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Purposely Clinging to Your Societal Programming
-By Caleb Jones
The worst thing about being a kid is that no one told me the truth about my situation. In fact, they did the exact opposite, and of course I believed them, because I was just a kid and didn't know any better. I mean, Christ, my brain hadn't even grown to full size yet. So how could I be expected to know when adults were bullshitting me?
So I swallowed all the Dark Ages nonsense they fed me. Some time passed. I grew up a little, and I gradually began to figure out that pretty much everyone had been lying to me about pretty much everything since the moment I emerged from my mother's womb.
This was an alarming revelation. It gave me trust issues later in life.
~Ready Player One
It’s a nice thought. You don’t want to throw that fantasy away! It gives you some level of peace to believe in this bullshit.
Thinking that, if you just get enough people to vote for him, Bernie Sanders (or one of his heirs) will provide you with free food and free college and free health care and will tax those Evil Rich People™ and make them mad and all of that will work forever…
It’s a really nice thought (at least for some, not for me.) Thinking that Donald Trump will singlehandedly time-warp all of America back to the 1950s when everything was perfect, build a wall, kick out all those God Damn Immigrants™, totally reform government and the news media, and beat the shit out of those SJWs so you can jump up and down with some orgasmic glee…
Thinking that, if you just do what your mom/dad/best friend told you to do, that if you just go to college, major in STEM, get a Good Job™, then everything will be perfectly fine because you’re a good guy and you mean well and you're a hard worker and you want to make your parents proud…
Yeah man, these bullshit thoughts are very compelling. I don’t have any of these thoughts, since I cleaned out my SP about 15 years ago, but I fully understand how peaceful, alluring, comforting, and pleasant these bullshit thoughts could be.
If you’re experiencing these thoughts and some big asshole like me comes along and shows you via actual facts and studies that long-term monogamy doesn’t work, that college is a waste of your time, that no politician will be able to save the West, or that getting a job will just end up bankrupting you in the long-term, you’re going to get upset with me even if on some level you know or suspect the thoughts you’re defending probably aren’t true.
It’s hard to believe in the truth. It’s hard to admit that 2+2=4. Objectivity and rationality are hard. That’s why these things are so rare with human beings.
How do you force yourself to believe in reality then?
That's a very complicated question with several answers, but here's the easiest one: you have to get mad at yourself.
You have to look at your life and get upset. You have to get to the point where you look at yourself in the mirror and scream “NO MORE!” Note that I said you have to get mad at yourself, since everything in your life is your fault. Getting mad at anyone external to yourself is just a waste of your time. But getting mad at yourself, to the point where you want to make a change, ah, that’s very healthy.
It’s at that point you might have enough balls to submit to objective reality instead of the bullshit SP your mom or YouTube is peddling you.
I reached that point many years ago. I knew that believing in the bullshit would not make my life better. I knew that I had to admit how reality and human beings actually worked in the real world even if I hated it.
It was hard to do. But I got over it once my life started getting amazing. Once I started making more money, doing more enjoyable things, having sex with more women (and more attractive women), over time I stopped giving a shit about the comfort my bullshit SP was giving me. More and more I desired more objective reality. Every day I started asking myself these two questions:
1. How do human beings actually work in the real world?
2. How can I exploit this behavior to get what I want without having to lie, hurt anyone, or break the law?
The more I answered those two questions, the more money I made, the more sex I got, the better my life became, and the happier I was.
Often I hated the answer to question number one. I thought the answer was unfair, sometimes even insane. But the answer was the answer. So, no matter how much I hated it, instead of fighting it, I forced myself to move to question number two.
Once I implemented the answer to question number two, my life improved, often by amazing leaps and bounds.
I kept doing this, over and over again.
And today, I’m the happiest man I know. My life is so amazing that to this very day, I still can’t believe I get to do the things I do every day. I’m very serious about this. It’s been over 10 years and there are days I still can’t believe it.
So it’s well worth letting your thumb-suck blanket, your bullshit Societal Programming, go.
You just have to make the decision to be happy.
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Marty McFly 2018-11-05 05:07:13
Society is ever changing. What if one day, a more open attitude towards sex and relationships - yours, perhaps - becomes the norm? Would then that not be societal programming?
nator21 2018-11-05 05:23:25
You really have to visualize the long term goals. I just attempt by first "The Talk" with OLTR Candidate. I did most of the things right but she said the relationship is over (after she had cried, kissed me, hugged me, told me "I should tell you to fuck off" etc.). Now I act like the relationship is over (next few days will show if she contacts me) and it hurts but you gotta endure short term pain and know the thing I'm doing is right.
Blackdragon 2018-11-05 06:12:37
What if one day, a more open attitude towards sex and relationships – yours, perhaps – becomes the norm? Would then that not be societal programming?I don't murder people because I believe murder is morally wrong. Is that Societal Programming? Yep. As I've said before, sometimes SP gets it right. Not often, but sometimes.
C Lo 2018-11-05 06:22:49
Now I act like the relationship is over (next few days will show if she contacts me) and it hurts but you gotta endure short term pain and know the thing I’m doing is right.You say that like she wouldn’t have done it anyway if you became monogamous! That pain is probably unavoidable. Congrats for facing it head on. I am struggling with something like this right now. Literally everyone at work is trying to fix me up, get me married off (again) so I can start having children or grandchildren with their kids. And I don’t want to. Been there before on some of it, and never wanted the rest. Conversation over, right? Well, maybe. Except it never ends. Societal Programming is pernicious and even after you get it handled you must remain vigilant because it will reload and come back at you. Its like a virus, carried by the people around you, and they are actively trying to reinfect you. If you choose to fight this, you are gonna have to keep at it. Timely post BD.
Marty McFly 2018-11-05 06:32:22
Who we are and what we believe are as two chains of a double helix. To act in defiance of one’s ideals is to sin, psychologically speaking. Murder is not wrong because society says it is. Society deems murder to be wrong because our DNA does. It all comes down to a combination of genes, hormones, and enzymes. I hope I’m being coherent here. But the fundamental order of praxeology goes biology, then psychology, and finally anthropology. May I refer to The Moral Animal by Robert Wright, and Ecce Homo by Nietsche.
