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The Ideal Home Setup For An OLTR Marriage
In terms of day-to-day logistics, including living arrangements, the objective of traditional monogamous marriage (TMM) is to combine your entire life with another human being and do so in the ways everyone else does it, so as to A) fit in to society and B) fulfill the Disney fantasies of the female (and to be fair, sometimes of the man too, particularly if he’s an extreme beta male).
-By Caleb Jones
Maximize long-term happiness. Minimize potential for conflict. Maintain as much personal freedom for the two participants as possible.
This means that the logistical setup of your home under an OLTR Marriage is going to look a little different than those in a TMM.
Pink Firefly and I have just finished moving into our new house. (I use the word “our,” but the lease is 100% mine, as per OLTR rules.) I got a two-year lease on the home so we can finally move out of the Collapsing USA in January 2021, per my five flags plan.
When looking for a new house, I made sure it had all the aspects conducive for an OLTR marriage, even though some of them were a little weird. When I took my month-long trip to South America in November, Pink Firefly continued the house search, looking for something she would like, within my budget, and that also adhered to my requirements.
Thankfully, she found one: a beautiful 3800 square-foot four-bedroom home at the top of a mountain with fantastic, near 180-degree views of the Columbia Gorge, including the entire valley, river, and mountains from every room in the house. It's exactly how I envisioned my ideal home would be when visualizing my goals.
Don’t get hung up on the size or the cost of this house. I make more than enough money to afford the rent (it’s only a tiny percentage of my after-tax income) and I’ve already set aside the money to pay the next eight months of rent into a savings account called “Future Rent.” So I’m good.
That’s aspect number one, which should apply to you regardless of your living situation. Only get a home you can A) easily afford, and B) you know exactly where the money is coming from in order to pay the rent or mortgage. You also should have zero debt. Don’t get an expensive house just because some loan officer is saying you can afford one or because your wife is nagging you for one.
Back when I was in a TMM as an ignorant beta, I made this mistake. I had a nice house back then too, but the mortgage on that damn thing was around 40% of my income and I had pretty much zero savings and I had to support a family of four and I had a shitload of debt on top of all that. In other words, I was the typical stupid American. I had a nice house but I was constantly stressed out.
Today, it’s the exact opposite. I can have a nice house and actually enjoy it with zero stress. I purposely waited many years before getting into a nice house like this. As always, it was all according to a specific, long-term plan instead of my emotional whims.
Next are the OLTR marriage aspects of the house. When I publish the book on OLTR marriage management in two years, I will go into great detail on this topic, but today I’ll give you a sneak peak.
Here are some of the OLTR marriage aspects I wanted that this house has:
1. Separate offices / work areas. In this house, I have my own office, obviously. However, I do not share this office with Pink Firefly. She actually has her own office, so she never needs to use mine. I want to work in focused peace and so does she. Her office is on an entirely different floor, which is great. Her office is upstairs, mine is downstairs. (I don’t like having two stories but that was one of the areas in which I compromised.)
2. Separate bathrooms. I've mentioned this before. PF and I have two completely separate bathrooms. Nothing will cause arguments like sharing a bathroom full-time with a female you're romantically involved with. I realize some of you have done this in the past and had zero problems, but you got lucky. We each have a full bathroom that has two sinks each, plus a toilet and a shower. PF can shower and get ready for as long as she wants (it usually takes her around 2.5 hours to get ready) without inconveniencing me at all. (EDIT/Correction: She used to take 2.5 hours so that's what I'm used to. A few months ago she made some changes and now it takes her about 1.5 hours in the morning to get ready, on a typical morning at least.)
3. Separate kitchens. Sharing a kitchen with a woman is also a common source of petty arguments and frustrations with a married couple. In this house, we have a nice kitchen upstairs that I gave to Pink Firefly. It’s “hers” unless I need to use it to cook something special, which is not typical. Downstairs, there is a bar area with a sink. A sink is all you need when you’re a man to create your own kitchen; all you need to do is get a microwave and a small refrigerator/freezer, which I have done, and bam, there’s your kitchen.
When I eat, I heat up some vegetables in the microwave, eat some tuna with mayo right out of the can, quickly eat while I stand and watch some business or investing YouTube videos (from a TV or tablet mounted on the wall), scarf as fast as I can, throw everything in the trash (I only use paper plates and bowls; they don't require washing), and get right back to work. The entire process takes me a grand total about about 6-8 minutes. A sink, microwave, and small refrigerator/freezer is all I need.
When PF eats, her being a woman and very feminine (and a more normal person), it’s a huge production. She needs to gather and prepare a bunch of ingredients, cook food in a pan, prepare it all, prepare a beautiful plate, sit at the dining room table, leisurely eat while relaxed, then spend a bunch of time cleaning everything up (though she has recently adopted my time management technique of using paper plates; smart girl). Very different than how I eat, and she always requires a bigger kitchen and more room, which is fine with me. (We have designated times where we eat together, since Pink Firefly’s primary love language is time spent together, but you get what I mean.)
PF and I, having our own kitchen areas, can set up our plates, food, silverware, kitchen gadgets, and whatever else exactly the way we want without having to compromise with anyone. Awesome.
4. A spare bedroom. PF and I both sleep together in the master bedroom, but now we have an extra bedroom fully set up with a bed where guests can sleep and where I can sleep if there’s ever a problem. I haven’t ever needed to do this, and I may never need to, but it’s there if I need it (or if she needs it).
5. A king-size mattress with a deep pillow top. If you sleep with a woman in a queen-sized bed, it's too small unless you're both midgets. You're going to regularly poke her, bump into her, and she to you, all fucking night long. I realize a lot of people just get used to this, but happiness is not about tolerating shitty scenarios.
We were in a queen bed for the past year, and since upgrading to a king (something I delayed because it wasn't in the budget until now) it's been a world of difference. I can spread out as much as I want and I never even touch her. It's great. (And if I want to touch her for some cuddle time or sexy time, I just roll over once and I'm there.)
Moreover, you need a deep pillow-top mattress. This means that if she moves around, you'll barely feel it. Otherwise every time she moves, the entire mattress will shake and you'll feel it when you don't want to. Now, PF can squirm around all she likes and I don't feel a thing.
Granted, a king-sized mattresses with a nice pillow top is expensive, but as I've said a thousand times, you shouldn't settle down with a woman until you are at least 35 years old. The ability to drop a few thousand bucks on a nice mattress you'll use for 10+ years shouldn't be a challenge for you by then.
6. Separate TV areas. Upstairs, there’s a big TV set up in the fancy living room. That’s Pink Firefly’s area. She's a girl, so she likes things cute, fancy, and inconvenient. I'm a man, so I like them ugly and functional. There’s a more casual family room downstairs with a TV, which is my area. The downstairs encompasses this room, my “kitchen,” the spare room, and my office. I told PF when we got the house that the downstairs is “my domain” while the upstairs is hers. Of course she can use my downstairs family room whenever she wants. (But not my kitchen! That’s set up the way I want it. She has her own kitchen.)
Don’t think that just because we have these separate areas means we never spend time together. Of course we do. It’s just that we can have our own areas, set up the way we like, without having to compromise at all with another human we live with. Regardless of how much you love each other or how well you get along, that other person can (and always will) have different opinions and needs regarding how things are set up.
All the drama, arguments, and resentment most co-habiting couples have is because they have to fucking share everything, compromise on everything, and constantly get in each other’s way. This won’t happen (or at least won’t happen nearly as much) if you have a home set up for maximum freedom and happiness instead of societal conformity.
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Kjell 2019-01-03 05:45:06
Sounds like a great house and set up. Congratulations BD! But I think the kitchen rules are a little extreme/silly. Kitchen to me is more of a common area.
Freevoulous 2019-01-03 06:38:43
Honestly BD, im greatly surprised with your suboptimal feeding habits. Aren't you THE guy who encourages others to focus on happiness, efficiency and long term good? Doing it the way you do not only saps away on your happiness (because well prepared meal eaten slowly and deliberately is FUN), but I suspect it is the main problem behind your weight issues. You would be healthier, slimmer and happier if you allowed yourself to accumulate "meal time" into 1 or 2 longer meals that you would prepare perfectly and then eat mindfully. Heck, you would probably actually save some time!
VSmilex 2019-01-03 06:50:36
Agree with the previous poster. This type of eating habits is not "manly", but just unhealthy (if not gross). To look good on the outside, you should pay attention of what you put inside.
CCMidwest 2019-01-03 07:31:09
What about vehicle space? Serious question. I let this cause me massive drama in the past with TMM. Driveway? Garage?
John 2019-01-03 07:35:46
Vanilla Boy 2019-01-03 07:40:26
Separate kitchens may not be QUITE as important as bathrooms, but pretty close. Bathrooms and kitchens are always flashpoints. Ask any AirBnB host who actually lives on the premises. I think what BD has is the next best thing to living in different houses entirely.
Sailormack 2019-01-03 07:46:01
BD First botox shots and now microwaved food? Mind. Literally. Blown.
John 2019-01-03 07:47:09
I see the seperate kitchen as great way to escape the arguments about putting shit away, clean up, breakage, and who buys what... Don't see cooking as an issue. garage space as the above poster stated is very important if you have limited space.
Doing it the way you do not only saps away on your happiness (because well prepared meal eaten slowly and deliberately is FUN), but I suspect it is the main problem behind your weight issues.I am skinny (size 31" waist at 50), stay in shape, good health, and eat the same way. I shed 70lbs 10 years ago just eating a can of chicken and veggies for lunch every day and kept it off. Nothing wrong with eating a can of tuna and veggies. Eitherway, I doubt he only eats tuna every day.
skills 2019-01-03 08:17:13
I had couple of 5k-7k dollar king mattresses and i had the zinus memory foam king (under $400) the zinus is slightly more comfortable (my point is you do not need to spend a lot of money on mattresses with the new technology) https://www.amazon.com/Zinus-Memory-Premium-Cloud-like-Mattress/dp/B012H0KBYK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1546532068&sr=8-3&keywords=zinus+cloud+memory+foam+mattress+king
Jared 2019-01-03 08:57:46
Ah, give me a break you food snobs. In my experience, food isn't that important. Probably only macronutrients and calories matter, if you're trying to lose weight. BD is all about time management. The less time spent on food, the better. Save the fancy meals for restaurants and traveling.
CrabRangoon 2019-01-03 09:01:42
I'd go a step further if I were to ever "cohabitate" with a a woman. I would want a 2 flat situation where we have our own "apartments" so to speak. Each unit is completely separate but you're in the same building so there's no commuting to see each other BUT you also get your own space when needed.
AlphaOmega 2019-01-03 09:22:17
I find this strange. My approach has always been that its my house/I am paying the rent and therefore I decide all the arrangements. Every woman has understood and accepted this. Of course she can give advice but if I don't like it I veto it with "Its my house" and then she has nothing to say.
it usually takes her around 2.5 hours to get readyI've never met a woman who takes anywhere near this amount. This sounds mental to the pathological level. She's older though, maybe older women take more time to apply all they're creams and stuff, I wouldn't know.
3. Separate kitchens.One of the main points and advantages of living with a woman, at least for me, is that, at least most of the time, she cooks for me something nice that would be way too complex/time consuming for me to do and so that generally speaking I dont have to do it. Therefore I would not imagine having to ever go to a kitchen. Things like small fridge (with beers) and hot water kettle I could set up in my office.
A spare bedroom.This is a must, if only for the guests if no other reasons. Does your in house office qualify as a space where you can bring your FB since its your office? Or is that not allowed since its in the same house actually? And if you had your office in a seperate building right next door to your main house would this be a place where you would bring FBs? This part is a little unclear to me but I guess if she doesn't like you taking them home she wouldnt like this either.
Blackdragon 2019-01-03 10:04:22
I suspect it is the main problem behind your weight issues.Please explain how quickly eating broccoli and tuna is the main problem behind my weight issues. Can't wait for your answer, which I'm sure will be objective, logical, and based in verifiable science.
You would be healthier, slimmer and happier if you allowed yourself to accumulate “meal time” into 1 or 2 longer meals that you would prepare perfectly and then eat mindfully.I laughed so loudly at that that PF heard me in the other room. If I eat broccoli and tuna quickly I'll get fat, but if I eat it slowly and "mindfully" I will lose all my weight. Hilarious. I love this woo woo shit. Keep 'em coming though.
Heck, you would probably actually save some time!Spending more time eating food will save me time... Oh my god... Haha... This is great. Please, keep going.
