’t want to ruin your day. And trust me, they would ruin your day.
As a result, there are millions of Indian uber-betas roaming the Earth harboring deeply ingrained views about sex, women, and masculinity that are completely ass-backwards. These men can look forward to a life of suffering unless they do some hard, painful work on themselves and their damaged psyches (or move back to India and never leave).
(Side note for you right-wingers: this destructive, authoritarian brainwashing is what’s required to make a society with a 1% divorce rate. Is it worth it? You be the judge.)
So it’s no surprise to me that Indian guys in the West need the most dating/relationship help and have the most trouble when compared to men of other races.
Where The Problem Is
If you’re an Indian man reading these words, you likely think that you’ve had trouble with women, particularly white women, because women “don’t like Indian guys.”
You’re having trouble for one reason and one reason only: Your culture and/or your Indian parents have brainwashed you with oceans of bullshit regarding sex, gender relations, and your status as a man. The problem is between your ears, not with women.
I know this because I personally know, and have personally coached, many Indian guys living in the West who get laid like rock stars or close to it, and yes, I mean they fuck lots of hot white girls. There are several in my coaching program. These men have successfully cleaned out all or most of the false SP their culture and parents poisoned them with. If you want to be successful with women, you must do the same. Otherwise, no dating or relationship techniques I or anyone else can offer will help you.
Moreover, I have met and/or dated numerous attractive white women who clearly tell me that Indian guys are “hot.” A recent MLTR of mine is white as they come, a hot 22 year-old girl, and she only dated Indian guys until I came along. Plenty of white women love Indian guys as long as they aren’t poisoned by their anti-sex Indian SP.
So if you think women don’t like you because you’re Indian, you’re dead wrong, and you’re being an idiot. Women don’t like you because you’re behaving like the dorky, sexually terrified, hyper-needy uber-beta that your Indian parents trained you to be since you were a small child. The minute you stop thinking like that guy is the minute you start getting laid.
Therefore, your first goal with getting better with women as an Indian man is to focus on cleaning out all of your false Indian SP regarding women and sex.
By the way, I'm not bashing your country or culture. India is an amazing, dynamic place and I'll be spending a lot of time there next year. Indian guys are intelligent, hard working, and fun to hang out with. Some of my longest and closest business relationships have been with men from India. Your women are also super hot as I discussed regarding my recent trip to Fiji. I love you guys.
Yet, as I clearly describe in my book, just because your country/culture has some good ideas doesn't mean it also has some really bad ones (this includes my culture too). Your Indian work ethic and family bonds are wonderful. Your views on sex and relationships suck ass. Keep the good stuff, but chuck that bad shit.
How do you do this?
Read the blogs and books about how to become a more confident, outcome independent Alpha Male. Do what they recommend. Focus more on inner game than tactical techniques. Put in the time and work on it. My book has several chapters on exactly how to clean out cultural SP and become more Alpha, but there are many other resources available. Devour this stuff and get to work on your mind. Make it your number one goal in life to clean out the bullshit from your brain so you can finally start getting laid like a normal Western guy.
Getting some personal coaching is also a very good idea. Of course I’m biased here because I sell coaching myself, and I’m good at it, but if you’d like to coach with some other manosphere, PUA, or life coaching guys, then please do. I have personally seen many Indian guys improve (and improve surprisingly fast) with coaching, from both my myself and others.
Also, and I really hate to say this but it’s the truth, many of you Indian guys have so much psychic damage from your parents and culture that you’ll probably need to go seek counseling in addition to coaching. I’m very serious about this. If your parents were the typical Indian ones who shamed you into being a pussy your whole life while never discussing anything sexual of any kind, you probably need to spend a few months seeing a counselor regularly so you can pull this garbage out of your mind and have someone help you objectively view it and remove it.
I could fill the rest of this article with specific techniques on how to behave more confidently and be less nerdy, but I’m going to save that for the next article in this series when I discuss Asian guys. Most of you Indian guys having trouble wouldn’t benefit from such advice anyway. Technique is not what most of you need. You need a change in mindset. All the tricks and tips aren’t going to do shit for you if you’re still carrying around this low self-esteem, anti-sex SP.
If I’ve sounded like an asshole today, realize that it’s coming from a place of caring. I’ve seen many Indian guys who could be super-player Alphas if they just took a few months and focused on surgically removing their bullshit from their brains instead of trying out the latest PUA technique. Getting good with women (of all races) as an Indian guy is a very achievable goal, I promise. I’ve seen it many times.
I’m hoping this article will be the beginning of a journey for you guys, not an end.
Now get to work.
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maldek 2016-03-10 05:25:31
"I could tell you about some of these stories" -> Please give us an example so we do get a general idea what exactly you are talking about. Whats so horrible SP regarding sex in india? Did they not just recently become the country with the most humans (more than china even)? I was thinking with so many babies made, these guys must be having sex frequently. I never was in india nor do i know a lot of indian guys, so i really am that naive and uninformed regarding this country. Maybe other readers are in the same boat, and are wondering the same. Please clarify whats the big problem with indian guys.
Jack Outside the Box 2016-03-10 06:03:07
What Indian culture and Indian parents do to men is as nauseating as it is abusive. I could tell you about some of these stories, but I don’t want to ruin your day. And trust me, they would ruin your day.Goddammit BD! I hate it when you say things like this. I want you to ruin my day! Come on! You've always given us stories, personal anecdotes, and whatnot to strengthen the practicality of your advice and make it more real and relatable. Sometimes, that's the best part. Like the above poster said, we really don't know what the hell you're talking about (although I have a general idea). You need to tell us these stories so we know what these guys are dealing with. Don't turn PC/sensitive on us. Tell us what the fuck you're talking about! And be specific with the stories.
