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When SHE Breaks The Relationship Rules
-By Caleb Jones
That being said, there are times where you’re doing everything more or less correctly, and she breaks one of the rules. What happens then?
As always, we need to get our contexts aligned when we say “rules.”
In FB relationships, there are no rules. She can do pretty much whatever she wants. So a woman in an FB relationship with you can’t “break a rule.” She can be a bitch, she can give you drama, and so forth (time for an instant soft next if that’s the case!) but she can’t break any rules.
In an MLTR, there aren’t any “rules” that she needs to follow. She’s welcome to have sex with other men and even date other men. The only rules a woman can break in an MLTR is if you’re not using condoms on her and she promises to do the same with other men, and then violates that promise, thereby putting your health at risk. There may be a few other odd scenarios I can think of, but for the most part, it’s pretty hard for a woman to break a rule in an MLTR.
OLTR, now that’s a different story. Unlike other types of nonmonogamous relationships, in an OLTR there are indeed rules. Not many rules (and if there are, you’re doing it wrong), but some. So yes, a woman in an OLTR can indeed break the rules if she’s not careful.
So the first way to avoid this problem is to simply never have an OLTR. If you never have an OLTR and just stick with FBs and MLTRs, which is a perfectly fine model, you’ll never need to worry about any woman breaking any rules because she’ll never have any.
That being said, most men will want something that at least looks like an OLTR at some point in their older years when they’re over age 35. What then?
The next way to deal with a woman breaking the rules is to minimize the odds of ever ending up with a woman who will break the rules in the first place. There are three simple ways to do this; simple, but not easy:
1. Don’t get into an OLTR with any woman under the age of about 24. The older, the better.
2. Don’t get into an OLTR with any woman who isn’t low-drama, low-ASD, or is a Dominant. I see way too many of you guys getting into OLTRs with women who are higher drama, higher ASD, Dominants, and so on. Also remember that certain races and nationalities of women are more drama than others (coughRussianscough).
3. Never get into an OLTR unless you’ve dated her, consistently and often, for at least 6-12 months as an MLTR and there has been near-zero problems that entire time. Let me be clear about this: “dating consistently and often” means you’ve been seeing her once a week for 6-12 months. It does not mean you see her for a while then leave town for a month then start seeing her again then leave town again for three weeks then see her again and so on. That’s not consistent, and that doesn’t count.
In the two OLTRs I’ve had, I’ve never experienced a woman violate any rules. Do you know why? I followed the above three guidelines to the letter. It took both HBM and Pink Firefly years of me dating them as FBs and then MLTRs before we became an OLTR, so I had plenty of time to verify their low-drama, low-ASD status. They weren’t Dominants either. (Dominants usually don’t last past about two or three dates with me anyway.) I don’t like drama or problems, so I have to make very sure a woman isn’t prone to these problems before she becomes my OLTR girlfriend / wife.
Once again, I see a hell of a lot of you bastards leap into OLTR relationships with women well before you’ve been dating them consistently and often for at least six months (12+ months is better!). Not smart. Control that oneitis! There is never any rush to get into an OLTR. Never. I don't care how awesome she is or how she's Not Like The Rest™. Calm the fuck down and take your time.
In my case, I have essentially no rules for Pink Firefly other than the basic OLTR rule (she can’t have MLTRs, just FBs, if she wants) a handful of minor rules relating to the fact we live together (none of which would exist if we lived in separate homes). That’s it! As a matter of fact, in terms of the sexual aspect of the OLTR, I’ve agreed to far more rules from Pink Firefly than she has from me, since as a woman, she’s more outcome dependent than I am. (Just expect this if you ever have an OLTR; women are the way they are.)
If you don’t want drama or problems, follow my example. I occasionally see guys go a little too far in the Alpha Male 1.0 direction in OLTRs, and lay down all kinds of rules for their girlfriends that are just going to bite them in the ass later. Again, not smart. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but women are not very good at following relationship rules long-term. Why fight this? (Unless you’re an Alpha Male 1.0 and have consciously chosen to be one, but if that's the case, I'm not sure why you're reading this blog.)
In talking with hundreds of men about this topic over the last decade, here are some examples I’ve heard of women in OLTRs breaking the rules:
- After establishing a rule to not fuck any guy in their shared social circle, she does so anyway, and in a very public way.
