One of the things right-wing conservatives point to as their final hope that America / Western civilization might be saved (which is literally and mathematically impossible) is the hope that “Generation Z is conservative.” See, those damn Millennials are the problem. They’re stupid and socialist. But Generation Z, ah, they’re as right-wing as Rush Limbaugh and Ronald Regan. They’ll take our country back!!!
Is this accurate, or just wishful thinking? As always, I will ignore all the emotions and rhetoric and look at what the facts can tell us.
The first problem we have is that there is no specific consensus on what “Generation Z” means, nor even what the term “Millennial” means. Generation Z is often described as those born from the mid-90’s to the mid 2000’s. But many times, this is the exact same age range used to describe “Millennials.” Go look at the Wikipedia definitions of those two generations and you’ll see exactly what I’m talking about.
This alone presents a huge problem when trying to define Generation Z as “conservative” or any other label. I read a lot of different articles on this topic, and damn near none of them agreed on the exact age range for a “Generation Z” person.
Speaking of those articles, listed below are the sources most articles use as evidence that “Generation Z is conservative.” Let’s analyze.
1. The most common source citied is a UK survey of 2,000 adults in which Generation Z self identified as “conservative” or “moderate” on a number of social issues. The first problem, again, is that the survey clearly surveys adults, which means people age 18 or over. That leaves out tons of people in Generation Z, who are mostly born after the year 2000, so immediately we have a problem.
The second problem is that the survey simply reports how people self-identify. It does not report on specific policy issues. There is a huge difference between:
“Do you consider yourself progressive, moderate, or conservative on the issue of health care?”
Versus:
“Should the government provide free health care to its citizens?”
Literally millions of people would answer “conservative” or “moderate” to the first question while answering “yes” the second one. Surveys, polls, and election results have shown for years that self-identification is complete and utter bullshit. You have to ask specific policy questions to accurately identify a person’s political leanings.
Lastly, the survey is given online, which violates most principles for public polling and sample selection criteria. You can read an analysis of this problematic survey here.
2. There is data to suggest that Generation Z teenagers drink less alcohol than Millennial teenagers. Yes, teenagers across the board are boozing less, doing less drugs, having less babies (though women in their early 20’s are having more), and doing less stupid things. This is an overall trend from the last several decades that has nothing to do with right or left. Overall crime rates have gone down in the last several decades, yet in that same time, America has radically shifted to the left, not the right. Conservatism has literally nothing to do with it.
3. There is data to suggest that Generation Z is saving money for retirement sooner than Millienals, and are more frightened of debt. Again, this has nothing to do with left or right; see what I just said above.
4. There is data to suggest that Generation Z dislikes tattoos and piercings. Again, what the fuck does this have to do with politics? Pretty much all of the most extreme left-wingers I know and have seen on TV and the internet have no tats or piercings, and I know a lot of jacked bodybuilder dudes covered in tats who are extreme right-wingers.
5. A survey of 5000 teenagers showed that more of them would have voted for Trump than Hillary. Finally, we have one source out of all of these that actually indicates political leanings instead of people hoping or guessing. Trump beat Hillary, 34% to 20%. Three issues with this:
A. As I spent pretty much all of 2016 explaining, the Hillary vs. Trump election was an anomaly in US history. You had a child running against a monster, so of course the child won, but not because people wanted a child running the country; it was because people feared the monster. Preferring Trump over Hillary does not make anyone a conservative, (particularly since Trump himself is not a conservative).
B. These same teenagers gave Obama a 41% approval rating with just a 25% disapproval rating. Would a “conservative” group of kids give Obama, one of the worst presidents in US history, only a 25% disapproval rating?
C. Hillary still kicked Trump’s ass with the black, Asian, and Latino teenagers, with triple to five times the vote. It was only the white teenagers who preferred Trump. Again, explain to me how this is “conservative?” Particularly since whites are the only declining race in the USA.
6. There is data to suggest that Generation Z goes to church at double the rates of Millennials. This does indeed suggest a right-wing leaning. The next question we need to ask is how many people in the typical, modern-day American church actually support small government, low taxes, free markets, little or no welfare state, and very low regulation, to the point where they will refuse to vote for politicians who may be against these things. You and I both know the answer: these people are not as left-wing as progressives, but they’re still left-wing. Remember, it was American “conservatives” who gave us George W. Bush, the biggest big-government president in American history. As always, Republicans love big government.
