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Why You Can’t Get Hot Girls
-By Caleb Jones
The four students were the standard high school clichés. There was the buff, dumb, football player jock, the dorky nerd, the hot, bitchy, rich, blonde cheerleader and the nice, quiet, brunette girl next door.
Once they entered the fantasy world, they took on the usual fantasy roles. The dumb jock became a barbarian. The nerd became a wizard. The girl next door became a cleric. The bitchy hot cheerleader became...well, now this is where things became interesting and where things suddenly took a hard right, away from the formula and into something you weren’t expecting.
Early in the story, the bitchy hot cheerleader was captured by the main villain (a typical dark lord character) and was easily corrupted by him. She became a dark sorceress, who enjoyed summoning demons using human sacrifice, as well as murdering people in sadistic ways. Eventually, the dark lord was defeated and she became the main villain of the entire story.
At the time, I thought nothing of it other than an interesting plot twist. Looking back, I can’t help but think about how that comic was written by two nerds who had probably never had sex with any woman beyond a 6 in their entire lives. What were they really saying about unattainable, hot, blonde girls? Maybe nothing. Or maybe everything.
During the 80s, a new type of movie arose that has stuck with the culture since then; the teen comedy. Back then, you had movies like Pretty in Pink and Sixteen Candles. Later, you had movies like She’s All That, Mean Girls, Easy A, and many others.
In most of these movies, not all but most, the heroine is a cute but plain girl next door type. She usually has dark hair, a flat chest or close to it, and dresses simply. She is always intelligent, clever, honest, fun, pure, and down to earth. The villain in these movies is always a super hot, popular, rich blonde girl with big boobs and a sexy, sultry body. This villain girl is always vain, arrogant, manipulative, abusive and bitchy.
This is quintessential Societal Programming, folks. For almost 40 years now, our culture has been subtly training young people that hot girls, particularly blonde ones, are distant, angry, entitled bitches.
When Elliot Rodger did the unspeakable a few years back, I noticed that he wasn’t angry at women, he was angry at hot women. That’s a significant difference most people didn’t pick up on. Being angry at women is one thing; you see that all over the manosphere and it’s pretty obvious. But, when you’re angry, or at least secretly resentful specifically at hot women, it’s much more insidious, because you’re often not consciously aware of it. Rodger was furious at these hot girls, thinking they were entitled, pampered, arrogant bitches.
Well, shit. Where do you think he got that idea?
Of course his own experiences probably played a role. Yet to a large degree it was hardcore Societal Programming.
(SP is not why he killed those people; that was because he was all kinds of mentally ill and on anti-psychotics. I’m only talking here about the source and target of his anger, not his violent acts.)
When I got into the game so many years ago, right after my divorce, as a beta male who was 10 years out of practice when it came to dating, the first few women I had sex with were very hot. Many guys complain that they can get girls, but not hot girls. For some reason, I never had that problem. Even back when I was doing all kinds of things wrong, I didn’t get laid very much, but when I did they were very attractive.
I’ve often thought about why this wasn’t a problem for me and why it’s a problem for so many other men, including men who are much better-looking than me, and/or skinnier than me, and/or have (or spend) more money than me, and/or are in the same age ranges as they women they’re pursuing.
My initial guess was that it was because I got into the game at age 35, already an older guy with some past successes, and the increased confidence and outcome independence that older men tend to have. Compared to the typical 22 or 24 year-old dude getting started from scratch, it made sense that I could get to the hotter girls a little more quickly. Maybe.
I think that’s part of it, but I don’t think that’s all of it. I think the rest is explained by the lack of this hidden resentment towards hot girls.
I used to suffer from all kinds of false Societal Programming, just like everyone else. (Using the techniques I talk about in my book, I later got rid of at least 90% of it.) Yet, for some reason, this anti-hot-girl stuff never worked on me. Back when I was younger and watched these teen comedies, I always thought that the lead character was unattractive and uninteresting, and I always fell in love with the bitchy, hot blonde girl. Every time.
Back then, I fantasized about growing up and marrying a woman like Haviland Morris in Sixteen Candles, or Rachel McAdams in Mean Girls and all the rest of those bitchy hot blondes. I loved those women! They were the women I wanted. I had no negative feelings for these women, or that type of women, whatsoever.
As a young virgin in high school, I looked at the super hot, unattainable, big-boobed blonde cheerleader types as something I cared about and wanted, not as something to be pissed off or resentful about. Most of my buddies at the time bitched and complained about these women. Not me. I was excited about these girls. My friends were upset at them, and often disparaged them whenever the subject came up.
So it stands to reason that later in life, I was able to get from zero to the hot women pretty fast. I had no negative subconscious feelings towards them interfering with my frame and actions.
That leads me to the point of this article. A lot of you guys are able to get women, but not hot women. I think this is because a lot of you guys, consciously or subconsciously, are actually angry and/or resentful towards these hot girls. Consciously, you want to have sex with them. Subconsciously, you think these women are bitches from hell who don’t deserve happiness.
The (often subconscious) thought process goes something like this:
See that plain-looking, brown haired girl over there with round face and the flat chest who’s about a 5? She’s a nice girl. I can go have sex with her. I can be with her. She’s nice. She’s cool. But that hot blonde 9 over there with the big tits and the low cut shirt that gives me an insta-boner? She’s a stuck-up bitch. Look at her, walking around, thinking she’s all that. What a cunt. When I jerk off later, I’m going to fantasize about her, but someone needs to slap that bitch.
A lot of you guys are thinking this kind of poison. It helps explain why you have so much trouble getting with hot girls.
It’s the same exact problem with all these left-wing millennial Bernie Sanders types who have been raised to hate rich people. If you hate rich people, or at least secretly resent rich people, then you will never be rich no matter how hard you work. Moreover, I can tell you with certainly that you’ll have financial problems for the rest of your life.
I always wanted to be rich when I was younger, so one of the first business skills I had to learn was to not hate rich people, but instead respect them and consider them an immensely valuable source of information (as long as they didn’t get their money by inheriting it). I went from a shy 18 year-old with no money and no business skills who could barely afford to feed himself to a six-figure income by the time I was 27, so it worked. I was able to take action to make a lot of money without my subconscious sabotaging me.
You can never attain that which you secretly resent. That goes for money and hot babes.
And remember, it’s possible that you may resent hot women and not even realize it consciously. It could be a subconscious thing that you’re not aware of unless you take a deep look into your mind.
If you’re having repeated problems getting to sex or relationships with women you consider really hot, I suggest you take a long, hard look into your brain about your attitudes towards these types of women. I think you might be surprised at what you find.
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Felix 2016-04-04 05:32:41
Thank god I don't have that problem. I've always hung around hot girls. Just didn't know how to get into their panties but never had that. I had no idea that people even thought that way. Same thing with money. I've never had any issues with people who had money. They or someone earned the money. It's theirs to enjoy. If you want some, go earn it. Same with girls, although with girls, you don't have to earn it, you just have to know how to behave.
Shanghai Bobby 2016-04-04 05:44:28
Hiya BD, I half agree with your post. Whilst some men are bitter towards hot girls, but secretly want to fuck them, it is indeed a fact that the hotter ones are much bitchier than the less hot ones. A good example I will use is Australia/New Zealand/UK (places I've been to/fucked chicks in). I can't comment about USA, maybe they're nicer. I will also compare these girls to ones in East Europe such as Czech Rep. Hungary and other West European countries like Germany and Switzerland (all places I've been + fucked chicks in). Due to the ratio of hot girls vs. not hot girls in the first 3 countries, there is a super high sense of entitlement with hot girls from these countries. Compare that to East Europe where most girls are like 8's when you put them in the first 3 countries, you'll notice that they're much more lovely, less entitled and more fun. Another interesting dynamic I notice is that hot East European girls who would otherwise be nice in their countries, arrive in the first 3 countries, and eventually get bitchy/entitled too - the competition is nowhere near as high. This dynamic is similar to how many people become rich and then turn into assholes. 90% of the girls I date are foreign because they are simply just much nicer, as pretty as the bitchy ones, and far less work. Just my 2 cents. Cheers, SB
Micky 2016-04-04 06:29:06
The above comment is extremely accurate.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-04 06:50:56
Agree with Shanghai Bobby. I can get hot girls no problem 7's are fine, 8's are doable but can be a grind, 9+'s are where you start to see a serious problem. You usually have to find ones fresh off the boat before they're ruined like Shanghai Bobby said OR try and snag them when they are 18-20 or so and don't realize their own value. They are entitled princesses because they are a rare commodity that every tall, ripped, good looking, millionaire is throwing money at. Depending on the market it usually requires you to invest money up front to try and hook them in, once they catch feelings though you can keep them around for a bit without it costing. Strippers, hot students, hot foreign imports, even the waify fashion models, I can get. The perfect glamour model types though, they are usually gone as soon as they realize I'm not willing to lay down serious cash or have something else to offer them (ie. private yacht parties with all the blow supplied etc.) . The vast majority of them will just ask for these things upfront, if you're not willing to give it to them, there's a queue of men who will. You can TRY to 'dangle the carrot' so to speak, and this sometimes does work, but they're usually wise to this game. And BD himself has mentioned that here: https://blackdragonblog.com/2014/05/05/perfect-tens/ That post is about tens, but it's all related to local dating market conditions. An 8 in Toronto might act like a 10 in NYC, for example, due to male/female ratios, level of non-monogamy and the quality of the male competition in relation to the quality of the girls.
Gluteus_Maximus 2016-04-04 07:10:28
@ Shanghai Bobby & Micky, and probably a bunch of other guys who think that's a problem Whether a woman is bitchy or not really doesn't matter, so long as they like you. If they like you, they're going to be on their best behavior, TOWARDS YOU. And that's really all that matters. But you have to be the kind of guy they know to be like that with. Lol, come on guys. BD even wrote:
Even back when I was doing all kinds of things wrong, I didn’t get laid very much, but when I did they were very attractive.If they like you, most shit doesn't matter. That's why outcome independence is important. It's so that you don't let the things you did that you think is stupid shit get in your head and self-sabatoge.
This dynamic is similar to how many people become rich and then turn into assholes.L O L I'm going to make an analogy: You know, girls will call guys asshole, whenever they don't play into their little games. As in, if a guy doesn't put a ring on her finger passed a certain point, they're going to call him an asshole. Poor people will call rich people assholes if they don't give them what they want, be it their money, through benefits, gifts, their attention, their advice, their TIME. I guarantee any of you, if you understand why hot girls are the way they are, and why rich people are the way they are, and that includes poor-people-turned-rich-people, you're not going to think they're assholes. But you guys can go after the "approachable" girls all you want. The "hot, bitchy" girls are actually easier, because MOST guys go after the "approachable" girl (I don't know why people say there's more competition with hot bitchy girls). LOL you guys don't get it, if you're the type of guy who can be comfortable face-to-face with hot women, you already stand out, they're going to love you, and at the very least intrigued. When you type of guys actually manage to "get your hands on" a very attractive woman, you guys hold on to her like a MOTHERFUCKER. Terrible position to place yourself in.
maldek 2016-04-04 07:13:30
"by two nerds who had probably never had sex with any woman" -> This. AD&D was and is most popular not by young jocks or high SMV guys who are naturals but by low SMV nerds. These SMV nerds get the same instant boner from that hot 9 like you and me. And they have the same dream of banging said hb9. I know this because we are the same age and I too was friends with these guys back in the 80s. What surprised me back then was the fact these guys would talk about the hot girls negativly a lot if you were their buddy but if you were a friend (!) you could hear a very different story. The difference between me and my friends was, very much like you BD, that i did talk to the hotties and activly pursued them because these were exactly the girls i wanted. The other guys did focus on the 4,5 and maybe (rare) 6s because these were the best girls they thought they could get. I remember one evening with one of my best friends back then. We were in a bar at age 20. And I did open up a set of hot girls. We talked to them for maybe an hour. Nothing else happened. Nothing. Afterwards he would tell me: "What a luck that such angels spend their time talking with people like us." This was the moment when i realized how important your mindset realy is. This guy was not horribly low SMV but he used to be one of the guys who would talk shit about HB9s a lot. Its not that he hated HB8 or HB9s. It is not that he thought they were somehow evil. It was the simple fact he couldnt imagine to get such a hot girl in his lifetime. Even talking to these women was not in his cards. It should be no surprise I never saw him (up to this day) date a girl better than 5.5.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-04 08:01:51
Whether a woman is bitchy or not really doesn’t matter, so long as they like you.I agree, but we're talking about meeting these women and getting enough face time to be able to get them to like you in the first place. When you're meeting them cold you will never even get that face time if the next guy is offering them cash, 5* holidays, yacht parties etc. As I said, one strategy is giving them what they want long enough for them to really like you, but it's costly.
I guarantee any of you, if you understand why hot girls are the way they are, and why rich people are the way they are, and that includes poor-people-turned-rich-people, you’re not going to think they’re assholes.I'm rich for my age and have dated plenty of hot girls. I understand exactly why I am how I am, and why hot girls are how they are, it's because they are treated like mini-celebrities. I don't blame them for that, but the fact that they're hard to get has nothing to do with my attitude towards them, they are simply in high demand so you have more competition from higher value competitors.
The “hot, bitchy” girls are actually easier, because MOST guys go after the “approachable” girlThis is typical old school, PUA, keyboard jockeying, bullshit. The hotter the girl, the harder she is to get on average. She gets approached more often, and by higher value men. Just like I don't think much of it when another skinny fashion model type who chases millionaires starts chasing me, the perfect 10 glamour models don't think much of it when I approach them because it's just another good looking, millionaire hitting them up. Your relative SMV and the local market have everything to do with how obtainable they are and what their attitudes will be like towards you.
POB 2016-04-04 08:09:38
I'll do some reverse engineering here: "I'm a very hot girl and I know it. I have hordes of guys kissing my ass. I'm so used to being bitchy it has become part of my standard behavior. I don't even notice. But I like him. He starts to behave like any other douche who's trying to get into my panties (needy, nerdy, only talks about sex, too distant etc). Now I'm not interested anymore. Now I'm bitchy again." See the pattern? The secret is there's no secret. You treat every woman the same, especially the hot ones you're trying to fuck. No exceptions. This is one thing where I don't agree with the trend among most PUAs: that you have to use different tactics and schemes to fuck very hot ones. Why? It does not matter if there's one guy or 300 guys chasing her. If she's interested and willing to fuck me, I'm fine with that. Also I've noticed that these women are usually the most insecure of them all (insanely high expectations of themselves). Being bitchy in some ways is just a disguise for those insecurities. Once you discover and accept this you don't even mind anymore.
SadiesBlonde 2016-04-04 08:19:30
What if the female protagonist was sultry and blonde and intelligent and clever and fun? Would that blow everybody's mind? Ruin the storyline? Make men more angry? Subconsciously men want the unattainable. They have a hunter mentality. I was just at a party where an older easily 8 blonde woman was twirling her wine glass and putting on airs. The men were staring at her not because she was the most beautiful woman in the room but because she presented herself as a challenge. I agree with BDs main point that subconscious beliefs about yourself are influential. And not to go all pop psychology but these subconscious beliefs are hard wired in childhood. Neuroplasticity and all that stuff aside it takes a hell of a focused effort to rewire.
Kurt 2016-04-04 09:26:02
Great post. I think this describes some of my mindset problems very accurately. As an aside, every time you use the abbreviation 'SP' I snicker uncontrollably; among my college friends we had many shorthand codes for things women-related and this was one of them. SP stood for 'smelly pussy'.
Carmichael Reid 2016-04-04 09:42:51
You can never attain that which you secretly resent. That goes for money and hot babes.Hit the nail on the head. Even to go a little further to stress that if you are a Man who is a Visible Minority and want to pick up hot chickas. You have to kill this idea today. Our cultures do a great job of spreading the idea that rich people are greedy criminals that cast poverty to the masses. You'll NEVER EVER get 9s and 10s chicks of different races if you don't have cash and/or that wealthy confidence (which is perceived as being an asshole. FYI: Wealthy Guys are much happier thus nicer than broke dudes). It's the exact same mentality to building wealth as it is the same with getting premium women anywhere in the world. "Hot Chicks Dig Money, Power and Fame" - Tom Leykis (possibly the ugliest man on radio who pulls ridic ladies)
Gluteus_Maximus 2016-04-04 10:18:42
Just like I don’t think much of it when another skinny fashion model type who chases millionaires starts chasing me, the perfect 10 glamour models don’t think much of it when I approach them because it’s just another good looking, millionaire hitting them up. Your relative SMV and the local market have everything to do with how obtainable they are and what their attitudes will be like towards you.Yup.
I’m rich for my age and have dated plenty of hot girls. I understand exactly why I am how I am, and why hot girls are how they are, it’s because they are treated like mini-celebrities. I don’t blame them for that, but the fact that they’re hard to get has nothing to do with my attitude towards them, they are simply in high demand so you have more competition from higher value competitors.You seem to have different categories of hot. Hot, super-hot, super-super-hot and super-super-hot-hot.
Strippers, hot students, hot foreign imports, even the waify fashion models, I can get.To me, hot is hot. There are "10 glamour models" that are not my type. There is a point where a woman is not worth the time or effort. Absolutely. But I'm not gonna turn down someone who models the online catalogue for some low-key chic retailer just because she's never appeared on the cover of Vogue.
This is typical old school, PUA, keyboard jockeying, bullshit. The hotter the girl, the harder she is to get on average. She gets approached more often, and by higher value men.Sure a hot woman will get approached more often (which I don't agree with since it's a fact that there are more pussies that are too scared to do anything than there are men), messaged more often. I just don't count half-assed attempts, lame attempts, or attempts from scrubs. Why should I? I'm awesome.
I’m rich for my age and have dated plenty of hot girls. I understand exactly why I am how I am, and why hot girls are how they are, it’s because they are treated like mini-celebrities. I don’t blame them for that, but the fact that they’re hard to get has nothing to do with my attitude towards them, they are simply in high demand so you have more competition from higher value competitors.Reread Shanghai Bobby's use of the example of rich people.
This dynamic is similar to how many people become rich and then turn into assholes.Both BD and Shanghai Bobby used rich people as examples, but only one of them didn't bother to call them assholes. This article is about perceptions that hold oneself back. You said it yourself, you have skinny fashion model girls chasing you. But like I said, you seem to have different tiers of hot, and most guys would only dream to get with your lowest one. The title of this article is "Why you can't get hot girls." If this doesn't apply to you, I don't understand why we're having this conversation. I also live in Los Angeles, so the women here are a lot "bitchier" than other places in the world, and I still think it's funny.
The Machine 2016-04-04 10:32:46
My game is pretty shit right now, and I haven't had a 6 or above since before I was married (then divorced). But there was a time where I got mostly 7s with 1 or 2 9s, so maybe I can't really speak on this from experience, but I've never a single 10. Only recently have I been getting into BDs book, and I have a plan to get the 10s. But, what I do remember is that I've never had an 8+ unless she already picked me - game for me didn't make a difference - at that time. I could be a nice guy, or a complete douche bag, but if she picked me - that was it. It could also be that I spent a lot of money on them from the get-go. Whether I secretly hated her didn't matter. Now that I'm back in the game and moving towards getting in shape, and doing things right, I've been picked by only 1 or 2 7s-8s, and let me tell you something, I don't know if it's me or them, but I CAN'T STAND them. The EGO, arrogance, and false pretenses these women live in is frikkin' unbelievable that yes I have to admit, regardless of my feelings when I was younger I really am starting to hate them - and they're only 7s and 8s. Hell even the 5s and 6s have an inflated self image. The 8 that I recently went out with talked for 3 hours straight, didn't ask a single question and bored me to death. She even sent me an Ulltimate IOI right after, only to ignore my text the very next day (I only texted her because she insisted on seeing me again THE VERY NEXT DAY). I see your point BD, but I have to say, sometimes it's not that we hate the hot girls - it's that there's a limit to how much BS a guy can take when it comes to these girls being so in love with themselves. I swear, by the end of that date I didn't even want to fuck her - I imagined her talking through the fucking session and was put off by the thought. Yes, don't hate the hot girl, but girls today are fucking delusional, it's hard not to.
Blackdragon 2016-04-04 11:19:01
Regarding the "But they really are bitchier!" argument: 1. The issue isn't if they're bitchy or not. The issue is only if they're harder to fuck. I have personally fucked many hot chicks who were very bitchy/entitled, and I have a much lower drama tolerance than most of you. I have also personally seen many other men do the same. (I'm not going to carry on a long-term relationship with a bitch, but that's a separate topic; I'm talking here about sex only.) If you assume that bitchy automatically equals harder to fuck, then you're proving my point. You're equating one thing that doesn't necessarily equal the other because of your personal attitudes towards hot chicks. I'm not saying bitchy never equates to harder to fuck; of course it does sometimes. Does it every time? No, and I know this for a fact. 2. I am not talking about SMV in this article at all. As I've said before, women who are perfect 10s are a little harder. This has nothing whatsoever to do with how bitchy or entitled they are, this has to do with SMV. I agree that SMV is a reality but it's an entirely different issue (one we've discussed on this blog many times). I'm talking here about your negative attitudes towards hotter women that affect your results, that's all. Also recall that I have said several times that usually (at least in my experience) 6s and 7s are harder to fuck than 8s and 9s. So again, assuming that hotter women are automatically harder to fuck is usually false (though I agree the difficultly goes up when you come across a perfect 10 who knows she's a perfect 10; again though, that's an issue of SMV, not bitchiness). 3. Side point: As I have discussed many, many times on here, the tiresome "women are harder here" argument is A) almost never as bad as men say it is, and B) if it's objectively true (and it probably isn't) then you need to stop whining and fucking move.
