“Coming Out” As an Alpha Male 2.0

Get Free Email Updates!

Join us for FREE to get instant email updates!

Loading

“Coming Out” As an Alpha Male 2.0

I get a lot of questions about how I handled things with my friends, family, co-workers, and loved ones when I started making my Alpha Male 2.0 lifestyle public. I know that this is a concern with many of you and it’s an important topic. 

-By Caleb Jones

Before I get into specifics, I need to reiterate something that should be obvious by now. One of the hallmarks of the Alpha Male 2.0 lifestyle is outcome independence. Part of OI means that you don’t give a shit about what people think about you. It also means you consider your own personal happiness as more important than what less happy, societally brainwashed people think about your life. That's even if they’re blood related. 

This means that if you are really concerned about what your mom or best friend might think if you tell these people that you’re nonmonogamous or never want to hire any employees in your business or whatever, then you have more growth to go through. You shouldn’t care, or at least you shouldn’t care to the point where you are paralyzed in terms of life action.

As always, I need to qualify what "you shouldn't care" means. As I describe in detail here, not giving a shit about what other people think doesn’t mean you don’t want results. Yes, you want to have sex with women. Yes, you want customers for your business. Of course. But that doesn’t mean you give a shit about what your loved ones think or what the masses in society think. These people can think you’re utterly insane while you’re getting laid with hot babes left and right and making tons of location independent cash. One has nothing to do with the other. (Most normal people who stumble across this blog probably think I’m insane. Do you think I care?) 

Just keep that in mind. Step one in dealing with any negative you get in your life about your Alpha 2.0 status is to not give a shit about it in the first place. I don’t, and never really did. 

I’ll describe my experiences when I “came out” to various people in my life regarding my Alpha 2.0 lifestyle. Your experiences may be very different or quite similar. The point is to emulate my mindset and frame during these experiences.

My Dad 

My dad’s reaction was one of confusion, but only for a very brief period of time. We occasionally have lunch together, and over some of these lunches I would briefly describe how I lived my life in various Alpha 2.0 aspects. I rarely, if ever, got into great detail with him, but I overviewed a lot, particularly when I was writing The Unchained Man. 

Initially, his attitude was “Oh, that’s Caleb being Caleb I guess.” Once everything was explained, his attitude shifted to “I would never do this, and I don’t have the needs and personality you do, but you seem very happy, so fine with me.”  

.

He has also told me on several occasions that I am the happiest of his six adult children. And he’s right. “Caleb must be doing something right,” seems to be the attitude he takes these days. He even helped give me ideas for the first chapter of The Unchained Man. 

All in all, my dad’s reaction was never a big deal. He is a traditional guy but not an extreme one. 

My Mom 

Unsurprisingly, my mom was a little different. Moms are much touchier about this kind of thing than dads. Of all the people in my life, my mom took the news the hardest. This is unsurprising since she’s A) a woman; B) over age 33; C) a mom, meaning she wants all the usual Disney bullshit for her children, much more so than my dad. 

I never actually sat down with her and explained things like I did with my dad, mostly because my mom is a much more emotional person and I didn’t think that approach would have worked. Instead, I would just drop random hints here and there and honestly answered questions as she asked them. 

Around 2009 or 2010, she angrily confronted me. “Why are you having sex with all of these young girls? Is this how you want to live your life?”  

I looked her square in the face and said, in no uncertain terms, that it was exactly how I wanted to live my life at that time, and if she didn’t like it that was her problem and she could fuck off. I also told her I didn’t want to discuss this topic with her ever again unless she was more constructive. 

She just frowned and that was literally the last time she ever brought it up.  

Lesson: Being tough with your parents works. It’s a shame more men don’t have the balls to do this. 

Unlike my dad, who enjoyed my book despite the fact he disagreed with a lot of it, my mom read part of the first chapter of The Unchained Man, was utterly horrified, couldn’t get through it, and later bitched at me about why I think “everything is about sex” (even though sex is just a tiny part of that chapter). 

My Friends 

Most of my friends are long-distance, guys I went to school with and so forth. I’m an introvert so I don’t spend a lot of pure friend-time that isn’t related to women or business somehow. My friends either didn’t give a shit or asked a few basic questions and then left it at that, pretty similar to my siblings. 

Lesson: People care much less about your life than you think they do. 

My Business Clients and Co-Workers 

These people cared the least. A lot of guys are really worried about this, if their boss, clients, or customers find out you’re an Alpha 2.0. I admit that many years ago I was a little concerned about this myself, but then I realized I was violating my own rules and was being outcome dependent.  

So, I stopped keeping my Alpha 2.0 life and business life separate and started merging the two of them together. The vast majority of my clients didn’t give a shit. Their attitude was that as long as I was helping them in their companies, they really didn’t care what kind of things I was doing in my personal life or how I was running my businesses.  

Two of my business’ clients started asking lots of questions. One of them has converted to Alpha 2.0 since then and the other one has moved heavily in that direction. 

The bottom line is that as long as you stay strong and outcome independent, people in your personal life discovering you live an Alpha 2.0 lifestyle is mostly a non-event. Many of you are terrified about this for no reason.  