Garage?Large two-car garage + somewhat minimalistic lifestyle (at least for Americans) so both of as can park our own cars plus have plenty of room for storage.
I am skinny (size 31″ waist at 50), stay in shape, good health, and eat the same way.Yup. One of my business clients eats even faster than I do, and he's skinny and fit as fuck. Freevoulous' comment is based in opinion and emotion, not fact. That's why it was so entertaining.
The less time spent on food, the better.Correct, as long as you're not eating garbage. Focus on your Mission, not biological functions. That applies to eating, going to the bathroom, having sex, etc. Get that biological bullshit done (with exceptions, like going to a nice restaurant), then get back to work on your life.
My approach has always been that its my house/I am paying the rent and therefore I decide all the arrangements. Every woman has understood and accepted this. Of course she can give advice but if I don’t like it I veto it with “Its my house” and then she has nothing to say.Not much different than what I've done. The things I let PF do/have are things I really don't give a shit about (with the one exception of having two stories, and even that I may have still done without her in order to get this nice house). I have a feeling you give a shit about more living arrangement aspects than I do (but I could be wrong).
I’ve never met a woman who takes anywhere near this amount.Yes. PF is extreme in this area. Again, I don't care. (If I did, she would never have made it to OLTR status.) Again, you need to stop giving a shit about these details. Easier to be happy that way.
joelsuf 2019-01-03 10:20:18
When I eat, I heat up some vegetables in the microwave, eat some tuna with mayo right out of the canBD is awesome, but eating like this isn't. Zero carbs is the way to go. The guy who wrote the article is shredded and has a really good physique. With the money he has, he should be grilling steaks outside daily. I know I would be. Microwaving anything is bad. Takes the nutrients out of everything and it will literally mutate food. I'm slowly turning my back on veggies, they're not necessary. Sometimes I'll crack and hit the carbs up but usually all I eat is chicken and steak.
joelsuf 2019-01-03 10:27:22
Please explain how quickly eating broccoli and tuna is the main problem behind my weight issues.Eating very quickly will lower metabolism, especially when it comes to carbs like broccoli and stuff like canned tuna which may not have a ton of carbs but still kind of has carbs. Everyone I know who eats really fast has really bad weight issues. The people I know who take their time? They're jacked.
Giulio 2019-01-03 10:54:21
Where do you meet/have sex with your FBs?
JudoJohn 2019-01-03 10:57:43
Microwaving anything is bad.Microwave food is bad. Nuking veggies and finishing them under a broiler is great.
I’m slowly turning my back on veggies, they’re not necessary. Sometimes I’ll crack and hit the carbs upVeggies != Carbs. Veggies have carbs, but many things otherwise, including fiber and vitamins. The idea is to eat whole veggies (carrots, celery, broccoli, etc.) rather than seeds (corn, wheat).
usually all I eat is chicken and steak.Hell yeah. Costco bone in skin on chicken thighs are $1.10 a pound. Marinate 1000 different ways, roast for 45 minutes, and you got at least 2 meals. And steaks are actually great pan fried and finished with a butter sauce.
Hilarious. I love this woo woo shit. Keep ’em coming though.The non woo woo explanation has to do with nutrient uptake. When you enjoy a satisfying meal, your brain sends signals to your gut saying "hey, that was pretty good." This is an empirical claim. The study I recall from a while ago basically gave test subjects a meal or an equally nutritious bland paste, and the ones who enjoyed the meal apparently had better nutrient uptake as measured with blood tests. Enjoying meals also lends to satiety, especially if there is enough fat in the meal. Dietary fat is wonderful. Wolfing down low/no fat food will just make one hungrier, partly because of brain signals, partly because low/no fat food usually has way too much sugar. I just have to ask, though....while I see this is an ideal set up for an OLTR marriage, when one is more interested in MLTR/FB's, is running a tight household strong EFA (I don't need a domestic unit) or Provider Hunter bait?
Bulma78 2019-01-03 10:58:24
Sorry this is off the intended topic too, but I don’t believe people gain extra weight due to too many carbs via eating too many vegetables. (However, I do believe that people gain weight from carbs via eating processed foods such as french fries, bread, sugar, etc.) Vegetables contain fiber, vitamins, etc. Sure some carbs, but in a good way, because it is in its natural, un-processed form, like sweet potatoes are one type. Vegetables are believed to prevent cancer as well. Not that I can provide instant proof on any of this to anyone here online. I’ve read Dr. Mercola’s books so I just get my info there. (Not trying to start an argument either or say that anyone is wrong or right….I’m just going by what I’ve read,.......and true, there are many, many theories out there on health, weight gain/loss, etc.) I’ve heard that eating while standing up or scarfing food down very quickly may not be a good thing, but I have nothing to back that up at all.
johnnybegood 2019-01-03 11:42:27
This is kind of hilarious. It's like roommates but each has a separate floor. Which never typically happens, because the entire point of a roommate is you can't afford your own "floor" -- but of course with a live-in wife, she's not there to split costs but out of convenience of some kind. For those of us who don't make six figures yet, this may be an interesting idea to buy a 2-story house in an expensive city but have a friend/ roommate rent out the upstairs (hopefully fully self sufficient) space. Yes, most of the pressure points (in any roommate/ wife situation) center around the kitchen and the bathroom. Sure, other common spaces too (general cleanliness) but not as much.
Cynthia 2019-01-03 12:08:10
Future housing arrangement goals!!
Sean 2019-01-03 12:16:02
You should get an air fryer! Then your kitchen will be complete. Sharing one kitchen with anyone is the worst lol
JohnMurdoch 2019-01-03 12:59:43
Correct, as long as you’re not eating garbage. Focus on your Mission, not biological functions. That applies to eating, going to the bathroom, having sex, etc. Get that biological bullshit done(with exceptions, like going to a nice restaurant), then get back to work on your lifeYeah I would be extremely unhappy if I had a similar eating habit as you BD. Sometimes I do it like that, when I dont have time or dont wanna cook or whatever, but usually a good meal is one of the highlights of my day and cooking is one of my favorite hobbies. Need to learn eating on paper plates tho because cleaning afterwards is a hassle. I wish there were paper pans available...
Veggies != Carbs. Veggies have carbs, but many things otherwise, including fiber and vitamins.Actually several veggies have almost zero carbs and the ones remaining are mostly fibers. Things like broccoli wont take you out of a keto diet as it doesnt qualify as carbs (BD mealplan is something a lot of people on keto diet do for a fast meal. I believe he is cutting carbs). And @Joelsuf beware of eating only meat, in the long term it might develop some digestive problems, even some serious shit. I know a dude that had diverticulitis and the doctor blamed it on his meat-only diet, and former UFC heavyweight Brock Lesnar almost died of it and blamed on eating only steaks as well. Mix in some veggies for fiber and drink lots of water or you might clog your digestive system
Gang 2019-01-03 13:06:49
Seriously you don't see how eating tuna and mayo is making you fat?!?
Gang 2019-01-03 13:21:52
Focus on your Mission, not biological functions. That applies to eating, going to the bathroom, having sex, etc. Get that biological bullshit doneWhat!?! I surely want to take all my time and more when I have sex and I couldn't care less about a stupid mission to make money in comparison to sex. Mission that isn't even necessarily a passion. I mean your passion is writing stories but that's not exactly what your mission is for instance. That statement really feels to me like only a workaholic or someone obsessed with money could relate to that, I am the radical opposite. I hate working and I don't care much for money (as long as I don't have debts). This lifestyle where you don't make time for the simple pleasurable things of life, such as swallowing gross food in 6 minutes only to spend all your time making more and more money feels miserable to me. Until now I didn't realise how much of a workaholic you are. More power to you, but I really don't want that in my life.
Gang 2019-01-03 13:29:27
It's a 4 bedrooms house. 1 bedroom is the king size bed. 1 bedroom is the guest room. 1 bedroom is your office. 1 bedroom is PF office. 1 bedroom is PF girly TV room. That's 5 bedrooms? Or it's really a 4 bedroom 2 living rooms house? Plus 1 living room (yours). 2 kitchen 2 bathrooms Who cleans all that gigantic crap? Please tell me you pay a cleaning service. How many hours per week?
Gang 2019-01-03 13:33:44
What about the separate place (like a studio for instance) where you fuck your FB or soft next your OLTR wife if needed (hopefully not necessary). It's the most important of the living set up for a live in OLTR but you're not talking about it at all in this article. I have so many questions about this separate place.
CW 2019-01-03 13:38:38
@BD I've included some quick research below but there is some real reason to consider the speed of eating. Consider your problem is always being hungry could theoretically be an indication of nutrient deficiency and poor digestion of food and nutrients (also loss of nutrients from cooking methods / multiple cookings like microwave usage). I think based on your experiences of having to constantly fight your hunger cravings you could make a connection to satiation being an important variable in your weight loss. I say all this based on my experience becoming a ripped endomorph with an insatiable appetite (which I'm willing to prove privately).
At the University of Rhode Island, researchers examined how eating speed affected the early stages of digestive processing by observing 60 young adults eat a meal. -Slow eaters consumed 2 ounces of food per minute. -Medium-speed eaters consumed 2.5 ounces of food per minute. -Fast eaters consumed 3.1 ounces per minute. They also took larger bites and chewed less before swallowing. This means that not only are fast eaters putting more food down in a given amount of time, that food isn’t as well-processed. ... Digestion starts in the mouth, so large bites that are inadequately chewed will be more difficult for your stomach to turn into chyme – the liquid mix of partially digested food, hydrochloric acid, digestive enzymes, and water that passes through the pyloric valve on its way to elimination.Source.
Blackdragon 2019-01-03 13:59:30
This is the last comment I'll make regarding diet since it's off-topic to this thread. This has been the most fun comment thread in a long time. The pearls of wisdom in this thread we've learned so far regarding diet... - Eating fish and vegetables quickly will make you fat!!! - Eating fish and vegetables is not low carb!!! - Using a microwave to cook vegetables will make you fat!!! - Eating a spoonful of mayo with your fish will make you fat!!! Hahahaha. Oh man, this is fun. Food/fitness is such an irrational hot button for so many people.
I think based on your experiences of having to constantly fight your hunger cravings you could make a connection to satiation being an important variable in your weight loss.If we're talking about pizza or spaghetti then I completely agree. I'm talking about a can of tuna and some broccoli. I promise you that the speed at which I eat a single can tuna and some broccoli isn't going to make me significantly fatter or skinnier. Haha. Good times. Thanks for the laugh this morning guys.
John 2019-01-03 14:00:50
Consider your problem is always being hungry could theoretically be an indication of nutrient deficiency and poor digestion of food and nutrientsThis is one of those missing the forest fro the trees. People don't get fat because they eat 20 mins faster, include a little mayo with their tuna, eat rice, unprocessed carbs, and put their veggies in the microwave instead of steaming it. They get fat because they eat McDonald french fries, candy bars, pizza, syrups, hamburgers the size of buicks, chips, sit on their asses all day, and then on top all that also eat cans of tuna (or any other lean protein) with mayo, rice, baked potatoes, and microwaved veggies. If all he did was eat cans of tuna with may0 (OH NO!!!!!! not oil,vinegar, and egg!!!!), and veggies he'd fucking die from only eating about 1000 calories a day. Good lord where do people come up with this stupid shit?
Blackdragon 2019-01-03 14:18:59
This sounds mental to the pathological level.Please do not insult Pink Firefly, even indirectly. Not as smart thing to do here. Also, that 2.5 hours thing is old; she used to take that long so that's what I'm accustomed to, but a few months ago she made some changes and she's down to about 1.5 prep time in the morning to get ready on a typical day. (I've updated the blog post with this correction as well.)
She’s older though, maybe older women take more time to apply all they’re creams and stuff, I wouldn’t know.You make it sound like she's 63. She's 39 years old and looks about 28-29 with no wrinkles anywhere on her face or anywhere else on her body. And I'm not a woman, but I don't think a few "creams" would take an additional 1-2 hours to apply. By the way, for those of you who keep asking me to post pictures of Pink Firefly, it's comments like the above one that make her reluctant to let me show you pics, so next time you're wondering why she doesn't give me permission to show pics of her publicly, remember comments like this. That's the reason. (As I've said before, PF is not a thick-skinned asshole like me who is well accustomed to mass amounts of internet criticism. She's a normal person.)
