Get Free Email Updates!
Join us for FREE to get instant email updates!
Won’t She Have Sex with Other Guys?
Whenever the discussion of monogamy not working and non-monogamy being a less-bad option is had, many men bring up all kinds of excuses as to why they would “never do” non-monogamy. They will usually blurt out some knee-jerk excuses without really thinking them through, like what their mothers will think, how they might get an STD, and so on.
-By Caleb Jones
I listed every excuse and objection to non-monogamy that anyone could possibly come up with along with their answers in this article here, and I strongly suggest you read that article if you have concerns about non-monogamy. I also wrote a separate article addressing the concerns men have about OLTR Marriage and open marriages here.
Rarely are these concerns what men are really concerned about. Usually these weak objections are smokescreens for the real concern men have about this. Often these men don’t want to actually verbalize this concern because they don’t want to look weak, or needy, or like a beta, or like they have oneitis. So instead they toss out a bullshit irrational or philosophical objection about “What if everyone did that?” or how sex really isn’t that important or some other nonsense.
But you and I know what the real concern is, don’t we? It’s simply that this guy couldn’t emotionally handle it if the woman he was dating, or his girlfriend, or his wife actually ended up having sex with another guy.
I’ve addressed this concern many times and in many ways over the years, but I’ve never devoted an article to it specifically. This is that article. This is the official and comprehensive answer to the concern of “OMG she might fuck another guy oh nooooooo!!!!”
Here we go...1. Not all women will automatically have sex with other men just because they are in a non-monogamous relationship.
As I discussed in great detail in The Unchained Man, women follow a completely different sexual pattern than men. Most men stupidly think that women view sex just like men. In other words, that women are horny as hell 24/7, thinking about sex all the time, and will leap at the chance to fuck other men as soon as they’re given permission to do so.
No. That’s how we men view sex. But women don’t. While there are some women like this (I’ll address them in a minute), most women are not. Instead, women go through phases in their lives where they are very horny, and other times where they barely want sex at all.
I have vast experience having many multi-year-long non-monogamous relationships. In addition, over the past ten years I’ve communicated with thousands of men who have as well. From all of this data I can tell you for a fact that approximately 10% of women in FB relationships and 50% of women in MLTR or OLTR relationships will not have sex with other men even if you’re having sex with other women. They don’t want to. Either they’re going through a phase where they aren’t interested, or their ASD is very high, or they’re older, or for various other reasons known only to the female psyche.
Granted, this does leave 90% of women in FB relationships and a remaining 50% of women in MLTR or OLTR relationships who may have sex with other men at certain times in the relationship (though not consistently). I’ll address those in a minute.
The point here is that just because you would love to have sex with other women all the time does not mean that the woman you’re dating would love to have sex with other men all the time.
Dude. You’re projecting. Women are not men. Their behavior patterns are very different.2. Older women are far less likely to have sex with other men.
I have said repeatedly that men should not have a girlfriend (monogamous or non-monogamous doesn’t matter) until he’s 30 years old, shouldn’t move in with a woman (legally married or not doesn’t matter) until he’s at least 35 years old, and shouldn’t have any kids until he’s around 40 years old and has accomplished most of his financial/career goals.
I have also said that no man of any age should get into a really serious relationship with long-term expectations with any woman under the age of about 25. Less serious relationships with women under 25 are perfectly fine; I have several FBs who are well under this age. But a serious relationship with long-term expectations with women these young is usually a recipe for disaster. Read this for more details.
This means that if you do this correctly and aren’t stupid, the few women you’ll have in your life who are very serious (serious, long-term girlfriends or wives) are going to be a little older.
As I’ve talked about in great detail, the older a woman gets, the more her ASD grows. This is a real problem when you want to have sex with her on the first or second date, but when it comes to having sex with other men in a non-monogamous relationship, this ASD actually helps you, since because of that very same ASD, she is far less likely to actually have sex with other men outside of you.
Because of her ever-growing ASD, she’ll likely consider things like that as immature, gross, and/or inappropriate for her to do. She’ll tolerate you doing it because you’re a man, and as all high-ASD over-33 women know, men are immature barbarians. So, if you do it she’ll roll her eyes and accept it (provided you're managing the relationship correctly of course), but she has no interest in doing the same.
I’ll give you just one simple example. I’m in an OLTR Marriage that is sexually open. Both me and my wife Pink Firefly are allowed to have sex with other people. Of course, I regularly have sex with my FBs on a weekly basis. However, Pink Firefly is a quiet, reserved, ASD-filled, decently high-Disney, practicing Christian (meaning she actually goes to church and shit) and full-time preschool teacher in her forties. Do you really think she has any desire whatsoever to hit up Tinder or her local bar to go bang dudes? Do you really think she would enjoy that kind of thing? Do you think she would consider any of that appropriate for her?
The answer is no. And that is typical for women her age.
You’re going to spend most of your life well beyond age 35. This means that any serious women in your life are likely also going to be that age or older, at least for most of your life (again, unless you’re ridiculously stupid and marry a 19-year-old). The odds are overwhelming that these women are not going to have any interest in banging other guys just because you’re doing the same with other women, and most other Alpha Male 2.0s will report exactly this. (It's it a 100% guarantee? No. There are no 100% guarantees in life. But the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor, particularity if you take my relationship advice and manage the relationship correctly.)
3. Young, hot girls are going to have sex with other men, but you shouldn’t be in serious relationships with these women in the first place, so you shouldn’t give a shit.
Older women probably won’t have sex with other men in non-monogamous relationships. However, it is certainly true that if you’re seeing a much younger woman (under the age of 25 or so) she will probably hook up with other guys and do so with glee. Double this if she’s really good looking, and double that again if she’s very extroverted and/or has a large social circle.
Yes, most of the hot younger women I’ve been with, both now and in the past, were indeed having sex with other guys, and sometimes even other girls. Many of them, perhaps even most of them had full-on boyfriends they were cheating on by being with me. (Monogamy doesn't work, guys! Get it through your fuckin' heads!)
But once again, you shouldn’t be in serious relationships with women like this in the first place. FBs or lower-end MLTRs with women like this are perfectly fine. Wonderful, in fact. But if you’re 34 years old and are shocked that your smokin’ hot 19-year-old FB fucks some random guy at a party, you shouldn’t be surprised.
More importantly, you shouldn’t care. And if you do care, if you really, really, really care deeply about what a friggin’ 19-year-old teenager you’re banging is doing in her spare time, then my friend, you have some serious neediness issues you need to work through. It’s not about non-monogamy or women having sex with other men at this point; it’s about you and your neediness issues.
By the way, if you’re dumb enough to get into a committed, monogamous relationship with a young, cute girl, guess what? SHE’LL FUCK OTHER GUYS BEHIND YOUR BACK ANYWAY. I have said numerous times that women under the age of about 23 are functionally incapable of sexual monogamy even if they promise it. Do you realize how many women this age I was having sex with who had boyfriends they were cheating on? Haven’t I said many times that one of the dumbest things’ men do is get into monogamous relationships with young girls and then expect them to never cheat?
Sexual monogamy is not in the cards for young, hot women no matter what kind of relationship you have with them. Accept it, or never have sex with any women this young.
4. Even, if in the worst case scenario it actually happens, you get used to it very quickly. The only reason it’s a big deal to you is because it hasn’t happened to you yet.
Let’s take the worst case scenario and say that you’re a super jealous guy who tries non-monogamy but you go out of your way to screen for a woman who is less likely to have sex with other men (screening is a huge mistake in my opinion, but let’s go with it). One day you discover that she’s had sex with another guy.
Are you going to feel jealous? Yes. Are you going to be upset? Probably. Will that be a happy day for you? No. You’ll probably even go all Alpha Male 1.0 and start a bunch of drama with her that will cause her to leave you. (Then you’ll whine and cry on my blogs like a little bitch and ask about how to get her back.)
Let’s say a few weeks later it happens again, maybe with the same woman or maybe with a new woman (because the first woman dumped you when you bitched at her about it).
Are you going to feel uncomfortable again? Yes. However, you notice that the discomfort isn’t quite as bad as the first time. Oh, it’s still bad, just not as bad.
But since you’re intelligent and rational enough to know that monogamy doesn’t work at all, you stick with it and keep going with it. And it happens a third time, then a fourth time, again, either with the same woman or some new woman you’re dating.
By the fifth time, something weird happens. As soon as you find out, you just sort of shrug. You don’t really care, and you just get back to what you were doing. Then you stop and catch yourself and realize how weird it is that you barely care right now when the first time it happened just a few weeks ago you were ready to kill someone.
Wow. What a difference. It’s like night and day.
That’s exactly how this works most of the time. Most guys quickly stop giving a shit about this stuff, particularly in less serious FB and MLTR relationships (which is what you should start with if you're new to this world). That’s what will probably happen to you as well, if you just stop being a terrified little bitch and give it a chance.
All of the above points were minor sub-points. I’ve actually been leading up to THE point, THE answer to the “But I can’t handle it if she fucks another guy” concern.
Here it is:
5. THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE TO NON-MONOGAMY DOESN’T FUCKING WORK YOU IDIOT!
Whenever any guy says or implies that he won’t do any sort of non-monogamy because he just can’t handle his women possibly having sex with other men, the unspoken but implied second half of that statement is that he’ll just stick with monogamy and somehow he’ll make that work.
But he won’t. Because he can’t. Because monogamy doesn’t work.
As I’ve analyzed in great detail at this blog and in my books over the past ten years, with mountains of science, stats, history, and psychology, human beings, men and women both, hate sexual monogamy, particularly past a time frame of about 6-24 months.