John 2018-11-05 07:51:13
Being an introvert helps you shed SP easier and more quickly. Then once you do it's much easier to avoid getting sucked back in. The main reason why people live the lives they do is because of the little social group, political club, social club (i.e. religion), or community they belong to. Or want to belong to. I have shed all of the that. The church, the couple friends you got with so your kid could have friends, politics, and the community. I'm divorced now, kid is old enough to make his own friends, don't get involved in politics, and I'm no longer interested in church. I literally don't give a fuck about what others think or believe and it's very freeing. Good article BD
CrabRangoon 2018-11-05 08:58:46
This is probably the most challenging part of moving to an Alpha 2.0 lifestyle. SP has been so ingrained in us since we were old enough to talk by out most trusted confidants like parents, grandparents, etc...then bolstered by the culture at large as we start to soak in the bigger world outside our homes. Then once you've cleaned out your own head, you still have to deal with EVERYONE ELSE and their SP which you can't really change. This has been my biggest challenge lately, since I've dealt with my own SP a long time ago. Parents and family almost always want you to take the "safe" route in life....get that steady corporate job, traditional marriage, etc. They often don't realize how much times have changed since they were young and what worked then doesn't work now.
Eric C Smith 2018-11-05 09:05:10
thank you. I went back to the randy gage material to hone in and master this.
JohnMurdoch 2018-11-05 09:39:03
Cognitive Dissonance. People don't like to have their beliefs questioned, and science explains it. I guess some people feel less cognitive dissonance and these people become red pilled libertarians like us. Sometimes people even believe they changed their minds and all, but actually only rationalized a different way to keep the same beliefs. It is particularly common in the manosphere, where people learn the ugly truth about women and relationships, and after all that, they decide to go to eastern europe or asia and find a perfect girl untouched by the dangers of western society.... Its a different disney, but it is still disney. Some people want to be delusional I guess
Blackdragon 2018-11-05 09:51:17
I went back to the randy gage material to hone in and master this.Interesting... I'm in Panama right now and this morning while getting ready in my hotel room I had several of his videos going on in the background to get me in the proper mindset for the day. 🙂
JudoJohn 2018-11-05 09:52:49
Are you saying specifically that repeatedly answering those two questions "deprograms" you from SP? I have almost every Alpha 2.0 box checked outside of, perhaps, the biggest....the ability to reliably pull new women into my life in order to really enjoy OI and an abundance mentality. However, I get IOI's every time I go out, and even get occasionally opened. GLL has a great piece on hook up for the busy guy....1) keep you and your place clean, 2) ask 1-2 girls a day to get a drink later that day, 3) ask any girl meeting you for a drink home for a nightcap and 4) forget everything else. I'd replace 4) with "implement BD dating system" (burn in, categorize, rules, etc). Now.....in BD's SP breaking paradigm, specifically related to day game (not spam but observational openers usually in response to IOI's):
1. How do human beings actually work in the real world?Women are just going through their days like the rest of us, basically normal, kind of boring, probably stressful.....and probably with some combination of boyfriend/husband/orbiters/prospects in her life. A brief chat with a handsome and witty man is a nice distraction, and having him explicitly hit on her is often at least flattering, as long as he does it in a socially calibrated way. At worst (and most likely as most women are not sexually available), a shoot down. At best, she'll want to meet up with him later and see where things go, as it's better than watching TV. The hook up culture is not what it's cracked up to be, and the chance to hang out on a semi regular basis with a fun, muscular, sex positive, non judgemental and non clingy man must be appealing to at least some subset of these women, even if she has some beta boyfriend. Or I'm hamstering what I want to be true.
2. How can I exploit this behavior to get what I want without having to lie, hurt anyone, or break the law?Have the balls (and organization) to make at least 1 daily calibrated approach, EFA (I know you know this, just thinking it through myself and exposing the thoughts to peer review), being congruent with that frame over the long term, and realize that women have agency too and get to choose to go along with what you want, or not. I think I'd be less of a coward if I was looking for my next TMM, ground I know well, but to hell with that. If I was convinced that women really are down with being pulled into MLTR's, totally unfamiliar with me, well that would be freeing. Or I'm hamstering what I want to be true. So, yeah, guilty as charged, I'm clinging to SP, no doubt about it. I looked at my biggest failure as an aspiring Alpha 2.o, and it's now pissing me off, so mission accomplished, I guess. At the end of the day, I desperately want the MLTR/FB/LSNFTE model to work. It's got to be better for all parties than the heartbreak cycle, which I'm totally sick of and over.
CW 2018-11-05 10:40:25
I remember the moment I realized significant portions of my life were built on lies. I literally stared at the ceiling for a couple hours that day just reprocessing my life, living with a woman for 2 years who I got along with but wasn't satisfied with. Barely feeling like the man I knew I could be. On that day I was very angry, sad but also relieved. This was 4 years ago. I still don't think I've done anything that impressive yet but compared to 99% of the people I interact with every day it seems like I have superpowers. I just pick my goals, do the work and sooner rather than later I get the result I want. If you're on the fence, take the bitter pill. It's fucking worth it. It's literally the only way worth living. If you don't, you've essentially chosen to commit a long, slow suicide, it's not really living.
JJ 2018-11-05 10:52:59
Totally relate So glad I didn't have to go through the marriage -> divorce route before I realised that TMM (what I call Sex 2.0) doesn't work. As for a boss? Ain't had one of those since I was 22.
Live Free, Don't Join 2018-11-05 11:52:42
Society is ever changing. What if one day, a more open attitude towards sex and relationships – yours, perhaps – becomes the norm? Would then that not be societal programming?The point being made isn't that societal programming of any kind is necessarily a bad thing, just that societal programming as currently practiced is bad. Bad in the sense that it is not congruent with personal happiness for a modern man, and in most cases, modern women.
Blackdragon 2018-11-05 13:22:10
Are you saying specifically that repeatedly answering those two questions "deprograms" you from SP?That's not all you need to do to fully deprogram, but getting into that habit is a really good start.