BlindIo 2016-03-10 06:37:40
(Side note for you right-wingers: this destructive, authoritarian brainwashing is what’s required to make a society with a 1% divorce rate. Is it worth it? You be the judge.)On that note, Roosh has stepped up his game today. He seems to be trying to create a movement to overturn society and return to the 50s - monogamy, religion, all the bells and whistles. The problem with that is, of course, that monogamy doesn't work. Until we find a way to combine modern technology and the options it gives us with our innate biological natures, human cultures will continue to rise and fall as they have for the past thousands of years since the invention of agriculture. He also blocked me from commenting for, as best I can tell, saying that I don't like the term neomasculinity. Things are becoming increasingly cultish over there. I know you are not interested in "saving the world" - and I agree that the world does not want to be saved - but I think it is still worthwhile to look into ways individual men, or possibly small groups of likeminded men, can live a healthier, happier life than any of the alternatives that have been tried so far while still having a functional society. We have the technology and the historical knowledge to find a solution. All that remains is for someone to do it.
Bulma78 2016-03-10 07:14:43
Hi BD, I want you to ruin my day too! You should just pound the last few nails into the coffin, tell us the stories and put us out of our misery! ;o) I would love to hear at least one of the stories, but if you can, tell us a bunch!.....and I do think that Indian guys are generally really hot!
K 2016-03-10 07:54:18
Your Indian work ethic and family bonds are wonderful.Just wondering... how do you combine the idea of creating wonderful family bonds with that of never setting up families (not marrying, not having children - as they clearly detract from one´s happiness)? Thanks
sa 2016-03-10 08:51:36
Im originally frm india living in US In addition to culture,Day to Day environment also is bad for guys like me went to kidergarden,middle,highschool,college, In India with only boys ,so no co-ed school also work as engineer which rarely gets in contact with women,people , So guys like me who are into engineering , have more challenge in social/women skills I do have to say Got lot of help,benefit working with BD ,and still working on improving my social skills
eddie 2016-03-10 09:32:54
A couple of things...isn't it crazy how anti-sex they are when these are the same people who created the Kama Sutra, pratice Devadasi and have over a billion plus people. BD, when will the Asian article be released?
Bobby 2016-03-10 10:08:33
This is fucking great. Very few have the balls to tell it like it is these days. Well done BD. Looking forward to the article for Hispanics. Would that be coming after the Asian one??
Blackdragon 2016-03-10 10:09:32
The purpose of this article is to help Indian guys, not to entertain white people with their misery. If the lack of specific examples of Indian misery bother some of you white people, tough shit. This article isn't for you.
I was thinking with so many babies made, these guys must be having sex frequently.Indian culture is anti-sex but extremely pro-family, pro-marriage, and pro-children, almost to the point of obsession as compared to the West. Here's an article I read about it recently. Also (my understanding is) they're largely anti-birth control. That's where all the people come from. They come from a ultra-high percentage of young virgins getting an arranged marriage very fast (pressured by their parents) and having babies very fast (again under massive pressure from parents and culture to do so). It's not because people are dating, getting laid, and enjoying sex, and having a great time. Even many Indian married people have a very awkward, stilted relationship with sex.
Just wondering… how do you combine the idea of creating wonderful family bonds with that of never setting up families (not marrying, not having children – as they clearly detract from one´s happiness)?1. IF you choose to have kids, you need to fucking do it right, which Westerners largely don't. In the West, the word "family" has become a low income, stressed out single mother who needs taxpayers held at gunpoint to help pay her bills while she raises a kid with no dad (or at least a very distant dad). Despite their many problems, at least Asian/Indians do this right. If you don't want to do it right, control yourself and don't have kids. 2. Individual long-term, consistent happiness drops when you have kids no matter what, in any culture, unless your personality is highly unusual. That's irrelevant to the point of doing it right. Either have kids and do it right (knowing your overall happiness will be lessened for about 20 years) or don't have kids. You control your actions and genitals. It can be done.
Im originally frm india living in US In addition to culture,Day to Day environment also is bad for guys like me went to kidergarden,middle,highschool,college, In India with only boys ,so no co-ed schoolYep. That's just one more reason for these problems; segregation of the sexes in India. It's very rare to see Westerners spend the first 18 years of their childhood segregated from the other gender. And even when they do, there are lots of co-ed dances, events, and things like that to get access to girls.
BD, when will the Asian article be released?A month or two. I've got many more articles planned that need to get posted first.
Blackdragon 2016-03-10 10:12:19
Looking forward to the article for Hispanics. Would that be coming after the Asian one??Yeah. Though frankly, of the non-white races, Hispanic guys need the least amount of help. But it's coming, yep.