People really don’t give a shit. They’re too concerned about themselves. 

That was about it. Perhaps needless to say, many years later when I got engaged to Pink Firefly my mom was ecstatic and today she’s very pleased about the fact that I’m married even though my marriage is a little unconventional. She is also close friends with Pink Firefly and the two of them often go shopping together. 

My Siblings 

I have five siblings: three brothers and two sisters. I describe all of them here if you want some context. None of them really cared much when I went public with the type of life I was living. I’m sure there were some discussions about me when I wasn’t in the room, but I didn’t care (and neither should you). 

My sisters and one of my brothers didn’t care at all and never brought it up. One of my brothers was mildly interested and asked a few questions, which I answered. Another one of my brothers was very interested about the open aspect of my relationships and asked a lot of questions several times. In the end though, he declared that he could “never do that” (he’s a monogamously married Alpha Male 1.0). 

That was about it. I’m not super close to any of my siblings though; I suspect if you have siblings who are actually like close friends you’d likely get more of a reaction. 

My Mother-in-Law (Pink Firefly’s Mom) 

I could write an entire article on this one, but I will simply summarize it here since I’ve mentioned this before. When PF and I were dating, PF’s sister found this blog and (of course) immediately showed her mom. Unsurprisingly, her mom, who really liked me during the few times we had already met, freaked the hell out and told a bunch of people about it, worried for her daughter. 

[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner]

I texted her and told her that she and I should meet up for coffee and have a little chat. We did so and met at a Starbucks one day. She was cold and wary. Then we talked for about 90 minutes, and I explained everything (at least the basics) and why I did what I did and lived the way I did. I also told her of my intention on marrying her daughter (an OLTR Marriage, of course, and I explained that as well). By the end of the conversation she was smiling and happy and we were friends again. We’re still friends to this day. 

Lesson: Stay the course, have some balls, and be strong. It works. 

This article was originally published on April 27, 2020

Comments


  • John 2020-04-27 05:23:06

    Great Article. Some important lessons in there. I think realizing that people actually care much less about your decisions than you think is a big epiphany in your way to becoming alpha. As long as you are confident, have the balls to stay your course and don't give a shit about other peoples opinions, most people will either a) don't care one way or the other or b) suddenly respect you much more.  

  • joelsuf 2020-04-27 08:08:31

    Lesson: Being tough with your parents works. It’s a shame more men don’t have the balls to do this.
    Makes me wonder if I should have stopped taking care of my father when he was struggling with cancer and went back to college like I wanted to. He desperately wanted to move back to Israel since he would have more support but he was worried about me. I specifically remember telling him that I can pick up an entry level job and get a really cheap apartment in the city I went to college at no problem then go back on my own time and dime but he was against it. I really think I should have should have done that without an explanation, forcing him to move back to Israel since he would be on his own.

  • Phero 2020-04-27 09:26:31

    "One has nothing to do with the other. (Most normal people who stumble across this blog probably think I’m insane. Do you think I care?)" "normal" should be in quotes lol

  • Blackdragon 2020-04-27 11:17:13

    I think realizing that people actually care much less about your decisions than you think is a big epiphany in your way to becoming alpha.
    Agree 1000%. Normal people spend SO MUCH FUCKING TIME thinking about what other people think about them, when it fact it's actually shocking how rarely or how little people think about you. People really, really don't give a shit about you. They really don't. Return the favor and stop thinking about them.

  • Pickle Rick 2020-04-27 11:33:14

    Excellent. I have a very similar situation to Caleb in age, finances, lifestyle and whatnot (But I'm not married) and I had to tell my mother off after the age of forty. And after years of verbal abuse. I imagine a lot of guys have an issue with their mom. She also criticized my lifestyle but not for lack of things. She didn't like how I didn't work for a living--at a normal job, like other people. She didn't like how I traveled all over the world (all the Alpha 2.0 things) or how I seemed to brag about money (I didn't really but when you have luxury goods it comes off that way. The Mercedes needs a new window motor and such). One thing I noticed over the years is that I never received any praise from her. You know, something like "You're doing great," or "It's cool that you can speak Spanish." It always seemed as if she was jealous of me. I was visiting during the summer and I had some downtime. Because my folks live out in the sticks of Virginia I stayed with them and not at a hotel. Inevitably, my mom would yell at me as if I was twelve years old and accuse me of some such thing or another. It was always some trivial stupid bullshit but when you're a child it makes you feel like the worst person ever. She had a way of twisting things around. The thing is my dad is such a great guy I would just take it and shut up because I knew an argument between me and my mother would cause a lot of problems for him. Why he is with her I don't know but that's a different generation and another story altogether. After years of this I realized my mother has a mental illness. But try telling that to someone who has never been good at taking criticism. Inevitably, she started yelling at me. And I mean in the most melodramatic way you can imagine. It was as if I murdered puppies for a living or something. Anyway, instead of taking it I told her what I thought. Something to the effect of I wish I had a cool mom instead of you. An argument ensued and she actually lied to fabricate an argument. She threatened to call the police and I never so much as raised my voice. Afterwards we just kept our distance. My dad paid for the window motor for the Mercedes, by the way. I mentioned it and he ordered it for me online without saying anything. That's the kind of guy he is. I keep it civil with my mom but I don't give a fuck what she thinks. This is after years of introducing different girlfriends to her and always wondering if she would approve. It could be worse; it could be better. Right now--especially now--with COVID-19--I live a relatively isolated life. My plans were radically changed by said virus. But there is a sovereignty in knowing that I live my own life by my own standards and by my own moral code. Autonomy and self-possession.

