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Is Online Dating Becoming “Impossible?”
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-By Caleb Jones
As I’ve talked about before, all types of game have become more difficult over the last ten years.
Night game guys are complaining that night game is almost impossible now in most major cities since men vastly outnumber women at the typical bars and clubs formerly used for night game pick-up.
Daygame guys have talked about how daygame is much harder today than before, since women are more picky, more savvy to pick-up techniques, and get validation that formerly required real-life men from social media instead.
And yes, online dating has grown more difficult as well. I discussed that five years ago here already; consider this article the latest update to this problem.
Just in the last year and a half, two things have occurred that are of concern:
1. OKCupid radically changed their messaging system and algorithm, essentially (though in many cases, not literally) forcing you to get a mutual match with a woman before you can message her (or you can message her without matching, but the odds are perhaps lower the system will allow your message through; in some regions this is unclear). This essentially makes OKCupid a Bumble variant, which is not good.
2. The insane federal government of the USA passed FOSTA, a law that “holds websites liable for hosting sex trafficking content.” It also "makes it easier for victims of sex trafficking and prosecutors to sue companies that fail to keep exploitative content from their websites.” In reaction, Craigslist, a website I know a some of you have used for online dating, permanently removed its personals section. Sugar daddy dating sites like SeekingArrangement.com are still active, but because of the left-wing’s overreaction against heterosexual sex, their future is in question as well.
In addition to these things, the negative trends affecting night game and daygame are affecting online dating as well. Fewer women are present on “standard” dating sites, flocking to swipe apps like Tinder, sugar daddy sites, and attention-whoring farms like Instagram and Snapchat.
Response rates are also lower. Though to be fair, there hasn't been a huge decline in average response rates between 2013 and 2018. There was certainly a noticeable drop between 2007 and 2013, but since around 2013 the lower response rates seemed to have leveled off, which is one bright spot in the bad news.
So yeah, this is all getting noticeably harder. As I’ve talked about before, it will continue to get harder and harder until someone invents the next new online dating “thing” that is easy. Remember, every new online dating technology goes through the five phases I described here. First it was easy to get laid with online dating. Then it was easy to get laid with MySpace. Then it was easy to get laid with Tinder. Then, if you were older, it was easy to get laid with sugar daddy game. Next it will be easy to get laid with… well, we don’t know what that thing will be yet, nor when it’s coming.
So what do we do until the next thing comes along? Here’s what you do:
1. Ignore all the pussies who say it’s now “impossible” to get laid with online dating. I regularly, as in every week, talk to regular, average-looking men all over the Western world, of all ages and types, who are still getting laid regularly with attractive women using normal online dating. Read that sentence again. Then read it again.
There is a small but vocal group of haters / losers who are screaming at the top of their lungs that it’s now “impossible” to get laid with online dating. This is factually and objectively inaccurate. If, as Blackdragon, I wasn’t hearing from anyone getting laid with online dating (or only getting laid with pay-for-it sugar daddy game) then yeah, I'd be very concerned. I’d report that to you as well. But I’m not seeing that. At least not yet.
Instead, I’m seeing that online game is harder, and requires more time and effort than it did 10 years ago. But it’s nothing new and I’ve been saying that for a long time.
So, step one is to not get caught up with some of the negative hype you might hear. Getting laid with online dating is harder than before. Yep. Getting laid with online dating is not impossible, and anyone who says so is either retarded or has an agenda.
2. Do everything correctly. Don’t “wing it.” Because online dating is harder, the margin for error is much lower. This means that if you want to make online dating work for you, you must do everything right, and I mean everything. You must take the time to sit down, map out a very specific plan and execute only systems that are proven to work. You can’t wing it.
I am still shocked on a regular basis to see guys just snap a typical picture with their phone, throw it up on Tinder or Bumble or OKCupid, then get pissed off when they get no results. Really? Really, you idiots? You really think that’s going to work in 2018? Are you actually surprised that doesn’t work?
Argentina I’ve mentioned Argentina many times on my blogs. It’s a crazy-but-super-fun place. But if you’re an Alpha Male 2.0, you have a location independent outcome and you’re making money from outside Argentina. I certainly would — I wouldn’t rely on income from inside Argentina with their shitty currency. But with income from outside the country, you could take advantage of their much lower cost of living. Buenos Aires is an amazing city. It’s a huge New York-size city, and the women are cute (thought not amazing). Argentina is a great place. Again, it’s a little insane, so if you’re younger (under 35 or so), it’s awesome. It’s almost got an old European vibe to it. Also, if you live there for a while, you can possibly get an Argentinian passport, too. Win.
Georgia For you Americans, I’m not talking about the state of Georgia — I’m talking about the country Georgia, the former Soviet republic. It’s in this strange little part of the world where it’s not quite Europe; it’s so far east of Europe that I don’t consider it a European country, but that’s a grey area. I wouldn’t move to anywhere in Europe. Eastern Europe won’t go down as hard as Western Europe; that’s a big topic for another time, but yes, Europe is on its way down. Georgia is one of the few former Soviet republics that is doing most things correctly. They’re embracing capitalism and opening themselves up to trade, free markets, and low taxes, and it’s a pro-business environment. It’s a really good place to base your international business. The crime rates are also the among the lowest in the entire world; Tbilisi is sometimes rated as the world's safest city. Disadvantages: The capital city, Tbilisi, is a very small town. If you’re looking for a giant, bustling city, Tbilisi may not do it for you. Also, one criterion I have for possibly moving to a particular country is that it shouldn’t border a place that’s prone to war and armed conflict. It’s sad, but Georgia borders a country called Russia, which is run by a dictator who likes to invade other countries. I don’t necessarily think Russia will invade Georgia, I’m just giving you the facts I have. Georgia is awesome for an Alpha Male 2.0, especially if you want to stay near Europe or have a quasi-European lifestyle.
Panama Panama is my favorite Central American country by far. It’s like a little Hong Kong in the middle of Central America. Panama City is fun, and the women are very hot and nice. Panama borders Colombia; you can basically drive between the two at your leisure, so a lot of Colombian women spend time in Panama. If Colombia is a little too rough for you, or if you have a higher income and like a nicer environment, Panama City is the best of all worlds. It’s a very pro-American place; one of the reasons there’s so much prosperity is that there’s a lot of American money down there. They have a very strong economy, and they’re friendly to foreigners. On the downside, it gets a little hot and humid, but not too bad. The women aren’t quite as hot as they are in many South American countries — but they’re still hot. Panama is a great place for women, dating, and business. It’s almost a miniature version of Colombia. It’s not going to see crazy growth like Colombia, because like Hong Kong, it’s already arrived. But it will do just fine. I love Panama. Highly recommended.
Take the time (and a little money) to do everything correctly, or else stay home and don’t bother. Otherwise you’re just wasting your time.
I’ve said from day one that you always need to be on at least three dating sites/apps. Whenever I do normal online dating, I am never on less than three sites/apps. Sometimes I’ve been on five or more.
Today, I’ve increased that to say “be on as many sites/apps applicable to your area as you can.” So when a guy asks me, “Hey BD, should I use Hitch?” (or whatever other site/app they’re asking about), I just say “YES!”
Tinder, Bumble, OKC, Hinge, Hitch, Badoo, POF, Zoosk, Christian Mingle, Happn, Coffee Meets Bagel, Match, Down, Blendr, whatever. Go on every dating site/app in your region that applies to your age and dating goals. The only time you should pass is if the site/app is not applicable to your situation. (For example, if you’re an older guy going after younger women, don’t use Tinder. If you’re out to just get laid and don’t want relationships, don’t use Match.) Other than that, use everything you possibly can, as many as you can. Go crazy. Do not rely on just one or two apps (unless you’re doing pay-for-it sugar daddy game and that’s all you want to do).
4. If you’re a younger guy, consider social media game to supplement your online dating. More and more guys are starting to use Instagram as a dating site, and making it work (in that they're actually getting laid). I’ve never done this, so I can’t advise you on how to do it beyond the basics (that I talk about in my online dating manual), but I know it’s being done more and more. I’ve also heard about guys do this over Snapchat too. (Perhaps someday I’ll co-write and/or publish a book with some Instagram/Snapchat game gurus on how to do this.)
5. If you’re an older guy, consider sugar daddy game to supplement your online dating. If you’re over the age of 35 and you make the Alpha 2.0 minimum income of $75,000 per year or more, consider sugar daddy game as a supplement to your online dating. As I talk about in my dating manual, some forms of sugar daddy game can cost money, but it’s a lightning fast way to have sex with really hot, younger babes.
If you have more game or are better-looking, you can do don’t-pay sugar daddy game where you don’t pay the girls. If you have less game, you can do pay-for-it game if you just want to get from zero to the sex as fast as possible.
Like with Instagram game, I’m not suggesting you completely replace online dating with sugar daddy game (unless you want to). I’m saying you can use it to supplement your online dating to round out the results. Today, at age 46, I’m doing about 70% sugar daddy game (both kinds) and 30% normal online dating. At some point I’ll just move to 100% sugar daddy game, but I’ve met both of the requirements for this a long time ago.
For those of you who are in an OLTR or OLTR Marriage, this is yet another motivation to seriously look at sugar daddy game, for two reasons. One, unlike girls on normal dating sites/apps, the hotties on sugar daddy sites don’t care at all if you’re with a girlfriend or wife (and many actually prefer it, since most of these women have boyfriends themselves). Two, your OLTR will likely feel better about it since she will believe (whether rightly or wrongly doesn’t matter) that the only reason these women are having sex with you is because they’re getting paid (or think they might), which reduces both drama and jealousy on her part. It kills two important OLTR birds with one stone.
6. Maximize your physical appearance. I know you already know that, but you actually need to DO it you lazy asshole! I realize this is obvious, but I have to state this because so many of you are not fucking doing this. Way too many of you are putting up online pics and/or going out on dates when your hair looks like shit, your clothes look like shit, your skin looks like shit, and in some cases, your body looks like shit (and you’re dressing in a way that exacerbates your physical negatives, which is stupid).
You have no right to complain online dating or real-life game doesn’t work if you aren’t taking the necessary time and effort to do it correctly.
I expect the difficulties with all game (online, night, and day) to grow over the next few years. The men who will be smacked around by this and suffer the most are the men who are today just focused on getting laid, one night stands or similar, or very short-term relationships.
The men who take my advice, take a longer-term and more strategic view of this, and build rosters will have no problem whatsoever in the coming years. You’ll have a constant stream of returning women and will rarely (if ever) need to go back to the clubs, bars, malls, and yes, dating sites/apps to get new ones. While everyone is bitching about how game is getting too hard, you’ll be sitting pretty. Never forget that!
So that’s it. Yes, online dating is harder now. Yes, it will continue to grow harder in the short-term future until the next easy thing comes along. That’s not an excuse. It still works, and it can still work for you if you do the correct things.
Now stop complaining and get to work.
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Alex 2018-06-18 05:39:20
Funnily enough, I've always had a lot of success with Tinder, and continue to do so. But the problem I have (in the UK, at least) is that pretty much all the young women here watch some stupid program called "Love Island". It's a love/romance program where multiple partners are stuck on an island together. In this program, all of the women are refusing and delaying sex, and even worse - using it as a weapon against the guys in there. I believe this acts as a form Societal Programming that encourages younger women to delay sex, and it seems to be a trend that's getting worse. Has anyone else noticed this?