Nom de plume 2016-03-10 10:51:15
I’m of Indian descent and I approve of BD’s message. I never worked with BD, but what he says is how I got better. Few things for BD: - The India you describe would have been very accurate about five years ago. Not so much today. I was there late last year, and it was shocking to see sex has slowly gone main stream, albeit mostly with 25 and younger. On my most recent trip, I saw a Bollywood film in a public cinema, with uncensored sex. That was a WTF moment. I was expecting a song and dance instead. I remember seeing one newspaper survey (sorry can’t find a link) which claimed nearly half of all unmarried men and women have had sex. Very big deal for India. - That said, culturally India still has a long way to before becoming (again) sexually liberal. I say again because we wrote the fucking Kama Sutra and I blame the British colonization for stifling us. - Also, among all South Asian countries, India is the most liberal. For your Indian readers: - Your reservation is based on a fear of judgement. Unfortunately, judgement from others never goes away, but you can and must defeat self-judgement. - I defeated self-judgement by accepting that hot naked girls make me aroused, and that it’s natural. - For those of you who are religious, remember the Krishna had multiple girlfriends. And also, all Hindu goddesses are hour glass figures with epic boobs. So if the gods and goddesses are ok with sexuality, you should be too, right? Trust me, they can't judge you. Here are a few things I did to become comfortable with sex: - Watch porn, but don’t jack off to it. Let it turn you on and accept it. - Go for soft-core, sensual porn. Stuff where the tension is slowly building up. Not hard-core extreme because that will fuck up your neuro-circuits. - Watch straight porn and lesbian porn. No gay porn cause that’s not going to help you. Study how lesbians turn each other on. - Take YaReally’s advice and visit a relatively classier strip joint (if there is such a thing). Not for a lap-dance or a hooker. Just so you can become ok with arousal, and be ok with overt-sexuality. I haven’t done this, but want to. YaReally talks about doing this to help train to keep his composure in highly sexual situations. - Be ok with kink. Somehow, kink is a taboo even in liberal countries like the US. Yet, so many girls are into or want to experience light bondage. They just don’t talk about for fear of judgement (just like you!). Just go read all the OKCupid questions / answers. Because I'm accepting about kink on my profile, I often get messages from seemingly innocent/ nice-girl profiles expressing interest. - Be ok with kink because you might be into it as well. You might not know because of all the SP layered on top of you. Kink is something even western men must get over. - Talk freely about sex with both men and women. Just keep in mind, some of your friends are used to you avoiding sex talk, so it might be a shock to them. So slowly work it in. Also remember, you cant stop someone else’s judgement, so some people just won’t be open to sex talk, and might view you negatively. Fade them out of your life if they’re not family. Finally, keep this in mind because you will have set backs: - You already ARE a sex god. You just need to chip off the layers of SP crap piled on top of it. - Self acceptance is the FUCKING KEY. You’ll shed off the years of SP and you’ll finally feel like all the weight has been lifted off your shoulders when you’re ok with what you like and what turns you on. - Trust what BD is saying. I followed the same path he’s describing here on my own. I discovered my own path, years before BD was writing, but I wish I had the wisdom here to speed up my journey. Also, I’m no sex god or a rock star pua (yet). I still have a lot of work left to do, but I definitely got the sexual part handled so I’m good to go when i do get laid. Good luck!
Joe 2016-03-10 10:53:01
Great read here BD. I have a hot 22 yr old med student Indian girl FB for the past 5 months (lived in India until she was 18). I always thought her words and actions were so peculiar... but the anti-sex Indian culture that you discussed here help to explain. I hope that others interested in hot Indian girls can learn from my experience below. For reference sake, I'm American, black and white (I look identical to Kobe Bell... without the six-pack) and I love all women of all colors I matched a hot 22 yr old Indian girl on Tinder and after making plans to meet, she said "if you're looking to get some action, I'm not the girl". I said "If you're looking to get some action, I'm not the guy." We met for drinks on our first date, and I broke BDs rule and kissed her a lot that night. The next day, she apologized that we didn't have sex "Sorry our date was so 'high-school" This wasn't exactly what I expected from "not the girl" On date #2, I had her meet at my apartment before going out for drinks. She said "should I meet you outside or come up to your room?" OK... I'm not completely brain-dead. At this point, I'm in disbelief of how inconsistent her words and actions have been. Like hell she's "not the girl" So of course, she comes up to my room. We have sex (zero LMR), we go out for drinks, then back to my place for round 2. Somewhere along the way she said to me, almost in a bragging tone "Almost none of my friends are virgins, but we only talk about it in secret. If my parents found out I think they would literally kill me". My conclusion (and likely yours too) is that Indian women CRAVE good sex from a "Alpha 2.0" type, but their SP prevents them from being publicly (or privately) open about it at all. Following her actions and not her words is 10x more important than when dating an American woman.
Bobby 2016-03-10 13:14:44
Instead of seeking therapy, I really think that following Nom de Plum's pointers is probably the way to go for Indian men. (or maybe follow these pointers in conjunction with therapy). Considering where these men are coming from, everything he says makes perfect sense to me. Also, I think guys are more likely to follow this kind of practical advice anyway.
Felix 2016-03-10 13:46:36
BD, How bad could it possibly be?
Blackdragon 2016-03-10 14:34:19
The India you describe would have been very accurate about five years ago. Not so much today. I was there late last year, and it was shocking to see sex has slowly gone main stream, albeit mostly with 25 and youngerYes, India, particularly pockets of the urban upper middle class, is liberalizing like most of the rest of the world, but it's irrelevant. For example, Dinsey monogamy hasn't "worked" in the United States for almost 50 years, but our SP still brainwashes everyone into trying it anyway. Considering that Indians are more stubborn than Americans, it will easily be 100 years before Indian anti-sex SP calms down to the point where Indian men aren't poisoned by it. Your advice to other Indian guys is great!
Instead of seeking therapy, I really think that following Nom de Plum’s pointers is probably the way to go for Indian men.I agree, IF such a man actually does what he's recommending. A lot of Indian men know exactly what to do but don't. As I always say, SP is incredibly powerful.
How bad could it possibly be?Talk about dating, relationships, women, and sex to 25 young, single guys who were raised in India but live in the West, and you'll see.
BlindIo 2016-03-10 15:09:49
Just watched a Stefan Molyneux chat where the caller talked about dating a girl where her two brothers were along every. single. time. and he had to ask her mom for permission before going out with
herthem. Couldn't even sit next to her in the movies. Worse than that?
Jack Outside the Box 2016-03-10 17:58:16
The purpose of this article is to help Indian guys, not to entertain white people with their misery.Jeez man, is it really necessary to interpret my wishes in the darkest and most sadistic terms imaginable? It's not about my "entertainment" so I can laugh at these poor schmucks like the sadistic asshole that I supposedly am! Maybe I actually have some empathy and wanted to know precisely what these men are going through in order to get a more concrete and practical sense of their plight for the purposes of offering some assistance? Just a thought! Fuck me for being curious. But whatever, it's your blog!
