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I Officially Disavow and Repudiate Rapey PUA
If you’re curious as to the reason for this post, or to the wording I’m about to use, realize that because of recent events as reported in the media, and on the advice of my legal counsel, I have been forced to make a public statement like this for legal reasons as a public provider of dating and relationship advice.I really wish I didn’t have to make a statement like this, but regardless, everything I’m about to say I believe with 100% conviction.
-By Caleb Jones
To be clear:
1. I hereby disavow and repudiate, with every fiber of my being, the act of rape. I lay out my precise definition for the terms “rape” and “sexual assault” in this article. For the rest of this blog post, I will be using those definitions for “rape” and “sexual assault” in that article. If you continue to read this blog post, it is assumed that you have read the linked article above and understand what my definition of rape and sexual assault is, and that I’m talking about said definition, not any other definition.
2. I hereby disavow and repudiate, with every fiber of my being, the act of having sex with a woman who cannot consent, such as women who are very drunk or unconscious. (I’m not talking about having sex with a woman who’s had a drink or two. That’s not rape, and that happens a million times a day all across the world. I’m talking about having sex with a woman who is so drunk that she cannot consent to sexual acts.)
3. I hereby disavow and repudiate, with every fiber of my being, any techniques that physically force an unwilling woman to have sex with a man or engage in sexual acts with a man. I do not teach any technique that comes even close to this description in any of my blogs or books.
4. I hereby disavow and repudiate, with every fiber of my being, anyone who says rape (as defined in the above linked article) is acceptable, or acceptable under certain conditions.
This applies even if said statements are made by someone else on a website I own, or have owned in the past, or have/had some other connection thereto. As I’ve already clearly stated in Part Three of this article, I own numerous web sites with millions of readers per year, and I do not have the ability to personally police everything said on all of these sites, nor do I wish to as a proponent of free speech. Just because you might be able to find something written by some random dumbass, buried deep in a web site I own or used to own, doesn’t mean that I agree with it. I do not. I stand by what I say. I do not stand by anything anyone else says, even on a website I own or have been associated with.
5. I hereby disavow and repudiate, with every fiber of my being, any person in the PUA community or manosphere who does any of the above four items, or who endorses anyone who does any of the above four items.
6. I do not teach any technique, nor have I ever, in any of my blogs or books, that recommends or endorses anything having to do with forcing an unwilling woman to do anything with a man. Indeed, I teach the exact opposite; the entire Alpha Male 2.0 man and lifestyle I teach and recommend purposely and consciously involves not telling women to do anything, but to instead find women who already want what you want, spend time with those women, and quickly moving on from women who don’t want what you want, including and especially those women who don’t want to have sex with you.
On a personal note, it’s quite disappointing that I have to take the time to make a statement like this. When I first started reading stuff from the PUA community starting way back in 2006, PUA was simply a group of guys who were helping other guys get better at dating and meeting women, which is a skill most modern day men are in desperate need of. Some of the techniques that were taught back then were silly and stupid, but there was no malice in anything that was taught or the messaging behind it. There was actually a fun vibe to it all.
In the last three years or so, as I've already talked about several times before, this has radically shifted, which is both unfortunate and disturbing. Some in the PUA community and manosphere, not all, but a few, have decided to defend rape (as defined by the linked article above) or promote techniques that are equivalent to sexual assault. I want no part of it, I have no part of it, and I never will.So to be clear, I'm not disavowing all PUA. I'm just disavowing the rapey stuff. Non-rapey dating skills are very important, and a necessary skill men need today. We've all seen the pain, unhappiness, dysfunction, and even death that occurs when men don't know how to get laid, and/or have no skills with how to successfully relate to women.
Sorry for the negativity and legalese in this post. It had to be done. Next time we’ll return to the usual, helpful Blackdragon articles. I've got a big, important article going up on Monday that I've worked on for a long time, to help set you right for the New Year. Thanks for your patience and understanding everyone.
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J 2016-12-29 05:21:47
I know about Roosh's article that was attacked awhile back ago, but what was the recent event where a pua was found guilty of rape?
Makeshift 2016-12-29 05:25:18
What prompted this? I did some cursory searching and wasn't really able to find much.
Neil 2016-12-29 05:42:56
Rick Axis 2016-12-29 08:24:56
WTF this is some disturbing stuff... could you write down a list of the guys that actually think like that? I've witnessed a growing negativity the last few years as well with a lot of men taking this "red pill stuff" the wrong way and going all dark side. It's really sad. The truth can either free you or destroy you. Bring out the best in you or the worst. Sadly, it seems many fall into the last category. But to end on a positive note: can't wait for January 2th GO TIME!!!
Michelle 2016-12-29 09:12:31
I appreciate this very much. Sorry you had to do it but thank you for doing so.
