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What Men Don’t Understand About Women’s “The Wall”
Today we’re going to talk about a concept known as “The Wall.” It’s the idea that women become unattractive and/or unworthy for sex, dating, and/or a serious relationship as soon as they hit around age 30.
-By Caleb Jones
Most of you are probably familiar with this, but for those of you who aren’t, it’s a concept that comes from the Red Pill/Manosphere world, and it’s talked about a lot, but it’s not always called “The Wall.” Sometimes men refer to this as “women passing their expiration date,” as well as other variations.
The concept behind it is this: Once a woman reaches the age of 30—and there’s no consensus as to the exact age this happens—she instantly becomes disgusting and unfuckable. She becomes “old,” her "ovaries have dried up," and so on. She's not as hot as the younger women anymore. She's ridden the "cock carousel" too long. And on and on. So why would you ever marry her? Why would you ever date a woman over the age of 30? Why would you ever have sex with her? The thinking is that you should never, ever be with a woman who has passed The Wall. You’ve probably heard this a lot.
Now, do I agree that as women get older, they tend to get less attractive? Of course I agree with that. I have sex with 19-year-olds on a regular basis because I’m Alpha 2.0 and non-monogamous. But if you believe a woman hits The Wall as soon as she hits 30 (or whatever), you really haven’t thought this through in terms of how it’s going to reflect in your life. Here at Alpha Male 2.0, we focus on actionable items you can use to optimize your life, so if this really is something you believe, you’re on the hook to explain how you’re going to integrate that into your life.
The Long-Term Plan
In other words, what exactly is your long-term plan if you believe this strongly? I’ve asked people in the Manosphere this and I’ve never gotten an answer. Most guys who subscribe to this concept tend to be more right-wing, traditionally minded guys who believe in monogamy, marriage for life, having kids, and all that. So let’s say you marry a 23-year-old woman, you have two kids with her, and your objective is to be married for life. What happens when she gets to be 30, 32 years old and hits The Wall? If you marry for life, that means at some point, that young, hot wife you married is going to hit The Wall, right? Then what?
But I’m getting ahead of myself. Let’s talk about this for a minute: If you want to settle down long term, are you going to marry a 19- or 20-year-old? Do you have any idea what the divorce rates look like when you marry someone that young? Marrying a woman that young is the dumbest thing in the universe. If you live in the Western world and you marry a woman that young, I can guarantee you’re going to get divorced.
So what is your plan here? Are you going to marry a 20-year-old, keep her for eight or nine years, divorce her just before she hits The Wall, and marry another 20-year-old? Does that sound like a fun life, getting divorced over and over every time your wife approaches The Wall? Or are you going to stay married to her but stop having sex and just cheat on her?
What is your plan here?
I thought you thought marriage is for life and divorce is bad. You’re essentially proving my point: If you’re going to marry a woman with the intention of cheating on her, you’re admitting that non-monogamy is the only way to go, which is what I teach—except I don’t cheat on women. I do it in an honest way where they know what I’m doing.
Let’s Hear It
For you guys who strongly believe in the concept of The Wall, I want you to put in the comments below exactly what your long-term plan is for the next 40+ years. Maybe you can even educate me on this master plan you seem to have mapped out.
Based on my experience when I’ve posed this question online, I have a feeling I already know what your answer will be:
The first possibility is that you’ll dodge the question and not really offer any kind of answer. You’ll make some kind of ad hominem attack against me, or you’ll just reiterate that women in their 30s are gross or make a joke about dried-up ovaries or being past their expiration dates. And if you believe strongly in the concept of The Wall but don’t want to answer the actual question, what does that tell you?
Another possibility is some kind of guy-Disney answer. You’re going to tell me your plan is to marry a virgin Christian woman who is 18 years old, and as soon as she hits The Wall, you’re going to stop having sex with her. You'll cheat on her, and sure, you’ll probably get caught at some point, but she’s going to stay with you anyway because you’re a strong Alpha Male and a good provider.
As I’ve said many times, if that system worked, you should be able to point me toward millions of men who have done it. I don’t see any outside of super-wealthy billionaires, and even those are high-drama relationships.
The third possible answer I might get is that you just plan on getting divorced every 10 years like Tom Cruise.