Zan 2018-06-18 05:46:23
Dating in America appears to be a risky proposition, no matter what you do or don't do...the latest example...Chris Hardwick. https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/chris-hardwick-fallout-outlets-distancing-themselves-abuse-accusation-145149111.html and here's her...umm, "story" https://medium.com/@skydart/rose-colored-glasses-6be0594970ca Just wondering if you have any thoughts about men Dating American women in this #MeToo-era? In this #MeToo-era... Is American women the new fruit of the "Fruit of the poisonous tree" ?
Antekirtt 2018-06-18 05:54:35
Yeah, the OkCupid change at the end of 2017 was a big bummer. There's one thing I don't get though: how the fuck are the girls getting laid if online dating has become so hard? If it's "hard", that's another way to say "the girls are picking very few guys, overall". It makes me wonder if this is fully explained just by the fact young women are vastly outnumbered by the wider age range of guys going after them (doubt it: it can't be much worse than 5:1 or 10:1 at most), or girls are just not getting laid much these days, or there's a new and big niche other than online dating.
FD 2018-06-18 06:03:48
I totally saw my response rate drop in the past few months/years, despite using your techniques. Not that it does not work anymore, but it's clearly getting way more difficult in my area (I need to send about 50% more openers for the same end results). Regarding your online dating book and photos : do you still advise to only have 3 pictures? I mean, in this day and age, where people take and share more and more pictures of themselves, isn't showing only 3 photos raising a few red flags? I know your reasons for this low number of photos, but I'm wondering if it's not starting to become counterproductive. Tinder and other datings websites / apps give the possibility to link to your instagram account on top of your main profile pictures, do you think this is the correct way to tackle this problem (provided your instagram account's content is okay, obviously)?
El Barto 2018-06-18 06:09:42
In this program, all of the women are refusing and delaying sex, and even worse – using it as a weapon against the guys in there. I believe this acts as a form Societal Programming that encourages younger women to delay sex, and it seems to be a trend that’s getting worse. Has anyone else noticed this?It's also a hit over here (Holland), but I'm not worried about the phenomon. Well, at least it having any impact for me personally. For every female who apparently wants to delay sex there are many who just love sex. If you got the right frame and mindset there's nothing to worry about.
CrocodileMan 2018-06-18 06:17:33
#7 is spot on! I have been doing this and in the past I would hate adding them to my facebook page. Now, instead, I actually use it to my advantage. It helps build trust over time I think. Now, when someone dings me via the apps, I just talk quickly, ask for facebook page, add them, then kinda slowly ask them out maybe versus it being too fast or looking desperate lol. Oh and Bumble is awesome so far in just the 1 week I have been on it. Their concept (letting females be more in control) rocks! In regards to offline cold approach game, the only success I have had there is if I act like I saw her on match dot com and then be like, "oh never mind, I thought you were a lady that I met on Match a few months ago. you look just like her! Do you have a twin somewhere? Are you on Match too?". Since people are so anti-social today and they will say hi to a complete stranger online and this same guy could be living on the same street as them or apartment complex and they won't say anything! It's nuts how weird we are becoming.
Pancake Mouse 2018-06-18 06:35:01
But the problem I have (in the UK, at least) is that pretty much all the young women here watch some stupid program called “Love Island”. It’s a love/romance program where multiple partners are stuck on an island together. ... I believe this acts as a form Societal Programming that encourages younger women to delay sex, and it seems to be a trend that’s getting worse.This has nothing to do with Love Island, and you have no facts to back up this "trend" that's getting worse.
In this #MeToo-era… Is American women the new fruit of the “Fruit of the poisonous tree” ?No. 2% rule. But go ahead, continue bitching and moaning, and guys like me will be fucking all the women you're not fucking.
how the fuck are the girls getting laid if online dating has become so hard? If it’s “hard”, that’s another way to say “the girls are picking very few guys, overall”Girls are still getting laid. They're just getting laid with more attractive guys. Every Chad in the universe is on Tinder these days. When people say it's getting "hard", they mean it's getting hard for the average-SMV or below average-SMV guy. Above average SMV guys aren't complaining.
I totally saw my response rate drop in the past few months/years, despite using your techniques. Not that it does not work anymore, but it’s clearly getting way more difficult in my area (I need to send about 50% more openers for the same end results).Messaging sites are losing users by the droves to swipe apps like Tinder and Bumble. If you're not on the latter, you're missing out.
Mike 2018-06-18 07:16:45
Weird, I've had the exact opposite experience. Back in 2013-2014, I was on match.com, okcupid, and eharmony. They would 'work' every now and then, but then I'd run out of attractive women, and I'd have to do day/night game to supplement. Nowadays I'm on Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, match.com, and okcupid. Between all of them, I get enough dates where I would never need to do real game if I didn't enjoy it. So even if the response rates have decreased, it's more than offset by the larger number of women on all the apps. App/online dating has truly become mainstream.
Mountain Westerner 2018-06-18 08:16:48
Just drop right here.
"You must take the time to sit down, map out a very specific plan and execute only systems that are proven to work. You can’t wing it."That is the trick, the very simple trick, know your market and do your work. Research and planning is work, simply stop the lazy! Eventually you may even end up in an unusual part of the “dating market” I had to change, well more evolve when I started getting a handle on what position I hold in the “dating market” in regards to what I wanted and where exactly I fit. I ended up finding out that I am an odd bird that attracts a very specific target market and due to rarity I have focused and like BD always building a larger and larger “roster” being organized and methodical always wins.
John 2018-06-18 08:31:44
It is getting harder and harder. Just over the last year. But I still manage to get a 4-5 dates lined up the first couple weeks and get a new woman every month or so. On instragram.. guys are using it to get laid for sure. Im too old for that but I know a lot of guys who use it successfully. Btw, Lots of models on there having sex for money. Perfect women.
CTV 2018-06-18 08:39:54
No it's not impossible, whoever says that is Stupid.. But yes it is tougher that say 2009-2010! Yes Social Media can most def help you here, especially if you're a Life Of the Party Guy, than it is most def going to help, for many online dating sites link to your social media.. I only say be careful cause if you're a Life of the Party Guy is that your partying, drugs, club hookups and such may attract women who just want to part of your Fun Club (Alan Roger Currie word) and you make even be popular with girls, taking pix with em and look like a big shot on FB/Instagram, but in practice you're not even Fucking em or if you do it's after you've spent a lifetime of time, a fortune on facilitating that party environment.. Caleb you had an Article similar to what I'm getting at here https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/01/28/betas-who-pretend-to-be-alphas/ The worst part is these guys get the feedback and feel like their badass and popular with girls, but for ALL THE WRONG REASONS. It's seriously like the Emperors New Clothes when you actually catch on to it.. It's sad.. Unless as a man you like being involved in gossip and girly shit.. However I'm a TOH Guy so I just Prefer Day/Night Game. But that's just me..
John 2018-06-18 08:42:59
In regards to offline cold approach game, the only success I have had there is if I act like I saw her on match dot com and then be like, “oh never mind, I thought you were a lady that I met on Match a few months ago. you look just like her! Do you have a twin somewhere? Are you on Match too?”. Since people are so anti-social today and they will say hi to a complete stranger online and this same guy could be living on the same street as them or apartment complex and they won’t say anything! It’s nuts how weird we are becoming.lol, I've done the same thing on Facebook. Once with "I saw you on tinder" and once with match. Got the tinder girl to meet and come to my house afterwards. Helps on Facebook if you have common friends.
uk_player 2018-06-18 08:49:40
Girls are still getting laid. They’re just getting laid with more attractive guys. Every Chad in the universe is on Tinder these days. When people say it’s getting “hard”, they mean it’s getting hard for the average-SMV or below average-SMV guy. Above average SMV guys aren’t complaining. This is very true. I'm just average in the looks and height front so I rarely get matches on dating apps. Unless you are top 5% in the looks department it will be very difficult to get young/hot women online hence the reason why I have to use daygame and spend all my holidays abroad in countries were my SMV is higher just by being a westerner. daygame is even harder now because the girls knows that she can just go onto an app and find the chad.
NumbersGameLife 2018-06-18 08:59:06
The reason online dating is getting harder for everyone is because of the new "Pay To Win" business model that every dating app (and gaming app) is using today. What this means is that the dating apps are free to play, but they require you to pay money in order to be competitive. Tinder does this with the launch of Tinder Plus, Tinder Gold, and Boosts. Bumble does this as well. The more you pay, the more girls see your profile. The less you pay, the less girls will see your profile. POF does the same thing now as well. If you pay money, your profile gets shown more and your messages stay at the top of the girl's inbox. This creates on arms race between the men on the dating app. So the more you pay, the more advantages you get over the competition, the more success you have on the app, and the more you get laid. It's brilliant as a money making scheme. Before the dating apps went "Pay to Win", I could get laid with hot chicks consistently, with little time, energy, or money used. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. It's at a point now that if you don't pay money, online is less efficient than daygame.
CTV 2018-06-18 09:02:50
This actually maybe a rare occasion where SMV may actually be a Big Deal. Even if you don't plan on employing your SMV (Resources like money, connections, promising commitment when you're from an wealthy family and have inheritance, ETC.) or just having a high education from an Ivy League University, even just your Height.. This type of shit listed as Pedigree info can help you get/secure the date to facilitate employing your game getting laid.. Or just socially a big shot/local celeb in your area... Or if you have none of this shit you can FAKE IT and still get laid
John 2018-06-18 09:07:54
Before the dating apps went “Pay to Win”, I could get laid with hot chicks consistently, with little time, energy, or money used. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. It’s at a point now that if you don’t pay money, online is less efficient than daygame.Really good point. I have used the highlight on match and it was strange how many more views, likes, and messages I received.
paternitytester 2018-06-18 09:41:54
I ended up finding out that I am an odd bird that attracts a very specific target market and due to rarity I have focused and like BD always building a larger and larger “roster” being organized and methodical always wins.Curious, in what ways you're an oddbird?
Harry Flashman 2018-06-18 09:56:54
When I got divorced, I started with on line dating, like most guys. I hit all the usual sites and apps. Had a lot of fun, mostly at first. That 2013 drop off was real. But, it just got boring. Swiping, messaging, profiles, searches, replies, texting, lots and lots of predictable first dates. Just. Freaking. Boring. For me, I found much more success by stepping away from the keyboard and going out and meeting actual, human women in the flesh. It was refreshing to have face to face conversations with women I knew I found attractive, because they were standing in front of me. I could ask for her number if I wanted to follow-up, but otherwise the communication was in person. This doesn’t mean I solely used night game. In fact, I was never a big club fan. Social circle game, going out and doing activities, simply interacting socially was key for me. Again, this worked for me, and maybe it’s not for everyone. Does anyone else simply get bored on line dating?
Blackdragon 2018-06-18 10:03:43
Dating in America appears to be a risky proposition, no matter what you do or don’t doIncorrect. There is no risk to the typical man.
…the latest example…Chris Hardwick.You are not a rich or famous public figure. You'll be fine.
Just wondering if you have any thoughts about men Dating American women in this #MeToo-era?Completely ignore it, and read up on the 2% Rule, and if you're still terrified, read this.
Regarding your online dating book and photos : do you still advise to only have 3 pictures?Yes, unless you are unusually good-looking.
I mean, in this day and age, where people take and share more and more pictures of themselves, isn’t showing only 3 photos raising a few red flags?Unlikely, but even if it's true, that's still better than showing a bunch of photos where she can find one little thing she doesn't like and then bypass your profile.