JudoJohn 2018-11-05 14:15:23
That’s not all you need to do to fully deprogram, but getting into that habit is a really good start.I could see that. It's really kind of surreal....objectively, I'm in a fantastic place, yet how the fuck can I be willing to step onto a competition judo mat while being scared of these lovely creatures who are smaller and weaker than me? It's bonkers. I'm sure the 100th time is far easier than the 1st. I'd like to argue that I'm not "clinging" to SP, as I really see it as something that's in my way by now...and yet, I can't honestly say I'm not clinging to SP due to some ego preserving mechanism, I suppose. The key has to be that I just need to start taking the shots, both in terms of the needed words "I've got to go, you should join me for a drink later today" and if/when it finally works, following the rules (never more than once a week, make her cum every time, no boyfriend bullshit) and see how non-monogamy actually works out. Systematic desensitization. I don't really want to be desensitized to bothering women.....I always thought dancing monkey PUA, stopping women on the street, was pretty poorly calibrated and unlikely to work....but it sure would help if I was desensitized to asking out women who like me (as evidenced by them actually being engaging in conversation, which happens plenty). Shit, it's been more of a faux pas for me to not ask out women in social circumstances I've found myself in recently. Lift like your life depends on it, I suppose.
Justin 2018-11-05 15:29:06
Just wanted to say thank you for this today. Had to hard next a MLTR today because of a lot of shit that I let slide because of SP. That being said yes I caused it, but it's nice to have something like this to read and reinforced today's decision.
Johnny Ringo 2018-11-05 15:59:04
1. is without a doubt the hardest. If not for BD, who knows really? It's been getting a lot better personally, as has life, but it still stings you sometimes and brings you back. I think the big thing for me was I grew up with seemingly loyal females in the family, but when you get out in the real world you just learn that loyalty is more of a masculine concept, (in most cases) as one example of many. BD talks about women mostly in terms of dating/relationship context, but it's extremely hard to rely on them in a business context as well if your expectations are to have them work like a man and process like one. BD's first big advice to me was...............THEY ARE WOMEN. Sounds so simple and intuitive, but we all miss this at times. Little concepts such as "Women Flake, it's what they do" has saved me a lot of mental headache and speculation.
Jack Outside the Box 2018-11-05 16:50:15
Societal Programming is pernicious and even after you get it handled you must remain vigilant because it will reload and come back at you. Its like a virus, carried by the people around you, and they are actively trying to reinfect you. If you choose to fight this, you are gonna have to keep at it.That is precisely why anyone we haven't unplugged is potentially an agent. Threaten their blue pill world view and they become enforcers, as the agent program takes over. We are survived by running from them (a.k.a. starting your own business), by hiding from them (a.k.a. secret society), but they are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys, and that means, sooner or later, you will have to go against them (even your own family). Yet, their strength and their speed is still based in a world that is built on rules. Because of that, they can never be as fast or as strong as you can be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnw_emcvrPs
David 2018-11-05 21:26:42
Society is intertwined with our culture. Culture shapes part of our identity. When we reject society’s principles, it leaves some of us with a kind of empty void, easily filled with nihilism. Most people dont have the mental fortitude to reject modern perceptions of religion, marriage, love, America and success, while somehow hanging onto a motivating purpose beneath it all. When their thoughts meander down that path, they can sense the danger and choose to stay in the matrix. I dont blame them sometimes. I lost some zeal for life when I formulated a fact based philosophy. It keeps me logical and free of drama, but I’ve lost some of the “hope” for humanity that was essential in motivating me in my youth. Now I just view humans as mostly low IQ masochists doomed for extinction.
B 2018-11-06 00:26:05
I've always leaned in the direction of objective reality, but the further away I get from SP, the harder I find it to relate to normal people. Of course I can relate on a basic human level, but people seem to be covered in layers and layers of SP. Like hiking out into the wilderness, once you leave the crowds at the parking lot there are fewer and fewer people the further you go until you find yourself all alone. While this is quite peaceful, it's also a little scary to know that you're almost completely alone in this lifestyle. Any tips on maintaining a connection with normal people while being SP free?
Anon 2018-11-06 04:20:11
Any tips on maintaining a connection with normal people while being SP free?Make friends with people to whom your lifestyle brings inspiration, not mockery and envy. For others, "yes, I'd like fries with that indeed" is the appropriate level of connection.
John 2018-11-06 06:50:09
Any tips on maintaining a connection with normal people while being SP free?I would assume it would be tougher the younger you are. Me personally, if I were younger, I would just put it out there that I'm a man whore, don't want to ever get married, and like a lot of pussy. Kill my social circle game but it's stupid and unnecessary to "date" in your social, work, or family circle anyways imho. Unless they knew what I am and didn't care.. I'm older and that's how I handle it now. That's just one area but it's the biggest obviously
Leon 2018-11-06 07:43:22
You should make a blog post about ''Escaping the Recovery Beta trend'', I'm sure many of your readers (me included) will benefit from it. Basically, we know all the principles, we know how to behave like an Alpha 2.0, and most of the time we look Alpha to the world. However, there're some deep-rooted beta SPs that refuse to leave and they are hard to purge. Some even stay on the subconscious level that only come out when we are in danger / have to make very quick decision (while the true Alpha should be rock-solid from inside, I believe). Stuffs like: - Tendency to go out of the way to please ppl for no reason. - Tendency to avoid direct conflict on all matter. - Tendency to feel uneasy when surrounded by super hot girls or other bad-ass Alpha 1.0s. - Tendency to lower self-value and ''sacrifice'' own time/energy upon other's requests. - Tendency to lose own frame when getting blamed/harassed. ... I don't say this happens all the time, only when we get surprised or be over-comfortable. But it's annoying as fuck and, knowing what we know now, makes us feel very beta. We often regret the beta decisions, only to subconsciously repeat them again somewhere down the road.
TI 2018-11-06 09:50:53
@ Blackdragon It’s interesting that most people who preache caring is sharing is a societal programming that has a fallacy to it. For example, resources (food, water, shelter is limited) when a society reaches a critical mass on those, that specific societal programming collapses like Germanys civilian population towards the end of WW II. Tribalism forms and resources are fought. So Wouldn’t that mean human emotions are easily overwritten by our ancient animalistic survival mechanism? If so, that would mean the majority people who preach for sharing, are not in a society that has reached that resource critical mass (i.e. 1st world western countries) ?
JudoJohn 2018-11-06 10:40:38
I want to kind of add on to what Leon was saying here. Some of us know a lot, and yet when it comes to action....it's a real adjustment throwing off SP and living the Alpha 2.0 life, or not backsliding in Leon's case. It is awfully strange to go into new relationships with the purpose of landing MLTR's & FB's. Paralyzingly strange. I'm guessing the answer has something to do with Yoda wearing Nikes and just doing it. Whether or not there is a difference between clinging to SP and simply being too much of a coward to forge on into this brave new world is, I guess, academic. It would be nice if there was some goat sacrifice rite that could help some guys turn the corner, but instead, it seems to be a just grind and do it kind of thing.