Marsupial 2016-12-29 09:29:18
"I uncovered this whole world that I did not know existed," she said in a statement to a San Diego court in July. [A world] of pick-up artists — men who blogged about their interactions with women, bragged about how many they slept with, and egged each other on with advice and insults of how they should manipulate and objectify women." Manipulating women is not rape and not illegal. People attempting to persuade people to do stuff is normal human interaction. Objectifying women (whatever the hell that is) is not rape and is not illegal. Putting your dick in a drunk, passed-out woman, however, totally is rape and very illegal and you will got to prison for it. Interesting that neither the "PUAs" who did this (scare quotes because there's not a lot of artistry going on here) nor many SJWs seem to get this. Different sides of the same coin.
Blackdragon 2016-12-29 10:09:52
What prompted this?The Alex Smith case, as Neil linked to above. It's been a long time coming though.
could you write down a list of the guys that actually think like that?No. If you're really interested, do your own research. I've even had to remove the links section from my sidebar because of this crap.
I’ve witnessed a growing negativity the last few years as well with a lot of men taking this “red pill stuff” the wrong way and going all dark side.Yes. I think a lot of it is, like Trump and Brexit, increased blowback against increasing SJW influence over society. That doesn't make it right though. As usual, both sides have now gone insane.
“I uncovered this whole world that I did not know existed,” she said in a statement to a San Diego court in July. [A world] of pick-up artists — men who blogged about their interactions with women, bragged about how many they slept with, and egged each other on with advice and insults of how they should manipulate and objectify women.” Manipulating women is not rape and not illegal. People attempting to persuade people to do stuff is normal human interaction.Correct. The stuff you quoted is just typical anti-PUA stuff, not the rapey shit I'm talking about.
Objectifying women (whatever the hell that is) is not rape and is not illegal. Putting your dick in a drunk, passed-out woman, however, totally is rape and very illegal and you will got to prison for it. Interesting that neither the “PUAs” who did this (scare quotes because there’s not a lot of artistry going on here) nor many SJWs seem to get thisYep. As I've said before, the jerks in this industry just make it that much harder for guys like me.
K 2016-12-29 10:18:33
@Marsupial I agree with your distinctions. At the same time, I relate to the confusion of a naive woman who, for the first time, learns that there are men who view women as tools meant to be used as pleasure/relief providers, and not as human beings worth at least a basic level of respect. Joining Michelle's thanks to BD.
Rick Axis 2016-12-29 10:44:28
No. If you’re really interested, do your own research. I’ve even had to remove the links section from my sidebar because of this crap.No problem my man. But like you predicted, it's getting worse...
POB 2016-12-29 11:54:25
As a matter of fact, If you think carefully, even SJW would have to admit guys like you are fighting the good fight. If a man who is clueless about women wants to get laid and happens to find a technique that teaches him to do it the right way (one that's not violent or illegal AND respects women at the same time), he will most likely be nauseated by the dark side alternatives, like any normal human being should. Problem is the noise is so loud these definitions are completely lost, and a guy like BD, who only teaches men to have sex with complying women using simple seduction techniques must come forward and apologize for....nothing. Shame. This rape culture produced scary side-effects: 1) actual rape is not being taken so seriously anymore (if everything shocks, nothing shocks); 2) fan-fic is very profitable and (unfortunately) we have to be careful about what we believe from women on the media, especially on the internet; 3) it's getting really hard to identify real rapists...the definition became so broad that regular sex/male desire and rape are being mixed into a very confusing thing; I remember some time ago there was this stupid campaign down here with the absurd motto: "I don't deserve to be raped" http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-26820786 It all started because of a government research that purposefully had a glitch. Of course they were trying to create news and divert attention from their own corruption scandals. Problem is people fell for it. What was the result? A bunch of women getting naked and painting their bodies to protest against...rape. WTF???
Tug Speedman 2016-12-29 12:31:29
I've been in the PUA scene for about 13 years, more as a lurker than a commenter, and part of what got me out of the scene was just how aggressive and obnoxious some of these dudes were getting. The Game and Mystery Method, along with David Deangelo''s book were great tools for building a solid game that work to this day. Unfortunately some PUAs, in order to separate themselves from the pack decided to get more and more extreme and aggressive, and the comment sections..it was like one big frat house, and while it wasn't encouraging rape culture, it definitely gave people a false sense of entitlement, leading people to believe if you just do a certain thing, you'll have a 100% success rate. So many of these guys are actually beta bitch boys that get the worst cases of ONEITIS when they actually meet a woman that they'd like to fuck more than once. I used to be like that too, I'd get laid all the time no problem, but I was just a beta that knew game, thank God I found this blog, it's the perfect blog for game aware men that want to enrich their lives, and the commenter's actually speak like actual adults and not trolls
Tug Speedman 2016-12-29 12:45:44
I also understand why you had to post this, because as we've seen with Milo and Twitter, the SJWs have no problem blaming and holding someone responsible for what their fans/followers say or post on the internet.