Cheesetrader 2016-04-04 13:46:16
The "rich people" angle is an excellent one b/c it gives us several ways to look at this issue. First, virtually every single rich person firmly believes he's earned and deserves his wealth - and he loves having money. Second, have you ever seen someone end up getting rich while holding the view that rich people are assholes and don't deserve it? If this is your mindset, you'll constantly sabotage yourself as you try to make money. Third, rich people aren't assholes. Oh sure, some are - but most aren't. What they are is cautious about being approached by freeloaders who resent them for their hard won wealth. I've worked very hard over the years to accumulate my nest egg - fuck you for asking if I'll give you a bunch of it - or worse, demanding that I give it to you out of "fairness". Substitute hot babes for money - and it's pretty much the same.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-04 18:20:27
The title of this article is “Why you can’t get hot girls.” If this doesn’t apply to you, I don’t understand why we’re having this conversation.Because it's relative. I'm reasonably young, good looking and wealthy, and there's still a tier of women I can't get or struggle to get, so it's still applicable. An ugly, poor guy might struggle to get the hot or cute girls I can get, but I struggle to get very hot girls that rich, celebrity types drown in.
Also recall that I have said several times that usually (at least in my experience) 6s and 7s are harder to fuck than 8s and 9s.This is not true in my experience at all nor is is it true for many of the men I know who are huge players, nor is it true for the dating companies I have worked with. There is a direct correlation between a girls attractiveness and how hard she is to get into bed, and the correlation is NOT linear, but exponential, so the effort to sleep with 1 x 8 /10 might be 10x that to sleep with a 7. I'm utterly stunned that people are having a different experience with this, because this tends to be a universal truth, regardless of location, and other experienced players have spoken about this as well: http://www.rooshv.com/the-unintended-consequences-of-pursuing-very-beautiful-women I do agree though that the hottest women are the easiest to fuck IF you use money, they tend to be more prone to gold diggery tendencies and will more willingly accept cash for sex.
I am not talking about SMV in this article at all.But it has everything to do with SMV. I think while there might be some truth to the article (the way I look at it a man's attitude towards women plays into his SMV, so if he resents them, his SMV will take a hit), the general premise is still wrong. Your assertion is that: - Men can't get with hot women because of their resentment towards these hot women I disagree, and would instead propose that: - Men can't get with hot women because their SMV isn't high enough, and this leads them to resent these hot women. Their resentment is a symptom of not being high enough SMV to get these women and NOT the cause. A rich, famous, good looking man can resent or hate women all he wants (why he would, I don't know, but it's possible), but he'll still have the hottest women throwing themselves at him. While a low SMV man can hold no resentment towards hot women, and still have no chance of getting with them.
joelsuf 2016-04-04 19:03:04
I think it has to do with self esteem. If you as a man are ugly on the inside then you can only get certain chicks. If you have had issues with self worth and self esteem etc and if you have a mental illness or something, then traditionally attractive chicks are just not going to be within your grasp. This is something that I agree with sex negative MGTOW on. The only chicks I have been able to get with are big ones, and I'm not really convinced that it is my fault. Its just something I have to deal with and settle with. Maybe its a low self esteem thing, but I doubt it is. Traditionally attractive chicks to me have never even been polite to me at all or shown me any respect. I had a crush on a cheerleader in high school, and she tried to get me arrested for stalking because I creeped her out so bad. I've done worse to less attractive chicks during that era and they didn't do shit. So I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree here. Moreover, Elliot Rodger didn't just hate attractive chicks, he hated any being with a vagina but secretly envied them and wanted to protect them. He couldn't handle such mixed messages and ALSO felt threatened and pressured by the toxic masculine mantra of "a man is judged by their laycount and the attractiveness level of their lays" and that's what drove him to do what he did. Sex negativity and toxic masculinity made Elliot Rodger kill people.
Carmichael Reid 2016-04-04 19:05:30
A rich, famous, good looking man can resent or hate women all he wants (why he would, I don’t know, but it’s possible), but he’ll still have the hottest women throwing themselves at him. While a low SMV man can hold no resentment towards hot women, and still have no chance of getting with them.What's your point? It seems moot. In both cases they don't get the girl. Ironic how you bring up Roosh in the same breath who is notorious for resentment of women, he's good looking, rich, (in)famous yet he writes articles about how he cannot get with premium women.
Their resentment is a symptom of not being high enough SMV to get these women and NOT the cause.Again, classic putting pussy on the pedestal. Which, BD is trying to make a point. Guys who think girls are out of their league secretly make up alibis for pre mature rejection which creates imaginary resentment. If guys simply realized how insecure hot girls are and that there is no such woman in the world out of their league, they will pull more world-class tail than gutter hunting. Which most guys do with not only their sexual prospects but their occupational opportunities. Everyone knows hot girls are more available than low hanging fruit. But, if men want to keep setting their standards low, more hotties for me. I rather strike out trying to crush bombs than hit meaningless singles.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-04 19:12:05
In both cases they don’t get the girlRich, famous, good looking guys have no problem getting the girl regardless of their resentment towards them or not, low SMV guys that have no resentment don't get the girl, that's my point.
he’s good lookingYou have to be kidding.
If guys simply realized how insecure hot girls are and that there is no such woman in the world out of their leagueYes, a broke, quasimodo looking guy can get with supermodels if he just has the right mindset and realizes that no woman is out of his league... LOL
Carmichael Reid 2016-04-04 19:33:04
If a guy who resents women gets the girl, he isn't enjoying himself. So what's the point? You laugh, but that is what the entire manosphere "industry" is built on. Which I don't like. This is not the first I've said that and been laughed at. I'm glad I was taught not to make any excuses for girls. I pity you guys who put limits on yourselves. You guys give yourselves away about the kind of ladies and life you live. Which is full of resentment. The great thing about being a man compared to a woman. A man does not need any expensive surgeries to increase his self-esteem, his funds, his possessions, or his attitude. But I love the underdog. Because he always gets the last and loudest laugh.
Carmichael Reid 2016-04-04 19:46:24
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW_UprP6pCM" if this guy can embarrass most top notch guys, anything is possible.
Blackdragon 2016-04-04 19:52:06
This is not true in my experience at all nor is is it true for many of the men I know who are huge players, nor is it true for the dating companies I have worked with.Go hop over to the NextASF forum and poke around. You'll see several very experienced players who say that fucking 6s-7s is the same or harder than 8s-9s. I've had many men report in my email the same. I'm not the only guy who has experienced this. If you've never personally experienced it, or have never met anyone who has personally experienced it, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree (and we must live on different planets). (Again I will say that perfect 10s who know they're 10s are clearly harder.)
Your assertion is that: – Men can’t get with hot women because of their resentment towards these hot womenNot exactly. My assertion is that many men who can't get with hot women (not all, but many) have a more difficult time doing so because resentment towards hot women. It's not that they "can't."
I disagree, and would instead propose that: – Men can’t get with hot women because their SMV isn’t high enough, and this leads them to resent these hot women.I don't disagree with that in some cases, perhaps many cases, but not all cases. Many men probably resent hot chicks because these men are hopeless losers, sure. Not all men though. Elliot Roger was A) very good looking, B) rich (from a rich family at least; he drove a nice car, wore nice clothes, etc), C) wanting to fuck women his own age. His SMV was quite high, yet he still hated these chicks, and thus couldn't fuck any of them. So there's more to the equation than just a man's SMV. But sure, I agree it's a factor in many cases.
Their resentment is a symptom of not being high enough SMV to get these women and NOT the cause.In some cases, sure. In others, no. You're stating absolutes (which you have a tendency to do).
A rich, famous, good looking man can resent or hate women all he wants (why he would, I don’t know, but it’s possible), but he’ll still have the hottest women throwing themselves at him.If he's famous, then I agree, since famous changes all the rules, but that doesn't change what I said above. If you delete the "famous" aspect, I have personally known men who were high income and/or good looking, or both, who had lots of trouble getting women. You seem to imply that high income and good looks is all a man needs to be good with women. Completely incorrect. (This is a common manosphere myth.)
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-04 19:59:34
If a guy who resents women gets the girl, he isn’t enjoying himself. So what’s the point?Once a guy can consistently get the hot girl, his resentment for them goes away usually. Men resent the hot girls because they can't get them, as soon as they increase their value enough to get them, they'll realize these girls become much nicer to them, and their resentment goes away.
You guys give yourselves away about the kind of ladies and life you live. Which is full of resentment.I'm married to an attractive girl, who I've been with for several years who is an amazing person, keeps a wonderful home and will make a great mother. It's open, and I'm currently seeing a hot 20 year old student on the side, and was seeing a 19 year old fashion model who's done some big national shoots and is also big 4 beauty pageant contestant, although she's been increasingly flakey so I'm going to start looking for someone more reliable. I run my own company, have alot of freedom, and am a reasonably young millionaire. Is that the kind of ladies you expected I was seeing and the sort of life you expected I was living? I don't resent hot girls, but I understand why guys do, and in many cases it's justified. I resented them too when I was younger, then I got rich, and suddenly they were alot more attainable and were suddenly super nice to me (weird huh?), so my attitude towards them changed in turn... funny that.
The great thing about being a man compared to a woman. A man does not need any expensive surgeries to increase his self-esteem, his funds, his possessions, or his attitude.Well yeah, the great thing about being a man compared to a woman is that your SMV is not almost entirely tied to your looks and youth. You can increase your wealth and status. Furthermore our SMV can be maintained (and even go up) as we age.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-04 20:06:43
Not exactly. My assertion is that many men who can’t get with hot women (not all, but many) have a more difficult time doing so because resentment towards hot women. It’s not that they “can’t.”Putting it like that, I agree. It is going to make it harder. But at the same time if these men see their looks, wealth, status etc. increase and in turn start getting more positive reactions from women, that resentment will decrease. So I would say the two things feed into each other, increasing your SMV will make for more positive reactions with women, and having a more positive attitude towards women will increase your SMV.
Go hop over to the NextASF forum and poke around. You’ll see several very experienced players who say that fucking 6s-7s is the same or harder than 8s-9s. I’ve had many men report in my email the same. I’m not the only guy who has experienced this. If you’ve never personally experienced it, or have never met anyone who has personally experienced it, then I guess we’ll have to agree to disagreeThe only time I've ever heard of this, is on the internet. So yes, I'm remaining skeptical.
Again I will say that perfect 10s who know they’re 10s are clearly harder.Then why can't you concede that what applies to a perfect 10 in one market, might apply to 8+'s in a market that isn't as fruitful?
Carmichael Reid 2016-04-04 20:08:13
Anything can be said on the internet.
joelsuf 2016-04-04 20:15:15
But I love the underdog. Because he always gets the last and loudest laugh.That is the most Disney thing I have ever seen in my whole life. In the real world, the underdog gets left behind, and fast. And they are taught to be forgotten. Never forget: History is written by the winners, and manufactured and packaged by the winners. And trust me, none of us are winners here, no matter how much money we make and no matter how many chicks we hook up with, attractive or no.
ETA 2016-04-04 20:45:48
Another way to describe this phenomenon is their lack/low of sense of entitlement. These men are raised to believe they don't deserve to have sex with hot women. Women have created social constructs (SP as you like to call it) that make guys believe they are out of a girl's league, so they self reject themselves. Their resentment comes from internalized rejection, the internal struggle between the egotistical natural desire to be with a hot woman, and the emotional sense of undeserving of that type of women. Guys who have success with hot women they carry this internalized sense of entitlement where they continuously or subconsciously believe it's their god given right to have sex, the best sex with hot girls.
The Machine 2016-04-04 21:05:30
But I love the underdog. Because he always gets the last and loudest laugh.That is the most Disney thing I have ever seen in my whole life.
DodgeDrivr 2016-04-05 00:13:54
Nice that you are bold enough to finally talk about these kinds of women (hot blondes) since they are the ones most commonly found in bars and clubs for us American guys, most writers never even bother to touch on this issue due to political correctness or some grudge against these types of women. These types of women have given guys all the way from pure bread white to foreign (especially Asia, Middle Eastern, and Indian) fits. I do have to admit, getting them can be somewhat different and I will elaborate on that later on. I'll also speculate on why you have had success so hope you give my perspective a read and respond to it. I want to comment on the Eliot Rodger situation since it is so relevant to what I am about to say about these kinds of women. Eliot wanted these women as a form of revenge from all of those days spent in social isolation. California culture is very shallow and puts a lot of emphasis on status and who's popular. Eliot was not one of the cool kids, he wanted to compensate for it, so he went for the hot blondes in order to get revenge on his childhood friends and the higher status guys in his area. Even though Eliot was a good looking guy (no homo) and had the wealth, there were a few things working against him that would have made it very difficult for him to get the kinds of girls he desired even if he had the game. First, Eliot didn't have the kind of look and status that these women love. These girls love an extroverted jock or frat boy type of guy. Eliot was more of a hipster and deep thinker type who would have had more success with the quirky brunettes. His ethnic appearance wasn't doing him any justice either, these kinds of women generally hate "different". Second, Eliot was in Southern California and a rough college town at that. A hot blonde in California will not be like one from Oregon where people are generally nicer. The ones in Isla Vista and So Cal in general want the extroverted tall and handsome guy who has a lot of charisma, something Eliot lacked. That and in their college days, these girls tend to almost exclusively chase after jocks and frat boys from my experience. I believe location is also massive in this which might be helping you out. In Oregon and the northwest, these women aren't nearly that bad as they are in So Cal and the bible belt. In places where the frat bro uber-masculine status hungry culture exists (So Cal, a lot of bible belt states, and some post college grad east coast states), these women are as picky, shallow, and ice cold as they come. Most want a particular kind of guy with status which they can brag to their friends about. In the northwest states and states where this extremely shallow status hungry culture doesn't exist, these women are a lot more open minded. It is very easy to hate these kinds of women though, especially if you live in the kinds of areas I've talked about. These women are the harshest and coldest in terms of giving rejections to guys, some even take pleasure in it. Seen it happen at bars and nightclubs where these women give out hardcore ruthless rejections that would break most guys. For guys who were unfortunate enough to be raised in So Cal (like Eliot was) or the bible belt states, it is very easy to dislike these women as plenty of them do carry that stuck up ice queen demeanor. PS: Not to go all hippie on you but there are plenty of 9s and 10s out there that are not blonde.
Adam 2016-04-05 00:54:12
You can never attain that which you secretly resent. That goes for money and hot babes. Completely on the money with this one. Our attitudes to success are colored by our upbringing and by how we handle adversity and initial setback. Too many people take the easy way out which is to project their inadequacies onto their intended target. That way they can blame outer influences for their failure so as to avoid examining themselves. When you do this you give away your own personal power to that upon which you are projecting. If the hot girl didn't come to you because she is a bitch it means that she has the power over you. Blaming the government for your problems is another classic cop-out in this regard. You're literally handing your own personal power to the government by blaming it for your problems. Getting your personal power back means taking responsibility for your own actions. Such a move is truly terrifying for the vast majority of people. They would much prefer the cocooned luxury of powerless bliss where they are free to complain at how hard-done-by they are to the end of their days.
Gluteus_Maximus 2016-04-05 01:05:20
“Their resentment is a symptom of not being high enough SMV to get these women and NOT the cause.”That’s one step above the actual source. You’re not gonna’ go after anything you don’t believe is possible. You said:
“I’m reasonably young, good looking and wealthy, and there’s still a tier of women I can’t get or struggle to get…”Which means you’re figuring it out, which means you believe it’s possible for yourself. And you want to do it without throwing money at them. Resentment comes from thinking you cannot change your circumstances. It’s coming from a place of helplessness. This should sound familiar: “If I can’t get your guys’ attention, I’m going to do something SO CRAZY you’re going to be FORCED to give me your attention.” It’s hard as fuck to ignore someone when that person is committing violent acts against you, threatening your life, your loved ones, etc.
“Once a guy can consistently get the hot girl, his resentment for them goes away usually. Men resent the hot girls because they can’t get them, as soon as they increase their value enough to get them, they’ll realize these girls become much nicer to them, and their resentment goes away.”Yes, SMV can be raised, which is why SMV by itself does not mean shit. It’s the person behind the SMV. What makes up the “person behind” it? It’s the person’s worldview. Their beliefs, mentality, mindset whatever the fuck anyone wants to call it. Consciousness, the fucking thing inside the person you see staring back at you every time you decide to look in the mirror.
“I resented them too when I was younger, then I got rich, and suddenly they were alot more attainable and were suddenly super nice to me (weird huh?), so my attitude towards them changed in turn… funny that.”It was once you started to realize it was possible to attain hotter girls that your attitude changed (a transformation that was triggered through a series of events. Some people don't need a catalyst. Some do.). Again, whether you have low or high SMV, initially doesn’t mean anything. It’s knowing that SMV “doesn’t really matter,” or in more exact terms, it’s knowing that the factors that comprise SMV are to a large extent controllable. So much so, that you don't need to worry about it. When that clicks, the resentment is replaced with feeling empowered. I’m going to get a little bit fucking spiritual. At the same time, circumstances don’t always mean things outside of you. It’s knowing you have control over the way you think, how you define things, how you define yourself. There are always going to be guys that are richer, more intense, and there are always gonna’ be women who are hotter and more demanding. So why is it important to become even richer (and I’m just using attaining more wealth as a metaphor,) or to be with women who only date guys who have $50 mil in the bank, minimum, $100 mil, $200 mil. Or directed -- or have been casted lead role in at least 2 blockbuster films that had to at least be nominated for five golden-globes and six oscars. If that kind of stuff is important to you, then they’re important to you. For me, I don’t care. After a certain point, there’s really no benefit that I feel comes from continuing to play that game. And that's a conscious choice I've made. There are companies that stay small, purposefully. Because there is shit that comes with expanding too much, in certain directions, with fame, etc.
joelsuf 2016-04-05 05:24:47
if you live in the kinds of areas I’ve talked about. These women are the harshest and coldest in terms of giving rejections to guys, some even take pleasure in it. Seen it happen at bars and nightclubs where these women give out hardcore ruthless rejections that would break most guys.That's exactly what my experience was. Growing up in South Florida I had to deal with this virtually my whole life. If you are not perfect, even average chicks won't touch you and that's part of the social programming of being a chick in South Florida as well as the other places you mentioned: Teach ugly and weird boys their place, make sure they feel bad after hitting on you, and accuse them of harassment to eliminate them. Here is the CRAZY part. Years after high school I went on a date with a bigger chick who was also a cheerleader at the same high school I went to, and she TOLD me all this! It was part of their locker room conversations how they wish that ugly and weird guys didn't exist etc (similar to chicks who "short man shame" on twitter nowadays). I was over it by then but still...wtf man, its like some kind of eugenics program was taking place lol. Nowadays, I only attempt to get with chicks who are seen as traditionally unattractive, I'm so emotionally raw that I take no chances. This is *probably* a bad thing, but I see no other option 🙁 For me, the resentment for the attractive never went away. Only difference is I own it now and kinda laugh at it, knowing that there are certain people (sex negative MGTOW) who let said resentment run their lives. I may only lay fatties, but at least I get laid lol. I remember watching coverage of what Rodger did and for a moment I was like "wow. That could have been ME if I didn't start going after average/ugly/fat chicks." This is why I just cut my losses and started going after big and ugly chicks (and 33+s). The punishment that I received just by starting conversations with attractive chicks taught me to systematically hate myself (by them saying stuff like "I'll go with anyone but you"), so I decided to quit banging my head against a wall. So when sex negative MGTOW say that these kinds of chicks need to be controlled in some aspect, I understand where they are coming from although I don't agree with their opinions. Why attractive chicks continue to get white knighted is beyond me. So on this topic I have to disagree with BD, although I will admit its from an emotional standpoint. If attractive chicks want nothing to do with me, I will gladly walk away from them and get with their ugly counterparts.
POB 2016-04-05 11:49:06
Once upon a time I was a beta, skinny, had the weirdest hair ever and still hooked-up with a HB9 blonde. I've managed to pull that because I was so fed-up with my beta ways that I did not care anymore. I didn't give a fuck, and she noticed it. Once upon a time I was broke and had no furniture in my apartment. Still managed to pull a hot Argentinian back to my place to fuck her on top of a mattress covered in plastic. After it I offered her tap water (that's all I had to offer anyway).
You seem to imply that high income and good looks is all a man needs to be good with women. Completely incorrect. (This is a common manosphere myth.)Completely agree, just see above. I'm sorry, but in my book attitude trumps anything. BTW, I'm not denying the SMV factor...All I'm saying it's just one variable among a hundred others!