Blackdragon 2018-11-06 11:18:02
I lost some zeal for life when I formulated a fact based philosophy. It keeps me logical and free of drama, but I’ve lost some of the “hope” for humanity that was essential in motivating me in my youth.Very weird; that didn't happen to me at all. I became more happy and more excited/fulfilled when I formulated my fact-based personality, not less. There must be some distinct difference between the way you are mentally framing this vs. how I do it.
Now I just view humans as mostly low IQ masochists doomed for extinction.My view is not as bleak but it's certainly similar, but the difference between you and me is that this distinction doesn't make me unhappy in the least. Mostly because I don't care. (Maybe you still do.)
I’ve always leaned in the direction of objective reality, but the further away I get from SP, the harder I find it to relate to normal people.I also do not have this problem in the least, but, as I think someone already mentioned, I think that's probably because you have a more extroverted personality and I'm more introverted. (Just a guess.)
it’s also a little scary to know that you’re almost completely alone in this lifestyle.YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Join and plug into the Alpha 2.0 Community. That's why it's there.
However, there’re some deep-rooted beta SPs that refuse to leave and they are hard to purge.I'm not sure about what I'm about to say, but I personally think such a person would require some therapy; i.e. there are likely deeper issues going on besides just converting from beta to Alpha 2.0. I say this because I converted from pure beta male to Alpha 2.0 without any horrible scars or any deep-seated beta behaviors that refused to go.
Some even stay on the subconscious level that only come out when we are in danger / have to make very quick decisionI wouldn't worry about that kind of thing. I mean seriously, how often are you in real danger?
So Wouldn’t that mean human emotions are easily overwritten by our ancient animalistic survival mechanism? If so, that would mean the majority people who preach for sharing, are not in a society that has reached that resource critical mass (i.e. 1st world western countries) ?I don't understand the relevance of those questions. My view is on that kind of thing A) I don't care and B) this.
It would be nice if there was some goat sacrifice rite that could help some guys turn the corner, but instead, it seems to be a just grind and do it kind of thing.Ha! Wouldn't that be nice? Oh, if all personal growth came easily...
JohnMurdoch 2018-11-06 11:34:37
However, there’re some deep-rooted beta SPs that refuse to leave and they are hard to purge. Some even stay on the subconscious level that only come out when we are in danger / have to make very quick decision (while the true Alpha should be rock-solid from inside, I believe)I think it is something we need to work on the rest of our lives. It's a skill that needs to be practiced and that we can never master completely. Like a sport. You can always practice harder and get a little better, but there will be always some improvement to make. And some situations are so rare and different that will be hard to prepare for. Stoicism and some zen-like philosophies develop techniques to improve the ability to be more in control of oneself and able to administer situations of crysis without reverting to an inferior state of mind. Maybe it helps.
JudoJohn 2018-11-06 11:54:29
Very weird; that didn’t happen to me at all. I became more happy and more excited/fulfilled when I formulated my fact-based personality, not less. There must be some distinct difference between the way you are mentally framing this vs. how I do it.There might be a remaining element of SP here (for him). It's such a well worn trope that rationalism/atheism leads to nihilism that I've often heard it from rationalists/atheists. Nothing could be further from the truth. BD, you are as hardcore a "if it's not in my sphere of influence, it doesn't matter" type as I've ever interacted with. Yet within the things you care about, you clearly care a lot about them. I heard the enthusiasm in your voice in the podcast that came with the Older Man/Younger Woman guide. I see how you write about PF, not to mention cheesy 80's action movies. Basically, life is meaningless and death is nothingness, so why don't you kill yourself? You tell me why you don't just end the pain and step in front of a train, and I'll tell you the meaning of your life. It's really that simple. But again, there is this Societal Programming that really wants us to take on the ills of the world, and when we reject it, our lives are supposed to pale in significance. We're no longer White Knights of the entire world but instead bitter men who will grow old and die alone. Bullshit, I know, but I think it's part of SP that is a trap for many guys.
JohnMurdoch 2018-11-06 12:22:36
We’re no longer White Knights of the entire world but instead bitter men who will grow old and die alone. Bullshit, I know, but I think it’s part of SP that is a trap for many guys.Yeah I agree. I dont know why it works like that, but being unplugged really affects guys in different ways. Some will finally feel freedom and fully enjoy life (BD for example. I also feel that way, knowing makes me so much happier and more calm. It soothes my angst). Other men will feel angry and tricked and lose hope. We see so many of them at the manosphere. I wonder what triggers these different reactions
JudoJohn 2018-11-06 13:02:21
Other men will feel angry and tricked and lose hope. We see so many of them at the manosphere. I wonder what triggers these different reactionsI'm guessing it's at least somewhat dependent on how badly their ex wive's lawyers bent them over the table.
Duke 2018-11-06 14:21:21
It all comes down to laziness and caring what people think. People just seem to want to go on some form of autopilot, putting the least effort possible while being accepted. I can relate to this on some level. Almost everyday I'm a little apprehensive about acting too boldly, and saying what's on my mind unfiltered. People DO notice this behavior, and they Will judge you for it. Only think you can do is be more mindful, and stay away from any obvious haters who can make your life difficult. Exactly why you should be 2.0 and stay away from toxic institutions like college and the corporate work force, as these as safe zones that don't mesh well with a independent minded person.
Onder 2018-11-07 05:48:21
I don't think there's anything wrong with societal programming as long as it leads us towards a healthy and growing society. There needs to be rules in place in order for society and civilisation to be healthy. This is why a society that was historically built on religion worked. I never used to be too deep into monotheism, but the more I read up on it and educate myself. The more it makes sense to have it as part of our society. It provides balance and allows us to live as complete humans. As much as people shun it, there's simply no denying that it was functional. It's pretty obvious that leaving things to our own devices has only made things into what it is today. We've become less human and more animalistic with no sense of shame or guilt. We need a universal law that doesn't change, otherwise, that gauge of what's considered normal and acceptable will evolve and further spiral us out of control as is happening with the West. It's great to live in your own terms, but as we're here temporarily, doing anything besides trying to help make the world a better place only makes us part of the problem. It's easy to think that a small thing in our lives won't affect the world, but you only have to look at the butterfly effect to know that our decisions are a bigger deal than we think and affects the population. I personally don't want to roll the dice on the possibility of getting away with any negative actions after I die, and will certainly be terrified knowing that everything i've done will be judged.
