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Moving Out of the Country – My Current Five Flags Plan as of January 2017
Today, I’ll give you where I currently stand as to which countries I’m going to choose for my five flags model when I move out of the country in or around 2025. To be clear, this is only my current, rough draft plan. Everything you’re about to read is subject to change if/when I uncover more information or if conditions in the US or around the world change. This plan is not set in stone yet, is a constantly changing and updating thing, and likely it will remain so for the next few years.
-By Caleb Jones
To quickly review the five flags model that I described here, I’m looking at four or five different countries to provide these functions:
Country A - Where I will live, a place that doesn’t tax non-citizen residents.
Country B - Where I will get my second passport, to supplement (or even replace) my current American passport.
Country C - Where I will base my legal business structure(s), a place that has zero or low corporate taxes for non-citizens.
Country D - Where I will have my investments, a place with low or zero taxes on investment income to non-citizens. I will have multiple Country D’s for diversification reasons.
Country E - Where I buy most of my stuff beyond groceries and other basics (things like electronics, clothing, etc), a place with low or zero sales tax or VAT taxes for non-citizens.
The objective of having these five countries is:
1. Taxes; to pay the absolute minimum legal amount of tax. Because I have an Alpha Male 2.0 business structure, I already pay a very low tax rate for someone at my income level. I pay well less than 20% in total taxes, legally, despite having a six figure income.
Regardless, this is still way too high. I work way to hard to pay one-fifth of my income to a corrupt, warmongering, corporatist government run by people like Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, who mostly take my money and give it to millionaire bankers, poor people who don’t want to work, or use it to bomb innocent civilians in the Middle East. Uh yeah, no thanks.
My goal is to get my total annual tax down to 4% or less, and do so legally. I’m going to try to get it to 0%, since I personally know international nomads who legally pay 0% tax, but I won’t necessarily be a nomad, since at my age (mid-40s) I desire an actual home base (Country A). Therefore, I’ll go for 0%, but if I end up with 4% or less, I will consider that a win.
2. Security; to be protected against any one country doing something stupid, suddenly changing their laws, hitting a huge recession, or collapsing. I sure as hell don’t want to attach my long-term future to the collapsing USA, suicidal Europe, or any other individual country or region. Via five flags, I’m spreading my risk across multiple countries, all over the world. Adding this to an already existing Alpha 2.0 business and financial structure, I will be, quite literally, one of the most secure people on planet Earth when I’m all done. I will be protected even if any one country or region encounters a major problem or changes in some way.
3. Freedom and fun. With multiple passports and flags all over the world, I’ll be able to travel with much more ease, both by taking advantage of more business opportunities, and for fun. My Current Choices of Countries Here are my current choices for the country functions listed above. Again, this list is subject to change, and only represents my current thinking and research at this point. For more details on my thought processes about where to live or not to live and why, read this.
Country A - Where I will live: It’s currently a tie between Argentina and New Zealand, with Chile as a third option if those two don’t pan out. I will be spending significant time in both Auckland and Buenos Aries in 2018 in order to get a feel for both areas.
Both Argentina and New Zealand are located far away from the collapsing West, their cost of living is lower than in the US, and their climates are tolerable. Argentina is extremely inexpensive and a very cool place, making it super attractive. New Zealand isn’t nearly as cheap or as fun as Argentina, and in some cases is even more expensive than the US, which is a problem. However, it’s populated by English speakers and is much closer to Asia, which is where most of the money and business opportunities will be over the next 100 years.
Country B - My second passport: It’s currently a tie between Argentina, New Zealand and Comoros. Both Argentina and New Zealand require you to live in their countries for five years before getting citizenship, which is fine, since they're both under consideration for my Country A.
The other option is Comoros, a tiny African island nation that essentially sells passports to anyone who wants them. The passport isn’t very good in terms of offering visa-free travel, which means that if I used my Comorosan passport to go to the US (for example), I’d actually need a visa to do so. Not a big deal, but it would be a hassle.
On the flip side, the passport is 100% legal and valid. Comoros will give me one for just $45,000, without me ever having to live there, put any money in there, have any kind of interview, or ever pay taxes there. Nice. $45,000 is a lot of money, but it’s within my means, and it would save me from living in Argentina for 5+ years. I would also try to find a way to make money off the fact that I have a Comorosan passport and/or the fact that I would have to possibly visit Comoros, to help offset that cost.