A Known Quantity
I teach long-term, consistent happiness here at Alpha Male 2.0, and the system I just mentioned above is the opposite of that. Getting divorced every 10 years or so for the next 40 or 50 years isn’t long-term happiness. I would shoot myself in the fucking face if I had to live a lifestyle like that. I know a few guys who have done that; they’re not happy, well-adjusted guys.
When I made the decision to have an OLTR marriage, I purposefully went out of my way to settle down with a woman who was past The Wall. She wasn’t much past The Wall; the age I had in mind was 35, and she was actually 34. I didn’t want some young girl in her early or mid-twenties because she’s not done developing. She’s not a fully-formed adult yet.
So the woman you date when she’s 23 will be a radically different person by the time she’s 27. The odds are overwhelming that she’ll divorce your ass or cause problems that will lead to divorce. I didn’t want that; I wanted to settle down with a known quantity, not some unknown thing who will be a completely different person in a few years.
Will it work? Well, my marriage is better than I thought it would be. We’ve been together about six years and married almost three, so I’ll be able to tell you in about another seven years whether this has worked. So far, we’re not having any problems, and I’m non-monogamous, so I can have sex with her and other women whenever I want. It’s a pretty good deal.
But the point is, I sat down and made sure I could integrate my philosophies into my life on a logistical basis so it was a doable model. I translated my philosophies into real plans that I executed in a way that actually worked. And most of you who are screaming about The Wall have not done this. You’ve assumed a philosophy, but you haven’t actually thought through how you’re going to make it work in real life.
And if I’m wrong, you should be able to leave a comment below and let me know about your high-probability-for-success plan for following the concept of The Wall for the next 40 or 50 years of your life. I can’t wait to read your answers, and as I said, I suspect I already know what most of them will be. Food for thought.
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Wired For Success 2020-10-14 15:40:49
In Japan, this is often known as "Christmas Cake" or "New Year's Noodle". Also, as long as you can see yourself fucking a woman you find attractive, age is just a number so long as she's legal of course.
CSR 2020-10-14 17:10:09
For you guys who strongly believe in the concept of The Wall, I want you to put in the comments below exactly what your long-term plan is for the next 40+ years. Maybe you can even educate me on this master plan you seem to have mapped out.Well, what I can do is explain to you and the crowd what The Wall really is and what it means. As you know, men and women age very differently. Generally speaking, men tend to age "linearly". Little by little we grow older but (again, usually) we don't experience sudden physical appearance drops*. Women age linearly until they reach more or less their mid thirties. Why? Because that's when a woman's fertility begins to fade quickly. Their skin get clearly worse, the fat tends to accumulate more and worse than before, etc. Literally, mother nature is showing us that she's about to become infertile. As we all know, women decide when sex is going to happen which means they have a time slot of about 20 years (approx from age ~15 to ~35) when the world is their oyster. They can fuck or even date the highest level males they can manage (depending on her looks, obviously). For instance, a more or less good looking, non stupid 25 year old woman is at her absolute prime in the dating marketplace. When she's 35, let alone 40, the quality of the men she can date is going to be much lower because attractive men at her age slot tend to date younger women and/or they are already "taken". Not only her biological clock is about to run out of batteries, she knows she is no match against a girl 10 years younger. Even 5 years make a world of difference. The definition of The Wall is this: ========== Either she settles with a lesser quality man or she has to date much older men. But for the first time in her life, she has to make compromises because she's running out of time. It's the end of her golden era and it will never go back no matter what she does. ========== That's it. That's the Wall. ALL women know this, realize this and ultimately hit the wall. And I mean all of them. They can delay it a few years if they are 9s or 10s but that's about it. Having said that: No one is saying men should never ever date women over the age of 30-35, that's ridiculous especially if the relationship is non monogamous. But you must know that depending on your age and your level (alpha, beta, attractive or not, status, how much money you got, your game, etc.) at least a good portion of her interest in you won't be attraction but the fact that she is seeing you as her last chance before it's too late. You need to know her very well and decide if she's still worth it, especially if you are going to have an emotionally involved relationship with her (very high end MLTR, OLTR). * Genetics and how much did you take care of yourself are very important but you get the point.
