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Stop With the Excuses!
-By Caleb Jones
Prepare to have your comfort zone pulled out from under you. And STOP WITH THE EXCUSES.
Excuse 1: I can’t get laid because I’m too ugly.
As I talked about here, it is my experience that the vast majority of men who self-identify as “ugly” are not ugly at all. Many of them are better-looking than me. In that above linked article, I told men who thought they were ugly to email me pictures of themselves for some objective feedback, from me, as to weather or not they were actually ugly. Many men sent me pics, and not one guy was actually "ugly." Some were average-looking, but none were ugly.
I can thus tell you for a fact that if you think you’re ugly and you don’t have some kind of physical deformity or major weight problem, it’s far more likely a false, internal, self-esteem issue and not a reflection of reality.
If you actually have some sort of physical deformity on your face, save up whatever money you need to and get it resolved via cosmetic surgery. If you're fat, lose weight.
Excuse 2: I can’t get laid because I’m too short.
Neil Strauss was 5’6” and got laid like a rock star far before he ever became famous. Being short is never an excuse. Get some shoe lifts from Amazon. Get some elevator shoes right here. You can easily add 1-5 inches to your height using these methods. Then screen for women who are your new height or shorter. No problem.
Excuse 3: I can’t get laid because I’m overweight.
I was almost 250 pounds of fat (I’m about 5’10” - 5’11” while barefoot) during the years in which I was having the most sex with the most women (2009-2011), including super hot women, including 18 year-olds, within 3-4 hours meet-to-sex, without paying them any money. I was chubby as fuck, and I still got laid. It's true that I had to put in much more numbers than the typical guy, and my margin for error was much lower than it would have been for a skinny or ripped guy, but I still got laid and still got results. You didn’t see me moping around complaining that I was “too chubby therefore girls won’t like me.” I was too busy getting laid.
Excuse 4: I can’t get laid because I’m too bald / have thinning hair / have a bald spot.
Shave your entire head. Or, spend a little money and get the surgery or the nonsurgical hair restoration procedure. I did the nonsurgical several years ago and I love it. I talk about it in detail here, with pictures.
Excuse 5: I can’t get laid with hot girls because I’m too old. If you’re in your 50’s, the only way to fuck younger women is to pay for it.
I personally know eight different men over the age of 50 who get laid with women in their 20’s (or even younger) without paying for sex. Granted, two of them are wealthy, but the other six have normal incomes for men in their 50’s. All eight of these men take care of themselves physically and make sure they look decent. If you’re fat, lose weight. If you’re bald, address it. If you act like a needy old man beta, work on your inner game. Being in your 50’s is not a death sentence. I’ll be in my 50’s in just five years, and I plan on having a great time in my 50’s. And I will. Just watch.
Excuse 6: I can’t get laid with hot girls because I’m too old; I’m over 60.
You can still get laid; you’re just going to have to pay for it, which should not be a big deal financially since you’re over 60. (You should have plenty of money by age 60, and if you don’t, you have much bigger problems than getting laid.)
Excuse 7: White girls hate Indian guys.
Incorrect. The accurate statement is A) some white women aren’t attracted to Indian guys and B) no white women are attracted to nerdy, needy, oneitisy, Indian guys with skewed perceptions of dating, women, and sex. (In other words, Indian guys like you.)
Indian men are programmed with the worst anti-sex Societal Programming of all the races. If this is you, get some therapy and/or some coaching, clean up your inner game a bit, and then focus on women. And yes, your hit rates with white women will be less than a white man of equal skill. Doesn’t matter. My online dating response rates are often around 2% or less and I still get laid plenty. I personally know Indian guys who bang a never-ending stream of cute white girls. I can be done. Read this for more information.
Excuse 8: White girls hate black guys.
Not black guys who dial down the energy levels and overbearing “Daym gurl you fiiiiiine!” shit, and who snap up the way they dress. Calm, well-dressed black men are literally the only guys who have ever out-gamed white girls from me. Calm down and dress better, and you’ll do just fine. Read this for more information.
Not Asian guys who lift weights and don’t act like spazoids or nerds. Read this for more information.
Excuse 10: You can’t fuck girls in my country unless you’re monogamous.
Are you going to bet me $10,000 that I can’t find three men in your country who are getting laid without being monogamous? Pleas
e let me know. I could use another $10,000. If you truly live in a very oppressive society, like Saudi Arabia or something, then you know what my advice is: MOVE. If you can’t move right now, that’s okay. Make plans to move out of your oppressive country within a few years so you can actually be a man.
Excuse 11: It’s super hard to get laid in my city. Women here are bitches.
Excuse 12: All the girls in my city are ugly.
If you live in a very small town, then you might be right. MOVE to a bigger city.
If you live in a normal sized Western city (or larger), then you’re full of shit. Read this.
Excuse 13: My town is too small. They’re aren’t enough women here for any degree of consistent sexual variety.
If the population of your town is under about 200,000 people or so, then you might be right. Guess what you need to do? MOVE. You must move to a bigger city if your woman life is important to you.
If you can’t move right now, that’s okay. Make plans to move out of your small town within a few years so you can actually be a man. The worst-case scenario is that you may have to drive for a few hours to your nearest big city to get laid until you can move.
Excuse 14: I can’t move. I can’t afford it.
Yes you can. I’ve dated very young, poor FB’s who moved across the United States for less than $1200. They saved up the money (anyone can save up $1200 no matter how poor, given enough time), packed all their crap into their little shitty car, and drove. It can be done if you want it bad enough.
I’ve heard the stupid “I can’t move” excuse from tons of men over the years, and not once have I heard a scenario where it was true.
Are you going to bet me $10,000 that I can’t find three men in your city who are getting laid without getting into a traditional relationship first? Please let me know. I could use another $10,000.
It’s true that certain cities in certain countries have the difficulty bar raised because more women there desire traditional relationships before sex. That doesn’t mean that A) you can’t get laid or B) you can’t move to a different city. Just realize that you’re going to have to up your game and put in more numbers than a guy in a typical city. And fucking MOVE to a different city if this is a problem.
and I look like .
Are you going to bet me $10,000 that I can’t find three men in your city who are getting laid without looking like
? Please let me know. I could use another $10,000.
Refer to excuses 11, 12, and 13 above for more details on this bullshit excuse.
Excuse 17: Getting laid takes too much work.
If you are a hardcore Thrill of the Hunt man and only want one night stands and notch counts, then yes, getting laid is going to be a hell of a lot of work; I can't help you if that's the case. However, if one night stands and/or notch counts aren't your priority (they have never been mine), then going about your dating life in a systematic way is very little work once you get the hang of it. Throughout most of the last several years, I would only do online dating blitz’s once or twice a year. Each blitz would last about two to three weeks. That’s two to six weeks of “work” per year. The rest of the year I have easy, relaxing sex with recurring FB’s and MLTR’s. It's great.
Does that sound like “too much work?”
If you are age 25 or older, then I’m sorry you pussy, but you can’t use this as an excuse anymore. I see people in their late 20’s, 30’s, 40’s and even sometimes 50’s whining and complaining that their life sucks because of what their parents did when they were kids.
BULLSHIT! Everything in your life is your fault. Your life is what you make of it. If what happened with your parents is still affecting you in your 30’s, that’s because you’re choosing to make this a fucking excuse. There are tons of other people your age who had the same problems as a child you did (or worse!) who live perfectly happy lives regardless.
Seeing grown men whine about how they can’t get laid or can’t lose weight or can’t get a job or whatever because their parents were assholes 20 years ago is pathetic beyond belief and makes me ashamed that I'm the same gender as you. A little hard work and perhaps some therapy can get that problem fixed (or at least greatly alleviated) if you choose to put in the time instead of whining like a little bitch.
Excuse 19: My parents put me on a bunch of drugs as a child (ritalin, etc).
See excuse number 18 above.
Excuse 20: I’m a virgin. It’s hard to make the moves on women I like.
That’s correct; it’s extremely difficult for virgins to sexually escalate on women. (I had the same problem when I was a virgin.)
Hire a hooker or a sugar baby (from a sugar daddy website) and have sex with her about three times. Once you get this done, you’ll find that it’s suddenly way easier to escalate on women.
If paying for sex turns you off, then another option to lose your virginity fast is to “go beta” for a little bit, and ask one of your close female friends (even if she’s ugly) to have sex with you.
The point is, if you're a virgin, forget about the PUA /pickup stuff for the moment and just have sex with someone. Once you do this, getting laid will be far easier.
Excuse 21: Not everyone can go around fucking a bunch of women or having nonmonogamous relationships.
1. I’m not talking to everyone, nor do I expect everyone to follow my advice. I’m just talking to you as an individual. Everyone can’t get laid a lot, but YOU can. Read argument number 5 here.
2. I never said “fuck a bunch of women.” I don’t. Read this.
Excuse 22: I might get a false rape accusation!
Not if you do this correctly. Read this.
Excuse 23: I don’t want to get a STD.
You won't if you do this stuff correctly. I've had sex with a very large number of women and I'm clean. Read item number 2 right here.
Excuse 24: I can’t have sex with girls because I live at home with my parents.
