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Dating Single Mothers
-By Caleb Jones
Today I'm not going to focus on the social or political aspects of single mothers. I've discussed that before already. I am also not going to talk about the damage single mothers cause themselves nor the delusions some women use to defend single mothers. I've discussed those topics to death.
Instead, today I will discuss the practical aspects and techniques regarding dating single mothers, including their pros and cons as serious lovers and/or casual sexual partners. Many of you may choose to completely screen out single mothers altogether. Totally fine. I don't do that, namely because I don't screen, but mostly because more than 50% of unmarried women out there in the world already have children, and many of these women are as hot and desirable as you could want. But again, if you choose to eschew single mothers altogether go right ahead...this article won't really apply to you.
Provider Hunter Status
The first thing most men worry about is that single mothers are more likely to be provider hunters. I can tell you from vast personal experience this is rarely the case. It's usually age and personality that determines provider hunter status, not motherhood.
There are plenty of super hot mothers between the ages of 18 and 33 who are not looking for a provider in any sense of the word. Over 33, there are indeed many provider hunters, but that's because they're over 33, not because they have children. (I have run into plenty over-33 provider hunters who did not have any kids. Again, the issue is age, not motherhood status.)
So if you find a single mother on your radar and she's under the age of 33, don't worry about her looking for some man to marry ASAP to help her raise her kids. This is usually not the case. (Her own mother and the government welfare state are her "husband"...she doesn't need you.)
Now we're getting into something that really can be a problem with single mothers, and that's logistics. Scheduling dates and meets with single mothers is often extremely difficult. It's even harder if she doesn't have access to a car. Most single mothers lack the funds to hire babysitters whenever they want. Even worse, most single mothers have this attitude of "I don't trust anyone except my mom to watch my kids". (Even if her mother is a complete loser.)
This all means you are often limited to whenever these women can get their moms to watch their kids for them...which may not be very often. Add to that the single mother's job or school, and you have some truly interesting scheduling challenges.
Here are several ways I have alleviated this problem in the past:
- Do the driving. That means you're picking her up, bringing her back to your place, having funky funky time, then driving her back home. (Frankly, there are times I have to do this with women who don't have any kids also, particularly younger women or poorer women.)
- Meet up during the daytime if you can. That's when the kids are in school. Even if they're not in school, it's often easier for these women to get family members to watch the kiddies during the daytime. This often works better for younger single mothers (under 25) who don't work or work during the evenings.
- Meet up with her later in the evening, at her place, after the kids have gone to bed. I've done a lot of this in the past, particularly with women over 30 who really don't want to go "out". It works very well. Often the woman has already had a glass of wine or two by the time you've arrived (being a single mother is massively stressful so single mothers over the age of about 28 love wine). I'm amazed I've never woken up any kids while doing this...but so far so good.
- Worst case scenario, pay $15 or so for babysitting. I would NOT make a habit of doing this, for obvious reasons, but I do admit I've done it once or twice in unusual circumstances. Sometimes spending 15 bucks to block off the entire evening with a super hot woman you really like is worth it. (Again, emphasis on the word "sometimes". For christ sake, don't be a beta.)
Some guys worry about dating women who've already had children because of sexual reasons. They think they'll run into all kinds of loose vaginas and bodies covered in stretch marks. While I admit I have run into this occasionally, I can tell you from my experience this is usually not the case, especially if you stick with younger women (but even if you don't).
A few random examples...
1. When I was 36 I was messing around with an 18 year-old who had had one child, and she indeed had lots of stretch marks on her lower stomach. However, the rest of her body was 100% 18-year-old-perfect, including being tight as a drum, if you know what I'm saying. So did a few little stretch marks I could barely ever see bother me? Nope.
2. One of the tightest women I ever had sex with was a 40 year-old who had five children. I'm not kidding. It was fantastic.
3. I have been with numerous single mothers who had bodies that, while naked and having sex in full light, you could not tell that an entire baby had ever passed through them. I'm quite serious about this. I mean numerous...not just one or two.
I could go on, but unless you're extremely picky, this body issue with single mothers really is no big deal.