Blackdragon 2016-03-10 23:40:47
Worse than that?Yep. Was she Indian? Haha.
Fuck me for being curious. But whatever, it’s your blog!Jack. Decaf. Try some.
Chris 2016-03-11 00:14:25
One issue is that I think many Indian guys, especially if raised in the West almost obsessively and exclusively pursue white women. It seems like they are rarely with any woman that isn't either Indian(2nd choice) or white(1st choice). Either that or they just stay single. I've been around on forums for quite some time and I've seen so many Indian guys with the same, "how do I get white girls" posts over and over again. I think maybe they need to open a bit and not put white chics on a pedestal. White girls aren't the only women on the planet. But many of them from what I've seen, seem to have no interest in any other type of woman.
Alejo 2016-03-11 05:02:00
Yeah. Though frankly, of the non-white races, Hispanic guys need the least amount of help. But it’s coming, yep.Let me guess, Hispanic people that needs help are the ones raised mostly by their mothers only? The more masculines ones falls under the Alpha 1.0 umbrella?
Bobby 2016-03-11 06:37:14
Alejo.... I am Hispanic, and you're probably more or less right. Mom (and other women) feed you all sorts of SP about men being pigs; and dad will tell you to be the best pig you can be and embrace it proudly.
POB 2016-03-11 07:50:20
Always thought Indian guys could have some upside on western women (not just white) because they fall on the "exotic and sensual" archetype most girls crave. Damn, If I were Indian I would play that part to the max!!! Guys, please, follow the advice given here and go make yourselves happy!
ThatIndianGuy 2016-03-11 11:23:00
Haha. As an Indian guy (born and bred) who moved to the West after college, this is pretty much spot on. My family's actually pretty liberal (so my brain re-wiring was not as extensive as the kind of guys BD talks about), but there's a reason I only lost my virginity after I came here in my early 20s (mind you I've more than made up for it since - early 30s now). It's a combination of two things - the attitudes BD talks about (and therefore the lack of opportunities to interact with women, although it's changing now in some upper class parts of India), AND the automatic tendency to blame any lack of success in the West on race, when it really isn't about race (same dynamic with short guys by the way - if you have a chip on your shoulder about your height you will automatically blame any failures on being short and not on your likely victim mentality and shitty negative mindsets). Any Indian guys reading this - trust me when I say I am living proof that your race DOES NOT MATTER. Your attitude and your mindset are the key. Oh and as BD has pointed out in another posts - try not to live up to the stereotype of Indians in the West (don't be nerdy, wimpy and socially awkward and show some sexual intent). Also, in my experience the Indian accent is not a disadvantage either (that doesn't mean you should have a comedy Apu from Simpsons Indian accent though). One place where it IS harder for Indian guys is in online dating. Because women can only judge you on the stereotype when they are not standing there in person with you, so you'll do really badly. It's possible to still get results online (following BD's advice for online dating will do most of the job plus emphasising how you don't live up to the stereotypes), but honestly, it's not worth the effort. Just get out there and meet girls in real life.
BlindIo 2016-03-11 11:28:20
Off topic, but a thought occurs. In the recent post about happiness we theorized over reasons that women seem to "need" to experience negative feelings and will manufacture drama if there is none. We also know that sperm makes women happy. Could it be that in tribal times, female histrionics was a way for them to get men to fuck them to shut them up?
Blackdragon 2016-03-11 11:54:46
One issue is that I think many Indian guys, especially if raised in the West almost obsessively and exclusively pursue white women.I have noticed this too, yes. They worship / pedestalize white women for some reason, in a way that black, Hispanic, and Asian guys don't. I think it goes back to the self-esteem / SP stuff from their upbringings.
Always thought Indian guys could have some upside on western women (not just white) because they fall on the “exotic and sensual” archetype most girls crave. Damn, If I were Indian I would play that part to the max!!!Absolutely agree, 100%. Being a different race is often a strength that is not utilized by Indian guys, since A) they're not black and don't have that social stigma attached, and B) they tend to be better-looking than Asian guys.
Justin 2016-03-11 12:05:16
Blindo you make me laugh with your progressive theories and insights. I dated an Indian girl who said she never really "thought about" sex much one way or the other, but if you listen to her stories of how her parents raised her and what she was told / scolded / "protected" by her mother and father, you see why she was shut down inside before she could even reach her own conclusions. Once she got as taste of outcome independence and alpha, she all of a sudden started caring...
Sam 2016-03-12 23:19:16
I'm an Indian guy part of BD's coaching program who is having success with getting laid with hot women non monogamously. I was raised in India living in the West. During the first 25 years of my life I was fed with the most disgusting garbage of negative sexual programming that you could imagine. I digested all that without any critical thinking. This made up for a unhappy sex life as you could assume. I am 31 now and it took me years of exposure to reality and truths regarding sex and taking massive action to come out successfully on the other side. I was constantly torn between intense desire to have a mad hot sex life and negative bullshit garbage lurking in my head pulling me to the direction of abstinence from sex(Its funny to see these in words but that's how it worked for years). In addition to BD, I took help from proven guys in the community both for advice and infield coaching. Chris and AJ if you want to know. This helped me correct obvious mistakes that most Indian men would make. More importantly I learned how effective it would be to get laid with Western women if I have more western polishing as well as having no negative attitudes towards sex. BD helped me clear a lot of negative limiting beliefs and fears that I had with sexual beliefs, STD fears and sexual anxiety. I don't want to go into details but some of his advice would sound super radical to the uninitiated, I'm glad I took it to heart, took action, and now enjoying the fruits of my labor. I slept with 2 new hot women in 2016 already and had sex with 3 women last month. That marked the milestone of starting to enjoy my Alpha Male 2.0 lifestyle when it comes to women life. I have unending gratitude to BD, because if it not for his help and also because of him being the ideal role model for Alpha Male 2.0 I wouldn't have even dared to grow into the man that I wanted to be. Getting rid of negative sexual programming is not easy or fun nor a fast process, but doing so and repeatedly monitoring yourself is the key to sexual success for Indian men. I hope more Indian men who really want to improve read this and take this advice to heart.