Teenage boys in high school who live at home with their parents have been getting laid just fine for decades. There are also lots of young guys in the PUA community who live at home with parents and who get laid just fine. So why is this a problem for you and not them? Because they’re not being lazy and making excuses, that’s why. Just do what these guys do:
1. Have sex at friend’s houses.
2. Have sex in your car. (Ideally, get or borrow a pickup truck or a van.)
3. Have sex in your friend’s car(s).
4. If you’re 18 or older, coordinate with your parents and have them get out of the house 1-2 evenings a week so you can have the place to yourself.
Etc. It's not that complicated. If idiot teenagers can figure this out, you can.
Excuse 25: I can’t have sex with girls because I’m unemployed and/or don’t make a lot of money. Only guys with money get laid.
Wrong. Read about the unemployed homeless guy who was banging chicks left and right here. I’ve known tons of poor guys who live on friend’s couches and who still get laid, and with hot girls.
WTF? What are you? Eight years old? Read item 16 here. And you really need to read my book.
Excuse 27: Women are bitches today, not like they were in the 1950’s, so it’s not worth it.
This is a problem for society, but it's not relevant to you as an individual in any way whatsoever. Read item number 1 here.
Excuse 28: I can’t get laid because I don’t have a car.
Mass transit. Subways. Buses. Trains. Uber. Lyft. Friends. Family. Taxis. Stop with the fucking excuses.
Excuse 29: Sex isn’t that important.
Not according to doctors. Read this.
Excuse 30: I can't get laid because I'm extremely shy / introverted.
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John 2017-04-24 05:24:48
Hi Black Dragon, good subject, but i wanted to ask another question. How much money do you put aside each month? Is it like 10% from your earnings? Or if not % then how much should one man put aside nowadays? It depends of course how much one earns, but is it like 300, 500, 1000?
AL 2017-04-24 05:43:36
God Almighty! 🙂 That's a long list. I'd never really thought about it like that. Do you really get complaints about life like this sent to you?
joelsuf 2017-04-24 05:56:43
LMAO this has to be one of the funniest (probably the intentional kind) posts from BD ever.
If what happened with your parents is still affecting you in your 30’s, that’s because you’re choosing to make this a fucking excuse.Yeah, I'm realizing this more and more. I had a shitty childhood and endured three really traumatic events during my high school years (so bad to where halfway into senior year I was obsessing about ending my own life because I thought that my "time was up"), but after 25 or so, you are in the drivers seat no matter what has happened to you. I will say if you have been a recipient of traumatic events then its your job to address them before 25. I made the mistake of not doing this and it cost me a good decade of progress.
if you’re a virgin, forget about the PUA /pickup stuff for the moment and just have sex with someone.Another piece of very legit advice. I remember going to a bunch of strip clubs when I was a virgin, just to prove to myself that I won't get a rape charge if I make a move on a chick (which is, let's face it, what many virgins are afraid of). Making moves was way easier after that. But RSD and other PUA "networks" will say that it "doesn't count."
If you are a hardcore Thrill of the Hunt man and only want one night stands and notch counts, then yes, getting laid is going to be a hell of a lot of work; I can’t help you if that’s the case.Good to know BD is addressing this as well. I'm a thrill of the hunt type but I also like that I have to grind out each one night stand that I earn. To me its fun, like playing a video game and trying to beat it as fast as possible. I just don't care for being in a relationship with anyone unless they are an FB. I would even argue that accumulating FBs is a function of luck.
Eddie 2017-04-24 07:08:12
Brilliant article and one that's well needed in today's climate of fear and confusion. No one seems to have the balls to tell people the truth these days. It seems like we're living in a climate of denial and delusions... that truth and facts don't matter anymore. Men, in particular, are in a sad state of reality...they behave worse than women. For, women have the luxury of bitchin' and complainin' because they have a vagina and some simp or Gov't program will come along and save them. But, men... we are supposed to be men and not whiny little bitches. Have you ever noticed that winners never make excuses, only losers. Sadly, over the last few years, I've had to distance myself from some of the guys I've known for this very reason. My thing now is whenever I encounter someone and he's constantly bitchin' and complainin', I instantly began to distance myself because I know I'm dealing with someone who can't win in life because he has a loser-mentality. Awesome post, BD... an article like this separate the men from the boys, the winners from the losers.
Blackdragon 2017-04-24 10:34:32
How much money do you put aside each month? Is it like 10% from your earnings?40%. My goal is to get it to 60%, but I'm probably a lot older than you and I have an aggressive net worth goal.
Or if not % then how much should one man put aside nowadays?As I've said before, that answer depends on many factors, including your age, lifestyle, whether or not you have or want kids, and a few other things. 10% is a minimum, but you need to pay off all debts first.
That’s a long list. I’d never really thought about it like that. Do you really get complaints about life like this sent to you?Yes. And just about all of those objections have been in comments from commenters on this very blog.
Have you ever noticed that winners never make excuses, only losers.Yep. I talked about that here.
Blackdragonette lol 2017-04-24 11:01:44
Any advice for dating and navigating through life as a "blackdragonette." I'm 28 with 2 smalls girls (ages 2 and 4) very very self-aware. I've dealt with my childhood trauma, daddy issues, etc. in the midst of ditching my needy ass alpha male after 9 years. I've been reading your blog for a while now, can't say that I've disagreed with anything you've said this far, Im actually intrigued by your no bullshit approach to everything. Help me. I consider myself a personal 10 and estimated 10 (explains why I'm with a needy alpha). I just need guidance because I don't want to be monogamous ever again but I've never attempted that particular lifestyle. I need to be prepared for when I'm fully single. And I apologize for posting this on an unrelated post but TEACH ME PLEASE!!
POB 2017-04-24 12:14:55
About the short dudes, I personally know a guy that's 5'4" (1,64m) who at the time we met was scoring 1-2 new chicks per month (and I know for a fact it was true). BTW, those girls were not monsters - in fact it was quite the opposite because I too would fuck most of them!
Duke 2017-04-24 14:51:58
Any advice for dating and navigating through life as a “blackdragonette.”Did you read these already? https://blackdragonblog.com/2013/05/12/fun-with-theory-what-if-blackdragon-had-been-born-a-woman/ https://blackdragonblog.com/2013/09/19/fun-with-theory-blackdragonette-revisited/
Blackdragonette lol 2017-04-24 15:29:05
Yes I did..I feel like I'm a mix of the 2..probably the worst gold digger ever (I don't like to ask for anything, never been my style). But I just know that I can't love one man forever. However, im super affectionate, super emotional (not to be confused with the typical dramatic female) probably get stuck doing the MLTR until I'm older and burnt out. Would I have to date only men who get the concept of nonmonogamous relationships? Most of the men I come across ALWAYS want more. You have it outlined perfectly for males..with this information, I could be one hot ass lesbian lol (zero interest in that by the way)
Jocko 2017-04-24 16:04:23
LOL @ the one about living with your parents. I moved back home to pay for a personal training course and in the last year I more than doubled my notch count. A big part of that can be attributed to following BD's dating method I'm a pretty normal sex drive kind of guy, so I even got to the point where I was having too much sex and was annoyed because I could've been studying or something. Guys need to learn that if a girl is into you, she'll basically be DTF anywhere. I've had sex in a park, in broad daylight, on the first date and with no alcohol involved. And aside from living with my parents, I work a shitty job. Yet I've not just banged high status lawyer and management girls driving luxury cars, they've wanted relationships with me Oh yeah, I also live in Australia, where according to most PUA/mano sphere sites there are no attractive women/too much feminism/women are bitches/night life sucks/women only like footy players. All are bullshit
The New Yorker 2017-04-24 16:16:38
Any suggestions for sources on daygame, night game and social circle game BD?
Mayrick Dubois 2017-04-24 16:24:10
BD, good list of excuses. There are a few things I have noticed over the years in regards to the list items. There are some women who are not attracted to short men, however, I think it is rare. Height is not a big deal if she is attracted to you. As far as ugly, I am surprised that so many men would think they are ugly. I agree that they probably are not ugly at all and it is a self esteem issue. If you really feel bad about yourself then make improvements. Most women are attracted by more then just looks and many things add up to make a man attractive. As for older men, many men ages 40 all the way through 60's are extremely sexy and hot. They are confident, smart, funny and mature. I have met many men in that age range who would fall in that category. They have a certain attractiveness that younger men just don't have. If they take care of themselves and keep themselves up, they should have no trouble getting women for free. Blaming your bad childhood is pathetic. Most people have had a less then perfect childhood. Get over it and get on with your life! Once your an adult, you are in charge of your life, not your parents. That attitude comes across as weak and is a big turn off for women. There are white women who are interested in different races and ethnic groups of men. It is about how you present yourself that attracts women.
Freddy 2017-04-24 18:10:02
Need some advice. Basically met a hot chick at a patio and things escalated quickly. She wanted to go to the car so we did. Got some heavy make out and petting going before I cut it off. She contacted me next day and we met again and banged. A few days later we banged again along with doing a lot of other stuff. Basically after this she/we were getting very serious. I panicked a little and told her my wife and I were getting back together and that she should stay away from my work. Without getting into too much detail I really handled the situation in a NOT so mature manner. For a few weeks she hung around the area where we originally met and seemed to be hoping things could start up again. She seemed shook up by the whole thing and finally decided to re-commit with her boyfriend who was saving money for a ring. She told me we can't have sex anymore. Of course the boyfriend relationship did not last as she just went back to him for security. I wanted to start going out with her again but the problem for me was that I started beta texting her with no real polarizing. She still responds to my texts but plays games when I ask her out. She will not commit to getting together. She is younger so I don't know if that may play into the situation. Anyway what would you suggest to get her back into a rotation. It has been about 4-5 months since we first met?