It should go without saying that if you start dating a single mother, you should avoid all contact with her baby daddy, assuming he's still in the picture. Ideally, he's not in the picture. One of the stipulations when I got married years ago was that my son's biological dad could not be in her life at all. (And he wasn't.)
Spending any time whatsoever with her ex, in any context whatsoever, is going to equal drama. I'm shocked I even have to say such a thing, but some of you guys don't quite get that.
I would also give serious pause to pursuing a serious relationship (high-end MLTR or OLTR) with any woman who still has baby daddy as a regular presence in her life outside of a very quick occasional text to schedule dropoffs and pickups with the kids. Any more contact than that, and the possibility for drama and problems is too great. (Note I'm talking about her life here, not her kids' lives; he can still be around the kids, just not her.)
Of course if you're talking about an FB or low-end MLTR, then none of this matters; go right ahead.
The whole kid thing brings up many questions. Should you see her kids? Spend time with them? Hang out with them? Ignore them? Avoid them and make sure you never meet them? Should you act like their dad, or their friend? Or something else? Oh, what to do?
First, look to your own personality. I love kids. I think kids are awesome. The older my own kids get, the more I miss having little kids. So I love spending time with kids, regardless of the context. If you hate kids or find kids annoying, well, then that means you should probably avoid a woman's kids as much as humanly possible.
Regardless of my love of children, my goal is a drama-free life, so my general rule is to avoid a woman's children completely unless...
A) She's been in my life at least five or six months without any drama, and I know exactly how the woman fits into my life.
B) I know for 100% that she's a pure FB-only and will never be anything more.
If she's an FB, then I don't care what her kids think of me. I usually just act like her "mom's friend", which is exactly what I am. How much access an FB wants to give me to her children is her choice. They're her kids, not mine, so any problems that result are her problem.
If a woman has been in my life for a few months, and I consider her a high-end MLTR or OLTR candidate, then I will allow myself to interact with her kids just as much as her and I feel is appropriate. Often I will follow her lead. Again, they're her kids. I already have my own.
(At some point I should probably make a post about how I handle MY kids within my dating lifestyle. I'm not sure how many of you have kids but it might be a worthwhile thing to talk about.)
Drama and Stress
Other than logistics, the other downside of dating single mothers is that as I mentioned above, being a single mother is a horribly stressful, painful existence. Just imagine having constant, never-ending financial problems, going to a shitty job you hate, then after exhausted from work coming home to one or two (or more!) kids who are hyper as shit because there is no consistent father around.
Trust me, it's not fun, and these women have to work very hard at being happy. Often these women will be stressed-out, snippy, tired, or downright bitchy and upset.
All the usual open/poly relationship rules apply. Instantly soft next her ass if she gives you any drama for any reason. Hard next or downgrade her to infrequent-FB if she becomes a consistent problem. The fact she chose to make babies with an irresponsible moron before she (or he) could afford them is her fault, not your fault. Don't ever let a woman throw drama at you because of her problems with her kids.
At the same time, don't discount her just because she has kids. If she's flexible, low-drama, low-jealousy, and fun to be with, there should be no reason whatsoever to not have or pursue a serious relationship with her. (Two of the three women I've actually fallen in love with were single mothers.)
As always, take action with her based on her actions, not her motherhood status.
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Sparks 2014-04-26 11:12:12
Wot no comments? I will admit in the past year I have been approached by quite a few single moms and have turned them all down. Mostly due to the 'provider hunter' and 'her body' reasons listed above. Maybe I should reconsider. I am guilty of being far too picky in the past and am consciously making an effort to categorise rather than screen women as BD advises.
lazy guy 2014-04-26 13:20:47
I've had some great times with single moms. They don't want all my free time, and (usually) they are not hoping to have a baby with me, and they are less likely (than childless women) to feel their life has a big void which they hope to fill by having a very consuming, demanding relationship with a man (a somewhat parasitical dynamic perhaps). They realize their SMV is lower than a childless woman's SMV, so their expectations/demands may be more reasonable & realistic than they would be if she was childless (i.e., she'll settle for a loser like me, ha ha). As for logistics, my experience is that if she if DTF, she will find a way to create the opportunity, without much help from me. However... if she had more than one child, my observation is, chances are, her body (especially breasts) has distinctly lost more shape & firmness etc. than a mom who had only one child; distinctly less attractive. So I view single moms in two categories: 1. she had one baby 2. she had more than one baby.