Tinder and other datings websites / apps give the possibility to link to your instagram account on top of your main profile pictures, do you think this is the correct way to tackle this problem (provided your instagram account’s content is okay, obviously)?Unless you are usually good-looking, no. Those features are there for women to attention whore, not for men to get laid.
Nowadays I’m on Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, match.com, and okcupid. Between all of them, I get enough dates where I would never need to do real game if I didn’t enjoy it.Correct. A lot of men complaining about this stuff are guys who are just using one or two sites/apps. One or two isn't enough.
Calahan 2018-06-18 10:43:26
So why are all types of game getting more and more difficult? In an older post you had attributed this to the fact the West is leaning left wing. But why does left wing have to do anything with it?
CTV 2018-06-18 10:44:27
Caleb is right on the money here. You really do have use all the sites: - Bumble -Tinder -OKC -POF And after that find some more that may just pertain to you, there's literally 100's if not 1000's of specific ones like Asian Dating, Fit peoples dating, ETC. BONUS ONE: Even if you're not into BDSM/Swinger Lifestyle I recommend Fetlife. You can designate yourself even as Vanilla to be clear about it. It will really help the more Conservative guys to get their OBD BLOWN THE FUCK AWAY FOR GOOD and it can really help the Beta/Timid guys FINALLY REALIZE when you fill out your profile and such that you really do have to decide what kind of guy you want to be and then adopt those characteristics because here you can see it PLAIN AS DAY that there are guys who are fucking the EXACT SAME WOMEN that people claim are only attainable if you take em on dates/spend a bunch of cash are FUCKING OTHER DUDES FOR FREE/LITTLE TO NO FACE TIME. You really can see it here that how you present yourself dictates how you'll be treated. If you designate yourself as a Cuckold, guess what? You'll have women hitting you up and treating you as such. If you present yourself as a BULL guess what? You'll have women who have beta BF/Husbands hitting you up to fuck them while their committed monogamous partner is gladly fitting the bill while being dissed to their face. Present yourself as a Daddy Dom and you'll have VYW getting at you calling you Daddy and such. You present yourself as SUB and you'll have DOMINANT WOMEN talking to you like their your overbearing mother and treating you as such. And this is determined by the way out fill out your profile, your pictures.. ETC Your Presentation (YOUR EFA). This site is EFA on another level. Now am I saying do all that? NO, by all means do what YOU'RE INTO. Nobody is judging you if you're LGBT, a sub, or if you and your Wife/OLTR like to fuck other people in front of each other. If you're a sub into Dominant Women for that type of play than go for it (Just have other FB's, MLTR's ETC) This site really helps me realize A LOT of stuff I read from Blackdragon and Alan Roger Currie really does play out and its up to you to decide which guy you want to be and BE IT, because thats how women will treat you.. Do you want to be a typical married guy (Beta/Alpha 1.0) with their sets of problems and such? THEN you can carry this over to how you conduct yourself in real life. In our case Alpha 2.0.. I seriously recommend this, it will give you new insight into women.
mark 2018-06-18 10:49:36
Great article as always. However, there are so many new sugar daddy/sugar baby site. Which ones are legit and which are good? I have read your manual. However, it is unclear which of those pay for play sites are best. Can you provide an update list? Thanks,
CTV 2018-06-18 11:04:19
Fetlife.. This is a completely different animal than any other dating site, it's really more of a Social Network.. If you have a problem with OBD.. Conservatives this is for you. It'll turn your reality upside down and give a serious wake up call on Female behavior.
Eugene 2018-06-18 11:54:32
I have a lot to write about this topic but ... One thing I'll say for now is - although minor I'm not in line with the point about not tying your instagram account to your tinder. This has DEFINITELY increased results for me , and others that have done the same. No doubt girls use this to attention whore it up and build IG followers, but, and I never actually thought this would be the case until I saw the increases, it's an extra layer to help you stand out in a crowded see of 50-100 matches if she's an attractive girl. What BD describes IMO sounds like it makes sense in theory but not in practice. The fact is these girls have a bajillion matches, and everyone knows that just because you match doesn't mean that she'll even respond or won't drop off quickly. Having an IG account shows more that you're a real person and helps her feel more comfortable about meeting provided your pics don't absolutely suck. Remember that what you're dealing with here is tons of guys that are looking for quick sex so women are more and more sensitive to perceived "ONS" vibes from guys on there. There's also a reason why almost every other girl on there on their profile has some version of "if you're looking for sex, swipe left" or something like that. Does that mean they won't do it on the first or second date? Of course not. It just means that if they heavily pick up on these vibes early on, they are out. Is there a chance a girl might find something she doesn't like in your IG? Sure ... but my experience has been the opposite. The other thing BD is that unless I'm remembering this wrong, this is basically a similar version of your own strategy where you recommend to FB friend girls after you've already setup a date on a dating site so they can see more about you and get more warmed up to you before the date. (I'm 99% sure I read that from your book). It's just yet another tool to "stand out" from the guys and warm her up a bit more.
Tom Brown BF 2018-06-18 12:13:51
Agreed... it's funny because I emailed a question related to this a month... but since then I read your book, and deveoured AND applied so many principles that I realize it's not impossible. In fact online dating has always been easy for me (maybe since I'm more sigma than beta?). But I stopped doing it since I was focused on my heatlth, then not knowing that my sexual drive is an obvious part of my heatlh. Anyway according to a radio/podcast episode I heard you on, I realize my success rates were above average... BUT I wasn't living an AM2.0 lifestlye, didn't know I could back then. So I was getting laid , vetting women, and eventually building relationships. I celebrated how awesome I was that way, but now that I see what I could have changed and even add my own unique techniques, I can really have a lot of fun. As of this week I am diving into my own approach again. See how that goes for 30 days with what I already know about women from UNchained Men... Then in 30 days... buy, read, and apply your ONline Dating book materials. So everyone take it from me... that even with the changes in setups across the board... there are so few of US (non-needy, low-drama, playful, masculine, bold, independent) Alphas that numbers are still in their favor. Also... my favorite thought... it's not that women on these sites aren't into guys... it's that they haven't dated YOU yet and don't know what they're missing yet. SOooo give em a taste. Better yet precisely apply what you learn here and give them the FULL TASTE. No more complaining Big Brother Tom says Alpha Up.
Mike Hunter 2018-06-18 12:30:12
Today, at age 46, I’m doing about 70% sugar daddy game (both kinds) and 30% normal online dating.What is your breakdown between real sugar daddy notches and salt daddy (where you don't pay them) notches? Have you noticed a difference between return rates of sugar babies vs women from regular dating sites?
Callahan 2018-06-18 13:06:26
It would be really awesome if there was a community (online or not, I don't care) just like BDSM that would be only for men and women looking for casual sex. Any man with any woman could fuck there with no to little face time, for free, with all the necessary precautions and no strings attached. Anyone who goes there looking for more than sex, such as commitment, dating, chit chat etc, should be expelled for good. How difficult can it be? The thing is even there was such a community, very few women would opt in and only the unattractive ones.
Blackdragon 2018-06-18 13:27:36
What is your breakdown between real sugar daddy notches and salt daddy (where you don’t pay them) notches?Right now about 80/20 or 90/10 sugar/salt. I don't see the point of salt daddy game when you're still doing normal online game, which I am. When I go to 100% sugar daddy game I'll do more salt stuff.
Have you noticed a difference between return rates of sugar babies vs women from regular dating sites?Yes. Return rates for pay-for-it sugar babies is a little higher (since they're getting paid). Not by a lot though.
Pancake Mouse 2018-06-18 16:02:59
It would be really awesome if there was a community (online or not, I don’t care) just like BDSM that would be only for men and women looking for casual sex.Tinder was like this in 2012 and 2013.
Chris 2018-06-18 17:27:32
This article has stirred up something that I've been thinking about for awhile now... and I can't believe I'm saying this but: I can see where Incels might get there resentment from... see, it doesn't feel good to "put yourself out there" and get absolutely nothing in return. I've been on Plenty of Fish for awhile now, and can barely ever get a god damn response let alone dates/sex and it's really starting to piss me off and I don't know how to let go of this anger (and before you ask: yes I live in a good sized city and yes I used my best pictures possible). When a guy is trying his best to change results but receives horseshit in return, it will drive him mad!! Its like I want to ask these women on these sites: "just what in the hell type guy are you actually looking for?!" I'm beginning to wonder if a guy with their standards from their entitlement actually exists in real life since they're not even giving guys a chance
Blackdragon 2018-06-18 17:32:29
When a guy is trying his best to change results but receives horseshit in return, it will drive him mad!!Because you're not trying your best. You're only using one dating site (POF) and I bet your photos suck (standard selfies with a phone). Both no no's.
Mike Hunter 2018-06-18 17:44:35
Do the girls you get using salt daddy game disappear pretty fast once they realize that you aren't going to pay them? Do they ever return after a LSNFTE?
Chris 2018-06-18 17:49:36
Not true BD, I actually hired an image consultant/photographer and a good amount of money to come up with the best pictures he could and it hasn't done anything. Also, I pay for the upgraded versions of the sites...Also, I am on 4 different sites but Plenty of Fish is the main one since it has the most amount of people in my area. Again, I've put so much effort into this but I swear it feels like I'm talking to brick walls.
CrocodileMan 2018-06-18 17:59:07
@Blackdragon Ok, I have to seriously give it up to you sir. I just recently broke up w my GF of 17 months and implemented your stuff last 2-3 weeks using ONLY Bumble, Facebook Social Singles Groups and Offline game. I made a spreadsheet and began adding them to my facebook account and then I would go to their Fbook page and random invite their friends to be my Fbook friend as well so it made them fight over me kinda lol. I would then kinda ignore them and tease them and act like I was in no hurry and just really chill. I would post comments on the blogs too and within weeks, everyone knew me as like the Alpha male because all the other men are 70% beta or players. I was in this middle spot that they had never seen before. So it was new and intriguing to them I think idk? Anyways, last weekend I had 4 dates, sex 1. Monday (today), 1 date and we made out and probably sex Wednesday and she is so freaking hot!! I have 4 more dates with some fairly hot ladies all this week/weekend and possibly 2 or 3 more are coming!! UGH! Help!! (so I had to pause my action plan it was working so well. idk if you recommend this or not but not sure what else to do?) I am a marketing dude but shit I did not expect I would have this much success so fast! So, now I am having a hard time keeping up with them all and making sure I do not loose focus on my business stuff too. Do you have any tips to help the guys that ARE VERY successful using your methods and strategies? Almost too successful lol. This shit is about to get crazy lol...and fun =)
comp eliminator 2018-06-18 18:14:36
what a huge time sucking waste of time. i would rather pay a pro or go without. to each his own but online dating is about as much fun as studying tax laws with the added aggravation of fickle women thrown in for even more fun.
GoodSense3 2018-06-18 18:17:57
BD don't you think dating coaches like u and Roger Allen Currie are mainly successful because of the puritan culture and feminist laws of The U.S lol? If you all were trying to coach in most other countries where men more so brag about how cool the women are like in brazil, colombia, dominican republic, mexico etc you all would not be able to hardly generate any business from being a dating coach right? I hardly ever hear men brag about U.S women especially men that travel to different countries often Lol. Also this me too culture push in the USA is also making U.S women seem even wacker right lol?