Timpleton 2017-04-24 21:27:54
I dunno, I'm living in Shanghai now and considering relocating to the US to open a business. I do very well here and I would say that probably, the MAJORITY of relationships these days for couples under the age of 30 are started online. That's just a total guess but it's very very standard. Chinese just aren't natural socializers. I also don't have any particular fetish for Chinese women before anyone suggests that... Anticipating the move, I have been scouting the online dating profiles of women on all the major dating sites that you talk about in your books, and doing searches in many of the largest cities in the US. I have to say, although I know of course there are plenty of attractive women in those cities, it seems not many have online profiles. I can't imagine how you run "hundreds" of openers in your online blitzes, because from what I can see you're looking at way less than 100 attractive women in the 18-23 age range in a given city, and perhaps 200 at most if you bump that up to 18-29, and you are willing to lower your standards. Seems the huge percentage are overweight and extremely unattractive, I dont' see a lot of "normal" women there, and vanishingly few hot ones. This is worrisome because I don't anticipate I'll have a schedule that allows for daygame much in the next couple years and as far as I can see, that's the only way to hope to avoid the "no hot women" excuse... Anyway good looks are totally relative to each guy so perhaps that excuse has some merit.
Blackdragon 2017-04-24 22:06:35
Any advice for dating and navigating through life as a “blackdragonette.”www.girls-with-game.com
Guys need to learn that if a girl is into you, she’ll basically be DTF anywhere. I’ve had sex in a park, in broad daylight, on the first date and with no alcohol involved.Yep. Exactly. (And I have too.)
Oh yeah, I also live in Australia, where according to most PUA/mano sphere sites there are no attractive women/too much feminism/women are bitches/night life sucks/women only like footy players. All are bullshitYep.
Any suggestions for sources on daygame, night game and social circle game BD?Daygame: Tom Torero, Good Looking Loser, Krauser PUA, Night game: I don't know. RSD maybe? Not my area. (I personally despise night game, though I admit it can work if you work hard at it.) Social circle game: None that I can recommend. I have yet to see someone "systemitize" this like I did with online game, and someone really needs to.
Need some advice.https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/
I can’t imagine how you run “hundreds” of openers in your online blitzesIt's easy. To be clear, most bliztes I do are 120-300 openers, not like 700 or 900.
because from what I can see you’re looking at way less than 100 attractive women in the 18-23 age range in a given cityUh, no. In the 18-23 range there are plenty of hot/cute girls in any city with several million people if you use multiple dating sites/apps (which I always do and always recommend). Otherwise, either you're being unusually picky (and there are men like this) or you live in a small town/city.
Seems the huge percentage are overweight and extremely unattractive, I dont’ see a lot of “normal” women there, and vanishingly few hot ones.That's correct. The vast majority of women on dating sites are fat or ugly. IGNORE THOSE. That doesn't mean you can't find 120-300 cute/hot girls between the ages of 18-23 if you use multiple sites/apps. You can, easily (unless you live in a city with less than 1 million people or so).
Leo 2017-04-25 00:01:24
Thanks for sharing man. These are similar to "I am broke because..." excuses. It would be great to read a new post about excuses of being poor.
K 2017-04-25 02:19:24
Social circle game: None that I can recommend. I have yet to see someone “systemitize” this like I did with online game, and someone really needs to.This guy Distant Light (from RSD) gave it a shot a while back. His method was essentially to cold approach girls anywhere anytime and instead of hitting on them just inviting them to do whatever he was doing that night anyway, so he would roll to events/parties/clubs with 5 girls, and invariably most would end up wanting to hook up with him. Worked especially well for him because his passion was nightlife though, so most young girls were already interested in what he was doing. If your passion is chess and you play tournaments every night this is going to be trickier. For the guy asking I would suggest, based on guys I know personally who can consistently get laid anytime they leave the house: Daygame: Gunwitch Night game: Alek Rolstad (aka Teevster, aka TVA_Oslo)
POB 2017-04-25 05:56:35
Night game: Alek Rolstad (aka Teevster, aka TVA_Oslo)I second that. Teevster has awesome stuff on night game! Plus he knows how to write really well and pass his knowledge.
JEB 2017-04-25 06:30:47
40%. My goal is to get it to 60%, but I’m probably a lot older than you and I have an aggressive net worth goal.While I certainly save up around the same amount of my monthly income, I think this topic is very important. I live in Scandinavia where our pensions is non-touchable and very favorable (e.g. I pay 1/3 myself and my employer pays 2/3 of my monthly pension payments, thus I decline several thousand $ yearly if I say "no" to pension fund payments). In the US and many other countries, I'd agree that investing the money yourself is a better choice. I still save up 40 % of the rest of my income regardless (but not to keep until my pension). I am in a profession that historically has never had any unemployment, have the highest wages among all academics and am in a niche of that profession (robotics) that will ensure me specialist work and wages for the next decades (or the remainder of my lifetime). My question is - Is it really necessary to have a million side-investments and side-savings etc? I already have unemployment insurance that will cover 2 years in case of a crisis. If I don't ever do stupid things such as getting married or making babies, is it really optimal to safe-guard my income more than it is already? (Of course, I'd never take a loan on anything except for perhaps a mortgage on a new house, if even that. I'm not talking the American "spend-money-before-you-have-it" way).
Bulma78 2017-04-25 07:31:41
There are some women who are not attracted to short men, however, I think it is rare. Height is not a big deal if she is attracted to you. As far as ugly, I am surprised that so many men would think they are ugly. I agree that they probably are not ugly at all and it is a self esteem issue. If you really feel bad about yourself then make improvements. Most women are attracted by more then just looks and many things add up to make a man attractive.I agree with some of Mayrick Dubois’s comments. Oh I just love shorter guys! I don’t like having to look way up at a guy. Just so perfect-looking!.......but I don’t agree that many women find shorter guys attractive. I think it is more rare that women like short men; not that I care because I think shorter guys are the very best! Agreed also that part of finding a guy attractive is not just looks but actions too; seeing them in their element. Although I think body is more important than face, so in my opinion, a guy could have a not so great face, but if he has at least a decent body and is on a dirt bike or has some other kind of rugged quality, then I think he’s really hot, so yes, it all adds up.
Chris Stevenson 2017-04-25 07:42:34
Regarding excuse Excuse 15: Women in my city are really traditional and want relationships before they have sex. This excuse is so common in my community due to the overall trad-con nature of the ethnic groups here and the early age of exclusivity in relationships and marriage. All of this quite concentrated in a borough of New York City. This also exists in clusters in the other outer boroughs and suburbs of this metro, but is more cohesive here. This consequently becomes mentally reinforcing in the minds of both sexes and for real and imagined reasons makes playing the field and casual relationships more difficult for some. On that note I will tell you that opportunities are everywhere here as the claimed family values are only a polite social lie and a thick [sic] veil over the reality that so much causal and overt sluttitude occurs here. There is no excuse, even here for not finding FB's and other fun. There is simply more sifting through the community meme which makes hungry men more frustrated, often very frustrated. Once you realize that it is just a female's way of maintaining her social conditioning and veneer of respectability, it no longer affects your attitude and you move her past it. One way which I am not sure is healthy long term is a covert or totally hidden arrangement of which the women here are very skilled. That is the real art around here. You walk into and out of a world that even the few of her neighbors and associates that know is revealed to no one. Cheating like this is rampant around here. I could write a book. Back to the point, you can find them everywhere if you look hard enough and most men do not which leaves the best for you.
JudoJohn 2017-04-25 07:54:38
Damn dude, I'm feeling neglected. You forgot all about those of us who have been with women most of our lives (21 of 23 adult years for me) and are scared to death of getting sucked into Disney mono. Caleb, your most important acronym to me, perhaps beside LSNFTE and MLTR, is EFA. I know you know about my smokeshow of a unicorn (4.5 years with a brilliant girl half my age). That's a massive whole in my life to fill, and jumping back in immediately would have been dangerous. At this point, I just topped out on my first multi pitch climb. I'm joining the swing club (dancing not fucking) along with the swing classes I've been taking. I've kept up on judo, bodyweight fitness, and running. Yeah, it's all physical, but like you said taking care of ourselves is a part time job (of course I keep up on skin care, blah blah blah). What I'm getting at is EFA is impossible if you have no Frame, or of your frame is one of Disney Monogamy. I was ripe for plucking by a Provider Hunter (I was one hell of a Provider to my unicorn). I was smart to be a coward. But that's wearing out fast. One of your most important pieces to me was how to get started with non monogamy....one FB, one MLTR, burn in at fucking 4 times each, and maintain for a while. Time to get to it.
JudoJohn 2017-04-25 08:07:34
Any suggestions for sources on daygame, night game and social circle game BD? Daygame: Tom Torero, Good Looking Loser, Krauser PUA,Good Looking Loser seems legit. Talk to one girl per day. Chat casually for a while and then say "Would you like to join me for a drink tonight" or if at happy hour "Would you like to join me for a nightcap." Expect relatively low success rates because most women are not available. That's fine, the numbers add up. Low key system for busy guys. There's no reason to be a PUA Monkey in the middle of the fucking street.