- She fucks her boyfriend’s/husband’s best friend or close family member.
- She inadvertently brings one of her FBs around their kids. (This is rarely intentional, and more often a result of a stupid oversight or accident.)
- After establishing a rule of keeping the OLTR status secret, she gets angry or drunk one day and blabs it to everyone, or her certain people she wasn’t supposed to tell.
You get the idea.
If this happens, first stop and see if you’ve violated any of the guidelines I outlined above. Did you leap into the OLTR before dating consistently and often for at least six months? Is she 20 years old? Did you throw too many rules at her? Is she a Dominant? And so on.
Odds are high you’ve done one or more of these things wrong. If so, remember that everything in your life is your fault, including this, and you have only yourself to blame. For the next OLTR, don’t make the same mistakes again.
Next, you’ll have to take corrective action. If this is the first time she’s ever broken a rule, tell her what she did wrong and why. Stay calm, don’t get angry, don’t lecture her, and don’t argue with her. That stuff is for Alpha 1.0s. The Alpha 2.0 is outcome independent and doesn’t give a shit enough to actually get upset. Just calmly tell her what she did and why it’s a problem. Stick to the facts, keep your feelings out of it, and remain calm.
If it's the first time she's ever done this and she agrees she fucked up and promises not to do it again, then immediately accept her apology, drop the subject, and move on. It’s over; get back to your happy relationship with her.
If she instead gets defensive, fights you, and/or says or implies she didn’t do anything wrong, then it's more than likely you’re with the wrong woman and you need to end the OLTR right now. Downgrade her to FB or MLTR or terminate the relationship. Then ask yourself why you were such a dumbass to get into an OLTR with such a person. Again, this shit is YOUR FAULT.
If this is not the first time she’s done this, and then you have a problem. If the last time she did this was many years ago, and everything else in the relationship is good, then accept her apology and move on, but remind her that if she does this again, she’s threatening the future of your relationship with her. Also strongly consider rescinding that rule she broke, because clearly she's having trouble following it.
If the last time she did this was less than 12 months ago, then you have a decision to make. I would probably downgrade or terminate her right then and there, but I suppose there might be scenarios where you could give her one more chance, and if she does it again, then terminate or downgrade.
Again though, I want you to see how much time I spend in this article preventing the problem instead of dealing with the fallout of the problem. If you’re smart, rational, and control your oneitis, you can prevent this from ever happening. It’s never happened to me, so it can be done.
If you want to design your own low-work, high-income, location-independent business, I’ll be doing a seminar on exactly how to do that in Las Vegas in July.
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Kaelos 2018-05-31 05:59:56
In my case, I have essentially no rules for Pink Firefly other than the basic OLTR rule & a handful of minor rules relating to the fact we live togetherWhich are some minor rules that you recommend to have for an OLTR to follow?
Franklin 2018-05-31 07:09:27
Guys who've been reading your stuff for a while will know this, but to any newcomers: A recommendation of having few or no rules for the woman in your OLTR does not mean you should make few or no preparations (especially legal ones) before cohabiting or having kids with an OLTR or entering an open marriage.
Tom 2018-05-31 07:57:03
Let me point out a few of my thoughts right now: 1. Most men will get oneitis pretty soon if they didn't date enough. So how many girls u think will level up your seduction skill, ie 3 DIFFERENT girls/week? That seems time consuming, i feel like even though she's able somehow to control her emotions going out with me, but assuming she's an older woman, i'd feel my smv/preselection has problem because why should i date an older woman fact: most men are attracted to younger; hotter woman. 2. It's very hard to stay IN CONTROL (alpha 2.0) during an argument, most people 'd just keep quiet (betas tend to do the most/blushing), in what situation you should definitely counter back someone's argument?
joelsuf 2018-05-31 08:36:47
She fucks her boyfriend’s/husband’s best friend or close family member.My MLTR and I were joking about this. We were at a barbecue and everyone from my social circle was there. As well as a really close friend of mine hasn't had sex in 15(!) years (don't know how that's possible without breaking the law somehow lol). Told the MLTR that she should pity fuck him, or at least fool around with him a bit. She gave him a motorboat right then and there, then grabbed his crotch haha. But nothing happened after that. So my boy's like "you're not gonna control your girl?" And I was like "I drove her here, she knows who she's coming home to" Outcome independence is pretty awesome lol.