Duke 2016-04-05 13:48:06
Elliot Roger was A) very good looking
Roosh in the same breath who is notorious for resentment of women, he’s good lookingThis is what I love about the internet. People's different opinions on what constitutes as good looking. Roosh has probably gotten more physically attractive as he's gotten older. Elliot on the other hand I'm not so sure: http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1820510/thumbs/o-ELLIOT-RODGER-570.jpg
DodgeDrivr 2016-04-05 16:16:13
@joelsuf Okay, I was kind with you on the first sentence but after that? WTF. I usually don't insult people but man, what a fucking loser post. You deserve the ugly girls because quite frankly, based on your post, you're a spineless loser and that is all you can get. Do not drag the rest of us down to your level. Yes, hot girls might be hard but I still go for them and have some success. Just like majoring in engineering might be harder than majoring in art history but I am not going to go for a useless degree with debt. Dude, people like you are a fucking cancer on sites like the red pill. Just continue to fuck ugly girls and get lost, stop giving advice, and realize that most of us do not want to end up even remotely like you.
Duke 2016-04-05 16:52:42
@ DodgeDrivr, I don't understand the shaming even if this is a site for self improvement and getting women laid with attractive women. You should be saying, "hey more hotties for me" and laugh. Plus you must have a low opinion of men if you think any man can possibly be convinced to fuck fatties and uggoes. What I'm curious about is how he gets it up with fatties. I've only used them for oral when I'm in a slump or I'm lazy, but I've been trying to work on eliminating this behavior.
Blackdragon 2016-04-05 17:10:05
DodgeDrivr - Don't insult anyone one here again. Insult ideas and statements, not people. That's your last warning. One more time and you're gone. Read The Rules.
This is what I love about the internet. People’s different opinions on what constitutes as good looking.Elliot Roger was good looking (that pic you posted is a bad pic of him). Not gorgeous, but clearly higher than average. Roosh is very average looking. I agree that men tend to look better as they age, though. My opinion has always been that man's looks peak at around age 37, all other factors remaining equal.
Adam 2016-04-05 18:32:21
I agree that men tend to look better as they age, though. My opinion has always been that man’s looks peak at around age 37, all other factors remaining equal. Hmmm ... I met my wife when I was 37. You may be on to something there.
joelsuf 2016-04-05 19:08:19
you’re a spineless loser and that is all you can get. Do not drag the rest of us down to your level.Looks like you are doing it for me. Projecting detected. It may be all I can get but its better than what you get. Did I say something that hit too close to home?
Bonaire 2016-04-06 01:33:50
Good point but the problem is deeper really. Hot women are simply beyond the reach of a regular guy. Where can I even find them in my life? Tinder-hot women are swiping right on that famous top 5-10% of the guys where I don't belong.Work is out of question. Night game-hot women will cut you out without a turn of a head. Day game- I don't have balls for that.
Bonaire 2016-04-06 01:46:54
Roosh in the same breath who is notorious for resentment of women, he’s good looking, rich, (in)famous yet he writes articles about how he cannot get with premium women.I don't think he is either rich or good looking. He is resentful to women indeed for obvious reasons- complex of inferiority, possibly related to his inability to obtain hot women and some more profound issues.Unlike other men he could not get over it.Neither he was able to improve it by learning the game-something we try to do now. Instead he decided to blame the society and came up with his own "game"(=find a woman in a beta tolerant k-selection oriented societies). For me the give away number one of any man's ability to attract females is (potential) escapism. I am from Eastern Europe and I perfectly know how the cookie crumbles over there. If a man moves to poorer Eastern European,Asian or South American country purely for the purpose of getting laid- he is desperate and his success locally is below any acceptable level.Also,note how Roosh complains even about countries like Poland,comparing it to Ukraine or Russia justifying it by some mystical "westernisation". The reality is- people in Russia live in absolute poverty (average salary is 300-400$) while Poland is a much wealthier and developed country. Thus women are more independent financially and become less inclined to tolerate beta behaviour. Always look for this in any self proclaimed game coach or PUA writings.A "PUA" does not need to travel to a shit hole to get laid. Another example is Krauser-a "PUA" who can't get women locally coming up with all sorts of ridiculous justifications to that. The idea of the game is to be able to amplify the range of females you can sleep with anywhere in the world.No need to travel to Cuba for that.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-06 03:32:56
Unlike other men he could not get over it.Neither he was able to improve it by learning the game-something we try to do now. Instead he decided to blame the society and came up with his own “game”(=find a woman in a beta tolerant k-selection oriented societies).It has nothing to do with Beta behavior. Roosh is not beta, not even close, and he's approached thousands upon thousands of women in all sorts of situations, all around the world, full time, as in it was his job. Are you delusional enough to think that he doesn't have solid game, more so than 99.9999% of men on the planet after that. He dedicated his life to it! He just knows the limitations that his level of looks and wealth (or lack of) impose on him in the west. If he looked like a male model he would never have left America and would drown in pussy. Instead he realized that to get the sort of sex life he wanted with the type and AMOUNT of women he wanted (remember he never wanted a roster of a handful of girls when he first decided to travel he wanted as many notches as possible). So he traveled to softer markets. Based on what he was looking for and the fact he was single and free to travel it was a wise move. Of course he's going to get more and hotter women in a market where the obesity rate is way lower and the women are better looking on average and the competition from other men is alot lower because they are, on average, much poorer than a westerner. It's no different here in the west, women are the same everywhere, all that changes is the 'market rate', and in turn, their expectations from men and the entitled attitude that comes with it when their expectations reach the stratosphere. So the bar for a man is so much higher in the west to get the same looks level of girl. Given the same level of 'game' he has to be taller, better looking, wealthier and have higher status to get the same quality of girl in the west than he would in EE. If you could force a western woman to live in a poorer country, her expectations would drop real quick. Just like when you take one of these EE women and put them in a western country and within a year or 2 her attitude and expectations is indistinguishable from the women around her. All that matters is the market. You've got girls in the west being offered $500 a date now by good looking men. How do you expect to compete with that unless you're offering more or at least something close to it!? That same girl would be happy to be taken out to a nice bar if she lived in Ukraine.
Bonaire 2016-04-06 04:14:43
wolfofgeorgestreet says April 6, 2016 at 3:32 amSo what is your point? You are exactly supporting my thesis that Roosh is not a PUA. PUA stands for artist- a person who is top of his field in what he does. Travelling to "softer markets" for PUA is like a normal athlete of average ability competing in special Olympics and claiming to be better than the rest. You've got to be picky on who you read and who you learn from.Don't waste your time on reading mental wanking of a man who had to travel to a poor Eastern European country just to get women.You won't learn from him.You will get charged with a lot of hatred but won't learn any game.Because he does not know any. It's like going to Cuba and be proud of "pulling HB" on the Malecon. It's ridiculous.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-06 04:41:42
PUAI'm going to give you a little hint. PUA tactics can only do so much. Once you have a solid system in place, know how to approach and lead on your dates, are direct, masculine, cool, can handle shit tests, be unaffected under pressure, and know how to escalate and be sexual, handle objections/LMR/ASD, have your logistics sorted, then that's about it for the most part. There's nothing left to learn. The rest is just putting in the numbers. I was on mASF (the original 'PUA' forum post ASF if you're unaware) back in 2003 when I was a teenager, long before 'The Game' was ever published. I've seen it all, I've done it all. Once you know what you're doing all there is to improve is your looks, wealth and status and approach more and more volume. If you've maxed out those and are approaching like a dog and you're still not getting the results or quality you want, you have to move to a softer market. I actually believe 'game' is more important in a relationship sense, for managing your relationships, especially if you're doing OLTR's/MLTR's. That's much more interesting and in depth, and this is one of the best (if not the best) open relationship management blogs on the internet. I mean you say this...
Where can I even find them in my life? Tinder-hot women are swiping right on that famous top 5-10% of the guys where I don’t belong.Work is out of question. Night game-hot women will cut you out without a turn of a head. Day game- I don’t have balls for that.And then you're trying to tell me that a guy like Roosh or me doesn't have game? I'm banging a 19yo model for gods sake that I actually met off tinder, with full knowledge of my wife, and Roosh has probably slept with more hot women in a year than you've slept with in your life. Roosh may be unhappy because he's looking for some disney fantasy relationship, he's what BD would refer to as an Alpha 1.0, but he knows what he's talking about when it comes to meeting women.
Anon. 2016-04-06 05:38:59
Actually, that’s not what things look like in Ukraine. The main factor is great income disparity. You may be used to some part of the population being poor, those having decent jobs having more money, those with high-demand professions being rich and a small part being very rich. In Ukraine, and likely in other countries with bad economy, most people are poor at about the same level, meaning they spend almost all their money on basic needs like food and rent, there’s hardly any middle class and some people are obscenely rich through shady means (look up “pshonka mansion” for how the former Attorney General used to live). So Ukrainian women targeting regular men aren’t expecting any significant money because they know the man isn’t likely to have any, while gold diggers expect quite some amount of it. A regular woman, if taken to an establishment she couldn’t have afforded otherwise, would likely be intimidated rather than charmed. Thus attempting to “buy” a Ukrainian girl doesn’t really work unless one is willing to pay quite a price, that’s what my current understanding is (never actually attempted to do that). In the name of science I should perhaps get in touch with some of the gold diggers to quantify their demands, to verify (or disprove) this assessment. Though I’m pretty sure iPhones and jewelry are involved. And for comparison, the very most expensive hookers in Kiev seem to cost ~$80/hour, median price being half that. The woman Roosh fell in love with in Ukraine was actually financially well-off, so she found something in Roosh’s personality attractive, and not his (perceived) money (though in Ukraine people who look like Roosh don’t evoke the image of a wealthy foreigner in the slightest). And then he, despite describing her as perfect in every regard, admitted getting bored with her. Proving BD’s points yet again.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-06 07:25:01
In the name of science I should perhaps get in touch with some of the gold diggers to quantify their demands, to verify (or disprove) this assessment. Though I’m pretty sure iPhones and jewelry are involved.I've spoofed my tinder there before and was swimming in model tier matches. Generally speaking being nice and offering to take them out for drinks or dinner worked well for me. Managed to line up a heap of dates. Some of the really hot ones had a heap of travel pics on yachts, in expensive sports cars etc. I'm assuming these were the semi-escorts/gold diggers. With them I told them I was travelling around Europe/Asia and looking for a travel companion, all expenses paid, most of them jumped at it and asked to me to take them to, what seemed to be, expensive restaurants, to see if I was legit I presume... Or just for a free meal. Either way it was an eye opener, when I struggle to get matches of that caliber at all in Sydney. Would love to experience it in person, perhaps one day I'll convince my wife to let me go on a solo trip there.
Bonaire 2016-04-06 08:47:03
And then you’re trying to tell me that a guy like Roosh or me doesn’t have game? I’m banging a 19yo model for gods sake that I actually met off tinder, with full knowledge of my wife, and Roosh has probably slept with more hot women in a year than you’ve slept with in your life.First of all I dont understand why you switch to personal insults from a reasonable discussion.I personally have never claimed to be a PUA or even good in game.I also was on Masf back in 2005 too, I clearly remember first posts of JWS,I remember first works of Franco etc.Than I lost interest and revisited all this pua world online only recently (to find that only few decent guys are left while the market is saturated with roosh and alike). I did not say that you had no game.I don't know you at all.Maybe you have. And by the way banging a girl off Tinder-has a marginal proof of having a game, as the app is looks based.But anyways-good job. You don't have to prove anything or qualify to me really.I am not sure what made you feel this way. I can however say that Roosh has not got much to say about the game.This is evident from his writings, from those few pictures he posted with women and by comparison of my extensive knowledge of Eastern Europe to his remarks.I have slept with over 50 women in my life,and over 15 flags, so I think it's quite a decent number for a person who does not claim to have any game. With regards to hotness- back in Eastern Europe in my home town I dated a local celebrity dance teacher and I slept with a 20 years old ex national football team footballer's WAG. I have my status back home mainly due to my old childhood connections to wealthy kids (now rich adults) from the area. Roosh and like cant simply have this, its beyond their reach. Yet I don't include this women in my hall of pride I normally don't rank EE women high in my life at all for a various number of reasons. A decent benchmark of your attractiveness as a man is how consistently good you perform in any market regardless of its current economic situation or level of female emancipation.I know that I probably wont be able to have women of similar status in Scandinavia. I don't have much access to hot women in the west currently and this is what my comment about. I am not afraid of hot women because I had them in my life-I just don't know where to find them at this stage. Just yesterday I was on a tinder date-the girl turned up to be at least 2 points lower then on the pictures.It was a fiasco.I don't have much social life at the moment due to my work neither. As I noted before I am here to learn. We rely on clues to know whether a person dispensing advice on game has any authority and experience. As I clearly mentioned above- a move to softer markets is a give-away sign of lack of game, whatever is a justification (unless job engagements of course).You can clearly observe this in Roosh's transformation. He already complaints about Poland, blaming the mythical "westernisation" for his failures with women locally, as much as he blamed american women back home or European women while in Europe. He can escape US but he cant escape his inner game (or lack thereof). Anyways, a reader can make his own educated decision on who to read.It's a pity though that a lot of guys go on the wrong path of female hatred, Disney like dreams and conspiracy theories of Roosh and alike, instead of embracing decent advice from guys like BD ,franco and many more from asf and beyond. This is my point too.
Blackdragon 2016-04-06 10:59:18
Hot women are simply beyond the reach of a regular guy.I really hope you don't actually believe that. Remember you can become any type of man you want, with time and work. And I've seen plenty of average-looking guys fuck ultra-hot girls.
Tinder-hot women are swiping right on that famous top 5-10% of the guys where I don’t belong.Then don't use Tinder. I don't. Use normal dating sites/apps.
Work is out of question.I agree.
Night game-hot women will cut you out without a turn of a head.Untrue but I can't speak about night game.
Day game- I don’t have balls for that.Then you're hopeless. Clearly you don't want to put in any effort to change. Good luck.
I don’t think he is either rich or good looking.Correct; Roosh is neither rich nor good looking. Carmichael was wrong when he said that.
The idea of the game is to be able to amplify the range of females you can sleep with anywhere in the world.No need to travel to Cuba for that.I agree. Once you reach a baseline of skill, you can get laid anywhere, and the biggest obstacle becomes how picky you are (what type/race/look of woman you like).
Dave 2016-04-06 14:56:03
A lot of the people commenting on here - especially that guy calling himself the wolf of some street or other - are borderline psychopaths. That's not a personal attack - just go back and read what you wrote and have a think about if you're a normal person, or a self-obsessed sociopath who looks at women as meat to be conquered.
TS 2016-04-06 17:23:41
Elliot Rodger was decent looking but he didn't look masculine. The guy look like he doesn't lift weights and he was smaller frame. Some girls might like that but American white girls typically go for taller and muscular looking guys. Plus he was only interested and kept his obsession towards Blonde girls and he was waiting for girls to approach (which will not likely happen) and he was scare of rejection. He had money, semi decent looks but he probably was socially awkward and won't be surprised if he had no friends or (friends who have social circles involving girls). People on manosphere websites debate on looks vs game. BOTH are important. Looks do matter but that's what holds girls attention. If she sees that you don't act confident and are socially awkward (even though you may be good looking and muscular), it will send off unattractive vibe to the girl. Being rich does work but if you are still shy and nervous around girls, then it's not going to do any help. A lot of combination are important. Money, fame, looks, muscles, style, social skills, game, height, race/ethnicity, confidence, etc. All that matters (to more or less but still matters). Still have to know that rejections are inevitable. Just like in sales, always assume and try to close and if not then move onto next girls. As soon as you factor out that emotion equation out (fear of rejection) and just move into close, with many rejections you are bound to get some. Men who harbor resentment towards hot girls probably can't get over the fact that they are not getting laid by them. Why else would a man harbor negative feelings towards them? Don't have high expectation of female and don't put them on pedestal but don't resent them either.
joelsuf 2016-04-06 17:27:38
A lot of the people commenting on here – especially that guy calling himself the wolf of some street or other – are borderline psychopaths. That’s not a personal attack – just go back and read what you wrote and have a think about if you’re a normal person, or a self-obsessed sociopath who looks at women as meat to be conquered.You took a wrong turn, man. tumblr is... <-------------That way.
Blackdragon 2016-04-06 17:36:01
a self-obsessed sociopath who looks at women as meat to be conqueredYeah...someone's posting at the wrong site.
Elliot Rodger was decent looking but he didn’t look masculine. The guy look like he doesn’t lift weights and he was smaller frame.Irrelevant. His looks were good enough to lay 30 women by the time he reached his age, including cute blonde ones in California, if he focused on his confidence, outcome independence, game, etc. Yet he hadn't even kissed a girl. Ridiculous. His problem was his attitude, not his appearance.
joelsuf 2016-04-06 17:50:45
Men who harbor resentment towards hot girls probably can’t get over the fact that they are not getting laid by them. Why else would a man harbor negative feelings towards them?I'll tell you why I harbor negative feelings towards attractive chicks. Its because they harbor negative feelings towards ME! If they didn't falsely accuse me of harassment, call me an autistic freak, weirdo or creep just because a guy who doesn't have 8 pack abs and makes 6 figures a year tried to have a conversation with them and asked them out I wouldn't despise them so much. But when the only treatment you have ever gotten from an attractive chick has been bad, you tend to know your place. And I HAVE gotten over it...not by hurting people like Elliot Rodger did, but by knowing my place and getting with chicks on my level of attractiveness. For me that means meh looking and ugly looking chicks. That's just how nature works. Some people aren't designed to be with the most attractive people. Look, maybe I'll be able to hook up with a chick who is more attractive than the ones I currently hook up with. Its nothing I won't attempt to do now that I've learned how not to creep chicks out. But I'm not BANKING on it, I'm not so emotionally invested in it like so many Sex Negative MGTOW were when they were in their "white knight her into the bed" stage. And I'm definitely not going to let my laycount and the attractiveness level of the chicks I have sex with define my self worth like Alpha 1s do. This idiotic PUA notion that "any man can hook up with any chick, yo!" is one of the most delusional things I have heard from PUAs (among SEVERAL claims). Its at the source of its scamming tactics (again, only ONE of several). And the thing that worries me the most is that more and more boys are buying into this, getting let down, and instead of just knowing their place like I do, they just get butthurt, mad at the world, and retreat into their mothers' basements while jerking off over 9000 times a day to porn and fantasizing about being the next Elliot Rodger. Then they go sex negative MGTOW and claim that they are "starting a revolution." What revolution is that, the tentacle hentai porn revolution? Don't make me laugh.
joelsuf 2016-04-06 17:57:55
A lot of combination are important. Money, fame, looks, muscles, style, social skills, game, height, race/ethnicity, confidence, etc. All that matters (to more or less but still matters).That's right. And if those don't "match up" to the chicks you are trying to get with, then guess what? You aren't gonna get them. SOOOOO, if you want a really attractive chick, you must ALSO be attractive in those qualities and she must be able to see through to it. If you are just a decent looking guy but have none of the others then you aren't attractive at all. If all you have is social skills and game then you still aren't enough. One of my buddies has 8 pack abs, is 6'1'' and makes $50k a year and is white. He lost his virginity at 25. Married the second chick he hooked up with, who easily weighs over 200lbs. He had the looks and the money, but his social skills sucked, and he wasn't confident with chicks at all. With me, I am average looking but broke cuz I don't really value money or possessions (I understand this is holding me back), I don't really have a close group of friends where I'm at, and I just don't feel confident with better looking chicks because of how they treated me when I was younger. So based on that I pretty much only get with average/ugly/fat chicks. Also I don't really get out there as much as I know I should so maybe I'm just fooling myself. Who knows.
TS 2016-04-06 18:55:59
joelsurf, I can feel your frustration and yes I agree with some of your points. I don't know your situation that well. For example. I'm an average height with some muscles, Asian and have some decent income. My social skills are pretty good in my opinion. My sexual market is very low in America and my lay counts are ridiculously low. But I still approach because I just assume sales. I done sales work before so I know what it feels like to be rejected. In fact, I been called "creep" so many times but I never got called a "pussy". I approach even if I get ridiculous and even borderline embarrassing rejection. Some girls will like you for your look and some girls will not. That's just the way it is. I still don't harbor resentment towards girls who rejected me. I just accept it, move on to the next girl. However if I go abroad like Asia, my sexual market is very good and my notch counts are higher and I get less rejection. And it works too because I find foreign women (especially Eastern European, Latin American, and Asian girls) to be more attractive compared to American girls. Not hating on American girls but I find them to be bland. I still try to hit on hot girls regardless of their origin (wherever I am and whenever I want). Since I am not obsessed with white American girls like some Asian guys are and most of them don't find me attractive, it's not lose situation for me. I try to think positive and I do think looks are important (it's not the end of all, but most girls DO emphasize on looks and especially height). But if you are short and you don't find some girls' expectation on looks, don't lose hope. There will always be the right girl for you. Just think positive and don't take rejections seriously.