Sandro 2020-10-14 18:02:18
For me the wall is simple: Sexually a woman will always have options even when she is in her 60s and even if she is really out of shape since there all kinds of men with fetishes. Me personally, I have always been into Milfs sexually, no matter whether they are 40 or 57. From a romantic point of view though the wall is real to me. I am 39 now and the oldest woman I was emotionally into was 28 and that was 10 years ago. I believe the older a man gets the more he is into younger women and I am not talking just about sex.
Duke 2020-10-14 19:03:00
Okay, thanks for the definition CSR for those that don't know it. But can you tell us what your mating plan is? You never know, maybe you can help someone.
Blackdragon 2020-10-14 20:40:47
No one is saying men should never ever date women over the age of 30-35Completely incorrect. Go spend some real time lurking around manosphere / red pill forums, blogs, YouTube vids, etc. You will see all kinds of comments from guys referring to very attractive women over 30ish saying things like "I would never hook up with that bitch, too old," "Disgusting. Past her expiration date." "Why would anyone want to date her? She's hit the wall / her ovaries are full of dust / women age like milk," and on and on. There are some more level-headed men in the red pill community who have no problem fucking/dating/marrying women over 30 and that's fine, but there are a lot of guys in that world who really are saying (or heavily implying) what I said in the article. It's odd that so many men are now trying to deny this now that I've pointed it out (some are doing this over in the YouTube comments as well). And if your answer to that is "Well, yeah, there are a lot of those guys, but those guys are idiots," then fine. I want those guys to answer the question I asked in the video/article above. If you really think it's perfectly fine to fuck/date/marry women over 30 then my quesiton isn't really directed at you or men like you.
SF 2020-10-14 21:30:18
Thanks for bringing up this important topic. I agree that changing wives every 10 years is misery, but on the other hand, how do you stay attracted to your 40, 50, 60... year old OLTR wife when you're banging 18-25 year old chicks all the time? I'm really worried I won't find women my age attractive as I get older, in particular now that I know I can meet much younger women. Is it ok to have a sexless OLTR marriage (for companionship, etc) with sex from FBs? Do you (or others) have insights into this? As an aside, I wonder if there's a difference between hunter man and pleasure of sex men. It seems to me that the former care more about beauty and novelty (sex with the same woman gets boring) whereas the latter don't have that issue as much. Is there some truth to that, and if so, any advice for hunter man?
Greg 2020-10-15 01:58:39
I don't go as far as saying women hit a wall when they turn 30. For some it happens about 5-10 years later. The argument may work if a guy is either a multimillionaire or a billionaire, if he's a 10 in good looks terms, or if he's in both categories, but most guys aren't. The reality is most guys hit a wall as well as they get older, in letting themselves go with their looks, health, fitness and nutrition. I do find with many women who are 35 and older, most let themselves go (as many guys also do), in that many are hideous bush pigs, they're either too skinny for my tastes from their genetics, they're too overweight and/or they haven't aged well, or don't have big enough tits. Plus women aged 35 and over who are hot, are either married with kids, or if they're not and they're single, their ASD is sky high and/or they're picky bitches. Trying to meet women aged 35 and over, who don't have sky high ASD, who aren't bush pigs and share similar values with regards to nutrition, health and fitness is what I struggle with, hence why I prefer younger chicks, who have their own pros and cons themselves.
El Barto 2020-10-15 03:23:17
Completely incorrect. Go spend some real time lurking around manosphere / red pill forums, blogs, YouTube vids, etc. You will see all kinds of comments from guys referring to very attractive women over 30ish saying things like “I would never hook up with that bitch, too old,” “Disgusting. Past her expiration date.” “Why would anyone want to date her? She’s hit the wall / her ovaries are full of dust / women age like milk,” and on and on.It's precisely this dogmatic approach that's of putting to me. As a 43 year old man I find both young women and women over the age of 30-35 attractive (if they take care of themselves). Why would I stay away from attractive women over the age of 30-35 simply because of a very strict theory called 'the wall'? And yes, women do age faster than men on average. But I know and meet a lot of attractive, cute older women. That's why I like the 'Alpha Male 2.0' lifestyle. It focuses on reason and doing things that make you happy. And dating and sleeping with both attractive younger and older women makes me happy.