Long-term sexual monogamy, or Disney monogamy, doesn’t work at all. You’ll either get divorced or one of you will cheat. Marriage is fine (I’m married myself), having kids is fine (have two myself), but being sexually monogamous to just one person for the rest of your life won’t fucking work and you know it.
Serial monogamy is an inconsistent lifestyle of forever ups and downs. Sometimes you’ll be happy and just as often you’ll be miserable during your frequent arguments and breakups. This kind of lifestyle might be okay for a few years in your twenties or early thirties, but going through frequent breakups and looking around for a new girlfriend every two years is not going to make you happy in your forties, fifties, or beyond. (I already addressed all the points of pro-serial monogamy people here and here.)
And don’t even try to come up with a “you can fuck other women all you want but she can’t ever fuck other men” scenario. That won’t work long-term in the Western world; Read this.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner]
So, if you never want to do any sort of non-monogamy because you just can’t handle the woman perhaps having sex with another man, great. I want your specific plan for exactly what you’re going to do over the next 40 years of your life to maintain long-term happiness in your relationship life with women. If you can’t articulate this in very specific terms, then you’ve just proved my entire point. Monogamy doesn’t work in the long-term, you know it doesn’t work, but you don’t want to try any other system, so you’re going to just stick with a system you know doesn’t work.
Assuming you want women in your life, you’ve got two choices:
- Stick with a system that is guaranteed to not work for you in the long run (monogamy).
- Use the alternative (non-monogamy, there are 14 different kinds) that might, maybe make you emotionally uncomfortable for a little while until you get used to it and won’t be nearly as bad as you now fantasize.
The choice is yours.
The Alpha Male 2.0 Focus Program is where you meet with me and a small group of men one-on-one four times over the course of a year to improve your financial and woman life 90 days at a time. There is a huge discount if you sign up before February 16th and our first session is in March! Click here for the details.
Get Free Email Updates!
Join us for FREE to get instant email updates!
POB 2020-02-10 05:42:50
Thank you very much for this article! That's all I have to say.
CSR 2020-02-10 06:42:32
The main reason a woman in a relationship will not start having sex straight away with other men is because women are serial monogamists. As long as she's attracted to you it'll be fine. That's why monogamy "seems to work" during the NRE. Now, young women cheat more often because they are at their prime. A woman will never be as attractive as she's in her early 20s so she looks for the best alpha cock they can find no matter what. Hypergamy unleashed and it makes perfect evolutionary sense. So, when a woman approaches or hits the Wall (mid 30s), her looks start to fade very quickly and now she realizes she'll never be as attractive as she once was, therefore the quality of the males she's able to catch starts to fall down dramatically. This means she has to lower her expectations and because she feels that's she's about to lose the last train, she can't "waste her time" just having sex. She needs commitment. This is the reason why "women over the age of 33" as BD says are more demanding and more difficult to have sex with. It's got nothing to do with ASD, religion, Disney or anything like that. It's that she needs to secure a guy now before it's too late for her, so she can't waste time fooling around like she did in her 20s.
Blackdragon 2020-02-10 08:20:24
Thank you very much for this article!You're very welcome.
This is the reason why “women over the age of 33” as BD says are more demanding and more difficult to have sex with. It’s got nothing to do with ASD, religion, Disney or anything like that. It’s that she needs to secure a guy now before it’s too late for her, so she can’t waste time fooling around like she did in her 20s.That's ASD. (One type of it.) In many cases it's Disney too.
CCMidwest 2020-02-10 08:22:35
The concern is really a self confidence issue with the man, myself included. Maybe he's got a bigger dick, or he's taller, or he's a better lover, or he's whatever. Maybe he's "higher value" than me is really the concern. Which is a scarcity mindset and completely irrational, but that's human emotions for you. I still struggle with this and have to consciously work on keeping it to myself so that yeah, I don't seem beta, weak, whatever. I'm at a point now though where this only comes up with women I perceive as high quality and I have an emotional connection with. My current MLTR for example. Great gal and I absolutely care for her, so that emotion comes up. I prefer for my FB's to be seeing other dudes though, it keeps them from contacting me too much. Logically I know those emotions are irrational, and it's taking constant self improvement, creating true abundance, discipline, and mental training to overcome it. Can't expect 38 years of society's BS script to change in my mind over night I suppose.
Cobi 2020-02-10 08:36:13
I guess most Indians have a monogamous relationship because of the culture and SP. I guess all that's going to change and is already changing because of globalization and the false narrative that you can't find happiness with one woman your entire life. Married men feel left out when they find out their friends are sleeping with new women every week because of tinder and all these dating apps. I don't think men and women were wired to have a non monogamous relationships. It's just that there's do much choice these days, you fall prey to your own lust.
Blackdragon 2020-02-10 08:37:30
The concern is really a self confidence issue with the man, myself included. Maybe he’s got a bigger dick, or he’s taller, or he’s a better lover, or he’s whatever. Maybe he’s “higher value” than me is really the concern. Which is a scarcity mindset and completely irrational, but that’s human emotions for you.That goes away, especially when you realize how beta other men are. As I've talked about several times before, many years ago I dated a woman in a very serious high-end MLTR for many years. Like many hot, young, extroverted women (she was all three), at some points during the relationship she would go hook up with other guys. Often these guys where young black dudes with perfect, ripped six-pack bodies, and this was back when I was the chubbiest I had ever been in my entire life. The first time or two she did it, and I saw a picture of the guys, I admit I had some of those feelings too. But then I saw what these guys did and how they behaved, and suddenly I stopped giving a shit. I actually started to enjoy it. These guys would text her and call her, over and over again, about how much they loved her and how much they wanted to see her again and how much they missed her, even after only seeing her once or twice. One of them tricked her into introducing her to his parents as his new "girlfriend" after fucking her just twice. Another guy sent her a video of himself crying because she said no to seeing him a certain day (because she was seeing me). And so on. They were higher SMV in terms of physical appearance, but in terms of literally every other aspect I was light years beyond these men in every way as an Alpha Male 2.0, and she saw that. She was horribly turned off by 100% of all these guys and none of them lasted more than a 2-3 meets with her before she got disgusted with their neediness. On the other hand, she saw me for 5.5 years straight with no breaks or LSNFTEs of any kind. (I could have gone much longer than that (I could have OLTR married her) but she wanted kids and I didn't so I eventually had to end it when I realized that was her priority.) As I said in the article, you just lack real-world practice on this. Most men, including guys with six packs and big cocks or whatever, are uber-level beta males and thus are thoroughly unattractive to women. They are not your competition.
Blackdragon 2020-02-10 08:44:33
I guess most Indians have a monogamous relationship because of the culture and SP.Correct.
I guess all that’s going to change and is already changing because of globalization and the false narrative that you can’t find happiness with one woman your entire life.Correct; divorce rates in India are already starting to rise. (Same with China and Taiwan.) I've personally spoken with several Indian guys living in India going through divorces.
Married men feel left out when they find out their friends are sleeping with new women every week because of tinder and all these dating apps.Haha; that's exactly how I felt when I was monogamously married. I can relate.
I don’t think men and women were wired to have a non monogamous relationships.Incorrect. Men and women aren't wired for monogamous relationships that last longer than 6-24 months. Neither gender was ever designed for anything like that. Men are directly wired for non-monogamous relationships. (Women are more wired for short-term serial monogamy.)
hollywood 2020-02-10 09:34:05
I mean besides all the obvious points of this article, I look at it like this: The likelihood is if I went with monogamy, she will eventually cheat on me. I've had it happen when I was monogamously married, didn't know at the time it was happening, and she was sleeping with me just as regularly as usual. Since then, I've been with several women who were cheating and have no problem with it. So if the chances are that I'm going to be cheated on anyway, why not just eliminate that possibility? The people who read your advice and still choose monogamy are the people who bury their head in the sand about uncomfortable truths. These are the people who prefer to be lied to in order to believe a falsehood that makes them comfortable. Plenty of women are conditioned to do just that, so if you want to live a fairy tale, go for it, but eventually she will get tired of writing fairy tales for you and leave you anyway and then you'll be devastated. I can tell you this, the women that are good at cheating and covering it up, are absolutely amazed when they get with an Alpha 2.0 and realize he doesn't give a shit what they do. It's almost impossible for them to believe, but once they realize it's real, they get obsessed. Like this blog often says, Outcome Independence is the single most attractive thing about a man to a woman.
hollywood 2020-02-10 09:37:58
What does irritate me about some of the women I date.. Before they have had the talk or truly understand I am nonmonogamous, they will lie to me about seeing other guys. They can definitely sense that I am seeing other women, and often times will see other guys but lie about it. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if this is normal because I haven't heard this from others on your blog. The ones that lie to me like this typically make it difficult for me to see them as anything more than an fb. I have no issues with an fb that I can't technically trust, but mltr or greater, I need to be able to trust them. I don't end up with many MLTR's because of this.
Federico 2020-02-10 09:45:36
These guys would text her and call her, over and over again, about how much they loved her and how much they wanted to see her again and how much they missed her, even after only seeing her once or twice. One of them tricked her into introducing her to his parents as his new “girlfriend” after fucking her just twice. Another guy sent her a video of himself crying because she said no to seeing him a certain day (because she was seeing me). And so on.Why were you interested in seeing their pictures, reading their texts or knowing anything about them? And would you be interested now? Also, did she take any advantage from your 2.0 style? By that I mean at least sleeping/staying in a better home (yours), doing fun but expensive things, or enjoying good quality lifestyle just by being with you, and not necessarily meaning you had to spend extra money on her.