Where do you meet/have sex with your FBs?As I've said several times before, I have an office a short distance away set up like a small apartment where I do that.
while I see this is an ideal set up for an OLTR marriage, when one is more interested in MLTR/FB’s, is running a tight household strong EFA (I don’t need a domestic unit) or Provider Hunter bait?Provider Hunter bait. But if you run a tight ship and that's how you are, just do it. If women want more than you can or want to provide them, that's their problem.
It’s a 4 bedrooms house. 1 bedroom is the king size bed. 1 bedroom is the guest room. 1 bedroom is your office. 1 bedroom is PF office. 1 bedroom is PF girly TV room.Incorrect. The 4th bedroom is the fitness room with my weights and exercise bike. (Which I'm sure will make me fat, like my tuna and microwave and spoonful of mayo.) PF's office is not considered a "bedroom" since it does not have a closet. So it's 4 bedrooms + her office. The girly TV room is the main upstairs living room. The large downstairs family room is mine.
Plus 1 living room (yours). 2 kitchen 2 bathroomsNo. 3 bathrooms; one master bathroom, one upstairs bathroom, and one downstairs bathroom which is mine.
Who cleans all that gigantic crap?Pink Firefly.
Please tell me you pay a cleaning service.I used to use a service before Pink Firefly moved in. However, getting a cleaning service again is pretty high on the list for one of our financial goals, in addition to getting a personal chef. I should have those things in place by this summer (hopefully).
Antekirtt 2019-01-03 15:24:42
Zero carbs is the way to go. The guy who wrote the article is shredded and has a really good physique.Very bad logic. Keto is completely unnecessary; it works for some, not so for others. People who just want to be very fit and very lean are better off gradually reducing their carbs and if you can get down to 100g of carbs per day (the rest being eg 160g of protein and 160g of fat, for a total of about 2500 kcal) sustainably, just stay there. I eat WAY more carbs than that and I'm reasonably lean (able to do pull-ups and one-arm pushups).
TomP 2019-01-03 15:27:19
That statement really feels to me like only a workaholic or someone obsessed with money could relate to that, I am the radical opposite. I hate working and I don’t care much for money (as long as I don’t have debts). This lifestyle where you don’t make time for the simple pleasurable things of life, such as swallowing gross food in 6 minutes only to spend all your time making more and more money feels miserable to me.Amen to that. Couldnt pinpoint the thing that made me scratch my head whilst reading that blog post but thats exactly that. For a guy who is focused on happinness, its odd to have adapted live-to-work and not work-to-live type of mentality. Yuck!
Blackdragon 2019-01-03 17:06:42
Amen to that. Couldnt pinpoint the thing that made me scratch my head whilst reading that blog post but thats exactly that. For a guy who is focused on happinness, its odd to have adapted live-to-work and not work-to-live type of mentality. Yuck!Do you think my work activities make me unhappy? I teach happiness. Do you think I would spend any significant time doing something that would make me unhappy? Do you think all I do is work and nothing else? (No fun, no travel, no sex, no family, etc...) Do you think everyone, including me, finds happiness in the exact same way you find happiness? Would you like to compare my average level of happiness on a typical day of my life to your average level of happiness on a typical day of your life? Sometimes you need to stop and engage in a little rational thinking before you post a comment on a blog. It might help.
dc88 2019-01-03 17:50:26
BD, I went through some of your OLTR materials. You stress separate finances, which I totally agree. What about future inheritance? Although I've built my own 7 figure net worth, I stand to inherit 8 figures in family assets one day. Do you have any resources or opinions directed to protecting future inheritances? I'm assuming an Alpha 2.0 will have some sort of conversation with their parents about structuring their wills so it conforms to Alpha 2.0 asset protection? What about family asset planning in the sense you get hit by a bus? I've had discussions with my parents and if one of them gets hit by a bus that legally the assets get transferred to the surviving spouse (in the past you mentioned that you and PF are married). In your scenario, I'd assume you want your stuff going to your children, since PF is not their biological mother or guardian. If PF gets your assets if you pass, then she could in theory deny any of it from your children. In theory, this could happen to me. Mom passes, all assets go to dad. Dad remarries to woman with children. Dad passes, all assets now go to new woman and children. Any opinions on protecting future inheritances, and directing how your assets will be passed on if you unexpectedly get hit by a bus?
Dexter Daygame 2019-01-03 18:36:31
Cooking all your meals with just a microwave and sink is impressive. Even extremely minimalist men need at least a stove top for the very basic bare bones meals like boiled eggs for breakfast, brown rice, grilled chicken or fish for dinner etc.
Dexter Daygame 2019-01-03 18:46:02
Quick Question regarding FBs when in an OLTR. Do you hide the fact that you are in an OLTR when on first and second dates with new women ?
JudoJohn 2019-01-03 19:12:33
Provider Hunter bait. But if you run a tight ship and that’s how you are, just do it. If women want more than you can or want to provide them, that’s their problem.Danke,
By the way, for those of you who keep asking me to post pictures of Pink Firefly, it’s comments like the above one that make her reluctant to let me show you pics, so next time you’re wondering why she doesn’t give me permission to show pics of her publicly, remember comments like this. That’s the reasonProof positive that some of your audience knows jack shit about women.
joelsuf 2019-01-03 20:05:52
Hell yeah. Costco bone in skin on chicken thighs are $1.10 a pound. Marinate 1000 different ways, roast for 45 minutes, and you got at least 2 meals. And steaks are actually great pan fried and finished with a butter sauce.ALL DAY son! Great minds think alike.
beware of eating only meat, in the long term it might develop some digestive problems, even some serious shit. I know a dude that had diverticulitis and the doctor blamed it on his meat-only diet, and former UFC heavyweight Brock Lesnar almost died of it and blamed on eating only steaks as well. Mix in some veggies for fiber and drink lots of water or you might clog your digestive system.Oh I'm definitely not stupid enough to only eat meat, I'm just saying I eat mostly meat. Every third or fourth hot meal in the week is usually some beef and vegetable stew. Haven't had any health problems since I started doing this in 2012.
Gang 2019-01-03 22:18:39
I have an office a short distance away set up like a small apartmentThanks BD. Can you tell us a bit more about this office? Are there other offices on the same floor? Does it have a bathroom inside? Kitchen? Is there a bed or only a convertible couch? Is there a desk for working? How many sq ft? How much is the rent of this office? Can you actually live here during a longer soft next, like more than a week? You said your current FBs are all sugar babies costing about 150$ per meet. Do you have the feeling that non sugar babies women who would cost less than 20$ per meet would have a problem meeting in this office? Such as more ASD, or much shorter relationship duration. Compared to a proper studio apartment. Meaning they would be somehow weirded out by the fact that you only bring her in an office and not a real home.
Gang 2019-01-03 22:24:39
You spend more on FBs. You rent a bigger house, I guess PF pays for half of the rent though, doesn't she? You also rent the separate place, I guess you pay 100% of this office, don't you? All in all, how much more expensive is the "separate place+big house live in OLTR+sugar babies FBs" compared to "small house MLTRs+free FBs"? 50% more expensive?
Joe 2019-01-03 22:28:33
Wow this blew up. So basic summary: His & Hers ALL THE THINGS! As a fellow chubby fast eater, I do notice that I eat less food overall if I eat slower, because I reach the point of satiation without stuffing myself. It seems to take 20 minutes for my body to realize I'm not hungry anymore, and if I eat fast then I don't stop feeling hungry until I'm stuffed. Time wise you can spend the same amount of time as eating fast, but it involves eating at your desk and poking at your food, and I know a lot of people hate doing that. I don't care that much although to not eat fast, because lazyness also prevents me from getting more food half the time.
Gang 2019-01-03 22:36:27
For a guy who is focused on happinness, its odd to have adapted live-to-work and not work-to-live type of mentality. Yuck!I think you are missing the point that someone who is borderline workaholic or has a bit of an obsession with money, actually loves and enjoys working. Thus a live to work on a mission makes him happy. Working and earning more money is almost like a passion in itself for such a personality. Unlike someone lazy and relatively unmotivated in earning more and more money like me, it would make me feel miserable. Unless perhaps I am really working on a passion of mine.
Huh 2019-01-03 23:25:02
I never would have predicted this would degenerate into a "how fast should you eat" comment war...
Stevie2 2019-01-04 00:15:37
I never would have predicted this would degenerate into a “how fast should you eat” comment war…Haha...... ha....... First time here?
Vanilla Boy 2019-01-04 00:25:26
What about future inheritance?I don't think you should ever assume that you will receive an inheritance until you receive it. Even if your parents have stable lives and you have a good relationship with them, a promise by them that they will leave you money is just a non-binding statement of intent. Yeah, if they invite you to talk about how they want to arrange it, then take part in the discussion. Hehe. My mother ditched her second husband at the age of sixty. He went off, remarried a young widow with kids, then died a few years later. The new wife received a large seven figure cash inheritance and a few houses in an expensive city in Australia. I didn't really have a horse in that race, but it certainly upset my half brother and half sister. They'll survive, they've got careers, real estate, savings. Character building. Teach them not to take things for granted. Hahaha. My mother occasionally wants to talk to me about her will. She's relatively young, she was 20 when she had me. She walks 20km a day across bush land a few days a week, creative writing workshops, film groups. Perfect diet, excellent health indicators. I always laugh at her and tell her she's probably gonna outlive me anyway, so I'm not that fussed
Ted 2019-01-04 00:40:18
Thanks BD for sharing this. I'm currently married as traditional TMM. I'm in transition to 2.0 lifestyle, I'm reading your books . I hope I can execute successfully and have open multiple relationships in near future. when that ideal future comes I'd actually prefer to have my own house and have my women have their own places. That's why I'm more focused on my location independent 2.0 businesses to support that lifestyle. My question is why you think your OLTR setup is superior than the one I described above? or why you think OLTR marriage (coming with less freedom) is better than having multiple MLTRs? I think the latter has more advantages such as: 1. freedom: Since you have your own place as completely independent fully functional house, you have more flexibility and freedom on whatever you want to do spontaneously (business, sex, other things). 2. security: we all need pair-bonding and stable relationships to be long term happy. once you have one OLTR, if something goes wrong you will need to invest significant amount of time and effort to find another OLTR quality women again. However, like multiple sources of income is needed with 2 or 3 2.0 business, having 2 or 3 multiple MLTRs is a better bet than having only one women as significant other. in your setting you have FBs and sugars but they are not at the quality/level of relationship we will require if we ever lost the OLTR. in my ideal setting if one MLTR gone I won't need to look for another significant other. here I'm more talking about the romantic aspect, quality relationship and pair bonding need rather than sex. once you have money you can get all sex you want at least with sugars but that won't satisfy what you will be missing and will need if you ever lost the OLTR. I'm really curious why you preferred OLTR setting rather than having multiple MLTRs in a setting that will allow you to have still romantic, quality and bonded relationships ? in multiple MLTR setting you are not missing anything that you would get in OLTR one. it's a bit subjective preference but I just don't see the advantages of going into OLTR over multiple MLTR. 3. easily soft-nexting: once you have your own fully functional house you can soft next easily and stay away from any MLTR creating any drama. even staying a little away I think helps. you miss each other and appreciate more. when you are together all the time there is more chance for some kind of conflict and some issues even you separate kitchen and bathrooms etc. 4. more quality relationships with more women: you can always bring more MLTRs into your life. these are more romantic, significant relationships than just having sex with FBs and are long term investments. in your OLTR setting you are limiting yourself to FBs only and you are not allowed to meet women at MLTR level. why this would bring you more happiness in the long term?
TomP 2019-01-04 00:56:22
I teach happiness. Do you think I would spend any significant time doing something that would make me unhappy?Who knows. Teaching and doing are two different things. As it was highlighted,
Would you like to compare my average level of happiness on a typical day of my life to your average level of happiness on a typical day of your life?Happiness is a very subjective thing. Rushing through your lunch just to get more work done or moving to another country just to save some money on tax does not sound like happiness to me personally. Sounds like obsession with work/money.
Vanilla Boy 2019-01-04 01:33:29
My question is why you think your OLTR setup is superior than the one I described above? or why you think OLTR marriage (coming with less freedom) is better than having multiple MLTRs?Personally, I think the best thing that can be said about BD's OLTR model is that it's not nearly as bad as TMM, or even TNMCM (Traditional non-monogomous cheating marriage). But to be honest, the kind of relationship that BD has with PF would fill me with despair, boredom and sorrow. But BD doesn't actually say it's the best model, just one possible model. He always says, "particularly for older guys ..." which makes me smile, because I'm a fair bit older than him and I still don't want to renounce my right to enter new relationships that go beyond a couple of sessions of sex each week. The thing with a couple of FBs, sugar babies ... no socializing, no emotional involvement (Is kissing on the mouth permitted, I wonder?). Like I said, it's a lot better than some traditionally married man sneaking off to the brothel and lying about it and scared of the consequences if his wife catches him. But it's not the optimal model for me. But I've still learned a shitload of useful stuff from BD. Just take the bits that work for you.