  • Eric Smith 2020-04-27 12:06:47

    yay. currently in the not talking to them until its set up mode

  • POB 2020-04-27 12:32:22

    People really, really don’t give a shit about you. They really don’t.
    It's easier to follow that advice if you are a man. Women (unfortunatelly) have much more BS going on inside their heads. Unless they are young adults, they DO care A LOT about what people think about them (teenagers and mature women are the same in that regard). BTW, looking forward to your OLTR book.

  • CW 2020-04-27 12:49:51

    My parents had a bad habit of demanding things of me. So I stopped talking to them for 6 months. Voila, everything's been smooth since then, no demands and only pleasantness.

  • Blackdragon 2020-04-27 13:04:31

    People really, really don’t give a shit about you. They really don’t. It’s easier to follow that advice if you are a man.
    Correct. One of the many reasons why women aren't in my target audience.
    My parents had a bad habit of demanding things of me. So I stopped talking to them for 6 months. Voila, everything’s been smooth since then, no demands and only pleasantness.
    Yup, that's exactly how it works. Soft nexting works.

  • El Barto 2020-04-28 05:36:01

    I myself haven't experienced that much backlash against being Alpha 2.0. My friends either don't care or are a little bit curious about it. Maybe this also comes from me ditching all the energy vampires and losers in my peergroup. My father is quite curious about it. He used to disagree about me trying to build several income streams and not choosing safety in working a couple of years for a company. But now when I tell how much energy and pleasure being my own boss gives me he at least understands. Me and my brother already told my mom to 'fuck of' way before I even knew about Black Dragon. My mother always wanted us to study and join the same fraternity my uncle, grandfather and countless other family members did. I spent one evening as a guest there and seeing hundreds of intelligent young people behaving like complete douchebags cured me of that. My brother, who was/is more of a surferdude, though the same. One evening when my brother and I were visiting at the same time (we were in our early twenties) my mother was complaining to us about our life choices. My brother told her to 'quit behaving like a bitch' or we would leave. She toned down after that and before she died a couple of years back she told us she was actually proud of our independent mindset, compared to our cousins. Coworkers could be hassle when I used to work in corporate. While nice guys, they just couldn't understand why someone would choose a different path from them, staying at the same  boring job, dealing with mediocre management and drinking beer, dating mediocre women or playing videogames all day after work. With clients I never had any problems. One of the most important aspects of being 2.0 is being honest. And doesn't want to work that?

  • The Capitalist 2020-04-28 06:23:25

    After getting divorced and fully swallowing the red pill, one of the most shocking and difficult to except realities that I discovered was how little people care about each other in general. I was extremely popular in grade school, high school and college.  Always getting lots of love and attention.  And was lucky enough to be raised with very healthy and loving family. Got married (actually had great marriage for first 10 years) and I devoted myself to my wife and kids and busted my ass becoming successful - mostly motivated by providing a good life for them.  Giving my exwife pretty much everything she wanted.  Huge mistake. I have brothers and sisters and a few friends who care about me and I think my kids care to a certain extent, although I rarely see them. But if I didn't reach out to any of those people, my guess is I'd rarely even hear from any of them. So now in my late 40's I see that I should have lived for myself, doing what I really wanted to do instead of doing it all for my exwife as I did. She has zero gratitude and actually makes up bullshit about me to make me out to be the badguy when in reality I couldn't have been much better of a husband or father in my opinion. So I can't recommend enough to all men to be good to others but live for yourself.   Most men have a instinctive urge to help lift women up even if its to their own detriment.   Not to sound bitter but generally speaking the modern woman doesn't appreciate any of it the way I once thought they did. Anyway, sorry for rambling.  Figure out what makes you happy/gets you excited about life and do that. Help women and be good to others all you want and I am truly all for helping others.  Just don't do it so that you'll feel appreciated.. because in today's world any appreciation you get (if any) will be short lived.  So those things should only be done to increase your own self worth / your own sense of pride.  And that's it.