DodgeDrivr 2016-04-06 21:24:52
Reading through these comments and seeing such toxic pessimism makes me both grateful yet sad at the same time. Grateful that the competition is, well, not that rough. Sad that some potentially great guys in development are going to come across this and feel discouraged, even buying into the toxic beliefs. I want to give a few pieces advice to any guy (of any race) who is interested in the hot blonde All American girl type that BD talks about in his blog. 1 - Break into the nightlife scene and get a job there. It is fucked up but I have seen bartenders at nightclubs and guys that work these sorts of establishments absolutely clean up with the blonde bimbo types. Doctors and more "boring" professions tend to struggle a lot with these kinds of women while the more edgier and cool professions tend to do well with them. 2 - Muscle up! The plain brunette might go for a skinny fat guy who has some serious game but whenever I have seen hot blondes go for a guy, of any race, he had some serious beef on him. These girls are going to get harassed a lot by strangers and they want a guy they can lean on for protection. 3 - You're much better off in areas with a very white population, this will result in bonus points if you're a guy of a minority group with his shit together. I've gamed hot blondes in Georgia (where there were a lot of black people and not many good looking white girls in general) and in Wisconsin (where there were plenty of hot white girls to go around), it was 10 times easier in Wisconsin because there were more hot blondes. When you game them in "diverse" areas where there aren't many hot blondes, you're going to run into a lot of stuck up ones because well, they're a commodity. It is much harder to get these women in Toronto, San Francisco, and Atlanta compared to Milwaukee or Minneapolis where they are a dime a dozen.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-06 22:19:39
@DodgeDrivr To sum up your advice
1 – Break into the nightlife sceneIOW increase your social status
2 – Muscle up!IOW increase your looks
3 – You’re much better off in areas with a very white population, this will result in bonus points if you’re a guy of a minority group with his shit togetherIOW move The only thing you were missing in that advice is to increase your wealth, because a great pad, nice car, being able to take them to nice places etc. will also help. So to put that all together getting the hot chicks is about Looks, money, status and location (meaning a market that works for you). 😉
especially that guy calling himself the wolf of some street or other – are borderline psychopaths.Lol, I'm flattered I was singled out for an honorable mention.
makes $50k a year He had the looks and the moneyIf you think making 50k a year is 'having money' in the eyes of western females... I've got some bad news for you.
Blackdragon 2016-04-06 22:40:28
So to put that all together getting the hot chicks is about Looks, money, status and location (meaning a market that works for you).No. Again I will repeat this is a gross oversimplification. The PUA world has always been full of guys, particularly young guys, with no money (to the point of being unemployed and living on friend's couches) and no six pack at all (often very skinny) who get laid like rockstars. Because they have confidence and strong game and they get out there and put in the numbers. Of course amazing looks and tons of money help you get laid. I also agree these things become more important as you get older and still want to hook up with younger women. But I know too many men who get laid plenty who don't have much of either of those things. Someone above said that the PUA world used to say "You can fuck any girl you want!" which of course was bullshit, but now the manosphere has done a complete 180 on this and is telling everyone that unless you're ripped and make six figures you're pretty much out of luck and aren't going to get laid. That's bullshit too. The answer, as is so often the case, lies in the middle of these two incorrect extremes.
Captain 2016-04-06 22:44:04
If you know game and have reasonably high smv, you will indeed get quality women anywhere you go. However, certain places are legitimately tougher than others. I live in Southern California and even though there are tons of hot women here, there are also tons of entitled, self righteous, bitchy women. I consider myself an 8 (tall, fit and very handsome). I have intermediate game and strong confidence. I have no trouble meeting much younger 7s, 8s and 9s here. I often even get one night stands from them. However these girls tend to be really shallow and less sexual than woman from other countries I've been to. I have had no luck keeping a hot, early 20s California girl around for more than a few hookups. They just have too many options. Younger 6s and older hotties are a different story. But as BD says these older woman have their own set of issues. When I travel (especially abroad) it is a completely different story. Everywhere I've been in the last 2 years since my divorce, I have met and gotten with very hot, younger women without much of a struggle. This includes some countries that are considered easy for guys (Thailand, Philippines and Nicaragua) but it also includes countries that are considered the toughest in the world (Turkey, Spain, England and Portugal). Beautiful, sweet, young women are my oysters. Unfortunately in Southern California the beautiful, (not so sweet), young women don't always see it that way.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-06 23:05:38
The answer, as is so often the case, lies in the middle of these two incorrect extremes.Yes, of course. But alot of the manospherians preaching this are coming from a place where we already have years of game experience and confidence behind us. We're coming from a place where we don't even feel rejection or nerves or any of that stuff. We've been on more dates in a year than most guys go on in their entire lives. So of course we're preaching this. Once you have already internalized all the 'PUA' stuff all there is, is increasing those external factors. To bang the hottest girls in the toughest markets consistently you absolutely need game PLUS looks, money, status, or if you are lacking in these last three, find a better market. Of course some guy who has no social skills or game to speak of is going to have a tough time no matter how good looking or rich he is. Alot of us have hit our 30's and are grappling with limitations we can't change, ie. height (I'm 5'9 but wear lift shoes to make me 5'11 to 6'0 which definitely helps), stuff like that. We've hit a ceiling so to speak, that's why alot of us start to preach moving etc.
However, certain places are legitimately tougher than others. I live in Southern California and even though there are tons of hot women here, there are also tons of entitled, self righteous, bitchy women.LA, Miama, Toronto, Sydney are some of the toughest markets on earth. Some of the easier places in the US include Chicago and NYC. London is tougher than NYC and Chicago, but not as tough as the first four places mentioned. This is based on ONLINE dating data, and was what I witnessed working with online dating companies globally. Approaching in person may be different, but generally speaking the online results are a good reflection of the dating market in general.
Johnny Doe 2016-04-07 01:10:57
Why I resent women who I perceive to be decent looking and up My perception is that women who are decent looking and up have so many more options than me in terms of getting a date, that it's impossible to ever stand out to actually get out on a date with them - I cannot overcome their power of choice. I've struggled with it for years. For a long time I felt it was not my fault I couldn't get a date, it was the circumstances. And not for fucking mind you, I'm speaking strictly of meeting up one one one in a public place to talk and just have conversation. The threshold for guys to do that is considerably higher than it was before Tinder, facebook, okcupid, and instagram ever existed. I'm thinking in the 1950s girls did not flake on guys because they had 1000s of readily accessible suitors available online and on their smartphone. If a woman who is decent looking and up, shitty personality or not, knows how to post a selfie, she wields immense social power. It dwarfs, or eclipses that of a man. The strangest part is, a photo is not representative of a person, its just a picture. I think when you see a woman in person, in daytime, that's a very real indicator of what she looks like, and getting to interact with her, not through text, is a very real indicator of what she acts like. But men worship photos, so, so much, when that is only 10% representation of a woman. I began to hate asking for numbers because I knew it wasn't going to go anywhere, since numbers are not necessarily an indicator of interest. I was never relaxed about dates until the girl showed up, because I have been stood up, even AFTER a girl said we could go out on a date, agreed, on a place and time. I believe, women flaking, and women getting hit on by hundreds of guys, has made women feel like they have no part/obligation in the dating game, and they are superior to men - they are Gods so to speak. Meaning its ok to go online, and never respond to 100s of messages for an ego boost. That's also true of going out to a bar, a nightclub, and hanging out your number and texting a bunch of guys. It's also ok to agree on a date and never follow through and actually show up. And a guy BETTER Not get mad about it, that's how it goes! Man has a role and a part in dating (to initiate, to pursue to have game, to pay), a woman has no part at all, no even showing up. The biggest proof I've ever seen of female privilege in dating is the fact that all articles about women flaking on guys after agreeing to go on dates is all of the articles suggest 'strategies' for the men to reduce chances of that happening, as if its men's fault. It was astounding to me that male and women writers who addressed this issue addressed the gender that had done nothing wrong, and spoke up for the gender who had. How can you control someone who flakes? You cannot, its simple as that. I've been flaked in every different way possible, and its NEVER because I'm pressuring a girl for a date and she wants me to go away - which is a strawman so commonly favored to write about by dating coaches. I hate it when girls flake just to get my hopes up and destroy them again and again to boost their ego, but I no longer care, I expect it, and I feel that's an action on their part, and I have no control over it. Sometimes I feel helpless and in despair because I have no control over it, but I have no control so ultimately its not my fault. It astounded me that no one called out women for leading men on, or being flat out inconsiderate when they would make plans, make it seem like they liked a guy, agreed on a time and place, and either cancelled or just never showed up. The fact that women get away with that behavior (which is more likely due to the sheer number of options they have than anything a specific man did wrong), and dating experts say it's somehow men's fault, as if women are Gods, so nothing they do is wrong, including completely leading a decent man on, is the biggest proof of men's weak social power relative to a woman. This is true of just '10's, but even '6's and '7's (i actually don't like rating girls by numbers because it usually excludes how they are personality wise, and that is pretty important to me for attraction). I told female friends they have it so, so much easier in dating than men in terms of initial interest. I'm not in terrible shape, I'm 34, slightly balding, and I make over $135,000 a year in annual gross income. I've debated to kill myself many times because I'm so sick of going through life alone, and seeing women with men in public, enjoying themselves, and on social media. But I don't want to disappoint my family and having a job gives me some purpose in life - but it is so depressing to know for a fact that nothing will ever change, except your savings and your experience at work. I cannot, for the life of me, get a date with a girl I like. I agree that Los Angeles is the toughest dating market around. We don't just go through rejections, we go through flakes, brutal ones. Girls SUGGESTING that you hang out, giving you their number, and you go for it, and they still bail on your you. I've had girls who enthusiastically say they would love to go out with me disappear at the last minute. I've never felt the need to pull an Elliott Rodgers, but when women complain to me about the struggles they have in dating (too many dates this week, too many messages in their inbox), I'm not gonna lie - I really, really resent it alot, and I'm pretty bitter about it. I try not to resent, and put myself out there again, get shot down, usually in a rude way, never polite, and I think to myself "as much as I don't want to believe it, I'm right. Women have a total advantage in dating - the ability to be reactive in the dating process, and the benefit of initial interest in spades, which is typically what leads to sustained interest." Anytime the topic comes up of who has it tougher in terms of just getting a date, which is the most important step to getting sex, and/or a relationship, a step that many of us guys never got to take in the youngest years of our life, I tend to aggressively defend the notion that women have it super, super easy, and need to stop whining about it. Dating coaches who tried to say otherwise really earned my scorn. One dating coach I read about had the nerve to stay women can't approach men, that's the advantage men have. I found this one of the most laughable falsehoods I've ever seen perpetuated to show "see women have it hard too!", and in response, posted a youtube article of a decent looking women cold approaching men, with nice responses across the board, even when rejected. If a hot woman gets 100 messages, all she has to do is delete the ones that suck, respond to the ones she likes, and messages guys she likes, at least 50% will respond to go out on a date. If a girl gets dumped by a boyfriend, she can go out with her friends for girls night out, dance the night away, reject a shitload of guys after getting free drinks to remind herself she has still 'got it.' Can you say the same about a guy? No way. Girls get off on attention so often at the expense of a guy it boggles my mind, especially in Southern California. Women have no idea what is like to be completely unnoticed and unknown by the opposite sex. Any woman can lose weight, doll herself up, post selfies, and have hundreds of guys banging down the door, in real life, or online. A man needs to be really fit, really tall, really wealthy, chiseled face, full head of hair, the correct ethnicity, rock star personality, just to get a date and not get flaked on. That's my perception anyway. Thanks for writing though Black Dragon, I am quite entertained by your posts.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-07 01:55:07
@Johnny Doe I agree with most of that. It's a pessimistic outlook but it's mostly spot on. It has gotten alot harder, and is getting harder every day. Obviously it's still possible to have success, but the amount of time/effort required is increasing.
The threshold for guys to do that is considerably higher than it was before TinderEveryone is feeling this. Nightclubs/bars have become alot harder because you're now competing up against every male within 20 miles. Why even go home with a guy in the bar when she can just find a perfect looking male model to meet up with afterwards on Tinder. this is exactly what alot of girls are doing too, get guys to buy them drinks in the bar, and then swipe some Chad on tinder who's at home sitting on his couch. There's a strong correlation between the rise of Tinder and the rise of pissed off men, see here for proof: and
We don’t just go through rejections, we go through flakes, brutal ones.Yes, the tougher the market the more flakes there'll be. We all experience flakes but they increase as your SMV level goes down and the where the SMV level of your male competition is higher. The problem with LA is you're competing up against actual celebrities, and men with serious, serious money and connections. Of course she's going to flake on you if a better option comes along or if she's been invited to some A-List party in the meantime, and when these guys are running huge harems of girls it's going to make it alot tougher for everyone else. Yes, you can still get laid even there, and yes we're talking about extremes (the hottest girls in the toughest markets), but it's definitely getting tough, and men are feeling it more and more, including the flake epidemic: http://www.rooshv.com/women-are-killing-the-golden-goose We had ALOT of issues getting guys dates with attractive women in LA online. It was brutal. I know alot of us in the manosphere are overly pessimistic, but that's because alot of us are coming from a position where we're seeing things get worse and worse for men. Things were reasonably tough 10 years ago, having a harem of young hot women was never easy, but its even tougher nowadays. Response rates online are plummeting; good looking, confident men are resorting to PAYING girls for dates etc.
Cousteau 2016-04-07 06:18:38
Its true that hot women in the USA are given way too much attention, free stuff, privileges etc. just by virtue of being hot. However, I think its important for us guys to remember that woman really do have to deal with crap that we can't even imagine. For a woman to have sex , she has to take a penis inside of her body from a person who is usually much physically stronger than her. To a certain extent she has to submit physically to a man. If things go wrong with birth control, she will have that guy's baby inside of her and be stuck with it for the next 18 years or have to go through the trauma of abortion. High flake rates are the result of both too many options but also women being careful (rightfully so in my opinion). Make a woman feel excited and safe at the same time and you will be able to get with that woman. @Johny Doe, you need to travel to a country where men have the advantage in the sexual market place. It will change everything for you. Finally, one of my current girls (20) lives in Isla Vista and has dragged me there a couple of times. I'm 44 by the way:) There are tons of super easy 5s-7s there. They party hard and are pretty much willing to get with any young guy who is not psychotic or really ugly. Unlike most places in Southern California, it is an easy place for average young guys to get laid. Eliot Rogers must have come off as a really psychotic jerk.
Johnny doe 2016-04-07 08:34:38
Cousteau, Thanks for the feedback and support @blackdragon, is there any truth to what I'm saying, or am I just a frustrated loser with no game?
Blackdragon 2016-04-07 10:21:31
But alot of the manospherians preaching this are coming from a place where we already have years of game experience and confidence behind us. We’re coming from a place where we don’t even feel rejection or nerves or any of that stuff. We’ve been on more dates in a year than most guys go on in their entire lives. So of course we’re preaching this.Doesn't mean they're not wrong. They still are. Getting laid is about confidence, outcome independence, game, and work. Good looks and money help, a lot, but they aren't required, unless you live in one of these truly difficult areas, in which case you should move instead of sitting around and bitching about it, which is what I see too many manosphere guys doing (including several guys in this thread). Captain above is a great example. He lived in a more difficult area, and instead of crying like a bitch, he moved, and how he's getting laid and happy. It also sounds like he upped his appearance and game, which all men should do regardless of women.
Blackdragon 2016-04-07 10:35:13
Johnny doe, your entire comment is hyper-irrational. I didn't say you're necessarily wrong, I said you're being irrational. Your entire outlook is "Boo hoo women suck isn't this terrible I guess I'm screwed." You think you can't get laid. Yes you can. It takes time and effort and work. I put in this work, and I didn't like it either. You can put in the work too. You think you can't reduce flaking. Yes you can. I have an entire chapter in one of my books about how to reduce flaking. It works. (I said reduce, not eliminate.) Just because it's women's "fault" doesn't mean you have zero control over it. You do. You think it was easier for guys to get laid before Tinder. This is bullshit, as I've described many times before. Normal, everyday guys in the 1980s had huge, and I mean huge challenges getting laid. I know. I was there, not getting laid. All you want to talk about his who's fault it is. I don't care who's fault it is. I only care about results. That's why I'm happy and you're not. The fact you want to kill yourself clearly shows you're not looking at this objectively. I strongly suggest you seek counseling before seeking out any more dating coaching. The majority of your problems are internal to you, not out there with women. They're all fixable problems, and you can achieve sex and happiness with women, with time and work, if you want it bad enough. Or, you can keep complaining on manosphere sites and guys like George will pat you on the back and tell you that you're right and there's nothing you can do about it, and you can sink deeper into depression. The choice is yours.
Johnny doe 2016-04-07 10:47:23
@blackdragon I didn't mean to say you said I was wrong - I was genuinely asking. And just to clarify, I wasn't referring to intercourse, I was referring to just going on a date at all with an attractive woman. Thank you very for the reply.
joelsuf 2016-04-07 11:21:37
I’m thinking in the 1950s girls did not flake on guys because they had 1000s of readily accessible suitors available online and on their smartphone.Wanna know WHY they didn't flake on guys? They COULDN'T!! Its because for both them and guys, their dates were fucking arranged by their parents. Cold approaching wasn't a thing either, that wasn't even a thing during the sexual revolution in the 1970s. Before the 1990s, it was ALL social circle, for BOTH sexes. NO ONE had control except your folks (in the 1950s) and your buddies (1960s-1990s). Cold approaching was very much seen as an extremely creepy thing to do and was very much stigmatized. Returning back to the 1950s would straight up shut down the love and sex lives of nearly everyone in the west. That's just how it is. Most FAs like yourself (and ME back when I was in high school) think like this because they are just blinded by anger towards the opposite sex. But they don't know what they are wishing for. Returning to those ways would pretty much seal your fate, as your folks probably wouldn't want you to carry on their bloodline (this happened before the 1960s as well). You make nearly five times more than me yet are only about a year older, yet I get laid (with meh looking chicks but they still "count," despite what most manospherians say). You have WAY more resources than me and you are using none of them. You not getting any action isn't a chick's fault. Like BD says, you should probably get some counseling before getting any more "dating coaching" or even developing your love life further. You sound like me when I was in high school, and trust me, someone in their 30s sounding like a sexually frustrated 16 year old is not a good look no matter how much money you make. SOOOO, you have two choices: 1) Keep hating chicks for having more "choices" in love and sex and go nowhere, 2) Go for chicks are more matched up to your level of attractiveness while building your way up to more attractive chicks by working on your own attractiveness (which is what I do).
If you think making 50k a year is ‘having money’ in the eyes of western females… I’ve got some bad news for you.Well I was just analyzing his general level of attractiveness across the board. So yeah I know its not a lot, but that's why you have to work on your game, looks, and status. This way you aren't relying on ONE thing to get chicks. I mean I make barely $20k a year, but look above average and am extremely charismatic and relate to people very intimately very quickly. I'm also very well spoken. Also the place I live is full of equally broke southern chicks who like the simple life. And my competition is mostly betas who act like alpha 1s. So everything balances out.
joelsuf 2016-04-07 11:33:59
Eliot Rogers must have come off as a really psychotic jerk.He WAS. I remember saying this exact comment back when he did youtube videos months before he did what he did. I said "hey man, I've been there, you sound almost exactly like I did when I was 22 lol. Have you talked to anyone about this, like a therapist or something? Also no one is judging you for not being sexually active, literally no one cares. It might be a blow to your ego, but you should try to get chicks who aren't as attractive. Also no one owes you anything, chicks aren't asking you to be all nice and whatever, they should earn that. You can be friendly and stuff to them, but until they win you over that's about it. I'm on your side, man." He then blocked me from making any comments on his videos, marked my comment as spam, then went on MY channel and called me a PUA Scammer who should die. The manosphere (particularly PUAhate, wizardchan, and Return of Kings) pretty much told him how to act. He literally thought there was a conspiracy against him and because he wasn't doing anything productive in his life, those thoughts became his lifestyle, he felt threatened, and thus he killed people.
joelsuf 2016-04-07 11:41:03
Some girls will like you for your look and some girls will not. That’s just the way it is. I still don’t harbor resentment towards girls who rejected me. I just accept it, move on to the next girl.Yeah, with what I'm doing, I'm just kinda working my way up. Starting with meh looking chicks, and then slowly progressing to better looking chicks. I was in a real pissy and stressed out mood when I started this thread a few days ago cuz I was getting flaked by a fairly attractive chick. But I found a "replacement" for her now, and I'll be seeing my meh looking FB in about a month so I'm good lol. Its still hard for me to get over the trauma of being so brutally rejected by hotter chicks in my youth, its like I was nonverbally told "you can never have attractive chicks." I'm working on eliminating mindset that as well.
Shanghai Bobby 2016-04-07 14:22:02
Jesus Christ this thread got a shit tonne of replies! Look Glute, in short, I'm just giving you my experience from my times in APAC, and times in East Europe/Europe. Every time I go overseas, I always tag much hotter chicks than I do back home or countries similar to home. In terms of rich people being assholes, I think you misread. The people I know, who've become rich, have grown extremely short tempered and arrogant since becoming rich. I'm not saying every rich person is an asshole. I'm saying that people who become rich quickly have a higher likelihood of turning into an asshole. Back when I was in New Zealand, I lived with two good friends, and none of us went after local girls. It was simply a fact that a hot girl from NZ would indeed be more work and be bitcher than a foreign girl of equal caliber. This brings me back to the original point; why bother going for something that's 3 x as much work, but no more extra value for the extra effort put in?? I will reiterate that I can't comment on USA, but from UK, Australia and NZ, a local 8 will be 3x more work than a foreign 8. I'm not saying you can't fuck a local 8, but why would you waste the extra effort for the same gains? It seems counter intuitive...