Redbaron 2020-10-15 03:57:58
what exactly is your long-term plan if you believe this strongly?My plan is to stay single while banging hot young women. Once I hit my 30s and my sex drive begins to decline, I will shift my main focus from women to other matters during that time such as staying physically fit and healthy, maintaining and expanding the wealth I have accumulated by then, flag planting, and working on my personal projects. Those will eat up so much of my time, money, and energy that I will have none left to devote to a wife and kids. I will still fuck hot young women, but less frequently than I am today due to declining sex drive. I don’t plan on getting married because by the time most people in my age range will get married the cost of marriage (I.e. things like the wedding ceremony) will be much higher than they are today and I don’t want to spend that kind of money. Also I have no need for a relationship with a woman; I strictly view women as physical entities (only useful for sex and cuddling). The way I see it in terms of “hitting the Wall”, women once they hit around 30-35 start to develop wrinkly faces and there is also a noticeable change in facial structure. As a guy who loves getting blowjobs (even more than vaginal sex) that is a massive turnoff for me. The woman’s facial appearance is a big deal for me and therefore I tend to be attracted to the faces of women 18-23. 25-29 year old women have okay faces and once they hit 30-35 its bleh for majority of women. Older than that, no way in hell for any woman.
Blackdragon 2020-10-15 09:33:09
how do you stay attracted to your 40, 50, 60… year old OLTR wife when you’re banging 18-25 year old chicks all the time?Sexually attracted, you might not eventually, and that's fine (not optimal, but fine). You should remain emotionally attracted though. Never, ever, ever settle down with a woman just because of how she looks. That's fucking stupid. She's a woman. Her looks will fade. If that's the main reason you like her you'll just get a divorce eventually.
I’m really worried I won’t find women my age attractive as I get older, in particular now that I know I can meet much younger women.That never happened to me. I fucked a cute, trim 55 year-old women years ago while I was in the midst of having sex with 18 year-olds and I had a great time with her. Saw her several times in fact.
Is it ok to have a sexless OLTR marriage (for companionship, etc) with sex from FBs? Do you (or others) have insights into this?I've answered that question many times and the answer is yes. It's okay provided everything else in the marriage is going well. Not ideal/optional but perfectly okay. I've seen marriages like this work.
As an aside, I wonder if there’s a difference between hunter man and pleasure of sex men. It seems to me that the former care more about beauty and novelty (sex with the same woman gets boring) whereas the latter don’t have that issue as much. Is there some truth to that, and if so, any advice for hunter man?Not sure about that. Maybe.
The reality is most guys hit a wall as well as they get older, in letting themselves go with their looks, health, fitness and nutrition.Correct. It's not something men think about or worry about though (unlike women).
Plus women aged 35 and over who are hot, are either married with kids, or if they’re not and they’re single, their ASD is sky high and/or they’re picky bitches.Yes, that's the complaint I have about them as well. Not relevant to this topic.
I don’t plan on getting marriedHow about move in with a woman, which is functionally the same thing? "I will literally never move in with a woman for the rest of my life" is the answer I'm starting to see. Here's the problem: 1. The vast, vast majority of men aren't going to end up doing this. As I've explained many times, it's easy for men in their 20s or early 30s to say they're "never getting married." Bullshit; odds are sky high you will eventually move in with a woman when you are older. 2. Most of the red pill men who bitch about the wall are the same ones who believe in marriage / cohabitation / having kids and so forth, so "never move in with a woman ever" or "never have kids ever" isn't one of their options.
Redbaron 2020-10-15 18:05:26
How about move in with a woman, which is functionally the same thing?Don't want to - I've already seen what happens to my childhood friends (we're all now in our mid 20s) who got monogamous girlfriends and moved in with them, despite me warning them numerous times that it was a dumb idea to do so and showing them your material. They thought I was crazy and are now progressively spending less time with me now that they have their girlfriends running their lives (and their minds). I've been single my entire life and enjoy it; I have freedom and money that my friends with girlfriends and their parents with wives don't.