David 2019-01-04 02:15:41
NO offense, I actually read this thinking why live together at all? Maybe ill understand in 10 years. My ideal situation would be having four shithole apartments in different parts of the world, with a few sluts near each. Maybe that changes with age. I feel like most guys fall in love, get married, then get divorced in their mid forties and start hanging out with their buddies doing guy stuff again. I imagine i’d have more male companionship and even less patience for a woman in my 40s. Again maybe all that changes. I dont know.
B 2019-01-04 03:03:19
Holy shit... That was a lot of ridiculous diet ranting from a single sentence (in parentheses no less)! The first perfect ten MLTR I had would take about two hours to get ready, it was crazy. She was such a perfectionist with her looks she actually had a hard time getting laid, lots of guys were intimidated and wouldn't make a move. I actually had to coach her to put less effort in before a date and it worked, haha. Thanks for these posts BD, they are helpful to us guys who actually want to live with a woman. I'm looking forward to the next time around even more because of these conflict-management ideas.
Gang 2019-01-04 04:41:27
Off topic: 3800sq.ft.=353m^2 This is absurdly gigantic, more than I thought before reading the conversion! Even the house of my parents which I find madly huge, is 250m^2=2690sq.ft. I am a lazy guy, I would need in house staff to take care of that size. Not to mention the environmental impact.
minimalistic lifestyle (at least for Americans)Yeah right, emphasize American. Fossil fuel guzzling productivist and consumerist society. It's the embodiment of what's going wrong on this planet. Humans are a cancer.
Gang 2019-01-04 05:00:03
Question for you BD: Imagine for some reason someone wants to replicate this childfree OLTR setup in the minimal possible size. Let's say also to be clear that garage is not accounted for in the total size, or even no garage at all. First, assuming the exact same number of rooms kitchens and bathrooms, what is the minimal possible size according to you? Then, assuming only one living room, 2 bedrooms including 2 bathrooms and each bedroom also serves as office with a desk if necessary. 100m^2~1000sq. ft. Would you say you still get over 80% of the freedom and benefits of the setup?
Gang 2019-01-04 05:05:25
So much space is like you're not even housemates, you're neighbors who fuck and sleep in the same bed 🙂 Not a bad thing.
C Lo 2019-01-04 05:07:00
Nothing will cause arguments like sharingFixed that for you.
a bathroom full-timewith a female you’re romantically involved with. I realize some of you have done this in the past and had zero problems, but you got lucky.
John 2019-01-04 06:01:09
recipes for a delicious comment section... Post about your marriage setup.. Add in a dash of diet (like admitting you eat like a POW).. Reveal something shocking about PF (2 and a Half Fucking hours!! Holy shit!! Just kidding my ex did the same)... Stir and taste
Tyler 2019-01-04 08:25:02
we have an extra bedroom fully set up with a bed where guests can sleep and where I can sleep if there’s ever a problem. I haven’t ever needed to do this, and I may never need to, but it’s there if I need itCould you give a few hypothetical examples,when you will use that extra bedroom? (I mean will you use that extra bedroom to do some kind of soft next,or what you had in mind when you wrote that?).
JudoJohn 2019-01-04 08:35:28
I feel like most guys fall in love, get married, then get divorced in their mid forties and start hanging out with their buddies doing guy stuff again. I imagine i’d have more male companionship and even less patience for a woman in my 40s. Again maybe all that changes. I dont know.Pretty much. I was in a marriage of 10 years, a marriage of 4 years, and a LTR of 4.5 years, which along with others, are about 22 of my 25 adult years. At this point, my priorities have been career, fitness, outdoor adventure, family, and alcohol. Now that I'm coming off a 20 year bender (the last two being epic), I should have more time for women, but not that much more and pretty much in the time slots I was drinking...."Netflix and chill" at a slightly higher level. I will never again sleep with a martial arts partner, that's hardcore shitting where one eats. I could see having a MLTR/FB who is at my level in the outdoors, but at my level is the point....my last LTR, she loved and was great at backpacking, but was so squeamish around bugs that it really cramped our style. I am no longer willing to compromise on things like that. The Colorado summer is too short. On some level, I feel a twinge of guilt from SP and "where have all the good men gone?" I am one of those good men, and I have gone to the climbing gym and dojo. I am decidedly as interested in finding more bros as I am in finding MLTR/FB's (for entirely different purposes, clearly). I guess we're supposed to be with a woman often, and I'll probably be there again eventually, but damn, it's really great to get together then go do your own thing while they go do their own thing. This is something I've never been good at, it's always been "everything together" when in a LTR which is not a good vibe....in fact, an OLTR prereq would probably be getting that Beta bullshit pounded entirely out of one's head.
Antekirtt 2019-01-04 08:51:11
Humans are a cancer.This will continue to be false no matter how many times it's repeated. It's an incoherent, intellectually shallow claim. Anyone who sits down calmly and thinks about this word by word quickly realizes it doesn't make sense. Humans are only a cancer to other humans, sort of. To other living things they're just another input in an already near-inconceivably cruel natural world that never gave them quarters way before humans were a thing.
Franklin 2019-01-04 09:01:07
will you use that extra bedroom to do some kind of soft nextArguably the biggest sacrifice you make when moving in with a woman is that you can no longer soft next her. Trying to do anything resembling a soft next (e.g. physical avoidance, cold shoulder) to a woman who lives with you makes you look like a petulant child throwing a hissy fit and, as such, has the opposite effect of a soft next, i.e. decreases her attraction and makes you look more beta.
JudoJohn 2019-01-04 09:01:33
This will continue to be false no matter how many times it’s repeated. It’s an incoherent, intellectually shallow claim.Agreed wholeheartedly. Tried to ignore that comment.....and hell, talk about off topic! I think that a human-centric environmental policy is best. Shoot feral horses because they tear up marginal range land, allow wolves in Yellowstone but shoot them if they enter a ranch, protect natural spaces for ecosystem services like water quality, hold farmers/ranchers to account for soil quality (which does happen), shit like that. I'm a professional in an environmental field and I totally hate the Gaia bullshit.
near-inconceivably cruel natural worldGot to love David Attenborough!
JohnMurdoch 2019-01-04 09:31:22
Arguably the biggest sacrifice you make when moving in with a woman is that you can no longer soft next her. Trying to do anything resembling a soft next (e.g. physical avoidance, cold shoulder) to a woman who lives with you makes you look like a petulant child throwing a hissy fit and, as such, has the opposite effect of a soft next, i.e. decreases her attraction and makes you look more beta.YES!! Thats why I'm against the living together thing all the way. I gotta be able to just distance myself enough if an argument comes and I'm not in the mood. Also if soft nexting is needed, being 20 feet away is not gonna cut IMHO
C Lo 2019-01-04 12:56:33
I’ve included some quick research below but there is some real reason to consider the speed of eating.Its funny you mention that. I’ve been reading Chris Carmichael’s “Time Crunched Cyclist” and it was kinda a wake up call for me and my habit of speed eating. Specifically, chapter 10 is “weight loss for the time crunched athlete “, and there are two pages starting on 216 titled “we eat quickly”. The point of the book is to be more efficient with your available training time (most normal people don’t have an extra 15 hours a week to train) but there’s a whole chapter on fools like me who 1) powereat and 2) multitask. The solution is to dedicate meal time to eating, and put the fork down after every bite, and force yourself to slow down, and focus on when you feel “full”, and then when you get there, STOP EATING.
As a fellow chubby fast eater, I do notice that I eat less food overall if I eat slower, because I reach the point of satiation without stuffing myself.And for good reason. It works. Its a hard habit to break that I adopted 20 years ago to work through my lunch period. I highly doubt BD will adopt it. It requires an effort to be less efficient for a different outcome that I don’t think is very important to him. Then again:
However, getting a cleaning service again is pretty high on the list for one of our financial goals, in addition to getting a personal chef.Whats the point if you are satisfied to subsist on canned tuna and frozen vegetables? I say that as someone who exists on a similar diet of meal prepped chicken/rice/vegetables, oatmeal, and a couple of other things.
That statement really feels to me like only a workaholic or someone obsessed with money could relate to that, I am the radical opposite.I’m that guy who got his rocks off being a workaholic when I was married because “that’s what you are supposed to do “. I’m still that guy post divorce, but things are a little different post divorce because I have a hyper vindictive ex who can come back at anytime in California for alimony. I caught her prowling around on my LinkedIn profile a couple of weeks ago. I gotta be careful about my work life because I don’t want to give her another dime. So I found some other stuff to channel my energy.
Even if your parents have stable lives and you have a good relationship with them, a promise by them that they will leave you money is just a non-binding statement of intent.I got baited to return return to a family business, put about 25 million on the bottom line in five years, and for my troubles, got divorced, forced into bankruptcy, and cut completely out of everything. Assume nothing till the check clears.
I imagine i’d have more male companionship and even less patience for a woman in my 40s.Kinda, but it’s not exactly with a bunch of single guys. And the patience deal is bang on. I was married for twenty years, and while I loved it, in retrospect it was a miserable experience tolerating the spouse for both me and the ex, and I’m not interested in any part of that again. BD claims that this is divorced angry guy phase, and I took him at face value over two years ago that it would pass. Well, I’m not angry anymore but I couldn’t be less interested in even recoupleing again. BDs description of his Open Marriage seems like a fresh version of Hell, and if this is the best option, I’m a hard pass.
Sometimes you need to stop and engage in a little rational thinking before you post a comment on a blog. It might help.I think they are, and I think you are being too sensitive about their valid criticism. I’m wired like you, and am painfully aware that most of the rest of the world is not. We make compromises for efficiency that 99% of the population can’t understand and don’t care to try. But it’s good for me, so IDK. I’m not ashamed to do what I want and if it’s not for you, great!
Ken 2019-01-04 13:52:44
I don't care about anyone's living arrangements, but fully agree microwaving food is super unhealthy, that's the point posters were making. I used to do it a lot myself, but now just reheat food in the oven, or on the stove. I also used to eat tuna a lot, but since tuna has a lot of mercury, I switched to salmon, that's one of the top 5 foods for testosterone.
joelsuf 2019-01-04 15:54:01
My ideal situation would be having four shithole apartments in different parts of the world, with a few sluts near each.Bruh. That's the dream for me lol.
Pink Firefly 2019-01-04 17:17:40
But I think the kitchen rules are a little extreme/silly. Kitchen to me is more of a common area.I agree, I think it's silly that BD wants a separate kitchen!
Women over 33 love to blather on about it after their 50th relationship fails...People of all ages use the "Love Languages" even our own relationship counselor uses it. Age has nothing to with it. I have noticed that guys commenting on this blog are really into categorizing women due to their age, when more often than not, age has nothing to do with it.
Separate kitchens may not be QUITE as important as bathroomsI agree, having my own bathroom is a must!. A separate kitchen is really not necessary and in my opinion, quite silly.
My approach has always been that its my house/I am paying the rent and therefore I decide all the arrangements. Every woman has understood and accepted this. Of course she can give advice but if I don’t like it I veto it with “Its my house” and then she has nothing to say.That's pretty ridiculous. It sounds like you may have an issue with control, which is not a good thing and is considered a "red flag." We are married, so our home is both of ours equally.
She’s older though, maybe older women take more time to apply all they’re creams and stuffI had to laugh at this comment. You really don't understand women! Women of all ages put cream on their faces, so "my being older" has nothing to do with it.
I mean will you use that extra bedroom to do some kind of soft next.We are married, you can't soft next your spouse. lol.
Satan 2019-01-04 18:29:14
Yeah right, emphasize American. Fossil fuel guzzling productivist and consumerist society. It’s the embodiment of what’s going wrong on this planet. Humans are a cancer.You self righteous environmentalists are cancer. Get a life.
Heh 2019-01-04 18:53:01
We are married, you can’t soft next your spouse.Oh, I dunno, all the poor fools in the deadbedrooms subreddit who have slept in separate bedrooms from their wives for years, isn't that a form of soft next? (To be sure, those guys are too weak-willed to do what they should do, which is to hard next their wives.)