Kryptokate 2016-04-07 16:38:17
I think it's hilarious that "red pill" theory posits that women only want men with higher SMV, when every guy on this thread (except joelsurf) is complaining because he can't pull chicks that are higher than him in SMV. The 1-10 scale is retarded because it's related to ideal attractiveness that doesn't actually exist and doesn't take into account the actual population of humans that you are competing with and for and where they're distributed. A better method is to (hypothetically) gather up 1,000 or 10,000 random people in a given area and then put them in line from best to worst looking. Then figure out where someone falls in that line. And then expect to get someone who is roughly in the same spot in the line that you are. Instead, Wolf is complaining because he's in the top 1%, yet he can only get top 1% women and he wants top .0001% women. Johnny is complaining because he wants chicks in the top 10% when he's probably only in the top 50%. Joelsurf adjusted his standards to get women who are roughly in the same spot in line as he is, and he's doing fine and seems content and you all are piling on him for not being deluded. The only thing I can think is that the media has seriously distorted men's ideas by making them think that the "average" "not terrible" "not ugly" guy can and should get a "hot" girl. And the more a guy has spent time shacked up inside watching tv/movies/internet/videogames rather than living in reality, the more delusional about this he becomes. I can tell you that this is NOT how girls think. I have been around chicks swiping through Tinder and gossiping about it a million times and I can tell you that no women expect or want to go on a date with a guy who is not her equivalent on the percentage scale. Girls will also swipe no on a guy who is too hot though. Women in general are very aware of where they fit in the looks distribution and expect men to be in that same percentile, with the exception of really materialistic or striving girls who have more golddigger type tendencies. The typical woman who gets propositioned by a man who is out of shape, 20 years older, and way less attractive will react just exactly how you would react if a woman who is out of shape, 20 years older, and way less attractive than you hit on you -- offense and disgust, maybe pity if you're a real bleeding heart. I know that's not how you guys want it to be, but I am telling you that is how it is. Yes, there are a few examples of couples where a hot girl is with an ugly/average guy, but they are very, very rare outside of TV and movies. And cities that have a congregation of the wealthiest men in the world with the most beautiful women in the world (NY/LA). But everywhere else, it is vanishingly rare. I see those couples about as often as I see couples with a hot guy and average girl, which is to say, almost never. The vast, vast majority of people pair up with others who are equivalent to them on the looks scale. Manosphere guys can bitch all they want about not being able to get chicks who are hotter (on the relative, percentile distribution based scale) than they are, but that is not going to change anything. Funny that manosphere theory preaches that women all try to mate up when the clear OKCupid data shows that it's MEN who all message the top 20% good looking women regardless of their own looks, while women message guys who are on their own level. Men trying to line-jump on the attractiveness percentage scale just becomes amplified on Tinder because it's totally looks-based, and the internet revolts because life does not look like TV. If guys stopped trying to get with chicks who are in the 95th looks percentile when they're only in the 60th percentile, all of these complaints would disappear and their success rates would go up. Clearly many men prefer to bash their heads against the wall in frustration trying to get things that, based on both statistics and common sense, they are unlikely to ever get, while holding out hope til the day they die, rather than being content and happy with what's possible. Kind of an American thing to do.
Duke 2016-04-07 17:05:21
It's funny how KK, a woman (must admit I have had my doubts that she is really a woman) seems to have more logic than a bunch of "smart red pill" guys. Lol, at Wolf not being able to get Victoria Secret models or whatever tier of women it is he can't get. The manosphere would likely not exist if men just realized: if you want hot girls put in the numbers and hard work that comes with it OR settle for women of your attractiveness or lower which will probably still involve work. I must admit though, it must be rough to be a man of average in looks, height and income and see hot women around that they can't get and or don't want them. But, as long as they just rant on the internet and don't start shooting people, than I say keep complaining and commiserating.
Johnny Doe 2016-04-07 17:53:34
@Kryptokate Please don't put words in my mouth. Nowhere did I say in my post I go for girls who are in the top 10 percent of looks. A girl I met on Tinder was absolutely NOT a bombshell, but I thought she was cute. She said she would love to go out with me and we texted each other, and she asked when we could go out, we named a time and place, and she just disappeared two days prior. Another girl I met was on the elevator going up to work. We made small talk, And somehow, she found my work email and emailed me when I got to my desk. We met for coffee, I thought we had a great time, she gave me a big hug at the end, and said we absolutely needed to do this again. She also was not a bombshell, but she was cute. Short, petite, cute face is my type. The next time I asked her to go out, she disappeared in the middle of our email exchange, then a week later I emailed Her again, just leaving my number if she wanted to hang out. She did get back to me a week later, didn't acknowledge blowing me off, said she was leaving to New York, and to be a buddy, not a stranger. The one single reason I asked her out was because I thought I had a chance - since she found my work email and hit me up. These are the type of experiences I have, and yes I do want a decent looking girl, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. In a sense, I think your response presupposes that women never lead men on just For their own sake. You almost completely ignored or failed to address situations where GIRLS suggest to guys they should hang out but bail on their own plans. Believe me it happens more than you think. @blackdragon I read your other article about how it's harder for a man to get laid by an attractive woman than 20 years ago. It was a great article, and I'd like to ask - is it harder for a man to get a date with a decent looking/attractive woman, i.e. She actually shows up than it was 20 years ago? I want to be clear that in my initial post never once did I discuss getting laid or sex, I was referring strictly to going out on that first date with someone you fancy, nothing more.
joelsuf 2016-04-07 18:36:28
the more a guy has spent time shacked up inside watching tv/movies/internet/videogames rather than living in reality, the more delusional about this he becomes.tbh, you could have mic dropped right there. That was ME in my teens up until 23 or so. Combine those things with pornography and, once again, the PUA "hook em" line of "you can get ALL KINDS of chicks!!" and the result is very clear. You'll wind up sexually frustrated and meanwhile I'm hitting up the chicks that you ignore and laugh in your face. But then in your warped little mind those chicks "don't count." Well which one of us is sticking their dick into a vagina? lol.
The typical woman who gets propositioned by a man who is out of shape, 20 years older, and way less attractive will react just exactly how you would react if a woman who is out of shape, 20 years older, and way less attractive than you hit on you — offense and disgustThis is another thing manospherians just DO NOT understand, this concept of "looksmatching." In their warped little minds they actually expect good results if they try to get with chicks who are way more attractive than them or even slightly more attractive. It doesn't work that way. That would be like me trying to deadlift 600 lbs. I can't do that yet, but I CAN deadlift about 350. So instead of giving up because I can't deadlift 600 lbs, I'll keep going for 350 and slowly move up and up until I get to that 600. Or maybe I'll be happy with 400 or something. Also guys overestimate their looks. There are more decisive qualities that women desire than men. For example, for me, she can have a beat up face, must have decent teeth (which means I don't really date chicks who smoke) and I don't really care about weight too much but her stomach can't stretch out further than her breasts or behind. But to women, a good looking guy absolutely must have a handsome face, be taller than her, probably 10%-20% body fat, and decent muscle structure. If you do not have any of those three qualities, then no, attractive chicks will view hanging out with as some kind of annoying thing they "have to" do. If you have one (like I do), you might get lucky with a random chick every now and then. And so on and so forth. I've dated attractive chicks before but could never have sex with one. I'll admit that this is my fault because I didn't push for it? Why didn't I push for it? Because I didn't think it was possible! That is in no way a chicks' fault. It is MINE for not going for it and risking getting shot down.
Kryptokate 2016-04-07 19:21:21
@ joelsurf When I was right out of college, I worked for a few years at an internet company that was populated by typical nerdy, spergy type young people who spent all their time outside of work at home playing video games (not dissing these people because I'm kind of like that myself). But what was fascinating about it is that most of those guys were virgins or close to it, and I have never in my life met guys with such absolutely ridiculous, picky, totally removed from reality standards about what women should look like. Their standards were FAR higher than those of the popular jocks and frat guys at my college who actually got laid. I used to sit and listen to them absolutely shred and pick apart celebrities and models about what was wrong with them and who was hot or not....all women they could never in a million years get. To this day, I've never met guys who had expectations that were so totally divorced from reality because all of their "experience" with women came from movies/porn/TV, and none in real life or actual social situations. And I am pretty sure that kind of guy constitutes 90% of the manosphere. @ Johnny Not trying to pick on you. I assumed you were shooting above your league because you described yourself as being in "not terrible" shape and I assumed you were looking for a girl in better shape than "not terrible". The flaking is bad and I think the reason it happens isn't so much purposely leading guys on as that something else got her attention. Everyone is distracted nowadays and has a million avenues of stimulation and everyone is increasingly flaky. Still not an excuse for just not showing up. Canceling before a date seems acceptable though -- no one has an obligation to maintain interest in someone they don't even know, as long as you give them polite notice of cancelation. And nowadays people have very little capacity to maintain interest in ANYTHING, with so much competing for our attention. Hell, Netflix and the internet are competing for people's attention. Also, I'm sure LA is worse. I'd never live there. And part of the reason is precisely because of the superficial, status-obsessed culture. I don't know how anyone could stand that. I'd agree with BD and say if you don't like the situation where you live, you should move. I've never heard of an epidemic of flaking where I live, which is a city, just not a huge city like LA .
Johnny Doe 2016-04-07 19:48:23
@Kryptokate No offense taken, I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions I commonly see thrown out about flaking since I've been on the receiving end of it quite a few times. I would understand if the girl is clearly giving verbal cues she is no longer interested in talking, and gives out a number just to make you go away, but if you have totally vibed, maybe made out, and she is verbally saying she really wants to see you, and then pulls a flake - that shit fucks with your radar because then you do start seeing yourself as unattractive, and incapable of getting a woman to commit her time to you over maybe 1-2 hours where you probably are gonna pay for the activity anyway. How can you see yourself as attractive if you never go on dates, get rejected, and get flaked on? And not just by '9's and '10s', but girls who are varying in levels of attractiveness? To an extent, when I socialize with family and friends, and they point out why don't you have someone in your life, and it doesn't seem like women have this same problem, it's fucking embarrassing. And the bitterness starts to seep in when everyone chants 'You just have to try harder! harder! harder' when it really feels like its not your fault, you just can't compete with the exponential amount of choice any woman has who is decent looking (NOT hot, decent looking) and up. Even your own post seems to suggest that's why women cannot show up on a date. And if you see other guys out all the time with women, then you know some guys are worthy of women's time - you just aren't one of them. There was no polite cancellation from the Tinder girl btw, just going from we are meeting up, I would love to meet with you etc, to ghosting. Personally, I've always not liked it because I feel it sets up this unsaid dynamic - its hard to feel relaxed when you aren't sure if someone is going to show up or not, and in away, it really sucks all of the fun out of the process. Blackdragon definitely handles it better than I have in the past. You are correct, I am not in terrible shape, I am not in great shape. Some things cannot be measured by BMI. I'd be considered pretty lean if i was 30-40 lbs less, but right now, I could probably do 8-10 pullups, with ease. And I can bang out a 100 pushups in about 5-ish minutes, and I'm no slouch at cardio either. I am definitely attracted to women who are in shape, though its certainly not the only thing I'm attracted to. And I have goals to get in optimal over the next year, just for myself more than anything else - its going to be an interesting journey. Even when I was in top, top shape in my younger years, it never was to look good for women, it was more about just feeling good. These days I feel slightly less hopeless when I work out a bit before going to work. I don't go for girls I'm not attracted to because, to put it real bluntly, I have fucked hotter women in the past, and I probably wouldn't even be able to get it up with a girl I'm not attracted to. If I could fuck anyone, sure my life would be easier. But I lost my virginity to a fairly attractive women, and I've slept with a few attractive women here and there's no real turning back from that now. Plus I'd like to think the security and future I could provide to a woman is of some value.
wolfofgeorgestreet 2016-04-07 20:05:13
I think it’s hilarious that “red pill” theory posits that women only want men with higher SMV, when every guy on this thread (except joelsurf) is complaining because he can’t pull chicks that are higher than him in SMV. ... Wolf is complaining because he’s in the top 1%, yet he can only get top 1% women and he wants top .0001% women
Lol, at Wolf not being able to get Victoria Secret models or whatever tier of women it is he can’t get.Guys, the title of the article was 'Why you can't get hot girls'. I'm not complaining that I can't get VS models, I'm complaining that guys like BD are telling me the reason I can't is because I resent them. Whereas I'm saying the reason I can't is because I'm not rich enough or famous. So you're actually agreeing with me. Likewise alot of the other posters in this thread you are pointing to whose SMV may not be as high are actually agreeing with you too, and saying that the reason they can't get hot girls is because they aren't high enough SMV. I agree with Kate to get hot girls you have to have higher SMV than them, that includes a combination of looks, wealth, status and game. Many guys in the pua/manosphere are angry because they've been lied to, they're told things like work on your game, confidence, and don't resent hot women and you'll be able to get them too, all I'm saying is that, that stuff only gets you so far. No amount of that stuff is going to land me VS models, but money can. Just like no amount of confidence and game will get a guy who's ugly and poor regular hot girls. Maybe if he puts in massive numbers, gets lucky and find's a chick who's drunk enough etc.
joelsuf 2016-04-07 21:21:49
Their standards were FAR higher than those of the popular jocks and frat guys at my college who actually got laid.If there is ANY red pill that deserves being dropped, its that the popular jocks and frat guys have criminally low standards for what their smv is. They will literally have sex with anything that moves, animals and other guys included (because initiations; frat life is the one aspect of college that is not only accurate to Hollywood, it's WORSE lol).
things like work on your game, confidence, and don’t resent hot women and you’ll be able to get them too, all I’m saying is that, that stuff only gets you so far.I'd argue that it makes you even worse, especially if you do the gimmicky PUA crap, especially if its from Roosh or RSD. What DOES work is knowing your place, getting with chicks who are on your level, and going from there. THAT is how to build confidence. And look, some guys are not meant to get with attractive chicks ever. But if PUAs said that, they would all be out of a job.
joelsuf 2016-04-07 21:32:31
typical nerdy, spergy type young people who spent all their time outside of work at home playing video games (not dissing these people because I’m kind of like that myself). But what was fascinating about it is that most of those guys were virgins or close to it, and I have never in my life met guys with such absolutely ridiculous, picky, totally removed from reality standards about what women should look like.Oh yeah, that was me (probably worse as I was unmotivated to do anything for pretty much my entire teens and early 20s) up until my dad got cancer and thought I was gay because I hadn't had sex yet. I was 23. A few months after he died, some big chick offered to have sex with me at a party she was throwing and I was like "meh, I may as well. I haven't been getting anywhere with anyone else, and I'd really like to have sex before 25." I think the reason I believe I can't get with attractive chicks is because I just don't feel attractive. Deep down I really dislike myself and all the stupid things I've done, all the years I've wasted either getting high or ODing on sleeping pills, playing video games and message board trolling. I can act it away irl but it doesn't last. Problem is, people can see right through it so they don't stick around. I don't blame them. The ones who are just as mentally wounded as me stay around. I need to work on this, I've needed to address this for a while now, I'll admit. I literally don't know where to begin tho 🙁
Blackdragon 2016-04-07 22:56:09
I’m complaining that guys like BD are telling me the reason I can’t is because I resent them.This article is for guys who don't fuck hot chicks. You already do, and are at an advanced level of game. Nor does this article have anything whatsoever to do with how to fuck the upper 0.01% of women, like Victoria Secret models. This article wasn't directed to you at all, in any way. You're being defensive for no reason.
Gluteus_Maximus 2016-04-08 00:42:35
@ joelsuf “I literally don’t know where to begin tho :(“ Bull fucking shit. I’ll give you a BIGASS hint: “But I don’t want to disappoint my family and having a job gives me some purpose in life – but it is so depressing to know for a fact that nothing will ever change, except your savings and your experience at work.” “Problem is, people can see right through it so they don’t stick around.” I won’t stick around anyways, and because I feel like it, I’ll do this this once. The fact that you say you don’t want to disappoint your family means there is something, something big, or several things that you want to do, a kind of person you want to be that WILL disappoint them. Do that or those things, and your women problem will fix itself. I GUARANTEE IT. Right now, you’re not the kind of guy that more attractive women naturally like. Women, especially hot women, want a MAN. Not a pussy. I don’t mean that as an insult, but as an actual position on the spectrum of Pussy to Badass (like positive and negative on mathematical xyz coordinate planes). Besides, I used to be a pussy myself. A MAN doesn’t give a shit about disappointing people ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES BETWEEN HIM AND WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. Call it what you like, a Man’s Mission, Purpose, Calling, Excitement, Passion, Bliss, Obsession, whatever the fuck. As a sidenote, people who say not to “follow your passion” are full of shit. Because when they propose their method, they’re basically describing the same thing – the distinction is: THEY DON’T DEFINE PASSION AS SOMETHING THAT CONTAINS CHALLENGE. They just use different fucking words. They tell you to work hard not realizing that to refine and follow your shit is challenging as fuck. The path of one's passion, purpose, calling, mission, whatever, is INHERENT of challenges. It’s like trying to run through the shallow water of the beach. You can’t. There’s resistance (CHALLENGE). The tide and whatever gravitational physics properties that are in that shit. You have to be like the fucking captain of a fucking boat on water. Imagine the water in front of the boat being displaced as the boat moves forward in the direction it chooses. It can go in any direction, but it only goes in the direction the Captain CHOOSES. The water will have no choice but to be displaced. That's how Life works. But if you're staying where you are, you ain't gonna see shit. You're gonna keep experiencing more or less the same. You’re choosing to play it safe and be a pussy (again, not an insult). And women find that BORING (to say the very least). They want a fucking Captain who’s “going somewhere.” Here’s the thing, you probably play or played a bunch of videogames. What you don’t realize is that getting good at a videogame, or several videogames are SKILLS. Knowing how to learn and get good at something is a SKILL IN AND OF ITSELF. (This is a starting point as to how to redefine things.) I say this precisely because… if you can learn and get proficient at one thing… that means… you can learn and get proficient at ANOTHER THING. Hell, if you got good at one kind of videogame, like FPS, and then got good at another kind of game, RPG, RTS, MOBA what the fuck did you think you just did?!?! You just have to learn how to direct that to what it is you want. This is why BD’s main thing is to get clear on your mission and follow it. It’s the big thing in his book. So to return full circle to: “But I don’t want to disappoint my family…” I don’t know what it is exactly, but whatever it is, if you want to be a musician, painter, daytrader, poker player… just do it and see where that takes you. Hell, if what you really want is to be a fucking pro E-Sports player, go ahead and do it. There are some hot (and talented) cosplayers and shit. Hell, Hollywood has been going full force into COMICS, Marvel, DC, Comic Con. You can be “nerdy” & cool. As an example, which I will end with: Just to use a famous person so we have a similar frame of reference: Chris Pratt left his family ("call to action") and went from a lowlife living in his van in Hawaii knocking door to door as a salesman, to being a low-level celebrity playing that retard Andy character, to being casted Lead Role in a Marvel AAA production blockbuster film as StarLord with Zoe Saldana (she’s making quite a name for herself and she’s hot and as an extra bonus is actually one of the more talented actresses), to being that fucking fun badass Jurassic Park raptor whisperer. Chris Pratt is NOT traditionally handsome at all. He doesn’t have chiseled features. His bodytype is naturally predisposed to getting chubby easily and quickly. BUT women I talk to describe him as a hot muscular super funny teddy bear. They fucking LOVE him. He also has the underdog charm. Because he clearly was one. He’s also fucking dorky but he owns it in a way where it’s cool. Outcome independence. Watch interviews of him and his cast for Guardians of the Galaxy. Hell, in most interviews, his dorkiness shines through. But with the GOTG interviews, you’ll see that Zoe Saldana fucking LOVES HIM. You’ll see that he downplays himself because he knows she fucking loves the shit out of him. He doesn’t even have to try. You can experience this, but probably not at the Hollywood level. And who cares about that. I don't use Hollywood actors as something or aspire to. I use it more as a way of "case studies" that are open for everyone to see and research. It's like being able to check out a book at the library. Or finding a resource that's made available for free to everyone on the public domain. If you put him up next to Tom Cruise… Tom Cruise is NOT funny. He’s more of a focused kind of guy. What I’m saying is, whatever it is that you have, you can play to your advantage. (Hell, Chris Pratt can’t play his position to its full capacity because he’s married, and I doubt it’s open. And the social resistance is more potent being more and more famous, so being openly open contains more risk. Risks we, as non-celebrities, have the luxury of more easily being able to take on.) Anyways, this is why BD has a great articles up on “Finding your Target Market” and good shit like that. Get a clearer grasp on your mission, the kind of girls you like, the kind of girls that like you… but the last two will fall more into place THE MORE YOU FOLLOW YOUR PURPOSE. You can worry about that other shit later. Just keep things fucking simple. And just focus on your purpose. Don’t worry about SMV and shit like that. They’re lagging indicators anyways. And thinking about those things will just overcomplicate things for you and you will feel too weighed down as if there are too many circumstances “out there” that you have to take control of, to do anything about it. So, no. Just keep things simple.