Putin 2017-04-25 08:30:47
Do not underestimate day game.
JudoJohn 2017-04-25 09:37:06
Do not underestimate day game.I don't. However, there has been many dollars separated from many desperate men in this space. I'm lucky enough to be good looking and in good shape. I get IOI's. I just need to work on the Pavlovian Approach. Three seconds is not very long.
JEB 2017-04-25 11:58:15
What I’m getting at is EFA is impossible if you have no Frame, or of your frame is one of Disney Monogamy. I was ripe for plucking by a Provider Hunter (I was one hell of a Provider to my unicorn). I was smart to be a coward.Don't worry JudoJohn, you'll get there. After your first few nonmono relationships, nobody will expect monogamy from you even though you never verbally say you're nonmonogamous. Also, the threat of Disney becomes lower as you get more and more experienced in the field and with game in general. You'll still have to watch out for oneitis, and it's important to go through the blog posts about it if you ever feel in looooooooooooooooove or think that "this girl is the one!". It's a phase, you get over it, and if you succeded in not becoming a needy pussy during the time of your raging NRE / looooooooooooove, you'll most likely have one of the best (nonmono) relationships of your life. Overcoming oneitis with a woman is one of the most powerful things you will ever feel, and the fact that you later know you didn't succumb to all those urges of being needy / jealous / whatever really makes for a great relationship. I recently experienced this with a beautiful girl who has given me a solid zero instances of drama in our 9 months of dating, and I can guarantee you that the "zero" would have not stayed zero if I had become a beta pussy. My recommendations: If you have the time, start with loads of MLTRs / FBs to really get into that nonmono frame. After you've shown your ego that you can get tons of women, start going for the lower numbers (1 MLTR 1 FB or 1 OLTR 1 FB) by filtering the top girl out from the herd. Makes it a lot easier to get a solid frame, as this is crucial if you are going for the 1-1 model. Having only 1 MLTR or OLTR increases the need for frame control, as you will focus all of your "romantic" sides on this one woman, which could put you into boyfriend territory.
Blackdragon 2017-04-25 12:57:38
These are similar to “I am broke because…” excuses. It would be great to read a new post about excuses of being poor.That might be a good idea, at least for my other blog. I'll think about that. I mostly addressed those here though.
Cheating like this is rampant around here.Cheating is rampant in most conservative "traditional" regions / enclaves / groups. Monogamy doesn't work.
You forgot all about those of us who have been with women most of our lives (21 of 23 adult years for me) and are scared to death of getting sucked into Disney mono.No man gets "sucked into" Disney mono. You choose it. You control your life, and everything in your life is your fault.
Parade 2017-04-25 13:28:44
It’s easy. To be clear, most bliztes I do are 120-300 openers, not like 700 or 900. It takes me about 1,000 messages on OKC to cute chicks to end up with one new lay nowadays. I live in a city where that's reasonable to do, but it's way too time consuming. At the moment I'm doing the 'let them message me and take it from there' approach, but that's because I have a couple options already. Also, I supplement with (free) one night stands from SDD if I get down to just one regular chick. One night because they don't stick around once they realize there's no payday. SDD results in 2-3 new chicks per week if I focus on it (but I usually don't since my sex drive doesn't match that). I tried the BD system of online game but it really does not work for me. Stupid low response and success rates around here. (But the advice relating to everything other than online game is still spot on)
Blackdragon 2017-04-25 13:33:52
I tried the BD system of online game but it really does not work for me. Stupid low response and success rates around here.You've said that here about 10 times already. In the future, please either A) stop repeating this or B) make it clear that you live in San Francisco which is a more difficult city. Thanks.
JudoJohn 2017-04-25 13:41:20
You control your life, and everything in your life is your fault.Agreed entirely. Which is why I chose to not put myself in another bad position. You have to admit taking a fucking break after going from woman to woman for a couple decades was a good idea. The pattern had to break and I had to forge a more individual identity.
Don’t worry JudoJohn, you’ll get there.Thanks, and I hope so. The roller coaster is exhausting. What I love about BD's blog is he lays out ways of living differently without being an asshole, especially by not lying, plus acting in a way which is congruent with one's goals.
Parade 2017-04-25 14:33:59
Make it clear that you live in San Francisco which is a more difficult city. Thanks. I wish there was a system that'd give better results. Everything else you recommend works great, it's just the online dating portion that fails me. Or are those numbers to be expected of a difficult city and it's working exactly how it's supposed to? (And sorry, normally when I mention it I do mention that I live in a difficult city, I forgot this time)
victor s jackson 2017-04-25 15:07:42
You left one our. Shyness and introversion. Exteme case
Coby 2017-04-25 15:12:50
Hey BD. (or anyone willing to chime in any sort of advice) about 5 months ago my beta pussy self got dumped by my monogamous gf. I did what any pussy would do in that case (chase her to try and win her back, instead of ignore) and she is now dating an alpha 1.0 in a new rebound relationship. I work with them, and they are doing relatively rocky. I have been NC with her for 4 months. I havent talked to this new guy either. I would like to get this gal back for a fuck or two. I do not have oneitis, as I have 2 fb's at the moment, as well as two other WD'S. But I wouldnt mind having her come back around for some fun. Do NOT lecture me on what I did wrong, I know what I did wrong. Any advice is appreciated, I would love to know some tactics or tips to get some of that attraction going for me again. Thanks!
Parade 2017-04-25 15:14:40
@Coby, just forget about it. You're already seeing other chicks, why do you need the potential drama with the guy you're working with?
Coby 2017-04-25 16:20:47
@Parade, I see your point. However (and this is probably a bit of that "She's Not Like the Rest" mentality) A. She is really hot. B. We connected on an emotional level. C. I probably should have explained this, but we are ex coworkers too. I do not work with them at the moment. At the time this mess happened I did! D. She is really hot. E. We had awesome sex. F. She was fun to be around (not when we were bf/gf exclusively though) I want to try to establish an open relationship when she is done with her rebound.
Parade 2017-04-25 16:35:18
So what you're saying is that your FBs aren't really hot? If so, find some that are more attractive to you.
Anon 2017-04-25 17:16:33
Some points are valid and some are not. For example, the 'teenagers live at home' point is not, since all the boys the teenage girl knows live at home, as does she. An older woman who is 28 and still pretty has her pick of many men with good jobs, so a man who still lives with his parents stands out negatively. Good on you for telling Black/Chinese/Indian men to not attribute to race what should be attributed to ghetto crassness/low status jobs (black), or nerdy behavior, culturally programmed introversion, short height/low muscle mass (Asians, brown and yellow).
Anon 2017-04-25 18:17:24
Make it clear that you live in San Francisco which is a more difficult city. Thanks. I don't think the SF Bay Area is a more difficult city. At first, it seems that the ratio sucks. But most of the men are so beta that they don't really count as competition. A lot of tech nerds can't do an approach if their life depended on it. Plus, about half of all couples appear to be interracial. Plus, while classic pretty American women seem to be vanishing from the Bay Area, it has probably the broadest and deepest selection of educated foreign women in the US. Tons of hot gold-diggers from Russia come to SF. The few Brazilians who come to the US come to SF. A lot of rich Chinese (with pretty daughters) come to SF. I have noticed that the more a woman is bombarded with betatude and bad game, the more receptive she is to tight game. That is why game often works better on prettier women than on uggos.
Blackdragon 2017-04-25 18:23:38
Or are those numbers to be expected of a difficult city and it’s working exactly how it’s supposed to?I can't answer that question without analyzing your numbers, approaches, profile, etc, in detail, but I think we've talked before and you seemed to be doing everything right if memory serves. Regardless, you read the above "my city sucks" excuses. What's my response? FUCKING MOVE to a less difficult city. Or make plans to move as soon as you can. If you say you "can't," that's just another excuse, isn't it? You bitch about SF non-stop. Stop whining and fix it by moving.
I would like to get this gal back for a fuck or two.https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/ And remember there are tons of guys who can help you here: alpha20community.com
the ‘teenagers live at home’ point is not, since all the boys the teenage girl knows live at home, as does she. An older woman who is 28 and still pretty has her pick of many men with good jobs, so a man who still lives with his parents stands out negatively.That doesn't mean that guy can't use the similar methods used by teenage guys.
Anon 2017-04-25 18:38:39
Again, I don't think the SF Bay Area (not just SF, but even the Peninsula and South Bay) is a difficult city. It is certainly *different* than other US cities. But not more difficult. Even basic game is ahead of 95% of the guys here. The ratio does not matter when so many men are complete non-participants with zero game and zero ability to approach.
Timpleton 2017-04-25 18:53:50
Only 120-300 really. I suppose on multiple sites that would certainly be possible....but I've also seen you write elsewhere that your response rate often approaches 2%. I don't see how the numbers add up. 2% of 300 is only 6 responses. Do you have a massive success rate of first dates in that 2%? Like 5 out of 6? These numbers don't seem very workable. Speaking for myself, around here Tinder is the main app that works, and my numbers look like this: 100 matches 85% reply to opener 70% reply to second message 50% to third 5% accept date pitch Roughly. So that's only 5 dates out of 85 initial responses. It's hard to imagine getting satisfying results with only 6!