  • The Capitalist 2020-04-28 07:32:49

    As far as sharing details with other people about A 2.0 lifestyle goes, it rarely comes up. I don't go out of my way to tell anyone all the details of my dating life (as mentioned, no one cares that much). If friends or family or business clients ask my status etc. I just say I'm dating. I mean if someone started really asking questions and wanted full details, if it's a fried or fam or whatever, then I answer any questions honestly. Never had any issues. But I don't go around making announcements or bragging or any of that.  So it really doesn't come up in a way that requires me to explain the whole lifestyle. I have mentioned the detailst with my Dad (mom died years ago) and kids. I think my friends just see me a a guy who dates lots of women and isn't interested in marriage at this time.  Although if asked I'd say not interested in marriage ever.  But IF I did get married again someday (not gonna happen) it would be open and  would be private marriage and NEVER would get legally married with marriage license again! If asked I outwardly state I'd only do private marriage if I were to decide to marry again.   No one asks "Would it be a monogamous marriage?" They just assume it.  But since  I HAVE NO intention of ever getting married again, there's no need for me to even mention open marriage.  Why bother?  I'm not getting married so why have the debate. So for me, it's been a non-issue. Friends seeing me as someone who dates around and doesn't get serious is fine. I don't owe anyone any explanation. They just see me as someone who does whatever he wants to do and is free and likes it that way.  Which is true. I've had zero problems with it.  

  • Blackdragon 2020-04-28 09:46:51

    As far as sharing details with other people about A 2.0 lifestyle goes, it rarely comes up.
    That's also a good point. Again, people don't care, meaning they don't really ask.
    If friends or family or business clients ask my status etc. I just say I’m dating.
    That was my standard answer before I got married, yes. And people accepted it.
    If asked I outwardly state I’d only do private marriage if I were to decide to marry again. No one asks “Would it be a monogamous marriage?” They just assume it.
    Correct. Pretty much everyone in the universe who knows me or PF, besides those in my personal inner circle, assume that our marriage is a normal, everyday TMM. (OLTR Marriages look completely normal to everyone from the outside looking in.) This is despite the fact I'm publicly saying in YouTube videos that I regularly have sex with other women, which is hilarious. But again, people just don't give a shit.

  • Sonny 2020-04-28 11:22:52

    Hi Caleb, I'm a bit surprised you found the need to speak to your mother in law and explain your life style / strategy as well as your OLTR marriage to her. No offense but I felt you called this kind of behavior " beta " As an Alpha 2.0 shouldn't you have just not cared and not spoken to her at all.  

  • Blackdragon 2020-04-28 11:39:48

    I’m a bit surprised you found the need to speak to your mother in law and explain your life style / strategy as well as your OLTR marriage to her. No offense but I felt you called this kind of behavior ” beta ”
    Context. If she was just a woman I was dating, like an FB or MLTR, then yes, caring about what her mom thinks would have been extremely beta. I don't give a rat fuck about what any woman I've ever had sex with's mom would think or not think about our relationship and never have. But this was a woman I was going to actually marry (my version), integrate into my family, and live with for the very long term. Entirely different scenario. If her mother was furious about the whole thing that would have caused problems with PF, which would have caused problems in the marriage, which would have caused problems for me. Thus it was a necessary action to take to prevent future drama and conflict. Which it did.

  • C Lo 2020-04-28 12:08:03

    It’s easier to follow that advice if you are a man.

    Women (unfortunatelly) have much more BS going on inside their heads.
    This is the truth, kinda. I’m not sure anyone actually gives a shit about anyone else, but some people will damn sure judge you for your choices.  It’s the worst of both worlds. Somebody told me (unsolicited) that one of the things they really respected about me was how people would talk shit about me and I didn’t care at all.  I knew my mindset was right. I do what I want.  And I’m not for everyone.
    She has zero gratitude and actually makes up bullshit about me to make me out to be the badguy when in reality I couldn’t have been much better of a husband or father in my opinion.
    I went through a similar experience, but have a different opinion of the dynamic of women and their need for security. A recently engaged woman I know told me straight up that the less secure a woman is in her relationship, the hotter her sex life is. If you think about it a little, how much worse did your sex life get the moment you said I do? And as time goes on, that security morphs into entitlement and that turns into permission to take you for granted, ending in divorce because you disrespected her which FORCED HER to have an affair because she had so much disdain for you and she was horny and therefore you are an awful person.  Or some other chick logic bullshit like that.  You get the drift. The trick is to not give a shit if they leave.  Most people want to pair bond and that’s hard to balance actually being bonded and not giving a shit about someone leaving because those two concepts are diametrically opposed. Caleb has found a way to thread the needle, but I can’t pull it off.  It’s too easy for me too get comfortable and slip back into boyfriend behavior, which FEEDS that dynamic of getting taken for granted. My uncle used to say “treat them like shit for the first three months and see where you are at.”  There’s a certain wisdom there. I’m glad Caleb steered the blog back to content like this.

  • Sonny 2020-04-28 14:44:37

    Caleb, Can you please do a blog on how to clearly  demonstrate outcome independence to women on dates as an Alpha male 2.0 A way to show women that you don't care whether you like her or not , you're confident and content either way. You can't literally say " you don't like me , it's fine ...  no big deal ,  I'll just find someone else prettier "  and expect that to work even if that's what an Alpha 2.0 is most likely thinking in his head. The thing is not every guy out there looks like Chris Hemsworth, I know I don't , so we need another way to get attraction out of women . I genuinely think it can help a lot of your readers Other viewers please give your opinion. Do you think this topic is worthwhile to you    

  • Blackdragon 2020-04-28 16:02:18

    Can you please do a blog on how to clearly demonstrate outcome independence to women on dates as an Alpha male 2.0
    That's better for videos; I have several videos planned for that topic.