7. In the last presidential election, the youth vote dropped nationally from 60 percent to 55 percent. Yes, read above what I said about people not wanting to vote for a monster (or a child). This does not indicate right-wing political values.
Generation Z is not conservative. That’s just right-wing hype. They are, and will continue to be, yet another left-wing generation like the Millennials before them, Gen X before them, and the Baby Boomers before them. It’s likely they won’t be as left-wing as the Millennials; Gen Z won’t be quite as orgasmic over socialists like Bernie Sanders, but they will vote for left-wing politicians in droves just like Americans have for several decades now. There is no data whatsoever that shows what I just said is untrue.
America will continue to move to the political left. There is nothing you can do about it. As always, focus instead on yourself and your loved ones, and enjoy the decline!
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.
Man, you’re cranking out awesome unique content all the time!
This differentiation between self-identification and specific political issues is a very good point.
You’re pointing out an example of economic political leanings which shows that right-wingers are often times very left-wing when it comes to economics and especially extreme right-wingers like the Nazis which we all know stands for National-Socialists.
Let me add an example of this dissonance in the realm of societal politics: if you ask right-wingers who want to have less sexual freedom in society if they would personally restrict their sexuality as well, they will say no (or if they say yes, they’re lying). The best example for this is the manosphere. They want to suppress female sexuality and go back to a frigid society while simultaneously want to learn how to get laid, haha!
On a side note. I have posted a thread in the Alpha 2.0 community about starting a small business mastermind group to help and support each other while starting our own location independent Alpha 2.0 businesses. Since the community has less reach than this blog I’m posting it here in the comment section. I hope this is okay. Thanks, Caleb.
I have much more limited hopes for GenZ: that while still having a ton of left wing SP, they’ll be a bit more immune to the more extreme anti-man, anti-white and anti-straight absurdities. Strangely enough, it’s possible that internet memes and GenZ being much more ‘innately’ hyperconnected probably play a role in defusing the more obvious BS of this type.
I can tolerate a world where the big problem is high taxes or that legal marriage is dangerous for men – and I might just pick a less bad country – , but one where the extreme stuff above is orthodoxy, I might just get a cabin in the woods and be done with it.
I know CJ thinks this latter problem is actually tiny and relatively inconsequential, but I lean more toward Joelsuf’s and JOTB’s position that that shit is a real threat. If GenZ doesn’t buy it – and it’s not guaranteed, I’m just saying there’s hope that it doesn’t – then CJ will turn out to be de facto correct on it, and all the better.
Exactly.
Slightly less horrible is still horrible. That’s a very weak hope you have there.
It’s fine as long as you aren’t charging money for it; that’s exactly what the community is for.
Not even Limbaugh or Reagan were conservative: They were STILL for big government. Any hope of any REAL conservative economic philosophies straight up DIED after The New Deal. MANY choose to forget this. The second the US stepped in to World War II was the moment where Libertarian philosophies were seen as political heresy. They still are seen as political heresy now. If Arvin Vohra were to run in any significant election he would have things thrown at him. One of my favorite libertarians, Aria DiMezzo, gets constant death threats for being trans AND an Anarcho Capitalist…from LGBTs who hate her because she isn’t nuthugging Sanders and from AnCaps who hate all things LGBT. People laughed at Ross Perot in 1992 and at Ron Paul in 2012.
Libertarian philosophies have been vilified for at least 6 decades now. This is stuff I’ve been talking about for nearly 20 years when I first started discovering Anarcho Capitalist and Libertarian philosophies.
Well I have since back pedaled on that observation somewhat. Its not going to be a threat now, but it will become a threat in the very distant future (we’re talking like 2040s). The west leaning left will be an inconvenience going into the 2020s for hetero white men, that much is certain. But I believe in accept, adapt and adjust.
So if we are on the verge of entering a society where if I make too much money I’ll be punished for it, and will have to physically ask chicks if they want to have sex with me before we have sex (something which I joke about with chicks tbh), I’ll just accept it and adapt to it. I’ll try it for a bit and If I do not like it, I’ll adjust, and by adjusting I mean moving to a place where I can make money without too much consequence and where I can see if chicks want to have sex with me just by reading their body language.
This is what Caleb means by internal solutions. The problem with every generation past the Civic Generation is that they have become fixated on external solutions, which is not a conservative philosophy. And THAT is why Gen Z is not conservative; they still are obsessed with saving the world, which has become the US and the West’s official religion.