JB 2016-12-29 14:16:15
Before discovering this blog, I was actually an avid night-gamer, and I noticed that most of the problems that arise with "rapey behavior" comes from night game. Since night game for me did involve some pretty brute moves (i.e. making out with girls before a word has been said, pulling girls home within minutes etc), I can see why this road of "increased boldness" could lead to - even "accidental" - sexual assault (i.e. the situation was adressed incorrectly, and the girl was super drunk / not that interested). After this blog opened my eyes to online game - and I got to consistent results almost immediately - I've noticed how much better it is to always be safe to know that the girl isn't intoxicated, the frame is clear, the actual process is clear and not obscured by music / sounds / sensations other than from me, so she knows exactly what she's "buying". Another advantage to online game! Happy new years to everyone. I don't even need to fill up my MLTR/FB rooster, so I'll have plenty of time and energy to spend Go Time on fitness and work.
Blackdragon 2016-12-29 15:48:50
it’s getting really hard to identify real rapists…the definition became so broad that regular sex/male desire and rape are being mixed into a very confusing thingThat was one of my points in my original article about this here. If everything becomes "rape," then it becomes much harder to identify real rapists, and victims of real rape become devalued.
So many of these guys are actually beta bitch boys that get the worst cases of ONEITIS when they actually meet a woman that they’d like to fuck more than onceTrue, and I've made that observation before. Few men get hardcore oneitis like an experienced PUA. I've seen it happen many, many times.
I also understand why you had to post this, because as we’ve seen with Milo and Twitter, the SJWs have no problem blaming and holding someone responsible for what their fans/followers say or post on the internet.Correct. There's still no guarantee it won't happen to me if this stuff gets really bad out there, but I've at least reduced my odds a bit.
I noticed that most of the problems that arise with “rapey behavior” comes from night game.Good point, and I have noticed the same. I can't think of one case of this rapey stuff being attached to daygame or online dating, just night game. This makes sense since unlike daygame and online dating, night game is A) completely focused on the single night lay and B) usually involves alcohol.
I can see why this road of “increased boldness” could lead to – even “accidental” – sexual assault (i.e. the situation was adressed incorrectly, and the girl was super drunk / not that interested).That's a very good point and I've never considered that. I think you're right. It's a case of confidence going too far (and often mixed with alcohol, either with him or her or both).
After this blog opened my eyes to online game – and I got to consistent results almost immediately – I’ve noticed how much better it is to always be safe to know that the girl isn’t intoxicated, the frame is clear, the actual process is clear and not obscured by music / sounds / sensations other than from me, so she knows exactly what she’s “buying”. Another advantage to online game!Of course I agree! 🙂 I get emails from a lot of young guys terrified of getting a false rape accusation, and almost to a T, they are night game guys, even if just college party guys. I've never seen an online guy or daygame guy worried about FRA, and I've literally never seen a FRA attached to online dating or daygame. (I'm sure it's probably happened; I've just never seen it.)
Neil 2016-12-29 16:57:02
One of the issues is that most PUA instructors feel they need to be seen to be 'walking the walk' in videos & blogs, in order to drive clients to their business. This has lead to videos getting more explicit as you get viewers running the old 'Oh yeah, but it looks staged & anyway getting numbers doesn't mean anything'- line. Uncalibrated guys see footage of pua's pulling girls from clubs, to their room & want those results straight away, which leads to potential disaster as they don't have the understanding of how women will say no but mean yes or say no but mean NO! I was coaching in Japan with a lot of decent guys, at around the time Julian Blanc showed his infamous strangulation video that he shot in Tokyo. Luckily I was teaching daygame so there was no real issues but some guys who did nightgame suddenly got a lot of local J-dudes trying to start fights in clubs as they didn't want 'Gaijin rapists touching our women'.
evilwhitemalempire 2016-12-29 18:14:42
Comment deleted for violation of Rule Number One.
civilization gets raped 2016-12-29 19:22:02
Many things were said in the post and comments, and many were left unsaid, and it's easy to know how we agree on much of both. To remain on topic... I think logic would want your next post on this blog be, well... on your plans to leave the USA. And maybe, like you did about prenuptial agreements and all protective measures to be taken before signing oneself into marriage (for those who can't resist the social pressure), you'll write a guide (maybe a book) to help people who want to move out of this country, since it's obviously not an easy thing. You know what's scary? That we can't leave what was America to move to a new America. America is just gone, kind of like that woman we all (well, at least all of us "pussies") were with, were left by who will for all life be our #1. When she left us, we all (at least the "pussies") went on wondering "how it could be", "how it could be", over and over for a long time. An explanation would give some relief, but usually there's none (well, it was that way before biology progressed, and we knew there's a sort of 3-year expiration date imprinted on every love). Curious to know where you'll head to when leaving, by the way. And yes, I feel very sorry for those who won't be able to leave, and for their children who'll grow here.
Leon 2016-12-29 20:18:10
Props for anyone who can link the LAY REPORT used as court's proof! No idea about Efficient Pickup. I believe, however, that an instructor should know better and be able to distinguish between what is rape-accusable and what's not, let alone bragging about it as a field report on a public forum. This whole scandal and "self-investigation" sound like it might get set up by some feminists as false rape accusation. Just my opinion.