  • C Lo 2020-04-28 18:03:18

    You can’t literally say ” you don’t like me , it’s fine …  no big deal ,  I’ll just find someone else prettier ”  and expect that to work
    you are right, you can’t. If she overtly says that to you, say exactly this: ”okay.  I wish you well!” And never call/text/interact her again. if she comes back great, set up a meet and fuck her, if not even better. Also, be aware the reason why you are getting that talk is there’s another dude more than likely. Keep that in mind when she comes back. Yeah, I wrote when.  They always come back if you aren’t needy.

  • AlphaOmega 2020-04-29 02:54:50

    Normal people spend SO MUCH FUCKING TIME thinking about what other people think about them, when it fact it’s actually shocking how rarely or how little people think about you.
    I believe there there is quote by Churchill which goes something like " when you are 20 you care a lot about what everything thinks about you, when you are 40 you stop caring what they think and when you are 60 you realize they never thought of you at all". It is kinda the same with presentations people often get stressed giving them because they think everyone pays attention but the reality most of the time no one pays attention or at least wont remember anything.

  • hey hey 2020-04-29 05:59:15

    when you are 20 you care a lot about what everything thinks about you, when you are 40 you stop caring what they think and when you are 60 you realize they never thought of you at all”.
    Im assuming Churchill didnt account for the different ages and lifestyles. At 20 you have a lot of friends and you do have fun life that you care about the opinions that will ruin your future. Like women care if they are going to be labelled as whores and sluts the rest of their life. At 40 you are at an age in which you accomplished much of SP BS, you dont have many friends left because of your marriage and you dont have much future in you left to care what anyone else things of you. You created your image already. At 60 you are old with minimal life, few things going in your life that no one ever cares about you anymore. But that doesnt mean that when you were younger people didnt think what you are doing or what you are up to. Some do. And its part of their ego and self esteem. "Im doing better than him". So his saying doesnt make much sense for the typical person. If you are doing things right in your life you shouldnt care(aka 2.0 lifestyle) as your life is great anyway and any typical married person will see that. Even if they dont understand how you run your life. If you are doing shit in your life you should care. Its one of your best hopes for better life. Imagine being an alcoholic and dont care about what others think. Where this will take you?

  • Pseudonymous User 2020-04-29 08:45:34

    Can you please do a blog on how to clearly demonstrate outcome independence to women on dates as an Alpha male 2.0
    The amazing thing to realize is that most of the things you want your women to feel are the default. I've had women explicitly tell me they're jealous that I'm "fooling around" with other women even though I happened to be de facto monogamous in some of those cases. I've had women say I didn't give a fuck about them even in cases where I actually cared and did some tangible, hard to obtain elsewhere, things to help them reach their goals. You'll put them into the right mindset if you just Shut The Fuck Up. Don't offer exclusivity, don't initiate beta things, don't start talks about the relationship and you'll be surprised how they see you as exactly the figure you want to project without you having to lift a finger. The less information they have the more they let their imagination run wild. Women are different and it takes time and effort to find out what floats this particular woman's boat, but her imagination automatically paints an image of you that's tailored to her personality. It's like one of the easiest techniques salespeople employ, having the counterpart negotiate against themselves.

  • Blackdragon 2020-04-29 09:37:12

    I believe there there is quote by Churchill which goes something like ” when you are 20 you care a lot about what everything thinks about you, when you are 40 you stop caring what they think and when you are 60 you realize they never thought of you at all”.
    That's awesome. The goal is to get to that age-60 status right now, regardless of how old you are.
    You’ll put them into the right mindset if you just Shut The Fuck Up. Don’t offer exclusivity, don’t initiate beta things, don’t start talks about the relationship and you’ll be surprised how they see you as exactly the figure you want to project without you having to lift a finger.
    EXACTLY.

  • Damian 2020-04-30 00:32:44

    I recently decided to come out as an alpha 2.0 a cannot agree more that people really don't give a shit i do get a lot of my friends asking me about it because they cant quite wrap their heads around the concept (especially because most of these guys date multiple women in secret) but truth be told the girls respect my honesty because they expect most guys to lie about it, when they see that you don't give a fuck it just puts you that much further above other men.

  • AlphaOmega 2020-04-30 03:54:30

    I see that nowadays it is more and more accepted that one might be dating multiple women but I see most people still cannot accept or comprehend the idea that its not mutually exclusive to care deeply for someone while dating others. I wonder if this will change or how to explain this part? But I feel it is probably something that cannot be explained because they simply do not want to understand this.