JohnMurdoch 2018-11-07 05:49:19
I’m guessing it’s at least somewhat dependent on how badly their ex wive’s lawyers bent them over the tableI think its harder to get over it when you think you personally got screwed by the love of your life who betrayed you and contradicted all her promises and etc. When you know she is just a normal woman being a woman and you were the one that didnt know what you were doing, it would make you less angry, wouldnt it? "Humanity screwed me up" is less unfortunate than "I was the unlucky one that was screwed by my own soulmate"
Vanilla Boy 2018-11-07 06:35:40
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with societal programming as long as it leads us towards a healthy and growing society.I'm genuinely curious to know how you ended up on this site. Did you do some random google search and get led to the wrong place? You must realize that you are setting yourself up for ridicule and scorn. Or is this a clever piece of trolling?
“Humanity screwed me up” is less unfortunate than “I was the unlucky one that was screwed by my own soulmate”"I screwed up" might be a bit more painful, but it's a lot more honest. At least it gives you something you can work on to change.
Onder 2018-11-07 06:41:17
I’m genuinely curious to know how you ended up on this site. Did you do some random google search and get led to the wrong place? You must realize that you are setting yourself up for ridicule and scorn. Or is this a clever piece of trolling?No, its called having a discussion. Correct me if i’m wrong, but isn’t a big part of a discussion about hearing views that might not fit with your own and being able to discuss it with an open and non judgemental mind? I don’t believe i’ve said anything wrong.
Blackdragon 2018-11-07 07:30:41
BD, you are as hardcore a “if it’s not in my sphere of influence, it doesn’t matter” type as I’ve ever interacted with. Yet within the things you care about, you clearly care a lot about them. I heard the enthusiasm in your voice in the podcast that came with the Older Man/Younger Woman guide. I see how you write about PF, not to mention cheesy 80’s action movies.Yep!
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with societal programming as long as it leads us towards a healthy and growing society.Yeah, you're on the wrong blog.
There needs to be rules in place in order for society and civilisation to be healthy.I agree but I'm not talking about rules (like "don't kill other people"). I'm talking about Societal Programming (like "get married as soon as you're out of high school because that's what god wants!"). Rules are necessary. SP just makes you unhappy while serving those in power.
I personally don’t want to roll the dice on the possibility of getting away with any negative actions after I die, and will certainly be terrified knowing that everything i’ve done will be judged.Jesus. You're religious too (which means you're fundamentally irrational). Yeah, I love you brother, but you're on the wrong blog.
JudoJohn 2018-11-07 07:53:49
When you know she is just a normal woman being a woman and you were the one that didnt know what you were doing, it would make you less angry, wouldnt it?I would hope so, and this is a great point. I am in my 40's and have been on both the giving and receiving end of heartbreak. In fact (and thanks for helping me think through this) one of the things holding me back is that I am the man of many women's dreams....handsome, no kids, college educated, good career, decently social....but if I'm just a seducer, if I use just enough Disney to get laid then implement MLTR/FB rules...I'm just being a guy, right? Hell, I think the BD dating system is fairly well tailored reducing the collateral damage behind you (who else advocates taking LSNFTE's so casually?)
I don’t believe i’ve said anything wrong.It's not that you're wrong so much as you are going against the ethos of this blog. I'm not going to address your points one by one, because what you will do is go tit for tat on each. No, I'm going to boil it down: I am compelled by law to wear my seat belt in my car when driving. Do I fasten my seat belt because I think "gee, it's the law" or "the modern safety systems of this car (which probably account for 25% of the value of it) are rendered useless if I don't, and I do not want to be injured or die?" Enlightened self interest goes a long fucking way, and that is all I have to say on the matter.
JohnMurdoch 2018-11-07 09:23:58
but if I’m just a seducer, if I use just enough Disney to get laid then implement MLTR/FB rules…I’m just being a guy, right? Hell, I think the BD dating system is fairly well tailored reducing the collateral damage behind youNot sure if I totally understood your point, but the way I do things now I feel like I'm being a jerk to girls when I break the MLTR rules and do boyfriend behaviours. That really fucks up relationships and get the girls to fall in love and break their hearts. When I dont break any rule (what happens mostly with girls I really dont care about, so I have zero investment on the relationship), they seem to always be in the best of moods and enjoy the relationship just as much as me or even more. Small sample size tho, cause I usually only stick to FBs and MLTRs that I like and end up screwing up the rules and generating unnecessary drama. I can usually track back my mistakes
JudoJohn 2018-11-07 09:46:07
the way I do things now I feel like I’m being a jerk to girls when I break the MLTR rules and do boyfriend behaviours. That really fucks up relationships and get the girls to fall in love and break their hearts.I think you understood me exactly, and this is really interesting. I have only maintained one relationship where I would only contact for logistics, ignore most private messages, see her only once per week, etc., but in person I'm engaging and cook great dinners and pound her well and all of that.....it's kind of shocking how well it works, but at the end of the day, I've become absolutely hooked on this level of freedom and it would be unfair to pretend I'm interested in anything more from a relationship. Doing this with a woman I really, really liked would be harder, but it would be all the more important for exactly that reason. Thanks for the comment!
Félix 2018-11-07 11:12:34
That’s not all you need to do to fully deprogram, but getting into that habit is a really good start. Hey BD, I know you talk about it in the Unchained Man, but have you ever thought about making a more in-depth guide on how to rid oneself from bad SP?
Blackdragon 2018-11-07 11:18:01
Hey BD, I know you talk about it in the Unchained Man, but have you ever thought about making a more in-depth guide on how to rid oneself from bad SP?Yes, quite a bit, but I don't think It would sell very well, nor could I charge a decent amount of money for it. 99% of people reading the sales material would be like "getting read of false programming? who cares? why would I spend $57 on that???"
Félix 2018-11-07 11:18:05
That’s not all you need to do to fully deprogram, but getting into that habit is a really good start.Hey BD, I know you talk about it in the Unchained Man, but have you ever thought about making a more in-depth guide on how to rid oneself from bad SP (as an e-book)?