Timpleton 2017-04-25 18:59:34
This might be very slightly OT but, since one of the excuses is traditional culture etc. When a girl tells you things up front like that she is absolutely interested in only a serious relationship, looking for husband potential, etc., do you drop her and move on, or do you ignore her and proceed as usual, and let her decide as it goes just how serious she was when she said that, as she slowly learns the kind of relationship that is on offer with you? Also, what about virgins? Do you avoid them? Handle them differently? I'll give you an example, this'll probably sound insane, but I was on a 1st date, asked the girl a question "what was the worst date you've ever had" and she didn't answer directly but she was like "oh I've had some pretty bad experiences" I asked her like what, and she said that she had dated guys where the guy had wanted to do things such as hold her hand, before committing to be her boyfriend! That's an extreme example of course but I'm just curious where or if you pay attention to this kind of thing or ignore it and carry on.
Daniel 2017-04-25 19:01:17
This might be very slightly OT but, since one of the excuses is traditional culture etc. When a girl tells you things up front like that she is absolutely interested in only a serious relationship, looking for husband potential, etc., do you drop her and move on, or do you ignore her and proceed as usual, and let her decide as it goes just how serious she was when she said that, as she slowly learns the kind of relationship that is on offer with you? Also, what about virgins? Do you avoid them? Handle them differently? I’ll give you an example, this’ll probably sound insane, but I was on a 1st date, asked the girl a question “what was the worst date you’ve ever had” and she didn’t answer directly but she was like “oh I’ve had some pretty bad experiences” I asked her like what, and she said that she had dated guys where the guy had wanted to do things such as hold her hand, before committing to be her boyfriend! That’s an extreme example of course but I’m just curious where or if you pay attention to this kind of thing or ignore it and carry on.
Blackdragon 2017-04-25 19:28:16
Only 120-300 really. I suppose on multiple sites that would certainly be possible….but I’ve also seen you write elsewhere that your response rate often approaches 2%. I don’t see how the numbers add up. 2% of 300 is only 6 responses.Yes, but 2% is the worst case scenario. Often it's 4-5%. Sometimes its as high as 7-8%, but not often. So multiply your numbers accordingly.
Do you have a massive success rate of first dates in that 2%? Like 5 out of 6?Yes. I'm Blackdragon. I literally wrote the book on online dating. 🙂
Speaking for myself, around here Tinder is the main app that works, and my numbers look like this:I don't really use Tinder (it's useless for men my age wanting women under age 33). When I say 2% I'm talking about standard dating sites. The math on Tinder indeed looks quite different, as you noted. A reply on Tinder not anywhere near the equivalent of a reply on a dating site. A response on dating site is worth much more. (Tinder has a more validation whore / social media feel than something like POF or OKC, which means responses aren't worth as much.)
When a girl tells you things up front like that she is absolutely interested in only a serious relationship, looking for husband potential, etc., do you drop her and move on, or do you ignore her and proceed as usual, and let her decide as it goes just how serious she was when she said that, as she slowly learns the kind of relationship that is on offer with you?Ignore her and proceed as usual. I've fucked many women who said that. Ignore what women SAY and only pay attention to what they DO.
Also, what about virgins? Do you avoid them? Handle them differently?I give them a little more time, and I escalate more slowly and gently. Other than that, no real difference, particularly if they're under the age of 23 (less ASD). And realize your odds with virgins are always lower no matter what you do.
Parade 2017-04-25 19:30:46
Regardless, you read the above “my city sucks” excuses. What’s my response? FUCKING MOVE to a less difficult city. Or make plans to move as soon as you can. If you say you “can’t,” that’s just another excuse, isn’t it?I'm hurt you'd even think I'd make an excuse here. I won't. If the answer is truly "your city sucks" instead of "you're doing it wrong", then yes, I'll move. I'm not yet convinced of that answer, especially when there are enough people here where I can put in those numbers for the indefinite future if I have to. It doesn't mean I enjoy sending thousands of openers to end up with a single lay or leave me wondering if there's a better way. I'm secretly hoping someone will read that and go "yeah, I had the same problem and here's how I fixed it" And just to prove I'm not all negative about it: I currently have a handle on things as I stated above. What's worked for me is sending thousands of openers to get a couple regular chicks to work with, then waiting for new chicks to open me (which is somewhat rare, once every couple months) and proceeding with just those. If I ever find myself down to exactly one chick I supplement with (not paying anything) SDD to ensure I don't start feeling exclusive to her. Extremely rarely I'll meet someone at an event. This works for me given my sex drive (1-2 x per week is more than enough), but is not ideal.
Marco 2017-04-25 21:56:14
I don’t really use Tinder (it’s useless for men my age wanting women under age 33). When I say 2% I’m talking about standard dating sites. The math on Tinder indeed looks quite different, as you noted. A reply on Tinder not anywhere near the equivalent of a reply on a dating site. A response on dating site is worth much more. (Tinder has a more validation whore / social media feel than something like POF or OKC, which means responses aren’t worth as much.)What is a reasonable time frame to wait for replies after doing a 2/3 week blitz? For privacy reasons I'd rather not have my profile up longer than necessary. I want to avoid certain people from seeing it. Thanks.
Roberto 2017-04-25 22:16:44
For example, the ‘teenagers live at home’ point is not, since all the boys the teenage girl knows live at home, as does she. An older woman who is 28 and still pretty has her pick of many men with good jobs, so a man who still lives with his parents stands out negatively.That's true as far as it goes, but although I had sex as a teenager in lots of places that I wouldn't consider now (except for a laugh) - the back of my car, in a city park at night, in a friend's back garden, etc, etc - I nevertheless also had sex in lots of places that would be perfectly normal for a man in his 20s - at my place when my parents were out, at her place when her parents were out, on holidays, at friends' places, at a cousin's place, even in hotel rooms (a bit of an outlay at that time, admittedly). As someone noted above, if a woman is into you she will be DTF and, within reason, she'll be happy to do it in any location. I have seen this excuse in action just recently, when a friend who has just moved back in with his parents was complaining to me that he couldn't easily bring women home any more. I suggested that he could use my place when I am away (which is often, sometimes for weeks at a time) or otherwise not there. "Oh no, I couldn't do that, it would be embarrassing." I just shrugged my shoulders, and while I agree it may not be ideal for him, life is full of compromises.
Blackdragon 2017-04-25 22:44:17
That’s true as far as it goes, but although I had sex as a teenager in lots of places that I wouldn’t consider now (except for a laugh) – the back of my car, in a city park at night, in a friend’s back garden,That's just you being picky, not because aren't valid options. I'd be perfectly happy to have sex in those locations (and have) and I'm probably older than you are. Where's your sense of fun, youth, and adventure?!? The last time I had sex in a park, as just one example, was just 3-4 years ago when I was well into my 40's. It was great! I agree these locations are not optimal, but if there was no other option (because I was a guy living with parents or other people), shit, I'd happily take them without hesitation.
joelsuf 2017-04-26 05:03:03
It takes me about 1,000 messages on OKC to cute chicks to end up with one new lay nowadays.Holy christ. I don't think I've sent out 100 in the two and 1/2 years I've been on OKC and I've gotten with average to decent looking chicks. And I'm poor and less than average looking. AND I live in a city with a population of less than 200000, many of the more attractive chicks being in college and NOT interested in dudes 15-20 years older than them (at least in my experience) Come on man.
Roberto 2017-04-26 06:01:03
That’s just you being picky, not because aren’t valid options. I’d be perfectly happy to have sex in those locations (and have) and I’m probably older than you are. Where’s your sense of fun, youth, and adventure?!?That's where the "except for a laugh" bit comes in!
K 2017-04-26 06:39:54
There's high profile community guys who get laid left and right in SF. Notably I think Evil Stifler lived in SF and had ~600 lays? I live in NY (great city to be single in) and never been to SF, so this is KJ on my part, but I doubt SF is that much harder, just different. Yes there's more guys than women but most guys are unattractive feminized tech dweebs. If you're a masculine guy with game in SF I imagine the world is your oyster
POB 2017-04-26 10:02:59
Again, I don’t think the SF Bay Area (not just SF, but even the Peninsula and South Bay) is a difficult city. It is certainly *different* than other US cities. But not more difficult. Even basic game is ahead of 95% of the guys here. The ratio does not matter when so many men are complete non-participants with zero game and zero ability to approach.I've been to SF two weeks ago and what I got there is that chicks are most average to good. Buuut you get some foreign hotties and the occasional US bombshell, so it seemed like an "ok" city to game. The only downside is that if you do not like Asians you'll probably have a hard time building a big roster without including at least one of them. Plus the "guys being 95% pussies" quote is very accurate and on par with my (brief) experience. Even basic game must do wonders there 'cause there's virtually no competition!
Sean 2017-04-26 10:10:36
What about the excuse, "I am too busy starting up a business?" We touched on this on our SMIC call but didn't really get into it... I have my oltr and if something in my social circle falls into my lap I'll take it... but I probably won't be putting in adequate numbers for the next 6 mos to a year for cold approach to work well... some sacrifices have to be made, would you agree? Sex once a week or so is not great but I am looking at it as a short term thing...