C Lo 2019-01-04 19:00:35
Oh, I dunno, all the poor fools in the deadbedrooms subreddit who have slept in separate bedrooms from their wives for years, isn’t that a form of soft next?From experience, no it’s not. Its all of the downside PLUS no potential for sex. Good for her if you are carrying her financially and she’s sleeping with someone else. Please tell me y’all are joking?
Mariano 2019-01-04 20:14:21
This is excellent Caleb, I'm happy to hear you are doing well with this setup, it sounds amazing. I can't believe that you prepare and eat everything in less than 10 minutes. It takes me 1 hour to prepare and eat food (and I have to clean on top of it). Take care.
Jack Outside the Box 2019-01-04 20:36:56
I agree, I think it’s silly that BD wants a separate kitchen!Oh Pink Firefly..... May I call you Pinky? You remind me of a Pinky I once knew.
People of all ages use the “Love Languages” even our own relationship counselor uses it.I will never get over the fact that the two of you are seeing a counselor. Then again, I'm still devastated over the fact that Caleb now fucks virtually no one but hookers. Sigh.....
Age has nothing to with it.BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! No seriously though, may I call you Pinky?
I have noticed that guys commenting on this blog are really into categorizing womenCategorization is itself a masculine concept, so I'm not surprised you're not into it. But "discernment" and "telling two unlike things apart" is the building block of what men call justice. By contrast, women call it......."mean." That's why so many women's lives are one big chaotic jumble, because they merge everything together. Feminine women need a man to turn that tsunami into a river and divide it into 16 different parts by being "mean" or "categorizing." This is how a masculine man gets to be a woman's rock in her turbulent storm; a source of protection and refuge from her chaos. You're welcome.
That’s pretty ridiculous. It sounds like you may have an issue with control, which is not a good thing and is considered a “red flag.”Desiring control over one's own private property is a red flag? Um....ok.
We are married, so our home is both of ours equally.Legally, what you're saying is horseshit! The lease belongs to Caleb, not you. It is his house, not yours. He shares it with you, but you certainly don't co-own it. Then again, I don't know the legal aspects of your marriage, but I don't think Caleb is the type of guy who would allow a marriage contract to supercede his "share everything, co-own nothing" rule. Just saying.
I had to laugh at this comment. You really don’t understand women!It would be more accurate to say that he doesn't understand matters pertaining to makeup. We're neither women nor gay here, so it is natural for us not to know anything about that nonsense. Women, on the other hand, we understand better than you think.
We are married, you can’t soft next your spouse. lol.You know what's interesting? You're focused more on the symbolic "marriage" that you two have (I'm assuming it's not legally binding) and less on the more practically relevant matter of living together. You could have said, "you can't soft next someone you live with," which would be a more rational thing to say. But you're hung up on this whole "husband and wife" thing. Spoiler alert: Yes, you can soft next your symbolic spouse, unless you live with her. In all seriousness though, you should post more. Peering into your mind is genuinely interesting.
Pink Firefly 2019-01-04 21:47:53
May I call you Pinky? You remind me of a Pinky I once knew.You must really get off on insulting people. It's sad that you can't make any comments without being flat out insulting or disrespectful. You should take a cue from the other readers who post on this blog, as they can comment without making constant insults.
focused more on the symbolic “marriage” that you two haveFYI, our marriage is not symbolic. You really don't know anything about our marriage so stop pretending like you do. I will not be posting/commenting on this blog for a very long time or if ever at all. BD doesn't care about being disrespected, but clearly I do.
Vanilla Boy 2019-01-04 23:01:39
I will not be posting/commenting on this blog for a very long time or if ever at all. BD doesn’t care about being disrespected, but clearly I do.Hey PF, I always respect and admire you for coming on to the forum and saying what you think without caring how other people react. It shows more guts (I almost said "balls") than half the men on this forum. Good on ya and best wishes for you in your new home.
Vanilla Boy 2019-01-04 23:02:51
At a guess, I can say that all these guys waiting for an image of PF are gonna be waiting a little bit longer.
Gang 2019-01-05 01:03:09
Arguably the biggest sacrifice you make when moving in with a woman is that you can no longer soft next her.This is a misunderstanding of Blackdragon's live in OLTR system where you must have a separate home like a studio (or office set as a studio in the current case of BD) that you can use at any time (or maximum within a few days if you let it through airbnb) if a soft next is necessary. That's for me the most important part of the live in OLTR setup. This place is also usually the place where you fuck FBs, unless you are lucky enough that your OLTR didn't lay a stupid rule (most women will want this rule) that you cannot bring FBs home and you manage to do that without any drama from FBs. I am surprised to read that PF thinks she cannot be soft nexted. Hopefully this doesn't backfire on Caleb.
Marty 2019-01-05 02:49:57
First, assuming the exact same number of rooms kitchens and bathrooms, what is the minimal possible size according to you? Then, assuming only one living room, 2 bedrooms including 2 bathrooms and each bedroom also serves as office with a desk if necessary. 100m^2~1000sq. ft. Would you say you still get over 80% of the freedom and benefits of the setup?@gang I can tell you what I do with my live in OLTR. It's worked very well for us for almost 3 years now. And I feel like I have quite a bit of freedom with the setup. We live on a high floor right on the river in the middle of the city. Amazing 180-degree views and a fantastic place to live. It's a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom unit that is 81 m2 inside and has 29 m2 balcony (quite large). Small laundry room, and one space garage downstairs that fits my car and Harley. Storage cage that is quite big. We sleep in the master bedroom and I have the ensuite bathroom for me and she has the other one. All my clothes and stuff are in the master bedroom walk in robe and all her stuff is in the other room. I work from home and my desk is in the lounge room. Not ideal but it works for me. She works out of the house so I have the place to myself during work hours. We have a large TV in the lounge room but I also have a massive screen on my desk. She also has a desk in her room with a large screen. So we sometimes watch stuff together and sometimes do our own thing on our own screens. Other times she is on the TV and I'm on my screen. I use headphones if I need too. She is watching a movie on the TV next to me while I'm writing this. My back is to the TV so it doesn't disturb me. We share the kitchen but rarely eat the same thing. We don't seem to have any trouble with getting in each other's way. Although most of the time if we are eating at the same time she cooks all my food for me at the same time as she is cooking her own. I eat mostly meat and veggies and she eats all sorts of stuff. It changes all the time. Lately, I have just been eating her food as she is going through a phase of eating stuff I really like. 🙂 We are minimalists and are trying to have less and less stuff as time goes by. Between the balcony, the two rooms and the lounge there is never any issues with getting our own space. Even if I have a mate or one of my kids over to hang out with. The building also has some pretty amazing common areas that can be booked and used if needed. Pool room, Reading area/library, Outdoor BBQ area right on the river, Common kitchen/party room, meeting room, gym, sauna, pool with a large sunning area with deck chairs etc. I've had the big 4 bedroom house with 4 decks, living, dining, family room, office, pool, double garage, 3 bathrooms, storage room etc etc etc. I could never go back to all that. I love having a small, simple, but very practical place to live.
Jack Outside the Box 2019-01-05 02:56:13
You must really get off on insulting people. It’s sad that you can’t make any comments without being flat out insulting or disrespectful.I wasn't being insulting at all. When I asked if I can call you Pinky, I was being playful, not disrespectful. What? You didn't see the smile on my face? 🙂 It's sad that you can't interpret comments, except in the worst possible light. That was me just lightly flirting with you, while disagreeing. Oh, and just so we're clear, on the "may I call you Pinky" question, may I interpret your response as a "maybe?" Or is that a "no?" Now is not the time for feminine coyness! 🙂
You should take a cue from the other readers who post on this blog, as they can comment without making constant insults.Where have I insulted you exactly? I know that feminine women tend to interpret playful disagreement as an insult or a personal attack, but come on! Learn to take a little heat in this hyper-masculine space. When men talk like this, it means we love you! That's how we show it!
FYI, our marriage is not symbolic. You really don’t know anything about our marriage so stop pretending like you do.Ok, this is the one place where you're correct. I used the word "symbolic" because I was proceeding under the assumption that you don't have a full blown legal marriage (City Hall marriage certificate, and so forth), although you may have signed some contracts. Caleb said he wouldn't discuss the legalities, but I'm fairly positive that if he wanted to exit that marriage, he'd have a lot easier time doing it than someone who went through the traditional legal channels. That's all.
I will not be posting/commenting on this blog for a very long time or if ever at all.Ow, that's a shame. I mean that. It's so easy to get you to rage quit?
BD doesn’t care about being disrespected, but clearly I do.Correction: You clearly have a definition of "disrespect" that is considerably broader and more feminine than most others do. What I said to you wasn't even that bad. I never called you any bad names, never swore at you, never violated any of BD's rules, and never insulted you, other than to tell you, in a direct and masculine way, that you are wrong on multiple fronts. And I laid out exactly why I think you're wrong so that you can respond. But whatever, if your skin is that thin, maybe it is best that you do not post. Ironically though, in contrast to all the guys here who are softer towards you, I'll probably miss you more than any of them. Oh well.
Jack Outside the Box 2019-01-05 03:15:15
At a guess, I can say that all these guys waiting for an image of PF are gonna be waiting a little bit longer.Yeah......about that, let me unambiguously wash my hands of that completely. I'm not the kind of guy who nitpicks or judges women harshly for their physical appearances. I'm a more personality guy. I'm sure PF's body is physically beautiful, or BD would have never picked her. In fact, I'll go further and say that, on the objective scale, she's probably hotter than my girlfriend. Although that's sort of apples and oranges because BD and I probably have very different physical standards in terms of what turns us on. My thing is personality and sexual attitude, as long as the woman meets a basic threshold of physical attractiveness (which I'm positive Pink Firefly exceeds). It would no doubt be the extreme thrill of the hunt dudes and nightclub guys who would be nitpicking every stupid wrinkle on her skin and telling BD that she's ugly or "below average," not me. So yeah, just for the record: I have nothing to do with any delay in releasing her image. Don't put that shit on me!
Vanilla Boy 2019-01-05 03:59:23
Yeah……about that, let me unambiguously wash my hands of that completely. I’m not the kind of guy who nitpicks or judges women harshly for their physical appearances. I’m a more personality guy. I’m sure PF’s body is physically beautiful, or BD would have never picked her. In fact, I’ll go further and say that, on the objective scale, she’s probably hotter than my girlfriend. Although that’s sort of apples and oranges because BD and I probably have very different physical standards in terms of what turns us on. My thing is personality and sexual attitude, as long as the woman meets a basic threshold of physical attractiveness (which I’m positive Pink Firefly exceeds). It would no doubt be the extreme thrill of the hunt dudes and nightclub guys who would be nitpicking every stupid wrinkle on her skin and telling BD that she’s ugly or “below average,” not me. So yeah, just for the record: I have nothing to do with any delay in releasing her image. Don’t put that shit on me!I'm always surprised to find that there are quite a few points where we clearly agree. I have only very minimal interest in seeing an image of PF. I'd much rather hear what she has to say. Apart from preferring women who are reasonably strong and fit, I'm also more interested in women's character, provided they meet certain minimum physical standards. Big tits and blond hair don't do that much for me, either. I was just sad to see PF go. I agree that anyone who posts here should be prepared to tolerate hearing things they don't want to hear. But PF is a bit of a special case. We don't expect or need her opinions to fit with Alpha 2.0 ideas. She's interesting because we get to hear the point of view of the woman BD talks about most. If she wasn't BD's partner, I'd probably ask her what she was doing here.
So yeah, just for the record: I have nothing to do with any delay in releasing her image. Don’t put that shit on me!Well, you're projecting slightly. I never mentioned you and PF can take responsibility for her own decision.