Blackdragon 2016-12-29 21:47:22
I think logic would want your next post on this blog be, well… on your plans to leave the USA.I'm writing regular blog posts regarding that over at the CJ Blog. Here are the first few installments: http://calebjonesblog.com/moving-out-of-the-country-part-1/ http://calebjonesblog.com/moving-out-of-the-country-part-2-where-to-go/ http://calebjonesblog.com/moving-out-of-the-country-part-3-getting-a-second-passport/ http://calebjonesblog.com/moving-out-of-the-country-part-four-poor-vs-prosperous-countries/ http://calebjonesblog.com/moving-out-of-the-country-part-5-where-to-put-your-money/
And maybe, like you did about prenuptial agreements and all protective measures to be taken before signing oneself into marriage (for those who can’t resist the social pressure), you’ll write a guide (maybe a book) to help people who want to move out of this country, since it’s obviously not an easy thing.I can't really write an entire book on the subject until I actually do it. Once I actually get done moving, and situating my business and investments internationally (i.e. outside the US), then yeah, I will probably do that. I'm a few years away from that though.
Curious to know where you’ll head to when leaving, by the way.Read the second article linked above for my thought process. At the moment, the most likely places look to be Argentina or New Zealand, though that's subject to change. Note that I'm doing Five Flags, meaning these will be the countries I reside in (country A), not hold any money in (country D), nor have a business or pay taxes in (country C), nor become a citizen of (country B), because I don't want the country I reside in to have that kind of power over me (taxes, laws that affect their citizens, etc). Go subscribe over at my other blog, since I will continue with detailed updates and explanations about all this.
And yes, I feel very sorry for those who won’t be able to leaveAny man, at any income level, can leave the Western world within 5-15 years if he really wants to and decides to put in the time and research like I am. If you really want to leave, there is no excuse not to, other than laziness or fear.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet 2016-12-29 22:31:55
Props for anyone who can link the LAY REPORT used as court’s proof!https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3111246/Jason-Berlin-BlogPost.txt Also, under date 10/12/2013: Reader discretion is advised.
Tug Speedman 2016-12-30 00:41:15
@wolfofgeorgestreet Jesus Christ I've never felt so dirty reading something in my entire life. These guys are true scumbags I can already see the guys in prison...."so, I hear you like trains..."
Johnny doe 2016-12-30 01:38:34
When I was around 22, I got really drunk while around a girl who I was in a relationship with and fucked her. She never drank or did anything drug-related, but on this one occasion, I told her I was going to get drunk then fuck her, and she said no problem. Maybe because I was the only one drunk, but for whatever reason, I didn't enjoy it that one time (not her fault in anyway, a gorgeous woman), and afterwards, never really cared for drunk sex. And unlike most people, drinking does not make me more horny. I have once or twice in my lifetime had girls come to my place from a bar, but I made out with just one of them after we left. The whole idea of trying to get a girl drunk and in bed just felt so unappealing. If I wasn't so overly concerned about making sure a girl feels safe and I'm not 'trying anything', I probably would have had a good amount drunk hookups throughout my lifetime. Granted, I don't get laid or date on the level like BD or some of the posters here, but when I kiss a girl at a bar that I have never met, for the most part, its always stone cold sober, and I never bought her a drink, or maybe one drink max, and I pride myself on it. And my first kiss and first lay was stone cold sober, that is a really, really awesome feeling, I still remember it to this day. I feel like if a girl was to be touchy feely with me, kiss me, or shake her booty at me when she is drunk, that is what is causing an interaction to happen, not the girl herself. I always got paranoid of the idea of sleeping with a really drunk girl. What if I end up really liking her and she doesn't give a shit because she was drunk? What if she accuses me of rape because she regrets it the next morning? These PUA guys are effin ridiculous. How do you even get turned on when you KNOW the girl is about to pass out? It's insane. And they are pathetic. I always thought if you can get a girl in bed, 100% sober, or kiss a girl that you just met 100% sober, that is real, authentic game, and you can't fake that shit. Living in a major city too, I have seen many guys get girls back to their place because its right down the street from the bar. I've done it successfully too (but not got laid out of it). I always thought if a guy can get a girl to leave a bar and drive 20-ish minutes to his place to fuck, and she isn't drunk, that is some real game right there. They should make a new website, the sober pick up.
Gil Galad 2016-12-30 02:55:35
New Zealand@BD: Maybe I missed it in the articles, but is this new on the list ? I thought your highest candidates were mostly in South America (Uruguay, Argentina...) plus Hong Kong, Singapore etc. How good is New Zealand ? I assume the climate must be mediterranean-equiv, but I don't know much of the economy and job opportunities (and chicks). Sorry for the off-topic, I'm just following the tangent in the previous comments.