I looked into getting a passport from Italy, because it looks like I’m eligible for one due to my Italian heritage. The problem is that, based on many stories from other people who have done this, the process of getting your Italian citizenship is absolutely horrible, stressful, difficult, frustrating, and takes many years. Screw that. Both Argentina and Comoros would be easier.
Country C - Where to base my business: This is a tough one. I have not yet narrowed down the options to just two or three. There are so many different variables that this will be the most complicated decision I’ll have to make. I’m currently looking at many countries, including Montenegro, the UAE, Bahrain, Macedonia, Hong Kong, Georgia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Estonia, Bulgaria, and maybe even Ireland. I have no idea which one of these I will choose. Yet.
You might be asking why I might choose a European country for Country C when I think Europe is going to collapse. Remember that I’m not going store any money in these countries (other than maybe $1000 for day-to-day operations). I’m just going to base my legal business structure there. If the country collapses or changes their laws, no prob. I’ll have a backup business already set up in another country that I’ll just shift to. Worst case scenario, it would be a hassle for about a month as I switched things over, and then I’d be fine.
Country D - Where I will have my investments: This one is easy. It will be (and to a degree already is) Singapore, Australia, and a few other places. Singapore and Australia are both comparatively safe, solid countries as compared to the chaos of the rest of the world, and they’re both in or close to Asia, which is exactly where I want my money to be. Post 2025, I will also own international real estate in a few other places, but haven’t decided on where yet.
Country E - Where I will buy my stuff: As for my groceries and basic stuff, I’ll buy these in my Country A. For electronics only, I will use Singapore, which is perhaps the cheapest place in the world to buy that kind of thing. For everything else (clothing, toys, etc), I will use my home state of Oregon in the United States, since there is no sales or VAT tax of any kind there. I may have to pay shipping costs sometimes, but I’ll evaluate that on a purchase-by-purchase basis. I have lots of friends and family there who can help me with logistics, and of course I will be visiting there often.
That’s it so far. An example of where I might end up when I’m all done would be living in New Zealand, with a US and Argentinian passport, with my business based in Georgia, and have investments in Singapore, Australia, and various other places. My income is already location independent so that part is covered. Can’t wait!
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RT 2017-01-09 06:30:32
Argentina and NZ have CFC rules and tax residents on worldwide income, doesn't seem like a good choice for country A. Am I missing something?
Makeshift 2017-01-09 06:47:41
Sorry if you've talked about this before, but I haven't been able to find any posts where you explain why you want to move out of the country. You said before that you don't think we're going down the civil war and balkanization path, and it seems to me that if that's the case even a collapsing U.S. would be a better place to live than most.
Leo 2017-01-09 07:04:14
Hong Kong is a good country if you make money online. Nick tells more here: https://boldanddetermined.com/hong-kong-business-guide/ However, I don't understand that little Muslim country. Paying 45K for a country which has no benefits... too much. Maybe you think you don't need VISA free travel, you already have US passport.
TK 2017-01-09 09:25:55
Awesome to read more on this topic Caleb. Regarding Argentina- when did the requirements for Argentina's passport raise to 5 years? Everything I've read (mostly Simon Black and Andrew Henderson) say 2 years for Argentina, as you mentioned in an early post in this series. Did this change, and/or where are are you getting that info? Would you share links?
Caleb Jones 2017-01-09 12:18:27
Argentina and NZ have CFC rules and tax residents on worldwide income, doesn’t seem like a good choice for country A. Am I missing something?That only applies to citizens. I will not be a citizen of Country A, only of Country B, where I will not live. That's the entire point, to live somewhere yet not be subject to its stupid tax laws.
Sorry if you’ve talked about this before, but I haven’t been able to find any posts where you explain why you want to move out of the country.http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2012/08/26/why-im-moving-out-of-the-country-in-a-few-years/
Hong Kong is a good country if you make money online.Agree a thousand percent. Hong Kong is both my favorite country and favorite city in the world.
Paying 45K for a country which has no benefits… too muchThe benefit is a second passport.
Maybe you think you don’t need VISA free travelI don't *need* it, but I agree not having it would be a huge hassle sometimes.
you already have US passportYes, but down the road I want at least the option of being able to renounce my US citizenship if things get really bad in the US. I can't do that if I only have one (US) passport.