Blackdragon 2018-06-18 18:36:44
Do the girls you get using salt daddy game disappear pretty fast once they realize that you aren’t going to pay them?Often, yes. I've said that before.
Do they ever return after a LSNFTE?Yes.
Not true BD, I actually hired an image consultant/photographer and a good amount of money to come up with the best pictures he could and it hasn’t done anything. Also, I pay for the upgraded versions of the sites…Also, I am on 4 different sites but Plenty of Fish is the main one since it has the most amount of people in my area.Okay, then I take back what I said.
Again, I’ve put so much effort into this but I swear it feels like I’m talking to brick walls.As I've said before, if you've sent hundreds of openers (and/or thousands of swipes) with good photos on multiple sites and you're literally getting nothing, then something is very wrong. I just don't know what that is. You're doing something wrong, or there's more to your story, or you live in a really hard city like San Francisco, etc.
BD don’t you think dating coaches like u and Roger Allen Currie are mainly successful because of the puritan culture and feminist laws of The U.S lol?Change the "The U.S." to "most of the Western world," and yes.
If you all were trying to coach in most other countries where men more so brag about how cool the women are like in brazil, colombia, dominican republic, mexico etc you all would not be able to hardly generate any business from being a dating coach right?You are correct in that my dating advice is not quite as necessary in Latin cultures where women have (generally) lower ASD and men are (generally) more Alpha (1.0). My relationship, lifestyle, and business advice still applies though. Remember, I don't just talk about getting laid.
T 2018-06-18 19:29:52
I've been spending a couple months in China, and it's amazing how much easier online dating is here than in the US. In the US I'm on 6 sites and have to work to just get a couple dates with moderately attractive women, and even then half the time they show up looking fatter than their pictures or don't show up at all. In China I literally have more matches, and girls messaging me first, then I could possibly date. Everything else about living in China sucks, but this almost makes it all worth it. That being said, your books are worth every single cent, and like you said in your post even going slightly off can make things much harder. At one point I was getting to the point where I was asking them out, and they'd say yes, but then disappear as we were making plans. So I reviewed that chapter in the online dating book and made some slight adjustments and suddenly that problem disappeared.
DonQuibollox 2018-06-18 19:35:37
@CTV Two problems I've noticed with Fetlife: 1. It's a haven for fat/ugly hogs. 2. They purposely don't allow a geographical search because that would make it a "meat market" (their words). This severely impedes finding hot young things who live close by.
Pancake Mouse 2018-06-18 19:55:30
They purposely don’t allow a geographical search because that would make it a “meat market” (their words). This severely impedes finding hot young things who live close by.Geographical search is very easy. You can browse profiles in your city.
CTV 2018-06-18 21:05:40
@DonQuibilox I know what you mean. Yes there are fat hogs on it. I live in California.. not too far from LA, SD, OC, Palm Springs, Vegas or Havasu so the concentration of good looking women in my part of the Union. I can see where geographically you can be fucked on that part even if they had a georphical search. Because I’m priviallaged to grow up in So Cal with how many hot women are here just by leaving the house. and yea the ONLY thing they don’t have is a Geogrpical Search because they want it to be a Social Network/ Community.
prepped 2018-06-18 21:53:05
@Blackdragon Based on your reports and feedback from followers in the field, are there countries were online game in more in it's early phases and/or where online dating is working better than here in the US, specifically for men over 40 and 50?
marty 2018-06-18 22:27:53
I’ve been spending a couple months in China, and it’s amazing how much easier online dating is here than in the US.Which apps etc are you using in China. I'm about to go to Shanghai and might end up living there soon as well.
Tom 2018-06-18 22:55:40
if u have good looks, good picture (shows you travel) or having instagram showing u snap pictures with bunch of hot girls. This shit will get u laid 80% of the time (or at least having pre selection), doing solely daygame has an disadvantage because u may DHV but without concrete evidence (ie pictures), the girl may not choose to believe u.
David 2018-06-18 22:58:53
I just canceled all of my dating site pro subscriptions and signed up at seeking arrangement. Most of the girls i chat with want money for sex on the first day, or hope that im a guy who will pay them to chat with me. I met up with one chick but she was fat and ugly. I wouldnt touch her. She screamed at me in public for wasting her time so i handed her some cash and left. Might as well just use an escort agency where the women are professional and regulated by a "boss." Unless you meet a girl who just turned 18 and truly has never done it before, or pay thousands per month for exclusivity, they are no different than hookers. I guess i thought they'd want some gifts and fancy dates lol.
Greg 2018-06-18 23:48:48
As many of you recommend Instagram, let me share that this is my playground, too. I have invested in an optimal profile with LOTS of professional pictures, high quality photo with my 16 Mpixel camera, shirtless 6-pack pics and still I get 1 date out of 100-200 openers I send to my followers. Needless to say that I get dozens of flakes, "I don't talk to/ date strangers" lines and HUGE ASD on my dates. About the ASD, I know BD suggests no kids on a first date etc, but I am really in no mood to follow a 2-dates system, since I just want to get laid and most girls come out to be 6s and 7s in real life to spend any more time on them, before I make a move. Unfortunately online dating in not so popular in my country, so I am stuck with Insta. Tinder, the most popular app here, does not work for me anymore and Badoo that used to give results is now super expensive and useless.
Greg 2018-06-19 00:01:35
*kiss, not kids.
CTV 2018-06-19 01:08:05
@Greg See that's another point.. The Market is Saturated now.. So even now the fact that Hot Women 8-10's can have so many dudes coming at em them with nearly maxed out SMV and Looks and still blow them off cause it's a dime a dozen and they've got 100's of dudes in their DM's. Now am I saying stop online dating? NO. But like in Caleb's online dating book it would be a good use of your time to program a Macro with an opener to send out and put that motherfucker on autopilot lol. It needs to be attacked on Bumble. Tinder, OKC, POF, and the numerous new apps. AND DON'T fall into the play for play trap too much. I'd say maybe on OKC it's cool cause it gives you better search features, but not all of them are worth it so Do your homework. Yea it is tougher like Caleb was saying so don't fuckin wing it.. Consult the fucking Pro's on this.. With that being said if you have a roster built up from the days when Online Dating was easier than that's awesome, but I'd say soon it might turn from pay to upgrade.. to pay your don't play at all.. The Free days maybe numbered. In the I don't get upset, because I'm a TOH guy so I do sleep on it, but if you're a POS guy and you've got busy work week yea your better get the fuck on it. However with that being said this can be Really Good/Really Bad for in person Day/Night Game. In one way there will be women especially younger women who might be a little less attuned to in person attention who might get creeped out/uncomfortable.. BUT AT THE SAME TIME many women who are sick of New Age Male Behavior and Degrading Social Skills in Men https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/12/26/young-men-dont-want-man/ A more Assertive in person approach work wonders, I've heard a ton of women say their dying for it and respond very positively. I'd say more Day Game on this, Online Dating and Social Media really has degraded Night Game A LOT. You're best bet for Night Game now is to be a life of the party guy with the Coke, the Pad, the Parties, Boats, Raves, Festivals, VIP Tables, ETC.. BECAUSE Night Game now really is tied into Social Media presence A LOT, so if you it will pay off for you to build up your presence in that scene if it's your thing. Cold Approach can obviously still work for Night Game, but Yes these days guard is up and ASD on night game is way up.. Sometimes it does require a tad buying drinks and such.. which I hate! I can take/leave the Night Scene so I really don't have the energy or the commitment to invest in it, but if it's your thing it's a serious way to go.
DonQuibollox 2018-06-19 01:39:03
@pancakemouse If it is so easy to search geographically on Fetlife, kindly explain why someone went to the bother of creating a third-party tool to do just that? https://www.reddit.com/r/fetlife/comments/8oqclt/fetlife_search_tool_not_working/ Don't get excited, kids, the tool doesn't work. Apparently Fetlife is trying to obfuscate the fact that it has so few members in most places (outside of the hotspots like CTV is lucky to live in).
Johnny Doe 2018-06-19 02:01:17
I have always believed that women, decent looking and up, have it invariably easier in one area of life - getting dates with men they find attractive. This is extremely true with online dating. With women it’s like shopping, they don’t even think about it. With men it is like a job interview or being under cross examination. Say or do one wrong thing, and you are history. With that said, I do know men who have found their life partner off online dating with no issue, that led to an extremely happy marriage, kids, and so forth. I am going to a tinder wedding pretty soon. These guys were not Chads, but never dwelled on the non replies or rejection replies. I think height really helps a lot. And I haven’t done everything BD recommends, but it does seem like a very low rate of return, but then again it is possible (but not probable). I have went one one Okcupid date and one Tinder date. One thing I will say is that Okcupid is very much structurally designed for guys to lose. For example, before the big changes, your thumbnail profile picture on a girl’s cellphone (nearly zero hot girls use a laptop for online dating) in her inbox is the very first thing she sees. Think about that for a second. You are judged by a thumbnail on a cellphone. So there was never any guarantee that a girl would actually even look at your photos full sized! That may be how some guys here who are actually good looking got passed over: The thumbnail has to catch her attention, she might like it or even really look at it. But Okcupid doesn’t care about guys getting rejected for arbitrary reasons. No online dating site does. Okcupid also put out an article that says girls have a higher response rate if they make the first move. Something like 50 percent. I have met girls here and there through social circle and the bar scene, and I’ve have some fun, positive experiences that way. How the power dynamic works after 2-3 fucks is a mystery to me since I have never gone that far in a non pay for play scenario. And not I’ve never had the opportunity, but was naive and didn’t realize girls do disappear if you don’t fuck them soon enough. One of my friends is sort of cute, out of shape, pretty cool to talk to, and she consistently dates male models, and I can tell, it does not even faze her anymore, like it is no big deal. Know how many times she has been flaked on? Zero. If she approaches a guy she won’t get rejected. That’s how I infer girls have it so much easier in that area of life they view it completely differently from men. Girls at work have bragged To me in the past about how many dates they have lined up. That was like 4 years ago, so I imagine it’s gone more in that direction since then. With respect to pay 4 play, I killed it there for awhile. Convinced a very physically attractive sweetheart ex-dancer to come see me at my place for nearly 3 years for a ridiculous low price. Even got it for free on my birthday. There were many times I actually cancelled on her just because I was trying to date normally, and eventually we parted ways, but on very cordial terms. I wish her well. One thing about the pay 4 play game that is surprising is that Girls often flake then as well, with no rhyme or reason. Not as often, but they aren’t totally business like either. The hot ones tend to quit around 24-25. That’s lifespan I have seen anyway. I disagree that sugar daddy game is the way to go, but I am basing it off one girl I met from some of those sites. Hot, but mad flaky and mad drama. In my head a girl who doesn’t flake and is ready to fuck, and have some good conversation, is what you are shooting for. Though I am by no means good looking, I am a fairly in shape guy, and I would like to get physically tougher as I get older. For the guys here, I would say that when you are really in shape and look your best in a pay for play situation, make no mistake, you really do stand out in a good way, and I think definitely more appreciated. If you can hold a really good conversation and the girl likes to talk, she will be likely to see you for less than other clients and may make you a priority. You can absolutely turn it into a mini relationship that is not 100 percent about the money. But in a regular situation I don’t think you stand out as much as a very beautiful girl does. Pay 4 play is much, much harder now too because of the new laws, and I really don’t engage it in anymore. Not just because it’s harder, but because it doesn’t really faze me anymore, and I’m extremely busy with life. The new laws are stupid legislation that lump trafficking and consensual escorting in one category. On one forum sex workers openly stated its making their work harder and they love being sex workers, and women posters were replying to them how there is no way it could be good for their self esteem. This is the law and society policing and prohibiting consensual behavior, just from the other side. But I guess that is a topic for another day.