RealAdvice 2016-03-16 07:32:59
It's pretty comical that most of the advice here is about attitudes and overcoming societal programming. The main reason most Indian guys in the west don't get laid ( esp with white western women ) is because they look like crap. They dress horribly, have no fitness, and are usually in some high tech or science disciplen ( more nerdyness ). Add in the stereotypical Indian accent and possible less than perfect English and you are pretty much the last thing a white girl wants to fuck. Now, if you happen to be a GOOD looking Indian guy ( like the ones in Bollywood movies, or Indian athletes ) then I'm pretty sure unless your a giant pussy you lost likely arnt on PUA forums crying about "white women hate me". No amount of game is gonna save these Indian guys that look the complete opposite of sexy. They need to focus all their effort on the gym and then fashion. After that is settled THEN black dragons advice becomes valid. Then and only then should you bother to learn some game and shift your mindset. Hell, I'd even go so far as to recommend using steroids. Would probably get you a lot closer to pussy with white women than staying as you are yet "learning" game. Anyone who disagrees is dillusional and trying to sell you snake oil. Dragons products are good, but they arnt gonna work miracles on an un-sexy Indian guy.
amber 2016-03-17 17:46:55
I have noticed this too, yes. They worship / pedestalize white women for some reason, in a way that black, Hispanic, and Asian guys don’t. I think it goes back to the self-esteem / SP stuff from their upbringings.I went on about 3 dates, with an East Indian. This is EXACTLY what happened and I was confused as to why. He was an Erik Estrada type. I was really excited to go on the date but when I met up with him things got all weird and I couldn't figure out why. So I tried a couple more dates and realized it just wasn't there. Plus he also made all these odd comments about sex and sexuality that I didn't fully understand until I read this.
Reformed Brown Dude 2016-03-17 22:15:04
Indian guy success story and realization, might be kinda long so sorry about length. Want to share my experience as an Indian guy who practically got hit with the worst of both worlds and was eventually saved by advice like this on the internet. I had the typical Indian immigrant parents and this was their belief on life: 1. Study hard in school to get good grades, ignore girls and social life. My dad made damn sure I didn't play any sports growing up and put the whole Ivy League/Top University dream on the pedestal. 2. Girls are bad, girls are a distraction, and every single time a girl took interest in me my dad would simply create hell at home. I still remember him shouting things like "talking to girls? What is happening to this boy, he is going to end up in jail soon!". 3. Avoid confrontations AT ALL COSTS! When bullied or slapped, NEVER retaliate. It is okay to get pushed around and be bullied (I will talk about this at the very end). The amount of guilt tripping that goes on in Indian culture by Indian parents is insane, literally no shame. Indian parents will screw their sons over worse than world's worst bully. My dad used to regularly shout at me, crush my self-esteem, and told me that I was a no good piece of shit. Mom used to always compare me to the Indian kid that got into Harvard and say things such as "I wish I had a son like that". Sometimes I wonder if Indian dads have a "crabs in a bucket mentality" towards their sons gaming white girls. The Indian dad got forced into an arranged marriage, why should his son get a chance to be with a white girl? Now to make matters worse, I was also growing up in a part of the USA which is very conservative. Lots of hardcore Evangelical Ted Cruz supporter types who looked down on sex before marriage. I feel that did as much damage to my psyche as being with Indian parents. I spent my adolescence and early 20s on internet forums and tons of them to be exact, Bodybuilding.com in particular, where the racism towards Indian men being undesirable was just insane. So I practically had three strong strikes on my psyche. I was at a point in my life where I literally felt like killing myself. Eventually after throwing away all of my teens and most of my early 20s in college where I missed chances with hot girls, I finally said fuck it. Enough is quite literally enough at this point. I hit the gym, became more outgoing, hit the bar scene, hit on more girls, applied a lot of what I read online, and trucked through some hardcore rejections. I hit the gym and after a year the results finally came in. At some point in my 20s I lost my virginity to this one slutty tanned brunette who was cute but slutty as hell, my lay count is almost in the double digits. I have been with a variety of girls from Latinas to a busty blonde sorority sister. If I would screw girls that I consider below a 7, it would have been well in the double digits. Got into one relationship with this Brazilian blonde with a volleyball player body and a nice pair of titts. We had so much wild sex that it got to a point that we would spend an entire day just fucking. I still remember that one time we were on the beach and cuddled up under a towel. She grabbed my dick but I had to get to the hotel room. We quickly walked there (it was nearby) and I was afraid the whole time that I might end up cumming while on my way there but we got there! The satisfaction of fucking her raw and hard after finally making it to the hotel room. We fucked and laid in bed naked that day for so long that it was midnight before we realized we had to get something to eat. Instead of getting normal fancy food for dinner, we had to resort to having McDonalds but damn fun life experience! The truth is, America and India are polar opposites. Americans value STRENGTH while Indians are the biggest PACIFISTS on the planet. When invaded by the British, the Americans fought back and beat the hell out of the Brits. Indians begged and went full on pacifist against them. Americans LOVE the tough guys, it is why Trump has had so much success because of the persona he gives off. Indian guys give off a more Jeb Bush like persona which Americans just don't fall for. American culture values physical sports like football and MMA while Indian culture absolutely despises sports and puts them well below academics. Americans go into a situation wanting to dominate and beat the hell out of the opposition. Indians go into the situation wanting to appear as polite as possible and back down quickly after any sign of a confrontation. American women do not give a damn about your six figure job or fancy degree, they will screw a bartender over a doctor any day. Indians pride themselves on their education and good grades, that dries up the pussies of American girls. Of all the things that are excusable in American culture, the one thing Americans will not excuse is being a spineless wimp.
