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Moving Out of the Country: Having a Rotating Home
-By Caleb Jones
The problem is, in the winter, Alaska, even southern Alaska, turns into a fucking ice age. So in the winter, he would fly down to his second home in Scottsdale, Arizona, where the summers are scorching hot (100+ degrees is normal) but the winters are mild and nice.
This way, year-round, he had perfect, sunny-but-mild weather. He had to maintain two homes, which was costly (though he could have rented them out using a service like AirBnB if he wanted), but he was very happy with this arrangement. He always had amazing weather, took advantage of various favorable tax laws, and even had two girlfriends, one in each location.
In the US, these people are called “snowbirds.” I remember envying my grandpa, even when I was a kid, when I saw him live this way. It seemed like a very high-happiness way to live.
I remembered this when I first started planning my exit from the Collapsing USA in earnest several years ago. In accordance with my Five Flags plan, I have to arrange my expat lifestyle so as to pay the minimum amount of taxes allowed by law. My goal is to get my total tax liability to 4% or less. (0% would be ideal, and is doable, but I may not be able to get it that low based on my lifestyle standards. If I get it to 4% or less, I’ll be happy.)
The problem is that if I choose my Country A (the country I will live in, but not be a legal citizen in) and live there 12 months out of the year or close to it, I may incur a residency tax even though I’m not a citizen there. For example, New Zealand is on my short list for possible Country A’s. If I live there more than six months a year, NZ’s socialist government wants to slap a tax on me. Can't have that! Instead, I could live in NZ for 5.5 months out of the year and spend the other six months somewhere else, returning to NZ as my “home base.”
My current plan, that is only a rough draft at this point and is certainly subject to change, is to do a Five Flags, international version of what my grandpa used to do domestically. That is:
1. In October, just as it starts to get cold and rainy in the USA (particularly in the Pacific Northwest region where I live now), head to my real home base in New Zealand, and stay there until the end of February. This is just under six months before the taxes kick in. Since New Zealand is south of the equator, its summers are the inverse to us in the US, so Oct-Feb will actually be their summer. I’ll catch all the great weather, and leave just as it starts to get cold.
2. At the end of February, head over to my favorite city in the entire world, Hong Kong. Visiting HK in February is a nightmare because of the Chinese New Year, but at the end of February, that insanity is all over with. I would stay in HK during March, April, and May. These are the best months of the year to stay in HK. By June, HK is so hot and disgusting that even people who live there and love it complain about it. Moreover, HK is a lot to take in, and three months there is more than enough, so I’ll be out of there before the extreme city life gets on my (or Pink Firefly’s) nerves. And best of all, no taxes!
3. At the end of May, I will head back to the USA, Pacific Northwest, to spend the beautiful summers there and to catch up with my family. At that point (post 2025), it’s very possible I may have grandchildren so I’ll certainly want to spend some time with them, as well as my kids. Also, the Pacific Northwest is rainy and depressing for most of the year, but during the summer it’s incredible here. I’d spend June, July, August, and a little September there to enjoy it all before heading back to my home base in New Zealand in late September or early October, then start the process all over again. Once I renounce my US citizenship, I may only be able to stay 90 days in the US on my visitor’s visa, so I may have to modify this plan a little at that time, but 90 days is fine with me. Over time, I will be likely visiting the US less and less as it slowly descends into depression and chaos, particularly if my two children decide to both move out of the country themselves (they have both expressed a strong desire to do so).
This seems to me like a very enjoyable way to live, while still getting all the benefits of Five Flags. There are a few hiccups and downsides to this plan, and it’s not perfect. As one example, while I’m still a US citizen, being in the USA for more than 35 days in a year means I'll wipe out my FEIE tax exemption for my first $100,000 in income, so I’ll have to offset that exemption somewhere else. Regardless, for the moment it looks like a template that I’d enjoy.
It could also be the type of thing that sounds good on paper but a hassle once I actually do it. But hey, the only way to know is to try it. My current plan (again, subject to change) is for me and Pink Firefly to give it a shot and stick with it for two full years, then re-evaluate the system at that point and tweak / modify if necessary.
As always, I’m updating my plan as I uncover new information. (Argentina sill looks like a great Country A for a non-citizen like myself.)
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Yatadhamo 2017-08-13 06:31:27
Hi Caleb, After you renounce your US citizenship, in which country you will be based your home passport then?
Caleb Jones 2017-08-13 11:29:20
After you renounce your US citizenship, in which country you will be based your home passport then?Not sure yet, but I will need two passports outside of my USA passport, not just one, as I discussed here. A few countries on my short list are Argentina, Comoros, Uruguay, Italy, and a few more. More detail here and here.
Shanghai_bobby 2017-08-13 14:25:50
Good plan B, however, NZ's weather is quite garbage throughout the Christmas patch (mid-Dec to mid Jan) - we're notorious for having shitty weather when people are off, and great weather when people are back to work. October is ok, but still questionable, and it's quite hit + miss. Every thought about November - March, and maybe spend the entire Dec 15 - Jan 15 somewhere else?