“I will literally never move in with a woman for the rest of my life” is the answer I’m starting to see. Here’s the problem: 1. The vast, vast majority of men aren’t going to end up doing this. As I’ve explained many times, it’s easy for men in their 20s or early 30s to say they’re “never getting married.” Bullshit; odds are sky high you will eventually move in with a woman when you are older.One thing that can potentially put a corkscrew into that trend is technology. By the time I'm 35-40 (10-15 years from now), we should have realistic sex robots (or close to it) that can at least carry a basic conversation. If a female robot can emulate the good parts a human woman (hot sex and affectionate cuddles) and not have any of the bad parts (risk of divorce, constant talking, always buying dumb useless shit) then I could just "marry" the robot instead. Granted I will still have sex with human women in the form of hookers. And another big issue here is that the United States is expected to collapse within that timeframe. So I my plan is to allocate time, energy, and money into moving to Southeast Asia to take advantage of the changing world order and to maintain peace of mind (I can't say with any certainty how bad the collapse of the USA will be and I would rather not play Russian roulette with my money or life when I'm in my 30s-40s). That will be a much more important affair in my 30s-40s as opposed to getting married raising a family when I'm older.
2. Most of the red pill men who bitch about the wall are the same ones who believe in marriage / cohabitation / having kids and so forth, so “never move in with a woman ever” or “never have kids ever” isn’t one of their options.Those guys are probably clinging on to some sort of traditional upbringing their parents beat into their heads as children or something. I personally don't want any of those three things and never have. I find children to be noisy, expensive, and annoying. Raising them also takes a LOT of effort and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Sure they're cute and adorable for like the first three years, but after that they turn into a nightmare. I am personally a lazy guy, and marriage and raising a family are too much work for me.
Blackdragon 2020-10-15 18:43:34
Don’t want toYeah. You're in your mid-20s. Let's see what happens with that opinion by the time you're my age.
Jermod Callugian 2020-10-16 06:07:16
Comment deleted for violation of Rule Number One. (And that was your 2nd warning, so goodbye.)
AlphaOmega 2020-10-16 06:54:55
constant talking, always buying dumb useless shitmany women I had werent that way and if she talks its your job to shut her up by telling her to stop talking and give you a bj instead like a real alpha. I also dont care if she spends all her money on useless shit since finances are separates.
AlphaOmega 2020-10-16 07:07:03
Personally I have never heard about guys saying they would never date women over 30/35 based on age alone. My feeling is the guys who would say such stuff are virgins or early 20s guys but if an average 30 something would hit on them they would date her and shower her with gifts. Of course there are no answers to your questions because those guys have zero woman experience / are way too young anyway. what is relevant is the dramatic reduction in hot women on the market at that age group and the to me ironic change in behaviour - women seem to combat the dramatic decrease in desirability by being more difficult. To me the point of dating older woman is that it should be more easy and smooth and not the other way around, otherwise I go for early 20s if I want diffucult who are way more attractive sexually both in body and personality. Sometimes older women are very hot or become hotter as older. Id happily date someone whos 40 and looks like kathryn winnick at 40 for example. anyway what does happen is the switch in personality and attitude sometimes around late 20s or early 30s thats extremely unattractive. Its usually when the woman decides shes husband hunting and that she starts to think its good to be difficult. Usually such womem leave me after a few dates on their own and constantly go to new dates never satisfied as they never try to build a connection. I love lecturing such women.
hollywood 2020-10-16 09:33:20
I'm late 30's, and I have an fb who is 48. She is about as attractive as a woman can be at 48. Even still, I haven't visited her in 2 months. The younger women I have in my rotation are just hotter. This 48 year old is even very kinky and good in bed, but I still just pass her up for the younger hotter ones. I only say she's still in my rotation because she hits me up and I keep telling her I'll stop by some time, and I plan to, but I keep passing her up for the hotter ones. Oh well.
PrepZ 2020-10-16 10:47:33
The only wall that really exists is the one a man builds in his own mind.
Blackdragon 2020-10-16 12:26:10
Personally I have never heard about guys saying they would never date women over 30/35 based on age alone.Read my first comment in this thread.
what is relevant is the dramatic reduction in hot women on the market at that age group and the to me ironic change in behaviour – women seem to combat the dramatic decrease in desirability by being more difficult.Exactly correct and I've discussed that many, many, many times. Irrelevant to my point or my question.