    Don’t offer exclusivity, don’t initiate beta things, don’t start talks about the relationship and you’ll be surprised how they see you as exactly the figure you want to project without you having to lift a finger. The less information they have the more they let their imagination run wild. Women are different and it takes time and effort to find out what floats this particular woman’s boat, but her imagination automatically paints an image of you that’s tailored to her personality.
    I recently dated for many month a girl who is a type who would never be up for this kind of stuff and definitely wanted only something very serious but during the whole time she did not bring anything up even when there were hints or evidence of other women. I messed it up when I spent 3 days in a row with her after which she shortly later decided suddenly she doesnt wanna see me anymore at all since we "dont have much in common". I felt I can break that rule because I started to see her as someone who would never leave no matter what so I didn't care anymore, I guess that was a mistake.

  • Pseudonymous User 2020-04-30 04:15:31

    I messed it up when I spent 3 days in a row with her after which she shortly later decided suddenly she doesnt wanna see me anymore at all since we “dont have much in common”.
    The second girl I dated according to BD's techniques was about to leave the country. (Which was the stated reason her previous BF dumped her. I, on the other hand, gave her some English lessons.) She was an FB or a low-end MLTR at that point, I wasn't experienced enough to make a precise classification. BD was clear that spending lots of time with these women, and particularly taking them on trips, is a big no-no. But precisely because she was leaving in two months, I decided to see what exactly happens and we went to the seaside for a weekend trip. Long story short, she got all lovey-dovey during the trip and dumped me when we returned. I was always a nonconformist, but lately I've been thinking how convenient it is to fit into other people's preconceived notions. Having expectations broken is almost physically painful, and that's what likely happened for both you and me, both because we displayed closeness inconsistent with our previous images, and also possibly because during that period of closeness they learned something likewise unexpected about us. The above point also aligns well with this BD's post. Just have people think you're a playboy and have them envy you, hardly any downsides to that. “Oh, that’s Caleb being Caleb I guess” is a perfect attitude for other people to have about you.

  • AlphaOmega 2020-04-30 04:48:42

    I was always a nonconformist, but lately I’ve been thinking how convenient it is to fit into other people’s preconceived notions. Having expectations broken is almost physically painful, and that’s what likely happened for both you and me, both because we displayed closeness inconsistent with our previous images, and also possibly because during that period of closeness they learned something likewise unexpected about us.
    Thats something I did previously with other women with her it was almost the opposite but also wrong. What I did was let her stay in my house for 3 days whilst I had to work. She was bored out of her mind. But that wasn't all I also realized this was too much time and started to get annoyed with her to the point that I probably let it show. I have seen many cases where when a woman thinks she will get dumped she will dump you immediately so that shes the one to do it. I believe strongly that this is what happened. Anyway you look at it the clear mistake was I just let her stay too long.

  • POB 2020-04-30 06:41:21

    Don’t offer exclusivity, don’t initiate beta things, don’t start talks about the relationship and you’ll be surprised how they see you as exactly the figure you want to project without you having to lift a finger.
    Not only that, but they'll keep seeing you like this forever...as long as you don't change your ways. It really works!

  • TheMaleBrain 2020-04-30 10:01:04

    I'm an Israeli, and our people are nosy. So my strategy is mainly to STFU. With regards to mom and dad - no issue. They know I have MLTRs, and wish me luck. They have not met, but heard a little about them. As long as I'm happy, and not hurting anyone, they're cool with it. My brother wishes me luck (he's married) but the problem came from my sister-in-law. She's a rabid feminist, and tried repeatedly to talk to me about it. She took it to heart claiming I'm "misleading those poor girls". I can't state how much I told my MLTRs that "there is enough bad things happening in the world and I don't want to add to it. So if you [my MLTR] suffer with me - you should leave". Eventually we decided to not talk about it. My friends - they know, were curious and some of them even met one of my MLTRs (I tend to get some of my friends to meet one and not the other). All of them " accept it" or ignore it. As per MLTR families - I have met them (maybe 3-4 times a year) and all is well. The MLTR acts as if we have a regular relationship (which is somewhat true), and have learned to also STFU. I basically don't talk about it, so colleagues/clients/co-workers mostly have no idea. A situation that works very well for me. Here's the funny part - I'm an extrovert. One would imagine that I'll be all over myself publishing my success. But I know better. My advise is to STFU. Talk less, sleep with females more. It's like the old programmers joke: "Why does the sun rises in the east and sets in the west? IT WORKS, DON'T TOUCH IT.

  • Blackdragon 2020-04-30 10:52:07

    I see that nowadays it is more and more accepted that one might be dating multiple women but I see most people still cannot accept or comprehend the idea that its not mutually exclusive to care deeply for someone while dating others. I wonder if this will change or how to explain this part?
    Don't explain it to anyone. You shouldn't care.
    But I feel it is probably something that cannot be explained because they simply do not want to understand this.
    That's why you shouldn't explain it.
    It’s like the old programmers joke: “Why does the sun rises in the east and sets in the west? IT WORKS, DON’T TOUCH IT."
    Love it!

  • AlphaOmega 2020-04-30 12:32:22

    That’s why you shouldn’t explain it.
    The problem is my burning desire to lecture people and explain stuff to them. Thats why I love doing consulting but I struggle keeping that shit out of my private life but I am working on it.

  • Blackdragon 2020-04-30 14:31:57

    The problem is my burning desire to lecture people and explain stuff to them.
    Severe outcome dependence. Set a goal to fix that problem. It's a big one.