JudoJohn 2018-11-07 12:16:09
Yes, quite a bit, but I don’t think It would sell very wellThat's a shame but you're probably right. For whatever it's worth, answering the 2 questions in the piece go a long way towards breaking SP, I'm guessing. Those are good filters, and to run other people's actions through a filter rather than just reacting is probably a damned fine start. The other part would have to be some sort of systematic desensitization......somewhat like your piece on the shower not being too hot or too cold, and the gradual lowering of the temp. until you've pulled another "normal" woman into non-monogamy (at least for a while). Using the force of will against oneself is often futile, but longer strategic games have cumulative effects.
Onder 2018-11-07 13:21:48
I am compelled by law to wear my seat belt in my car when driving. Do I fasten my seat belt because I think “gee, it’s the law” or “the modern safety systems of this car (which probably account for 25% of the value of it) are rendered useless if I don’t, and I do not want to be injured or die?”Lol, You do realise that cars have to pass vigourous safety standards before they can be road worthy. It’s also the law because it’s the “right” thing to do... Just saying.
Duke 2018-11-07 14:54:03
As much as people shun it, there’s simply no denying that it was functional. It’s pretty obvious that leaving things to our own devices has only made things into what it is today. We’ve become less human and more animalistic with no sense of shame or guilt.Like others, I'm also wondering how you got to this blog, and what you hope to accomplish. It must truly suck to be a moralistic person in the West. But not really in the West though, just in the cities. I don't know why people care so much what other people do in large cities. There are plenty of conservative areas where this type of thinking is prevalent. I talked to this lady one time who said she never went to the city (besides work) because there was "too many women that had babies from multiple fathers," and "why can't people have morals" lol Sure most of America and Europe is urbanized, but there are plenty of small towns where you could go, and have all the guilt and shame you want with other people like you. You could have a bunch of kids, really get to know your neighbors, and have them watch everything you do all the time so you don't "go down the wrong path," or so your wife can't cheat on you. You could also go to church every Sunday and praise the Lord like a good Christian. Or you could come on red pill blog and try to shame everyone with your moralizing.
JudoJohn 2018-11-07 15:34:51
Like others, I’m also wondering how you got to this blog,It's almost an advertisement for the SMIC. Pretty much anything really valuable on the Internet is behind a paywall or in a .gov or .org page (that allows you to easily interface with an API). Trolls don't pay to troll.
Duke 2018-11-07 17:46:34
It’s almost an advertisement for the SMIC. Pretty much anything really valuable on the Internet is behind a paywall or in a .gov or .org page (that allows you to easily interface with an API). Trolls don’t pay to troll.Are you suggesting people should join SMIC to avoid trolls? In any event you got me wondering about SMIC. Are you in it? Or is it a secret society/fight club type shit and you can't talk about it? I'm curious as to what can be discussed on the private forum that doesn't get discussed here or the 2.0 community.
Vanilla Boy 2018-11-07 23:27:55
99% of people reading the sales material would be like “getting read of false programming? who cares? why would I spend $57 on that???”Well, following a tip from someone on SMIC (I think from your recommended book list), I'm now immersed in Brian Tracy's Maximum Achievement. I'm genuinely grateful that I don't have many billable hours this month so I can devote time to it. Tracy seems to have done okay with a program for getting rid of false programming.
Vanilla Boy 2018-11-07 23:36:22
Hell, I think the BD dating system is fairly well tailored reducing the collateral damage behind youWhen I came across this blog and got serious about consciously avoiding de facto monogamy, I did struggle with the feeling that I was being an arsehole to women ... for about five minutes. But seriously, you can act with a high degree of integrity and respect just by not telling lies and not making false promises. After that, if people still get hurt, they've got to take responsibility themselves.
CTV 2018-11-07 23:58:27
Just got Younger Woman Manual.. can’t wait to chew through it. The thing that’s funny with dating/hooking up younger chicks (legal teens/early 20’s) is I expect some hate from women (especially over 33 crowd and from women with daughters that age) I see it as part of the game. It’s lart of their SP. However it’s hilarious when I see Men giving me shit about it. I hear remarks like (those younger girls are all he can get, no girl our age wants to date him). It is downright HILARIOUS.
Vanilla Boy 2018-11-08 02:17:21
Are you suggesting people should join SMIC to avoid trolls? In any event you got me wondering about SMIC. Are you in it? Or is it a secret society/fight club type shit and you can’t talk about it? I’m curious as to what can be discussed on the private forum that doesn’t get discussed here or the 2.0 community.No man, nothing ultra secret. Just less of a pissing contest. No total newbies croaking about religion or feebly defending monogamy. And then no-one pissing down on them to demonstrate their Alpha 2.0 credentials to win community approval. Quite cooperative and supportive. People ask for ideas about books, resources, courses. Some people describe business projects they're working on for feedback. Some talk about issues with women, dates that went wrong, kinky sex, legal issues. BD doesn't spend that much time answering questions, but does respond to clearly formed questions where he can provide brief, useful information. You're just as likely to get some good info from another member. Honestly, I think BD likes a bit of controversy on the blog. It makes it all exciting and fun, drives up the hit rate, keeps the punters coming back. Over there it's more about people getting where they want to go. For entertainment value, the blog is actually more fun.
El Barto 2018-11-08 03:00:10
However it’s hilarious when I see Men giving me shit about it. I hear remarks like (those younger girls are all he can get, no girl our age wants to date him). It is downright HILARIOUS.I experience the same thing from men and it's funny as hell. Last week I met up with a former co-worker ( I quit working for the MAN this april). When I told him I dated a 23 year old he called me an old idiot (I'm 41) and said in all earnest I wasn't supposed to do that. I just shook my shoulders and told him he could live his life as he wanted and I live my life as I want.
Jack Outside the Box 2018-11-08 05:17:36
And then no-one pissing down on them to demonstrate their Alpha 2.0 credentials to win community approval.This is the second time you have slandered me (yes, I am keeping score). I suggest you keep your garbage speculations about my motivations to yourself, as your perceptive abilities leave much to be desired. I couldn't possibly give less of a rat's fuck about "community approval." I rip apart the blue pill thinkers in order to educate the newbies and those who are reading this blog who might still be on the fence, and wish to know the logic behind the red pill. Fuck your "approval." It's worth less than toilet paper. If you have a problem with me, challenge me openly or keep your mouth shut! But whatever you do, drop this indirect passive-aggressive horseshit, unless you don't mind being continually, unendingly, and directly called out.
JudoJohn 2018-11-08 08:38:12
No man, nothing ultra secret. Just less of a pissing contest.Evidently not....but exactly my point, and not just on this blog....I think we, as a society, screwed the pooch by refusing to pay for online content. The trolls, the advertising, etc. is a direct result of us not paying for content.