Regarding Argentina- when did the requirements for Argentina’s passport raise to 5 years? Everything I’ve read (mostly Simon Black and Andrew Henderson) say 2 years for Argentina, as you mentioned in an early post in this series. Did this change, and/or where are are you getting that info?Yes, this Argentina thing is very confusing. When guys like Black and Henderson (I love both of them BTW) say "two years" they mean you are granted permanent residency within two years in Argentina, not citizenship. I don't give a shit about residency; I just want that passport. There have been cases were Argentina has naturalized non-citizens in much sooner than five years, but I don't think it's a guaranteed thing you can plan on. Thus, I'm planning on five years if I go that route. If it only takes two or three years instead, then great. Link here: http://www.argentinaresidency.com/services/argentina-citizenship-passports.htm Again, this five flags stuff is pretty complicated and there's a shitload of misinformation and mis-interpreted information out there. I don't like it any more than you do.
RT 2017-01-09 22:05:22
I am familiar with these topics, follow Nomad Capitalist and read Harry Browne etc. Taxation is based on tax residency, i.e. you are a tax resident there if you spend 183 days or more in the country, even if your citizenship is different. You can have a Monaco passport but if you live in NZ you will pay tax to NZ on your local and worldwide income. For your plan Country A needs to have territorial taxation, meaning you are tax resident in Country A (since you spend >183 days there), they only tax your local income, and you can have tax free income abroad if you incorporate the business in a tax haven. Examples of good country A would be countries with territorial taxation/without CFC rules, e.g. UK non-dom scheme, Gibraltar, Paraguay, HK, SG, etc NZ and Argentina are not in that group
RT 2017-01-09 22:07:20
http://www.ird.govt.nz/international/residency/personal/personal-tax-residency-index.html -If you are a New Zealand tax resident you are taxed on your "worldwide income" - that is income from New Zealand as well as from other countries. -If you've been in New Zealand for more than 183 days in any 12-month period, you're considered to be a New Zealand tax resident from the first of these 183 days.
RT 2017-01-09 22:27:02
Portugal also has a similar scheme to the UK where they don't tax foreign income. You could actually live in the UK, claim non-dom status for 6 years free of charge (https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/non-domiciled-residents) and thus only pay tax on money you bring to the UK, while keeping other money tax-free somewhere abroad. After 6 years you can get the UK citizenship (which allows dual nationality so you can have other passports too), and then leave the UK and live somewhere else while having a good (British) passport. UK taxes on a residence basis (unlike the US), so if you move out of the UK you will no longer need to pay tax to the UK, even if you have UK citizenship. Also I 'm curious why your choices for country C are not tax havens? Most of these countries have corporate tax.
RT 2017-01-09 22:32:19
A lot of Americans are confused by this, since the US has citizenship based taxation. Meaning US passport-holders pay tax to the US even if they live abroad, which is a hassle for expats. The US and Eritrea are the only 2 countries in the world with citizenship-based taxation. Other countries tax based on residence (183 day rule), not based on citizenship.
RT 2017-01-09 22:43:35
Final thought: since you're a US citizen, as long as you have that US passport, you will need to pay tax to Uncle Sam no matter where you live or where your business is located (though you can get an exemption for the first 100K under the FEIE). So might be worth getting a different passport and renouncing citizenship as soon as you leave the US.
Caleb Jones 2017-01-09 23:41:27
Taxation is based on tax residency, i.e. you are a tax resident there if you spend 183 days or more in the country, even if your citizenship is different.That is not a global law; it varies per country. Plus there's the issue of local taxation, as you said. I will not be earning any income from any sources within Country A.
For your plan Country A needs to have territorial taxation, meaning you are tax resident in Country A (since you spend >183 days there), they only tax your local income, and you can have tax free income abroad if you incorporate the business in a tax havenCorrect.
Examples of good country A would be countries with territorial taxation/without CFC rules, e.g. UK non-dom scheme, Gibraltar, Paraguay, HK, SG, etc. NZ and Argentina are not in that groupAgain, that is not relevant if I don't make any income originating in NZ or Argentina (unless you know something I don't).