Johnny Doe 2018-06-19 02:10:14
@David seeking arrangement is a total waste of time and money, from my experience. i saw zero hot girls, and the ones that were kind of hot wanted outrageous money, for literally nothing in return. a true sugar baby always shows up to the first meeting without question or issue, and usually that meeting does not cost money. Nowadays, girls on that site are so obsessed with getting their cut they don’t really think at all along the lines of what do I bring to the table. Even showing up is a big deal to them. Some want to be pampered by a millionaire, but it is just dumb to shower a girl with cash, because it doesn’t increase her loyalty, reliability, or horniness in my opinion. Pay for play is way better than sugar baby stuff.
marty 2018-06-19 02:31:57
seeking arrangement is a total waste of time and money, from my experience.I agree and disagree at the same time. My GF and I played around with SA for a while. We are a bit different as we are looking for Bi girls who will go with a couple so it narrows the field. We got fucked around a lot. But we also managed to get a few girls who where very non-hooker like and amazing fun to get with for much less than they would be if they where actually hookers. We got a legit model who has been on the cover of magazines to stay with us for 2 nights and 3 days for $500 plus dinner and drinks on both nights. She would be a $500/hr girl if she was a hooker at least. Probably more. We still talk to her and catch up as friends sometimes. She was just playing around with it as she makes plenty of $ with her modeling. Another 19 yo who was hot enough we had a lot of fun with for way less than if she was a hooker. She was a pain in the ass, very unreliable and we had to push back heaps on her stupid requests. But we still had a lot of fun with her for way less than it would have cost us for a proper hooker. She was just young and a bit silly. But hot and fun to fuck. Definitely interesting girls to be found on those sites. But you have to know what you will and won't put up with and push back accordingly and see how you go. We had stupid requests, we just told them to piss off and moved on!
Neil 2018-06-19 02:45:43
Girls are still getting laid. They’re just getting laid with more attractive guys. Every Chad in the universe is on Tinder these days. When people say it’s getting “hard”, they mean it’s getting hard for the average-SMV or below average-SMV guy. Above average SMV guys aren’t complaining. This is very true. I’m just average in the looks and height front so I rarely get matches on dating apps. Unless you are top 5% in the looks department it will be very difficult to get young/hot women online hence the reason why I have to use daygame and spend all my holidays abroad in countries were my SMV is higher just by being a westerner. daygame is even harder now because the girls knows that she can just go onto an app and find the chad. if u have good looks, good picture (shows you travel) or having instagram showing u snap pictures with bunch of hot girls. This shit will get u laid 80% of the time (or at least having pre selection), doing solely daygame has an disadvantage because u may DHV but without concrete evidence (ie pictures), the girl may not choose to believe u.Sorry, but all of this is just whinging. Most of the girls I know, don’t use Tinder as in their words “It’s full of time wasters”. They prefer to meet a guy ‘in the flesh’ and be chatted up. I go to a gym and it often has social functions and you’d be amazed how many of these buffed, pumped guys can’t hold a conversation to save their lives. They don’t know how to tease, flirt, break rapport etc.. all of which increases your SMV and will get the girl attracted to you, not how big your pecs are and having photos of you on a speedboat!? Get off the apps and computes and actually chat to women. I do daygame in galleries, museums, exhibitions and have a great return in dates. Spend more time chatting & flirting with staff in shops and coffee bars, to work your social & flirting skills. As BD says, if you don’t put in the effort, don’t complain about how girls aren’t dating you.
Calahan 2018-06-19 03:14:44
So WHY are all types of game getting harder and harder? Nobody bothered to answer this question.
uk_player 2018-06-19 03:23:54
@ Calahan So WHY are all types of game getting harder and harder? Nobody bothered to answer this question. because never in the history of the planet have women had so much choice without leaving the house.
Johnny doe 2018-06-19 03:43:56
@marty yes it definitely depends and varies. personally, I have zero interest in 3 ways. for the price you quoted, first girl, that is definitely a good deal, I think, as long as she was a fun person to be around. That matters above everything else. Like anything in life, the more you pay does not mean the more you get in return. the first girl I mentioned above I that I really had good times with for years, I would pay anywhere from $300 to $400 as she sometimes stayed up to 5-6 hours. Very beautiful girl, a legit stunner. Sometimes it boggled my mind to bang this broad, thinking richer guys are blowing $1000 or more on bottle service and might not even take a girl home, let alone a hot one. Fuck that! A different girl, a straight professional, charged $350 as an an escort stayed with me for nearly 24 hours for $1200 and was willing to do it again. She was pretty damn beautiful, had the best butt I had ever seen on a woman. For SA, the only girl I met I would pay about $400 just to hang out and mess around, but meeting her up and scheduling was always a pain, and she always wanted me to go buy alcohol, and other things for her before she showed up. I made it abundantly clear what I was looking for before she showed up, but she was always very unreliable regardless, and seemed to want different things every time. Looks wise, she was perfect in my book. Other SA girls tried to get $$ for a first meeting, and I pretty much refused that. Once thing is that surprised me about SA was that beautiful women were not willing to meet up in person right away. The ones I chatted with online literally had the same attitude as any girl from any normal dating website. Circling back to the point of this article, I’ve always wondering about coming out with my own dating site, I would change so many things. Not to eliminate a woman’s choice, but eliminate all the arbitrary bs as noted above. My site would require the girl looks at your whole profile and photos in full just to read your message. That way if you get rejected, at least you get a fair shot and not because she only saw some shitty thumbnail. or maybe I would limit any users inbox to 20 messages max, and they all have to be read, with the senders profiles being read before they can be deleted and new messages come in. Some girls have told me 5000 messages in an inbox can be overwhelming, so this would take care of that, plus force the users to really take a look at every message more closely. Dick pics and bots would strictly be banned, etc. just my two cents.
Anon 2018-06-19 06:20:34
So WHY are all types of game getting harder and harder? Nobody bothered to answer this question.From the very article:
women... get validation that formerly required real-life men from social media instead.Granted, it's not all of them. A woman told me recently that she got a lot of messages on a dating site, and talking seemed like a chore to her, while I asked her out quickly (like BD endorses), so she went on a date with me.
T 2018-06-19 06:37:43
@marty I've used Tinder and an app called TanTan. You need a VPN to use Tinder, but in my experience TanTan has better looking girls. I've either gone out with or currently have dates planned with 7 girls (out of about 200+ matches, so I picked only the most attractive ones) and 5 were from TanTan.
PK 2018-06-19 07:32:55
SA can turn out fine with little or no money spent, but it does take effort and you'll need a premium membership. I did one month for $90 and used a prepaid debit card so they couldn't just keep charging my real credit card. For the record, I'm 50. As others have pointed out, there are many girls who expect money right away, even to meet for a first date. With those I held frame and explained I wasn't interested in that. But, some will at least meet for free, then you see how it goes from there. I went on 3 first dates, ages 21, 26, and 21. First girl it was a standard date where I adhered to BD's recommended date routine and it went well. The only time during the date she ever mentioned money is when we somehow got on the topic of shopping and she said she tried not to go too often since she has student loans. But she said that in a laughing way, just making conversation, and never asked for any money or gifts. After that first date, she came over to my house on 3 different occasions, and we had sex each time. Second one was with the 26 YO and it went well and was another standard date. Haven’t been able to secure a second date since her schedule and mine don’t seem to line up well. The third was with the other 21 YO and the first date went fine. But when I pitched a second date, she asked about allowance and when I held frame, she went silent. So I had two “normal” dates out of three from SA. My advice with SA is to be up front about what you want. Some girls are on there simply because they are Type 2 or Type 3 and want to connect with older men, even if money doesn’t change hands.
Tom 2018-06-19 08:05:20
@neil i'm not saying daygame is the best way, each type of hustle has its own +ve/-ve im an average probably rate myself max 7/10 (okay looking just slim not having a stable income, decent at opening conversation) i will agree with you daygame/nightgame will push your comfort zone to the max, rather than sitting at phone swiping on tinder, at least if you get rejected IN PERSON, it's way better than having no response at all opening 50 girls on tinder
Blackdragon 2018-06-19 10:10:22
Based on your reports and feedback from followers in the field, are there countries were online game in more in it’s early phases and/or where online dating is working better than here in the US, specifically for men over 40 and 50?Asia. I've seen many guys (some in this very thread) get shitty results in the US or Europe then go to Asia with the same photos and get laid left and right. It's funny to talk to these guys; they always come back shocked.
Alexandra 2018-06-19 11:33:36
Great article BD. From a female point of view, I have to say it's crazy how many guys on dating apps like Bumble and Tinder have terrible profile photos of their face at a weird angle, or hidden in darkness, or wearing weird ugly clothing (that is maybe supposed to be funny?). The sad part is some these guys are probably decent looking but I always swipe left on these because I can't tell and it just looks like they dont give a shit about their appearance. I certainly don't think looks are everything and most girls don't but when you're using apps like that, looking decent in pics is super important because that's mainly what we see! I'm not looking to date supermodels, and I'd rather a guy who is on my level of looks (or slightly below ) and who is hilarious and fun to be with. But us girls are not interested in guys who are slobs and don't bother with their appearance at all. Being confident and funny is very attractive but very difficult to demonstrate online...so please do yourselves and us girls a favor and post better pics:)
CTV 2018-06-19 11:56:10
@Alexandra Thank You for you're input, always good to have a woman come in here and co-sign with good advice.
POB 2018-06-19 12:50:29
If you all were trying to coach in most other countries where men more so brag about how cool the women are like in brazil, colombia, dominican republic, mexico etc you all would not be able to hardly generate any business from being a dating coach right?I'm sorry, but this is inaccurate. I'm from Brazil (also been around the world a bit). The problems guys face here are the same most guys face in every corner of the western world....with the aggravation of latin women being more guarded against locals with weak game. You'd be at surprised how many guys and girls are not getting laid here. Also most women who date me say they want me to teach guys how to date. As a side note, been to Colombia earlier this year and women there told me the same: that guys there are usually weak when dating. It's a global problem, with slight different degrees from region to region.