Jack Outside the Box 2019-01-05 05:14:19
Humans are a cancer.So here is how my next 20 minutes went after reading the above filth: I really don't want BD to ban me, so I took several very deep breaths. Then I went into the kitchen and got myself a bottle of water. I sat back down in my chair and drank the water, while re-reading the whole post. I then decided that I needed some fresh air, so I put on my big jacket and braved the freezing cold. I texted a fuck buddy of mine, but she didn't respond. Her husband must be home. I went back inside and went behind my computer again, looking at the above garbage. Shaking my head, I shouted my girlfriend's name and told her to come here (she was visiting me, lying on my bed reading). She came downstairs and said, "yeah baby?" I told her to come and read this. She read the comment and said, "Pssssh, hahaha! So this is why my baby doesn't recycle? To spite guys like him?" I responded, "You know me too well." Then she said, "And I still love ya." Yo Gang, if this is what you really believe, may I humbly suggest that you commit suicide as a way of leading by example and avoiding intellectual hypocrisy? I'd really appreciate it! To all newbies or young men: Please understand that self-hatred (or political correctness) is the most extreme version of beta. It doesn't matter if you hate yourself because you're white, or in the case of this French dude, because you're human and not dead. Low self esteem is unattractive to women. But straight up self-hate and an altruistic desire to commit genocide against the entire human race is the most omega male mindset imaginable. Don't be like him, regardless of what your college professors are telling you. Self-hate can be contagious if your self esteem is low. It used to be that people like Gang would just slit their own wrists, so the problem worked itself out naturally. But now suicide has sadly been replaced with social media, so these people now get off on infecting children and young people with their self-hate as well (this is known as social justice). Jordan Peterson (a man who I have some, but very little, respect for) said it the best: "Environmentalism is anti-human to the core." Here's the red pill truth: Hippie environmentalism is a philosophy of genocide that leads to the gas chamber. If put into practice, it would make the holocaust look like a Sunday school picnic. It is a hateful nihilistic philosophy of pure death and destruction that has its emotional roots in the worst aspects of femininity and paganism. Via feminizing and worshiping the Earth, it is the ultimate end game of political correctness - c%ckolding the entire human species through genocide, not just whites. The cure for pagan, estrogen-toxic, environmentalism is masculinity, testosterone, self-love, self-respect (which creates sexual attraction in women), and the utilization of the military to hunt down the more militant domestic eco-terrorists and execute them. Only then will our species emotionally and spiritually heal from the toxic poison that is tree hugging! I guess what I'm really trying to say here is that you should vote for Trump in 2020, lol. Together we can stop men like Gang dead in their tracks!
Roark 2019-01-05 05:45:04
Blackdragon Jack outside the box This is an extract from The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand: Roark leaned against the door, closing his eyes. He was sick with pity. He had never felt this before[...] But this was pity—this complete awareness of a man without worth or hope, this sense of finality, of the not to be redeemed. There was shame in this feeling—his own shame that he should have to pronounce such judgment upon a man, that he should know an emotion which contained no shred of respect.
This is pity, he thought, and then he lifted his head in wonder. He thought that there must be something terribly wrong with a world in which this monstrous feeling is called a virtueWhat do you think about not having pity?I mean if you dont help him,the "victim" has two choices: -he helps himself and grow or he dies because he thinks its not worth helping himself.(win/win) Could you comment on this?
Roark 2019-01-05 05:51:02
Jack outside the box You have an OLTR.How often do you see her per week?How many years she has been your Oltr?How many times have you soft next her? What big shit tests she has been given to you? Why did you make her Oltr,i mean did you "tested" her to see if she deserves to be an Oltr,or you just made her an Oltr? If you tested her,what have you did in order to know that she respects the safe sex rules and she is qualified for Oltr.
Jack Outside the Box 2019-01-05 06:39:46
I’m always surprised to find that there are quite a few points where we clearly agree. I have only very minimal interest in seeing an image of PF.I never said I don't want to see her pics. I'm actually curious. I just wanted to articulate that there's virtually zero chance that I'll be judging her based on her physical appearance.
I’d much rather hear what she has to say.Meh. Dissecting her brain is a fun thing to do, but it's mostly predictable Disney shit. I prefer hearing her responses to criticism, which she evidently cannot take. It's a shame, because I really do want her to post more.
Apart from preferring women who are reasonably strong and fit,Huh? You want women to be strong? As in, physically? Why?
I’m also more interested in women’s character, provided they meet certain minimum physical standards.Agreed.
Big tits and blond hair don’t do that much for me, either.I love big tits. Big and perky. I just want to devour them, or use them as pillows. A few times, I stuck my dick between my girlfriend's tits and had breast sex. But she only enjoyed the ending when I came in her mouth, and I can't stand women being bored during sex so I don't do breast sex often.
I was just sad to see PF go.Yeah, I agree. But she's REALLY not used to unfiltered rawness.
I agree that anyone who posts here should be prepared to tolerate hearing things they don’t want to hear. But PF is a bit of a special case.Disagree. So far, BD has been consistent with his rules and has applied them equally to everyone. The only exception is that he has made one or two blog posts about PF where he explicitly stated that the rules are suspended and we must be nice to her. Other than those two blog posts, however, he has admirably shown restraint and objectivity when men like me have been critical of her, as long as we don't break his five rules. I don't think she should be pedestaled or treated special. She is the ultimate test of his objectivity.
We don’t expect or need her opinions to fit with Alpha 2.0 ideas. She’s interesting because we get to hear the point of view of the woman BD talks about most.Sure, but like all ideas, hers should be challenged as well. I don't expect her to be red pilled. Trust me, I don't. But a red pill space will have a red pill bias, and we shouldn't be castrated just because she's BD's woman. She should rise to the challenge, not act all butthurt because "feelings." But, she's a hyper-feminine woman, so it is what it is.
Well, you’re projecting slightly. I never mentioned you and PF can take responsibility for her own decision.I'm preempting future criticism and potential backlash from BD, PF, and others.
Jack Outside the Box 2019-01-05 07:06:47
What do you think about not having pity?Pity inspires mercy. I believe in mercy way more than BD does. But certain qualifications must be met first. Mercy should absolutely not be handed out indiscriminately. Otherwise, you become an estrogen-toxic socialist who develops a politically correct case of self-denial and self-hate. Mercy must be reigned in by prudence, rationality, and self-respect. In fact, Europe (led by Sweden) is dismantling itself and committing suicide precisely due to an overflow of estrogenic pity and self loathing.
I mean if you dont help him,the “victim” has two choices: -he helps himself and grow or he dies because he thinks its not worth helping himself.(win/win) Could you comment on this?I believe in helping people, but they must want to be helped first. Unless I'm helping them for selfish reasons because I know that their downward spiral will, in the long run, negatively affect me. That doesn't apply so much to individuals, but it does to society, hence my selfish desire to save the world from the far left, if only so I can have sex in peace without all sex being legally defined as rape. On an individual scale, however, I'm more merciless. I'll help by giving advice and through criticism (many of my posts on this blog are geared towards the readers who aren't commenting, but just observing), but a person usually has to show a disposition of wanting to change in order for me to give a shit about him if I'm just dealing with him and no one else.
Jack Outside the Box 2019-01-05 07:58:30
You have an OLTR.How often do you see her per week?It varies. The once a week rule doesn't apply to OLTRs. We used to live together before realizing that it wouldn't work since we both need our space. So she bought a house practically right next to mine. Some weeks, we see each other every day. Others, three or four times a week (which doesn't include running into each other in passing while we're out and about in the neighborhood). One time, she was at a mall with a friend with benefits of hers and the cashier saw them kissing. Then I ran into them and she gave me a big hug and kiss right in front of him. The cashier gave her a blank and deeply confused (slightly disgusted) look. It was hilarious.
How many years she has been your Oltr?Five years and counting.
How many times have you soft next her?As an OLTR? Never. A few times as an FB, once as an FWB, and I believe twice as an MLTR.
What big shit tests she has been given to you?By the time you get to OLTR status, the shit tests are over. In the beginning (when we were just FBs), she tested my non-monogamy resolve. She would keep throwing her other guys in my face, even kissing them in front of me. One time (during the FWB stage) she asked if I mind her sucking another man's dick in front of me. I told her, of course I don't mind. He was also her friend with benefits and I told her that if he needs some release, she should go and be a good friend. The three of us were hanging out together at her place and he eventually left, which is when I had sex with her and spent the night. She eventually agreed to upgrade me to MLTR level because I showed a remarkable lack of jealousy and territoriality.
Why did you make her Oltr,Because she refused to break up with me after she learned that I had sex with her mother at the one and only swingers party that I ever attended with her (which her mom was partly organizing). I'm serious. I made an entire field report on that night that I posted on Sedfast. It's still there and you can read it if you find it. It's in the Relationship section, so you have to be logged in. BD posted in that thread and gave me plenty of advice. It's a long story, but the point is that I fully expected her to break up with me for this, despite our lack of monogamy (she was my MLTR at the time). Instead, she had a breakdown, cried her eyes out profusely for hours, and then came to me, (with her face still mangled from all the crying) and told me that if I ever fuck her mom again, I need to promise that I will never tell her. I was never more in love with anyone than I was with her at that moment, due to the incredible open mindedness that she has shown. I was filled with compassion and other fuzzy feelings, so I asked her to be my girlfriend. She said yes and we upgraded each other to OLTR status. Years later, she sincerely (not sarcastically, albeit with some tongue in cheek) said "thanks mom," since if it weren't for that, we might never have turned into boyfriend and girlfriend.
i mean did you “tested” her to see if she deserves to be an Oltr,or you just made her an Oltr?See above. I screen for sexual liberation and open mindedness. First she was my fuck buddy. Then my friend with benefits. Then my MLTR. This was two years. After two years of fucking and upgrading, we became OLTR.
If you tested her,what have you did in order to know that she respects the safe sex rulesShe was a member of the poly community way before she ever met me. She's the one who brought me in. They are hyper-vigilant about safe sex. Her mom taught her about condoms at age 12. After a couple abortions, she had an IUD inside her by age 18, thanks to her parents.
and she is qualified for Oltr.She hates monogamy even more than me. She went through a monogamy phase where she cheated on every boyfriend she ever had. In order for me to qualify a woman for OLTR status she has to make it through the FB, FWB, and MLTR stages (which takes years), show an abundance of open mindedness and sexual liberation, be independent (not dominant), demonstrate low maintenance and drama, have a high sex partner count, and show a history of either poly relationships or cheating. She has met all of the above qualifications. Let me emphasize the last three. If a woman has had less than 10 sex partners in her past, she doesn't qualify as an OLTR in my opinion. If she has never cheated on past boyfriends or husbands, she absolutely doesn't qualify (unless her relationships were open). So I screen for poly tendencies, which are usually demonstrated in a massive history of past cheating (a requirement for me). In her case, it was both cheating and poly. Win/win!
James 2019-01-05 08:03:54
well this all escalated.
Bah 2019-01-05 08:08:40
I will not be posting/commenting on this blog for a very long time or if ever at all. BD doesn’t care about being disrespected, but clearly I do.Frankly I'd prefer that PF keep commenting here and JOTB go get his own blog instead of leaving incessant wall-of-text TL;DR comments on this blog.
Jack Outside the Box 2019-01-05 08:31:14
Frankly I’d prefer that PF keep commenting here and JOTB go get his own blog instead of leaving incessant wall-of-text TL;DR comments on this blog.Um....you're not clear on the concept pal. There will be no "instead." Just this blog and my own. And no one is asking you to read any of my comments. Quite a few people appreciate them. Others are annoyed by them. If you're the latter, just skip them instead of whining about them. Seriously, has this "go away because you're annoying" tactic ever worked on the internet? What you think doesn't exactly mean much to me.
JudoJohn 2019-01-05 08:38:41
I will never get over the fact that the two of you are seeing a counselor. Then again, I’m still devastated over the fact that Caleb now fucks virtually no one but hookers. Sigh…..I am choosing to get past this.....it's weird because I'm following his roadmap but I still can't wrap my mind around OLTR's/Sugar Babies. If I wanted that, I think I'd go right for it.....at this point, I'm guessing I could find a really well off early 50's woman and step right in to her life, not exactly as a moocher, but not really paying my own way either....we could easily play off like I'm a bigger dog at work than I am, I can hold my own in the fancy circles through looks and social skills, win over her family, and since I'd have more of my own money I'd be able to afford to keep a couple Sugar Babies on rotation. No thanks, but I'll reevaluate at 60. The whole idea seems to be to build up a roster of women....that's a lot of work to give up, which is my bigger criticism of having an OLTR as an objective. That said, I get it, I've lived with women more than not.
I will not be posting/commenting on this blog for a very long time or if ever at all. BD doesn’t care about being disrespected, but clearly I do.PF, I don't think I've ever addressed you directly, as I think it's borderline inappropriate to do so....as I'm sure you know, a major manosphere saying is "Watch what women do, not what they say" and I'm guessing that colors your interaction with BD's fans. You probably already thought of this, but if you choose to cut some guys some slack, it might be a helpful observation. FWIW, I more or less agree with the saying. It would be a fool's errand to embark on an Alpha 2.0 lifestyle if it wasn't mostly true, TBQH.