-If you are a New Zealand tax resident you are taxed on your “worldwide income” – that is income from New Zealand as well as from other countries. -If you’ve been in New Zealand for more than 183 days in any 12-month period, you’re considered to be a New Zealand tax resident from the first of these 183 days.Ah, now that's new information to me. Thank you. In the same page you linked to, it says there is a foreign tax credit credit for any foreign taxes paid, but that's not going to be very much money. The next item I'll have to research is exactly what kind of tax rate NZ wants to hit me with, based on my income and the fact 100% of it will be foreign. It says I'm subject to tax, but not how much. If I end up paying something like 2-4% in total NZ tax, that's okay with me (assuming I pay no corporate tax of course). Anything beyond that will be a dealbreaker though.
You could actually live in the UK, claim non-dom status for 6 years free of chargeYeah I've known about the UK thing forever. I've known guys who live 6 months of the year in the UK and 6 months of the year in Canada and pay literally zero tax. Anyway, none of that UK or Portugal stuff helps me because I will absolutely not live in Europe, for the many reasons I've already stated at this blog. You couldn't pay me to live in Europe, at least not for the long-term.
Also I ‘m curious why your choices for country C are not tax havens?Some are, some aren't, and I also based it on ease of setting up a business and closing down a business. Feel free to add to, or delete from, my list. As I as I said above, I haven't done a lot of research on Country C yet.
since you’re a US citizen, as long as you have that US passport, you will need to pay tax to Uncle Sam no matter where you live or where your business is located (though you can get an exemption for the first 100K under the FEIE). So might be worth getting a different passport and renouncing citizenship as soon as you leave the US.I know all that. It's one of the many reasons I'm going to need that second passport. I'm not planning on renouncing my US citizenship but I want the option to do so, since A) my income goes up every year, B) I plan on all tax rates in the US to increase, and C) as the US moves further left over the next few decades, they're going to do their best to go after expats to squeeze more money from them. There's also the $104,000 a year exemption on federal taxes from foreign income, which is something I guess. The problem is any income beyond that is taxed at the full rate. You also have to pay social security / medicare taxes on the full amount, which really sucks. So yeah, as an American, being from one of the worst countries in the world in terms of tax law, I must have that second passport for this to work long-term.
RT 2017-01-10 01:28:23
You should read up on CFC rules and citizenship vs residential vs territorial taxation systems. Here are some links http://nomadcapitalist.com/2016/06/13/countries-territorial-tax-system/ https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/Tax/dttl-tax-cfc-regimes-essentials-271113.pdf - at the bottom there is a list of countries that don't have CFC rules at the time of that document. Usually no CFC rules means territorial taxation, i.e. good for country A - they only tax local income. 1) Everything is pointless if you still have a US passport - you will pay full tax to US on income/dividends no matter where you live (except for that first 100K), also you might also pay corporate tax to US even if business is incorporated in a tax haven (not sure about corporate tax if you are a US citizen but tax resident in another country without CFC rules). That is the point of CFC rules which most developed countries have, it eliminates the incentive for people to form offshore business. Briefly, if a country has Controlled Foreign Company (CFC) rules, it means its tax residents (183 day rule in most countries) will pay corporate tax to that country even if their business is incorporated in a 0% corporate tax Carribean island. So your first problem is getting a different citizenship and renouncing US citizenship. 2) If you're not earning an income in Country A, it may be difficult to obtain a long-term visa/permanent residence permit to stay in country A for many years. Staying as a tourist and doing visa border runs every 1-3 months can get tiring and you may get caught. Maybe it depends on the country, but e.g. HK or Singapore would never give you a long term visa if you are not planning to have any income there. /* The next item I’ll have to research is exactly what kind of tax rate NZ wants to hit me with, based on my income and the fact 100% of it will be foreign. It says I’m subject to tax, but not how much. If I end up paying something like 2-4% in total NZ tax, that’s okay with me (assuming I pay no corporate tax of course). Anything beyond that will be a dealbreaker though. */ NZ, like most developed countries, would hit you with both corporate tax (even if business is incorporated offshore in tax haven; CFC rules) and also dividend tax when you bring dividends to NZ. http://www.ird.govt.nz/international/nzwithos/investments/overseas-investments-index.html#shares
RT 2017-01-10 03:04:05