John 2018-06-19 13:26:16
You’d be at surprised how many guys and girls are not getting laid here. Also most women who date me say they want me to teach guys how to date. As a side note, been to Colombia earlier this year and women there told me the same: that guys there are usually weak when dating. It’s a global problem, with slight different degrees from region to region.I agree.. I get the same thing from women. Even average girls here can go on 2 dates a day and 3 on Saturdays but yet can't find a guy they want to fuck on the regular. By far the biggest complaint I hear is how bad men are on dates. They just don't know how to seduce a woman without coming off as either a arrogant tool or a creep so most men just don't try. They go into interview mode, scared to progress or wait for the women to send them signals. Or they're rude, offensive, arrogant, ramble on about themselves, comedians, bad tippers, complain, and finally feel entitled for sex when they haven't done a god damn thing to seduce the woman.
jah 2018-06-19 14:51:11
Hello, BD. I have been reading your blog for quite sometime. I appreciate this blog and all the information you provided. I have 2 questions, the first question is in text game part 1 you stated that if a woman breaks up with you, you should not contact her for 2 months. In another post on breaking up, you stated not to contact the woman for 4 months? What is the reason for this 2 month change? I also wanted to ask you what you think about the book “The Truth” by Neil Strauss. (If you have heard of it) I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your time.
prepped 2018-06-19 18:26:35
Asia. I’ve seen many guys (some in this very thread) get shitty results in the US or Europe then go to Asia with the same photos and get laid left and right.Yeah. I was afraid you'd say Asia. lol I was hoping online was strong in spots outside of Asia and Africa (not being into those girls in general). So, out of Asia, any particular countries (other than perennial favorites, Philippines and Thailand) where things are still good for 40+ white men online? I've seen Japan (meh), and hope that perhaps Korea is a bit better scene. Like you, this gentleman prefers blondes, big boobs and curvaceous are pluses, but not hard requirements. However, I'm slowly transitioning to sugar daddy game in the next two years. My time is too valuable for chasing diminishing returns in the every changing landscape of game and dating.
prepped 2018-06-19 19:19:22
You’d be at surprised how many guys and girls are not getting laid here. Also most women who date me say they want me to teach guys how to date.I actually do well with women, especial Latinas. But I'm eager to hear what specific, actionable advice you can give us here based on the feedback you've gotten from women. Do you have a top 3 or 5 things you can share with us here?
JRM 2018-06-19 21:08:54
Online game is still my method of choice, but I've found approaching women in real life more powerful than before as more women say to me "men never approach me anymore, they all just rely on dating apps." Makes you stand out and gotten me laid quite a few times just by saying hello. I've found this to be true with my friends too - they rely on the apps instead of opening up a girl they are really interested in. Most women hate the idea of telling their friends they met their current love interest online (esp the real hotties). Again, I read this blog because I'm an introvert at heart who likes online dating, but throw in some day game and you'll have a very well rounded portfolio of girls to pick from.
Blackdragon 2018-06-19 22:52:40
In another post on breaking up, you stated not to contact the woman for 4 months? What is the reason for this 2 month change?Experience. The first article you're referring to is many, many years old.
I also wanted to ask you what you think about the book “The Truth” by Neil Strauss. (If you have heard of it)I've read it and I will make a post about it at some point. The bottom line was that it was one of the most difficult books to get through I've ever read, for many reasons.
I was hoping online was strong in spots outside of Asia and Africa (not being into those girls in general).A few places in South America, like Columbia, but those aren't paradises either, and present their own problems.
So, out of Asia, any particular countries (other than perennial favorites, Philippines and Thailand) where things are still good for 40+ white men online? I’ve seen Japan (meh), and hope that perhaps Korea is a bit better scene. Like you, this gentleman prefers blondes, big boobs and curvaceous are pluses, but not hard requirements.It sounds like you want a perfect place, and there is none. If you like blondes and big tits, that means Eastern Europe / Russia, but you'll face a decent amount of competition there from other foreigners, more traditional women who want 3 dates before sex, and the usual problems with Russian girls. There is no pussy paradise. There is only you and your skills.
Online game is still my method of choice, but I’ve found approaching women in real life more powerful than before as more women say to me “men never approach me anymore, they all just rely on dating apps.” Makes you stand out and gotten me laid quite a few times just by saying hello.This is a very interesting point. I have found it very strange that daygame hasn't experienced some kind of resurgence of easy lays because of the prevalence of online dating. What you're saying makes sense, and I was expecting it, but I just don't see it. Daygame guys are bitching that it's harder just like online and night game guys are, not that it's easier. Which I think is strangely odd. Maybe something like this will happen to "normal" people 5-10 years from now? Some kind of daygame Renaissance as a reaction to the prevalence of online dating? Or not. I really don't know. But it certainly hasn't happened yet.
Neil 2018-06-20 03:31:38
Daygame guys are bitching that it’s harder just like online and night game guys are, not that it’s easier. Which I think is strangely odd. Maybe something like this will happen to “normal” people 5-10 years from now? Some kind of daygame Renaissance as a reaction to the prevalence of online dating? Or not. I really don’t know. But it certainly hasn’t happened yet.Daygame, unlike nightgame, has a high burnout rate just because guys aren’t prepared to develop the required social skills & calibration to get girls to hook. Guys jumped onboard when it first became popular as they felt it was going to be easy as Pick-up companies promised that all they had to do was use a few Jedi mind tricks to get girls to go home with them from the supermarket! Once they found out that for every date you get, you get rejected dozens of times, they skulked back to the bars and clubs and online sites. Guys that do well from it (like myself and others) are prepared to tough it out but also develop themselves by travelling, having hobbies, being aware of social trends, current affairs etc.. as well as knowing how to flirt and tease the girl.
VictorRevan 2018-06-20 05:17:46
I used Fetlife for years but there are so many men and very very few *hot* women. Women might have no ASD, but they're really guarded there compared to typical dating sites, and/or are attention whoring for likes/friends. It results in extremely low yield even for attractive men. The upside is that it's an active and entertaining social media site, so you can learn a lot of kink stuff and meet some interesting people through it.
Rick 2018-06-20 06:00:47
I'm a 59 white guy but look more like 42. SA has been good to me. I target 19-20yo students and my preference is black girls. Most are so easy to meet up with. I've been seeing one 19yo science student (21 now) for about a year and a half. We have great sex and talk lots of nerd talk. She lived with me for 8 months until I threw her out but we're getting back together at the end of the summer. She costs me her tuition and misc expenses and basically acts like my long-term gf. Another is a 19yo smaller air-stewardess student with a bf of 2 years. We do stuff she never does with bf and I sense that she's warming up to me like the other one. I think the trick with these girls is to keep gaming/teasing/negging them relentlessly. They do enjoy it and it keeps their mind off of being a ho. The girls I chose are pretty reasonable about spending/costs. The ones that want to to rich are dropped pretty quickly. Also, I get zero matches on Tinder. Not much on pof which is even worse because of the age-matching they do. With my looks and relatively young physical age I don't do well with the 46yo crowd. They are just gross. Another strategy on SA is to target the young ones that have just joined SA. Fresh meat.
PK 2018-06-20 08:15:36
@Rick: "I’m a 59 white guy but look more like 42." Similar to me, I'm 50 but look about 10 years younger. "With my looks and relatively young physical age I don’t do well with the 46yo crowd. They are just gross." I don't even have a desire to try gaming women 40+ online. The vast majority I see are fat and/or ugly. "Another strategy on SA is to target the young ones that have just joined SA. Fresh meat." ^^ This. Many of the users have a "join date" displayed, so I tended to target the ones that have been on SA for maybe a month or less. The newer the better.
POB 2018-06-20 09:57:54
I actually do well with women, especial Latinas. But I’m eager to hear what specific, actionable advice you can give us here based on the feedback you’ve gotten from women. Do you have a top 3 or 5 things you can share with us here?Sure! But I'd be talking about things that already have been said here in exhaustion: 1) be confident and outcome independent, but don't be an arrogant jackass; 2) don't talk about yourself, let her speak most of the time; 3) be cocky funny and tease her, talk about sex in a casual non-judgmental way; 4) dress very well, have a good scent on you, grow some facial hair, incorporate at least one attractive male archetype that matches your personality (and take it as far as you can); 5) don't get her to a fancy place, don't shower her with money (even if you go the SD route), but be gentle and pay the bill on the first date; Anyway, if you want specifics this is def not the place (don't want to derail the thread). Look me up on Masf forum (we're taking a lot of new guys lately, which is great) or the Alpha 2.0 network, and we'll talk there. *My nickname is POB in all of those places.
JJ 2018-06-20 15:47:32
Sugar daddy = paying to get laid = banging hookers Don't have a problem if that's what you want to do but you can bang hookers without taking them on a date first Also sugar daddy women = extrinsic motivation = very bad idea
Anon 2018-06-20 17:03:08
Sugar daddy = paying to get laid = banging hookersThere's a spectrum, and I doubt there are many hookers who are not jaded and lifeless. Sugar babies are like hookers in some regards but not in others. (Talking out of my ass as I have no experience with either.)
Blackdragon 2018-06-20 17:14:45
Sugar daddy = paying to get laid = banging hookersFinancially speaking, correct. But the women are indeed different, at least usually (barring exceptions; there are some "normal" hookers and there are sugar babies who act and live just like profesional hookers, but these are the exceptions). You're also going to have much higher retention rates with sugar babies than you will with hookers.
Don’t have a problem if that’s what you wantOnly if a man meets the two criteria I spelled out here. Otherwise a man should never pay for sex, sugar daddy or hooker makes no difference.
to do but you can bang hookers without taking them on a date firstIrrelevant. 90% of my sugar daddy first dates cost me zero money and 100% take far less than an hour; often it's less than 30 minutes.
Also sugar daddy women = extrinsic motivation = very bad ideaIf make them anything more than FBs, correct. Keep those women to FBs only!
joelsuf 2018-06-20 18:53:36
So why are all types of game getting more and more difficult?PUAism. It opened a Pandora's Box where all of a sudden millions of guys who usually would just find some meh looking chick in their social circle a few times a year (or a few times every five years) were given guidance to get with any chick they wanted. Seeing this, and knowing that women have a monopoly on sexual gatekeeping, women's movements (mostly in colleges) would actively seek these people out and make sure they were punished for doing their stupid shit. BD wrote a post about this I believe in early 2017. What people do not understand is that PUAism, which started off well enough in the late 90s-early 00s, became very perverted (figuratively and literally). Starting in the 2010s, more and more PUA networks have preached the rapey techniques that women's movements warn against. They aren't wrong about this, and I have a theory that they were doing this on purpose to get women's movements to notice them to make things much more difficult for everyone but themselves. Just look at the RSD guys and the chicks they get with. Jeffy and Julien both brag about hooking up with feminists and don't apologize about it.
In an older post you had attributed this to the fact the West is leaning left wing. But why does left wing have to do anything with it?Left wing is in the interest of defending weak people at all costs. And what are weak people, generally? Anyone who is not alpha. However, unlike the right wing, they are not sex negative. They are sex positive, but only from a chick's standpoint. The left doesn't mind when chicks are sexual projectors, because to them that's "Girl Power" and girl power is left friendly. But when they see a guy doing this kind of stuff, its chauvinistic. Problem is, there is still sexual gatekeeping going on, and this creates a lot of misunderstandings in romance. Only the narrative has changed. Back in the day, if a chick asked a guy out she would be considered an "evil temptress" or a "hussy" by the alpha 1s who ruled the day. They wanted to be the ones who controlled everyone's sex lives. Back in the day it was nearly impossible for a chick to have a fulfilling sex life. This explains why they did just as much serial murdering as men back then. The only thing that changed from then to now is the gender. So now its dominant chicks who want to be the ones who control everyone's sex lives. They encourage chicks to get at men, but only high value men. As soon as said man loses his value (as proven by all these famous guys who are getting accused of harassment), then they get punished. What a surprise, women want to rule the world and tell everyone what to do just as much as men do. What a concept! But as BD said, if you are not a major public figure, you don't need to worry about any of this. It literally will not apply to you. In fact, there isn't even such a thing as ASD anymore. I'm more inclined to call it ACD: Anti Creep Defense. So if you don't act like a creep, not only will you avoid being #metoo'd, you will also have sex with the chick quicker. Use this stuff to your advantage! People are talking about sex openly more and more, makes things much easier than back in the day when you had to kind of hint at it.
joelsuf 2018-06-20 18:59:54
With chicks getting craftier with online dating, and being more scared of creeps trying to rape them (or "close" them as PUAs would say), I think dating is gonna go right back to good ol' day game and especially social circle. Social circle is EASILY the most effective way to meet chicks. Get some buddies, go out, meet another group of buddies, and all of a sudden everyone knows each other and you now have good access to buddies of buddies who you can get with easily. The only problem with social circle is that everyone's brain has gone back to high school now because of social networking and social circle is the high school mentality on steroids. But still, that can be easily handled if you just tell your social circle to stay out of you and your girl's business. Its a lot more effective than night game where you have to sort out a million logistics or online where you have to send out a million likes/messages. Day game and social circle, homies. Those will stand the test of time. PUAs and women's movements have burned the other ones to the ground.