Roark 2019-01-05 08:42:19
Jack outside the box Cool reports you have on Sedfast.
One time, she was at a mall with a friend with benefits of hers and the cashier saw them kissing.Your version of friends with benefits,sounds more like a low end Mltr. I had in the past a lot of FWBs who were cheating on they bf,that they loved and they got feelings for me.Like this happened with 6 separate FWBs,along the years. Do you think your Oltr,has feelings for her friends with benefits? I mean going to the mall with a FWB,on a "date" and kissing him in public is not appropriate for a FWB ,only for a MLTR.
Matt 2019-01-05 09:00:08
Well if no one else is going to say it, then I will: JOTB, PF leaving, possibly forever, and now possibly no picture will come from her, IS ON YOU! You really think calling her “Pinky” was playful and cute? If you truly meant it that way then it was TERRIBLY calibrated, because it came off as cringy, a little aspie. and yes, disrespectful. Also, why are you trying to be playful and flirty with BDs WIFE?! Would you do that your buddies wife? Again it comes off terribly uncalibrated. Almost like what goes through your head is “oh, pretty girl, time to flirt!” instead thinking it through situationally. Also, you say guys are there to categorize and battle ideas with, etc. And this is true. So why are you “challenging ideas” with a feminine woman? What did honestly think was going to happen from doing that? Challenging PFs legitimacy of marriage? They just recently got married dude, why would you frame things like that? And arguing over the pedantic point that you can still soft next a non live in marriage, but what marriage (mono and non-mono) wouldn’t be live in? It’s like you were arguing just for the sake of arguing. Because again, if you know she’s a normal feminine woman, why would you challenge her closely held beliefs and ideas? You didn’t ask for her ideas if you were genuinely curious, you challenged her existing ones. She’s not a masculine dude, so what did you honestly think was gonna happen? Maybe this isn’t all on you, fine, but you’re certainly to blame for “breaking the camels back”. And you saying you’re “washing your hands” of PF leaving and no pic doesn’t change that fact.
Blackdragon 2019-01-05 09:12:28
Oh boy. Looks like it's time to take out the trash.
Blackdragon 2019-01-05 09:15:39
Gang - I'm not sure why I would bother to answer your numerous questions when you imply I'm a cancer and that my lifestyle is representative of everything wrong with the world, so have a nice day. (You're not banned or anything, I'm not not going to answer your questions anymore. Having fun being mad at the world.)
Blackdragon 2019-01-05 09:22:07
Jack - Goodbye. You're banned forever. I've been extremely patient with you for a very long time regarding your childlike lack of basic self-control, given you multiple warnings, and you've abused my leniency, yet again, by insulting my wife (in a thread where I clearly stated people shouldn't do that) and insulted me, purposely misstating facts in order to do so, and it's not the first time you have done either of these things. If you think I'm being unreasonable, I suggest you go back and re-read all the other warnings I gave you in the past when I didn't ban you and probably should have (and when many other comments said I should). Like with Gang, if you disagree with my lifestyle so much then you probably shouldn't be here anyway, so have fun being mad at the world, and have fun setting up your own blog which I'm sure you'll never get around to doing.
Blackdragon 2019-01-05 09:47:35
Okay, moving on to my more rational commenters (thanks for your patience everyone)...
BD, I went through some of your OLTR materials. You stress separate finances, which I totally agree. What about future inheritance?You must write up and both sign (notarized) enforceable paperwork at least 60 days before you move in with her that specifically states such inheritance is 100% yours and not part of any communal property. This assumes you live in a jurisdiction where that is possible, of course, and those are become less and less frequent as the West continues its left-wing decline. Having a very solid asset protection plan in place, with the help of very competent asset protection attorneys, is also a must. Right now, even before you have an OLTR.
Do you hide the fact that you are in an OLTR when on first and second dates with new women ?No, but I only focus on women under age 23 who don't care. (At least so far.) Some other men with OLTRs do and break it to them later. I have not done this as of yet (nor want to). I also have such a huge roster that I don't need to sarge for new women very often. I recommend you build a roster pre-OLTR for this reason.
Thanks BD for sharing this. I’m currently married as traditional TMM. I’m in transition to 2.0 lifestyle, I’m reading your books . I hope I can execute successfully and have open multiple relationships in near future. when that ideal future comes I’d actually prefer to have my own house and have my women have their own places. That’s why I’m more focused on my location independent 2.0 businesses to support that lifestyle. My question is why you think your OLTR setup is superior than the one I described above?Read this.
why you think OLTR marriage (coming with less freedom) is better than having multiple MLTRs?I don't think that. I had multiple MLTRs for 10 years and it was fucking fantastic and I highly recommend it. Different relationship models work for different men at different times in their lives. There is no "best" or "worst" when it comes to OLTR vs MLTR (or even FBs-only). I have a post coming that will explain this in more detail.
once you have one OLTR, if something goes wrong you will need to invest significant amount of time and effort to find another OLTR quality women againWho says you need another OLTR if you break up with your current one? I certainly wouldn't (at least not for many, many years at the earliest).
But BD doesn’t actually say it’s the best model, just one possible model. He always says, “particularly for older guys …”Precisely.
NO offense, I actually read this thinking why live together at all?Read this.
Maybe ill understand in 10 years.Or 20. Or 30. But eventually, you will (unless you are an unusual statistical anomaly). There aren't many guys who would be very happy banging random girls, or even multiple MLTRs, well into their 50s and 60s and beyond. Some, yes, but not most.
Could you give a few hypothetical examples,when you will use that extra bedroom?If I ever didn't want to sleep with her for a given evening. The only thing I can think of is if we had a drama problem or a problem with her dog, since nothing else would compel me to sleep in a separate bed. Like I said, I've never needed to do this. Hopefully I never will.
(I mean will you use that extra bedroom to do some kind of soft next,or what you had in mind when you wrote that?)No. You can't soft next a woman you live with. That's what you give up when you move in with a woman. You have to address drama problems in other ways. (I have much more to say about that later when I get that book written.)
Oh, I dunno, all the poor fools in the deadbedrooms subreddit who have slept in separate bedrooms from their wives for years, isn’t that a form of soft next?No. Not even close.
What do you think about not having pity?I mean if you dont help him,the “victim” has two choices: -he helps himself and grow or he dies because he thinks its not worth helping himself.(win/win) Could you comment on this?I have great pity on those who are not responsible for their problems, such as small children. I have some pity for people who are unhappy because they are ignorant as to how to be happy. I have no pity for people who know how to fix their lives and be happier but choose not to because of cowardice, laziness, clinging to bullshit Societal Programming, or the desire for negative emotions (i.e. those guys who "want" to be angry; many of them in the manosphere).
Johnny Doe 2019-01-05 09:53:23
I’m glad JOTB is banned. It should have been done a looong time ago. I can recall another time he was being disrespectful to Pink Firefly. A comment directly to Pink Firefly - I wish you and BD all the happiness in the world, and thank you for sharing your lifestyle online. It really is a privilege, not a right, which has been taken away. If you are reading this, please know I am very impressed with BD’s life and insulting women is so, so not cool. I wanted to also comment on how long a woman takes to get ready - I find it HOT and a huge turn on when a woman takes a 2.5 hours to get ready, all positives. I know girls who have taken 3 hours to get ready - they were gorgeous. I always thought it is infinitely more complex and layered, and as to how a woman gets ready versus a man.
azog 2019-01-05 10:01:04
Jack – Goodbye. You’re banned forever.Finally! Maybe now we can have some normalcy in the comment section again!
James 2019-01-05 11:13:34
See Caleb, this is what happens when you eat tuna to fast.
Gang 2019-01-05 12:40:43
I clearly stated that my comment on the size of the house is off topic. I expected you to ignore that comment or laugh your ass and drop a fun outcome independent comment: “Yes it's an absurdly gigantic mansion and I don't care about your opinion: America, fuck yeah!”. You don't care about the environment usually since your belief is tech will solve the problems, we already had this discussion several times. I hope you are correct, it will be great. Meanwhile you live in a huge Mansion, own it and be proud. As for humans comparison to a cancer, this is again not directed specifically to you, and I include myself in it. That is a contributing factor for not wanting to reproduce on top of mainly not having any desire for children. I also didn't attack you specifically but the American SP pushing for everything huge and productivism & consumerism. So much that within this SP you say you appear somewhat minimalist. But on the global average this lifestyle is more “American” than “minimalist”. Even you regardless of the environment impact, you recognize that the keeping up with the Jones mentality is endemic in your country and counter productive to happiness. (and I am not saying that you are trying to keep up with the Jones I know you are too smart for that) I think we both agree that neither a 3800sq ft=353sq m house, workaholism nor 6 minutes broccoli tuna mayo meals are requirements for the Alpha 2.0 lifestyle promoted in your blog which I think contains the best pragmatic advises I have ever come accross. The rest of my comments I think are on topic and pertinent questions on this very interesting article. Your blog your decisions. Have a good day too and long & happy live the OLTR between Pink Firefly and you 🙂
Gang 2019-01-05 13:18:06
@Marty Interesting set up you have, I could see myself in something similar. How about the separate studio, do you have one? I still own a 3 bedrooms 85sq m apartment where I used to live and it was already a lot just for me. I had flatmates most of the time which paid the mortgage. Now I let each bedroom on a separate contract, that means 3 people share the whole place. There is one small bathroom separated from the toilets, it works for 3 guys but probably not for 3 pretty women. In short even with 2 bathrooms, I think anything over 100sq m=1070sq ft is overkill for a childfree OLTR, and certainly not minimalist.
Gang 2019-01-05 13:47:41
I will miss JOTB comments about his truely polyamorous OLTR girlfriend, it was very interesting complement to BD's OLTR system.
Jonathan 2019-01-05 14:59:41
I am absolutely glad that JOTB is gone and I sincerely hope that pink firefly can feel comfortable posting again in the near future as her perspective is super valuable and as was stated before certainly a privelege. As far as the poly stuff goes, I’m not sure why JOTB was screening for high partner counts and cheating, that makes no sense. BD makes more sense, you don’t really screen except for some basic rules like no drama, no craziness, no unsafe/illegal behavior. I think the OLTR plus fbs acknowledges that pair bonding desire is a real thing certainly as we get older and is mostly independent of sex drive , certainly for guys. Not sure how much the poly community acknowledges that. Would be interested in BDs perspective here. Im also not a big PDA guy and didn’t find his cashier story that compelling. I don’t think making other people situationally uncomfortable is amusing though not always avoidable. i think JOTB just enjoys arguments/confrontation for the sake of doing so.
marty 2019-01-05 15:21:25
@gang No, I don't have a sperate studio. I don't really need one. Being swingers and because my OLTR is Bi, most of my sex with other girls is done with her and she joins in. We have a very interesting evening coming up. We are having our first 4some with a hot Lesbian couple. I am really looking forward to that. Its been a fantasy of mine for a while. I do have 2 casual FB's at the moment. One I see at her place. The other comes here when my OLTR is not around. e.g. at work. If I really need somewhere else I'd just get a hotel room for that.
Jonathon 2019-01-05 16:06:36
BD, how big is your current roster just out of curiosity and which years were key for you in building it? What’s sort of the rough age breakdown as well?
Blackdragon 2019-01-05 20:14:48
BD, how big is your current rosterWell over 25 women.
which years were key for you in building it?Every year since 2007 except the last one.
What’s sort of the rough age breakdown as well?All over the map. Some women have been on the roster for as long as 10 years, so there's a huge age range. In terms of women who are actually in my life right now (not my overall roster), PF is 39 and all of my currently active FBs are between age 26 and 21 (or so). That configuration is more or less where I like it.
Gang 2019-01-06 01:20:55
Actually I also read in the UORM the same as in your comment here :
No. You can’t soft next a woman you live with. That’s what you give up when you move in with a woman. You have to address drama problems in other ways.But in your precedent articles, older: https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/07/18/16297/
10. What if you’re married? Living together? Have kids together? You cannot soft next a woman if you live with her full time (unless you maintain two residences).If she starts getting bossy or bitchy, INSTANT SOFT NEXT! How do you next a woman if she lives with you? Well, in a standard live-in arrangement it’s impossible. However, while a little complicated, in my open relationships ebook I discuss how to structure Dual Live-In OLTRs and Virtual Live-In OLTRs where it is actually possible to next a woman you’re living with. https://blackdragonblog.com/2015/02/19/how-to-move-in-with-a-woman/ So it seems you might have changed your mind about virtual live in OLTR.