Blackdragon 2017-04-26 11:27:17
What about the excuse, “I am too busy starting up a business?”That isn't an excuse; it's prioritization. You're not saying you "can't" do it, but that you're choosing to not focus on it for the time being, which is fine if you have other priorities at the moment. There have been many times in my life I consciously decided to back way off on my woman life to focus on my business life (it's the main reason I didn't lose my virginity until my early 20's). That's only for a limited time though. Once you get whatever projects done you need done, you can then re-focus on women, if you want.
I probably won’t be putting in adequate numbers for the next 6 mos to a year for cold approach to work well… some sacrifices have to be made, would you agree? Sex once a week or so is not great but I am looking at it as a short term thing…That's perfectly fine as long as it's not de facto monogamy! Make sure there's at least one other woman in there occasionally. Remember, if you're only fucking your OLTR, she's not an OLTR, you're monogamous.
K 2017-04-26 12:02:27
Ignore her and proceed as usual. I’ve fucked many women who said that.See, that's why women often call men jerks. She stated clearly upfront what she wanted. She informed you. You didn't want the same thing and were fully aware of it, yet you disregarded her words (and feelings) and proceeded to sleep with her without being equally upfront about your intentions. That's deceit, pure and simple.
Gil Galad 2017-04-26 12:17:27
@K: we wouldn't be what you call jerks if we hadn't seen time and time again that women punish non-jerks (by your definition at least) and reward jerks. I want nothing more than a woman who fully means what she says and sticks to it, but if it costs me the lay to assume that, and then I see another man apply the rule "don't listen to what women say, watch what they do" and women happily fuck him, then I will be an idiot to not start following it too. At some point you have to look at the facts, and the facts are that women very, very often say stuff about themselves that don't reflect what they *do* in the slightest. The onus is on women to fix that, not on men to go sexless for fear of being perceived as jerks.
Blackdragon 2017-04-26 12:45:39
See, that’s why women often call men jerks.I don't care what women call men.
She stated clearly upfront what she wanted.Incorrect. She said she didn't want to fuck me and then fucked me. Therefore, she didn't state what she wanted. If she really didn't want to fuck me, she would not have fucked me. There have been some women (though a minority) who clearly said they didn't want sex and didn't have sex with me. They were telling the truth. The others were not.
you disregarded her wordsCorrect. Because clearly they weren't the truth. When it comes to sex and dating, what women say about these things on the first and second dates (and on their dating profiles) is usually not the truth, particularly if they're under the age of 33.
and proceeded to sleep with her without being equally upfront about your intentions.You're acting as if I slept with these women against their will. No. They wanted to sleep with me. They had sex with me 100% consensually. Not only do I not force women, but if you've read my dating techniques, I don't even try very hard.
That’s deceit, pure and simple.Mutually consensual sex is not deceit. The only time it gets into the deceit zone is if the man is verbally promising something to the woman for sex that he later doesn't provide. I never do that and think men shouldn't either. If anything, I do the opposite. (My non-mono, non-boyfriend EFA is very strong.)
POB 2017-04-26 12:56:51
That’s deceit, pure and simple.No, it's not. There's not a relationship established yet (seduction phase), plus she does not know what she really wants because, well, women change their minds regularly about everything. If the guy is "hot" and knows how to push her buttons, she'll gladly go to bed with him despite the "I only want a husband" crap. Field tested a hundred times. Edit: in my experience virtually ALL WOMEN - after a certain age - will say some variation of this phrase when they meet a new guy. Yet if you know what you're doing you'll get into their panties anyway (without lying or promising anything). So why bother?
Parade 2017-04-26 13:28:10
There’s high profile community guys who get laid left and right in SF. Notably I think Evil Stifler lived in SF and had ~600 lays? I'll look him up and see what he's doing. Thanks for the name to investigate. Holy christ. I don’t think I’ve sent out 100 in the two and 1/2 years I’ve been on OKC and I’ve gotten with average to decent looking chicks. Even BD sends more messages than that when he's on. It sounds like women are unusually attracted to you, you're doing something that's upping your response rate, or your city is good for online game. I can say that I get similar results from SDD w/out spending money(I buy her one drink). Probably approaching 50% message -> sex ratio, though I haven't spent any time seriously investigating it.
K 2017-04-26 14:13:26
Correct. Because clearly they weren’t the truth.Is it that difficult to understand/accept that she (whoever she is) wants to have sex as well as a relationship with you? When she says "I don't want to fuck you outside a relationship", in 99% it translates as "I'm attracted to you very much and I'm scared you're going to hurt me". As I'm sure you know, however imprecise her language may be. A woman who really doesn't want to fuck you will not mention a relationship, except to say that she is currently uninterested in one.
Blackdragon 2017-04-26 14:53:34
Is it that difficult to understand/accept that she (whoever she is) wants to have sex as well as a relationship with you?No, that's great. I want a relationship with her too. I never do one night stands. I only do long-term relationships, or at least attempt them.
When she says “I don’t want to fuck you outside a relationship”,No woman says that. (Except for a few high-ASD over-33 women.)
it translates as “I’m attracted to you very much and I’m scared you’re going to hurt me”I only want long-term relationships, I never one night stand women, and I never lie to women, so she's found the right man.
however imprecise her language may be.If she uses imprecise language in communicating with me, that 100% her fault, not mine. Women can use precise language if they really want to. They're not stupid and they're not children.
A woman who really doesn’t want to fuck you will not mention a relationship, except to say that she is currently uninterested in one.Incorrect. There are TONS of women, mostly the younger ones, who are not looking for a "relationship" and are just looking for fun, no-strings-attached, short-term sex. You're projecting your desires and fears onto the desires of all other women on Earth. Not all women are just like you, K.
Jack Outside the Box 2017-04-26 16:00:14
Political correctness detected! Employing red pill countermeasures now:
See, that’s why women often call men jerks.Good! Our goal here is to expand the jerk population because only jerks get laid. Nice guys get a kiss on the cheek and an "I don't deserve you" speech from women while getting put in the friend zone. If this is really why women call men jerks, then that's a sign to keep doing it.
She stated clearly upfront what she wanted.Is this a joke? See, this is why no one should go to college anymore. You're brainwashed with this hyper-rational and pseudo-intellectual autistic horseshit that has no place in the animal kingdom's mating game. No one with any degree of social intelligence states anything "upfront," except in a professional or business negotiation. In your personal life, and especially in your sex life, you use your intuition and right side of the brain, which clouds the left brain's otherwise literalistic language. Sex is not an intellectual game. It is about unexpected occurrences, spontaneity, passion, and all those other good things which prevent you from calmly, rationally, and verbally "stating up front what you want," which kills all passion and animalistic desires from which the non-rational urge for sex springs. This isn't a job interview. No one believes in your autistic and hyper-literal logic except IT nerds, virgins, nice guys, the morbidly obese, the blue haired, feminists, social justice crazies, and other people who masturbate themselves to sleep and congratulate themselves for not being rapists while men with the balls to go for it have all the consensual sex in the world, leaving the hyper-intellectual in a state of permanent confusion and sexual frustration.
She informed you.HAHA! This cracks me up! "You have been informed that your credit card has expired." LOL! My god! Do you also believe that all sex is rape unless it's first prefaced with autistic verbal procedures previously employed only by the brain damaged? That's the new trend in college.
You didn’t want the same thing and were fully aware of it, yet you disregarded her wordsBecause 9 times out of 10, a woman is lying (both to me and to herself). If I were to take women's words at face value, I'd still be one of those skinny PC virgins rambling about "rape culture" and other myths! Most women instinctively want to be seduced. Their "no" simply means "seduce me first" and "get me to change my mind." Her reptilian brain wants to see what kind of man you are. Are you a feminist pussy who will listen to her like a moron? Or are you an attractive man who "gets it?" When a woman is serious about her "no," every man with even an ounce of social intelligence knows (especially when you lean in to kiss her and she simply pulls away or gives you the cheek).
(and feelings)No, her feelings were "I hope this guy is socially intelligent enough to see through my ruse, since I want a man who gets it, because that's hot." By ignoring her words, I made her happy. Taking her words at face value like an autistic retard would be me disregarding her feelings.
and proceeded to sleep with her without being equally upfront about your intentions.For fuck sake, this isn't an IRS audit! This is a game of persuasion and testing the strength of the other person's convictions! Just like I'm socially intelligent enough to pick up on her vibe, I expect the same amount of social intelligence from her in relation to me. This is a game based on animal instinct, intuition, and seduction, not your left side of the brain intellectual crap, which is a massive turn off for both sexes.
That’s deceit, pure and simple.No it's not. I never lied. She lied to me by saying she wouldn't sleep with me unless I promised her a relationship. The deceit then was hers, not mine. And deceit and token resistance are part of the game. Have you never been initiated into a single female social circle that didn't include hyper-rational feminists and aggressive bull dykes?
Is it that difficult to understand/accept that she (whoever she is) wants to have sex as well as a relationship with you?This doesn't change the fact that in the above scenario she said she's not interested in sex unless a relationship is promised. Usually, she's lying to alleviate her ASD. Other times, she means it but doesn't have the strength behind her convictions, as those convictions can be weakened by making her horny (in which case, she doesn't deserve to keep them, as only convictions that are seriously kept deserve to be respected).
When she says “I don’t want to fuck you outside a relationship”, in 99% it translates as “I’m attracted to you very much and I’m scared you’re going to hurt me”.Then the goal is not to hurt her. No problem.