Alejandro 2014-04-26 13:25:18
"They realize their SMV is lower than a childless woman’s SMV, so their expectations/demands may be more reasonable & realistic than they would be if she was childless" Is this really true? I have seen some single moms or even ugly women who seem to have some huge delusions about their SMV. Or maybe is the fact that single moms who still look decent know that there are still plenty of beta, desperate guys who would be willing to be her provider in exchange for some sex.
Blackdragon 2014-04-27 00:52:29
They don’t want all my free timeGood point. I didn't mention that aspect but it's true.
However… if she had more than one child, my observation is, chances are, her body (especially breasts) has distinctly lost more shape & firmness etc. than a mom who had only one child; distinctly less attractive. So I view single moms in two categories: 1. she had one baby 2. she had more than one baby.I had to think about that one. I immediately thought about women I've been with, including women well over 30, who were single mothers and had great breasts...but sure enough, these were women who only had one child. So you might be onto something. However, the women I've been with who had more than 2 kids who had sub-optimal breasts tended to be women over 30, or at least over 27-28 or so. I have been with women who had 2 or more kids who were well under age 25 whose breasts were just fine. So age may also be a factor. You definitely made me think though.
lazy guy 2014-04-27 09:04:48
Hmm, good to know a woman with 2 or more kids might still have a hot bod if she's really young. It's amazing how well some women can age if they never had more than one child. I'm thinking of one I knew, 47, perfect body (the 'Barbie doll' figure, great skin, etc.), loved sex, etc... she never had a baby ... Another factor one might consider is if the woman had kids with more than one man. Some guys might say that's always a very bad sign, she's trouble, stay away ... I don't know ... I'm curious about other men's experience/observations on this issue... BD? I dated one of those ... good for awhile... hot ...
Blackdragon 2014-04-27 16:54:10
Another factor one might consider is if the woman had kids with more than one man. Some guys might say that’s always a very bad sign, she’s trouble, stay away … I don’t know … I’m curious about other men’s experience/observations on this issue… BD?That's only an issue if you screen, and/or if you're looking for that Perfect Disney Woman. Neither of those apply to me, so the number of fathers involved is irrelevant. If she's attractive and low-drama, I proceed. But if you're concerned, just keep those women to FB status. Problem solved.
Wes 2014-04-28 09:54:28
I would really benefit from a post on having kids of your own. I'm 26 and have an 8 year old daughter and I'm not sure how girls feel about that. I have her every other weekend, but I've had a couple girls say they don't want to be like a step mom, even though i wouldn't be like that at all.
Blackdragon 2014-04-28 13:30:30
Okay...I'll write one.
Bo 2014-04-28 15:24:06
If you're into Latina single mothers, chances are they have huge extended families (especially in southwestern states) where they have multiple baby sitting options on call at any time.