There indeed will come a time (like I said, the 2040s probably) where if you choose not to take external solutions, you will be hunted down like a heretic in 1500s Spain. I have called this “The Collectivist Inquisition.”
On some issues, such as gay marriage, welfare, universal health care, the public opinion has been consistently shifting towards a left-wing position, and it doesn’t look like the trend will be reversed any time soon.
But on other issues, such as immigration, the right-wing position is actually becoming more popular, so it is not like the west is inevitably leaning towards the left.
History is cyclical. The left takes power, then people become dissatisfied with the current situation, then they vote for the right, Then the right then takes power, people become dissatisfied again, then they lean left again, and so on. It has always been like that.
Where is your empirical evidence that supports this?
(Last time I checked, Merkel was just re-elected, as just one example.)
Yes, but when you say “history,” we’re talking decades, if not a hundred years or more. By the time people in the Western world actually start moving back to the right for real, it will be decades from now. At that time, the USA as you know it will already be gone, and/or it won’t be an issue anymore because of technological advancements. At that time, we’ll be wrestling with the issue of humanity itself, not right or left politics.
At that time, we’ll be wrestling with the issue of humanity itself, not right or left politics.
Woah, what is your vision for this future? Just curious.
We will have to wrestle with the concept of what is human. Is a robot that looks, acts, and feels identical to a human, a human? What about a human whose body is 90% robotic/technological? Is that a human? What about an AI that is as smart as people and feels feelings the same way? Is that human? And so on. Everything will change, and the left/right argument was we understand it today will no longer be relevant.
Caleb, what is your take on the uproar over which city will host Amazon’s next corporate campus? I was sorta rooting for mine since, honestly, we could use the boost to our economy. But what of the principal behind it? I know competition is good, but considering this is a giant, monopolistic corporation we’re talking about, I’m not so sure it’s a good thing to have major cities competing for its favor. Am I just being too cynical?
I humbly disagree based upon the data that I read. Generation Z are of an entrpeneurial group(fiscally conservative usually). Also they tend to be socially liberal. So I’d say neither liberal or conservative. Middle ground.
Source: https://www.visioncritical.com/generation-z-infographics/
Also don’t forget many social factors in the future that can impact life views: War, Famine, Disease, or even Technology
I highly recommend the original Ghost in the Shell anime adaptation and the sequel Ghost in the Shell: Innocence which both explore this in great length in very good way.
By the way on the topic of West being more and more left I see it is a short term trend that will at some point end abruptly. This is because the left (by its current meaning, not the original meaning) is self destructing. Just look at the kind of people who vote for them or who they openly endorse: they are groups that absolutely hate each other. Furthermore it seems their objective is to take down the West which if achieved will result in China taking an absolute worldwide dominance – they already know this and have taken steps to prepare for the transition. But China these days is, by current Western standards, an ultra rightwing country (they send troops to suppress minorities just to prove a point, if you try to immigrate illegally you are shot on the border, they are super capitalist, no free healthcare, no benefits, they are imperialistic in other countries, dont give a shit about environment or workers rights). The left wing silicon valley companies who like to impose their extreme views on both employees and users (Google, Facebook) are already banned in China. Its Hilarious. But the bottom line is that no matter what happens the left cannot survive, either they fail and get voted out and put in jail/deported, or they succeed and world becomes super right wing under Chinese rule.
The guy who wants to build a wall between US and Mexico got elected president.
The right is getting stronger in other european countries, such as Poland and Hungary, and even Merkel is getting a lot of critizism about the refugee situation. Many of them are being sent back now.
I wonder if the concept of a robot that can have feelings is even possible.
How could you even prove that a robot has feeling?
Heck, it is not even possible to prove that other humans have qualia. As far as I know, I could be the only entity with qualia in the world, and you all could be a bunch of philosophical zombies 😉
Not the best example. The democrats were in favour of this before they were against it. Clinton voted in favor of this years ago, look it up.
I’m not discussing robots in this thread.
Nope. More people voted for Hillary, AND only 26% of the population voted for Trump,
AND and 48% of that 26% had an unfavorable view of him.
That means only about 13% of Americans voted for Trump because they liked him. 13% dude. That doesn’t indicate any major right-wing move on immigration whatsoever in the USA.
That is true, right-wing political parties, though still in the minority, are growing somewhat in some European countries. That doesn’t indicate any major right-wing move on immigration in the Western world, just a little blowback from the rapes and such, which is understandable.
