One of the recurring questions I keep seeing is whether or not the USA will end up in some kind of civil war between the alt-lite/alt-right/Trump supporters and the left-wing/Antifa/progressive types.
Political infighting is worse right now than in any time in my lifetime, and I’m 46 years old. According to many people older than me, even the turbulent 1960’s wasn’t as bad as now. That’s saying a lot. So it’s no wonder that people are concerned that perhaps all this irrational anger from people fighting over an already doomed nation will descend into actual civil war.
But you don’t need to worry.
Because it won’t.
There will be no civil war in the US. The entire idea is laughable.
Americans of today are not the Americans of the 1860s. Those Americans were tough, hard-working, ruthlessly independent farmers, hunters, frontiersmen, and entrepreneurs. They were diligent and rugged locksmiths, carpenters, shoemakers, blacksmiths, masons, teamsters, mechanics and so on. They lived hard lives that they chose to live. Even the city-dwelling politicians and such were hardcore, gun-toting, no-nonsense Alpha Males.
The American of today is a fat, stupid, stressed out beta male who cowers in front of his girlfriend/wife (if he’s even got one of those and isn’t celibate) of whom he is utterly terrified (namely, that she might leave him) and is addicted to drugs (caffeine, cigarettes, weed, prescription drugs, or something else), has never even seen an actual gun in his real life, would be terrified if he did, works in an air-conditioned cubicle by staring at a screen all day, and can barely be motivated to get off the couch and do anything heroic or even constructive if it meant putting down his beer and putting a temporary end to his binge-watching something stupid on Netflix.
The idea that this guy is actually going to pick up a rifle and start shooting someone because he hates left-wingers or Trump supporters is hilarious in the extreme. Even if he did have the balls and motivation to even attempt something like this, one or two angry screams from his girlfriend/wife will put him right back in his place. Even if this didn’t happen he’d be more liable to shoot himself than actually shoot someone else. (I personally know three different men who have shot themselves in various body parts with guns because they were idiots.)
On top of that, left-wingers hate guns. In an actual warlike conflict between the left and the right, the right would win almost instantly, and I think left-wingers know that (even Noam Chomsky said it!). And again, most of the American right-wing are still those frustrated but timid and pussywhipped betas I just described. They aren’t going to put their lives, jobs, marriages/relationships, children, TV, and money at risk by actually going out and shooting anyone. (Lone psychos are always the rare statistical exception to the rule.)
That all being said, political unrest will increase in the USA as it slowly slides towards collapse. You will indeed see more protests, more internet drama, more, yes, more violence. All of that stuff will increase and that’s one of the many reasons I’ve decided to leave.
But a full-on civil war? No. It will never happen here. Wars are fought by men with balls, and the American man lost his balls a long time ago.
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CrabRangoon
Posted at 07:32 am, 19th December 2018Totally agree here. Most men are pussified to the nth degree today and would never dare to start any kind of true conflict or war. Most MEN, not women, are disturbed by the fact I own a gun so there you go(women seem to be more intrigued by it oddly enough-maybe it taps into that need they have for security). I don’t have some treasure trove of weapons but always felt it was important to know how to properly handle various types of firearms and to have one in the home in the off chance someone tried to harm me in my own home.
One of my good buddies recently called his wife “the boss” which is the kind of thing that reinforces what you said about the women in their lives forbidding them from starting up anything. I also told him never to say that in front of me again haha-way too cringe worthy (they’re a classic beta male/dominant woman couple though so not at all surprising).
The rhetoric will get increasingly hostile I think but it’ll all be done from the safety of a computer screen. The collapse seems to be getting closer and lately this country just put the balls to the wall in the throttle. Seeing how the most popular politicians are guys like Bernie Sanders and their favorite new darling Alexandra Cortez who openly support full on socialism, can’t be much longer. In a a “capitalist” society (i know we haven’t had true capitalism in some time though) you have winners and losers and eventually enough of the losers unite and start demanding all the free stuff. A soft society feels it has to do “what’s right” and start giving in to their demands, thus begins the unraveling.