The Machine 2016-03-20 18:37:03
That’s saying a lot, because I’m including the Muslim Middle East in there. Those Muslims may have insane and sky-high anti-sex SP, but at least those guys can have up to four wives and can talk about sex freely with their buddies.Yo BD! I'm an American Muslim. Alpha 1.0. Transitioning to 2.0. I just thought I'd let you know I read all your blogs and follow your advice. At risk of being ragged on by everyone (because it's cool to tell those damn MOZLEMS to F*/- themselves right now) your impression of the middle east while not as bad as say Indians (a large segment of which are Muslims) is a little skewed. But that's ok, so is everyone's man - so no hard feelings. The point I wanted to make was that you should see what's actually happening in terms of the relationship between men and women in the middle east. It's a lot more liberal than most parts of the US - no seriously. It's ALL about sex - so much of it openly. There are two specific (countries) exceptions to this trend. The whole 4 wives BS, though legal, in practice doesn't fly with women or men, and it's been that way for decades. Yes some men marry more than once, but if the wife has a brother or any kind of family there will be hell to pay for her husband if they found out he's marrying more than one woman. It just hardly happens. When it does, the media covers it man. But never mind family, the women themselves dont accept it, and it could result in the man getting his ass whooped, to having half his crap given to the woman in court. Moreover, middle eastern women have had these freedoms that we enjoy here in the US for a long time too. In my ancestral home country, more than 60% of women over 30 are unmarried and have no intention of being married. No one grabs them and puts them in jail. and in terms of sex, you should see how prevalent it is to pick up a girl in a bar in that country. S*** I get raped by these women when I visit because I'm a successful American. The only cases you hear about are the exceptions to the general trend. I don't care how many people get on TV and talk about this or that that Muslims did or didn't do. S*** happens, but not as much as people think it does. People question the right-wing and left-wing media in the US about everything, except when they talk about Muslims. They like taking their words for it about that subject. And why not - someone needs to take the blame for all the bad decisions our government makes. Anyway, lets get back to the fun topic at hand - getting game, to getting laid. If Indians want to understand how tough it can be to get laid in America, put that you're a Muslim on your dating profile, see how many hits you get - none. And yet, with Game, you/I can and have gotten 7s-10s in all shapes, sizes, races and forms, without lying with some acceptable code of conduct. If you ask me, ALL OF YOU, black, white, monogmaous, non-monogamous, Indian, Latin etc. have it so easy. So for those who whine, puh...lease.... Not even worth my 2 cents, but I' claim it anyway. I'm curious to see whether I'll get hated on here or whether I'll be accepted as a fellow Bro. It's my first comment.
Blackdragon 2016-03-21 10:18:23
The whole 4 wives BS, though legal, in practice doesn’t fly with women or men, and it’s been that way for decades. Yes some men marry more than once, but if the wife has a brother or any kind of family there will be hell to pay for her husband if they found out he’s marrying more than one woman. It just hardly happens.Are you 100% sure what you're saying isn't country-specific? In other words, are you saying that's the deal in ALL Muslim countries? It sounds like that's the situation in your home country but not necessarily in others. I have not done the research on this so I wouldn't know.
Avad 2016-04-07 04:20:09
Okay you people want an example of how fucked things are over here in India I ll give you my personal example. I have an FB (6/10) who I fuck regularly. We used to have sex in a new apartment which I had bought( I am 27 she's 25 I think) My father doubted that I spent several nights i n that room so what he does is instead of speaking to me directly he FOLLOWs me in night....WAITs for 2 hours outside and barges in the room at 3 am in morning. Lucky I used to lock the door from inside. Then proceeds to tell me that he wants to meet the girl and unless I make him meet her I ll not be allowed to come at home. He kicked me out for 4 days when I refused. He still spys on my phone etc. Lol.
Blackdragon 2016-04-07 10:05:18
How can your dad barge into your room at 3am if you're 27 years old? Do you live with him? If you do, you caused your own problem.