Again, this right-wing groundswell against immigration in the West like you’re saying just isn’t happening.
#6 is the most distressing to me. Religion is the most powerful force of irrationality in the US, so an increase in religiosity will see an increase in irrationality in all areas. Of course humans are inherently irrational, so no amount of non-religion will make us a society of Spock’s, but it would help make us a bit more rational.
What I think you fail to acknowledge is that many of the protesters on liberal college campuses for SJWs do fall into thd gen z category. Those kids that held Evergreen hostage last year were born around 98 or 99. Most of the news on safe spaces or student riots is rather recent, not something from 10 years ago. Also, much of the alt-right base is made up of a lot of older millenials as well. If all millenials were super PC, shows like south park wouldnt be on the air. I think there will always be a left and right base in any age group. What Im worried about with younger generations is getting caught up in extremes and niche ideologies, due to how we interact with the internet. Im also afraid nuanced thinking will be lost in all the memes.
I cannot relate with the “monster” assertion of Hillary Clinton, she was no worse than any other politician. I think this “lesser of two evils” argument is really something that was promoted by Russian interference more than anything else. No, she was no Sanders – or Obama – or even Reagan. But she was no Trump or Nixon, either.
But I think you’re on to something with young voters and Trump. Trump was especially popular with white teenage boys. It makes sense why Trump wouldn’t be popular with minorities or women and girls. But Trump did seem to speak with young boys.
I think your analysis of Trump being a “child” is accurate, and I think this is what explains his popularity with young boys – he is relateable. A lot of teenage boys have a lot of learning to do about how the world works, the value of people – especially girls and women – and what it means to be a responsible member of society. For a lot of teenage boys, being able to “grab pussy” whenever he felt like it would be pretty cool, and having a leader who jocks around with that desire – and even claims that he can – would be something teenage boys can relate with and even admire.
Heck, I think most people, men and women, wouldn’t mind having infinite sexual desirability to the extent that Trump seems to think he has, and anyone of our choosing would be enthusiastically willing be fondled. That’d be pretty great.
But the reality is that nobody is what Trump makes himself out to be. For most adults, anyone who claims to such sexual entitlement is, and must be, a sexual predator. As adults we realize that nobody is entitled to touch another person in any way.
Adults realize you can’t just spout off every crazy belief you might have at any given moment, that words have power. But for teenage boys, they’re still figuring all that stuff out. So I can see how, for a teenager that thinks he knows everything and has it all figured out, Trump represents and validates all that stuff they haven’t figured out – but thinks he has.
It’s done BEEN lost, for decades now. There is no such thing as nuanced thinking anymore, even offline. Now its all like “_____ doesn’t work! ____ is the solution! If you don’t agree then you’re the enemy!”
Been like this for awhile. Collectivism has been the world’s official religion for a VERY long time.
Hell if the internet existed half a century ago, could you imagine how bad things would have gotten? There would be legit wars among people. Oh wait, there WERE wars among people back then, without mass communication.
Generation Z is quite young. There are some that are conservative because they are following a trend. Thing is when they will have to get a job and support themselves they will become more left wing.
I mean no offense, but your information is riddled with problems. First, traiditonally Christian people are more conservative. So, yes that does imply political leanings.
In addition, all the reasons listed in the following article:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2017/08/11/why-democrats-should-be-losing-sleep-over-generation-z/#2831a7d27878
There is plenty of evidence to suggest that while some have some social liberal leanings they are on the whole more fiscally conservative which fits in far more with conservatives. Which fits with changes within even the mellinial generation of conservatives like myself.
For example, I am pro choice, but personally pro life. I am pro gay marriage. I have no problem with LGBTQ or any minority rights so long as they do not errode the personal rights of the majority. (AKA all the lets not discriminate against white people for being “privilliged” bs.) And while I have the compassion and desire to help people, I do not believe that giving them social benefits accomplishes any of that. My point is that these social habits that are traditionally considered democrat are not necessarily so. The proof is in how you address it. Which I could write an entire post on.
However, I think it is a wish and a prayer to assume that they will be liberal any more than to assume the majority of them will be conservative. The proof seems to indicate that they will be MORE conservative to some degree or another. Which will make them even more likely to become conservative as time goes on…and eventually my contemporaries in the mellinial camp will realize that money won’t solve their problems and become conservative…beacuse that is what tends to happen as people get older. Many boomers were liberal in their youth and now far more of them are conservative.