Gluteus_Maximus 2016-04-08 01:24:06
Also, keep in mind Zoe Saldana married an artist. Of all the kinds of men she has access to, she chose to be with a visual artist. A very metrosexual looking visual artist. And of the weird kind of art. Like straight up weird. And visual art is one of the least flashiest things ever. In most cases, you just fucking stand or sit down in a specific spot for hours and hours and move your hands. What I'm saying is, there will always be attractive hot women into all kinds of shit. So don't focus on them. Focus on the thing that attracts them like a beacon. (Assuming you don't just want golddiggers.) But also keep in mind societal programming traps i.e. traditional marriage, no prenup, children, unless you really want those things and go into it with your eyes wide open. Judging by your language, you're in a vulnerable spot. Don't just "fall in love" with the "first girl." That's where a site like BD comes into play.
Gil Galad 2016-04-08 08:09:39
I don't know if I'm alone in this, but I never considered VS models as top 0,01% or even top 1%. VS hates hips and boobs and the hourglass bodytype as much as Hollywood does, it seems, and to me banging even the prettiest ones would feel like eating a very small portion of something very tasty, because they're so skinny. Maybe one VS model out of five (I immediately think of Miranda Kerr) is a legit 9+, but take a random handful of them and dress them casually and show them to some guys without saying they're models: I'd bet you anything that some would be considered borderline ugly. The same goes in reverse: there's an insane number of girls next door, 7s or so, who would suddenly become "perfect tens" if they somehow rose to fame. I wonder if there isn't a better way, less circumstantial/more objective to find the non-famous top 0,01%. Maybe facebook beauties who get 500 likes per selfie from the starved betas.
Gluteus_Maximus 2016-04-08 09:23:54
Gil, I actually love that type. The smaller hips, modest-sized titties. Fucking love it. I've been with maybe a couple or so with Ds just to try and I just can't do it. L o l But I agree with the basis of what you're saying. Take off a hot woman's makeup and she looks fucking normal. She knows how to look in front of the camera. How far out to push her jaw. The angle of the shot. The forward tilt of her head. How loose to make her lips, her eyelids. You can teach any woman that shit. A lot of it is presentation. Look at Karlie Kloss. And then with no makeup. She's a former VS model. Even Sofia Vergara. Look up no makeup. Looks normal. Taylor Swift, oh my god. She needs the makeup. But it's exactly why I say hot is hot. No point in putting the higher ones up on a pedestal. What the fuck is a 9.3, 9.2, 9.4. Especially if she's just a model. I personally also look into what it is they do. Like ooooooh I love ballet dancers. Ya know what I'm sayin. It is about comfort level as well though, as in when you bring a girl who's like used to shopping for groceries at Von's and you bring her to a place like Bristol Farms, you can feel her "oh shit that's expensive" all over the place. If I were to upgrade a longer-term woman and trust her with the reaponsibility of cooking and buying groceries that I'm going to put into my body more than once, I don't want shitty ass pieces of meat, fake orange juice and shit.
Gil Galad 2016-04-08 09:46:56
Gluteus maximus: I agree, but it might be risky to call Sofia Vergara "normal", BD will kill you LOL
Johnny doe 2016-04-08 09:58:56
@gluteus Maximus When I said disappoint my family, I meant not to kill myself, not my line of work. My family wants me to get married like crazy crazy, but it's awkward to tell my folks I want to marry someone I'm very sexually attracted to, or not get married at all, because that hurts them a lot. I get what you are saying though.
Felix 2016-04-08 11:04:41
@Johnny doe I'm Asian. Chinese ethnicity. We also have family traditions. A long time ago I told my parents that my personal life was my life and I was going to live it the way I want to. I will talk to them but I will NOT do whatever they said because it is MY life. At some point you are going to have to decide who's opinion is more important. Yours or your family's. It's your life, you decide. I can tell you that only one decision will make you happy. Also you will have to decide at some point to tell people to fuck off. Again, it's your life, who gives a shit what other people think about you or what their opinions are. Even if it's your family. I told mine that if they didn't stop trying to interfere in my life, they were going to be out of my life, period. In the end, there is no real choice involved. If you live your life for someone else, sooner or later you will wake up. When you do, you will be extremely unhappy with yourself if you chose anybody other than you.
Kryptokate 2016-04-08 11:41:18
Agree with @ Felix. The older you get the less you will care about your family's opinion. Or at least, the more you will realize that parents will get over shit even if they're upset at first. Don't worry about their pressure on marriage, that's not even a big deal. Try telling your parents you will never have children! 🙂 But trust me, parents eventually get over everything because it's their kids...the rare few that don't are serious jerks and you shouldn't desire their high opinion anyway.
Blackdragon 2016-04-08 13:48:20
Even Sofia Vergara. Look up no makeup. Looks normal.Err. Rrrrrr... Arrrrrrrerrrrrr... EEERRRRRAAAAAHHHHHHH! <tears shirt> RAAAAAAAAHHHHHH! <turns into the Hulk> MMRRRRAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! BD SMASH STUPID GLUTEUS! BD LOVE LOUD COLOMBIAN WOMAN ON TV SHOW! BD LOVE BIG BOOBS! COLUMBIAN WOMAN WITH BIG BOOBS HAVE BD'S BABY! NO SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT HER! BD MAD NOW! BD SMASH! RRRRAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!
Duke 2016-04-08 14:15:47
I want to marry someone I’m very sexually attracted to, or not get married at all
Plus I’d like to think the security and future I could provide to a woman is of some value.@ Johnny Doe, I get the feeling these two quotes indicate that you are the typical provider who wants to please his hot wife and will do everything she says. Be cognizant of this and proceed with caution. I'm hoping for your sake you don't find this decent looking girl that "likes" you back and you end up in a TMM; where you will end up with 3-5 years "good" years, 3-5 mediocre ones, and then you have to decide to either divorce like BD did or drag it out another 10-15 years for the kids, that is if she lets you. Learn from BD's mistakes, don't make the same mistakes he made. Easier said than done of course.
joelsuf 2016-04-08 14:38:26
“But I don’t want to disappoint my family…”I said that? I don't remember saying that. I could give less than a shit about my family. I mean my mom has been around for the last decade or so, but I'm still gonna do whatever makes me happy as long as it isn't causing any harm to anyone or breaking the law. I do agree that if you are just going through the motions it makes you unattractive. But I literally don't care about anything, I've been shown that if you do care, its just gonna get taken away anyways (the 6 deaths of friends and family that I've endured over a 10 year period kinda showed this to me). Who knows, I'm probably really depressed and I don't know it or something lol
joelsuf 2016-04-08 14:51:14
Just keep things fucking simple. And just focus on your purpose.This makes sense, and I do have a couple of purposes. You mentioned video games, just so happens that I've been getting into speedrunning (beating a game in the fastest way possible as it implies). I'm very new at it and its really fun. I view bowling as a passion too but at the moment I feel pretty burnt out. Another thing is writing, but I have no idea where to start with publishing etc. I'm not the internet troll I used to be anymore, whose only "passion" was pissing people off. I'm not like that anymore, but it still comes out from time to time. Also I will admit that my nihilistic and fatalistic worldviews (which are pretty much the only views that make sense to me) have allowed me to be somewhat of a defeatist as of late. I think THAT is what others sense and I don't blame them if they don't want to stick around. And that's probably why I choose not to get with more attractive chicks, its cuz my depression issues kind of get in my own way.
Gil Galad 2016-04-08 15:52:19
@joelsuf: speaking of nihilism and fatalism, I do have that too, but people usually don't realize that about me until later. Other than the whole life-is-probably-meaningless thing (which I deal with relatively well), what occasionally gets me REALLY depressed is the realization that the way things are currently going, we will NEVER have a society that is truly based on reason. It's maddening because most of the stupid lies that people of both the left and the right believe in can be refuted rather easily, but it just won't work, and the laws and SP of tomorrow will come from the will of disturbed people who can't handle A+B if it hurts their feelings. Stuff like the lack of grand purpose or free will or whatever doesn't bother me much: all you have to do is just strongly identify with yourself as a being with desires and embrace them; besides, with tomorow's technology life is gonna get more interesting every year. What does get me close to suicidal is just how many truths we are perfectly capable of deducing but that will never stick with the majority, because modern PC has decided that nannying sensitive people is more important than truth seeking. I'll give you an example of my type of fatalism: "Dear vegan, I actually fully agree that ethically speaking, your diet is more legitimate than mine. But I just think that if there are billions of extraterrestrial worlds and possibly billions of universes popping up all the time, then there will always be stuff eating stuff, and your cause is not changing the grand scheme of things. You could tell me that applying this to humans would justify murder, but I'd reply that I know that very well, and the reason I don't kill isn't that I have some moral rule but just that I happen to have too much empathy to kill people. That's all." People with such a bleak worldview can be very outwardly nice (I am) and indistinguishable from idealists, as they may very well engage in altruistic causes (because they wish to, not because of a higher ideal they don't believe in), but it's true that you probably shouldn't reveal such a worldview to a hot chick on a first date ! I thought your problem might be a little similar, so I hope that was helpful.
joelsuf 2016-04-08 20:03:36
you probably shouldn’t reveal such a worldview to a hot chick on a first date !Yeah, I definitely don't do that.
PC has decided that nannying sensitive people is more important than truth seeking.You know, that used to bother me to the point where I would just not talk to anyone and just sit at the house doing nothing. But hell, if I have to play the game, I'll play the game. I'm not one of these raging tradcon strict MGTOW who thinks that all chicks are out to get men. But I'm not a white knighting SJW either, I tend to make fun of both sides lol.
Other than the whole life-is-probably-meaningless thing (which I deal with relatively well), what occasionally gets me REALLY depressed is the realization that the way things are currently going, we will NEVER have a society that is truly based on reason.See for me its the reverse: The life-is-meaningless thing has been physically proven to me (through death of friends and family). The fact that we will never have a society that is truly based on reason, I've known that when I was in the single digits. I think the problem for me is that I have accepted both as personal truth and now use that worldview to attempt to make sense of everything. Because of this, I literally treat everyone the same and I've been complemented on this. But when people learn (or rather interpret) that Nihilism, Fatalism, and entropy drive me, that's when they run for the hills. And its like I said, I don't blame them. Alright this is becoming more a discussion on existentialism now, I need to stop. Final thought (more like never ending penultimate thought) on this, is that I don't believe I can get more attractive chicks, probably because I don't feel like I can relate to them at all anymore.
Anon. 2016-04-09 01:42:09
what occasionally gets me REALLY depressed is the realization that the way things are currently going, we will NEVER have a society that is truly based on reasonI despise that, too. I hear of something bad happening and I’m enraged, but then I realize that much worse things happen on a grand scale every day and that’s even more... unpleasant. For example, a political prisoner might get an unjust sentence, but regular innocent people go to jail all the time through incompetence or indifference of authorities. But why should we let that shape our lives? There are reasonable people still, not billions but just millions, and technology makes it exceedingly easy to get in touch with them. Why should we care about all other people that don’t care about themselves? We should be selfish and just go after our own goals (preferably not at others’ expense though). As for attractive chicks and ability to relate to them, that sounds like a scientific problem, being intimidated by something one can’t yet comprehend. And I’m sure that’s how it should be approached, figuring it out through study. It’s not like they’re evil aliens from some galaxy far, far away.
Felix 2016-04-09 01:46:27
@Anon You're NOT going to figure it out by studying. You figure it out by reading BD's books or any of the PUA materials and then going to talk to girls. You can't relate to girls using reason. The reason is that they're mostly illogical so reason fails. You have to experience girls and let your emotional side connect with them. There is an old saying in PUA circles. Don't change her mind, change her mood. Think about it.
joelsuf 2016-04-09 11:06:42
It’s not like they’re evil aliens from some galaxy far, far away.Hunt them in South Florida for like a week, or in pretty much any college town for a weekend. That'll change your mind real quick.
Anon. 2016-04-09 15:33:22
You’re NOT going to figure it out by studying. You figure it out by reading BD’s books or any of the PUA materials and then going to talk to girls.That looks quite like study to me, theory and practice!
You have to experience girls and let your emotional side connect with them.But this looks like flying blind, and this is what most men do.
There is an old saying in PUA circles. Don’t change her mind, change her mood. Think about it.Who said anything about changing her mind? Just understanding it is tricky enough : ) But thanks to people like BD, at least the latter is doable! By the way, no actions suggested by BD in his ebooks involve changing anything about her. This is what I like most about his system, it never goes against the flow, it just avoids all the sharp rocks.
Blackdragon 2016-04-09 15:42:43
By the way, no actions suggested by BD in his ebooks involve changing anything about her. This is what I like most about his system, it never goes against the flowCorrect. 100% of everything in my dating system and my relationship structures accepts women for how they are, works within that system, and don't involve attempting to change them in any way. It's a far easier way to do it. Trying to change women (or a woman) is the path of the Alpha Male 1.0, and it always leads to problems and drama.
Johnny Doe 2016-04-10 00:15:13
@Duke Believe me, I've got alot of personal issues to work on before marriage. Insecurity and low self-esteem for not having seriously dated anyone for over 5 years now, and before that, 6 years of being single. I have lots of trouble visualizing a woman I am attracted to ever wanting to go out with me on a date, let alone fuck. Anytime I see couples in public I just wonder why I'm not good enough to be a guy a woman would want to spend her time with. Feels like I can't compete with the hundreds of other guys who want her, her friends, her family, her work. I just don't factor in there at all. I'm not focused on getting laid, you got to be able to get girls to go out with you first. My issue is not WHEN i get to date and WHEN I get to marry, its IF i get to date, and IF i get to marry. I'm pretty certain I'm not ever going to get married. Most guys get married in their late 20s, after they've fucked around a bit, then find the One. I was single throughout most of my 20s, late 20s was grad school, spent most of my early 30s establishing myself as a high-income earner (which never once translated into a single date with someone I liked - girls did NOT change after I told them I was a professional and if income came up, that I made over $130,000 a year). If you make it all the way to 34 single, girls just think you're weird for a lack of experience as opposed to no baggage. I pretty much missed out on all of the key times in life you're supposed have serious/casual relationships with women.
joelsuf 2016-04-10 03:49:58
Anytime I see couples in public I just wonder why I’m not good enough to be a guy a woman would want to spend her time with. Feels like I can’t compete with the hundreds of other guys who want her, her friends, her family, her work. I just don’t factor in there at all.This sounds eerily familiar to someone BD talked about in this very blog post. I really hope you understand that the ball is in your court in this.
I pretty much missed out on all of the key times in life you’re supposed have serious/casual relationships with women.And? So did I! And so did SEVERAL others. BD himself admits that he was what, 23 when he had sex for the first time? Who gives a shit? Plug yourself out of sex-negative toxic masculinity and thinking there is some sort of time limit in all this. But if you wanna play "loser hardball" with how you "missed out," take a look at my history (starting with age 11, since IMO most US boys start thinking of chicks at that age: I mean that's when I jerked off for the first time myself lol) 11-14: Wanted to get with chicks but they weren't really on my mind and didn't really think it was logistically possible to date them. Got "picked on" by some amazon Hispanic chick who would grab my dick every day in English class. 15-18: Developed a crush on a cheerleader in high school, and for the most part ignored other chicks who were throwing themselves at me. Even if I wanted to hook up with them, I couldn't, because my dad didn't approve of them because they weren't Jewish (and neither was the cheerleader). I had sex for the first time at 16, but I didn't "want" to do it, if you know what I mean. The cheerleader eventually has enough of me creeping me out and I nearly get expelled for "stalking" (BIG secondary effect of "rape culture" right here, people; actual rape victims suffer in silence but those with shitty aspie game like myself back then get punished? Seems legit). 19-23: Still dateless. Attractive chicks are still throwing themselves at me, but I have no idea how to get them out on dates. Also I foolishly still think I have a chance with the cheerleader lol. Me and her wind up going to the same college where she tells me directly (albeit politely) that she wants nothing to do with me. Meanwhile, a Hispanic girl who I met freshman year is begging me to take her virginity but I foolishly put her in the friendzone BECAUSE she's a virgin (looking back this actually may have been a good idea tho, cuz most of my married buddies took their wives' virginities). 24-25: Go on a few dates, with a few attractive chicks who I went to high school with, but now I have no idea how to make a move. I *actually* lose my virginity to a fat chick at a party a couple of months after my dad dies. Months BEFORE he died, he thought I was gay. 26-30: Because of 5 deaths of friends or family in a two year span, I become extremely nihilistic about everything and refuse to go to therapy. I -attempt- to go back to school and finish and chicks are still throwing themselves at me, I now know how to get them on dates and make proper moves, but my nihilism doesn't let me. I go through a 5(!!!!!) year dry spell because of this. The same Hispanic chick I was talking about previously wanted to have sex but I didn't want to so she perma friendzoned me that's how low my sex drive was. I tell one of my co-workers this and he immediately lets me get with one of his FBs, a 40+ year old fat chick. That same week, my mom advertises one of her co-workers (another fat chick) to me and tells me that she has been facebook stalking me. Me and her meet and we have sex within 5 hours. Then she tosses me to the side because I told her that I've been through a lot of shit. 31-current: I've gone on probably 30 different first dates with chicks of all attractiveness levels for my age but for some reason only being able to have sex with the meh, fat, or ugly looking ones. And that's with me spending like 10 minutes a week spam messaging chicks online so I'm not even putting any effort in. And that is WITH "hibernation" periods (every winter since 2013). AND I'm in worse shape than you, much worse. 5'8'' and 220 lbs, I can do like 2 and a half pull ups, maybe. On a good day lol. AND I have a bunch of college debt (and STILL not done, cuz massive depression + college = several visits to Flunkin Donuts). AND I make like $20000 a year if that. AND I live in the south, where there are more Alpha1s than Betas (although just slightly). I've been through more nasty shit in the first 25 years of my life than I'll wager half the commenters here have. If I can do it, so can anyone. Literally. So Like YOU, I missed out on a TON of pussy. And let's face it, that might have been for the best cuz if I wasn't so inexperienced/lazy/nihilistic about chicks, with all the ones who threw themselves at me from age 15-30, there's a good chance I may have impregnated one or caught an STD from one (ESPECIALLY before 25 when I didn't care about my own well being and thought it was cool to drink and get high all the time). One of my best buds has one of the best things to say about chicks: Things happen or don't happen for a reason, and If its meant to be, its meant to be. Getting with attractive chicks in my teens and 20s, just wasn't meant to be. Doesn't mean I never will get with attractive chicks and I definitely want to, but I'm not expecting to. And I really don't care. I'm cool with the meh looking chicks, they are approachable, low maintenance, they know how to cook, and they groom themselves well making them really good in the bedroom. I'm refusing to give into toxic masculine SP and judge my self worth based on the attractiveness of the chicks I'm with. You should too. I'm not gonna give up on trying to get attractive chicks because although its taken me a long ass time, I'm finally knowing my worth and that's something that attractive chicks like. You can be perfect on the surface but if you don't feel like you DESERVE attractive chicks and if you aren't what I say "greedy not needy" with chicks, then guess what you won't get them. If just want to get a chick to marry and you are over 25, then its game over. Cuz that is needy AF. Do you KNOW how many of my buddies my age wish they were single again? They WISH they had the freedom I enjoy, but they'll never have it. If anything, a 25 year old dude who marries a chick less than a year after meeting her is a beta move, and you WILL be punished for it (and rightly so). This has happened to two people I know, and the only thing it has shown me is that marriage over a certain age is an exercise in futility.
If you make it all the way to 34 single, girls just think you’re weird for a lack of experience as opposed to no baggage.Stop with this toxic masculine "Life ends at __" nonsense. Life ends when you fucking die, not when toxic masculine PUAfags and feminists who only want Beta slaves say they want it to. And you can fucking fake it till you make it in that aspect too. Before I lost my virginity my buds all thought my laycount was in the 20s cuz I learned all kinds of techniques etc about sex more than they knew. The more you know man, the more you know.
joelsuf 2016-04-10 04:00:14
My issue is not WHEN i get to date and WHEN I get to marry, its IF i get to date, and IF i get to marry.In other words, you have given up. I'm serious, this is quitter logic. There is no IF. Its like I said, I'm way more of a "failure" than pretty much any other commenter here, one step above pure Basement Dweller (can you tell I used to be proud of that? lol), and I put next to ZERO effort and I get dates. Mostly with meh looking 33+s let's be honest, but hell its something.
Anon. 2016-04-10 09:32:53
Joelsuf—very inspirational. No more excuses for anyone!
Duke 2016-04-10 10:37:56
girls did NOT change after I told them I was a professional and if income came up, that I made over $130,000 a yearThis is why it is dangerous that you find an attractive girl that likes you when you are in this debilitating and defeatist state of mind. Whatever you do, try to find a way to hide that you make this much money. You will be a mark for a lot of opportunistic women. BD is loaded and I think he drives a 2006 Maxima or something like that. You can still show some style without looking like you're high income or really poor. I really can't wrap my head around guys like you who are decent looking with a good income. The only thing I can think of is maybe try a one on one coaching with BD (there's some things you just can't convey through a blog), but even he isn't miracle worker. You still need to dig deep into all of your psychological issues to see why you don't feel worthy of the attractive women you want before any real progress can be made.
Shanghai Bobby 2016-04-10 13:50:47
Heya BD, Just a thought - perhaps this post you made isn't 100% on point? I mean I've never seen any of your other posts get so many replies, and it really reinforces the point that beauty is completely subjective. I think a lot of men out there are being pressured to accept what other people define as hot, rather than what they define as hot. Then they feel like failures for not fucking what other people define as hot. Maybe it's just me, but I really don't notice much of a difference fucking an 8.5 vs. a 9.5... the only difference is the feeding of one's own ego, but in terms of actual sexual pleasure, I really don't notice any difference fucking even a 7.5 vs. a 9.5 - it's all mental masturbation isn't it?? Cheers, SB
Blackdragon 2016-04-10 14:01:40
perhaps this post you made isn’t 100% on point?Why?