Rick Axis 2016-12-30 03:06:10
When "game knowledge" gets in the hands of psychopaths, this is what happens. It's like giving dynamite to a psychopath. I've always refused to teach guys like this anything. Like in the movie Hitch where he refuses to coach one guy. But when it's all out in the open on forums and youtube video's, everyone can get there hands on it. That includes the wrong type of people let's say. Never been drunk in my entire life and I probably never will (control freak) and all the women in my life that I have "gamed" always where sober. If they aren't, you can't really call it game like JD states. Fully agree on that. I only did some NG in my early twenties, but I always hated it. Not my thing. But the women where usually hitting on me, go figure. Online game (have been doing that now on and off for over 13 years) and daygame is where it's at (natural, relaxed, James Marshall style. Authentic and masculine, NO gimmicky stuff whatsoever and 100% outcome independent as BD teaches. Many guys would be surprised to see what happens if you just connect to your masculine core and operate from there. You don't need any of the gimmicky shit, palm reading, etc.). This blog (and Tomassi's, but once you know the groundworks you really don't need to visit it anymore) are the only good ones out there IMO. There should be more guys like this. One of the reasons I'm considering adding my own thing to it all, which will be more about living a location independent (digital nomad) lifestyle, which is one of my two missions in life. But I have to think about it some more with these crazy kinda things happening... but I think it's worse in the US (but I might be wrong). Glad to see the comment section over here is filled with cool people. Silver lining.
Anon. 2016-12-30 09:14:53
"Eventually I stick it in; bitch makes me wear a condom; I tear holes in it so it breaks" -- from another report This man is certainly not above fucking an unconscious girl. Also, BD, the article you linked to does not in fact contain any definition of the term "sexual assault".
Blackdragon 2016-12-30 11:30:12
Sorry for the off-topic, I’m just following the tangent in the previous comments.Yep, too off-topic. I don't mind occasionally answering one off-topic comment, but I don't get into off-topic conversation threads. That's a topic for my other blog.
Also, BD, the article you linked to does not in fact contain any definition of the term “sexual assault”.Yes it does. Read it again. Just because it doesn't literally say "The definition of sexual assault is..." it still defines it. It's forcing an unwilling woman to do something sexual outside of a sexual context.
Anubis 2016-12-31 14:43:56
BD, Going a bit off-topic here. May I suggest a couple addendums to your post: 5 ways to avoid false rape accusations? 6. Don't ever have sex with a woman who is mad at you or engaged in some sort of serious conflict with you (even as far as on the other side of a serious business deal). The reason being, in their often emotional ways they will cry "rape" to get back at you or otherwise get an upper hand in the situation. The #1 likely occurrence being if they are, or know they will be going through a break-up with you - triply so for guys getting divorced. There's enough other pussy out there - you can afford to pass it up if there's hostility behind it. 7. Consider making some sort of recording, maybe even just of your first time, or other electronic proof that it was consensual. Maybe a cheap nanny-cam running 24/7 in your bedroom that you can forget about. Just revealing that to her when she starts telling you how she's going to cry rape often can shut them down. In some states it's illegal to record audio or phone calls, in others it's ok - but even video with no sound the shows her getting freaky and into it is enough to disprove lies. It's cheap insurance. The sad truth is (and I know this first hand from my own divorce) is that there are almost no consequences for a woman to make a FRA, even if it goes to the police and is proven unfounded. Often times they just want to poison you socially or force you to do what they want, or just to hurt you (as if that somehow makes their problems all better).
Jack Outside the Box 2016-12-31 18:56:12
As a matter of fact, If you think carefully, even SJW would have to admit guys like you are fighting the good fight.No, they wouldn't. I think you're insufficiently aware of just how broadly SJWs define rape. Most SJWs these days believe that all heterosexual intercourse is rape, unless it is first prefaced with autistic verbal procedures that would make even the biggest social retard blush. Then there are SJWs like Lacy Greene who believe that Hollywood celebrities should be legally required to be virgins, or fuck only other celebrities, because a woman sleeping with a famous man is supposedly doing it because she's "star struck," thus leading to "rape via social status imbalance" and "emotional overpowerment via fame." And of course let's not forget the radical feminists who believe that literally all sex is rape because "power differences between men and women in a patriarchal civilization make women not politically strong enough to consent." And that's not even mentioning the dykes who think that all straight sex is intrinsically traumatic and violent, regardless of societal conditions. SJWs are insane. All normal men are rapists under their definition.
If a man who is clueless about women wants to get laid and happens to find a technique that teaches him to do it the right way (one that’s not violent or illegal AND respects women at the same time), he will most likely be nauseated by the dark side alternatives, like any normal human being should.But SJWs believe that even wanting to get laid at all, and taking steps to achieve that goal, means you are a misogynist who needs to "check his entitlement."
Problem is the noise is so loud these definitions are completely lost,That's the point.
and a guy like BD, who only teaches men to have sex with complying women using simple seduction techniques must come forward and apologize for….nothing. Shame.According to SJWs, he must apologize for being a man with sexual desires. And for wanting to fuck women without employing autistic verbal procedures first.