Ms. Cheevious 2014-08-23 11:26:35
Your article is interesting and has some good points, but as a single mom, I must call you out on a few - 1) that women looking for a Provider - or "Provider Hunters" as you call them - tend to be over 30. That, I can unequivocally say is HOGWASH. BAHAHAHA! Maybe you've been around some twenty-something hot mommies who are pretty adept at pulling the wool over your eyes, but the reality is (and I do say this from experience) that as they get older (and the kids do as well), women start to see that not only don't they *need* a man to provide for them or their kids (they've already been doing all the hard work and put in the bulk of the financial investment), but perhaps they don't WANT a man in the provider position. They've been running things for a while now, so why bring someone else in and give him that kind of authority that's implied and implicit with being a provider? Wanting and hunting for a provider is a personality trait, my friend, NOT an age thing. If a woman wants a provider she has been looking for this since her parents read Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty to her (and she dreamed of one day being rescued by prince charming too)... and it doesn't go away magically when she turns 18, 22, or whatever, only to return when she's a 30-something!! 2) You also make some really inaccurate and stereotypical assumptions about *being* a single mom, which I can only assume comes from the lens you saw the single mom's existence through... But the fact you say "these women have to work very hard at being happy" tells me you've simply met the wrong women! I'll admit, many women still live with the idealized notion of what "dating" or a "relationship" is supposed to look like, but being happy as a single mother often has very little to do with the crazy hectic schedule and the fact there is no dad around. And who says we all hate our jobs? I know a few single mothers who are KICKING ASS and taking names in their careers. They have help at home (live-in nannies and so on) and haven't forgotten they are single women in addition to mothers. This is what I try to promote in women, but it's some of the points in your post that create inaccurate perceptions that make meeting people (worth their salt) rather difficult... because they're automatically put off by the label. Most of my single mom friend and I have always been happy women, no matter the difficult juggling act being a single mom can be. And finally - (I'm sure there are more, but these stuck out) 3) What universe do you live in, where a kids biological dad *and* mom do not attend a graduation, take photos with the kid (yes, sometimes together, because the kids thrive better if the ex's can get along, and it takes a bigger man to be with a single mom and be good with that)?? Saying the woman can have NO CONTACT aside from the occasional text about picking up or dropping off kids is short-sighted and completely unrealistic. Actually kind of stupid. Sorry - but I was fortunate that my ex moved back to our home state, so he wasn't in the picture (because unbelievably, this stupid perception was around before this blog) (though I could have used his picking up and dropping the kids off, believe me)... But when our son graduated high school we were all there. We didn't take photos together because my ex is driven by the emotions of his new wife, but these are milestone things no one can exclude a biological parent from participating in... College graduations, weddings... they're all a possibility, and you should be ready for them and try to facilitate some kind of friendly interaction with the ex before you get there, otherwise you'll make those supposedly happy events in your child's lives an uncomfortable, chilling and sad experience.
Ms. Cheevious 2014-08-23 11:29:27
Oh yeah - and I had two kids 11 years apart, so I guess that makes me a disaster in the body department --- but I'd say most people don't think so. It's called PILATES or YOGA or caring about how you LOOK! Or BOOB JOB... Just sayin'
Blackdragon 2014-08-23 19:55:48
as they get older (and the kids do as well), women start to see that not only don’t they *need* a man to provide for them or their kids (they’ve already been doing all the hard work and put in the bulk of the financial investment), but perhaps they don’t WANT a man in the provider position. They’ve been running things for a while now, so why bring someone else in and give him that kind of authority that’s implied and implicit with being a provider?Because they won't give him a position of authority; they'll just take his money and providership without that. Over-33 women seeking a provider are (generally) wanting a pussy-man to hand over the money without bossing the women around. And they always eventually find one, since these men are so common. Read this regarding dominant women.
I know a few single mothers who are KICKING ASS and taking names in their careers. They have help at home (live-in nannies and so on) and haven’t forgotten they are single women in addition to mothers.Those are wealthy single mothers. I'm not talking about those. They're rare in the Western world and the exception to the rule.
Saying the woman can have NO CONTACT aside from the occasional text about picking up or dropping off kids is short-sighted and completely unrealistic.I didn't say it was realistic. I said it was a virtual guarantee of ex-drama. Which it is. And posing for pictures once a year or something like that would be okay.
BH 2015-07-01 12:09:17
Just chiming in to say I'd be very interested in a follow up article on how to handle BEING a single father and dating. You mentioned some tips in your last email newsletter. I have three 8yr olds that live with me. (Long story) It makes logistics...challenging. I personally want to keep my children and the girls I date 100% separate.
Blackdragon 2015-07-05 15:02:15
Just chiming in to say I’d be very interested in a follow up article on how to handle BEING a single father and dating.It's on the topic list. Coming soon.
cherrydoll 2015-09-08 15:12:44
I'm a 26 year old single mom and I have to disagree. I DO NOT want a man to provide for me or my child. If anything I am at a point in my life where I am pickier now than when I was childless and I hold myself to a much higher esteem now that I am a mother than before when I didn't see a big deal in dating a loser. I pull the "mom card" all the time when I want these losers who only want sex to get away. Its like fly repellent. My body also got curvier. So I dunno what kind of single mothers your dating but my SMV certainly went up. My single girlfriends give it up like there's no tomorrow to these lowlife losers and I'm like swerve left and right. Buh bye loser. My single mom status is like a loser/douche repellent.