I mean I’ve never seen any of your other posts get so many repliesIt's only at 106 so far. I've had many posts that got more comments than that.
and it really reinforces the point that beauty is completely subjective.Correct. The 1-10 scale is completely % subjective and it's silly to think otherwise. Read item number 10 right here.
I think a lot of men out there are being pressured to accept what other people define as hot, rather than what they define as hot. Then they feel like failures for not fucking what other people define as hot.Correct. This is classic Societal Programming, and men need to work on washing that shit out. Fuck what you like, not what your buddies like.
I really don’t notice any difference fucking even a 7.5 vs. a 9.5 – it’s all mental masturbation isn’t it??No. I clearly notice a difference between fucking a personal, subjective 7.5 vs a personal, subjective 9.5. If you find sex with your 7.5 and 9.5 as completely identical, that's fine, but I don't, and other men don't either.
Shanghai Bobby 2016-04-11 05:24:26
BD, Would you mind elaborating on the key factors you constitute as being better sex between your 7.5 vs. your 9.5? I'm genuinely curious as to understand what's going through your head when you're banging these two girls, and what makes the sex with your 9.5 that much better. Some of the best sex I've ever had was with girls that aren't the hottest (around the 7.5 mark) I've fucked. Paradoxically, some of the worst sex I've ever had, was with some of the hottest girls I've fucked (around the 9 mark). On average, I don't really notice much of a difference - perhaps I'm doing something wrong??
Bulma78 2016-04-11 07:17:47
AND I’m in worse shape than you, much worse. 5’8” and 220 lbs, I can do like 2 and a half pull ups, maybe.Joelsuf, Ok yah you might have a lot of college debt and some other things that you can’t take control of very quickly, but you totally can lose the weight…..and I know you mentioned spending a lot of time inside playing video games and online blogs. You could spend at least an hour a day outside running or get a gym membership. You mentioned you don’t earn a huge salary, but running is free to do and you can workout inside at your place, you can buy some free-weights, they’ll last you forever; it’s an investment in yourself. You can totally do this! The thing is, hot and cute girls that are in good physical shape want to be with a guy that is in good physical shape also……and I’m not even saying you have to be in super awesome shape. You just have to be at a better weight; pretty much nice looking chest and arms; workout at least 4 days a week maybe? I’m saying this because I’m a girl and I won’t go with a guy who’s overweight. I want a guy who is in similar shape as myself. I’m not with my ex-boyfriend anymore because he was gaining a lot of weight and just didn’t care. He’d starve himself all day and then stop for fast food on the way home for dinner and then at the corner store to pick up donuts and candy bars for dessert and just binge. Then he got one of those nutrition extractor blenders that are really popular now. He was all excited about it and it was super easy to use, all you had to do was put pre-washed greens and frozen bagged fruit into it, well, after a few weeks he said it was “too hard” or he “didn’t have time”. Baloney! The thing is he didn’t care enough to want to change and he lost me because of it. Likewise, you are missing out on the hotter, cuter girls for perhaps the same reason. I stopped seeing him shortly after that. That was a few years ago already and now I’ve been seeing a new guy who is in good shape and enjoys eating healthy things most of the time. Me and him are on a similar level and we’re happy. We go bike riding together and skiing/snowboarding in the winter. The best part is, the both of us feel really good/proud to be seen out in public with each other! I know BD will say that you can still get hot girls even if you are not so great looking or in so great of shape, but you said yourself you haven’t been getting with any hot girls for a long time. You also said that attractive girls used to throw themselves at you, and from what you wrote above you were younger then and probably thinner when that was happening. I really think if you start working out you will be able to start scoring some really cute girls!
Felix 2016-04-11 07:38:29
Here's a simple rule. Whatever you want the girl to look like, you should too. Don't be an ass and say big tits. I know I am much more attracted to girls in good shape. So I go to the gym everyday. I run for 30 minutes then lift weights for another 30 minutes. I do this 6 times a week. If you like girls who dress well, guess what? You should too. It doesn't have to be expensive but crappy t-shirt and dirty jeans is a no no. Your outer appearance can be a huge indicator of your psychological state. So present yourself like you care. You don't have to spend 1 hour getting ready before going outside (Thank God, I'm a guy), but you do have to look nice. Just like you like girls who look good, girls like guys who look good too. Yes, if you have 5 years of PUA under your belt, you can get away with crazy stuff. The question is do you? If so, why are you here? Act like an attractive guy who has standards and girls will like you and talk to you. The rest, read BD's books or other PUA material and practice.
Bulma78 2016-04-11 08:02:03
See? Felix agrees with me too. Johnny Doe, I will agree with the other posters that getting married should not be a goal. Girls want to have weddings; they don’t want to be married. I’ve had two different friends tell me that they became depressed shortly after their wedding because it was over, the attention they were getting was over and nobody was any longer asking them questions about how the planning was going, how excited they were for the big day etc., etc. I mean, I can see maybe if you want kids? But it’s not the 1950’s anymore, you can still live with a girl and do all that cozy stuff like have a kid without having to be legally connected to them. And I’m a girl who’s 37 and I don’t believe anyone thinks I’m weird that I’ve never been married? I think only the married ones would think that! But if they do, they are just secretly jealous. What do I care? because I’m having fun going skiing after work and they are stuck at home wiping boogers from their kids’ noses! I know 4 girls that are already divorced that had gotten married in their mid-twenties and another girl who’s husband just told her he wants a divorce. If I was married I would not be doing the things that I’m doing right now. I’m seeing a subjectively very hot guy that I have a lot in common with and we just got back recently from a trip to West Virginia skiing and snowboarding. We have plans to go on other trips and do a lot of cool outdoor stuff during the summer. I guarantee that none of my married friends are as happy as I am. Any by the way, I know you think girls are the only ones having all of the fun, but I had a 4 year dry spell in my mid-twenties because I didn’t put myself out there and I just focused on saving all of my money so that I could buy a condo. I’ve only slept with a handful of guys and I’ve never lived with a guy. And I’m really super cute and petite, it’s not like I’m some ugly chick! I guess my prime would have been my twenties just like you said; I missed out the same as you, but we can’t go back in time. You still might have the very best ahead of you!
Blackdragon 2016-04-11 09:20:11
Would you mind elaborating on the key factors you constitute as being better sex between your 7.5 vs. your 9.5?Visuals. The only way a 7.5 and a 9.5 would be exactly the same for me is if all the lights were turned out and I couldn't see anything and they were equally skilled in bed. I, and most men, am strongly visual. Seeing that beautiful woman bounce up and down underneath me, with that perfect (to me) body, with her eyes looking up at me, is a huge source of sexual pleasure. If a 9.5 is doing it it's going to be more pleasurable for me than if it's a 7.5, though I certainly agree there are exceptions to the rule. It's true that some 7s are better in bed that 9s. But that's not because they're uglier. My guess is that either you haven't had sex with a lot of women over 7 (these numbers are all subjective, mind you) or that you're not as visual as most men.
joelsuf 2016-04-11 11:27:57
to be with a guy that is in good physical shape also……and I’m not even saying you have to be in super awesome shape. You just have to be at a better weight; pretty much nice looking chest and arms; workout at least 4 days a week maybe?I never said I wasn't doing that. I work out at least 4 times a week, possibly more if you factor in bowling practice and leagues etc. I'm only slightly overweight and its all in my stomach and man boobs cuz my diet sucks. My Deadlift, squat and bench total is right around 900, and that's with me just casually working out, not on a big program, without me being on gear, and with a bad diet. But yeah if I want better looking chicks I'm gonna need to step things up appearance wise. That's why I don't get too butthurt if I don't get with better looking chicks; I'm being fairly lazy in making myself more available to them so I'm getting what I deserve. I'm just slightly frustrated but I'll get over it.
You also said that attractive girls used to throw themselves at you, and from what you wrote above you were younger then and probably thinner when that was happening. I really think if you start working out you will be able to start scoring some really cute girls!Well the reason why attractive chicks were throwing themselves at me wasn't because I was thinner. I was actually way more pudgy and looked like a clump of dough with pencil thin legs when I was younger. And I still had wide deer-in-headlight eyes that is universally unattractive. I had so much anxiety towards chicks that I would stutter like crazy and even start crying when talking to them lol. And that certainly wasn't the case in my mid-late 20s when I was in the worst shape of my life, when I weighed 240 and couldn't even bench press my bodyweight. I look way better now than I did in 1998, and definitely better than I looked in 2008. Here's what I think happened. The older I got, the more cynical I became, the more I disliked myself, and the more nihilistic I became. I was just as nihilistic then as I am now, but the difference is that when I was younger I was able to get away with it because it was part of the bad boy mentality. Back in high school I was seen as attractive because I was popular. I was popular cuz I said things that no one else had the balls to say. That works great in high school cuz it created a mystique around me that chicks wanted to figure out. Another thing that happened to me that caused me to not think I was able to get with more attractive chicks was when I was falsely accused of harassment in my last year of high school. When that happened, I think I unconsciously gave up and had to rebuild my hope from scratch. Just looking like Chad Thundercock isn't gonna just automatically get you attractive chicks. Attractive chicks will easily throw a Chad Thundercock who hates himself to the side for some average dude who doesn't dislike himself. I'm a little better than average looking, but I still hate myself for stuff that I regret doing. Therefore, no attractive chicks...yet.
if you have 5 years of PUA under your belt, you can get away with crazy stuff.I'd like to add something to this. If you have 5 years of PUA under your belt, and HAVE GOTTEN RESULTS, you can get away with crazy stuff. There are some guys out there on youtube who literally spent years in their momma's basement reading PUAism, then they go out and try to mimic the stuff they read and get VERY cringeworthy responses. Fortunately I was not like this. All I needed PUA for was to learn how to flirt, how to get a chick out on a date, and how to escalate to sex without looking like a rapist. The PUAism materials that I read at the time (mostly David D) was able to teach me this. But the PUAism they teach NOW is absurd, especially RSD, Return of Kings, and Manhood Academy. The sooner those organizations disband, the better.
Johnny Doe 2016-04-11 16:44:41
@Bulma78 You sound like a cutie. And I just did 100 push-ups (going all the way down) in 4 clean sets of 25 in under 5 minutes for the first time ever! Woo hoo. Not bad for a fatass. Thanks for your kind words, I know you meant well. But with all due respect, we are on completely different wavelengths. Your own post shows it. You didn't 'put yourself out there' while you were saving for a condo - that was a conscious choice. You probably had many opportunities with guys and chose not to act on them - again the power of female choice. Picture saving for your condo and being rejected by guys you ask out 100 percent of the time. Picture sending out hundreds and hundreds of messages in online dating (while being in athletic shape) and getting zero responses, writing exactly what girls say they want to hear. Picture never getting signals of interest from guys you like. Picture hitting it off with a guy, even nailing down a time and place to meet up, and he never shows and never responds via phone when you text asking where he is. Picture that happening so much you become insecure about guys following through with plans and you begin to doubt that you are worthy of someone's time just to meet and talk in public. Picture all of these things happening while seeing guys brag about how many matches they get online and can't keep track of how many girls they can get and how they need to be extremely selective as a result. Picture guys complain all women want is sex and why can't women be more interested in a guys personality and getting frustrated because that feels exactly like what you are doing but getting nowhere. You didn't have fun in your 20s because that was a choice, not because guys you liked didn't acknowledge you at all in any way, shape, or form no matter what you did. It's so, so different to be a guy in today's dating world there is just really no way you can understand how incredibly difficult it can be as man, not as a woman, just to get a date with someone you like. And girls can get dates so, so easily, decent looking and up, so they cannot picture at all what that would be like to be completely ignored for years and years and the feelings that can develop as a result. I've seen girls pass up on awesome guys all the time for dates because the timing is off. You will rarely, if ever, see guy pass up on a girl on a date because the timing is off, Because guys do not by default have the same luxury as you do, to sit back, watch the suitors come flooding in, in person or online, and just pick someone, or not pick someone at all, because the timing is off. I don't work out to look good for Women - they aren't going to notice - I do it for myself to feel just a little less hopeless and frustrated about being alone for so long. Women aren't going to line up once I announce I'm ready to put myself out there - the only thing that will Change is things I have done to benefit myself - not my dating life. At one point in my life I was ridiculously in shape, going for the CK underwear model look. Made zero, zero impact In a girl saying yes to date. That's the difference between your life and mine.
joelsuf 2016-04-11 21:18:14
@Johnny_Doe that's it, I'm taking you down. Your hopeless negativity is actually worse than mine. At least I'm trying to fix my shit.
Picture sending out hundreds and hundreds of messages in online dating (while being in athletic shape) and getting zero responses, writing exactly what girls say they want to hear.So you somehow know exactly what every chick wants to hear in online dating? Hey BD, you have some competition! He knows EXACTLY, not an estimate, but EXACTLY what chicks want to read when someone hits them up online!
Picture hitting it off with a guy, even nailing down a time and place to meet up, and he never shows and never responds via phone when you text asking where he is.Cuz chicks NEVER catch feelings and get oneitis. Nope, never happens. Seems legit. Also why are you so obsessed with reversing these roles to prove a point? Are you projecting, or are you just unoriginal in your arguments?
Because guys do not by default have the same luxury as you do, to sit back, watch the suitors come flooding in, in person or onlineI never knew it was a luxury to be approached daily by creepy omegas and betas who flex like a try hard, get massive, Elliot Rodger like butthurt when they get shot down, and develop massive oneitis (like you probably do) as soon as the chick smiles at them! That must be the life! I can't imagine how happy I would be if nothing but 300+ lb feminists or drugged up chicks who are 80lbs soaking wet came at me every day, begging me to spend time with them. Jeez, I wouldn't know what to do with myself!
I was ridiculously in shape, going for the CK underwear model look. Made zero, zero impact In a girl saying yes to date.Zero impact? None at all? Are you sure it wasn't cuz of your defeatist personality or the fact that you are STILL looking for a "trophy wife" in 2016? None of that played any part either? Cool story bro. Go back to Roosh's forum, Matt Forney is waiting. Why anyone would want to hang out with you irl with an attitude like yours is beyond me. I say a lot of stupid crap online for lulz, but I'm nothing like that irl (unless the lulz are requested, then I'll go to town). If you are getting this butthurt about not getting the chicks you want, you need to stop posting here and get some counseling or something.
Johnny Doe 2016-04-11 21:57:27
@joelsuf and @@Bulma78 You guys are right, and I sincerely apologize. My response was over the top. It won't happen again. Just frustrated and projecting I guess - not an excuse though. Thanks for the the advice.
Bulma78 2016-04-12 07:39:07
Picture guys complain all women want is sex and why can’t women be more interested in a guys personality and getting frustrated because that feels exactly like what you are doing but getting nowhere.Johnny Doe, Wouldn’t it be funny if things were reversed and when people went out on dates, after dinner for example, the girl would be like “Ok, I’m picking up the check and oh, by the way, I want you to come back to my place now and have sex with me.” Lol!!! Ok you are right, I can see it was not a fair comparison at all. I should have compared my experiences to those of the other girl friends my age at the time. Do you think maybe these girls are intimidated by you? And I’m referring to the girls that did commit to the dates…..you mentioned that if the subject of income/career came up and you’d tell them what you did/what your salary was? Maybe they felt intimidated. That is common - I can speak for myself here. This did happen to me once and I remember feeling discouraged; a guy telling me about money, things and all of the cars he owned and then he asked me what kind of car I had? And I just felt like a common peasant. It’s like, why do you care what kind of car I have after saying all of that? And my car is really decent too, but all of a sudden I felt like I was on welfare or something. I told him, but I could just feel my heart sinking. So yes, if I were to meet a guy that made a lot of money I’d feel inferior, even though I know some guys and do earn a lot more in a professional career. I’d feel like if I date this guy, he’s just going to drop me the second someone better comes along because he has money and he can have whatever he wants. And that really is the mindset of us girls a lot of times. So one suggestion would be to downplay that a bit and I do believe that BD suggests that. BD had an entire post recently about guys being beyond us. You called yourself a fatass, so that’s not a good sign, but you also said it had no effect, even when you were in awesome shape. So that means this is not the main issue, so we can eliminate weight, but I still say get into very good shape again! You said you can do 100 pushups so you already have a head start. Let’s not rule out that it can be a combination of things, weight and whatever else. Maybe you give off too much of a nice image? Sometimes girls equate nice to not being fun or exciting. If you mentioned other hobbies or interests above, I apologize if I fail to remember them. Maybe you should take up a sport like mountain biking, jetskiing or snowboarding, because it kind of gives you a rougher image you know? I think my two best pieces of advice are to make working out/weight training part of your regular routine and get into some kind of action-type sport. I mean, think about it, then you can put all that stuff in your online dating profile! This is stuff girls will read about you before you actually meet up and then you’ll have stories to tell them on your first date with them, like how you rode so many miles and what parks and ski resorts you’ve been too! Plus if any of these girls are into this stuff too, they are going to want a guy they can do these things with. Then you can also get new online dating pictures to put up with your profile too, like a picture of you next to your mountain bike or snowboard and you should get some other pictures of you doing cool stuff like cutting down a tree and chopping wood or up on a ladder wearing work boots & work gloves, looking handsome and dirty. I agree, you should only go for girls that you find attractive! Still keep trying online because there are always new girls signing up on there all the time.
Shanghai Bobby 2016-04-13 07:57:55
I thought as much BD, thanks for the feedback. It actually explains why I don't notice much of a difference, if the sex is vanilla. For me, the kinkier a chick is, the better the sex - I'm into that hardcore BDSM shit, anything 7.5+ looks pretty much the same when they're all tied up etc., and if they're not into kinky outfits/BDSM stuff, there isn't too much of a disparity for me (visually when we're fucking), provided they're 7.5 to begin with.
Johnny Doe 2016-04-13 17:37:45
@Bulma79 Being too nice, yes I've done it. It would be hard for me to be an asshole or be douchey. Tell a girl I don't know my salary that I just met? No, I don't go on the dates at all, so that never has come up. I can imagine that could make someone else think the way you mentioned. Picture only rejections and 'yes this time this day', but no actual meets ups everytime you ask someone out, good vibes or not, and that's what my life has been like for about the last 12 years. I think maybe out of those times I've gone on 4-5 actual dates. I'm really really focused on myself these days. Not so much on women. And I don't necessarily believe working on yourself changes anything for a guy (going on dates with girls I like). I think it definitely does have an affect on a woman's dating life, but not as a guy. You are still competing with 100s of othe guys for a woman's time, so it's entirely possible you will slip through the cracks and never be noticed. Think of a fit guy with a good job in online dating. He is fit and he had a good job but what if a girl has 105 messages to go through and he is 106? It may never be read unless a girl is really determined to say 'I'm going to delete every shitty message and look for the good ones - they are out there and they will get my attention' as opposed to 'fuck these losers who just ask me for sex!! Fuck all guys! Delete delete delete (pass right over fit guy with a good job). See how that dynamic works? It's still very possible to be overlooked as a guy, no matter what attractive traits you have. Getting picked for a date where a girl shows up isn't necessarily merit based.
Rogerio 2016-04-14 00:24:56
Blackdragon, Dude I hope you read my post and respond to it as I have faced this issue with the kinds of women you specifically speak of on this thread, the blondes. It isn't just in dating and trying to pursue them either, I hate to use this word but quite frankly, a lot of the ones I've met in my life actually were bitches. Whether it is me dealing with a waitress, receptionist, or a nurse; they had this arrogant "why should I even care about you or do my job?" vibe to them. Many of them never smiled or did anything while their brunette or counterparts of minority groups would do that. To make matters worse, the guys they hung out with her usually some of the more sketchy and troublemaker type of white guys who made life hell for others. Not sure where you grew up but I grew up as a latino male in the southeast/conservative USA. I am attracted to these kinds of women but I have had nothing but bad experiences with the hot ones. Not only in terms of dating but also just interacting. They literally have this "I am too good for you and the world" attitude which can get frustrating to deal with and makes me realize why a large group of guys hate them. I am also afraid of the white guys they hang with trying some illegal shit if I do pursue those women, my area is very right wing type. Any suggestions? BTW, have you seen guys of minority groups get with these kinds of women? It seems like black guys are the only ones having success.