Sometimes older women are very hot or become hotter as older.Most don't, but yes, some do. The 35 year-old Carmen Electra was far hotter than the 25 year-old Carmen Electra. The early 40s version of Nicole Kidman was way hotter (in my opinion) than the Nicole Kidman in her 20s (who looked really plain to me). There are few more of those women I could name, but to be fair, these women are the exceptions to the rule. (Fun Fact: Nicole Kidman takes human growth hormone.)
I love lecturing such women.You shouldn't care.
E3d2 2020-10-17 02:16:22
Most don’t, but yes, some do. The 35 year-old Carmen Electra was far hotter than the 25 year-old Carmen Electra. The early 40s version of Nicole Kidman was way hotter (in my opinion) than the Nicole Kidman in her 20s (who looked really plain to me). There are few more of those women I could name, but to be fair, these women are the exceptions to the rule. (Fun Fact: Nicole Kidman takes human growth hormone.)Caleb, I guess you just answered your own question. We're all looking for exceptional women, this is "exceptional" community of people that is having exceptional/non-ordinary lifestyle. In a perfect unfolding of life woman I'm looking will be sexually attractive at least until age of 50. And I personally know decent number of sporty women who fit that criteria. When she hits 50 I'll be in 60s and more focused on deeper, more meaningful things than pleasures like sex, and that women can be my partner in crime in these things. Having sex instead of twice a week I'll be doing it probably once or twice a month, whether with my LTR, FB or ideally with both of them haha....
Blackdragon 2020-10-17 15:31:00
Caleb, I guess you just answered your own question.No, stating some women look better when they get a little older doesn't answer my question. Even those women will eventually be physically less attractive at some point in your future marriage. My question is: what then? I know what my answer is (keep fucking her anyway and keep fucking women on the side forever). I want to know what "The Wall" men's answer is.
Having sex instead of twice a week I’ll be doing it probably once or twice a month, whether with my LTR, FB or ideally with both of them haha….That is an answer that makes sense: non-monogamy. Again, though, most men who worship this wall concept would never do that. So the question still stands.
Incognito 2020-10-17 20:29:28
I don't think this question matters that much. The whole Wall thing sounds like something that someone in their twenties would say. At that age, I think I even remember saying I was going to commit suicide at the age of 30, because obviously there was no point going on living as a decrepit old man. Haha. The great thing about getting older is that a larger proportion of the world's women look attractive to me. Nothing will ever replace hot young women, but I also see the joy of smart, older, high-achieving women in good shape. If you want to have a conversation with a woman after you've had sex with her -- and I realize that may not be a priority for a young guy -- I'd actually prefer the latter, in most cases. At the moment I'm down to two regulars, one in her twenties, the other in her early forties. I actually want to hang out and chat with the latter.
Stephen 2020-10-17 21:54:28
This article was surprising to me. I thought wall meant menopause, about mid 50s. To hear that it is only 30, suggests it comes from dumb 19 YOs who know nothing, but love to brag. Most likely they have been rejected, never get laid, and cover their hurt by lashing out. In short, pitiful beta guys. Any woman under 40 looks sexy, so long as she doesn't get fat. Many over 50 are okay too. The manosphere has some good advice about attraction. Don't be needy. Don't be outcome dependent. Don't have oneitis. Do have at least 2 women so you can remain strong under pressure. But the manosphere is utterly useless for relationship management. The idea that there are absolutes is terrible. Live the way you want. Not according to some strangers on the internet.
AlphaOmega 2020-10-18 00:49:40
I don’t think this question matters that much. The whole Wall thing sounds like something that someone in their twenties would say. At that age, I think I even remember saying I was going to commit suicide at the age of 30, because obviously there was no point going on living as a decrepit old man. Haha.yeah esp eaerly twenties, they have no idea that sometimes people in 30s look the same. I love pranking women in early 20s who think 30 = ewww old guy by telling them im 24 (im way over 30) and they date me no problem and never question that im 24. Its hilarious.