Viking 2020-02-10 09:49:45
Ahh, SP and OBW... SP is fairly easy to correct. Not so with your bioligical wiring path carved out over 100,000 years. Yes, your bad feelings about your special woman is obsolete. So is the fear of spiders, flying and speaking in public. You have to deal with it if you want a trip to the forest, visiting your family or be a leader of some kind.
Anchorman 2020-02-10 09:53:59
The concern is really a self confidence issue with the man, myself included. Maybe he’s got a bigger dick, or he’s taller, or he’s a better lover, or he’s whatever. Maybe he’s “higher value” than me is really the concern. Which is a scarcity mindset and completely irrational, but that’s human emotions for you. I still struggle with this and have to consciously work on keeping it to myself so that yeah, I don’t seem beta, weak, whatever.A bit more experience and this concern vanishes and you'll laugh at yourself that you ever felt it. learn to be an incredible lover. read the david shade manuals. make her orgasm and you'll never worry about feeling inferior. ever. stop caring. easier said than done, yes, I know. but just stop. when you realize that the world is your oyster and that you are god's gift to women, then you simply don't care what bullshit they pull anymore. Have fun brother.
CCMidwest 2020-02-10 10:24:02
learn to be an incredible loverAbsolutely. I'm at at the point where all of the last 8 or so women have said I'm the best sex they've ever had and they get bloody obsessed. That's why I like when my FB's have other dudes cause they leave me alone. Otherwise I have a lot of texts to ignore every week from women trying to see me more often than I want haha. But yeah, as you and BD said just need more experience to get passed this. Don't care what FB's do or who they fuck, just the one's I actually care about that it gets to me a bit. Bit of a scarcity mindset when it comes to women I actually like beyond just sex, because it's rare for me to actually like or care for a woman. (In a "romantic" way for lack of a better word, I'm good friends with my FB's but don't feel "that way" about them) My current MLTR is cute, more logical than most women, positive, energetic, great in the sack, and a true independent that likes to be submissive to me. Those women are a bit rare lol It would be very easy to slip into de facto monogamy with her. My first ever MLTR too. I made it a point to have one of my FB's come over tonight and another one tomorrow to keep my mind in check haha. This shit is fun!
Jared 2020-02-10 10:26:44
Hey, sorry if you answered this before, but... how does PF act when you come back from an "excursion"? And... was it really hard for her at first? Did she ever leave you temporarily? And... I'm guessing "no", but, do you ever talk about the other women? I mean, when you come home with a big smile on your face, I'd think it might be kind of hard not to at least say a few words, haha. (By the way, I remember that you actually live semi-seperately - upstairs and downstairs.)
Viking 2020-02-10 10:34:28
"Proof" of OBW: you get upset when she fucks a new guy after she starts fucking you. Not so much if she has a boyfriend or is still fucking the same guy she had before you. Order of event is what often creates bad feelings, not the actual event. Don't underestimate the power of expectations. Tip: whoever and whenever you fuck, allways assume she is fucking someone else besides you. Start rewiring your brain from the beginning of any relationships.
CCMidwest 2020-02-10 10:41:55
But then I saw what these guys did and how they behaved, and suddenly I stopped giving a shit. I actually started to enjoy it.Good point. I've also had my FB's compare me to other men and they've been down right brutal about the other guys. Women can be harsh holy shit. Constant texting, begging, bad in the bedroom, getting serious way too quickly, judging the girls for putting out too soon or not soon enough, posting on facebook about "finding love", changing facebook relationship status after 2 dates, etc. Gotcha. Thanks for the advice.
Daniel 2020-02-10 10:53:55
I know you're not into threesomes BD, but here's a hypothetical for ya.. Let's say you are in a serious relationship with a woman who has bisexual tendencies. You regularly invite a female friend(s) over to join you for sex as a threesome. You don't sleep with anyone else outside of these threesomes, and neither does she. And yet the "variety fix" of other sexual partners is somehow satisfied. For both of you. Would it be possible that this "monogomish" relationship could defy the odds if the main woman was satisfied with just having her Alpha Male (thus not wanting any other man) and some revolving female playmates under the umbrella of threesomes? I know, this may be a too good to be true scenario but it's a fun concept to explore.
Blackdragon 2020-02-10 11:13:46
So if the chances are that I’m going to be cheated on anyway, why not just eliminate that possibility?Yup. And the younger and/or better-looking and/or more extroverted she is, the more likely she is to cheat. In other words, the type of women men theoretically want the most is the exact same type most likely to cheat on you.
These are the people who prefer to be lied to in order to believe a falsehood that makes them comfortable.There are many people like this, yes. Men and women both.
I can tell you this, the women that are good at cheating and covering it up, are absolutely amazed when they get with an Alpha 2.0 and realize he doesn’t give a shit what they do. It’s almost impossible for them to believe, but once they realize it’s real, they get obsessed. Like this blog often says, Outcome Independence is the single most attractive thing about a man to a woman.Exactly accurate.
Why were you interested in seeing their pictures, reading their texts or knowing anything about them?I wasn't. She showed me.
And would you be interested now?I wasn't then and wouldn't now.
Also, did she take any advantage from your 2.0 style? By that I mean at least sleeping/staying in a better home (yours)No. I had a shitty lower-middle-class house back then with an overgrown lawn and no furniture.
doing fun but expensive thingsNever. I don't spend money on MLTRs like that and neither should you. Usually when we went out to eat she would pay.
Hey, sorry if you answered this before, but… how does PF act when you come back from an “excursion”?These days, she doesn't really do anything. Sometimes she'll say something like, "Did you have fun?" and I'll shrug but usually she says nothing. Also, as a courtesy to her, I try my best to see my FBs when during the day when she's at work so it's out of sight out of mind (though she can see it on my schedule when I do it; I don't hide things from her).
And… was it really hard for her at first?No. It was easier for her at first since we weren't serious back then.
Did she ever leave you temporarily?No. Many years ago when she was just an FB and we weren't dating, we didn't see each other for about a year because I got busy with other women but that's not her leaving me.
And… I’m guessing “no”, but, do you ever talk about the other women?Rarely, but occasionally. PF is more comfortable when she knows a little about who my FBs are. If she's totally in the dark she gets uncomfortable. However, some women are the exact opposite, so you need to know which type your woman is before you upgrade her to OLTR.
I mean, when you come home with a big smile on your faceI always have a smile on my face so there's no difference. (I'm not joking; I'm serious, just ask PF.)
I’d think it might be kind of hard not to at least say a few words, haha.No. The instant I'm done with my FBs they're out of my mind and my total focus returns to my work and Mission. I don't get "excited" about my FBs. As wonderful as my sex life is, it's very normal to me now. For me, my work life is far more exciting than my sex life.
(By the way, I remember that you actually live semi-seperately – upstairs and downstairs.)More or less. We have the same bedroom though.
I know you’re not into threesomes BDTrue but I've had my share, including recently.
but here’s a hypothetical for yaI don't do hypothetical questions.
Let’s say you are in a serious relationship with a woman who has bisexual tendencies. You regularly invite a female friend(s) over to join you for sex as a threesome.I've done exactly that in real life many, many times, not a hypothetical.
You don’t sleep with anyone else outside of these threesomesI would never agree to a relationship like that and you shouldn't either; that's essentially de facto monogamy and 100% of men I've seen attempt it end up with a massive problem in the relationship. "Monogamish" is a beta male fantasy that never works in real life. See why I don't do hypotheticals?
(No longer judo)John 2020-02-10 11:28:54
#4 is the big deal. For my last 3 LTRs, '94 to today, I was, to them, N=4, 1, and 1. I got spoiled. Also, only two other new women in that entire time frame. Ouch. I know it's a matter of systematic desensitization. BD, I don't think one can be an alcoholic and Alpha 2.0. It's amazing how well booze replaces women. It's not freedom, though. The last 3 years have been heroic booze wise, stupidly in an apartment tailor made for Getting Laid. Test levels of 647 at 47.... and that was only a few days off of booze, it's been over 2 weeks now..... I'm starting to feel frisky. Women are reacting to me differently. I do a lot of partner dance and I swear the follows were treating me differently than when I was inevitably and obviously tipsy: more eye contact, more blushing, more looking away, more physical contact, more comfort in close proximity. Again booze not only kills motivation, it changes the calculus for women too. Sober dudes avoid the constant miscalculations of drunkards.
JJ 2020-02-10 11:45:25
BD, though I agree about way more than 90% of things you write about, the two choices you give at the end sum up where we diverge. Let me use this tech metaphor. Those two choices you gave encompass 15 different mode selections on an app. The problem is not the app is the operating system. Sex 2.0 is the operating system - the dominant operating system which, as we both know, does not work. Pretty much all of the 15 options you wrote about are modal variants of the same operating system which is why they don't work. The problem is the operating system, not the mode of the app.
Yan 2020-02-10 12:09:05
I think the biggest lesson I learnt from Caleb is to not give a shit. Yesterday I went to dance salsa in my usual club. Before I would approach any girls being very needy and thinking those girls will fuck anyone except me and as a beta I was terrified. Having separated two years ago and applied Caleb's techniques, yesterday I was shocked how my outcome independence improved, what a surprise when this hot smoking black girl asked for my number and walked to the tube with me asking when she will see me again. Not giving a shit is your most attractive trait don't underestimate it!!!! In the back of my mind I know she will fuck other guys, but what the hell?? I don't have time anymore. I have 2 fbs, having great sex and I am focus on building my first alpha 2.0 business and creating a mission which drives me emotionally on a daily basis.