Actually China could also be good for country A: There is a special rule for foreigners living in China under which foreigners are only taxed on their Chinese sourced (aka local) income. I am pretty sure that means you would not have to pay profits tax for offshore business (i.e. CFC rules would not apply) and dividends tax if you distribute profits (as it is foreign income). China would tax your local income ONLY AS LONG AS you take a 31-day vacation every 5 years 🙂 More here: understanding-five-year-tax-rule-foreigners-do-you-need-tax-holiday-2016 Of course to live in China you would need to obtain a residence permit to stay there for a long time (maybe you could create some kind of local business or get someone to hire you)
RT 2017-01-10 03:04:41
Link here: https://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/2016/01/06/understanding-five-year-tax-rule-foreigners-do-you-need-tax-holiday-2016
prepped 2017-01-10 10:06:08
I've been working on this problem for years, actually having incorporated and formed businesses in other countries to minimize US tax liability. At the end of the day, the only sensible solution for an American citizen is to gain another citizenship/passport and renounce/relinquish the US citizenship. And that's getting more difficult to do every year as Uncle Sam is desperately trying to keep taxpayers locked into paying US taxes. To do otherwise gets you the stink-eye of gubermetn and other Americans as some kind of criminal tax evader. Even with the FEIE, you're on the hook paying SE tax and still getting hit with confiscatory estate taxes as well as a plethora of new, the unknown taxes required to maintain the debt service on over $20 Trillion dollars of debt, not to mention the tens of Trillions of unfunded liabilities. I haven't of Cameroon. Dominica and St. Kitts/Nevis were the only economic programs on my radar. Yeah, $45K is a big chuck of change, but a relative bargain compared to the former.
Caleb Jones 2017-01-10 12:52:27
Here are some linksVery cool! I'll take a look.
Everything is pointless if you still have a US passportThat's an overstatement, but I agree having that US passport is a real problem, and that renouncing my citizenship is probably likely at some point in my long-term future.
Maybe it depends on the country, but e.g. HK or Singapore would never give you a long term visa if you are not planning to have any income there.Yep, correct. I already looked into that, and that's why I reluctantly had to take HK (and Singapore) off my list for Country A.
Actually China could also be good for country A:Yes, it's still on my possible list. The air quality is my big concern though.
I’ve been working on this problem for years, actually having incorporated and formed businesses in other countries to minimize US tax liability. At the end of the day, the only sensible solution for an American citizen is to gain another citizenship/passport and renounce/relinquish the US citizenship. And that’s getting more difficult to do every year as Uncle Sam is desperately trying to keep taxpayers locked into paying US taxes. To do otherwise gets you the stink-eye of gubermetn and other Americans as some kind of criminal tax evader.Yep. Every year all of this is going to get harder and harder as the US gets nearer to collapse. That's why I'm getting the ball rolling now. Pain in the ass.
I haven’t of Cameroon.Comoros.
Dominica and St. Kitts/Nevis were the only economic programs on my radar. Yeah, $45K is a big chuck of change, but a relative bargain compared to the former.Yeah, after Comoros those are the next least expensive, but they're $250,000 - $500,000(!). Fuck that. Several countries in Europe also offer economic citizenship, but those run several million euros.
Caleb Jones 2017-01-10 12:58:34
Another option I originally considered was to do the six month / six month thing. Have two homes, and live six months in each. That would solve a lot of these issues. I decided that doing something like that would be too expensive and too much hassle, so I scrapped it. But that was a few years ago, and I make more money now, so if, after the bulk of my research, having a single Country A is just too complicated, I may have to look at the six month thing and choose two Country A's instead of one.
RT 2017-01-10 14:12:01
Dominica passport costs 100K donation + maybe 20-30K misc fees, so 120-130K total. There were talks about raising the price but it has been delayed as far as I know. Dominican passport offers very similar visa free travel to St Kitts and Nevis, including Europe, though for both you need visa to go to the US. Actually spending 130K on a passport might save you money since you could immediately pay essentially no taxes (if you live in country A which only taxes local income and have business abroad in a tax haven). If you still have US passport with the same arrangement, you would pay normal tax to Uncle Sam. Depending on your income, the new passport should pay for itself in tax savings in a few years.
Caleb Jones 2017-01-10 15:10:28
Actually spending 130K on a passport might save you money since you could immediately pay essentially no taxes.Assuming the country of Dominica is a recognized charity by the US government, that is. (Maybe it is; I don't know.)