Jack Outside the Box 2018-05-31 08:57:49
She gave him a motorboat right then and there,What's that?
TheRealCurtis 2018-05-31 08:59:15
This goes to show that to some degree - opposites do attract! An Alpha 2 would rarely work in an OLTR with a highly dominant woman. And a non-dominant woman typically does not pair well with a Beta man either. Have you done any articles on how us Alpha 2 guys can narrow our search to more Non-Dom types of women? Both for online or offline dating. Certain clues to look for, things these type of women say or do that might help us save time. I kinda feel that their are the Dominant ones and then there are the "Wanna be" Dominant ones that have had some brain washing from their Dom female friends but in the end, they are really Non-Dom and prefer a Dominant man. This kinda goes to the part you mentioned in book - look at what they DO versus SAY. However, it would be really cool if there was a way to weed many of these true Dominants out in the beginning!
Paul 2018-05-31 09:41:07
Why can’t Pink Firefly have MLTRs?? It seems like a confident comperisive non-jealous Alpha 2.0 would be totally fine with MLTRs.
RandomJin 2018-05-31 10:18:22
Why can’t Pink Firefly have MLTRs?? It seems like a confident comperisive non-jealous Alpha 2.0 would be totally fine with MLTRs.Because then she would be an MLTR. Under the OLTR model, both people are not allowed to have any MLTRs. That's the whole point -> emotional exlusivity.
Blackdragon 2018-05-31 10:29:52
Which are some minor rules that you recommend to have for an OLTR to follow?None, except the one about not fucking anyone in your shared social circle (friends, family) without getting permission first (or just not doing it at all).
Most men will get oneitis pretty soon if they didn’t date enough. So how many girls u think will level up your seduction skill, ie 3 DIFFERENT girls/week?Its not so much women per week, but total number of women you've dated in some kind of FB or MLTR relationship. You need at least 10-15 of these relationships under your belt and fuck at least 30 women or so before you should even think about getting an OLTR in my view. Read this.
in what situation you should definitely counter back someone’s argument?Only if she's accusing you of something you didn't do; in that case, she needs to be corrected. Other than that, either A) apologize and move on or B) let her bitch for a 20 seconds, give her a warning, and soft next if she keeps going.
Have you done any articles on how us Alpha 2 guys can narrow our search to more Non-Dom types of women? Both for online or offline dating.No. I don't believe in screening. (Also, Dominants can make great FBs sometimes.)
Why can’t Pink Firefly have MLTRs??That's what defines an OLTR; no MLTRs allowed for either party. If you want multiple MLTRs, you shouldn't have an OLTR and just stick with MLTRs instead. MLTRs are great; I did that for 11 years and was very happy with it.
VictorRevan 2018-05-31 10:34:08
Have you done any articles on how us Alpha 2 guys can narrow our search to more Non-Dom types of women?The point isn't to stay away from dominant women (they can be great FBs), the point is to avoid an OLTR with them. You'll spot dominant women pretty shortly after you start interacting with them. Hint: Does every step of logistics feel like a struggle? Is she making demands or presumptions before you even go on a date? Is she trying hard to lead from the start? Sure, women can test your dominance by resisting a bit, but when it's like pulling teeth just to get her to a quick, "boring", coffeeshop date, then you've got a Dominant woman. This is all subjective, your mileage may vary.
Gang 2018-05-31 11:10:58
The fact that the woman in the OLTR will demand much more rules, even if they are in the acceptable categories as explained in your book, whereas for me, a guy who hates any rules upon myself and don't give a damn about who or how she fucks, feels like I have to be a beta and submit to her crappy rules meanwhile I am not asking anything besides if she want raw with me she just has to get a reliable contraceptive method and make STD tests before we do it and then tell me if she is doing raw with someone else, so that I wear a condom meawhile, until she stops with others and make another test. I don't even care if she has MLTRs, I would just demand so because I trust your judgement that this rule prevents problems in an OLTR. But this discrepancy of wore rules put on me than on her, it feels viscerally infuriating for me. It's like a ticking bomb, fills me up with resentment as basically any kind of rule is more or less directly adding hassle and cockblock. @BD How to deal with this visceral infuriating feeling, and ressentment about having to follow more rules than she does ? It kinda go beyond the scope of woman life, I hated all the meaningless constraints of being an employee before, I live a fully nomadic lifestyle, etc... If it makes sense I have no problem, for instance in Singapore I think it's great that chewing gum is forbidden, I see the reason far that, I wouldn't mind if they forbid smoking outside for the same reason. But in the airport, it drives me kinda nuts that you can't bring any sligtly soft food and water on the flight.