Blackdragon 2020-02-10 12:25:58
BD, I don’t think one can be an alcoholic and Alpha 2.0.Correct, since one can't be an alcoholic and long-term consistently happy at the same time.
BD, though I agree about way more than 90% of things you write about, the two choices you give at the end sum up where we diverge.Monogamy, some kind of non-monogamy, or never have relationships (just have meaningless sex or be celibate), those are your only choices. If you think I'm wrong, please precisely describe what the fourth option is.
Not giving a shit is your most attractive trait don’t underestimate it!!!!Yup. Outcome Independence is the most attractive non-physical trait you have to women.
GunsNRoses 2020-02-10 12:42:13
Comment deleted for violation of Rule Number One.
POB 2020-02-10 13:19:17
I also forgot to point out some stuff missing from your article: 1 - women hate to go on dates, specially after a certain age. So the odds of her fucking another dude out of the blue instantly go out the window. Most likely she'll get some D from en ex beta BF who will bore her to death, or an ex controlling Alpha BF who already cheated on her and tried to control her life... so she'll come back to you eager to have some Alpha 2.0 cock and energy who's a chill positive dude and free of drama; 2 - if you are really outcome independent, have goals and do not care about irrelevant shit like who's having sex with who, you are automatically putting yourself above every other guys she's ever been with...this spikes attraction on a level she's never seen before, so the odds of her leaving drop even more; 3 - every Alpha 2.0 should have this mindset: I'm way better than every other regular dude...I work harder, I acomplish more and I'm 100% free on a caged world. I fear nobody and nobody can take me down, no matter what;
John 2020-02-10 14:05:50
I'll tell you what, BD: I think you underestimate how long term happy functional drunkards can be. Booze makes drunkards feel just fucking dandy. Nothing but comfort zone. Beta as all get out, of course. But more consistent than you can imagine. Light bulb moment. The more notches I get this year, the less likely I am to drink. Women are the sirens drawing me away from drink. It wasn't my imagination, every follow reacted differently and positively to sober me last night. I'm almost jealous of ugly dudes. At least they have an excuse to drink.
Jared 2020-02-10 14:08:43
Haha, thanks for answering. I just think it's hilarious how a totally, completely Disney woman puts up with you. I mean.... preschool teacher?? I don't know if you've dropped that detail before xD
Blackdragon 2020-02-10 14:36:08
I think you underestimate how long term happy functional drunkards can be. Booze makes drunkards feel just fucking dandyIn that moment, while they're drunk, of course they happy. I'm talking about the rest of the time and the quality of life when they're not drinking.
I just think it’s hilarious how a totally, completely Disney woman puts up with you.She doesn't need to "put up with me." I am a very, very good husband to her, far better than 90% of all other husbands out there. I have to be if I want a long-term low-drama marriage.
I mean…. preschool teacher?? I don’t know if you’ve dropped that detail before xDBecause it's new as of October.
CrabRangoon 2020-02-10 15:49:11
And again for you guys who still think TMM is a swell idea, I just had a conversation with a female coworker today about her pending marriage. She's so happy she can stop putting in effort to look good every day for him and there's no pressure to fuck him anymore. No sadness about this fact, just pure glee that she's off the hook. Mind you they're not even married yet so there you go-this is how most modern women think about marriage. The naturally get bored of fucking you over time, especially if you live together. Also, they tend to be very happy they no longer have to date so to the point of this article, you don't have to worry that much about them actively seeking out other men. They're not horny 24/7 like guys and can go long stretches without sex. Then to come full circle, imagine my coworkers husband to be, no longer getting any intimacy for the rest of his life because he's signed up for a legal monogamous marriage and has no outlet other than jerking off.
N 2020-02-10 16:08:39
All these things are case dependent...no matter how hard a woman tries in a relationship most guys want to fuck other women, even when the woman is sexy, looks good every day, put on a new lingerie etc. Guys get bored. Women do too but they don’t act on it. Also, women biologically can have more sex than men. They don’t have the refractory period, so they can constantly have sex. They are horny and they think about sex all the time ( I am a woman)!
gamblinsam 2020-02-10 18:03:14
I'm a bit surprised as this article seems to be kind of preaching outcome-dependence. Not as in that you are encouraging men to be outcome dependent, but as in you are catering to outcome independence in men, by describing most of your points as essentially, 'don't worry, she probably won't sleep with a lot of guys anyway'. This really should have nothing to do with it should it? Additionally, it seems like your entire point against getting serious with VWY is specifically the fact that they are going to be sleeping around a lot. Why is this a concern for an outcome independent man?
Blackdragon 2020-02-10 19:49:02
I’m a bit surprised as this article seems to be kind of preaching outcome-dependence. Not as in that you are encouraging men to be outcome dependent, but as in you are catering to outcome independence in men, by describing most of your points as essentially, ‘don’t worry, she probably won’t sleep with a lot of guys anyway’. This really should have nothing to do with it should it?This article isn't directed towards the outcome independent Alpha Male 2.0. Instead it's directed at men who are still outcome dependent about this issue and have never tried any sort of non-monogamy before because of it. Thus the language is (unfortunately) tailored for those men.
Additionally, it seems like your entire point against getting serious with VWY is specifically the fact that they are going to be sleeping around a lot. Why is this a concern for an outcome independent man?You didn't read that correctly. Go back and re-read that section and you'll see I'm saying the opposite. You shouldn't get serious with VYW for other reasons (described here) that have nothing to do with non-monogamy, thus whether or not she should be monogamous is non-issue that you shouldn't be worried about.
joelsuf 2020-02-10 21:13:11
Then you’ll whine and cry on my blogs like a little bitch and ask about how to get her back.Don't know why but this made me spit out my water laughing. The timing on some of the lines in your articles is unintentionally hilarious. Reading this makes me feel really good that I never believed that chicks or dudes were ever capable of monogamy. Never understood the whole "won't she get with other dudes?" Objection. It's like "So what if she does? Aren't you trying to get with other chicks? No? Well, you should cuz it makes her like you more." Monogamy is just the stupidest concept to me. How your expectations can be that high for someone and rationalize it as even remotely humane is beyond me. "Have sex with me and me only." Oh yeah, perfectly natural, right. Seems legit.
Sleazy syndrome 2020-02-10 22:33:31
Hello BD I'm just curious ,that, Eventhough older women have high ASD but will they fucked former ex boyfriend alpha ?? I had been reading heartiste posted about five minuted alpha ...he suggested older women will suffered&in loved from "Jerk alpha" then you should date younger women . What's your opinion. 🙂
Incognito 2020-02-11 02:41:43
Men are either socially programmed or biologically wired to feel jealous -- but you can deal with. I had a momentary spasm of it a few weeks ago, when an MLTR was experiencing high level NRE. The first step is not to react to the feelings or express them. Certainly don't dump it on her! A brief withdrawal into your private room, a few Bob Dylan albums, and you should be back on track. Don't go into denial over it, though. If you feel it, you feel it. Acknowledge it and deal with it -- just without involving the woman. At best, its rude. At worst, it gives her power over you. It'll be easier next time.
Federico 2020-02-11 05:04:03
I am a very, very good husband to her, far better than 90% of all other husbands out there.Do you have concrete examples or articles on how to be a good husband?
John 2020-02-11 06:31:12
I'll try once more because you have the ears of lots of dudes our age, and I think you are underplaying the booze factor. I've said, and you've acknowledged, that your status as basically a teetotaler matters when it comes to an Alpha 2.0 life. It's not a matter of long term consistent happiness. You truly underestimate how happy long term alcoholics can be. You can even do cost benefit analysis to show this. When you're addicted to drinking addictive poison, you're happy when you do it. The real problem is a lack of living, because booze fills so much of life. It's a lack of freedom. It leads to absurdities like leaving the swing dancing venue full of fairly hot VYW (I still think you visited an outlier town and not Denver proper) just to drink vodka alone while keeping up the dancing with bimbos on YouTube. My point is that you are right. #4 up there is the big reason why I don't Get Laid, and drinking has absolutely taken the edge off. It sublimates sexual desire. It chills sexual fears. It's one big lie. I hazard to guess, I'm not the only of your followers who has stepped on his own dick mostly by drinking way too much. I also would like to hear some words on the relative benefits of not drinking when it comes to women.
CSR 2020-02-11 06:42:50
That’s ASD. (One type of it.) In many cases it’s Disney too.I don't think so. This goes way beyond the usual SP stuff or "people will see me as a slut". This is a pure, biological, irreversible problem: she's approaching or has reached the Wall and her looks are fading very quickly. Either she reacts now or she ends up alone or worse, with a low profile man.
Sandro 2020-02-11 07:01:44
@BD: I don't believe in monogamy but I also don't believe in OR either. I don't see the point in being in any kind of "boyfriend/husband and girlfriend/wife relationship. The way I see it, nowadays most relationships start as FWB type of relationships anyway until one party wants exclusivity. I have never been in a relationship with women over 28 but I have had sex with multiple women over the age of 33 and most if not all of them weren't single, so I guess older women still like having sex with other men. However they are most likely looking for a husband or just a better provider at that age as well. Now here are some general questions: 1. Why do you think nature makes us men be attracted to younger women especially when we get older? I think it's tough desiring 20 year old girls when you are like 35, 43 or 50. The older I get the more I feel attracted to young women and I can't do anything about it but at the same time I know I can't compete with a fit 24 year old jock so it's a two sided sword. What is the purpose of this? I actually wish I could say I get overall more attracted to older women, the older I get but it's not the case, it's the opposite. I like Milfs sexually but I don't feel overall attracted to them. 2. How do you manage sexual safety in an OR? What if your woman catches STDs? HIV? I mean you can't control whether she uses protection, can you? 3. What if she gets pregnant by another man? Are you willing to provide for another man's kid? 4. I also don't know why I would be in an open marriage at all. What is the purpose of it? As far as I know in your case you already have kids, so that can't be the reason. 5. Would you say women who sleep around have some mental issues they carry with and lose the ability to pair bond as "science" suggests or are you calling bs on this?