Pelicanus
Posted at 08:10 am, 19th December 2018I am reminded by the wise lecture(s) given by the late Yuri Bezmenov… (see his YouTube videos).
to first subvert a nation takes at least a generation to de-moralise a nation in order to precipitate a crisis that can then be exploited by the socialists to take power under the guise of ‘normalising’ the situation.
Demoralise in this sense means to destroy a society’s moral standards from within so that the populace don’t know (& don’t care) what’s right from wrong (or what’s male and female). With the insanity evident in the USA that point has been reached.
Yuri Bezmenov takes pains to point out that only way to stop the process is through strong, decisive action which means putting the ‘useful idiots’ up against a wall.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:43 am, 19th December 2018That.
Yup. The left-wingers did it with Obama (bailing out Wall Street again, maintaining Bush’s massive spending and borrowing levels, corporatist healthcare, etc, etc) and the right-wingers did it with Trump (cutting taxes by hundreds billions then jacking up spending by $1.2 Trillion the very next month, attacking Syria and Niger, increasing the war in Afghanistan, etc, etc). And Americans will do it yet again with the next president after Trump, who is very likely going to be a socialist. Americans don’t want to save their country.
Good times.
Yeah, my thing is that with only one exception (the American Revolution) not one major revolution in all of history (that I can think of anyway) resulted in a new government that gave the people more freedom rather than less (or the same).
Johnny Ringo
Posted at 11:21 am, 19th December 2018I normally agree with you.
I still think the logical end to all of this is violence. News media essentially gets people to feel rather than think.
When people are feeling, they are not thinking.
When they are not thinking, it leads to irrational things.
Rationality in this country is going away seemingly, not making a return.
These beta types are so feminine in nature, but even females can be brought to violence when a belief becomes emboldened or when a strong figurehead riles the emotions.
The Trump debacle is one huge example. It’s one part witch hunt and one part double standards. The rulers have never had rulers, but it’s all out in the open now.
When a conclusion comes down, on either side, on Trump’s fate, it’s a slippery slope either way the verdict rolls.
There is no sound political process. No justice.
How is it achieved?
Same as always.
CTV
Posted at 11:48 am, 19th December 2018Well Caleb we forgot to mention the Right Winger Alpha 1.0 type that think their badass/alphas by getting involved in frivolous nonsense real life drama.. and nonsense political drama.. telling everyone how they have all the guns.. when in reality they’re just as big, if not bigger pussies.
It’s funny I’m really starting to see that many Alpha 1.0’s (not all) Alpha 1.0’s are really just another version of Beta. More like a loud mouth Beta that have deluded themselves into thinking their bad asses. Again not all but I’d say more than half.
And then the ANTIFA has deluded them self into thinking they’re against Facism when in practice they’re doing the bidding of the Authoritarian Left and their Ulterior Motives.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 01:25 pm, 19th December 2018Violence is not a civil war. I’m quite sure there will be more violence, but not a war.
Correct.
Both the extreme left and extreme right are authoritarians. I’ve had guys on both the left (“Ban capitalism!”) and the right (“Shouldn’t we just become authoritarian under Trump? Wouldn’t that be better?”) openly support authoritarianism at this very blog.
As has been said before, when the left or the right become extreme, they form a circle and ideologically meet each other.
The New Yorker
Posted at 01:54 pm, 19th December 2018I only agree with the notion of the modern pussy American partially.
New York and the Northeast in general seem to resemble Eastern Europe (Just as socialist as California, but with worse climate and slightly tougher assholes instead of false smiles).
In fact, some Alpha Male celebrities like Joe Rogan grew up in the Northeast. Rogan even tells the story of how he once saw a truck lose control on ice and slide across the intersection. While the car spun out of control, the driver just calmly took a sip of coffee, then straightened out his car and drove off.