Dude 2016-06-04 16:15:27
Guys, I am an Indian, I have been in Europe for the last 10 years. I had one serious and long relationship with a white girl apart from many short flings with other white girls. Of course, I don't discriminate pussies and like them from everywhere !! My fav being the exotic girls from South America!! 😀 Some of my suggestions that I can just think about immediately: Meet the locals: Anyway, let me give you some suggetions, like most of you I too have an engineering background, that too an IIT, if i remember in my batch there was 1 girl out of 39 and 17 girls out of 300 odd in the whole class. So, you can guess how much success I had in my college. But I was always a very friendly, interactive guy who always liked to meet new people and make new friends. So, whichever country I had stayed, I was very quickly close to the locals. I liked drinking their drinks, eating their food and smoking their stuff. In short, they could all see me as a part of them, which is very important for the girls to feel comfortable. 2. Don't always stay in same group: Another thing I have seen, Indians outside, they always stay and go in their own groups, especially students, i am not saying there is anything wrong in this, but you are missing the chance to mingle with the locals and a chance to open up. Especially in places like Clubs, parties etc 3. Gymming: Western people mostly are very much health conscious, If I try to think, I don't have a single fat person that I know and that too in every age range. So, it is important to stay healthy fit and actually go to gym. And not just doing the treadmill or some cardio exercises, actually doing some pumping to bring out some muscles. And if you happen to be a vegetarian, it could be little difficult. This is hard work and needs motivation, but if you can do it, you'll be the one who will have the results. 4. Extra curriculars - Indians have the habbit of being one dimensional, where the focus is always on studies. Now since you all are outside, you really have the opportunity to make some lifelong nice hobbies, which will also make your personality more interesting. During one year of my MBA in Europe, I picked up snowboarding (a big big fan), Salsa (great way to be close to women), sailing (again opportunities to be close to women), wind sailing, Gokarting, Wine Tasting (another channel), Golfing etc. These are some stuff that I just started with my friends, but you can actually think and decide where your interest lies and go with a strategy. 5. Confidence - Especially due to SP, Indian guys are not so confident when it comes to talking and behaving with girls. when to talk, what to talk etc. Here if you spend a lot of time with local guys, you'll get a good idea. Otherwise, just be a man and keep trying and learn by trail and error, you might get rejections, but with every rejection you will learn something new. Overall, if you have a pleasant personality, you are not pussy in front of girls, you have a good athletic body, you are witty and charming in front of the girls, there is no doubt there would be many girls who would be thinking about you. In short you have to go towards Alpha 2.0 as BD describes. I can tell you from my experience, many white girls like our skin tone, they think we are exotic, its just a matter of the girls being comfortable around you guys!! All the best
Baharatman 2016-12-18 20:13:45
Not sure if this post is still active but Black Dragon, I am an Indian guy that was born and raised in the USA but in a more strict part of the country where there is a lot of poverty and the average girl isn't very hot (basically bumfuck middle of nowhere type of town). I am wondering, what are some good US cities for Indian guys or guys who look ethnically Indian? You say you've seen Indian guys pull hot girls and get laid like rockstars, what US cities have you personally seen or met Indian guys that are having a lot of success with women? Especially with white girls.
Blackdragon 2016-12-19 11:10:41
Not sure if this post is still active but Black DragonAll posts on this blog remain active for comments forever.
I am wondering, what are some good US cities for Indian guys or guys who look ethnically Indian?There is no such thing. Regardless, two things: 1. Cities in the south tend to be more racist than cities in the north. 2. Cities in any part of the country are always better than small towns. So if you live in a small town, get the hell out of there and move to a city of at least 1-2 million people.
You say you’ve seen Indian guys pull hot girls and get laid like rockstars, what US cities have you personally seen or met Indian guys that are having a lot of success with women? Especially with white girls.I could rattle off a list of 4-5 cities but I won't, because it has nothing to do with the city. It has to do with them and their level of game and work.
Baharatman 2016-12-19 13:24:20
@BlackDragon There is no such thing When you say that, do you mean that Indian guys just have it rough in all major cities or that an Indian guy can do well in just about any major city? Maybe 4 or 5 is too much, but how about 2 or 3 cities where you've seen multiple Indian guys having a lot of success? I get the impression that location matters a lot from the experience of a black friend of mines who was not doing too well down south but did really well in Arizona.
Blackdragon 2016-12-19 15:46:18
When you say that, do you mean that Indian guys just have it rough in all major cities or that an Indian guy can do well in just about any major city?As I've said many times in my books and blogs, any man who is not white is going to have a harder time fucking white women, in any city, anywhere on Earth. That doesn't mean it's impossible. It means you have to work harder and put in more numbers.
Maybe 4 or 5 is too much, but how about 2 or 3 cities where you’ve seen multiple Indian guys having a lot of success?Nope. The city has absolutely nothing to do with it (other than cities which are overtly more racist, like in the South.)
I get the impression that location matters a lotYou are wrong.
from the experience of a black friend of mines who was not doing too well down south but did really well in Arizona.As I said, the South is more racist, so this makes sense. If you live in the South, then yes, move to the North, but the particular city you pick in the North doesn't matter at all.
Poskosker 2017-04-20 21:37:26
Hi Blackdragon, I notice that I see Indian guys dating the cute dorky brunette and even seen a few date redheads but I never see them with the Denise Richards or a young Jenna Jameson lookalikes so I wanted to ask this. Come to think of it, I have never seen an Indian guy pull this feat off and I am originally from NYC so I have seen all sorts of interracial couples but the All American blonde hottie with an Indian guy. Black guys seem to do real well with them though. Say you had an Indian guy who was culturally assimilated into American culture and all but he had aspirations of almost exclusively dating hot blondes, women that are your type. What is the bare minimum he would need to bring to the table? Are we talking million bucks and being the top 1% man or what?
Illmatician2 2017-04-23 19:20:34
@Blackdragon I disagree with your saying that guys who aren't white will have a tougher time fucking white women in any city on earth. Any city in the US? Definitely but not on earth. TBH, I've noticed that the disdain towards minorities is really only an Anglo white women thing as opposed to being a thing among all white women. A lot of it might have to do with America's messed up history towards interracial relationships involving white women with men of other races. I think that a lot of white American women with good looks avoid minorities because they are afraid of having to deal with angry white guys and just an angry American society in general. I have seen black guys absolutely clean up in very white European countries and do far better than their white counterparts. When I went to France a couple years ago, I noticed that the black and Trinidadian guy (but looked Indian) who were on the trip with us managed to better with women than the two white guys we went with, this despite all four guys being in great shape and charismatic. White women were approaching them and telling them they had sexy skin, they definitely had a leg up for sure. The white guys were actually getting most of their attention from Asian and Arab French women, not the white ones. I would also say that if location is practically everything if you are not a white guy in the US, it matters far more than you think. In certain parts of the country like New Jersey, a lot of New York City, and San Francisco, Indian men have a terrible reputation mostly due to Indian immigrants giving them a bad name. Women do not stop to evaluate if the guy is normal anymore, they just see Indian and they run the other way, this is particularly true for white women that value social status (most hot blondes). In other cities, Indian guys work with a clean slate to where a cool one that follows your advice can do quite well. As for why it is so rare, almost unheard of, to see Indian guys do well with hot blondes in the US it's because those women value social status and in a lot of cities such as NYC and San Fran, dating an Indian guy (no matter how cool) is a hit to social status.