Blackdragon 2020-02-11 09:29:57
Eventhough older women have high ASD but will they fucked former ex boyfriend alpha ??It's possible. Depends on the situation and the man, but yes, a woman is a little more likely to fuck an ex who was a jerk Alpha Male 1.0 than an ex who was a beta. Not that you should care.
Do you have concrete examples or articles on how to be a good husband?I have an entire book on that coming out in a few months. I'll probably do videos too. Stay tuned.
I don’t think so. This goes way beyond the usual SP stuff or “people will see me as a slut”.Correct. It's not just that, but that's unquestionably part of it. "People will see me as a slut" is indeed a big factor for women over age 33.
This is a pure, biological, irreversible problem: she’s approaching or has reached the Wall and her looks are fading very quickly. Either she reacts now or she ends up alone or worse, with a low profile man.Yup, that is also true. It's a combination of several factors.
@BD: I don’t believe in monogamy but I also don’t believe in OR either. I don’t see the point in being in any kind of “boyfriend/husband and girlfriend/wife relationship.Perfectly fine. OLTR is not for everyone. Just stick with FBs and an MLTR now and then for the long-term; that's a viable lifestyle model that I wish more men would adopt.
Why do you think nature makes us men be attracted to younger women especially when we get older?You are biologically wired to be attracted to women of peak childbearing age, e.g. women in their late teens / early 20s.
I think it’s tough desiring 20 year old girls when you are like 35, 43 or 50.It's not. It's great. I just had sex with an 19 year-old yesterday and I'm almost 50.
The older I get the more I feel attracted to young women and I can’t do anything about it but at the same time I know I can’t compete with a fit 24 year old jock so it’s a two sided sword. What is the purpose of this?You're whining. Thousands of men much older than you are hooking up with much younger women without any problems. Stop whining like a beta, stop with the excuses, get this book and follow its instructions.
How do you manage sexual safety in an OR?
- Frequent STD blood tests by both parties (if both parties are having side-sex)
- Only have sex with known quantities
What if your woman catches STDs?Then she didn't follow the rules and you need to end the relationship immediately. And you were a absolute fuckin' moron for getting into an OLTR with someone that irresponsible and dishonest.
HIV?2% Rule. Read this.
I mean you can’t control whether she uses protection, can you?No. You have to select a woman who has demonstrated a long track record of honesty and organization and then you'll have to trust her, just like she trusts you. Or else don't have an OLTR.
What if she gets pregnant by another man?2% Rule. I've literally never seen this happen.
Are you willing to provide for another man’s kid?Of course not. I would end the OLTR immediately, then I would ask myself why I was so stupid to get into an OLTR which such a moronic woman in the first place.
I also don’t know why I would be in an open marriage at all. What is the purpose of it?Read this and this. And again, it's not for everyone. I'm not here to "promote" OLTR Marriage, just offer it as an option for certain men. If you don't want to do it, please, for fuck's sake, don't ever do it.
Would you say women who sleep around have some mental issues they carry with and lose the ability to pair bond as “science” suggests or are you calling bs on this?I would say those women need to hit me up because they make fantastic FBs.
johnnybegood 2020-02-11 12:16:30
Yeah jealousy is a natural biological instinct. Does it serve men well? It probably did in the age before birth control and paternity tests. Now it's a bit less useful, but -- still, difficult to completely change your own nature. But yeah ... would I be jealous if a dude had a "bigger dick"? Not really. In fact I feel I'd be quite the opposite. If my girl slept with Brad Pitt or Ryan Gosling, I would probably care far less. She must be a dime piece who has high standards and attracts high calibre men. If my girl slept with a Beta male, disgusting lard@ss, Steve Urkle type? That actually affect me more. Because it makes her seem more desperate, low value, and she'd "screw anyone" -- and people tend to value things that are hard to obtain. I personally get less validation if I 'conquered" the village bicycle. Yeah I know that's offensive but real talk lol. Would you rather screw a girl who has screwed Brad Pitt, or Screech from Saved by the Bell? Exactly.
TheNotAnonGuy 2020-02-11 12:24:03
BD, Two questions for you... (1) What would you do if your live-in OLTR suddenly stopped wanting to have sex with you (or, let's say, only wanted it some absurd low amount like once or twice a year), BUT, the relationship is otherwise perfect, and you two are happy together in every single other way? Do you drop your live-in OLTR because the sex has withered (or she doesn't want it anymore), or do you stay with her because you're happy in every other facet of your life with her, and you're getting "sexually fulfilled" every week with your infinite rotation of FBs? Slightly more extreme question along the same tangent... (2) What would you do if your live-in OLTR suddenly became uncertain of her "live-in" status with you and wanted to move out... but, as we know how it works in this system, wanted to come back to living with you again if she decided she made the "wrong choice" later on? In other words, would you LSNFTE a live-in OLTR and then allow her to return as a live-in OLTR in the future? Or would she be downgraded after moving out, never allowing her to be a live-in OLTR again? (My instinct says that it sets a bad precedent to communicate to a live-in OLTR that she can leave whenever and return whenever to exactly the same state as she left -- it means she would exercise this option more than once if you allow it. But I'm wondering if that's the way you feel about it too...?) Thanks in advance! (EDIT: Tried to 'Edit' my name, but it isn't sticking for whatever reason. Oops)
Blackdragon 2020-02-11 13:10:23
Yeah jealousy is a natural biological instinct. Does it serve men well? It probably did in the age before birth control and paternity tests. Now it’s a bit less usefulYup. The O in OBW is Obsolete. Sexual jealousy served us well hundreds / thousands of years ago. Today it just makes men upset for literally no reason.
If my girl slept with Brad Pitt or Ryan Gosling, I would probably care far less. She must be a dime piece who has high standards and attracts high calibre men. If my girl slept with a Beta male, disgusting lard@ss, Steve Urkle type? That actually affect me more. Because it makes her seem more desperate, low value, and she’d “screw anyone”Interesting. I've been with at least three women who also had sex with famous A-list male celebrities, and I think I thought the same way.
What would you do if your live-in OLTR suddenly stopped wanting to have sex with you (or, let’s say, only wanted it some absurd low amount like once or twice a year), BUT, the relationship is otherwise perfect, and you two are happy together in every single other way?I've been asked that question several times before. You can have an OLTR Marriage where you never have sex with your wife and only have sex with FBs. It can work and I knew a few men like this. So would I do it? If everything else was perfect, then probably. Would it be ideal? No. On that same topic, any man who plans on having a very long-term marriage to a woman (40-50 years or more) needs to plan for the day when she doesn't want to have sex anymore because most women stop having sex completely at some point during their 60s, married or not.
What would you do if your live-in OLTR suddenly became uncertain of her “live-in” status with you and wanted to move out… but, as we know how it works in this system, wanted to come back to living with you again if she decided she made the “wrong choice” later on?I would continue to see her sexually and perhaps non-sexually as well, but if she wanted to move back in I would say no. Why would I want to move back in with a woman who has proven she could just turn around and move out again? Too much chaos. I have better things to do.
In other words, would you LSNFTE a live-in OLTR and then allow her to return as a live-in OLTR in the future?LSNFTEs don't occur with OLTRs, live-in or otherwise. They only occur with MLTRs (often) and FBs (sometimes). The E in LSNFTE means Exclusivity, meaning girlfriend / wife status, which the OLTR already has. If your OLTR ever actually leaves you (and I've never had an OLTR leave me), she will do so for other reasons.
hollywood 2020-02-11 13:56:21
3. Only have sex with known quantitiesCould you elaborate on this one?
Blackdragon 2020-02-11 14:50:36
Could you elaborate on this one?If a couple in an OLTR want to keep STD risks to a minimum, they should only have sex with FBs who are regulars; medium or long term FBs who have been around a while and who they know can be trusted to a degree. Having lots of sex with one night stands, random hookups, short-term people, and/or hookers is allowed in an OLTR, but it's not ideal if STD risks are a concern of one or both partners. (That being said, I've seen OLTRs where the man is a Thrill of the Hunt guy who prefers new women all the time. Whatever works for you. Just be careful.)
John 2020-02-11 18:54:39
It's mathematical wrong to say that monogamy doesn't work, the normal distribution prohibits this statment. About 10% must be able to get it going in some way.Me for example I just don't have the desire for more than one partner because I hate all the things that you have to do in order to attract new partner. I tried 4 at a time, but lost interest in the 3 least attractive ones. Happens every time. Also I have so many damn interests I just don't have enough hours a day to fulfill them where to get time for all those women?
Blackdragon 2020-02-11 20:10:07
It’s mathematical wrong to say that monogamy doesn’t work, the normal distribution prohibits this statment. About 10% must be able to get it going in some way.I'm quite comfortable saying that something with a 90% failure rate doesn't work.
I tried 4 at a time, but lost interest in the 3 least attractive ones. Happens every time.Then keep the hot one and add in one more who is just as hot. Problem solved.
Also I have so many damn interests I just don’t have enough hours a day to fulfill them where to get time for all those women?Read Objection #8 here.