However, outside of the Northeast and maybe some Southern states like Texas, I do agree with the assessment on average Americans nowadays.
The way I see it,
West Coast: Scandinavia
Northeast: Eastern Europe
The South: Red Dead Redemption
Florida: Grand Theft Auto
The Midwest: South Park?
Michael
Posted at 02:15 pm, 19th December 2018Love reading your content Caleb but Noam Chomsky is one of the top thinkers alive.
Marty McFly
Posted at 07:54 pm, 19th December 2018IMO the collapse already happened with the bailouts back in ‘08. That was the day the music died. Now it’s just a long, slow, amortizing decay into sociopolitical and economic irrelevancy. You won’t even notice, but the quality of life in America will gradually decline year after year.
The Lord Humungus
Posted at 01:40 am, 20th December 2018I agree, but not necessarily for the reasons you mention.
Only something like 5% of the population actively participated in the fighting in the American revolution, so its certainly possible to have massive upheaval and fighting without the average person getting involved.
And yes liberals hate guns being legal, but the far left (the 5% or so on that side) have no problems using violence and being hypocritical with their personal use of weapons. See Antifa, communists throughout history, etc.
The one reason I think there will not be a ‘civil war” is simply because there aren’t two sides. the demographics and ideologies in this country are far more fractured that that. I think we will see a breakup or balkanization of the country, with spats of violence, but not an all out civil war. I agree with Vox Day’s approximate timetable, with a breakup likely around the mid 2030’s
Investor
Posted at 02:52 am, 20th December 2018Yes. Especially on the left, its so pathetic the fact that what is considered the left is a bunch of many different groups and ideologies which openly hate each other. There could even be full on violent civil war just within the left. But the war wont happen for another reason. We don’t really have such types of conflicts anymore. Nowadays its more like cold wars, media was, trade wars, indoctrination wars, war by immigration etc etc. Civil war is too conventional for current times.
Antekirtt
Posted at 03:15 am, 20th December 2018He’s a very mixed bag. I guess the one thing CJ agrees with him on (which I kinda don’t) is the idea that the hatred for the US in MENA is mostly the fault of the US (“we created the monsters” style) and that it would vanish if it stopped bombing/ intervening in the region. It probably should, but as someone who originated there, I think this is only partially true. But that’s also because I don’t have enough faith in libertarianism to think that non-intervention is enough to protect a country from toxic and expansionist ideologies (religious included). In that I agree a bit more with Sam Harris.
Chomsky also gets it wrong on other levels too, but to be fair, very smart people do blunder when their intelligence and polymath tendencies lead them to express opinions on a bit too many wildly different topics.
Anon
Posted at 05:12 am, 20th December 2018Were Romanians more free under Ceaușescu? Did the Berlin Wall provide freedom? Or maybe the people of the Baltic states should not have revolted against the USSR on the same grounds?
Michael
Posted at 11:29 am, 20th December 2018Sam Harris is a great mind as well. I think CJ’s personal libertarian ideas such as consistent sex via non-monogamy, working nonstop until a sustainable 100k entrepreneurial business is established, world travel, and being in shape is great alternative to the normal western societal path.
One of Chomsky’s great recent contributions is to point out the top dangers we face as a species; nuclear war, climate change, and technological disruption. If our tech overlords (bezos, zuckerberg, musk, brin, cook) don’t figure out a way to deal with climate change and technological disruption, being an in shape, rich business owner who has routine casual sex with 8+ won’t matter.
Johnny Ringo
Posted at 01:19 pm, 20th December 2018It is true that the factions are quite split. It wouldn’t be conventional.
Good points.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 01:39 pm, 20th December 2018Actually the music died almost a decade before that. The collapse of the USA began around 1999 – 2001. Our last chance to turn this around was the 90s.
Correct.