C Lo 2018-06-20 22:04:22
High school? How about seventh grade. the problem with social circle game is what happens when things get sideways between you and her. And it always gets sideways.
IsoE 2018-06-21 01:52:10
Do anybody notice flaking from dates go up lately despite comfort bombardment? I think at least in tinder dates. I never act emotionally to flake but if its happen a lot its pain in the ass for your own timing. Im thinking about start double booking dates as a solution for this. What about blackdragon do you ever use that strategy and how large is your dates flake rate? I think mine is about 40%
John 2018-06-21 08:28:13
Do anybody notice flaking from dates go up lately despite comfort bombardment? I think at least in tinder dates. I never act emotionally to flake but if its happen a lot its pain in the ass for your own timingTinder has become that app girls use when they get into a fight with their BFs or need validation. At least in my area and age group it has. Most of the time they cancel, disappear, or block your number because they made up with a bf. Or they move on to a more serious dating app.
Blackdragon 2018-06-21 10:11:15
What about blackdragon do you ever use that strategy and how large is your dates flake rate?Yes, when I'm scheduling many first dates I will double-book occasionally, particularly when they're VYW. My first-date flake rate with all women, last time I checked, is around 32%, with VYW it's around 45%. As I say in my books, women are flakey. It's hard-wired into feminine biology. I have noticed no uptick in overall flakiness with women however. They've always been that way.
Anon 2018-06-21 13:12:01
My first-date flake rate with all women, last time I checked, is around 32%, with VYW it’s around 45%.Do you define this as canceling the date, or just failing to show up?
Blackdragon 2018-06-21 18:58:06
Do you define this as canceling the date, or just failing to show up?It depends on how they do it. I always double-check the day before or morning before a first date. If they verbally cancel the date, then I just reschedule with them. If they don't give any response, I consider the date canceled, move them to the Inactive list on my spreadsheet, forget about them, and move on.
Tom 2018-06-21 19:50:00
BD, i met this 23 year old christian ''virgin'' chick for 2nd date, what interesting thing i found i, was she was basically physically hold my hand and lead me stronger to directions thanks to preselection that day i also put on a selfie with a cutie. she'd qualify herself saying she has titts like 36D cause i qualified her saying u got no ass but she wouldn't let me touch her ass in public but she wanted to talk to me in car before going up, i tried times to pull her back to my place or her place she doesn't want. also in the car i tried kissing her attempt(s) but she pulled back. Should i see her again, noted this was 2nd date, a nurse also.
Blackdragon 2018-06-21 20:01:50
BD, i met this 23 year old christian ”virgin” chick for 2nd datehttps://blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/
Shura 2018-06-22 00:38:26
So, out of Asia, any particular countries (other than perennial favorites, Philippines and Thailand) where things are still good for 40+ white men online? I’ve seen Japan (meh), and hope that perhaps Korea is a bit better scene. Like you, this gentleman prefers blondes, big boobs and curvaceous are pluses, but not hard requirements.FWIW, Singapore has stunning quality and variety, from what I swiped while there.
IsoE 2018-06-22 01:54:33
Yes, when I’m scheduling many first dates I will double-book occasionally, particularly when they’re VYW. What if you double book and both woman seems to show up? Do you just reschedule another and how early before date? Often girls cancel date in same day. In my system I reschedule 1 time if they suggesting another day. If they just cancel without any reason or flaking 2 times its automatic next.
Blackdragon 2018-06-22 09:57:20
What if you double book and both woman seems to show up? Do you just reschedule another and how early before date?Yes. As soon as I find out, which is usually the same day.
DonQuibollox 2018-06-22 20:29:40
FWIW, Singapore has stunning quality and variety, from what I swiped while there.Singapore girls are rapacious gold diggers - notorious for it. I guess that comes with living in one of the most expensive cities in the world. And the climate sucks balls.
palmasailor 2018-06-23 03:16:45
@calahan Its getting harder because almost ALL WOMEN are totally mobbed by thirsty beats without even getting out of bed and putting make up on.
SomeGermanDude 2018-06-24 05:12:48
Okay, I guess it's time for me to share some of my own spreadsheet data. While I don't think online dating is impossible I'm starting to think that I'm wasting my time. Place and time Country: Germany Location: Major city, about 2 mio city population and about twice as much when including the metro area Time period: 4 months Frequency: Small blitzes about once a week, inbox check and responding once or twice a day Major dating site usage: - OKC - badoo - german site A (similiar to match, requires payment) - german site B (free to use, no messaging restrictions) Minor dating site usage (experimental): - CMB - POF - 2 alternative german sites (free) Profile pictures - 3 pictures: - 1 torso and face picture in nice shirt looking relaxed and not in the camera - 1 full body picture outside in sport clothes - 1 torso and face picture with friends and drinks looking relaxed Profile text - 1st version vibe (direct): everybody is in charge of his own life, ambitious about my work in tech, easy going in my free time (friends and sports), attracted to women with a positive attitude - 2nd version vibe (indirect): living a happy life is simple, health + passionate profession + good people, some light jokes inbetween to show that I'm not too serious about that Opener types: - about 10 % were individualized (at the beginning) - about 50 % were some variation of "You seem interesting. Feel free to message me." - about 40 % were a short and fun question about animals Targets Target age range: 18 - 32 Target type: mostly average and cute women, some hot women Average age opened: 26 Target distance: max. 45 min from my home (about 30 - 40 km) Messages Openers sent: 443 Initial respones: 31 (~ 7%) Openers received: 3 Convos: 31 Dates pitched: 10 (~ 32%) Goes silent at some point: 17 (~ 55%) Goes silent before date pitch: 10 (~ 32%) Goes silent after date pitch: 4 (~ 13%) Goes silent before committing to a specific date: 3 (~ 10%) Writes very long answers: 5 (~ 16%) Writes very short answers: 6 (~ 19%) Open rejections: 4 (~ 13%) Deleted their profile at some point during communication: 3 (~ 10%) Phone number offered (me): 6 (~ 20%) Some phone contact established: 2 (~ 6%) Dates scheduled: 1 (~ 3%) Dates flaked: 1 Actual dates: 0 Women who opened me: 3 - one woman about age 40 deleted her profile one day later - one women without any pictures and very little profile text + bad grammar - one women who is seriously overweight (not just a little) Summary The issue for me is not so much getting responses but turning these responses into actual dates. Assuming a girl does not go silent before or after the date pitch she simply won't commit to a specific date or want to keep talking. She says something like: "My schedule looks bad this week." When I try to schedule for next week, she goes silent. Some girls are obviously not interested but reply anyway. Their answers are very short and disinterested. They don't ask any questions and get rude sometimes. Others talk a lot and ask many questions but as soon as I pitch the date they are gone or "not ready yet". I try to follow all of BDs advice. With the exception of some of my earlier convos I'm not entertaining long conversations but pitch the date quickly. I'm pretty sure that my pictures are decent and that I'm above average looking (although not very good looking). My main profile picture is rated 9 of 10 points on one of my major dating sites. From what I've read here my response rate of about 7 % is decent (although not very good). If my pictures were bad it should be much lower, don't you think? I don't go for fancy dates but suggest grabbing a cocktail. That leaves the conversational topics. At the beginning I tried to ask interesting stuff. So I asked things like how happy they are with their life. Recently I tried much lighter topics like talking about animals or travel. I did not notice any big difference in my results except that the lighter topics are faster in execution. My messages are short and end with a question or statement about here. I don't deliver any compliments apart from the "you seem interesting" opener. I don't even message only hot women. Most of my targets are cute or average looking since that allows me to put in more numbers and I just want to get started with this system. Any thoughts or ideas? Anyone who applies BDs system in Germany and can share his experience?
Vanilla Boy 2018-06-24 20:09:37
I posted a few lines about the online scene in Indonesia the other day, but I'll expand a bit here. Firstly, when it comes to the male-female ratio for foreign men-Indonesian women, it's radically in your favor. That's probably the biggest point. A lot of Indonesian women are sex-positive. There's a lot of hypocritical bullshit about female virtue and virginity as well. So, the women break down into a few groups. The biggest is probably provider hunters, who overlap with Disney B. For Indonesian women, Disney A is getting married to a nice Indonesian boy when you're a virgin, producing a few children, happy family. But shit happens. It often doesn't work out. A lot of women get disappointed with that particular dream and then decide a white male could fill the dream instead. Then there are sugar daddy hunters. They are often quite blunt about what they want. "Generous older man, etc." The smallest group, but still a large number, is women who are just horny and feel that there will be less fuss with a foreign male than with a local, more discreet, less potential risk to their reputation. You need to do SOME screening. I generally reject women in head scarves wholesale, although I did see one the other day who claimed to be a bisexual who was open to non-monogamy. I sent a quick "hi" just out of curiosity. No reply as yet. But you don't have to screen TOO much. Some women say "No hookups, looking for long term relationships." When you actually meet them, they may decide that while that's still their ultimate goal, they will settle for less in the mean time. DON'T come on heavy with sex talk! So many women, including ones who really are just looking for sex, often tell me that they get it all the time and it's the biggest turn off. Serious, if it's online, wait until they initiate sex talk. Or just leave it until you meet. Indonesian women in general aren't so worried about age gap. All the usual rules apply, you should be in good shape, dress well, and so on, but age in itself is not always a precluding factor. I'm 55, I knock off five years on my profile, and I still find it easy to meet women in their early 30s. I don't think the 33 year old rule applies here. Women tend to get MORE sex positive once they hit around 30, not less. There is a big marriage market value on virginity, and a lot of Indonesian women who are very sexually active in their 30s didn't even have sex until they were in their late 20s. I use good photos on my profile, I'm in good shape, excercise a lot, eat well - but I'm not remarkably good looking. I get about a 50% response rate to messages. Most of those turn into conversations, some fade outs and disappearances. Maybe half of those will end up meeting you, and half again of those will have sex with you. Hmm, setting a second date target might be pushing it. Third date would be more realistic. Meet for coffee first time, maybe some fun, low cost activity the second time (film, or maybe just more coffee). Invite them over the next time. If they come to your house alone, the deal is done. Maybe slightly less sexual talk than Dragon suggests, at least for a guy my age. Maybe less touching. Just light, fun conversation, joking around, a bit of teasing. Some younger guys push the sexual stuff a bit more and it seems to work for them. All this is from the perspective of someone who lives here. I've heard of people who cultivate contacts before making a quick visit. I guess they'd get to sex much more quickly. An FB said that she made me wait til the third date because she didn't want it to be a one night stand, but she said that she'd had a few western guys who'd just been passing through and had sex with them an hour after meeting, just because she knew they weren't going to be around long. Most of the women online seem to speak English pretty well. I can speak Indonesian, but I usually use English unless they specifically ask. Is it getting harder? Hmm. Still seems pretty easy. The OKCupid changes to the messaging system were a bit of a drag. Almost all Indonesian women now have Tinder, whether or not they are actually looking for sex. OKCupid is better. I signed up for IndonesianCupid the other day, but just using OKC seems to be working okay.