This rape culture produced scary side-effects:There is no such thing as rape culture. Please stop using the language of our declared enemies!
1) actual rape is not being taken so seriously anymore (if everything shocks, nothing shocks);Exactly. We can't take it seriously if it is defined as broadly as they define it. There are even SJWs who believe that if a woman was hesitant, or had even the slightest anxiety about her decision to say yes, it was rape, because consensual sex must be given with zero anxiety and full confidence. This, of course, ignores how human beings make decisions about anything. Under their theory, buying a drink due to seeing a commercial for it and then regretting buying it later means the store is guilty of theft. Or giving money to a homeless man in frustration due to him pestering you means you were robbed. The truth is we're not gods. This means we will have some anxieties about our choices, and even second guess them from time to time (even after the fact). This doesn't mean we can avoid personal responsibility for our choices just because our mental conditions weren't perfect when making them. SJWs want utopia and perfection, which is why they keep whining about rape culture. These pampered snowflakes need to be forced into the real world.
2) fan-fic is very profitable and (unfortunately) we have to be careful about what we believe from women on the media, especially on the internet;Correct.
3) it’s getting really hard to identify real rapists…the definition became so broad that regular sex/male desire and rape are being mixed into a very confusing thing;This is by design. All male heterosexuality must be defined as rape, according to SJWs.
Jack Outside the Box 2016-12-31 19:22:23
@BD: Unless there is something going on with you that I don't know, I disagree with you having to humiliate yourself like this. Saying that you're against rape and sexual assault is like saying you're against pedophilia or genocide. It's degrading and humiliating to even implicitly concede that there is even a question that needs answering about whether or not you're against these things. Thus, it is insulting to even have to make a blog post like this. You say your lawyer told you to do it? For what purpose? What is the specific negative consequence of refusing to post this that you wished to avoid by posting it? As you have never advocated rape or anything illegal, your blog can't be legally shut down, nor can you be arrested. So....did you make this post in order to avoid social sanctions from SJWs? You do realize that you're a rapist according to them just by taking steps to get laid, right (see my response above to POB)? Were you trying to avoid legal trouble or social trouble? If legal trouble, what have you ever said that was rapey, or that might mislead anyone into thinking you support or condone rape, or illegal behavior? If social trouble, that is a fool's errand, since sex-negative prudes will always accuse you of illegal and sick things just because they don't like you. Pandering to them like this only causes them to smell blood and try to dig deeper, as you have revealed yourself to be on the defensive. I don't think you should have posted this article. It's humiliating, insulting, and degrading to you.
I’ve even had to remove the links section from my sidebar because of this crap.Seriously? Jesus! What am I missing? Are SJWs putting pressure on WordPress to censor PUA material?
Joe K 2017-01-01 15:11:39
There has ALWAYS - and I mean ALWAYS - been an undercurrent from the beginning of the PUA online stuff 15 years ago (and this includes the absolute beginner level shit like 'David DeAngelo') of the idea that, essentially: "Once you buy my/our products, and really learn the material, you'll get to the level that I/we are at - where you can literally make out with a new woman without ever saying a word to her". So...this is sexual assault, or nah? Is/was teaching it wise? This was straight off of 'David Ds' Advanced Dating Techniques program, which was the first major product he launched after his book. It was repeated ad nauseum by every PUA outfit I can think of. I cannot think of a single one that did not advocate 'getting to a level where you can just look at a woman and make out with her on the spot, without a single word'. BTW - I've been in LTRs where we'd both had 6-7 drinks and then the woman doesn't remember the following day that we had sex the night before. Granted, we'd had sex probably 50 times before and I was also drinking quite a bit. But I remembered fucking her and she didn't remember. All I remembered was she was horny, speaking coherently, and ripping my clothes off before I proceed to pound her. Is that sexual assault? See, once you go down this road...
James 2017-01-01 16:40:06
"Few men get hardcore oneitis like an experienced PUA. I’ve seen it happen many, many times." I think they rely on woman for happiness so they put in all that effort with some expectation of woman bringing them a satisfaction that is unrealisitc.
Blackdragon 2017-01-01 18:11:29
Saying that you’re against rape and sexual assault is like saying you’re against pedophilia or genocideCorrect. This is the society we live in now; that we actually have to be on record as saying this obvious shit.
It’s degrading and humiliating to even implicitly concede that there is even a question that needs answering about whether or not you’re against these things. Thus, it is insulting to even have to make a blog post like this.Stop with the exaggerations dude. You are the only one here who feels insulted or degraded. As I always say to you, take a chill pill and calm down.
What is the specific negative consequence of refusing to post this that you wished to avoid by posting it?If, down the road, another PUA/manosphere guy actually commits or recommends real rape, to show to the uninformed but non-insane people that I'm not a part of that crowd or thought process. As you already said, the truly insane people, like the radical feminists or extreme SJWs, will simply ignore this post and think I'm automatically pro-rape because I'm a man talking about sex. There's no convincing these psychos; that's not who this post was aimed at.