Yes, and I think the actual number was 3%. But that doesn’t change what I said. The 3% of the left and right willing to actually take up arms and shoot people in the head are spread out all over the country; massing them would be next to impossible, and everyone would know what they’re doing well before they did it, and even those 3% are subject to what I said in the article (disapproving wives, laziness, etc).
Yes, good point.
That would be the greatest thing to ever happen to this country (other than its founding), as I said here. I can only hope America breaks up into many tiny countries. That would be exciting.
The fall of the Berlin Wall was not a revolution, nor was the fall of the iron curtain. Good point about Ceaușescu, but even he was a part of the iron curtain falling. Though I admit that’s a grey area.
Anon
Posted at 06:43 am, 21st December 2018The Iron Curtain was ready to fall, its foundations weren’t solid anymore by that point, but it was people’s decisive actions that finally toppled it.
Don’t all the other revolutions happen the same way? A tyrant’s stranglehold weakens, and people liberate themselves, which they couldn’t have done at the tyrant’s prime.
Now they may well install a worse tyrant instead, which is what you’re arguing happens all the time, but I’m sure you’re exaggerating. What I would agree with though is that people don’t value their freedom all that much till they’re substantially deprived of it, but in the fires of the ensuing revolution their judgment as to the dictator’s successor is impaired, not to mention that ability to ride the waves of revolting masses is highly correlated with propensity to exploit said masses.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:03 am, 21st December 2018No. By revolution I mean an angry, motivated mob topples their government in a reasonably forceful way. That doesn’t really describe the fall iron curtain which mostly was ready to fall by itself, but again, I realize that’s an arguable point.
That isn’t my argument. I’m not arguing a worse tyrant is always installed. I’m arguing that when the revolution is over and settled, the people don’t experience any increase in overall freedom. They either have less freedom or the same. And no, that’s not an exaggeration; that’s how it has been the vast majority of time throughout human history.
joelsuf
Posted at 08:11 am, 23rd December 2018Fixed. That is EXACTLY when we began to embrace full statism. Our elder statesmen finally realized that it was possible to use “protecting the US and her interests across the globe” as a way to sucker people into paying more taxes. Everything after that can be traced down to that one point.
It’ll probably be earlier than that. I’m guessing that Trump will make a complete 180 and be full blown socialist after he gets re-elected in 2020.
Much as I enjoy talking about this stuff, I’m more concerned about how I’m going to adjust to it all. With individuals having less and less freedom of choice I know my days in the US are going to be over pretty soon and if I want to be happier and healthier going into my 40s I will need to move.
Libertarian Forum
Posted at 12:48 am, 10th January 2019The elites keep tightening the screws building the police state. A few nutjobs will go postal and the 1% will use these events to tighten the noose some more.
The ruling class will use recessions to call for more bailouts and welfare to make Americans weak and dependent. The elites will then use their control of the media to spread propaganda that the economy is booming. The 1% will keep using this plan until the Ponzi economy implodes.
After the economy collapses, cash will be worthless, ATM cards won’t work, bank accounts will be zeroed out, there will be inflation, deflation, banks will shut, bankruptcies and foreclosures will rise, businesses will close, unemployment will soar, there will be bail-ins, capital controls, negative interest rates, bank runs, bank holidays, gold may be outlawed, riots will break out, martial law will be declared, concentration camps will be opened, a civil war will start, and the ruling powers will try to start WWIII with China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran to distract the population.
The future is certain. The only question is when.
Ramphastos
Posted at 05:39 pm, 10th January 2019“Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.” G. Orwell.
Free Speech Forum
Posted at 05:02 am, 20th February 2019You know the US is bad when Americans say that they feel like they have more freedom in
Communist countries like Vietnam.
Julian
Posted at 09:12 pm, 1st June 2020Caleb, have you seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKxLp_TV8VY
Personally, I think this will not be a civil war, it will be a massacre on a major level and worst of all, it will be completely one-sided.
What do you think will be the outcome of this mess? Will there actually be civil war?