  • The Capitalist 2020-05-01 05:29:56

    @ C Lo I agree with your post however I was actually satisfied with my sex life while married.  I've always had an extremely high sex drive.  Before getting married I had many talks with her about how if she wasn't interested or up for having sex daily (if missed 1 - 2 days a week not a deal breaker but having sex less than 4-5 times a week was a dealbreaker) for as long as she was able then we shouldn't get married.   She was well aware that if I didn't get sex 4-5 times a week I would have divorced her immediately.   So we had sex 4-7 days a week for almost 15 years.  She "fell out of love with me" she said later but she hid that fact and ended up cheating.  So for about 10 months she was hooking up with a guy while all along, yes I was fucking her daily.  In the end it was just all the lies I uncovered and deception that I just couldn't get past.  That and after I caught her she stopped hiding the fact that she "fell out of love with me"  so I divorced her. But you're right, I provided too much security.  I bought into some Disney BS back then and like many men, I was raised to think providing security was a good thing to do. You mentioned struggling with getting too comfortable with women you date which causes problems for you... I was on this blog for several years following A 2.0 in every way accept sometimes I allowed defacto monogamy.  I had a similar issue that sounds like you may have with getting comfortable.  In fact, something I learned about myself, if I start fucking a girl that is just "ok" and I'm not fucking anyone else I can get attached. After years of considering Caleb's advice, I finally accepted a reality that would complete my A 2.0 transformation... I now know that for me personally, I actually HAVE to be dating more than 1 woman at a time.  Doing that corrects my tendency to get emotionally attached. Therefore, if I'm going to date (sometimes I go monk mode for a month or so once or twice a year to focus on getting to the next level with something else) I must always be seeing more than one girl. As long as I'm seeing more than one woman at a time, my emotions stay in check naturally.  I find that I feel completely solid as a man with no emotional bullshit,  neediness, or any other bitch feelings or behavior. I'm also solid with proper masculine mindset during those monk mode periods when I don't date and focus on getting to next level on something else. So its multiple women or none.  Learning this about myself was. HUGE.    

  • AlphaOmega 2020-05-01 06:34:48

    Severe outcome dependence. Set a goal to fix that problem. It’s a big one.
    Already in progress. I tried to work on it myself but it only worked so far or for a limited time. When I forced myself to do it I later got a burning need to contact the people again and "show them whos right". So now I started a counseling. Otherwise, with this stuff I am pretty good. I see that indeed most people either don't care or I don't care if they care. Also my experience for the personal part is that almost half of the time people assume its a joke because it seems over the top to them (and then they stop asking more personal questions) or they get really curious and ask how does that work. For the business/flags strategy side though I never experienced any negative comments whatsoever, generally everyone agrees its a good idea but usually say its not for them.

  • Sonny 2020-05-01 09:26:51

    Caleb, Why do women have this thing where they need their parents approval before they marry somebody , even in today's day and age ? No offence but I'm sure you're not the first guy PF has had sex with , so like did her mom screen her previous sex partners too ? Wasn't she like in her mid thirties ( or older ) when you both decided to get OLTR married ? Its not like you asked for an 18 year old virgin's hand in marriage. Then again " woman - logic " !

  • Ilia 2020-05-01 09:36:52

    I was briefly dating two girls for a few months when something strange happened. I lost all attraction to the first girl. She wasn't exactly my type to begin with, but the last few times we saw each other I couldn't even get it up, so we stopped seeing each other. Then I got lazy, wasn't trying very hard to set up dates, and right as corona started getting serious I got LSNFTE'd out of the blue. Defacto monogamy sucks. I'm able to keep it together and portray an Alpha 2.0 image on the outside, but I don't feel that way on the inside. Never again.

  • CTV 2020-05-01 10:49:06

    Try being an Alpha 2.0 (Getting there) and a guy who practices Mode One like my boy ARC preaches. And who's a Thrill of the Hunt guy.. Nobody forgets who I am.. Nothing like telling a chick to her face you're not looking to do more than fuck and don't plan on being monogamous. You two are my mentors.. I feel that you naturally will end up on a Swing and/or BDSM scene eventually if you like to be above Board and be Assertive about being non monogamous. I catch the least shit there, if any. You will crash and burn on say the Party Scene if you're like me.. for that scene is full of fun clubbers, betas, alpha 1.0 who are the most beta IMO, and rich guys that will give out free attention, drugs, and spend money that you won't. I'm currently in school for my Masters so I can change careers and get my location independent business. Only thing is a I'd have have licences for the states I'm practicing in. I got the GI Bill Caleb so costs are low.. The only thing I'd have to really pay for is if I pursue a Doctorate.