So….did you make this post in order to avoid social sanctions from SJWs?No. On the contrary, I would love it if hordes of SJWs "sanctioned" me. I would make serious money from such an event. Sometimes I even fantasize about someone really famous publicly attacking me for some anti-woman thing I never said, giving me overnight nationwide exposure. I've calculated that I would make at least $850,000 within a 72 hour period if this ever happened.
You do realize that you’re a rapist according to them just by taking steps to get laid, right (see my response above to POB)?Correct. Don't care. Read my statement above about not being able to convince insane people of anything. I'm only posting here to inform the non-insane people who don't have the full story if such a story "breaks."
Were you trying to avoid legal trouble or social trouble?Legal "hassle," not necessarily legal trouble. Again, I would welcome social trouble.
If legal trouble, what have you ever said that was rapey, or that might mislead anyone into thinking you support or condone rape, or illegal behavior?Nothing, as you already correctly pointed out. Instead what happens is some jerkward PUA / manosphere guy does something truly inappropriate, and I get erroneously lumped in with "those rapist PUA guys" or "those racist alt-right manosphere guys who hate women," since I have a blog that teaches dating and relationship advice for men, and communicate in a very blunt, arrogant tone. This has already happened to me several times (sadly the people involved weren't famous enough). If it's just in the social realm, I not only don't care, but that would be great. If it gets into the legal realm, then that could be a problem, hence this post.
Seriously? Jesus! What am I missing? Are SJWs putting pressure on WordPress to censor PUA material?No. I purposely removed the links for my own legal protection and to minimize the type of drama that I can't monetize. I'm not going into more specifics. I'm doing what is the most safe for me. And yeah, it's a pain in the ass I have to take these kinds of precautions.
There has ALWAYS – and I mean ALWAYS – been an undercurrent from the beginning of the PUA online stuff 15 years ago (and this includes the absolute beginner level shit like ‘David DeAngelo’) of the idea that, essentially: “Once you buy my/our products, and really learn the material, you’ll get to the level that I/we are at – where you can literally make out with a new woman without ever saying a word to her”.That's an overstatement. A more accurate message from commercial PUA guys was "You can get any woman you want!!!" which of course is bullshit, as I said years ago here.
I’ve been in LTRs where we’d both had 6-7 drinks and then the woman doesn’t remember the following day that we had sex the night before. Granted, we’d had sex probably 50 times before and I was also drinking quite a bit. But I remembered fucking her and she didn’t remember. All I remembered was she was horny, speaking coherently, and ripping my clothes off before I proceed to pound her. Is that sexual assault?Most people have had that experience, particularly young people. My opinion: if you're already in a long-term relationship with a woman, where you're both having sex regularly and she's loving it, if she clearly knows you're going to fuck her if/when she gets really drunk, and gets really drunk with you anyway and sex occurs, I can't see how that is rape. Most women I have talked to about this agree with this opinion (including Pink Firefly). Women know their boyfriends are going to fuck them if they get really drunk with them are are usually quite happy with it. Now if, for some strange reason, she ever said to you, "Don't ever fuck me when I'm drunk," or if you said "When you drunk tonight, I'm going to fuck you," and she responded, "No don't fuck me tonight when I get drunk," and then you did anyway, that would be rape/sexual assault, or at least a grey area.
I think they rely on woman for happiness so they put in all that effort with some expectation of woman bringing them a satisfaction that is unrealisitc.Agree. Many hardcore PUAs suffer from the same problem that many MGTOWs do, in that their entire view of the world is woman-centric.
Joe K 2017-01-01 18:37:13
@BD - No, not an overstatement - you're factually incorrect on that one point. I am being very specific, because it's true. They were selling the idea of being 'so good with women' that you could walk up to a new woman and make out with her, without saying one word. That, in fact, was being 'sold'. And that may be marginal sexual assault according to your definition in your linked 2013 piece defining that for you. That's my point.
JB 2017-01-01 22:32:19
@Joe K In my experience, you clearly can walk up to a lot of women and make out with them without ever saying a word, to their enjoyment as well as yours. It's about calibration and really noticing invitations. I could do it with only a year of gaming experience or so. So for that exact part, they are absolutely correct. It's not sexual assault if she invites it and reciprocates it. But as I stated in the above post, if you're a little drunk yourself or miscalibrated her interest due to other things, you may end up in a "questionable" situation, where you clearly don't want to be.
POB 2017-01-02 06:35:04
@Jack I agree with all your points. I'm also not that naive man, please. Believe me, I do understand how their twisted heads work, so I know for sure there's no "rape culture" shit or something like a "rational SJW" in the real world. But knowing is different than refusing to use common contemporary language.
These pampered snowflakes need to be forced into the real world.Not by me. I'm too busy having sex with a bunch of hot women and pursuing my mission.