Minister 2016-08-19 06:28:35
So, what are the advantages exactly of dating a single mother? The fact that half of your lays are single mother must not be random.
Blackdragon 2016-08-19 10:30:19
what are the advantages exactly of dating a single mother?There is none. I've been with a lot of them because there are so many of them and are thus freely available. My point in the article was that they're not really any worse than childless women.
ashley 2016-09-08 08:29:03
I appreciate this very much. I practically want to cry but thanks for saying all this shit. I was totally expecting bashing not this though.
Minister 2016-09-12 00:55:45
Single mothers are awesome. More often than not, they are hornier and more fun than ordinary women. In my experience, though they are at the same time a total pain in the ass, when it comes to setting a meet. While you plan to seeing them once a week, as per fuckbuddie rules, you end up meeting twice a month and you should be happy for it. They can even cancel twice in a row. It doesn't matter if their kids are teenagers.. they are busy with them all the time. They are frustrating as hell.
goon_ice 2017-03-03 03:45:59
you mean you don't have your own kid? your own genes passed down to another? how do you guys date without having kids of your own but instead take care of other people's kids, it's not yours. go get yours. or you'll go extinct, the enemies are at the gate
Blackdragon 2017-03-03 13:27:20
you mean you don’t have your own kid?Who cares?
you’ll go extinctWho cares? You won't when you're dead. Society is society's problem, not yours.
Karolina Nowicka 2017-04-15 14:31:20
Dear Sir, As a Polish woman who is amazed how much bashing and contempt single mothers receive, I am glad to read something positive about them. Personally I have a lot of sympathy for those women. Especially if they are teenagers. I can't believe in XXI century in US pregnant girls are still treated like mindless sluts. Even if they are irresponsible and immature, they can be good or very good mothers - and that's only what counts.
TheMaleBrain 2019-02-04 13:44:45
Most of my demographic is Single Moms. They have several advantages: 1. They fit time slots I, as a divorced father, have my daughters twice a week and every other weekend. This means that I have regular days in which I have time for dating and having sex. If she is divorced, than that time slot arrangement works the same way. It means there are no surprises, and you can have regular sex nights, once you have your plates spinning. 2. Which means they make great MLTR/FB material By time slotting them (and they will approve since they need their time to balance kids, work and you as their sexual provider) you come to a “Win-Win” situation which, from my experience, can be maintained for months and even years. 3. Enthusiasm This is anecdotal evidence, from my experience only: Most single moms I was with showed an enthusiasm in bed which tops their younger rivals in the sexual market. They know that if they have a good man, they need to give everything in bed. This sometimes create funny stories, in which I had to curb their enthusiasm, otherwise the blowjob might end in a hospital. 4. Less Flaking This might sound odd, since they have kids and have to balance their own life. Single moms flake less. This is my experience. They may flake, but will give you a heads-up. We understand that the girl may not show up, but we expect courtesy of informing us. Single moms do that. 5. Easy to please After you banged her a few months, and you want to use the “provider vibe” (to be less of an "asshole"), I use small gifts (up to 10$) which are originals. Example – branded nail polish. Bought it when I was in France for 3 Euro a piece. I gave it to harem members for occasions and the response was uncanny. Their eyes just lit. Single moms, unlike their younger rivals, rarely get freebies. This means that with minimal investment you get a lot of credit. 6. Availability Our moderator stated repeatedly - "It's a numbers game". So why not play with the hand you have been dealt? For men in their 30s and above that (I’m in my 40s), it is all around us. The growing number of divorced moms is, as stated above, an epidemic. If you are looking for harem, plates or mLTR this is a great demographic to exploit. Let’s face it – if it is around you, why not just reach out and pick it (pun intended)? This is taken from an article I have not published on ROK, due to it not passing editorial.
Thinkpad 2019-04-22 10:46:53
It's a shame your article didn't make it through, TheMaleBrain. But, to be honest, guys at ROK have a stark anti-single mom stance that's very hard to challenge. I recently started dating a single mom and she's one of the best girls I've had. Sweet, loving, drama-free, caring. I was making a mistake by following "redpill" guys' advice and avoiding them completely.