LionKing 2017-01-10 16:43:50
Great article, as always CJ! Just one small thing, not very important in the grand scheme of five flags and peanuts compared to other costs/taxes, but what about import duties in country A for goods bought in country E? I checked for NZ: You need to pay the customs duty (if rate > 0%; depends on type of goods) + 15% GST tax ( on cost of goods + shipping + duty) + cost of procedure (seems to be fixed at 50 NZD). Examples are here: http://www.customs.govt.nz/features/charges/fees/Pages/default.aspx The "clothing" example has total duties of 50% (on top of shipping fee), so the stuff you buy needs to be >50% cheaper... Argentina seems to be way worse... searching reveals many horror stories about parcels stuck at customs for 6 months, 50+% import tax, bureaucracy, bribes,... http://postandparcel.info/59698/news/regulation/argentina-imposes-tight-restrictions-on-cross-border-e-commerce/ https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g312741-i979-k6106343-Shipping_to_Argentina-Buenos_Aires_Capital_Federal_District.html http://baexpats.org/topic/32944-package-stuck-at-customslost-help/
RT 2017-01-11 00:12:45
They call it donation, basically you just give 100K to Dominican government for the passport. Re taxes I mean that once you get Dominican passport and renounce US passport, you can immediately move to country A and pay no coporate/income taxes, thus the tax saving
Z 2017-01-11 01:18:43
Hi Caleb, Really enjoyed your book "The Unchained Man - The Alpha Male 2.0". This book was among my top reads in 2016! Will you visit Shanghai again in your 17' China trip? I would recommend you Estonia to consider for setting LLC. One guy I know has ALPHA 2.0 biz and runs it happily through Estonia. All the best Caleb!
Rick A 2017-01-11 05:55:05
GREAT article! I'm applying for an e-residency in Estonia for my offshore online business and an LTD in the UK for my publishing company (I'm from Holland) and thinking about transferring my Dutch Business account to the new Estonian one. What do you think, a good idea? I already have my 2 passports, so I got lucky in that one. Took me about 6 months to get the second one, my father is originally from another country so all I had to do is go to the embassy and apply for it. Both won't be my country A, so I'm good. I'm planning on visiting Buenos Aires (country A) in November 2019 when I'm turning 40 and live there for 6 months, go back to Europe (having fun in Budapest) for 6 months and do it over again for 6 months. After 2x 6 months I will decide if I'll make it my permanent stay. From my research I understand that I will need a lawyer ($1000,-) to get everything setup for me, living there without becoming a resident. The theft thing I hear about is a big minus, curious how bad it is by then. I'm looking forward to your experience of the city.
Rick A 2017-01-11 06:55:21
*I meant living there without becoming a citizen.
Caleb Jones 2017-01-11 12:50:44
Just one small thing, not very important in the grand scheme of five flags and peanuts compared to other costs/taxes, but what about import duties in country A for goods bought in country E?That's not as strong factor for me, since I live a minimalist lifestyle and rarely buy anything. Once I have my new home furnished (with furniture I'll probably purchase in Country A), I just need a laptop, a few computer screens, and I'm good to go, probably for the rest of my life. The vast majority of my fun money is spent on events and travel, not things. But yeah, if you're the kind of guy who likes to buy a lot of toys, then yes, you need to research import duties for your potential Country A.
Re taxes I mean that once you get Dominican passport and renounce US passport, you can immediately move to country A and pay no coporate/income taxes, thus the tax savingThat depends on how much money you pay in taxes. I already pay a low tax rate so it would take me many years for a $130K passport to pay for itself. But I get your overall point.
Will you visit Shanghai again in your 17′ China trip?Yep! That's exactly where I'm going. Shanghai is my second favorite city in the world. Going to do some coaching and consulting there. Maybe a seminar too.
I would recommend you Estonia to consider for setting LLC.It all depends on their corporate tax as compared to other tax havens!
I’m applying for an e-residency in Estonia for my offshore online business and an LTD in the UK for my publishing company (I’m from Holland) and thinking about transferring my Dutch Business account to the new Estonian one. What do you think, a good idea?Moving the biz would probably be a good idea, but then you can't live in Estonia if you want to follow five flags.
From my research I understand that I will need a lawyer ($1000,-) to get everything setup for me, living there without becoming a resident.Yes. It's safe to assume several thousand dollars in legal fees to set up permanent residency anywhere, particularly if you're an American or European. Just put it in the long-term moving budget.
Z 2017-01-11 21:09:50
@Caleb I live in Shanghai. If I can help you in anything, please feel free to ask. Would be awesome to meet you here!