As I’m sure you know, however imprecise her language may be. A woman who really doesn’t want to fuck you will not mention a relationship, except to say that she is currently uninterested in one.Then what's the problem? If a woman has sex with me in blatant violation of her own rules, that's her problem not mine. You're acting as if I'm under some type of obligation to make sure she sticks to her own rules, even when 9o percent of the time the woman will throw her own rules out the window in the presence of a masculine man who makes her quiver! Why should I be the PC virgin chump again?
Thinking little, commenting much more 2017-04-26 17:16:50
BD, I know this is off-topic, but I think it should never be missing when you offer inquirers lists of reasons for not telling a woman "you are beautiful", specially in the opening phase. On top of all what we know, it has gotten bigly out of vogue. And being socially unfashionable isn't the most convenient way to, hmm, make a woman's impression of you good. By the rules of goosethink, you would be a dullard. (Plus, narcissists with a knack for sadism, while being pleasured, will enjoy acting irritated, if not disgusted. You should steer clear of narcissists anyway, though.)
Thinking little, commenting much more 2017-04-26 17:18:54
<strong>BD</strong>, I know this is off-topic, but I think it should never be missing when you offer inquirers lists of reasons for not telling a woman "you are beautiful", specially in the opening phase. On top of all what we know, it has gotten bigly out of vogue. And being socially unfashionable isn't the most convenient way to, hmm, make a woman's impression of you good. By the rules of goosethink, you would be a dullard.
Thinking little, commenting much more 2017-04-26 17:21:36
Good! Our goal here is to expand the jerk population because only jerks get laid. Nice guys get a kiss on the cheek and an “I don’t deserve you” speech from women while getting put in the friend zone.Thanks for saying that that clearly, Jack Outside of the Box. I moved from the "I don't deserve you" plotline over to the "Please, take me" only when I understood the rules and realities that this blogs intelligently imparts readers. I had to learn the whole lesson by myself, and it was a very craggy ride. If this blog can make the learning process less steep and painful and puzzling for other people, that's a godsend. I have all reasons to believe that there is no other way on earth to be liked and respected by all women. This means that to keep them enticed and enthusiastic ("happy") I have not to be myself. Sad, but now I know what to do if and when I don't want to be alone.
Duke 2017-04-26 17:38:37
@ Parade, if the numbers for online are so bad, why don't you day game? I live in a way smaller city than SF and I find find so many opportunities to day game. @Jack, don't know why you argue with women. You should already know they're a walking contradiction. She just wants men to take responsibility (be supplicators) for procuring a (FLR) female led relationship for the woman, which is dumb. It's a man's responsibility to get to sex, and a woman's responsibility to procure commitment and or resources. The thing is women want to be wanted even if they themselves don't want the man. That's why women will complain that their husband won't try or make an effort anymore, even if she already turned him down dozens/hundreds of times. And you hit it on the head, college is a joke and is becoming autistic. I'm a non-trad student, and when I first started attending back in 2012, one of the instructors actually said that you should ask a woman's permission to kiss her or even compliment her! I had to try hard not to bust up laughing, while the rest of the class all had serious faces.
Timpleton 2017-04-26 18:54:21
Very interesting about the relative values of responses on Tinder vs. a dating site. I guess I'll see for myself when I get back to the US. For what it's worth, I think you are wrong about Tinder not working for you due to age. I am 38 myself, and it's all that I use, and I think of the last 12 girls I've laid on there, the oldest was 24? I just select the "don't show my age" option, and then I also changed my birthday on facebook to 23 years old (I prefer FB doesn't have real information about me anyway), just in case Tinder secretly continues to use that information to make your matches behind the scenes.
Jack Outside the Box 2017-04-26 19:29:46
Timpleton - You are required to have a Facebook in order to have a Tinder, correct?
Blackdragon 2017-04-26 21:41:17
I guess I’ll see for myself when I get back to the US..
I think you are wrong about Tinder not working for you due to age. I am 38 myself, and it’s all that I use, and I think of the last 12 girls I’ve laid on there, the oldest was 24? I just select the “don’t show my age” option, and then I also changed my birthday on facebook to 23 years old (I prefer FB doesn’t have real information about me anyway), just in case Tinder secretly continues to use that information to make your matches behind the scenes.You're not in the US. I have done exactly what you recommend in the US, as have other older guys, and have had the same problem. Other countries are probably different (less ASD in Europe, South America, etc).
Timpleton – You are required to have a Facebook in order to have a Tinder, correct?Yes. That's why a lot of people are switching to dating apps like Blendr and Clover. No Facebook required for those.
You left one our. Shyness and introversion. Exteme caseI just updated the post above with a new item number 30.
K 2017-04-26 22:54:28
Incorrect. There are TONS of women, mostly the younger ones, who are not looking for a “relationship” and are just looking for fun, no-strings-attached, short-term sex. You’re projecting your desires and fears onto the desires of all other women on Earth. Not all women are just like you, KI've never said there weren't, where did you get the idea? All I said in the quote you addressed by the above was that a woman who doesn't want any sex with you will not be showing interest in having a relationship with you (barring a few exceptional gold-digging cases, maybe).
K 2017-04-26 23:33:19
If a woman has sex with me in blatant violation of her own rules, that’s her problem not mine.You're right, Jack, and I'd say most women figure this out by the age of 33. Then you lump it into one box with ASD 😉
No one with any degree of social intelligence states anything “upfront,” except in a professional or business negotiation.I can't see much difference. Especially in a business negotiation no involved party shares everything upfront. Both parties provide an initial outlay of the desired outcome of the negotiation for them. When it is established that the desired outcomes significantly differ, the business negotiation is usually discontinued because an outcome satisfactory for both is unattainable. It makes sense only if you're trying to trick the other party into something you want and they don't - such a strategy may obviously be effective, just not ethical.
Parade 2017-04-27 08:22:23
@Duke: if the numbers for online are so bad, why don’t you day game? Honestly, I don't have the time/motivation. My normal life does not take me out to daytime events, and I'm not the kind of person to get enjoyment from hanging out in a park all day or something. So day game for me would be 'go out specifically with the intention of doing daygame, doing things I'd never be doing otherwise.' I know from experience that forcing myself to do that kind of thing always leads to trouble.
Gil Galad 2017-04-27 09:11:09
My normal life does not take me out to daytime events, and I’m not the kind of person to get enjoyment from hanging out in a park all day or something. So day game for me would be ‘go out specifically with the intention of doing daygame, doing things I’d never be doing otherwise.’LOL this describes me as well, and furthermore, when I do go out, it's often for some "me time", not for socializing. But no matter, I'm pretty sure online dating will only get more popular with time. And I wouldn't underestimate supplementing with on-the-fly game too; as I said the other day, women can be surprisingly aggressive (not in a bad sense) when it comes to showing their interest to a complete stranger, and it's not so rare if you carry yourself in a way that catches attention. You could call that "passive game", which can get you lays without you having to make any further commitment on top of online game.
Duke 2017-04-27 17:20:49
on-the-fly gameThis is what I think about when I talk about day game. Going out with the sole intention of day gaming would be awkward for me, I don't how some of these guys do it. I'm self employed, take a couple of classes at the local college, take a lot of public transportation, and have a lot of down time, so that gives me a lot of situations to work with. There are so many baristas, bank tellers, fast food workers etc. In addition, I don't do any online transactions that involve paperless billing or another similar type of hack, I pay all my bills in person if possible. I go to the store sometimes for one item, and sometimes go to stores in other neighborhoods or parts of town. And what GG said:
women can be surprisingly aggressive (not in a bad sense) when it comes to showing their interest to a complete stranger, and it’s not so rare if you carry yourself in a way that catches attention.Walking around nicely dressed in a confident manner will get you all kinds of stares/smiles/ invitations to approach. And all your doing is running errands and minding your own business, only approaching when appropriate. Plus what someone said earlier, all those dudes over there are pussified simps, making it easier to stand out with minimal/basic game.
Grigori Perelman 2017-04-28 00:00:04
Although the list is very long two reasons are missing: 1.) I have a small dick. 2.) The women I masturbate to are way hotter than the women I can have sex with in real life. I wonder why there is so little discussion about reason 1 in blogs like this.
Blackdragon 2017-04-28 10:18:15
1.) I have a small dick.That has literally nothing to do with your ability to get laid with new women. (Most women don't even see my dick during the first time we have sex. It just goes in them. And by then, we're having sex.)
2.) The women I masturbate to are way hotter than the women I can have sex with in real life.That's a smokescreen for another excuse I already listed in the above article, likely excuse number 1.
Duke 2017-04-28 17:12:58
That has literally nothing to do with your ability to get laid with new women. (Most women don’t even see my dick during the first time we have sex. It just goes in them. And by then, we’re having sex.)I think he assumes women are big on size (no pun intended). And this causes him self-esteem issues and maybe performance anxiety, which he feels are/is justified. Maybe therapy will help. I suggest he watch this porn series called "The cocksucking challenge." The main actor on that is way below industry standards, but you couldn't tell by the way he acts.
joelsuf 2017-04-29 02:01:23
That’s deceit, pure and simple.Its only deceit if you promise something before during or after sex and don't deliver on it.