But seriously, you can act with a high degree of integrity and respect just by not telling lies and not making false promises. After that, if people still get hurt, they’ve got to take responsibility themselves.Yeah, exactly this. I'm in my mid 40's, live on the garden level of an apartment, with a deck that leads up to the courtyard & pool, across the street from a college, and 1/3 my living room is an Olympic barbell set up...plus I drive a 2 seater. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure me out, although my lifestyle isn't enough, it's up to me to make sure I act correctly, EFA, all of that.
However it’s hilarious when I see Men giving me shit about it. I hear remarks like (those younger girls are all he can get, no girl our age wants to date him). It is downright HILARIOUS.I had a straight up smokeshow on my arm for 4.5 years, 20 years younger than me. We got going when she was 19. We calculated the day that she was no longer less than half my age, but exactly half my age, and fucked to celebrate. We remain close friends since we both felt freed from conventions. Anyway, Younger women had no problem with it. Younger, put together men didn't blink an eye. Women over 33 and loser young men absolutely hated it. Older men loved it, I mean, they would shoot me grins and even occasional thumbs up!
joelsuf 2018-11-08 11:33:06
I think a lot of mistakes people make with SP is that they'll swap one form of SP out for another without respecting their individuality. This happened to me when I discovered PUAism in 2006 and again when I discovered MGTOW in 2012. The best thing to do is to see what kinds of values, principles etc. each form of SP offers to see what helps you the most.
joelsuf 2018-11-08 11:38:42
I had a straight up smokeshow on my arm for 4.5 years, 20 years younger than me. We got going when she was 19.Nice, I've been scoping out the local college chicks near me as well. I should have never moved lol.
Younger women had no problem with it.Yeah most chicks under 25 don't really care about any of that stuff unless they are SJdubs.
Younger, put together men didn’t blink an eye.Young and successful dudes don't really have the time to worry about anything like that. Hell I'm NOT successful (yet) and I don't care.
Women over 33 and loser men absolutely hated it.That's because these are the two types of people who get butthurt over everything and get bitter and jealous. Even older dudes who are losers get butthurt.
Older men loved it, I mean, they would shoot me grins and even occasional thumbs up!They might do that on the surface but a lot of them get jealous and butthurt as well. But if they are successful they won't care.
xsplat 2018-11-08 15:35:32
I don't often hear people talk about the positives of anger as a psychological tool. I've had that idea as well, but only so far as it helps people break romantic bonds. It's primitive, but effective. Getting angry at an ex helps people to move on, and studies show we re-wire our memories to be more negative in order to assist in moving on and forming new pair bonds. There are alternate pathways to stepping outside of habits, including the habits of social programming. Drugs for altered states and meditation for both altered states and traits can get us stepped outside of habits. I can't really get any hard on for being angry at myself. Even as I see stumbles and mistakes and obvious bad choices. Perhaps because of my Buddhist background. In any case, if anger is a useful and working tool, then use it, but there are also other tools. Hard to describe them. Sort of stepping outside via curiosity and constant pressure on the curiosity.
JudoJohn 2018-11-08 18:55:01
I don’t often hear people talk about the positives of anger as a psychological tool. I’ve had that idea as well, but only so far as it helps people break romantic bonds. It’s primitive, but effective. Getting angry at an ex helps people to move on, and studies show we re-wire our memories to be more negative in order to assist in moving on and forming new pair bonds.One of the things I like about BD, outside of him also being an old metalhead, is that his focus and systems are all about happiness. I don't know if you've picked up on one of his most important posts, but it has to do with the idea that the less compliant you are to a woman in your life, the more attracted you are to her. Further, the whole logic of LSNFTE is that she gets frustrated and commits to some other guy, but she's still attracted so there's a decent to good chance you'll see her again. The stuff you're talking about is spot in in terms of main stream, but the Alpha 2.0 lifestyle isn't exactly about dissolving one pair bond to create another.
Vanilla Boy 2018-11-08 21:23:40
I think a lot of mistakes people make with SP is that they’ll swap one form of SP out for another without respecting their individuality.Ya, that's exactly what I was referring to in an earlier post, which one person hilariously misinterpreted as a personal attack. Guys try to escape from SP, then find a group of people doing the same thing. And then they get sucked in to group think and try to express opinions that other people in the group will accept. The goal should be to think for yourself and form your own ideas. Honestly, on this forum, sometimes I admire the posters who argue back with BD more than the ones who just agree. But I draw the line at religious fanatics, slut shamers, and nationalists who regurgitate "contrarian" opinions that have no reference to their own personal experience. Honestly, Jack, I think I'd already forgotten you existed. I wasn't referring to you at all. Sorry if I got under your skin. I admit that in the earlier post, I should have kept my opinions to myself. My fingers just typed in the words when I wasn't looking. PS. Oh, and incels who blame the world, fate, god and genetics for their failures in life!
joelsuf 2018-11-09 12:20:45
incels who blame the world, fate, god and genetics for their failures in life!I for one am starting to go easy on incels. They have been sold on MANY dreams because of being raised by the internet instead of their folks. They're souls have been stolen by what I call the three P's: Pornography, PUAism, and philosophy. All three of those revolve around anomalies at best (for example, PUAs saying that looks don't matter when they account for probably half of a man's attractiveness), and excessive spectating without action (and dopamine overdosing) at worst (which is what pornography and philosophies do). Alpha 2s like us actually go on and do stuff and don't give a shit about stuff around us (but are also aware). Incels have been told by lots of "convincing" sources that taking action doesn't matter. Their nihilistic lifestyles prove this.