Gang 2019-01-06 01:41:24
We are having our first 4some with a hot Lesbian couple. I am really looking forward to that.So hot! 🙂
marty 2019-01-06 03:20:59
@gang Just finished. Fucking so hot! I let the 3 girls do their thing for the first half. Was very interesting. Learned a few things tonight. Very fun. Hopefully practice a bit more. 🙂
Gang 2019-01-06 07:10:09
Learned a few things tonightEnlighten me 🙂 A fantasy I have yet never lived is 2 women or more getting passionate on their own and focused on each others while I observe and then I just add a little spice to whatever they are doing. The few 3somes I did were mostly straight, meaning the women were focused on me and waiting for my guidance, somehow shy to do lesbian things.
Blackdragon 2019-01-06 11:07:53
So it seems you might have changed your mind about virtual live in OLTR.Incorrect. You can indeed soft next a woman if you have two residences under a dual-live in OLTR or virtual OLTR. But that's not what I currently have nor was that what the above commenter was asking about. I suggest you read more carefully.
joelsuf 2019-01-06 11:14:04
Jack – Goodbye. You’re banned forever.NOOOOO!! I'm legitimately distressed, reading his hilarity was one of the most entertaining things about reading this blog. But I guess I'm glad he got the hammer...dude was getting annoying.
Gang 2019-01-06 11:22:41
that’s not what I currently haveI misunderstood that was what the office set at a studio was for. Thanks for having explained, this also answers the questions I had about your office.
Anon 2019-01-06 15:29:12
Was gonna expose him on my blogwhat exactly would you have stood to gain by that?
Stevie2 2019-01-06 17:42:54
Joel man.. please don’t doxx people, hey (perhaps goes 2x for doxxing people who know the law, credentialed or not). I always found JOTB’s comments amusing as all fuck, I mean I see how he could/would rile people with his style and zero tolerance approach but to me most stuff was in good humour (easier for me to say since I wasn’t the target and never involved in the discussion, granted). It’s a shame he’s gone, but having said that, the Sword of Damocles has obviously been hanging there for a while and he was yanking at it all the damn time.
Blackdragon 2019-01-06 19:23:03
Ugh... you guys are giving me a headache. Joelsuf - If you mention any kind of doxxing ever again, for any reason, even as a joke, I will ban you instantly since you expose me to legal problems when you talk about that, and it's a direct violation of Rule Number Two. Please note this is the second time I've had to warn you about something. If I have to warn you about anything ever again, there will be no warning, just an instant ban. Don't forget I said this. Everyone else - No more discussion about Jack please. That's drama and I don't do that. Let's be adults now and move on. Thanks.
Truc 2019-01-07 07:45:44
Hi BD, Again, thank you very much for the content you are putting out on non-mono relationships, you are really expanding the knowledge base, just like the originals PuA did way back. I have a question regarding your FBs if you don't mind : have you added new FBs recently (within the last 2 years let's say), and if yes, which site/app did you use? Thanks!
John 2019-01-07 07:49:09
People of all ages use the “Love Languages” even our own relationship counselor uses it.Maybe but of the 100's of more women I have talked to for the purpose of dating in the last year and a half only a handful have (must be a west coast thing the Khardashians) and they where a nightmare.
I have noticed that guys commenting on this blog are really into categorizing women due to their ageOk now that's funny. You really need to read BD's articles...
Blackdragon 2019-01-07 15:50:44
I have a question regarding your FBs if you don’t mind : have you added new FBs recently (within the last 2 years let’s say), and if yes, which site/app did you use?I don't have my spreadsheets handy but based on my memory, no one in the last year or so, but about 2-3 years ago yeah. It would have been Seeking Arrangement (a sugar daddy site) and/or Bumble.
Maybe but of the 100’s of more women I have talked to for the purpose of dating in the last year and a half only a handful have (must be a west coast thing the Khardashians) and they where a nightmare.I was the one who introduced PF to the five love languages, not the other way around.
marty 2019-01-07 19:12:09
@gang It's probably a bit off topic to go into to much detail about that. But it was exactly what you were talking about. 3 girls all pleasuring each other and I just watched and touched them gently here and there so as not to disturb what they were doing. Then at the end, they invited me to join in properly. The lesbian couple was very different in the way they approached licking, fingering, kissing and everything about the sex compare to what I would usually do as a guy. When I did get to lick one of them she directed me a lot to do different things to what I would do on my own to make her cum. It was definitely a lot of fun. Hopefully get round two soon. 🙂
Phero 2019-01-07 19:17:54
The ideal setting imo is a house for me and a granny flat for her for which she pays rent. And no legal marriage or marriage/convivial type agreements. Because there is none. And this is still risky, courts have ruled in favor and overulled wills to benefit mistresses. Anyone who is successful, and not wanting kids or more should never have to do what I read above imo. Of course each to their own, but the reasons are just endless. Yeah she seems blah blah as every man has said a million times. Then she switches to "married" mode. It's a story as old as the ages, with the difference that nowadays is much easier and beneficial for her to do. Good luck
Blackdragon 2019-01-07 22:41:09
It’s a story as old as the ages, with the difference that nowadays is much easier and beneficial for her to do....under a TMM model, yes. I have an OLTR marriage instead. I'm covered.
Ted 2019-01-08 00:09:13
@ BD Thanks for the answers. I wish all the Best and happiness for you and Pink Firefly. Even if you have a big roster I suspect you can pull easily someone to make her MLTR again if something goes wrong with an OLTR. may be few FB for occasional sex but after being so distant for a long time it must be hard to do. I actually wanted to ask how easy picking a women would be from the roster to start a serious relationship again if OLTR relationship fails? if not easy, then all of your past investments kind of wasted, right? at a time when you are really looking for it at old ages..
Blackdragon 2019-01-08 09:29:21
Thanks for the answers. I wish all the Best and happiness for you and Pink Firefly.Thanks dude.
Even if you have a big roster I suspect you can pull easily someone to make her MLTR again if something goes wrong with an OLTR.Correct, but as I implied above, I would not do this. If this marriage ended for whatever reason I would probably keep it to nothing but young FBs for a few years and focus on my Mission, then later upgrade (or find) an MLTR or two when I was around age 50-51. I wouldn't even attempt another OLTR until my early to mid 50s. Ramping up a new OLTR takes more time and emotional energy than maintaining an existing one, and I just don't have the time right now.
I actually wanted to ask how easy picking a women would be from the roster to start a serious relationship again if OLTR relationship fails?For an MLTR? Most likely it would be relatively easy. But again, I personally wouldn't do it at this point in my life.
POS 2019-01-08 09:42:17
BD kudos to your possibilities and arrangements. Your level of work commitment is much more impressive to me than any other topic you cover, so I know it's well deserved. You're my biggest inspiration in that regard. And everyone bitching about washing dishes... Ever heard of dishwashers? 😉 For me 2 of the most time saving home appliances are dishwasher and dryer.
Harry Flashman 2019-01-08 12:15:58
BD, you got married and moved into a 3800 sf house, for two people. Welcome back to marriage, my friend! Haha. The Alpha 2.0 is quickly fading. You’ll be a suburban dad cutting the grass on Saturdays and mumbling about your honey-do list before long.
Harry Flashman 2019-01-08 15:02:11
BD, you are certainly an inspiration to all those who have suffered as married betas. But it sounds like your Alpha 2.0 is basically, a marriage where you both enjoy the swinger lifestyle, mostly separately and sometimes together. You’ve brought dating to a conclusion and have regular play partners who are sugar babies you met through SA. You rent your home and work from your home office on a 1099. All that said, most guys would kill to have that setup, but it doesn’t sound that unusual nowadays, other than the not legal marriage part.
Pink Firefly 2019-01-08 15:24:41
not legal marriage part.What do you mean by this??
Pink Firefly 2019-01-08 15:28:34
You’ll be a suburban dad cutting the grass on SaturdaysThis is hilarious! You must never read his articles because if you read his stuff you would know this was certainly not true! I would love to see him actually mow the lawn once in my life though! 🙂 I would have to video it and post it on here for you guys so you could laugh with me.
Mike Hunter 2019-01-08 19:38:57
Black Dragon: How many of your current FB's are sugar babies? How many did you pick up from 'vanilla' dating sites instead?
Blackdragon 2019-01-09 10:11:02
This is hilarious! You must never read his articles because if you read his stuff you would know this was certainly not true!Yeah his comment was nonsensical. I think he realized that which is why he followed up with that second one.
Black Dragon: How many of your current FB’s are sugar babies? How many did you pick up from ‘vanilla’ dating sites instead?Dude now we're way off topic. I've already answered questions like that in this thread and I probably shouldn't have (my policy is to not answer off-topic comments). Save those questions for the next time I discuss that topic. We're talking about house layout here.
JohnnySixpack 2019-01-10 08:30:27
Regarding Pink Firefly’s reaction when commenters qualify your marriage: Her asking what we mean by “legal marriage” is obviously that we mean the traditional type with a marriage license conveyed by a municipality and the usual “threesome with the State” that usually accompanies it. Your description of a “marriage” and ceremony, etc but with iron-clad contracts that would keep her from pursuing a claim against property in the event of a divorce would seem to imply that it is not a marriage in the classical legal sense but more a construct of your own making. Now, since we (the readers) have an incomplete data set for completely understandable privacy reasons on your part—most of us have concluded that your marriage is, while completely sincere to each other and your families, it is perhaps not backed up by a marriage license issued by a government agency...which would make it “legal” from a statutory point of view. Is PF bristling at the comment because the two of you *do* have a recorded, licensed marriage certificate...or is she bristling because you *dont* and it is creating some cogdis when it is pointed out. I want to add that I am asking because I am trying to see if this is something I could make happen in the future with my OLTR so I’m grateful that you are blazing the trail for others to watch and learn.
Blackdragon 2019-01-10 11:35:22
Is PF bristling at the comment because the two of you *do* have a recorded, licensed marriage certificate…or is she bristling because you *dont* and it is creating some cogdis when it is pointed outI can't publicly disclose any details regarding any legal / financial arrangements with anyone, PF included. I explained why here. I will tell you that there is extensive legal background to our marriage, more so than with most and it's quite "official" but PF and I can't give you any details and never will.
CTV 2019-01-15 15:41:00
Just read these Comments.. Just read the comments.. Da Fuq?! People really started talking out of the side of their fucking neck! It was like Alex Jones and a shit tornado was up in this bitch! Anyway! #BackToPositivity Just turning 30 and realizing I've always had a propensity toward being like this as a kid and even more after seeing Xander Cage on XXX.. This Blog really helps me put it all into words. I've found myself more ready to have an OLTR at this age and looking at your articles and material to do so.. And I can't say that my FETLIFE account didn't have a hand.. I've narrowed down the type of girl I want for an OLTR.. Blackdragon I'm happy for both you and PinkFireFly. Keep it up
Esau Alfaro 2019-12-11 11:01:45
First time I see PF reply to blog posts and all she see are haters. Very sad honestly. BD this is a very intetesting post. I really admire you and understand you just want the best for both Pink Firefly and you. And I really hope you guys keep being happy! Marriage is something I'm not considering yet (I'm 25 and I try to follow your advice), but it is still very interesting to read how things are going for you. Blessings friend and keep being awesome!
RedPillSwingerPL 2020-03-18 04:00:25
Hi BD, I've just registered to your blog after reading one of your books. It pretty much resonated with my life experience. In a few months I'll hit the 10-year mark into swinging (I'm 34) and I've never been monogamous. I've always lived on my own and never let a woman stay for more than 3-4 days at my place. Recently, I downgraded a potential OLTR to MLTR because we were planning to move in (signing a cohabitation contract) but she reneged on the only agreement that made sense and unilaterally set a "no FB/ONS at home" rule. I kept frame, let her out and downgraded her telling her that she was free to enter into such a relationship with someone else if she so desired. Now, I'm not going back on my decision and we're still having sex. However, as for the future and for the next MLTR that approaches OLTR status, what's your take on "no FB/ONS at home"? Logistics are vital and knowing women they're likely to 1) live in crap places which are difficult to reach and/or cohabitate with their girlfriends since men are expected to "grow up" and "own their place" 2) Have huge ASD that prevents them to fuck in hotel rooms/cars unless they're already married 3) I have 6 women I see regularly and they're pretty much scattered on the FB-MLTR spectrum, the vast majority don't have good logistics not to mention younger women on dating apps. Is there a way to move in and not lose a good 80% of your non-monogamous friends? Thanks for all of your advice, always appreciated.