  • Blackdragon 2020-05-01 13:32:52

    Why do women have this thing where they need their parents approval before they marry somebody , even in today’s day and age ?
    They don't in the Western world. That's an Asian / Indian thing.
    No offence but I’m sure you’re not the first guy PF has had sex with
    Wait... what??? WTF?!? HOLY FUCK!!! THAT'S IT!!! I'M DIVORCING HER RIGHT NOW!!!!!
    so like did her mom screen her previous sex partners too ?
    None of them were in open relationships with her that they told everyone about over the internet.
    Wasn’t she like in her mid thirties ( or older ) when you both decided to get OLTR married ?
    Yes. I purposely wanted a woman in her mid-thirties who looked like she was in her twenties to settle down with. Marrying a young girl is a stupid idea.
    I was briefly dating two girls for a few months when something strange happened. I lost all attraction to the first girl. She wasn’t exactly my type to begin with, but the last few times we saw each other I couldn’t even get it up, so we stopped seeing each other. Then I got lazy, wasn’t trying very hard to set up dates, and right as corona started getting serious I got LSNFTE‘d out of the blue. Defacto monogamy sucks. I’m able to keep it together and portray an Alpha 2.0 image on the outside, but I don’t feel that way on the inside. Never again.
    Very important message. I hope you're all reading that very carefully.
    Try being an Alpha 2.0 (Getting there) and a guy who practices Mode One like my boy ARC preaches. And who’s a Thrill of the Hunt guy.. Nobody forgets who I am.. Nothing like telling a chick to her face you’re not looking to do more than fuck and don’t plan on being monogamous. You two are my mentors..
    Roger's a good guy. We have radically different styles but I like him a lot.
    I’m currently in school for my Masters so I can change careers and get my location independent business.
    Not smart. You don't need to Masters degree to have you own business. I don't have a college degree or even a high school diploma. And I've had my own business since I was 24.

  • Leon 2020-05-02 00:21:23

    If her mother was furious about the whole thing that would have caused problems with PF, which would have caused problems in the marriage, which would have caused problems for me. Thus it was a necessary action to take to prevent future drama and conflict. Which it did.
    In case her mother (or her whole parents) wasn't cool with it, how would that affect your plan to ''marry'' her? Do it anyway? Downgrade her to MLTR? Even if you are outcome independent and process as planned, there might be problems down the road that brings drama (as you said). I don't think you would want that. Great and very practical article anyway!

  • Blackdragon 2020-05-02 10:43:48

    In case her mother (or her whole parents) wasn’t cool with it, how would that affect your plan to ”marry” her?
    It would depend on A) how severely they disliked it and B) how close (both physically and emotionally) they were to PF. If they just mildly disliked it and turned their noses up at it but that's all, I would have proceeded. If they had flown into rage about it and could not be calmed down, I would still have proceeded if PF wasn't physically or emotionally that close to them and didn't need to spend very much time with them. But if she still wanted to hang out with them and/or talk to them on the phone all the time under those conditions, then yes, I would have downgraded her to MLTR. Such a woman would not qualify for OLTR.
    Even if you are outcome independent and process as planned, there might be problems down the road that brings drama (as you said). I don’t think you would want that.
    Correct. Moving in with a woman who has the high potential for drama, including family drama, is a very, very stupid thing to do and way too many men do that. Unlike MLTRs, women who want to be your OLTR have requirements to meet or else they don't qualify.

  • Sonny 2020-05-02 11:39:47

    Caleb, I'm not judging PF for her age or her (previous) partners. Both these things are a normal fact of life. I was initally surprised the need arose for you to have to explain things to her mom but which made sense later since you are A) famous B) in an unconventional open relationship Ultimately you and pink firefly have to build your own lives together and deal with life's challenges on your own and her / your parents & family as well as friends don't really have their skin in the game, they're just spectators.

  • Mario 2020-05-02 13:42:52

    When PF and I were dating, PF's sister found this blog and (of course) immediately showed her mom.
    How have your interactions been with PF's sister, both in the past and in the present? Have you also had a one-on-one chat with her like you did with PF's mom?

  • Blackdragon 2020-05-02 13:48:44

    How have your interactions been with PF’s sister, both in the past and in the present?
    I had only met her one time at that point. She was friendly.
    Have you also had a one-on-one chat with her like you did with PF’s mom?
    No. Outside of her mom and dad what PF's family thinks of me or my relationship with her is not relevant to me.

  • CTV 2020-05-03 12:46:04

    My bad Caleb.. When I said Masters degree I didn't specify. I'm in Psych and I need that degree for licensing.. From there I'm location independent as long I'm certified in that State. And since my GI Bill was going to expire I didn't want to flush it down the toilet. I didn't state the context or reason, my fault on that one.. An MBA really is pointless for an Alpha 2.0 style biz unless he wants to be a Private Practice Accountant then he can be everyones Tax Boi and make lots of money.. Yes I'm an ENTJ extraverted and like being assertive and upfront. Without being Alpha 1.0 and causing fights and drama. So you can see where I'm more with ARC style. And I'm sure you can see where being assertive and upfront about having intentions of being non monogamous that the BDSM/Kink scene is where you end up (which I've read is heavy on ENTJ personalities). And you can see how my Thrill of the Hunt attitude has me suffering in this COVID-19 shit..

  • Sonny 2020-05-05 11:56:26

    Caleb, If you have an MLTR , what do you tell people when they ask you if you have a girlfriend or not ?