C Lo 2020-10-18 23:31:41
Yeah. You’re in your mid-20s. Let’s see what happens with that opinion by the time you’re my age.That's what everyone told me when I was his age about having children. Sure, I got married but I never had any kids because I never wanted any. But I never changed my mind. I'm not even going to judge another man for his decisions, but I think that being married (or living with a woman) is one of the Obsolete Biological Wiring things that men do that screws them six ways to Tuesday. When I was monogamously married it made total sense, why would you want to do it any other way. Since I got divorced I tried to live with a woman a couple of times and it ended in disaster because I changed. I'm no longer willing to share my (extremely spartan) space for the same reason I'm not willing to get TMM again because there's nothing in it for me to give up control of that part of my life. There is a ton of downside. After 20 years of cohabitation I am of the opinion it - at best - is overrated. At worst it's dangerous. I might be odd in that sense. I knew at 12 what I wanted but I didn't know how to get it. I appreciate your writings very much because they focused me on drilling into who I was and what I wanted. Or more importantly, what I didn't want. One of those things is to never live with another person ever again! Redbarron looks to be pretty set on what he wants, but one never knows.
C Lo 2020-10-18 23:37:48
Any woman under 40 looks sexy, so long as she doesn’t get fat. Many over 50 are okay too.Concur. The problem with the "Wall at 35" or women over 33 in general is they change, and act like women over 33. BD doesn't address this issue directly in discussing women over 33, but my experience is they get downright mean - and it gets worse as they approach menopause where all Hell breaks loose. After that they then calm down, kinda. Anyway, IMO that's why women over 33 are always worried about getting left for a younger woman. They know it's a threat, but they misidentify the threat - they think it's because they are cuter but the reality is they are nicer.
Aloofus 2020-10-19 08:32:44
The problem with the “Wall at 35” or women over 33 in general is they change, and act like women over 33. BD doesn’t address this issue directly in discussing women over 33, but my experience is they get downright mean – and it gets worse as they approach menopause where all Hell breaks loose. After that they then calm down, kinda. Anyway, IMO that’s why women over 33 are always worried about getting left for a younger woman. They know it’s a threat, but they misidentify the threat – they think it’s because they are cuter but the reality is they are nicer.Women over 32 are one of the areas that I've never really followed here. I never had the same experience with them that BD talks about. If anything I've had plenty be down with casual. One of my current FBs is 42, and probably one of the best FBs I've had since starting this lifestyle. Though I think a lot of TRP concepts are wrong as shit, the wall conceptually is correct. Not that it's some magical threshold where a woman can't find a man, but where her desirability tanks in short order. An undesirable woman probably still has an easier time than an undesirable man. When I'm hunting for new FBs with OLD I see a pretty huge amount of morbidly obese 18-25 girls. When I was that age it happened, but seemed much less frequent. It just so happens that as we age it gets harder to not "let yourself go". So the percentage of "hot" people drops every decade or so. If I had to pull a number out of my ass I'd say less than 25% of women I come across at 35+ are still "pretty attractive". Once you add in crazy, available,etc it becomes less.
C Lo 2020-10-19 23:58:30
Though I think a lot of TRP concepts are wrong as shit, the wall conceptually is correct. Not that it’s some magical threshold where a woman can’t find a man, but where her desirability tanks in short order.You'd be surprised. There's three thirsty bros out there for even the most undesirable chick.
An undesirable woman probably still has an easier time thanFixed that for you. You make a good point, but that switchover is way later than you think. If anything, a woman hits whatever version of the wall you tend to recogize and gets pickier even though her options go down because most women aren't actually into younger guys (most, not all). As all women do from 33-50.
an undesirableany man.
Stephen 2020-10-20 14:28:28
in discussing women over 33, but my experience is they get downright meanI'm not seeing an increase. There were plenty of mean women when I was younger. I do see more ASD. It makes sense because young women are naive and easily manipulated by sleazy guys. They get older and wiser, just like we do. They get a divorce or 2 under their belts and become jaded. It just takes a longer comfort period. BTW, if a woman is not nice I politely call them on it and walk away. Often they will go out of their way to be friendly next time. Beta gets you disrespect. Alpha creates attraction.