Marty McFly 2020-02-11 22:53:43
Monogamy was a contingency against women's nature. The elites found ways of outwitting it. Now, all you and the rest of the nonmonogamy crowd have done is replace one contingency with another. There is no objective better or worse option when they both are based upon someone else doing what is evolutionarily disadvantageous for them. At this juncture, we are essentially arguing over personal preference, despite what your preference may be regarding long-term consistent happiness. This is the issue with individualism as a dogma. There are some issues that a man simply cannot solve by himself. I'm aware that the Idiocracy we presently live in bars any effort at group activism. But the less sucky scenario out of two sucky ones still sucks.
Ian 2020-02-12 00:37:22
Can we have another picture of your “hair”? I could do with a laugh.
Nick 2020-02-12 01:48:43
I noticed all my feelings of jealousy went away as soon as I stopped doing monogamy. I used to be jealous because it felt like a breach of contract, not because of the sex itself. If there's no agreement to be monogamous in the first place, jealousy goes away. To the guys worried about "what if he's higher value than me?" I used to have this fear too, especially when girls LSNFTE'd me when they got a boyfriend. I followed BD's advice in his "Why you should ignore girls after a break-up" article to a T, sent a non-needy text 4 months later, and lo and behold (against my expectations) I had sex with the girl again. I was a bit sceptical at first, but seeing this stuff work with my own eyes convinced me -- sooner or later, she'll be back. I believe there's something fundamentally low-value in a man who voluntarily cuts off his own balls to be monogamous, and women sense it.
POB 2020-02-12 03:13:38
Why some guys think they need to have a lot of chicks to be in an Open Relationship? The beauty of this model is that it can be adapted to your needs. In the past I had a need for 5-6 chicks at a time, so I did it. Yes, it took a lot of my time, but I didn't care. Now I only need two or three to be satisfied, one serious MLTR and 1-2 FBs, so this is how I do it now. I just adapted the model to my current time constraints and goals and am still very happy.
Sonny 2020-02-12 04:49:09
Hi Caleb, I know you say that that the more attractive the girl is the more likely she is to cheat but it has been my observation both in America and in India that the tendency is the prettier the girl is the less promiscious she's likely to be. Infact in India the easiest women ive had sex with have been overweight and around 30. Generally too heavier / less attractive women are desperate for male attention. The young pretty ones are doable but take a lot more of time and attention / effort. I was not overweight and am generally considered 7 / 10 ( and prolly a bit higher by indian standards ) It might have to do with the fact that in women self esteem and promiscuity should have a strong reverse correlation. That would make sense right , the prettier the girl is the more she has to lose by being slut shamed hence losing on higher quality mates If she's fat and / or ugly , she never had a chance with high SMV guys to begin with so screw it ( no pun intended ) What you probably mean is the prettier she is the more likely she is to replace you if she thinks you aren't alpha enough in the relationship like getting needy etc. Which i can completely buy.
Blackdragon 2020-02-12 07:38:58
At this juncture, we are essentially arguing over personal preference, despite what your preference may be regarding long-term consistent happiness.Incorrect. It was never my preference to be non-monogamous. For most of my life I vastly preferred pair-bonded monogamy just like everyone else. I simply discovered the monogamy wouldn't make me long-term happy, and doesn't make most other people long-term happy either. Therefore, if long-term happiness is the goal, monogamy (unfortunately) can't be part of the system. Also I've said in the past that if here was a reliable, repeatable way to make monogamy actually make the vast majority of humans long-term happy, I would happily endorse it. But there isn't. It really is about happiness, not preference.
the less sucky scenario out of two sucky ones still sucks.Correct. That's why I usually say "less bad" when talking about these options. It also doesn't mean that you just sit on your hands in frustration and don't choose. You choose the least bad option if long-term happiness is important to you.
I noticed all my feelings of jealousy went away as soon as I stopped doing monogamy. I used to be jealous because it felt like a breach of contract, not because of the sex itself. If there’s no agreement to be monogamous in the first place, jealousy goes away.I've seen some other people experience this as well. I've also seen a lot of people, women in particular, become more jealous when they get into a monogamous relationship after being non-mono for a while.
Why some guys think they need to have a lot of chicks to be in an Open Relationship?Frankly, it's just an excuse. That guy above and other men using this excuse just don't want to be nonmonogamous so they throw out a strawman. Every idiot knows you can have just 2 women (one main one and one side one you see sporadically) instead of 5 or 10. It's sad I have to take the time to point these kinds of things out.
I only need two or three to be satisfiedYes, that's all most men need. It's reasonably rare a that man needs more than 2 or 3 women long-term to be happy. I only have three right now. One wife, one main FB, one backup FB in case the main FB is busy who I don't see very often. Been doing that for months, it's great, takes virtually no extra time to manage. There are no excuses.
I know you say that that the more attractive the girl is the more likely she is to cheat but it has been my observation both in America and in India that the tendency is the prettier the girl is the less promiscious she’s likely to be.I'm not talking about promiscuity. I'm talking about cheating.
Sonny 2020-02-12 08:16:39
So do you agree : Fat / ugly girls are easier ? The prettier ones are relatively harder to bed ? Also million dollar question right, Do the very pretty girls have a strong tendency to want a physically attractive guy. To be be clear I am not talking non-physical attractive traits men can have (confidence , outcome independence , game , smoothness , ability to make her feel comfortable)
Mike Hunter 2020-02-12 08:54:51
Would you say women who sleep around have some mental issues they carry with and lose the ability to pair bond as “science” suggests or are you calling bs on this?I'll call bullshit on it. All they're doing is showing a correlation between female promiscuity and the likelihood of divorce. Then claiming the cause is sex. No one has ever proven or even suggested a method of action in which exposure to dick magically changes someone's relationship preferences. The truth of the matter is that a 3rd variable is driving both of the outcomes. That 3rd variable is personality. More specifically: o Disagreeableness which increases peoples willingness to buck social norms. Whether around sexuality or the commitment of marriage. o Openness to new experiences. o Conscientiousness - Obviously less conscientious women are less likely to underestimate the worst case scenario regarding divorce or rampant promiscuity. Finally although it's not a personality trait I'm sure that variation in levels of testosterone plays a large role as well since it drives disagreeableness and sexual appetite. The inverse relationship between increased casual sex by females and unstable relationships doesn't show any causal factor that changes these women because they have sex. It's just revealing immutable and unchangeable personality and hormonal differences that were always there. When those differences interact with the modern social and economic environment what you get is unstable relationships as well as promiscuity from that subset of women.
Sonny 2020-02-12 09:24:26
Mike hunter, What you're essentially saying is that the abnormal personality caused promiscuity not the other way around. You could be right. I don't really care if a girl is promiscuous or not either way but human psychology and the way it plays out in social behavior is darn interesting to me.
CCMidwest 2020-02-12 09:54:33
Have y'all seen this? Is this common? 1) FB gets obsessed and tries to see me more, text a lot (I ignore them mostly), etc 2) Says she wants "more" than just being a FB 3) Claims she's got feelings for me or even says she loves me 4) When I hold the line and don't give her what she wants we have some of the best sex ever...her attraction sky rockets (I know that's how attraction works haha) But then she immediately the next day dumps me and says she now has a boyfriend. Is that typically how a temp next so she can go be monogamous for awhile goes? Or am I fucking something up? I just had that again with a FB and that's like 4 in the last 6 months. (2 of which came back already)
hollywood 2020-02-12 13:19:09
Have y’all seen this? Is this common?Sort of.. FB's aren't always consistent, that's why it's great to build up a roster of them so there's always one returning. My FB's stick around longer than yours it sounds like. But some of the things they do, like fuck other guys and tell you about it, or go get a boyfriend and cut you off, are more of shit tests than anything, especially if she leaves for less than a month. The hope (for her) is that she cuts you off for the boyfriend, you relent and give in to something she was asking, and now she has your balls... so you at least you aren't giving in. But it's also possible you are being too much of a player with your FB's, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but they may look at you as a player type, and one that they can return to whenever they aren't seeing another guy. My FB's often use me like that.. A stopgap for when they aren't with someone. While inconsistent, they are great because I don't have to worry about getting bored with them. They don't stick around long enough to make me bored, yet when they return, its been long enough that it's exciting to be fucking them again. For me there's 3 types of FB's. -Cheater FB's that are currently in some kind of serious relationship with someone else. -Free Spirit FB's that fuck me and several other people and don't give a shit what I think about it nor do they care who I fuck. -Relationship Hunters that only see me in between potential or real monogamous relationships. Sounds like you are getting with the Relationship Hunters and so they are only using you in between relationships. These are the most common, but they should at least stick with you for 3 months or more in my opinion or something you are doing is causing it to end sooner (probably being too much player). The ones that I have that do this, usually are happy with me for a few months and towards the end, they start dating heavy, and eventually cut me off. Then a relationship may ensue between them and the guy, and then anywhere from a month to a year or two later, they hit me back up when they break up with their boyfriend.