Jack Outside the Box 2018-05-31 11:40:03
Why can’t Pink Firefly have MLTRs?? It seems like a confident comperisive non-jealous Alpha 2.0 would be totally fine with MLTRs.Do you know what an OLTR is? It's an emotionally monogamous + sexually polyamorous relationship.
Blackdragon 2018-05-31 11:59:07
But this discrepancy of wore rules put on me than on her, it feels viscerally infuriating for me.It shouldn't be. I would also recommend not having an OLTR if you feel this way and sticking with MLTRs instead.
@BD How to deal with this visceral infuriating feeling, and ressentment about having to follow more rules than she does ?The goal is to get to the point where you don't feel these feelings in the first place. I certainly don't. I'm too busy working on my Mission and having fun. 1. STOP expecting fairness from women. If you do, you will NEVER be happy. 2. STOP giving a shit. Who cares if you have to follow a few more rules (that shouldn't bother you anyway) than she does? Don't you have more important things in your life to focus on? You should. 3. START focusing on your happiness and goals and Mission rather than the minutia of your relationship.
hollywood 2018-05-31 12:17:56
She gave him a motorboat right then and there,What’s that?
Sykbstd 2018-05-31 12:47:22
I think there might be a new frontier - Alpha 3.0. Alpha 3.0s don’t need any rules for anyone no matter the relationship. He only makes choices for himself. #relationshipanarchy
Blackdragon 2018-05-31 12:53:35
I think there might be a new frontier – Alpha 3.0. Alpha 3.0s don’t need any rules for anyone no matter the relationship. He only makes choices for himself.That's called an MLTR, part of the Alpha 2.0 model.
Jack Outside the Box 2018-05-31 13:56:20
None, except the one about not fucking anyone in your shared social circle (friends, family) without getting permission first (or just not doing it at all).Funny. I have slept with all of my girlfriend's female friends multiple times (and she has a lot of female friends). Sometimes it was in a threesome, other times in the context of group sex or an "adult party," and still at other times it was one-on-one without her.
Blackdragon 2018-05-31 14:28:04
Funny. I have slept with all of my girlfriend’s female friends multiple timesI've done the same with past women, but I ask for permission before doing it. But sure, there are some exceptions to the rule where an MLTR or OLTR girl won't care at all if you bang her friends or family members without permission first. They're the very rare exception to the rule though.
Kaelos 2018-05-31 16:56:26
I’ve done the same with past women, but I ask for permission before doing it.Whoa, I'd love to do this in the future. How did you find out they wanted to hook up with you, as I assume they were subtle about expressing their attraction to you? How did you bring it up with the woman you were with at the time? How did you handle the logistics of getting their contact information and inviting them to your place?
Blackdragon 2018-05-31 17:07:03
How did you find out they wanted to hook up with you, as I assume they were subtle about expressing their attraction to you? How did you bring it up with the woman you were with at the time? How did you handle the logistics of getting their contact information and inviting them to your place?https://blackdragonblog.com/off-topic
jack nimble 2018-05-31 17:51:27
Can you tell us what the rules are that PF has given you?
Jack Outside the Box 2018-05-31 18:47:55
I’ve done the same with past women, but I ask for permission before doing it. But sure, there are some exceptions to the rule where an MLTR or OLTR girl won’t care at all if you bang her friends or family members without permission first. They’re the very rare exception to the rule though.Yeah, in my case, she is the one who insisted on it. She explained that her friends would be very offended if she did not share me with them, especially her best friend, with whom she shares everything (and everyone). A small minority of her friends insist on sleeping with her fuck buddies at least once (tertiaries, though not counting ONSs), a slightly larger percentage want her to share her FWBs (secondaries) only and above. And pretty much all of her friends demand that she share her serious boyfriends. They believe that sharing serious boyfriends strengthens their friendship bond, and it would be a serious betrayal of friendship if she didn't. And of course, they all do the same for her with their boyfriends and partners, even if she doesn't insist upon it, but, as she says, "I won't turn down good dick." The only girl I haven't fucked in her circle is her lesbian FWB, but her best female friend and her had a threesome with the lesbian. This is the same best friend who was the first girl I ever fucked in her circle, back when her and I were still FBs. She said to me, "you have to fuck my best friend, ASAP; she's pissed that I haven't introduced you yet." Interestingly, at the time, her best friend was monogamous with her own boyfriend, except for the "my BFF has a new man" loophole, which her boyfriend reluctantly agreed to (or maybe she just fucked me behind his back, not sure which). Most of her friends are in open or semi-open poly arrangements though, and within her poly circle.