AlphaOmega 2020-10-25 01:58:37
The main thing about the so called wall is the age attractiveness discrepancy. most women always a guy closer to their age and most men always want women somewhere between 20 and 35. this means the woman has a window of several years when there is an overlap to get a guy and get settled with him after which she needs to go for much much older or reduce her standards a lot as has been mentioned. the wall is therefore perceived only by relatively young guys because much much older guys will happily date 40year old women since these women are still say 20+ younger than they are. Those guys who talk about the wall will probably shift their idea of the age at which it happens in 10-30 years. Thus they can always make it work with someone much younger
Lovergirl 2020-10-26 19:19:54
I always find this “wall” talk baffling. I see it on the internet but never in real life. I’m 44. I still get hit on just as much as when I was 18-23 and I’m theoretically way past this “wall”. I’m not some super gorgeous woman either, just slightly above average. It seems like mostly a white guy thing too. I’ve never heard a black or Hispanic man talk like this. But white guys still try to talk to me too (and I am white). It also doesn’t make any logical sense (and men claim to be so logical). If you’re only attracted to super young women, what do you expect to do with your life after you turn 50? Keep that attitude and it will be really hard to have sex at all. Even the vast majority of super rich, famous people date someone past “the wall” as they get older. The ones who don’t are few and far between. Its nonsense too, that women have a harder time finding quality men as they get older. It’s actually the opposite. When we are young we are usually too dumb to know how to pick the good ones. It takes women years to learn how to weed out the losers. Im in a relationship now that is ten times better than anything I ever found when I was younger. He’s been with lots and lots of women but doesn’t want that lifestyle anymore (he’s almost 50). He says he thinks I’m beautiful and even likes me better without makeup and he runs around with super famous, gorgeous people all the time due to his work. (I even have a pic of him with Nicole Kidman, mentioned above, from last year). He dated a much younger woman once, which his family gave him hell over. But he ended up dumping her because of her immaturity. People eventually do need something more than just looks if they are going for long term.
Blackdragon 2020-10-27 01:37:22
I still get hit on just as much as when I was 18-23 and I’m theoretically way past this “wall”.Most guys will fuck women of any age. The wall is more about (I think) marrying a woman, settling down with a woman, having babies with a woman, getting a serious girlfriend, etc.
It seems like mostly a white guy thing too. I’ve never heard a black or Hispanic man talk like this.I agree.
It also doesn’t make any logical sense (and men claim to be so logical). If you’re only attracted to super young women, what do you expect to do with your life after you turn 50? Keep that attitude and it will be really hard to have sex at all.No, I'm going to be having sex with much younger women after I'm 50 with no problem. After I'm 60 too. My question for these wall guys is, for example, what happens when the hot 25 year-old you married turns 35? Then what?
Its nonsense too, that women have a harder time finding quality men as they get older.Incorrect. I've never heard a woman under age 26 or so that she can't find a good man... but I hear women over 35 bitch about that All. The. Time.
He dated a much younger woman once, which his family gave him hell over. But he ended up dumping her because of her immaturity.Fine, but he needs to keep fucking some younger girls on the side occasionally in addition to just you. Not date them, fuck them.
People eventually do need something more than just looks if they are going for long term.Correct.
Lovergirl 2020-10-27 06:37:19
No, I’m going to be having sex with much younger women after I’m 50 with no problem. After I’m 60 too. Those women, who, according to you, can get any man they want, would have to have some pretty low standards to be sleeping with a guy over 60. Just saying. I don’t know any 25 yr old women that would bang a 60 yr old. Fine, but he needs to keep fucking some younger girls on the side occasionally in addition to just you. Not date them, fuck them. He doesn’t seem interested in that. He wants a monogamous relationship, so that’s what we have. He says he would kill another man that slept with me. We have both done the swingers thing in the past but are both over it. He is in a lot of situations where he could sleep with other women. I don’t think he will. He says he just wants one woman, that we all have the same body parts. Sex is good with us but there is more of a connection than that and we are both happy just being together. We’ve sown our wild oats already.
Blackdragon 2020-10-27 09:34:48
I don’t know any 25 yr old women that would bang a 60 yr old.For money they would. You're forgetting sugar daddy game. I've met many in that category.
He doesn’t seem interested in that. He wants a monogamous relationship, so that’s what we have.Oh god Lovergirl, really? How many times do we have to have the same conversation over and over again about that? Seriously, how many times do you want to keep running into that brick wall? (A lot, apparently.)