Blackdragon 2017-01-02 19:58:14
No, not an overstatement – you’re factually incorrect on that one point. I am being very specific, because it’s true. They were selling the idea of being ‘so good with women’ that you could walk up to a new woman and make out with her, without saying one word.I know some were, but I don't remember it being the overall PUA thing you're saying it was. But let's agree to disagree; it's not very relevant here.
prepped 2017-01-03 16:19:44
I had to disavow Roosh et. al. a couple of months ago, long before I heard about this PUA here. I've branded the old-guard PUA community the BOY-O-SPHERE -- a rag-tag band of boys who are just now discovering realities of life us older, mature and accomplished men have know for decades. Having led one of his tribal gatherings in the past, I have good insight into the young men who follow the PUA/mansophere tripe and continue to employ the dated pickup techniques long know by early adopters. Unfortunately, the scene has changed, the narrative has advanced. Men trying to "game" women the way Mystery and Style did in the beginning are not only seeing diminishing returns on their investment in game, but are not maturing as men because they are following the advice of kids rather than seeking the sage wisdom of older men who've not only succeeded at game, but also other areas of life -- marriage, family, career, wealth, etc. I find from own interaction with the young men I now counsel that the game/PUA mentality actually stuns their development and actually hurts their opportunities and seducing and bedding the very women they're trying to hard to game. I see them making rookie mistakes as they feebly employ the tactics of PUA rather than develop the truly attractive quality women seek -- what many game bloggers now refer to as "inner game." I'm not surprised that men trying to pick up women using such aggressive techniques as night-game sarging in alcohol filled venues results in disaster.
Blackdragon 2017-01-03 16:38:06
I’ve branded the old-guard PUA community the BOY-O-SPHERE — a rag-tag band of boys who are just now discovering realities of life us older, mature and accomplished men have know for decades.You're exactly right, and that's a good way of stating it. Most manosphere content is written by ex-PUAs in their early to mid 30s who are suddenly discovering the stuff us older guys have known for a very long time. I agree with the rest of your comment too. Well said.
Mike Hunter 2017-01-07 07:48:22
I love black dragons stuff. But "Jack Outside the Box" hit the nail on the head. In any case carry on and have a great 2017.
TomR 2017-02-25 04:49:02
Since it's a post about legal issues - did anyone notice that the "against the will" and "with no consent" are two very different concept. Especially as far as who does the definition. Will is something defined by biology, it reasonably fixed, although for a legal system it may be difficult to determine what it was at a precise moment in time. Consent is a legal term, thus defined by the legislator, thus it can change at the will of the legislators. For example it is possible, or even realistic to define a law in which being married results in consent. In the the more extreme case - that a consent can be given by a third party: a judge, a government official, parents (as in arragned marriages). Such possibilities are a consequence of giving a legal system a control over a definition. Or a new definition of consent in which it is enforced by the government: if you gave consent once better fulfill it or pay a fine, or even go to jail. Which is an interesting: either there is a concept of a Final Decision that is enforceable (as in normal contracts), after which changing one's mind is not supported by the law, and thus someone is going to be forced or thretened for sex after such final decison, or there is no concept of a Final Decision - in this case the system victimizes the second party, who arranges his time to accomodate what promised sex, rejects other opportunities for this time, not necessarily sexual, perhaps even financial, but in the end gets nothing. It's unusual for a legal system to tolerate empty promises, efectively deception in a sense. A potential compromise - paying some compensation for withdawing sex after a positive decision - is too troublesome for poor people. Another source of confusion about this issue is that when talking about it, analyzing it people mix all the levels, instead of separating them. Military divides issues into levels: strategic, tactical, operational, contingency. Consider female romance novels: typically they describe an ideal man, who is a fulfillment of protagonist's will, yet at lower levels he doesn't respect the protagonist's will that much. And such novels are extremaly popular among women. In a real world it may even be a source of internal confusion, having a potential sex partner, that is good at one level, but bad at another. May be a source of decision changing in time, or this post-sex feeling violeted syndrome, even if a pre-sex decision was positive. If on the other hand one requires that all levels of will are fullfilled, then there would be not much sex. And while on lower levels men and women are well compatible with each other sexually, then at the strategic level there's more conflict of interests. One of the not-yet-addressed issues in this area is what I'd call phermonal assault. Everyone can minimize or avoid emitting phermones by frequent washing oneself. Some people do opposite - spray themselves with phermonal perfumes. Getting exposed to phermones can have a detrimental effect in the form of distractability, difficulty to focus, lower efficiency if exposed at work. Maybe even longevity? http://www.zmescience.com/science/biology/opposite-sex-affects-life-expectancy-043432/ Basically animal biology is not good as far as the wellbeing of an individual is concerned. It also doesn't fit the interests of modern society. Craving unhelathy foods, too much sexual drive/frustration compared to the resulting number of offspring. The most damning factor would be if the programmed aging theory turns out to be correct, an inbuild timebomb in genes, that finishes an individual off. On a societal level - makig a person a sunk cost in medicine and retirement payments, rather than recouping investment in his upbrinking and education until the end of his life. And it doesn't look like we have good, working traditional approaches against such pitfalls of biology.