Shanghai Bobby 2016-04-14 02:55:07
Hi Rogerio, I'm a minority group and I fuck these types of blonde chicks. I'm Asian. From my experience, I have success with these super hot blondes who are not from the following countries: New Zealand Australia I've had success with these types of blondes from the following countries: Czech Republic Germany Belarus Holland England (but she loves guys from New Zealand, so not sure if that had some bias in her head) Slovakia Hope this helps bud. From my understanding, it's probably some small town mentality/xenophobic shit that these chicks have going. Most of them haven't been overseas or seen the world, and would typically date these guys you speak of. My advice is go for foreign super hot blondes or travel to Europe and fuck some of these girls. The guys I lived with back in New Zealand had similar experiences; most of the super hot blonde types they fucked were from the following countries: Germany Holland Finland Russia South Africa Cheers, SB
Bulma78 2016-04-14 09:16:19
Johnny Doe – hello again, Online it is only your pictures that are competing, not the actual, whole person and I remember you said that in one of your previous posts. A girl is going to respond to somebody or maybe a few people, so you have to make that somebody be you. This is all based on pictures – I don’t care if you have a heart of gold. Your pictures are the only thing that will get a girl interested enough to reply back to you. I remember one guy who emailed me and I was debating on whether or not to reply to him. His profile sounded really good, he was a snowboarder, he fostered dogs and ran his own small company & we seemed to have very similar interests, but he only had one picture of himself. It was slightly blurry, it didn’t attract me in any way; I couldn’t get a better idea of what he looked like. I guess I could have replied back and asked him to send me more pictures, but I just decided to pass him by. I mean, me and him could have been a perfect match, but I'll never know. I chose to reply to a guy who had a good profile and a bunch of cool pictures. I know what I said above sounds really bratty/snobby or whatever, so I’m sorry. One guy I did reply back to, only because he had asked me for feedback about his profile. So I replied and I said, “You should get better pictures; you just have all selfies on there.” Selfies don’t attract girls to reply to you. Selfies don’t create any feelings of excitement. I don’t care if the profile lists all this great stuff that you do. I want to see pictures of those things: you outside cooking on the grill or fishing or at your desk at work or something showing you in your element. In real life we are partly attracted to someone we see while doing their thing. It’s very attractive to see a guy doing something that he’s good at! That live experience gets lost online, so you need the pictures to create that attraction. Obviously I have no idea what your dating profile or pictures look like.
Chris 2016-04-14 10:41:33
Bonaire said: Good point but the problem is deeper really. Hot women are simply beyond the reach of a regular guy. Where can I even find them in my life? Tinder-hot women are swiping right on that famous top 5-10% of the guys where I don’t belong.Work is out of question. Night game-hot women will cut you out without a turn of a head. Day game- I don’t have balls for that.This is why Western societies are heading into demographic winter and are failing to reproduce at replacement level. Freedom is one of those words that has a inextricably positive meaning in the minds of many but freedom also means the paradox of choice and with more freedom, people have more options and thus can hold out longer looking for a better deal.
Rogerio 2016-04-14 17:18:55
Shanghai: Thanks man but what about the all American girl types?
Johnny Doe 2016-04-15 02:44:30
@Bulma78 Hello again Bulma78. I don't think its snobby or bratty. . .I don't know. I guess I cannot picture what's like to have that many options where you do pass over people who you think would be a perfect fit, so when I hear it, because I struggle very, very hard to just to meet with a woman in a safe public place just to talk - my perception is that it comes off as - what's a non-abrasive way to put this - taking things for granted. Or trivializing initial interest, and how difficult that can be for some and not others, even though it is often required to lead to sustained interest. But then again, who knows, maybe he would have sent you pics and then you wouldn't have been attracted anyway. And I definitely don't think you should have to do that. I tried it once and it didn't go well. I remember when a female friend admitted to me she went on so many dates from online dating that it became a total blur, and she couldn't remember one date from another. I also thought, and believe there is actually studies to back this one - IF women are the first to message men online - its a much higher response rate than the other way around. And that's better because chances are, its men that women actually are somewhat interested in to start off with. One thing I was always curious about was, if you are a woman who gets lots of messages, are you even reading all of them, or is there ever a feeling if you aren't, you ignoring well-written messages by guys that say all the things that your profile suggests, and in turn, making them waste their time? To me, a woman who isn't deterred by shitty messages and keeps looking until there is a good one, maybe messages guys on her own too, is someone who is using online dating in a serious way - to find someone suitable to go on a date with. Not to fuck around and get attention just to feel good (a female friend directly told me she did that quite a bit and never responded to a single guy), not to use to it believe the worst in guys, etc. "Online it is only your pictures that are competing, not the actual, whole person and I remember you said that in one of your previous posts.' What exactly I had said in my previous posts is I think its a problem that guys gawk, and go apeshit over women who post photos online on social media, and in online dating websites. Women have this awesome social power to be super desired, super fawned over, and instantly create hordes of male attention, just by posting a selfie online, or on a dating website. I think its good and bad - women can get compliments and feel good about themselves, but its also true that they can get so many guys wanting them, that they become egotistical about it, offended about it, it becomes their only source of validation, or just gets them to assume all guys are just about one thing, and reject every guy, even good ones, for the most arbitrary reasons. As a guy, if you are well-intentioned and constantly get shut down, that dynamic can feel frustrating. I don't really go crazy when I see a girl post a flattering picture online, and I have no inner, carnal desire to send her a dic pick or a 'hey baby want to fuck!' Personally, I NEVER understood guys who catcall, and send crude messages to girls online, because it so obviously doesn't work in any way, shape, or form to get a woman's positive attention. And I'm really, really against guys giving attention to women where it so clearly isn't wanted. I don't look at hot girls and think damn what a bitch I couldn't sleep with her, but I do think she must get hit on in such negative ways on such a frequent basis, that she has her guard very high up, and there is no point for me to go over and talk to her - I'll just get a scowl no matter what I say or do. That's from actually trying. Probably the most negative thing I'll think of a hot girl is if she complains to me about how tough her dating life is, I'm not going to very sympathetic, because I'm assuming she can easily go on a date with whoever she wants, and that in itself, is an opportunity to lead to something more fulfilling. A few months ago I met two girls at a bar that I went to as an after party, and I bought them a drink. I don't know why I did, but I just wanted to feel cool I guess. They invited me to hangout with them outside on the patio. I was really surprised, because no women at a bar had ever done that in my life. I was even more surprised when told a much better looking guy who tried to hang with us to fuck off, and said I was genuinely cool and not about just one thing, and then suggested we go to another bar, and we went, and they bought drinks. And even more surprised when one of them said she was tired, wanted to go home, but then said her friend was from out of town, and told me to take her friend to another bar, it was ok, she trusted me, and just to make sure her friend got home safe (she would kill me if her friend didn't come home was the exact words) We stopped by my house on the way to the next bar because I wanted to smoke out before we went to the next bar, and she seemed slightly nervous about going into my apartment, but I was really clear I just wanted to smoke out on my balcony, and she could smoke a cigarette, and we would leave right after that. I also told her if she wanted she could just stay downstairs while I went up, but she did come up after all. And that was what we just did, and it was also the very first time in my life, ever, a girl was in my apartment that I had met from a bar that night. At the next bar we did make out, and I took her home, then called it a night. The next morning was beyond awful, but it was one of the most fun nights I ever had in Los Angeles. I think us making out was typical drunken behavior, so I didn't really care the next morning, but I was really moved by just the lack of skepticism I encountered that night. When I've told the story to some females I know, they automatically went to "I WOULD NEVER GO HOME WITH A GUY I DON'T KNOW WHAT IF HE IS A KILLER". There is truth to what they said, but I also thought, if you assume the worst of every guy out there, and don't give a chance to see how he acts, how he presents himself before you pass judgment, strictly based on past experiences, you are gonna miss out, and that's a fact. That could be true of real life, it could be true of online. So I guess what I'm saying is I think this attention explosion a lot of women are getting is making them lose sight of that. But hey, I could be totally wrong, its just my perception, and these are the struggles I've felt in trying to communicate with girls I am attracted to, online or in real life. I actually think you are really nice and sweet to give me advice and your perspective on things. It's not like you have to or anything - I'm a complete stranger. You could if you wanted to, just completely ignore all guys who aren't your boyfriend, and enjoy your life, other people's problems aren't your problems after all. I have went through my share of disillusionment, despair, and acceptance of how things are in life, but it is nice to know someone cares - especially a woman. And that goes for everyone on this board actually - everyone seems very well-intentioned. Maybe when I'm down to like 6% body fat, and have an attractive look, I will definitely post a picture of myself doing something physical in my element. Hell I'll do that cuz it would be way cool!
Bulma78 2016-04-15 08:18:41
Hi Johnny Doe, Yah, taking options I had for granted is a better way of putting it. I did have the luxury of choosing amongst guys who were all mostly very good people. Their pictures were the deciding factor though. To answer your question, I always read every message I received, but 97% of the time I wouldn’t reply, even if just to say “thank you but I’m already talking with someone”. I did reply to a few who sent really nice messages just to explain that I was already conversing with someone I had met on there first. I never got 100+ messages in a day or a week even, so I was able to read them all. I read every profile as well. I never received any inappropriate messages either from guys just asking for sex or whatever. Most people would just say “hello” or “how are you?” and I didn’t feel those deserved a reply for some reason. Another reason I wouldn’t respond is because I’d heard that even if you are polite and reply to say you are not interested, that guys could get offended and might start harassing you. I mean, I felt bad, but I only wanted to focus on one person and put all my effort there. My intention of being on there wasn’t to go on a ton of dates. I think it’s important for you to login there about every other day and see who is new because new people sign up each day. The girls who are serious on there can easily get scooped up by a guy on day one of signing up. You should get a few new pictures to start as soon as you can; don’t wait too long! Just get a few brand new ones for now and keep adding/replacing them while you are working towards your physical goal. You’ll have to get a sibling or a friend take them for you. I liked your bar story! Those girls probably thought you were hot, got good vibes from you and felt they could trust you - they took a natural liking to you!
Shanghai Bobby 2016-04-15 14:28:05
Well the thing is Rogerio, I've never been to the USA, so can't comment on these specific all American bimbo babe types, BUT, if NZ and Australia is anything to go by, I'd recommend you just not bother with these. If we really think hard about why you want to fuck them, isn't it all mental masturbation + trying to prove a point? I mean, let's think about it for a moment. What really is the difference between an East European super hot bimbo babe vs. an all American super hot bimbo babe? The accent. Their sense of entitlement. Their level of intelligence. Their exposure and understanding of the greater world outside of their own country. Etc. After making my initial reply comment to this post, Glute. Max. jumped in and vehemently opposed my opinion, and even ridiculed me for whatever I said. I'm relatively sure Glute is white and hasn't really faced the problems minorities face, when trying to bang the top 1%. In New Zealand and Australia, Asians, especially Asian men are looked down upon, and especially by the hottest of white girls. In my 27 years of living in New Zealand, I've only seen like a handful of Asian + Indian guys holding hands with these super hot blonde bimbo types. I'll repeat again that I haven't been to America, but if my understanding of these bimbo types are correct, they usually date the meat-head jock all through high school + university/college, then go on to date sports people and etc. in NZ, our equivalent of American Football is Rugby, and I see these blonde bimbo types with famous Rugby players all the time - anyways, I digress. The point here is, why bother stressing yourself and getting frustrated/discouraged? I mean it's good to take the path of most resistance in life, but then there's also maximizing return on your time invested, because you only have so many years to live, so why stress about spending however much effort + time to get these bimbo, all American babe types, when you can get one just as hot, who's not all American, with about 1/20 the effort and none of the attitude/entitlement? If my understanding of hot white girls' views on Latino dudes is correct, then I'd imagine they view you much like how hot white girls in NZ + Australia view Asian + Indian men, which ties me back to my previous comment of some deep ingrained xenophobia that is near impossible to uproot. I'm not saying you won't fuck these bimbo all American types. I'm just saying it's hardly worth the effort, especially considering what you're getting - kinda like paying around 75 pounds to eat out in London, and getting the same items of food of the same quality in Budapest, for $15. The only American girls I've fucked are Brunette and Redhead - both super hot by my standards, but also super intelligent and have traveled the world. Thinking about it now, if I actually rack my brain, I can't ever recall seeing one of these all American bimbo types in New Zealand. My guess is they probably haven't even left their state because they've never had a need to, hence are probably super entitled and super stupid, and have a lot of SP about how their fantasy man should be. Trust me, the last thing they'd fantasize about is a 'Mexican looking guy' or some guy who looks like that chap from Chang's takeaway down the road. Just my 2 cents guys - feel free to flame away Glute ;). Cheers, SB
joelsuf 2016-04-15 16:12:58
Maybe when I’m down to like 6% body fat, and have an attractive look, I will definitely post a picture of myself doing something physical in my element. Hell I’ll do that cuz it would be way cool!Why not do that now? And 6% body fat is disturbingly unhealthy. 16% is ideal. Chicks likes guys with a six pack AND muscles, not just the six pack that you get from running marathons. And even if you are a fatass like me, if you have defined muscles anywhere and have a good sense of style chicks are gonna like it anyways. But I don't think you should do online game anyways and here's why:
A few months ago I met two girls at a bar that I went to as an after party, and I bought them a drink. I don’t know why I did, but I just wanted to feel cool I guess. They invited me to hangout with them outside on the patio. I was really surprised, because no women at a bar had ever done that in my life.This is why in his noob guide, BD says you should only concentrate on ONE area of game not more than one. You are unconsciously expecting your interactions online to be as fast paced as things are during the night. This is why you have such a negative opinion about online game. Its cuz you can't message a chick online and expect a response. In night game you can spam approach an entire venue, be really cool, buy everyone booze (if you have the money and you don't have some weird agenda behind it other than "let's all have fun and get wasted tonight") and everyone will think you are cool and you will get invited to after parties. OR your crew can approach someone else's crew and all of you have an after party together. This is LITERALLY how people get laid in college; its all social circle. If you are in the right city (one that isn't overpopulated with violent betas and alpha 1s like mine, or any college city for that matter) it will work very well. Online game is not like this. You still need to spam message online, but you don't get instant responses like during the night. IMO you should ditch online game altogether and only do night game.
Phaze 2016-04-15 22:01:09
Words are distortions. Sometimes its real tough to determine the degree/extent of something relative. Its easy to polarize to one side of the paradox because of our predicament , instead of floating somewhere around the balance point. I've got it good in some ways , but can relate to both the suffering men and the ecstatic men. So , I hope this helps a few frustrated men. It really can be hard for more introverted people living in a society becoming drone-like where women dont even notice you, perhaps cuz people aren't noticing much at all, except tech. I dream of a future where we can fly anywhere in the world in 1 hour for $30 or something. Think of how that would change things. The intermingling worldwide would be insane. It really is a great thing to go to a foreign market and go from a 6 to a 7 or 8 instantly. I currently live in Thailand. And its much easier to cold approach. You can see her face light up and interest to know you. Diversity is beautiful and makes one more exotic. I just bumped into a 37 yr old woman at a bar whose husband is too old to have sex, so found me to take care of that need. Granted her boobs were fake, but wow she was stunning. She is probably not too bright but, she loves an old grandpa and been married for 10 years. Many countries have quite a bit of suffering and struggle. That makes the women less demanding and more open to alternative types of guys one might not expect. In other words, I've seen some true hotties that are with some shockingly absurd guys. Having game being a wordsworth advantage will somewhat vanish depending on the language barrier. the "looks" probably becomes slightly more important then. But, thats ok as you are now "hotter" in that market. lol Things are a bit in the past here though. So you still get a lot of women looking for someone to "take care." Yes money is quite powerful. But those are the brainless, sexy lazy types, which there are alot of here. However, There is just so much vag here its no problem. Id say the best thing about living here is that its flipped and the men maybe have the upper hand. The women are really paranoid and insecure. Its so easy to sneak away for an hour and get laid. And loads and loads of fit women as competition. Skinny is not enough to think u are a demigoddess here. Those women must have the full package. I'm so sure I could help many of these guys get out of their rut and really feeling excited again. The problem is being a slave to a job. So digital nomads who want more women should fly to me right now. lol Can teach me your digital skills while youre at it. 🙂 For me , my problem is that hot boring women bore me. Sure i will still go for the nice sex, but after having loads of sexy women I crave more fantastic women. There is nothing sexier in the universe than a "cosmic girl" (or sorceress) with a perfect 10 body (maybe 1 or 2 on the planet :). Being unplugged from the matrix makes me highly attracted to cosmic girls. I once read a cosmic girl complaining how most cosmic girls just want to play with their new open mind power and see what they can do with it. I really loved her for saying that as i feel that "cosmic girls" are difficult to pull as well as they want to explore their options. I would love to see an article on these type of high consciousness women. I love reading this website and all of your thoughtful comments. Such an interesting world we got here.
Shanghai Bobby 2016-04-18 01:04:13
Hey Phaze, I totally love your reply, and can totally relate - I'm in Prague at the moment and it's pretty much the same dynamic between women and men. Women here totally get off on being feminine, submissive, and dating a boss of a guy! By cosmic girl, I'm assuming you mean she behaves like an Alpha 2.0? If not, could you elaborate more on this? Thanks, SB
Mike Patel 2016-04-19 15:13:20
Incredible post Blackdragon. There's so much insight here, once you realize the truth and are honest with yourself, that's extremely liberating. Then you can move forward now that you're not stuck in a the twisted social programming mindset. --Mike Patel
Johnny Doe 2016-04-25 21:17:02
@Bulma78 I've created an online dating profile. Would you like to see it and tell me if the photos need work? Ok with brutal honesty and will not object to your opinion. Please let me know, and if so, maybe we can swap emails. Thanks!!
Bulma78 2016-04-28 11:49:18
Johnny!!!!!!! Gee, I dunno……..hey didn’t you already have an online dating profile? I’m not sure how we’d swap emails without everyone else seeing them? I’m still technically on POF though, so I could view it through there……… Also you could also go into one of the forums on POF, they have some that are for profile review. People on there look at your profile and give you pointers on how to make it better.
Bulma78 2016-05-10 09:00:43
Hello Johnny, I would prefer to stay 100% anonymous, mainly because if I respond, my personal email address would give away my real name, so that's all really, no offense at all!
Fandango 2016-05-21 11:28:30
I'm in Australia.And I don't like the blondes the blondes like me. I do not resonate with Asian or Sth American women.I've never picked up an Asian woman in my life. I've seen this refusal to engage hot women alot in my town.Guys get a huge ego boost from dumpster diving. I love being in venues with 8 ,9 10s.Yet these studs have to leave because its too hard.I've seen this time and time again.They complain that the women are bitches or that you will get nothing. Then we move to a venue with 5, 6, 7 and these guys are loving it.They get hit on by these women but I don't.??I just not happy to be there.My vibe is destroyed there.I tried boofing chicks below my looks but I hated it. Its dishonest to me and her.I just do not want to be there.I once had a chick break down and cry because I wouldn't f#$k her again.Never again man. My girlfriends and my ex wife were hot.Guys use to ask me how I done it.To me it was normal.I've been accussed of having too high standards. I go out solo and do better on my own.When I see or think a woman is beautiful I'm over the moon.In the venue full of hot women I'm flirtatious and happy.I start pinging.This is a product of my early 20s when I use to go clubbing around models in Sydney.I also worked in Europe as a barman around hot Euro chicks.To me 8 and above is how it should be. The other guys I know get angry and say these girls don't f#$k.They just don't get it.I've been working hard on pick up and my SMV.At 45 I do ok going out.I do really well in the US Europe and Sydney.I just love the women there.I can feel it in my dick. You also get the sheer joy of sex guys who think all women are hot.I actually wish I could be more like these guys.They see the beauty in every single woman.I have a mate like this who is my best wing man.The other guys are more ego driven and validation seeking.Beauty is not that important they must feel safe and loved .Only then are the girls great to them.
Viking 2016-07-06 11:08:23
Hi there, I just found this blog, - site....I'm 51 y.o man, single and loving it... Now then, reading these treads makes me laugh out load, sorry all you lovely ladies, and men who don't stand up for them self... This seems to be human dna code in full blast, damn it's funny to read. There is nothing I, you, we, can say to disproof the arguments stated by the author, now matter how mad (some of you lovely ladies are) or men not getting it, and no I'm not a " player" I havn't slept with 100's of women But I'm all man and believe in my worth...ect ect but treat both men and women with respect, but these stories, tips, hands on expierences are damn out right funny to read. It only goes to show, my god it's difficult to be human but it shure is fun. Keep up the good Work Kind regards to everybody and remember to have fun in life
Robere 2016-07-18 19:40:13
"6s and 7s are harder to fuck than 8s and 9s" c'mon BD that just hasn't been my experience. My unfortunate experience has been that I do occasionally get dates with 8s or 8.5s but they just simply aren't as interested in me as 7s or lower. I take all girls on the same kind of dates. The 8s and above just usually don't answer my texts after the first date whereas the 7s and below usually do. I can also get the 7s and below sometimes to come to my place on the first date and fuck but not the 8s and above. They're just harder to get to like me and harder to fuck. They're pickier. Maybe I need to run harder asshole game on them... I
Blackdragon 2016-07-19 11:35:28
“6s and 7s are harder to fuck than 8s and 9s” c’mon BD that just hasn’t been my experience. My unfortunate experience has been that I do occasionally get dates with 8s or 8.5s but they just simply aren’t as interested in me as 7s or lower. I take all girls on the same kind of dates. The 8s and above just usually don’t answer my texts after the first date whereas the 7s and below usually do. I can also get the 7s and below sometimes to come to my place on the first date and fuck but not the 8s and above.I submit that this is likely because of something you're doing, saying something, or putting out some vibe with the 8+ women that you aren't with the 7- women. You're (likely) more comfortable with the more average looking women, thus your game, confidence, aggressiveness, and outcome independence with these women is stronger. I could be wrong of course, but that's what I see with so many men.
Stefanos 2019-07-17 14:00:00
I have this. how do we fix it though?