Mike Hunter 2020-02-12 13:43:08
Mike hunter, What you’re essentially saying is that the abnormal personality caused promiscuity not the other way around. You could be right.I wouldn't use the word "abnormal" because it suggests that their brain isn't functioning properly. Unlike someone with schizophrenia their brain is functioning fine. It's just that because of their unusual pairing of personality characteristics; and the way those characteristics interact with our current environment, they calculate the costs and benefits of promiscuity differently than the average woman. Female promiscuity used to be much more costly. Both because of the deadly cost of catching an STI. Which is more likely to happen to women due to their anatomy. Also because women are disabled by childbirth. Depending on an unreliable and uncommitted man not to starve could be a death sentence. Modern medicine and the provision of resources to single mothers by the government has solved most of those problems. Who is more genetically successful: o A responsible woman who goes to school, becomes a lawyer, works on her career, and eventually has 1 kid before her eggs dry out. o A traditional woman that marries a successful man in her mid 20's and becomes housewife who has 2 kids. o An irresponsible impoverished slut who has 5 different children by 4 different men. That doesn't work and lives off of welfare and child support. Yes I know an extreme example. But not an unrealistic one. The answer is clear. The current environment selects for personality traits that favor female promiscuity. Since personality is heritable we shouldn't be surprised when female promiscuity emerges at levels never before seen.
I don’t really care if a girl is promiscuous or not either way but human psychology and the way it plays out in social behavior is darn interesting to me.You should check out this podcast then.
CCMidwest 2020-02-12 14:48:43
or go get a boyfriend and cut you off, are more of shit tests than anything, especially if she leaves for less than a monthMakes sense. I take it as a shit test for sure. Easy to be OI about them when I legit don't want a relationship. I'm not even sure there actually is a boyfriend when this happens since they've returned so quickly some times. (Not enough time for them to get over NRE with the guy)
But it’s also possible you are being too much of a player with your FB‘s, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but they may look at you as a player type, and one that they can return to whenever they aren’t seeing another guy.Yep. I get lots of "you're a player" tests too. Not sure how to scale that back. BD says 85% player 15% provider and I'm just not sure what that actually looks like in practice. Gonna have to experiment.
Free Spirit FB‘s that fuck me and several other people and don’t give a shit what I think about it nor do they care who I fuck.Your 3 types makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it's been the relationship hunters that do this. I have one long term FB (8 months) and she is a free spirit. Thanks me often for being non judgmental of her, non needy, and being honest about how we're just FB's and nothing more. Getting new FB's takes a lot of time, so gotta tone down the player a bit and keep em around longer. Thanks dude
Sonny 2020-02-12 22:03:49
Hi Mike Hunter, Do you feel prettier / more attractive girls are less promiscuous ?
Incognito 2020-02-12 22:17:50
I wouldn’t use the word “abnormal” because it suggests that their brain isn’t functioning properly.Not really. It just means "deviating from the normal, usual or typical."
MalkeyMonkey 2020-02-12 23:19:17
I'm a strongly jealous needy guy and hope to do the BD lifestyle one day, so ha ha ha fuck it's gonna be be brutal. I of course dont have as much experience as BD being 24, but I have a weird supicion I'll be fucking young AND older very horny all the time women. I think I calibrated too much for excitement-oriented nymphs So I may have to deal with my partners having sex with other men all the time. Ugh. Dunno what to do Also I suspect the BD model may change as decades go on. Monogamy fuck buddies and poly marriages are becoming more and more mainstream, sex positivity among women is increasing. It may not be relevant till the future but I suspect older women ASD stopping them from sleeping with other guys is gonna be less and less of an absolute fact
Liquorice 2020-02-13 02:30:17
Is it strange for someone to not feel jealousy at all personally from the act itself? It's not that I would get off being put in a corner while the hotwife gets plowed by a BBC (unless said BBC brought a female playmate along for me to enjoy) or whatever the California crowd is into nowadays. The only reasons why felt frustration in the past thinking about women sleeping around would have to do with the social repercussions. For example: 1. If I would not mate-guard her obsessive compulsively, she would throw drama about how I don't care about her at all. 2. Images in my head of navy seals, MMA fighters and other stereotypical physical alpha's in my head that would drone on about "how a real man would not allow this - a real man would provide hard boundaries and punish her if she crosses them - ask for her phone and check her whereabouts to ensure she is being a good girl etc." 3. Figuring out a way to handle running into a cocky side-guy when going out with a MLTR/OLTR who continuously hints on "how much fun they had", "are you really going out with him?" Alpha 2.0 lifestyle answers 1 and 2 pretty nicely - lose her number and practice outcome independence. OI would come a long way with 3 as well, although I can imagine you would have to address the issue at some point. Not necessarily by punching his nose (would not be a good idea anyway if the dude is bigger) but some sort of a comeback. It's not about losing the girl to be honest, but more about how to avoid public humiliation. Maybe it is just something that can't be helped in some cases and to shrug shoulders, suggestions? a I bring this up as in the past, these have been the causes for me to make some very bad decisions, such as cave in to her suggestion to go steady and define the relationship or much worse, get married because "that is what a real man ought to do - sacrifice yourself for the family unit". The Alpha 2.0 mindset feels very natural to me (and is what I operated on - albeit not a very defined or solid version of it). I just could not find long-term success stories. Every bachelor eventually always caves in and "sacrifices his self to do the right thing and settle down - because kids, society, Christianity, etc.). Arguably, all of this could also be a result of not being totally aligned with my mission, hence there is enough space in the mind left to ponder about trivial things like this.
Sonny 2020-02-13 05:23:34
Liqourice , EXACTLY !! If a guy hits on a girl im out with I don't care about losing her. Im much more concerned about losing face socially. If it were upto me id just say : don't hassle us right now , take her number and ask her out later. Even if somebody groped an FB / low - MLTR of mine I would'nt want to intervene because its a very beta / white knight thing to do. Id just threaten to call the police.
Blackdragon 2020-02-13 10:43:21
Have y’all seen this? Is this common? 1) FB gets obsessed and tries to see me more, text a lot (I ignore them mostly), etc 2) Says she wants “more” than just being a FB 3) Claims she’s got feelings for me or even says she loves me 4) When I hold the line and don’t give her what she wants we have some of the best sex ever…her attraction sky rockets (I know that’s how attraction works haha) But then she immediately the next day dumps me and says she now has a boyfriend.Yeah, it happens. However, if it happens to you a lot then I guarantee you are violating some of the FB rules somewhere (seeing her more than once a week, texting conversations often, taking her out, etc). What you're describing above is more common for MLTRs than FBs.
I think I calibrated too much for excitement-oriented nymphs So I may have to deal with my partners having sex with other men all the time. Ugh. Dunno what to doWhat you do is to get fucking started so you can get over that initial hump of jealousy as fast as you can so you can be happy.
Also I suspect the BD model may change as decades go on.Yes. Especially when monogamy becomes literally impossible. Then a little later again when sex robots become commonplace.
Monogamy fuck buddies and poly marriages are becoming more and more mainstream, sex positivity among women is increasing.Yup.
It may not be relevant till the future but I suspect older women ASD stopping them from sleeping with other guys is gonna be less and less of an absolute fact.When viable sex robots become inexpensive for the typical lower-middle-class guy to purchase or rent (even if they have to do it on the black or grey market), high ASD women and provider hunters will be forced to make some very difficult decisions about their current dating models. Right now they do what they do because it works. In a few decades it won't anymore. It's the same with traditional, religious, or right-wing Alpha Male 1.0s when it becomes literally impossible to cheat on women. These guys will be forced into Alpha 2.0 models whether they like it or not (or just fuck robots or hookers for the rest of their lives).
Is it strange for someone to not feel jealousy at all personally from the act itself?Not really. Some guys just don't have jealous personalities.
The only reasons why felt frustration in the past thinking about women sleeping around would have to do with the social repercussions.Outcome independence. You shouldn't care what other people think. I certainly don't.
If I would not mate-guard her obsessive compulsively, she would throw drama about how I don’t care about her at all.If she was an MLTR you would agree with her since she was not your girlfriend and soft next her if she continued. If she was an OLTR it's acceptable to demonstrate that you wouldn't like it if she dated another guy or got feelings for another guy. (You just don't care if she has meaningless condomed sex with some dumbshit beta FB of hers.)
Images in my head of navy seals, MMA fighters and other stereotypical physical alpha’s in my head that would drone on about “how a real man would not allow this – a real man would provide hard boundaries and punish her if she crosses them – ask for her phone and check her whereabouts to ensure she is being a good girl etc.”Societal Programming and high-drama Alpha Male 1.0. Clean that bullshit out of your head. Alpha 1.0s deal with a lot of regular drama because of their relationship models. This isn't compatible with Alpha 2.0. (Also read what I just said about Alpha 1.0s being fucked in a few years because of technology.)
Figuring out a way to handle running into a cocky side-guy when going out with a MLTR/OLTR who continuously hints on “how much fun they had”, “are you really going out with him?”Never hang out with your woman's other FBs or MLTRs (unless you're practicing "true" polyamory).
The Alpha 2.0 mindset feels very natural to me (and is what I operated on – albeit not a very defined or solid version of it). I just could not find long-term success stories.Right here.
Every bachelor eventually always caves in and “sacrifices his self to do the right thing and settle down – because kids, society, Christianity, etc.).Not every bachelor. Just the betas and Alpha 1.0s. But the vast majority, yes. You don't need to be in that group. You have a choice.
CrabRangoon 2020-02-13 12:27:38
@Liquorice "Every bachelor eventually always caves in and “sacrifices his self to do the right thing and settle down – because kids, society, Christianity, etc.)." This is almost entirely a product of societal programming for guys like us. They care too much about what their family, friends, peers, society, etc... thinks and make life altering decisions because of it. Other men pushing you are most likely just jealous of your freedom and lifestyle so always consider the source of the pressure. Of course women hate to see free bachelor men having a good time with or without them. you have to seriously ask yourself, are you going to make big life decisions based on the opinions of others? Do they have to live your life? No-you have to live with those choices, potentially till death. For example, my mom would love for me to marry and give her grandkids but I'm not doing it. Morbid as it sounds, she'll be gone one day and I'll be left with the choices I've made. Side note, older parents, more so mothers, push hard for grandkids so they have purpose again. Many older folks don't know what to do with themselves after retirement and the kids are all gone. They never had a mission and are adrift, looking for their kids to provide them with entertainment and purpose. It's all projection and for typically selfish desires to feel needed again.