I guess my overaching point is that your feelings don’t seem to coincide with the facts. You make many good arguments. And sure, they may not be as conservative as the right is hopeing, but they will likely be more conservative than my generation…and far more excited to vote…which regardless of what they believe is a good thing.
Nope. More people voted for Hillary, AND only 26% of the population voted for Trump,AND and 48% of that 26% had an unfavorable view of him.
That means only about 13% of Americans voted for Trump because they liked him. 13% dude. That doesn’t indicate any major right-wing move on immigration whatsoever in the USA.
The quotes above are not true. More people voted for Hillary by an extremey small margin it was actually like 2.9 million a whopping 2 percent. ANd the reasons we don’t go by popular vote is so that it is representative of most of the regions of the country….not just the places with the most people. It would horrible if the rest of us were subjected to a president we hated because a handful of states in certain areas of the country have more people (California, NY, and possibly Florida. or all the states that have the most house representatives as well). The founders established the rule so that no one or two states would have more say than the rest.
Which makes the percentage of people who had an unfavorable view of him significantly higher than your estimated number. In addition, Hillary had quite the same issue. She was not found very favorably in her party either.
In addition there was the travesty that was her campaign….which showed that the candidate who won the primary would still loose to the corrupt candidate that had more money. Which caused a good deal of his supporters to vote trump….like myself….this last election actually caused me to walk away from the democratic party….because of all the lies. Because of the vast amount of corruption. And because when we finally do have a women president I want it to be someone I can be proud of…and Hillary was far from that.
So….no…none of that is true.
The response though is to the argument that because more young people go to church and are careful with their money that makes them politically conservative. The implication is that liberals are a bunch of spend-happy heathens that smoke pot all day.
The evidence is very clear that ideologically they differ from the neo-conservative movement, and the more one looks into the past, post-Southern Strategy conservatives are much more in line with 21st century conservatism than not, in particular on social issues, which is where many young people differ – and yet, since the Southern Strategy conservatives have made to forefront – crying over government overreach but then telling Americans who they can marry and what they can smoke.
It seems clear to me that if the GOP cannot reform itself there is very limited future for the party. The party is simply incompatible with 21st century ideals. Either the GOP will need to get out of this moral nanny-state business that has plagued the party since the 1970s, else more fiscally-oriented left-leaning moderates will fill the gap that these sensible gen-z kids seem to value.
Rather, I think a more accurate analysis is that gen-z are just good kids. This certainly isn’t a statement of their political affiliation.
Not all gen-z’ers are “good kids”. These children are lost in the entertainment and have looked to role models on YouTube such as “Kellie Maple” and other gen Y’ers that are corrupting their minds. This generation is around age 8 and up. They can’t even play. They have to be forced to watch other children and gen Y’ers play via YouTube. They’ve destroyed their imagination. What we have is yet another generation of snowflakes that haven’t been taught to do much. They lack skills and are too lazy to even want to learn anything. That is, unless it involves computers and electronics. And finally, you’re right. They’re not conservative. They use, abuse, and destroy just like the generations before them, and even worse. These kids have grown up with the waste basket, and thinking everything is replaceable and should be bought yearly and updated just like their smartphones, computers, and electronics. They will purposely do everything opposite of anything good and conservative you ask. Still waiting on that Next generation. Gen Z is the lost, the ones left behind. They’re the ones growing up with a failed and corrupted education system. Little education, and little hope for a future. Not even a childhood. That too has been wasted on YouTube and computer games. This is why they’re all emotional wrecks and so reclusive. Too many behavior issues to count. Everyone I know that has a child in this age group, they’re just reclusive. They don’t want to be around anyone. They cry and whine about being outside. Computers/electronics have removed them from human contact and nature. You have to be in contact with people, and learn a respect and love for nature, fellow humans, and animals before you can conserve, protect, and fix the problems in our world and environment. Gen-Z has been removed from their world and reality. Communication skills are lacking, comprehension is lacking, fine motor skills are lacking. You can not wait until after a child is grown to try and teach them important skills for life. And our country expects these kids to become the workforce? Computers are destroying us. Children should be our hope for the future. But as of today, I only see a political game, the want of world leadership that will destroy our America, and population control.
This is just a “kids these days” tyrade: the same line that was said going back to antiquity, practically unchanged since Socrates.
Not really worth reading, let alone a reply.
sk says
Not really worth reading, let alone a reply.
you just did