johnnybegood 2018-11-09 15:23:38
Societal programming is necessary for society ultimately. Well, that is the initial intention. Drive on the right side of the road. Have social skills. Don't smell. Don't be a thief. Ultimately, cooperative societies (take Japan as an extreme example in terms of city cleanliness) fare better. Societies that are cooperative, yet mercilessly vengeful and law enforcing, generally fare better in terms of raw power. Too Machavellian or egoist? Then in-fighting leads the tribe to get swallowed by cooperative tribes. TOO accommodating? Free riders/ lazies/ crooks drag down the society without consequence. The two sides must be carefully balanced. But enough riffing on society. There is positive social programming. Cooperative beliefs. THEN there is negative social programming. It exists either to forward someone's power (propaganda, see Scientology, most religion, don't be a slut, support the troops, join up, etc) --- then there's believes that given you temporary happiness and delusion (there's a Santa Claus, there's a God, I failed because my parents, I failed because society, it's the women that are the problem, I'm the greatest, I'm always right). Many of these are to protect the ego. Religion is due to fear of mortality, loss of loved ones, nihilism (no point to anything), and on and on. Humans instinctively follow social programming. There was a study with chimps (very closely related to us). There was a ladder with bananas at the top. Every time a monkey went up to eat the bananas, a bunch of water turned on and sprayed the whole tribe. Soon, every monkey would tried to go up the ladder would be SLAPPED by his tribe-mates. How dare you! You will cause bad consequences. The researchers then turned off the sprinkler system permanently. They slowly replaced the original monkeys, one by one. Eventually, the monkeys ... were STILL slapping the shit outta each other every time one went for the bananas. Even though ... NONE at that point had any fucking idea why. Now, many times social rules are good. Monkey see = monkey do is really ancestral knowledge. You don't go by Krag rock because there are fucking venomous snakes there. But it's good to question everything. Question even yourself. A LOT of what you believe is self-serving, ego-protective bullshit. And by self-serving, I mean it makes you feel good in the moment, but lying to yourself seldom actually helps you.
Blackdragon 2018-11-09 16:53:52
Societal programming is necessary for society ultimately.For the second time in this thread: Societal Programming is fine as long as it's objective and reality-based, like "don't murder people." The problem is 95% of the time it is not so.
C Lo 2018-11-09 17:41:24
Further, the whole logic of LSNFTE is that she gets frustrated and commits to some other guy, but she’s still attracted so there’s a decent to good chance you’ll see her again.Man, this whole concept is what brought me to this blog. Getting some random woman back I was just nuts over who was cheating. More on her in a minute. Right after I got separated, I got involved with this lady who turned out to be someone else's wife. That was drama, and I don't mess around with women I work with or married women because this always leads to drama, so I ditched her in a not nice way. Figure that's the end of that one. Who sends me a request via LinkedIn last week? One guess. Bye Felicia. That other woman who was cheating? Someone in the "ignore her after she dumps you" made a comment that what was most likely to happen is when she comes back, you won't want her. She's not come back (yet), but after what I figured out about that whole thing after we split, he was right, I don't want her.
Honestly, Jack, I think I’d already forgotten you existed. I wasn’t referring to you at all.I Certainly didn't! He's thin skinned, insecure, and not the most self aware (what Tradcon is?) but he's not a coward and I really look forward to his posts.
Jack Outside the Box 2018-11-09 18:45:39
(what Tradcon is?)Please explain how I'm a tradcon! My girlfriend and I are in an open relationship, and she recently achieved 100 lays. Hardly the 1950s in my house. If you think I'm a tradcon (when I'm the exact opposite), it is you who lacks self awareness, or you're just breathtakingly ignorant about the definition of words! Please Google terms like "tradcon" before throwing them around willy-nilly! Spoiler: There's no such thing as a sex-positive tradcon.
Jack Outside the Box 2018-11-09 18:59:42
I don’t mess around with women I work with or married womenYou won't sleep with married women??? HAHAHA!!!!! Tell me again: Which one of us is the traditional conservative???
because this always leads to drama,No, it doesn't. I've been sleeping with married women for over a decade. But I actually know how to avoid getting caught by the husband. Plus, I'm not a pussy! Sleeping with married women is the best and most passionate sex you will ever have. You are missing out big time! If you're ready to shed your puritanical tradcon programming on this issue, let me know.
JudoJohn 2018-11-09 19:07:16
But I actually know how to avoid getting caught by the husband.Tips (outside of traveling women at hotels)?
Vanilla Boy 2018-11-09 19:12:52
I wouldn't call Jack a trad con by any means. Oddly, I actually find his stuff on women and relationships pretty solid. If he stuck to that, he'd be great. Just too many long posts on political stuff of the type you can find in the comments section of any newspaper. I'd be just as annoyed if he was promoting Bernie Sanders and Black Lives Matter or whatever. It's just parochial politics, it takes up a lot of space, and it's totally off topic. But no biggie, in the future I'll just skim over them. He is definitely thin skinned and reactive, that's for sure. Not really very Alpha 2.0 male characteristics, but we've all got areas we need to work on.
JudoJohn 2018-11-09 19:15:15
the comments section of any newspaperThat is fucking hilarious. I'm trying to sort out if you're a digital native, or what. I'm guessing no. Hell, neither am I, so no offense.
Vanilla Boy 2018-11-09 19:49:02
I’m trying to sort out if you’re a digital native, or what. I’m guessing no. Hell, neither am I, so no offense.'Fraid not. Everything I know about 21st century pop culture comes from conversations with FBs. It's how I stay in touch.
C Lo 2018-11-10 07:28:45
If you’re ready to shed your puritanical tradcon programming on this issue, let me know.Its strictly logistical. I live in a smallish town and have a high local profile. It’d be impossible to keep it quiet. And I really, really don’t like drama.
C Lo 2018-11-10 08:57:42
I wouldn’t call Jack a trad con by any means.Neither would he, but it's still true. The only difference between that fundamentalist Christian islamaphobe right wing Tradcon you stereotypically associate with the label and Jack is that Jack has found a new religion and endorsed hedonism. He's still telling you how to live your life and mocking you for not doing it his way. IMO, of course.
John 2018-11-14 13:48:16
You won’t sleep with married women??? HAHAHA!!!!! Tell me again: Which one of us is the traditional conservative?? No, it doesn’t. I’ve been sleeping with married women for over a decade. But I actually know how to avoid getting caught by the husband. Plus, I’m not a pussy!Yeah I don't either. No wait I'm fucking one tonight. Nevermind..
Mnae on 2018-12-12 17:42:08
Society is ever changing. What if one day, a more open attitude towards sex and relationships – yours, perhaps – becomes the norm? Would then that not be societal programming?The programming gets updates and over long spans, overhauls. It's still programming. Society is never going to lay out objective reality in front of you — only a brave and really independent mind will do that for you. Also, societal programming is absolutely needed and helpful, for those who need it. I wonder if anyone here imagines what would happen of all of a sudden all societal programming were shut down *** What I really like about this post is BD admits reality about people is hateful. He hasn't always done so.