CCMidwest 2020-02-14 06:46:36
seeing her more than once a weekI never take them out, and I text to schedule only. I'm a single dad and have the kids every other week. I haven't yet got my shit together with scheduling when I have the kids, so I often see my FB's twice a week, every other week. (4 times a month total) Think that's an issue? I think my biggest issue is I fuck them like MLTR's too. I'm a very passionate guy, I greatly enjoy these gals, and I love woman in general, so I think that sends relationship signals.
Blackdragon 2020-02-14 08:41:11
Side note, older parents, more so mothers, push hard for grandkids so they have purpose again. Many older folks don’t know what to do with themselves after retirement and the kids are all gone. They never had a mission and are adrift, looking for their kids to provide them with entertainment and purpose. It’s all projection and for typically selfish desires to feel needed again.Absolutely correct. I've talked about that before.
I often see my FB‘s twice a week, every other week. (4 times a month total) Think that’s an issue?Yes. That explains a lot of your problems.
I think my biggest issue is I fuck them like MLTR‘s too.That's okay. What you do during sex is mostly irrelevant.
I’m a very passionate guy, I greatly enjoy these gals, and I love woman in general, so I think that sends relationship signals.Yeah I'm quite sure you're sending relationships signals outside of sex.
Sonny 2020-02-14 09:00:29
Caleb, There is a theory about men-women relationships which is basically before sex the woman holds the power , after sex ( what i think you turn " Lock in " ) the balance of power shifts decisively to the man. Its now up to him to keep that power
Al 2020-02-14 09:36:35
"Side note, older parents, more so mothers, push hard for grandkids so they have purpose again." Its not that simple. Go and Read 'The Selfish Gene" by Dawkins. You are a combo of your parent's genes. Your parents genes made them produce you so that the said genes can make it into the next generation. Those genes want to see you reproduce to ensure that they have moved forward with greater chances for surviving and not dying out. So yes. It not just individual selfishness at play but genetic level instincts that ur parents are not even aware of.
Blackdragon 2020-02-14 17:38:44
There is a theory about men-women relationships which is basically before sex the woman holds the power , after sex ( what i think you turn ” Lock in ” ) the balance of power shifts decisively to the man.This was true for most of human history before the 1960s when men were more patriarchal and Alpha. Today it's no longer true; most men are betas and even most Alpha 1.0s eventually get oneitis. Today in most relationships the woman has the power before sex and after sex (though not under and Alpha 2.0 dating model of course).
Your parents genes made them produce you so that the said genes can make it into the next generation. Those genes want to see you reproduce to ensure that they have moved forward with greater chances for surviving and not dying out.This is also true, yes.
jabberhoo 2020-02-14 21:21:31
Hi BD, Thanks for the wisdom. But I have a question. You said that 50% of over 33 women in OLTR are not going to have sex outside the current relationship or say monogamous( 50% is a huge number though). Also they can have sex whenever they want under OR, and can satisfy some of their disney needs from Beta orbitors, then why would they eventually leaves AM2.0, even they loves AM2.0? They have best of all the worlds, then why do they get bored?
Blackdragon 2020-02-15 10:07:02
You said that 50% of over 33 women in OLTR are not going to have sex outside the current relationshipThat's not what I said. I said 50% of all women of all ages in an MLTR or OLTR won't ever bother fucking other men. If instead you limit that to women only in OLTRs and who are also over age 33, that percentage goes way up. I don't know what the exact number is, but it's much more than 50%. More like 60-80% percent.
Also they can have sex whenever they want under OR, and can satisfy some of their disney needs from Beta orbitors, then why would they eventually leaves AM2.0, even they loves AM2.0? They have best of all the worlds, then why do they get bored?You're confusing OLTR with MLTR. Two very different things. In an OLTR she's already getting all of her Disney (or at least the vast majority of it) and she's also receiving emotional exclusivity, so she doesn't need to seek these things from outside of the relationship (and if she does, that means you did something wrong). That's why women in OLTRs don't really do LSNFTE. I didn't say they never leave (they're still women; women always leave), I'm just saying it's extremely unlikely she'll leave you specifically for another guy or beta. In an MLTR it's the exact opposite. She's not getting any Disney at all, nor exclusivity, and she desperately wants these things (and the older she is the more she wants them). So yes, she's very likely going to eventually LSNFTE you, likely for a beta, before she comes back to you again. Yes, your MLTR can have sex with other men and even date other men, but eventually when she gets if wiff of a slobbering beta male who will give her monogamy, kiss her ass, spend piles of money on her, buy her fancy dinners, put "In A Relationship" with her on his Facebook page, that's going to be irresistible to her (because you're not giving her those things) and she's going to let her irrationality take over and she's going to fall for it (LSNFTE). At that time, she's not going to logically say "I can get Disney from this beta and passion/excitement from this Alpha, perfect!" She may say that later after she dumps you, by cheating on her beta with you (shit, that happens all the time), but not while she's in an MLTR with you. Women don't process these kinds of things with logic. They instead follow their feelings and deal with the chaos later.
jabberhoo 2020-02-15 12:51:37
Sexual monogamy is not in the cards for young, hot women no matter what kind of relationship you have with them. Accept it, or never have sex with any women this young. Also I said 50% of all women of all ages in an MLTR or OLTR won’t ever bother fucking other men.This is what you said above BD. I dont want to sound argumentative and nitpicker, but this doesnt adds up mathematically. Also, in another post, you have mentioned that cheating by women has increased by 40% and that data was quoted few years ago on this blog. By this time it must have surpassed 60%. My point is, that I am not afraid that women might have sex with other guys while in any relationship they are currently in, but the percentages that you have quoted shows that 60 or more % of women are monogamous, while I think other way around.
Blackdragon 2020-02-15 12:52:22
Sexual monogamy is not in the cards for young, hot women no matter what kind of relationship you have with them. Accept it, or never have sex with any women this young. This is what you said above BD.Correct. That's what I said. That wasn't what you quoted in your first comment.
this doesnt adds up mathematically
- Very young, very hot girls are likely going to fuck other guys no matter what you do.
- Older women are less likely to fuck other men (but they can).
- OLTRs are less likely to fuck other men (but they can).
- If you take an average across the board for all OLTRs and MLTRs of all ages and all physical appearances, the rough average is about 50% or so.
Also, in another post, you have mentioned that cheating by women has increased by 40% and that data was quoted few years ago on this blog. By this time it must have surpassed 60%Correct. The topic here isn't cheating. It's nonmonogamous relationships. Two different things.
Alex 2020-02-17 23:46:16
One thing I noticed is this. I started in my 10s (teens) with the Disney fantasy, of having the highschool sweetheart, and bullshit. I turned down so many hot girls cause they weren't virgins. Reading this. I want you young guys if you read this to understand. Once I was 16, I didn't think I could replace the girl I had, and a girl that was 18 wanted something special with me. She was hot, and I told her I think she is hot, and would just want to fuck her. I didn't do this because I was smart, I did this, because I was mad, and careless. She agreed. Best sex, girl turned onto doing porn to pay for her college. Thought crossed my mind, there is a dude wanting to be with her, disney way. It's same the disney I wanted with the girl that "broke my heart", isnt it? I ended up picking up girls due to my natural ways of being me. I get turned down soon as i speak words of just sex, nothing less. However, if I keep my mouth closed and have fun, they sleep with me. I ended up hitting 30. Let me tell you. I love open relationships for few reasons. Maybe black dragon and other blogs don't explain this but I will. You read, and read how if you don't respond to texts, and all this shit. Well, when you are telling a girl she can fuck who she wants you dont care, as a long as you fuck who you want, majority of time they will wonder who yo are fucking, and literally a lot of them will tell dudes they got a guy, and can fuck who they want, because who know who he is fucking, and these dudes will either be turned off, or turn into superman, and only few know how to play the game, which is like 2%..so chances are she wont fuck anyone. The best thing a girl that lost her V Card to me told me was "I don't care what you do, as long as you come back home to me, I will wait".. THIS is why it works.. best part, is you're honest. This is why it's important that none of them know each other. Let them imagine... Now as far as older women, I LOVE THEM. They always cared for me, have their shit together. Fuck good, and don't expect nothing from me but to fuck them good, have a drink, and talk about shit that has nothing to do with "us"..Most of the older ones have their eye on this older guy, believe it or not to "grasp of what should be" which never will, cause she is too old, and he cant imagine losing everything to fuck her, and most younger dudes ignore older women. However, I want to share something with you readers. A WOMAN WILL FUCK IF SHE WANTS SOMEONE THAT WANTS TO FUCK HER RATHER IT'S AT WORK, IN A CAR, RATHER YOU KNOW ABOUT IT OR NOT, and then...she will BE A SWEET INNOCENT GIRL AGAIN...WHICH WOULD NEVER DO "THAT". Understand this men, choose a woman for your child if you wish one, a caring woman for the child. but enjoy your life. Anyone disagree, please let me know why.
Mhic 2020-02-19 13:47:16
Monogamy "worked" in societies that deployed maximum social, cultural, and legal, coercion to make it "work". This in itself tells that monogamy doesn't work.