Caleb Jones 2017-01-12 17:20:51
I'll be posting about my coaching and seminar schedule in Shanghai over at the BD blog soon. 🙂
Rick A 2017-01-14 00:44:37
I can't imagine anyone would want to live in Estonia (or Europe around that time). I'm pretty sure I'll be living in Buenos Aires. I'll have to do some more research regarding the pros/cons of registering my biz in Estonia or Bulgaria. So many options...
Caleb Jones 2017-01-14 12:09:31
I can’t imagine anyone would want to live in Estonia (or Europe around that time).Guys looking to bang hot eastern European chicks. As I've said, if you're a reasonably young guy with little or no money and you want to live in E. Europe for a few years to get laid and have fun, then go ahead. But permanently living there for the rest of your life? Insane.
Rick A 2017-01-16 01:33:20
I do that and I don't live there, a few weeks tops. And what does being young and no money has to do with it? I know plenty of guys +35, myself included, who live like that. Including well known guys like Tom Torero. So... But we all think way outside of the box.
Caleb Jones 2017-01-17 14:10:48
Young, because once you clock over age 35, most men start looking to settle down (with or without a woman). But there are many exceptions to this, sure. No money, because you don't want any long-term money in Europe, Eastern or otherwise. If you have no money, that's not an issue. If you have assets, you'll have the overhead of living in Europe but keeping the assets out, which is work.
RT 2017-01-18 07:27:46
Look into Shenzhen for China, it's a booming city 20 miles away from HK, air quality is much better due to geography, so is the climate. Shenzhen is like Silicon Valley of China, and one of 2 cities with stock exchange (other is Shanghai). Shenzhen's property market is booming too, plenty of articles on google.
Shura 2017-01-19 04:54:24
What about healthcare? Where does it enter the plan? Thanks
Caleb Jones 2017-01-19 10:18:51
Healthcare is a factor in deciding Country A, however for big procedures that can be scheduled in advance, I will probably go to the US, Singapore or one of the westernized clinics in SE Asia.
TK 2017-01-20 12:01:46
Speaking of healthcare- any worries regarding availability of TRT in another country? Is availability relatively the same? Also what about health insurance, will you have to buy new health insurance in Country A?
Caleb Jones 2017-01-20 13:40:59
any worries regarding availability of TRT in another country?No. If it isn't, I'll continue my TRT program through my American doctor. The vials are very small and last 6 months, so I can just stock up whenever I visit the USA.
Is availability relatively the same?It varies. In some countries, it's illegal. In others, you can buy it without a prescription. That's my understanding at least. I'm not concerned about it.
Also what about health insurance, will you have to buy new health insurance in Country A?I might. I'll cross that bridge when I get closer to narrowing down my definite candidates for Country A. Worse case I'll have to dual insure, with standard health insurance in Country A and catastrophic insurance in the USA.
mike 2017-01-26 05:49:55
I'm sure you looked into this but question regarding Country B. Let's say you like NZ for your A, so then you would plan to live in Argentina for 5 years. Question - why not get passport in Panama as country B. You can do it in less time AND (most importantly) you dont even have to spend more than a few weeks a year in country. It's a good passport too. You can save yourself 5 years.
Caleb Jones 2017-01-26 10:26:37
Let’s say you like NZ for your A, so then you would plan to live in Argentina for 5 years. Question – why not get passport in Panama as country BMostly because it's too hot. Secondly because I would spend the time in Argentina to learn the country for possible Country C or D options. But yeah Panama is pretty good overall.
TK 2017-02-08 12:53:15
In regards to the 2 or 5 year thing regarding Argentina-- Have you seen this, Caleb? This woman waited the full 5 years and then found out she was eligible after 2. http://www.fourflagsjournal.com/the-truth-about-getting-citizenship-in-argentina/ This, combined with all Simon Black and Andrew Henderson's materials (and most other info I can find on the web) leads me to wonder if perhaps the organization whose link you posted might be incorrect, or looking to profit off expats for 3 more years worth of lawyers fees?
Caleb Jones 2017-02-08 14:03:18
Yes, information on this stuff conflicts, all over the place. As always, I base my plans on what is most probable, not what is most favorable. Maybe it would work in two years, but it might not. I can't plan on the best case scenario.
TK 2017-02-08 14:13:07
Gotcha. Cool, thanks Caleb!