Blackdragon 2018-05-31 19:45:50
Can you tell us what the rules are that PF has given you?No. I'll have a bunch of guys going around thinking or saying that the rules I describe will be standard rules "needed" in a live-in OLTR and they are not. They're a few rules, not too many, little silly things, most of which I would do anyway, all revolving around sex with my FBs.
Yeah, in my case, she is the one who insisted on it.Then you got permission, and are sort of proving my point.
joelsuf 2018-05-31 20:51:01
What’s that?Motorboat = a chick shoving her tits in someone's face.
VictorRevan 2018-06-01 05:41:01
How to deal with this visceral infuriating feeling, and ressentment about having to follow more rules than she does ?1) Stop agreeing to them in the 1st place. 2) If it's reasonable and something you'd do anyway, then agree. 3) Who cares if her list is longer, if they're no big deal. It's not some ego scoreboard. 4) If she's making enough rules to bother you, it's drama, and soft-next her. Hard-next her if she does it enough to piss you off.
jack nimble 2018-06-01 14:18:44
Hmm well, maybe put a post about rules that are acceptable vs. ones that are unacceptable in an OLTR so we have some kind of basis for judging sometime would be cool
AlphaOmega 2018-06-02 01:08:22
Player 2018-06-02 03:15:12
One of the OLTR rules is that the condom is used everytime she has sex with FBs. In that rule she can give oral to side guys without condom and get cum in her mouth,or that rule means that every sexual act irrespective of nature is done with condom?Including oral sex with condom on D?
Alex 2018-06-02 07:36:43
To the guy asking about screening for Dominants, it's usually really obvious from the word go. @Victor Revan summed it up perfectly. All women will test your frame, but generally speaking Submissives will be more than happy to follow your lead, whereas Dominants will constantly try to take the lead. This is especially true before you make a Dominant an FB (1st date, 2nd date). The degree to which she tries to take the lead is usually indicative of the degree of Dominant she is.
Mike Hunter 2018-06-02 10:06:10
The point isn’t to stay away from dominant women (they can be great FBs), the point is to avoid an OLTR with them. You’ll spot dominant women pretty shortly after you start interacting with them. Hint: Does every step of logistics feel like a struggle? Is she making demands or presumptions before you even go on a date? Is she trying hard to lead from the start?Why would you want to put up with that shit though?! I've had women do this before the bang. I just drop them because imo there's much less of a chance that I'll get the bang. Even if I do it's not worth dealing with their bullshit just for some occasional pussy. Huge turnoff for me. But maybe that just comes down to personal preferences.
Blackdragon 2018-06-02 10:20:50
maybe put a post about rules that are acceptable vs. ones that are unacceptable in an OLTR so we have some kind of basis for judging sometime would be coolJust ask yourself this one question: Is this a major compromise to you or not? If it is, don't agree to it. If it's not, go ahead, provided she's not asking for a lot of rules.
Is there an easy way to identify if shes a dominant reliably?A full Dominant will be reasonably easy to identify on the first date. They advertise themselves to the world. She'll be trying to order you around and/or will constantly be strongly suggesting things to do or not do, even if nicely, and getting visibly upset if you don't comply (even if just barely upset). The problem is those hybrids; women with strong Dominant tendencies.
One of the OLTR rules is that the condom is used everytime she has sex with FBs. In that rule she can give oral to side guys without condom and get cum in her mouth,or that rule means that every sexual act irrespective of nature is done with condom?Including oral sex with condom on D?Each OLTR couple needs to make that decision on their own. I want long-term happiness so I personally follow the 2% Rule. I would read this article I wrote about the statistical odds of anyone actually getting an STD from oral alone.