Anon 2017-04-25 17:24:40
Blackdragon, The distinction you have to make is that Indian men from India are extremely different from Indian men who were born in the West. The former have that stupid accent (truly the worst accent in the world), are short and weak, and many have not mastered deodorant. The latter have none of these disadvantages (they are often 4-6 inches taller, and in much better shape). They are often not seen as Indians even, which is another plus. About a third of them end up marrying white women. If you observe the differences between these two groups, you might come up with some fascinating insights.
Anon 2017-04-25 17:28:04
To all the Indian guys obsessing over 'will this work?' or 'what if this?', quit it! You have no business posing all these questions until you have done 100 daytime approaches. This does not take much time if you can muster up the courage to do it. They can be very benign, indirect approaches that are nothing more than small talk. Do that first (99% of Indian guys, and 90% of white guys can't do that). THEN you can start posing questions. Otherwise, you are just wasting time, and frankly more time than it would take to do 100 approaches. No matter what, you will not get anywhere without the ability to do daytime approaches.
Anon 2017-04-25 17:57:46
There is an elephant in the room, that needs to be called out. The only reason that Indian men pursue white women at all is the fact that Indian women are totally bereft of female delight. They are not pretty enough, their attitudes towards sex are all wrong, and they are terrible in bed. This is why Indian men want to go elsewhere. If Indian women were better, there would be no reason to go elsewhere. Even Oriental/Chinese guys don't have this problem, because their own women are pretty good (even if many go for white guys). Indian women need to start feeling the cost of their own uncompetitiveness.
Anon 2017-04-25 18:09:31
Chris, <i>One issue is that I think many Indian guys, especially if raised in the West almost obsessively and exclusively pursue white women.</i> Your question answers itself. These Indian boys went to a K-12 school (in the 80s and 90s) where all of the females were white. That is what imprinted on them. The same would happen if a single white boy went to a school in India since Kindergarten - he would prefer Indian women as an adult. For schoolkids today, there are more brown people (Indians, Hispanics, etc.) so this may become less, but the willingness of white women to date them will rise, as they were part of HER K-12 experience in sufficient numbers. So while only 50% of white women in their 30s would date an Indian guy today, I bet in 20 years time, that number will be 80-90%, just due to familiarly. Remember that Indians will never have the stigma that blacks do for white women, since Indians America are economically more successful than whites, not less (which is the main reason white parents don't want their daughter dating a black guy unless he is a pro athlete or successful entertainer).
Illmatician2 2017-04-29 14:41:32
@ Anon: There really isn't that big of a gap between the success rate of FOBs and more assimilated Indian men. White women that dislike Indian men don't dislike them for game and cultural reasons, it is more due to their ethnic features and the fact that it is pretty damn taboo in American society (especially these days due to Alt Right culture on the rise) for that pretty blonde to go for that Kal Penn lookalike. I have met a few cool assimilated Indian guys and while they might luck out with a black or Hispanic woman every now and then, most hot white American girls I've noticed wanted nothing to do with them. Even the assimilated ones have to deal with the stereotypical helicopter parents and getting good grades, that doesn't appeal so much to American culture. You're kidding yourself if you think the white washed Indian guy is doing that much better.
Anon 2017-06-10 23:49:49
You’re kidding yourself if you think the white washed Indian guy is doing that much better. False. Plenty of 2nd gen Indian-American men have married pretty white women.. Plus, a number of pretty Western actresses/celebs married 2nd-gen Indian men who were far less famous than them. Elizabeth Hurley Christina Hendricks Gwen Stefani Sarah McLachlan Fran Drescher Kelli Williams (TV Actress); 3 kids. Some of these ended in divorces, but that happens to apex white men too (see Brad Pitt, Harrison Ford, etc.). What is notable is that each of the above women actually married an Indian guy much less famous than them. Elizabeth Hurley gave a lot of her prime years to an Indian guy.
Michael Singh 2017-07-03 05:43:07
Im a Punjabi American born and raised in USA.. ive never had a problem with any race of girls luckily haha... i know alot of these indian stereotypes are bad like "beta" tech support.. i never actually knew about these stereotypes.. I grew up around the Punjabi Sikh community which is pretty opposite of all indian stereotypes.. we have warrior fighters blood my grandparents were wrestlers or in the army.. Alot of non indian girls even say I look like Ranveer Singh the bollywood actor!! anyways there a dude in the comments that said blondes wont date indians and LOL thats such a big lie .. i know the opposite for a fact.. the problem is indian guys dont try with them .. plus me and blackdragon agree when Mixed race girls are the sexiest 😉
PK 2017-09-13 10:15:09
All of that huge, anti-sex SP drilled into Indian guys from a young age reminds me of a story. About 10 years ago, my best friend got a job with a private provider of STD testing. They were based in the Midwest. When a potential customer would call, my friend would help them determine what tests they probably needed and would close the sale. The tests were not cheap, I think averaging about $300 (US). The typical customer would be someone like a travelling businessman who had sex with a hooker and was now worried after the fact about having gotten an STD. My buddy told me of fielding numerous calls from Indian guys. Some had perhaps gone to a strip club but all they did was watch. Some had only done something as innocent as watching porn. There was no biological way they could have contracted an STD in these situations. My friend would even point this out to them, that buying the tests would really just be a waste of their money. They would acknowledge that and STILL order all the tests they could!
Stefanos Papadopoulos 2018-11-17 04:50:56
BD, can you please please please make one or two more of this? Balkan, and Eastern European(including georgia, armenia, cyprus etc.) We are generally perfectly fine, in our home countries, but when it comes to North America, we can have trouble.