1.) I have a small dick. 2.) The women I masturbate to are way hotter than the women I can have sex with in real life.3) You have criminally low self esteem that needs to be fixed. I'm 5'8'' fatass, make roughly $20000 a year, do twitch streams where I play video games for four hours in my spare time, my city has less than 200000 people in it making online dating "less than optimal" according to BD, and my dick is just under average length. If I put forth any concentrated effort to get laid with decent looking chicks I'd probably have an STD or an unwanted kid. Read the third comment in this post to get a little background about me. I was one of those who "isn't supposed" to get laid. But I do. With decent looking chicks as well. Anyone who isn't disabled can. But go on, keep mentioning your blatantly shallow issues that I wish were all I had. Not trying to be mean but consider this a metaphysical swift kick in the nuts to see if you still have them. I've had buddies tell me similar back before I thought I could "never get laid" because "my past sucks too much" 😉
Shyness is a curable condition, and can be overcome by consistent practice, just like anything else. (And for the record, I am an introvert.)I too am an introvert, ISFP to be exact. This whole view of "well I'm an introvert, so I can't be as outgoing as everyone else" is starting to appear more a rationalization for actively rejecting others than any other reason. I mean I can stay in the house and write/play video games/other introvert activities for days upon weeks on end, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to develop an outgoing personality.
Even BD sends more messages than that when he’s on. It sounds like women are unusually attracted to you, you’re doing something that’s upping your response rate, or your city is good for online game.He doesn't. According to his online dating book, he does about 20 "e-approaches" a day and that's when he's deep in the hunt and stops at 300 or so. You said you do 1000. So either you are exaggerating or you are doing something decisively wrong and need to revisit BD's materials regarding online dating.
Evil StiflerI'd argue that a decent amount of his lays are more than likely him fucking passed out drunk chicks. Most of RSD's materials since 2014 have been bordering on rapey. Although up until then they were legit.
Blackdragon 2017-04-29 13:37:27
I think he assumes women are big on size (no pun intended). And this causes him self-esteem issues and maybe performance anxiety, which he feels are/is justifiedThen it's identical to excuses 1-3.
Parade 2017-04-30 09:21:37
He doesn’t. According to his online dating book, he does about 20 “e-approaches” a day and that’s when he’s deep in the hunt and stops at 300 or so. You said you do 1000. And you said you've sent less than 100 total. If that's the case, I stand by my original point: you're doing something very right since your numbers are better than BD by far. Or you just have a very small sample size and got lucky. And the 2nd bit, about online materials: I have, and I've even talked to BD personally a few years ago. It could be something about me that makes me less attractive to decent looking chicks, I suppose. No idea how to figure that out. I've tried with two completely different profiles, neither works very well. My SDD profile is different, and it works well, but that's a different site. Or maybe it's my city and I need to leave. But that'd mean just giving up without trying...tho I have an acceptable sex life now, it's too hard to add a new regular to it.
Gil Galad 2017-04-30 10:23:25
@Parade: have you tried the bit where you have your profile pics done by a professional photographer, all dressed up and all that ? It could be your missing link. My impression is that more than half the girls who ignore my openers ignore them without visiting my profile first, which means (apart from those who ignore them because they're not there for dating but just for the ego boost of receiving and counting the notifications) they basically saw my profile pic in their feed, had a mental "nope, doesn't qualify", and moved on. I think we'd be surprised how frequent this is if we had actual stats.
Parade 2017-04-30 12:29:22
@Gil Galad: Yep, I have one in a suit, one in a T-shirt, and one doing something active. All 3 are professional photos.
John0619 2017-04-30 18:20:18
I had a great time with an older girl that I went out on date with and I haven't heard back for from her. She has 2 kids. I reached out to her once but didn't leave a message. It's been a few days and I haven't heard back from her . Should I bother to reach out. Any suggestions?
Duke 2017-05-01 10:16:06
If the answer is truly “your city sucks” instead of “you’re doing it wrong”, then yes, I’ll move. I’m not yet convinced of that answer, especially when there are enough people here where I can put in those numbers for the indefinite future if I have to.Sounds like a waste of time to me, but on the other hand not knowing what I'm doing wrong/what I could be doing better would probably drive me crazy too. I would move out of there, and get a change scenery. I don't how you can justify staying there with the high cost of living that exists in the Bay Area. Not sure if you've traveled before, but the novelty of being in a new city energizes you. Getting to know the culture while trying to make connections for your job even if it's still the US will probably do wonders for changing your perspective a bit. @ John0619
Should I bother to reach out.You already did. If she was interested she would have gotten back to you already. Move on.
Parade 2017-05-02 23:32:49
I don’t how you can justify staying there with the high cost of living that exists in the Bay Area.That's easy: because I'm making even more money. If I moved elsewhere I'd take probably a 20% minimum salary hit, and my cost of living would not change very much. My housing costs are dirt cheap for this area, and, while I could knock $300/mo or so off my rent by moving, I don't see why I would when that $300/mo costs me 20-30% of my salary. My food and entertainment costs are negligible and would not change by moving. Actually, that's not quite true, I could move to a ski resort town and save a few hundred per month during the winter in travel costs, but that puts me in a small town, with no job prospects, with no women (seriously, all dudes in ski towns).
Smart Bobby 2017-05-06 18:17:34
Excuse 31: I can't get laid with girls because I'm gay! wait what...?
Anon 2017-05-09 15:43:55
I philosophically agree with each point, but in practical terms, it is much harder to overcome certain hangups, phobias, and regrets. If a person's parents really sabotaged him, yes, that should not count 20 years later, but the damage done to the psyche, the self-esteem, etc. just does not go away so easily. Similarly, if someone comes from a group with bad SP, and hence is too introverted and cannot do daytime approaches, even if he logically knows this should not be difficult, the deprogramming is still a huge process that most can't get through easily.
Blackdragon 2017-05-09 16:59:09
I philosophically agree with each point, but in practical terms, it is much harder to overcome certain hangups, phobias, and regrets.Completely irrelevant. Achieving all of these things is difficult. It was for me and everyone else. Doesn't matter.
Anon 2017-05-21 20:17:35
Completely irrelevant. Achieving all of these things is difficult. It was for me and everyone else. Doesn’t matter. No, no. That is like saying, "You want more money? Just become a billionaire.". Easier said than done. Some people just can't overcome the massive SP, even if they intellectually know better. The subconscious baggage is too deep...
Blackdragon 2017-05-21 20:45:20
No, no. That is like saying, “You want more money? Just become a billionaire.”.That is literally nothing like what I just said.
Anon 2017-05-27 15:14:37
That is literally nothing like what I just said. It is. You are saying an extremely difficult goal is not difficult. You are saying these challenges are not crushing for some people. They are. One can intellectually agree with your principles (which I do), yet have so much deep subconscious baggage that they just can't make the change even with a ton of work (i.e. they can't do daytime approaches, even if they know it is no big deal).. If you can write more about overcoming deep, paralyzing SP, that would be great. _________________________________________________ Regarding Game, while your advice is good, the common problem with many PUA experts is that they are 'naturals' to a greater extent than they realize. They never came from a position of a completely unskilled beta even if they think they did. For example, Krauser was married to a perfect 10 (in his words) even before he ever learned Game. That means his baseline natural ability was high. In your case, you were already pretty good with women even at 20. Many men start from 100 meter behind the starting line of the race, in that regard.
Blackdragon 2017-05-27 16:31:13
You are saying an extremely difficult goal is not difficult.I have not stated any specific goals in this conversation. Getting your income up or getting laid, given about two years of work, is not difficult, provided you're not mentally retarded or weigh 400 pounds or something.
You are saying these challenges are not crushing for some people. They are.I've never said that and don't believe that. You're unable to quote me correctly, so will be my last response to you in this thread.
In your case, you were already pretty good with women even at 20.Excuse me, but I was a terrified virgin until I was 23. I've never been a natural. You have me confused with someone else. Next time, get your facts straight regarding who I am and what my views are before you try to debate a topic with me.
Anon 2017-05-27 23:37:22
Excuse me, but I was a terrified virgin until I was 23. That is still a lot better than many guys (assuming the woman was pretty). Going back to what you said a couple of comments up : Completely irrelevant. Achieving all of these things is difficult. It was for me and everyone else. Doesn’t matter. That still sounds like glossing over or downplaying the level of difficulty many men will have in trying to learn Game. My main point from earlier, which you did not address, is that someone can agree intellectually, and still be unable to progress due to massive subconscious limitations (from years of SP) that they cannot pinpoint. Your only response to that was 'completely irrelevant'. It is not. Many men will not be able to overcome these challenges even with hard work.
Hyaku 2017-06-16 13:19:33
Man, I love your writing. Any time I feel down or like a little bitch, all I need is a BD article or two to literally feel the testosterone flowing through my veins.
joelsuf 2018-01-28 12:50:16
This is more relevant than ever, I've been sharing the shit out of it lol.
Marty McFly 2018-03-01 16:21:12
What if you have a certifiable personality disorder such as STPD which makes socializing extremely difficult, if not impossible? To what extent is game even applicable for someone such as this?
joelsuf 2018-10-22 12:01:46
I'm reviving this every now and then by commenting on it, and I think it should be a pinned post. To any asshole who says "Oh I can't do _____," kindly fuck off and find a way. If this massively disabled woman who can do like two things find a way to acquire Alpha 2 income, then you can too. So yeah.