Player 2018-06-02 11:05:15
BD,so you will be comfortable if your main girl goes to her side guy ,suck his dick wihtout a condom and then come home and kisses you,irrespective if she brushes her theet or not?? I mean most guys cant take their own cum in their own mouth,or kiss a girl after they receive blowjob from her,let alone kiss his primary after she sucks other guys dick without condom,due to hard incoded Biological Wiring.Even if you dont get any disease.
AlphaOmega 2018-06-03 01:48:59
The problem is those hybrids; women with strong Dominant tendencies.Yes exactly. That was my point. Sometimes its not clear to me because I usually get a mix of dominant and submissive behavior from a woman.
Blackdragon 2018-06-03 11:40:04
BD,so you will be comfortable if your main girl goes to her side guy ,suck his dick wihtout a condom and then come home and kisses you,irrespective if she brushes her theet or not??Is that what I said? Remember: If you have to go to ridiculous extremes to illustrate your point, you probably have no valid point.
Varoon Rajah 2018-06-03 12:56:56
Hey BD - My friend and I were having a pretty extensive discussion about your "see her once a week" rule for mLTRs. We're actually not really sure what you mean when you say this, and we had three different interpretations we were debating what you meant, and what the implications of each are (I'm going to use the June 2018 calendar as an example to clarify each interpretation): 1. See each mLTR once every calendar week. That means that each mLTR gets one session per calendar week (assuming the week starts on Monday and ends on Sunday), but the days are flexible. For instance, in a three week period, I might see mLTR "Anne" on Monday June 4, then again on Friday June 15, then again on Monday June 18. That's 11 days apart and 3 days apart, respectively, but I'm still seeing her "once a week," or once per calendar week. We figured that this is OK, because since the rule is ultimately in place to protect a girl and prevent her from seeing the relationship as "more than dating" she'll only be impacted if we see her twice within the same calendar week, since most people consider a week as starting on Monday and ending on Sunday. 2. See each mLTR seven days (or more) after you last saw her, regardless of the calendar week. That means that if I saw mLTR "Anne" on Monday June 4, then I'm not allowed to see her until Monday June 11 or later. If our schedules didn't align and I then saw her on Friday June 15 (because she or I am busy, traveling, or have plans before the 15th), then I'm not allowed to see her again until Friday June 22 or later. If our schedules didn't align and I then saw her on Sunday June 24, then I'm not allowed to see her again until Sunday July 1 or later. We figured that because, unless both myself and the girl live the *most* predictable life with no plans for friends, travel, or business ventures, I'd effectively be seeing her every 7-10 days, which is more like an FB, if for some reason her or I could not meet exactly seven days after we last saw each other. 3. See each mLTR once in a seven day period, regardless of the calendar week, and regardless of when I last saw her. Imagine that mLTR "Anne" is going out of town for business from Friday June 1 to Monday June 11, and then I am going out of town for business from Saturday June 23 to Sunday July 1. Under this system, I could plan to see mLTR "Anne" on Tuesday June 12, Friday June 15, and Friday June 23: - Tuesday June 12 falls within a seven day period from Thursday June 7 to Wednesday June 13. - Friday June 15 falls with a seven day period from Thursday June 14 to Wednesday June 20. - Friday June 23 falls with a seven day period from Thursday June 21 to Wednesday June 27. Under this system, there is one week where I'm seeing her twice in the same calendar week, but am still seeing her once within every seven day period. This would only occur in this specific scenario where either the girl or myself are traveling/out of town extensively that month. So, when you say "see an mLTR once a week," which of the above are you referring to? We tried to find the answer searching extensively through your blog, and we could not. Perhaps you can write an article clarifying this?
Blackdragon 2018-06-04 10:15:57
So, when you say “see an mLTR once a week,” which of the above are you referring to?Your item #3.
We tried to find the answer searching extensively through your blog, and we could not. Perhaps you can write an article clarifying this?Nope. I explain that issue in detail in my Open Relationships Manual. As I've always said, the really good stuff you have to pay for.
MICHitaly 2018-06-04 16:54:38
. STOPexpecting fairness from women. If you do, you will NEVER be happy.Lol. If I accept that though, it'll be impossible for me to be honest or respect them. Only FBs then, it's better. (Be assured that I see the reasoning behind your advice, even though you are diplomatically indirect about it :D)