Walter 2017-08-13 15:02:06
Hey guys, if anyone is looking at Colombia as an option for living (excellent weather, very beautiful women, good economy, security situation is getting better) I can help you out. I come from there and I have a vast network of PUA contacts. Anything you need, I tell you where and how to get it. Just shoot me an email at firstname.lastname@example.org
Caleb Jones 2017-08-13 15:41:53
NZ’s weather is quite garbage throughout the Christmas patch (mid-Dec to mid Jan)
Every thought about November – March, and maybe spend the entire Dec 15 – Jan 15 somewhere else?Nope. Living in 3 different locations will be quite enough, thanks. We'll take the rain, if any.
Bob 2017-08-14 00:54:28
I hear Argentina is not actually 2 years, but closer to five like most other countries. Uruguay is also 5 if you're not married. At that point might as well do Chile and get US Visa Waiver, plus you can apparently exempt foreign earned income for the first few years. Also people should keep in mind the Comoros citizens will have a much harder time getting a second passport than a citizen from a developed country, so for many people it may be best to get a better passport before renouncing.
Caleb Jones 2017-08-14 10:24:58
for many people it may be best to get a better passport before renouncingI consider that an absolute for anyone even considering renouncing. Don't even think about renouncing until and unless you have at least one, and preferably two additional passports. The possibility of having zero passports is way too dangerous. Renouncing is not something I'm going to do for a pretty long time. It's the last step in this entire process, by far. Literally everything else has to be situated perfectly first.
Zan 2017-08-14 14:43:39
I never thought about Comoros. So why Comoros?
Anon 2017-08-14 14:57:00
Because the government of Comoros simply sells passports.
Caleb Jones 2017-08-14 16:05:52
Because the government of Comoros simply sells passports.Yep. For the low low price of $45,000. (At the moment at least.) Worth it if you can save on American taxes over the course of the rest of your working lifetime.
Newbie 2017-08-15 01:07:09
Renouncing is not something I’m going to do for a pretty long time. It’s the last step in this entire process, by far. Literally everything else has to be situated perfectly first.Is it because coming back to visit people in US would then be difficult without US passport?
Walter 2017-08-15 04:53:54
Hey Zan how did you made the shield of captain america as your avatar? I want to put an image as avatar here too.
Zan 2017-08-15 09:43:12
Google Captain America shield, download and save. Click on avatar pic, then choose the shield you downloaded and hit save.
THH 2017-08-15 11:40:26
Getting a visitor's visa after renouncing American citizenship might not be so smooth. In my, admittedly light, research into one day becoming an expat, I've come across articles that mention how the state dept/immigration are coming down harder and harder on people who renounce citizenship. First, by dragging their feet on granting the renouncement and then by making it difficult or impossible for those people to return to the US, even for a visit.
Caleb Jones 2017-08-15 14:49:28
Is it because coming back to visit people in US would then be difficult without US passport?Huh? There are millions of people in the US right now who don't have a US passport. Could it if difficult? Maybe. Impossible? No. I barely care. As I said, I won't be renouncing for a very long time, and by then I hopefully won't give a shit about visiting the US for an extended period of time anyway.
Getting a visitor’s visa after renouncing American citizenship might not be so smooth. In my, admittedly light, research into one day becoming an expat, I’ve come across articles that mention how the state dept/immigration are coming down harder and harder on people who renounce citizenship. First, by dragging their feet on granting the renouncement and then by making it difficult or impossible for those people to return to the US, even for a visit.More or less true, though you're spinning it a little more negative than it really is. Nothing about renouncing your US citizenship is easy. It takes a lot of time and effort, there are risks involved, the government will be against you every step of the way, they will attempt to keep taxing you even years after you do it, you might have trouble spending extended time in the US afterwards (I said might have trouble, not "impossible"; that's paranoia), and so on. To me, the lifetime tax savings are more than worth it provided I don't do this for quite a long time (many years after 2025) and I have all my ducks in a row before I do it. All achievement in life involves risk. Your goal is to prepare an insane amount beforehand so as to minimize those risks before taking action.
Walter 2017-08-18 13:35:15
Google Captain America shield, download and save. Click on avatar pic, then choose the shield you downloaded and hit save.That didnt work. Caleb, could you please make it so this image is showed as avatar instead of the default symbol? https://orig05.deviantart.net/2c93/f/2017/230/e/5/tristanavatar3_by_walterbl-dbkidzi.jpg Also in the blackdragon forum if possible. Thanks
R 2017-08-22 13:02:58
Hey Caleb, I don't think you've mentioned so far in this series anything about the legality of TRT in countries you're considering moving to. I'm sure you've thought of it, but do you know if its allowed in any of the countries on your short list? I imagine if it wasn't that would be a deallbreaker.
Caleb Jones 2017-08-26 09:32:25
I don’t think you’ve mentioned so far in this series anything about the legality of TRT in countries you’re considering moving to. I’m sure you’ve thought of it, but do you know if its allowed in any of the countries on your short list? I imagine if it wasn’t that would be a deallbreaker.I've looked into it, and TRT is legal in most places. What I think you're worried about is HGH (human growth hormone) which is indeed illegal in many places, but I don't take that.
Osman 2019-05-16 23:50:39
Hi Caleb Have you ever been to Alitak?
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