NR 2018-06-25 01:29:45
Who, specifically, is saying that daygame is harder than it used to be? Any accomplished daygamer will tell you that daygame is difficult, period. It just sounds like a classic daygame newbie complaint, and newbies in any endeavour aren't representative of the whole. You would need empirical evidence based on many approaches and accurate records to be able to make the statement "daygame is much harder today than before." Unlike online game, there are only a few guys who are actually logging their numbers. Strangely enough though, those are the guys who often have the most success with daygame, since they're constantly tweaking things and improving.
VictorRevan 2018-06-25 08:21:33
@NR What kind of numbers do you recommend tracking for daygame. With online game I used canned openers, specific profile photos, etc that I keep stats for. Are you keeping track of just venues, or style of openers, or what you're wearing?
NR 2018-06-25 09:10:48
@VictorRevan For any given daygame session recording the number of approaches, venue, openers, and type of girl is all great. Also, since daygame is so dependent on vibe and emotional state, it's helpful to know what sort of mood you were in too. Additionally, recording yourself in set is hugely beneficial for reflecting on the things you're messing up and tweaking accordingly.
johnnybegood 2018-06-25 11:30:46
I just came here to say this. I just came back from Moscow and St Petersburg, Russia. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Why? Because in my experience (and another American I met with an identical experience) - it was absolute CANDYLAND. 1. The women were insanely hot. 2. My Tinder blew up immediately. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of matches of hot women. Very little effort needed on my part, at all. The only qualification was that the girl had to speak some English, of course. Many did who found me. 3. In person, too. I'm an average guy in the US and even Germany/ France I get a marginal boost. Russia? Holy shit. I had jaw-dropping blonde women ... the hottest I've ever seen ... treat me like a "hot guy" - which honestly that status I've never had before. Examples? There was a couple dancing to a band. I went up to the guy and asked about the band (had no intention of hitting on anyone). The woman (smoking hot) started talking to me and IMMEDIATELY said "oh by the way, we are just work colleagues" and was all over me the rest of the night. I mean, that's a bit disrespectful to the guy, to just say that (if he was interested). But I've never had a hot woman dump such an obvious IOI like that immediately. Usually it's the opposite (get out the "I have a boyfriend" right away). I think the experience was almost a sad one. I was there for two weeks. I matched with over 1000+ hot women. I swiped everyone (out of pragmatism) -- and STILL only 1 in maybe 100 matches (if that) were fat chicks. Some were average (7s rather than smoking hot) but the ratio was crazy. The women are so hot, they reject hot women at club doors (and let in American men just fine). I was even screwing some hot Russian in her car, and was so cocky at this point, I just asked her why it's different here since "I don't do this well at home." She posited: Well most women are hot here, so being hot is just like being normal. Which is true. Supply and demand. If "average" is stick-thin hot girl, then she'll behave like an average girl in the US (usually warpig porker muffin-top) given the marketplace. But it's sad because I live here in the US. And now I'm back here --- yeah I can follow all BD's tips, but even I improve dramatically (and keep effort high) -- it will be nothing like Russia when I was even 15 pounds overweight (6'0 190 right now). Yes the country itself is no dream (unless you're a remote worker getting paid US wages) but the woman aspect alone is almost enough to make up for it. Jesus Christ is all I have to say. It doesn't feel like Thailand or the Phillipines either where the lays feel like you're sort of cheating. These are basically tall, model white women. But uh, again. I felt like a "hot guy" for once. By which I mean, very little effort was needed. I said generic shit on Tinder, it gets a very positive response. Instead of being "flexible" - I dictate where and when we meet and they will drive an hour to talk to me and do whatever. Sorry for the rant but it's just incredible. Now I'm back in the US. Half the Tinder profiles at least are fatties. I'm sure if I do a "mass swipe" -- 80% of my matches will be fatties wasting my time. The hot chicks I match with will have a lower response rate (maybe 30% if that) and then I need to do a monkey dance and try to fuck them. If you haven't been to Russia BD, I advise to go there immediately (Visa is guaranteed it just takes a couple hours to fill out the long forms and you have to pay $250-$300). I'm not sure if you will learn much. Because you'll basically just be fucking models left and right. But uh. Maybe you'll learn something. EDIT: I searched your blog BD because I remember you mentioning Russia before. It appears you have dated Russian women in the US. I DO believe that would be different because you are not the "rare" American guy, but she is in a sea of American men, so why would you be a unique and valuable commodity? I have to say, the Russian women in Russia are certainly more traditional/ less feminist. There is a BIG cultural stigma against "being easy" - which can hamper quick lays. Nevertheless, I was able to move fast and as long as you're not pushy (hey whatever you want to do) ... it was fine. Surprisingly, it was very rare that any escalation was met with negativity (hand on back/ shoulders/ whatever). I did have a few women who wouldn't "put out" on the first date because "I'm not easy!" (huge cultural programming) ... but I KNEW they wanted to. They were grabbing my ass, etc. And the next day it was usually "okay". With BD's persuasive skills or any "deprogramming" logic, I think it would be child's play.
VictorRevan 2018-06-25 19:08:02
@johnnybegood I totally agree with you on the "demographic conditions" of the US versus foreign countries. BD already went on a rant against Russian women, so don't bother too much. Do you know Russian? Or is it easy enough to get by with just English?
john 2018-06-26 05:39:48
Because in my experience (and another American I met with an identical experience) – it was absolute CANDYLAND.What about age differences? How do you think guys in their 40's and 50's would do over there?
johnnybegood 2018-06-26 07:39:28
@Victor I studied a year of Russian in college (about 9 years ago) --- so honestly, didn't remember much other than the basics. I mean very basics. Hello, hi, how are you, what's your name, I'm good, cat/ dog/ bread etc. In terms of communication my Russian was nearly useless. If the girl didn't speak at least decent English, the Google Translate app worked but was frustrating and a huge buzzkill/ boner killer. I imagine if you DID speak conversational Russian, you would be able to access even MORE girls, but I could set up a date any day of the week regardless. So many girls were after me (and the no English filtered themselves out after a few messages - sorry no English) that it didn't matter much. In terms of getting around Russia, it may be useful (but not essential) to learn the Russian/ Cyrillic alphabet which takes about a day to learn. Maybe 2-3 hours. Their letters are the same, they just look different. The pi symbol is "p" for instance. Other than that, my smattering of Russian (ooh look! eta koksha! (cat)) - (nice to meet you!) (hello - strats-vuiy-tay!) were just cheap parlor tricks that seemed to impress the girls even though again -- they were simple to learn lol. But yeah knowing English is fine. I'm also a seasoned traveler though. @john -- guys in their 40s and 50s? I'm not sure. I'm 30 but also look old for my age (35) I've been told. I did fuck a girl who was 35 because she was trim and looked amazing. Probably the oldest women I've been with. I would imagine she would have little problem fucking a man in his 40s. But ultimately I was in Russia for two weeks; I'm not aware of all the dynamics. It certainly in no way can be worse than the USA in terms of women, lol.
Philip 2018-06-28 04:52:19
Any blog / website / book to recommend that helps in building an attractive Instagram profile?
T.I. 2018-06-28 18:27:09
@Blackdragon, In my opinion, perhaps it has to do with too many men per a woman in the new online world (post 2013 i.e. accessibility to smartphones). It is also not biologically normal to have this (large number) men per a woman throught history. This is similar to the "Youth Bulge", however the western world is a 1st world nation. Therefore I think dating game is changed forever unless we have a major war or a major economic crisis. any Feedback?
Captain 2018-06-30 16:48:42
My main girl is 23, I'm 44. I go out with her and her friends on a regular basis. In fact at this point, most of her friends are my friends. Her friends are all at least very cute to very hot. Most are grad students, all are college educated. They all seem to struggle with the same thing, young guys are either too player or too clingy. Most young guys also lack style and basic game. The best compliment I got recently was when my gf told me that several of her friends are so fed up with young guys and think I'm so cool that they raised their age way up in the dating aps. If you are a cool interesting guy who knows how to talk to people, you will be successful. Also, learn how to approach women in real life. This usually comes down to being chill and outcome independent. Ideally online will just be a supplement to real life approaches. All my gfs friends complain that guys never approach them in a non-creepy way.
Marty McFly 2018-06-30 18:24:10
Any blog / website / book to recommend that helps in building an attractive Instagram profile?Look up NaughtyNomad.
Jason 2018-07-01 12:06:24
I don't know if online dating is now "impossible" (the fact that we're even having a discussion whether it's viable/impossible says something), but here's something that's hard to ignore : - around 3-4 years ago I started online dating ... lived in central new jersey. Central NJ has an estimated population of about 3 million people. It's full of small cities one after another, plenty of women - I always used the same criteria when I was on OKC (and also match) - women aged 18-30, hot/above avg setting, online within the last day were some of my specifications - I had tremendous success. There were always hundreds of girls that showed up...and I was able to send plenty of openers and got responses. NOW? I just went OKC. Same criteria, only I chose online with the last WEEK. Do you know how many girls showed up (forget quality, because even on the "hot" setting the quality of the girls has gone down an insane amount compared to what it is).... I got a grand total of FORTY WOMEN. That's 40 women, hot/above avg, online in the last week, ages 18-30, in a populated area of, at the very least, over 1 million people. How can you still maintain a normal online dating strategy, while choosing girls you still think are cute, when one of the most popular online dating sites has a grand total of 40 women on there online in the last week? While I don't think it's IMPOSSIBLE ... all I can say is, unless things change and people get off swiping apps like tinder/bumble and go back to okc/match type sites, to say this is "harder" is an understatement.
Bulma78 2018-07-17 11:10:06
Not true BD, I actually hired an image consultant/photographer and a good amount of money to come up with the best pictures he could and it hasn’t done anything.Chris, if you’re still reading…….Maybe the photos that the photographer took came off as too planned out or staged? But I don’t think that’d be a bad thing necessarily, but it could? You should just go help your brother or a friend cut down a tree in their yard or help them tear out a bathroom in their house that they’re getting ready to remodel and have them take a few pictures of you while you’re working. Girls like to see pictures of guys looking all grubby and doing something manly.
Robbie 2018-10-12 00:10:27
Hey Blackdragon. Apologies for reviving an old article, but I just wanted to ask a question regarding the 3 photo rule. I find my face due to my expressions, and my dimple, looks much better looking in videos than in photos. I'm also a singer/musician, and I am actually good (I make about $40,000 a year mostly from busking with occasional gigs). I'm wondering if you think it's an okay idea to link my dating profiles, tinder etc to my YouTube where I have several videos of my singing while playing either piano or guitar. I know you say to stick to 3 photos unless unusually good looking, I actually am very good looking, but not very photogenic, I'm much better looking on video or in person, it just doesn't translate to two dimensions like it does for some people, as you see with some models who look incredible in photos but aren't actually that good looking in person. Thanks